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View Full Version : What I'd love for DX4 (bear with me).



Pretentious Old Man.
25th Sep 2010, 13:15
Replaying Deus-Ex (for the umpteenth time), something that I thought long before DX3 was announced has re-struck me: just how much of the anti-MJ12 work was done by Paul pre JC even coming out of the academy.

Is there anyone else who would love to have a Deus Ex game with Paul as the main protaganist, set from his training at the UNATCO academy through to his failed missions at the start of DX1? Paul is just such an excellent character all told, and I would absolutely *love* to go through his realisation that all was not as it should be at UNATCO. I want to have the apartment in Hell's Kitchen as a kind of hub, globetrotting to HK and so forth, just as Paul did. Sad person that I am, I even compiled a list of missions that we KNOW Paul was sent on. There should be just as much gameplay as DX1 in there, especially in Hong Kong with Jock ("FLYBOY"), and Tracer Tong. It could also be a great game mechanic TRYING to fail for the good of the NSF.

In fact, if I'd had my way, that would have been what DX3 would have been about. Oh well. I'd love a navy-blue/silver aesthetic too. All of the above would make my day.

What would you like to see, if the DX reboot leads to more games?

lithos
25th Sep 2010, 13:18
That's a great idea - though I think there was also mod out that dealt with Paul's handling (or "mishandling" I suppose,) of the Triad assassinations.

I'm not sure if I'd like to see Paul "rebooted" for this Brave New Industry™.

Pretentious Old Man.
25th Sep 2010, 13:28
=
I'm not sure if I'd like to see Paul "rebooted" for this Brave New Industryâ„¢.

Neither would I. Do I even need to say that I don't want to see Paul's memory desecrated with third person takedowns or the like? :)

This was just an "ideal world" thing.

lithos
25th Sep 2010, 13:33
Sorry for spoiling your Utopian vision, mate.

Pretentious Old Man.
25th Sep 2010, 13:34
Sorry for spoiling your Utopian vision, mate.

Nah, you merely accelerated the growing up process.

Bluey71
25th Sep 2010, 13:40
Is there anyone else who would love to have a Deus Ex game with Paul as the main protaganist, set from his training at the UNATCO academy through to his failed missions at the start of DX1? Paul is just such an excellent character all told, and I would absolutely *love* to go through his realisation that all was not as it should be at UNATCO. I want to have the apartment in Hell's Kitchen as a kind of hub, globetrotting to HK and so forth, just as Paul did. Sad person that I am, I even compiled a list of missions that we KNOW Paul was sent on. There should be just as much gameplay as DX1 in there, especially in Hong Kong with Jock ("FLYBOY"), and Tracer Tong. It could also be a great game mechanic TRYING to fail for the good of the NSF.

I like the idea. I don't think WS has given away much about his ideas on stories for further games hes he? Maybe a prequel would have been in the running.

AlexOfSpades
25th Sep 2010, 13:43
Paul's game?

But.. but.. what about my... gunther hermann game?

Pretentious Old Man.
25th Sep 2010, 13:45
Paul's game?

But.. but.. what about my... gunther hermann game?

Why not make Gunther Hermann, Paul Denton, and Anna Navarre all have their own PROPER DLC Expansion? That would be proper DLC, a la Mass Effect 2.

NKD
25th Sep 2010, 13:51
Honestly I think Paul and JC's story was told just fine in the first game. The problem with a prequel that doesn't jump back very far is that you know generally what's going to happen. In fact it'd be a lot like the first DX. Graduate, do your job for a bit, get tipped off to the conspiracy and play along for a short time, then go over to the other side openly. All the major players would be the same as in DX1 too.

The overlap just might get to be too much.

As far as what I'd want to see in a DX4, well I'll have to see what DXHR brings us first, for the most part. But I would like them to delete Invisible War from existence and give us a real sequel.

Also, what's this reboot stuff? I've seen several people now call the game a "reboot." Haven't they said this game takes place in the same timeline as the original game, with respect to the continuity and backstory of it?

Bluey71
25th Sep 2010, 13:54
DLC for a game like DX1 would have kept the community going for years. The DLC's themselves would add content for the modding community to play with, which in turn would give us even more new stuff.

Facebyface
25th Sep 2010, 14:00
The DLC's themselves would add content for the modding community to play with, which in turn would give us even more new stuff.

Oh god yes!

As a game idea it's not inherently bad, but it would have to follow a linear story. Certain people can't die, certain places remain intact, and certain things you can't actually figure out. Wouldn't be Deus Ex entirely when you've shortened the avenues so quickly just in concept.

Pretentious Old Man.
25th Sep 2010, 14:03
I think CD based expansion packs might have been more appropriate than DLC in 2000, but I certainly agree with the general gist. Modding tools would also have been nice (hint, hint, EM)

Ilves
25th Sep 2010, 14:05
The problem is though, in DX Paul (as JC's older brother, more experienced agent, more knowledgeable about the conspiracy) functioned as JC's moral lighthouse. He was a brilliant character in that sense, but I don't know if he'd hold up being the main character. But I'd definitely sign up for the idea. :thumb:

Pretentious Old Man.
25th Sep 2010, 14:07
The problem is though, in DX Paul (as JC's older brother, more experienced agent, more knowledgeable about the conspiracy) functioned as JC's moral lighthouse. He was a brilliant character in that sense, but I don't know if he'd hold up being the main character. But I'd definitely sign up for the idea. :thumb:

Would you mind elaborating further on why you think he might not work as a main character? IMHO, he's actually much more defined than JC as a character.

Also, we know he has a girlfriend. This could prove fun.

JCpies
25th Sep 2010, 14:12
I can just imagine the alleyway outside of Paul's appartment with DX3 textures in 1080p. Tears are welling up in my eyes.

NKD
25th Sep 2010, 14:14
I can just imagine the alleyway outside of Paul's appartment with DX3 textures in 1080p. Tears are welling up in my eyes.

Stay outta the 'ton bro. Bad **** goin' down.


Would you mind elaborating further on why you think he might not work as a main character? IMHO, he's actually much more defined than JC as a character.

That might be a drawback in itself. JC was kind of a blank slate. Paul on the other hand, we already know the kind of guy he is. That sort of limits what they could let him do in a Paul game.

Pretentious Old Man.
25th Sep 2010, 14:16
That might be a drawback in itself. JC was kind of a blank slate. Paul on the other hand, we already know the kind of guy he is. That sort of limits what they could let him do in a Paul game.

There's room for both types. Adam Jensen, for example, is not exactly Gordon Freeman, is he? He has a pretty defined past, and a fairly defined character.

avenging_teabag
25th Sep 2010, 14:24
I don't know if a game featuring Paul would be such a good idea. That story ended, we all know how. I know Paul's fate, I'm not sure I'd like an entire game dedicated to him arriving from point A to point B.

What I *would* like, is a direct sequel to DE based on Tong's ending. Could be a splendid mix of DE and Fallout, really letting the player feel the scope of the collapse: people gathering in enclaves, rabid military, self-sustaining corporations leeching off the rest of resources, researchers in abandoned labs frantic to finish whatever projects they started before the total blackout, mad computer systems, Helios that would, of course, survive and hide itself away somewhere, and Our Hero (tm) with the Dragon's Tooth trying to make heads or tails of the chaos that he'd created.

I think that would rock.

Fluffis
25th Sep 2010, 14:29
I freakin' love this idea.

NKD
25th Sep 2010, 14:36
There's room for both types. Adam Jensen, for example, is not exactly Gordon Freeman, is he? He has a pretty defined past, and a fairly defined character.

I don't know anything about him except he was a security specialist and some girl got kidnapped, and he got augmentations. We don't know his attitude or how he approaches a mission, because that will be up to us. But I know a heck of a lot more about Paul. He's the kind of guy who will give you tear gas and prod chargers when the enemy is throwing live ammo at you.

JCpies
25th Sep 2010, 14:42
I don't know if a game featuring Paul would be such a good idea. That story ended, we all know how. I know Paul's fate, I'm not sure I'd like an entire game dedicated to him arriving from point A to point B.

What I *would* like, is a direct sequel to DE based on Tong's ending. Could be a splendid mix of DE and Fallout, really letting the player feel the scope of the collapse: people gathering in enclaves, rabid military, self-sustaining corporations leeching off the rest of resources, researchers in abandoned labs frantic to finish whatever projects they started before the total blackout, mad computer systems, Helios that would, of course, survive and hide itself away somewhere, and Our Hero (tm) with the Dragon's Tooth trying to make heads or tails of the chaos that he'd created.

I think that would rock.

I actually planneed to create a mod for that sequel. I'm not a modder though, I've done a bit of level creating and stuff. One day. I will make that mod.

avenging_teabag
25th Sep 2010, 14:44
^ Well, let us know when it's ready.

Facebyface
25th Sep 2010, 14:46
One day. I will make that mod.

I keep reciting this to myself whenever I work on my maps for the mod Im creating >> The people must know if the long fabled SDK does exist!

JCpies
25th Sep 2010, 14:48
^ Well, let us know when it's ready.

Deus Ex The Sequel. Coming 2018.

NKD
25th Sep 2010, 14:50
Deus Ex The Sequel. Coming 2018.

Deus Ex mods have Duke Nukem Forever style dev cycles.

Ilves
25th Sep 2010, 16:47
Would you mind elaborating further on why you think he might not work as a main character? IMHO, he's actually much more defined than JC as a character.
---

That might be a drawback in itself. JC was kind of a blank slate. Paul on the other hand, we already know the kind of guy he is. That sort of limits what they could let him do in a Paul game.


He's the kind of guy who will give you tear gas and prod chargers when the enemy is throwing live ammo at you.

There you sort of have it.

Paul was a great character in relation to JC. Have perspective shift to Paul and you lose much of his charm, imo. Not to mention, how to reconcile Paul's upright demeanor with the freedom of choice to play whichever way you want?

Mindmute
25th Sep 2010, 16:49
He's the kind of guy who will give you tear gas and prod chargers when the enemy is throwing live ammo at you.

Keep in mind that, for Paul, the NSF weren't really the enemy. It's makes sense that he'd try to minimise casualties on the only side that he could influence directly, it's more of a tactical decision than him being a softy.

WildcatPhoenix
25th Sep 2010, 17:35
Well, my team (currently consisting of 3 people) is still hard at work on the "Man in Black" mod. Alas, no, it is not a mod about Johnny Cash.

We were inspired by mods like Opposing Force for the first Half-Life. In MIB you play as a nano-augmented MIB agent working for Majestic 12. It takes place one month after the events of the first game (I won't spoil which ending we chose to go with...although I will say it's a modified version of one of the original three).

I agree with the sentiment that prequels just carry too much baggage, although I do love Paul as a character. I think you just write yourself into too many corners by telling a story where the ending is a foregone conclusion. The only way to do it successfully, in my opinion, is to continue the storyline while concurrently showing flashbacks (ala The Godfather II).

Dead-Eye
25th Sep 2010, 19:56
Would you mind elaborating further on why you think he might not work as a main character? IMHO, he's actually much more defined than JC as a character.
I'm just going to take a guess, but it might have something to do with Paul being a good guy and JC being whatever you want him to be. If you play as Paul doing anything evil would be out of character.


I don't know if a game featuring Paul would be such a good idea. That story ended, we all know how. I know Paul's fate, I'm not sure I'd like an entire game dedicated to him arriving from point A to point B.
What do you mean we know Paul's fate? Forgetting about Invisible War there is a whole world of possablites with Paul as the main character.


Keep in mind that, for Paul, the NSF weren't really the enemy. It's makes sense that he'd try to minimise casualties on the only side that he could influence directly, it's more of a tactical decision than him being a softy.
It's been stated that Paul is an outgoing charismatic character that's always trying to do the right thing. On top of that him fighting for the NSF sort of shows where his morals are placed.

The only way I could see this working is if the devs didn't allow the player to make good and evil choices but rather gave the player objectives that if failed might be considered evil and Paul would act as if they where accidents. Leading to ether a heroic Paul or a deeply unstable Paul that's possessed by demons or something.

OwlSolar
26th Sep 2010, 06:52
For my part, I would love to go on killing sprees as Paul.

Pinky_Powers
26th Sep 2010, 07:16
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There you sort of have it.

Paul was a great character in relation to JC. Have perspective shift to Paul and you lose much of his charm, imo. Not to mention, how to reconcile Paul's upright demeanor with the freedom of choice to play whichever way you want?

^... this. And also, Paul's story could never be as big, or a world-changing as J.C.'s. It could have plenty of room for some interesting missions, but it'd never quite be Deus Ex.

If they were smell DLC compilations, then it would have some real potential. But no a full game.

avenging_teabag
26th Sep 2010, 08:13
What do you mean we know Paul's fate? Forgetting about Invisible War there is a whole world of possablites with Paul as the main character.

I phrazed it poorly. I meant that we know his fate within the timeline Old Man proposed. After that, there's a lot of possibilities, of course.

St. Mellow
26th Sep 2010, 20:31
Nice to dream, innit? Love the ideas in this thread. Sorry if I'm a pessimist. But I very much agree with lithos.

Mindmute
26th Sep 2010, 20:44
There's also room for some artistic liberty in a game using Paul however:

All the game'd have to respect is one canonic ending/gameplay method that leads to the outgoing and friendly Paul we know from DX.

That being said, there could be several other non-canonical endings or paths throughout the game that'd lead to several different types of Pauls. That'd still allow for players to play as they'd like to play, as long any other games/media around the subject'd treat our Paul as the canon one.

dtgreen
5th Oct 2010, 12:27
The OP has a brilliant idea. I'm on another play-through myself at the moment, just on the way to send the NSF distress signal after chatting with Paul. For me, that would be the perfect prequel, playing as Paul as he gradually learns more and more and eventually decides to switch. I always wanted to know where Paul went when the Ambrosia recovery mission went wrong and he went AWOL.

Sounds stupid, but if it were ever made, I would want it made using the exact same tools and technologies that the first was made with. I couldn't handle the OP's story idea if it looked totally different.

Dead-Eye
5th Oct 2010, 20:21
I would want it made using the exact same tools and technologies that the first was made with.
HA HA HA HA HA. :lol::lol::lol::lol::lol::lol::lol::lol::lol:
I used the SDK, it's a horrid peace of technology.