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jcd3nt0n
20th Sep 2010, 20:39
I'm afraid of some things in this new Deus Ex game. The trailers showed much:
http://img269.imageshack.us/img269/9751/fear3z.th.jpg (http://img269.imageshack.us/i/fear3z.jpg/)http://img375.imageshack.us/img375/645/fear4.th.jpg (http://img375.imageshack.us/i/fear4.jpg/)http://img27.imageshack.us/img27/175/fear5.th.jpg (http://img27.imageshack.us/i/fear5.jpg/)

and showed little:
http://img716.imageshack.us/img716/6374/fear1.th.jpg (http://img716.imageshack.us/i/fear1.jpg/)http://img214.imageshack.us/img214/7756/fear2c.th.jpg (http://img214.imageshack.us/i/fear2c.jpg/)
So much killing and action and few espionage / talk / stealth / unconscious enemies. I'm afraid that will not be possible to play this game like Deus Ex 1.:(

Happy
20th Sep 2010, 20:53
Wait till the game is released before you "fear"

Corpus
20th Sep 2010, 20:59
Don't judge the whole game off one single pre-alpha presentation.

killfish
20th Sep 2010, 21:05
http://imgur.com/GAKW4.png

Lady_Of_The_Vine
20th Sep 2010, 21:05
No passion so effectually robs the mind of all its powers of acting and reasoning as fear.

NKD
20th Sep 2010, 21:06
LOL.

"Nevermind that the developers have specifically told us that there are at least four ways to complete any given mission, this trailer showed some shootin' so I'm pretty sure that's all there is!"


http://i55.tinypic.com/x6fv37.png

That's what I thought this thread was going to be about. Man that chick still gives me the creeps. Maybe she can go play with the OP and they can go get some lollipops or something together.

luminar
20th Sep 2010, 21:14
Saying it will be multi path doesn't mean it will be.

Lady_Of_The_Vine
20th Sep 2010, 21:15
Saying it will be multi path doesn't mean it will be.
So, are you saying it won't be?

NKD
20th Sep 2010, 21:21
Saying it will be multi path doesn't mean it will be.

Yes. They are lying about the core aspect of the game. It's all just a trick. They are trying to trick you. It's one giant troll. That has to be it.

jcd3nt0n
20th Sep 2010, 21:23
With all you guys cheering me up and opening my eyes i'm not afraid anymore. Thanks! :group_hug:

luminar
20th Sep 2010, 21:23
Yes. They are lying about the core aspect of the game. It's all just a trick. They are trying to trick you. It's one giant troll. That has to be it.

Yes I had to be saying that, it totally wasn't me saying that they might fail at their intended goal.

Pinky_Powers
20th Sep 2010, 22:09
With all you guys cheering me up and opening my eyes i'm not afraid anymore. Thanks! :group_hug:

Think about it this way... you can play through the entire game without killing anyone but the Bosses. Does that sound like a game that is going to force you to be action-oriented?

Watch these videos (http://forums.eidosgames.com/showthread.php?t=113325), but do it with an eye towards "what would I have done?" "How would I play this?" And you'll see the system and level-design is there to allow you to find Your Deus Ex.

Unless your Deus Ex demands no third-person... then you're screwed. But if you can forgive it that, you're golden.

jcd3nt0n
20th Sep 2010, 22:25
I saw the videos! All my fears are gone! :cheek::friends::group_hug:

NKD
20th Sep 2010, 22:32
I saw the videos! All my fears are gone! :cheek::friends::group_hug:

Except for your fear of Alma of course. *shiver*

AlexOfSpades
20th Sep 2010, 22:34
http://i55.tinypic.com/x6fv37.png

Thought the same. ²

She's cute, i felt bad for her. Wanted to give her a little kiss.



A kiss with my VK12 Shotgun.

Dead-Eye
20th Sep 2010, 22:51
http://img27.imageshack.us/img27/175/fear5.th.jpg

Looking down iron sights is one of the few things they included that I actually like.

Pinky_Powers
20th Sep 2010, 22:58
I saw the videos! All my fears are gone! :cheek::friends::group_hug:

That could be a mistake too. ;)

The story could suck. The characters could be shallow stereotypes. The dialog could be so cheesy it makes you want to cut your wrists (there's already a little evidence that it might be). The hacking mini-game could be long, tedious and forced on you at every turn. The Social Combat could turn out to be a huge dud. The takedowns could get longer instead of shorter and who knows, you might be able to take out three guys with your bare hands.

There's still potential for disaster.

AlexOfSpades
20th Sep 2010, 23:24
That could be a mistake too. ;)

The story could suck. The characters could be shallow stereotypes. The dialog could be so cheesy it makes you want to cut your wrists (there's already a little evidence that it might be). The hacking mini-game could be long, tedious and forced on you at every turn. The Social Combat could turn out to be a huge dud. The takedowns could get longer instead of shorter and who knows, you might be able to take out three guys with your bare hands.

There's still potential for disaster.


I think i'll create a "Noooooo!" thread just like the one in the Thief 4 forums, after seeing this list.

Dead-Eye
20th Sep 2010, 23:29
I think i'll create a "Noooooo!" thread just like the one in the Thief 4 forums, after seeing this list.

http://www.nooooooooooooooo.com/

jcd3nt0n
20th Sep 2010, 23:53
That could be a mistake too. ;)

The story could suck. The characters could be shallow stereotypes. The dialog could be so cheesy it makes you want to cut your wrists (there's already a little evidence that it might be). The hacking mini-game could be long, tedious and forced on you at every turn. The Social Combat could turn out to be a huge dud. The takedowns could get longer instead of shorter and who knows, you might be able to take out three guys with your bare hands.

There's still potential for disaster.

No please, don't say that! :eek: http://www.nooooooooooooooo.com/

Pinky_Powers
21st Sep 2010, 01:31
No please, don't say that! :eek: http://www.nooooooooooooooo.com/

All of those were "could be's", "possibilities".

Personally, I have very high hopes for the game. But I have my share of fears that only more information can cure.

mad825
21st Sep 2010, 01:41
like I've said on many game forums:


I guess gamers are becoming nothing but dumb idiots now

don't expect any more out of today's games.

Blade_hunter
21st Sep 2010, 01:50
Looking down iron sights is one of the few things they included that I actually like.

Me too :thumb:

Actually, the social combat sounds to be the best thing in the package, the only thing that could make it really crap it's the dialogs or even being something with no real improvement over the linear system, we already know.
But second what I've heard it sounds more promising than a lot of elements shown/described in this game.

jjc
21st Sep 2010, 02:33
Looking down iron sights is one of the few things they included that I actually like.

What I like about the iron sights in the gameplay footage is that the guns look to have a lot of recoil. This is a possible opportunity for an aug to dampen the recoil. Regardless, one thing I loved about the first Brothers in Arms game is the realism in not always being able to hit a target you have perfectly lined up. This understandably frustrated a lot of players, but I felt it was a really daring choice that heightened the tension of the game.

Kodaemon
21st Sep 2010, 03:59
Actually, the social combat sounds to be the best thing in the package

Except we have seen nothing of it. One could describe the persuasion system of Oblivion and make it sound exciting: you can admire characters, boast about your deeds, coerce people, or make jokes! Watch the characters facial expression to know how they react!

Pinky_Powers
21st Sep 2010, 04:11
Except we have seen nothing of it. One could describe the persuasion system of Oblivion and make it sound exciting: you can admire characters, boast about your deeds, coerce people, or make jokes! Watch the characters facial expression to know how they react!

This is true. Except for the part about how we have "seen nothing of it." We have seen the Tong conversation... twice. But we know almost nothing about how it really works. So, it's hard to make heads or tails of it.

The Oblivion system was hideous. Not because of of the concept, but it's implementation. Plus, there was no real weight to it. If you failed... oh well. No discount at the shop. lol. If you fail in this game, it could seriously change how the mission progresses; as we've heard in the Detroit Police Station level.

It's success is entirely dependent how its implementation, and how well the animators do their jobs. :)

Irate_Iguana
21st Sep 2010, 07:52
Looking down iron sights is one of the few things they included that I actually like.

Front sight, rear sight and target are all in focus. :(

Pinky_Powers
21st Sep 2010, 08:54
Front sight, rear sight and target are all in focus. :(

I'm really hoping this is only due to incomplete rendering features. I can sacrifice certain graphics, but I love my post-effects; motion blur, depth of field, and other little wonders. They make a game's visuals feel real in a way high-res textures don't. ...lighting. Lighting is another important one for a natural feel to a game.

Of course, these graphical features have to be done well. Not all games do it right. But when they do...

http://i50.photobucket.com/albums/f310/Pinky_Powers/crysis642007-11-1518-35-20-10.jpg

http://i50.photobucket.com/albums/f310/Pinky_Powers/crysis642007-11-2117-40-53-13.jpg

Blade_hunter
21st Sep 2010, 12:38
I think the problem isn't the implementation, it's how it works.

VectorM
21st Sep 2010, 13:19
I'm afraid of some things in this new Deus Ex game. The trailers showed much:
http://img269.imageshack.us/img269/9751/fear3z.th.jpg (http://img269.imageshack.us/i/fear3z.jpg/)http://img375.imageshack.us/img375/645/fear4.th.jpg (http://img375.imageshack.us/i/fear4.jpg/)http://img27.imageshack.us/img27/175/fear5.th.jpg (http://img27.imageshack.us/i/fear5.jpg/)

and showed little:
http://img716.imageshack.us/img716/6374/fear1.th.jpg (http://img716.imageshack.us/i/fear1.jpg/)http://img214.imageshack.us/img214/7756/fear2c.th.jpg (http://img214.imageshack.us/i/fear2c.jpg/)
So much killing and action and few espionage / talk / stealth / unconscious enemies. I'm afraid that will not be possible to play this game like Deus Ex 1.:(

Nice to see that you fall for advertisements so easily :rolleyes: :rasp:

Seriously though, you can play it like this first one, sneaking and everything.


Saying it will be multi path doesn't mean it will be.

http://paganmedia.files.wordpress.com/2010/04/its-a-conspiracy.jpg

DON'T LISTEN TO THE DEVELOPER'S LIES MAN!

jcd3nt0n
21st Sep 2010, 15:57
Nice to see that you fall for advertisements so easily :rolleyes: :rasp:

Seriously though, you can play it like this first one, sneaking and everything.


I'm praying for that! :friends::group_hug:

Happy
22nd Sep 2010, 15:36
Think about it this way... you can play through the entire game without killing anyone but the Bosses.

Wait a minute - we have to do boss fights in this game?

NKD
22nd Sep 2010, 15:42
Wait a minute - we have to do boss fights in this game?

There will probably be alternate means of taking down or even avoiding "bosses" for people who don't aug for combat. I think I recall seeing an interview where they said something along those lines. That people who don't choose to beef up their gunfighting skills wouldn't be fubarred in boss fights.

I'm imagining something like in DX1 with regards to the boss fights there. Finding the killphrases, or avoiding the encounter and putting it off for another time.

Happy
22nd Sep 2010, 15:45
Phew - had me worried there for a moment - thanks!

K^2
22nd Sep 2010, 15:47
Nevermind that the developers have specifically told us that there are at least four ways to complete any given mission, this trailer showed some shootin' so I'm pretty sure that's all there is!
They said a lot of stuff.

NKD
22nd Sep 2010, 15:50
Phew - had me worried there for a moment - thanks!

Yeah it would definitely suck if it was something like Alpha Protocol where you can slam all your points into stealth and then get forced into a shootout. Or slam your points into guns, and then have a heck of a time doing anything requiring hacking or stealth.

Too many games that allow the stealthy hacker approach are very lop-sided. I.e. you can make up for a lack of sneakiness with copious gunfire almost 100% of the time. But if you go for the sneakiness, you're bound to run into some situation where your sneaking is nullified and your lacking combat skills are put to the test.

But neither of the previous DX games had a problem with this, so I think they'll keep that up.

AlexOfSpades
22nd Sep 2010, 17:08
Actually one thing that i loved in IW was that robot hacking thing.

I really used and overused it.

It did not only disabled any robot instantly, but also gave me full control of it for some nice time.

Man, when i captured those battle bots, those Templar received some serious robotic foot on the ass.

Blade_hunter
22nd Sep 2010, 20:19
There will probably be alternate means of taking down or even avoiding "bosses" for people who don't aug for combat. I think I recall seeing an interview where they said something along those lines. That people who don't choose to beef up their gunfighting skills wouldn't be fubarred in boss fights.

I'm imagining something like in DX1 with regards to the boss fights there. Finding the killphrases, or avoiding the encounter and putting it off for another time.

Certainly not, they pretty much said you have to fight, actually I have a source
http://www.siliconera.com/2010/07/06/one-of-deus-ex-human-revolutions-unseen-social-paths/
read the last paragraph

jtr7
22nd Sep 2010, 21:04
Yeah, bosses have to be killed, but I'm wondering what will replace kill-words.

Blade_hunter
22nd Sep 2010, 21:15
Nothing that can make you avoiding them.

IOOI
22nd Sep 2010, 21:32
They said a lot of stuff.

... and things like that.

singularity
22nd Sep 2010, 22:33
Yeah - I've always had the impression that the bosses in DXHR are going to be of the more "classic" variety -- you and them, locked in an enclosed area shooting it out... or at least "battling" in some regard.

I'm still optimistic about the game. Handful of design choices I don't fully agree with, but in the end it wasn't my game to make, and I think they could have done a lot worse. To be honest, I started out skeptical, and everything I have read and seen thus far has simply made me more optimistic. I'm still looking for people who have seen the game in action and have something negative to say about it, because nearly all of them are quite positive (minus some nitpicks about 3rd person takedowns being too jarring and taking too long) and assert that it is very similar to the first game. Still got a lot of time to polish this one, so you can count me stoked.

I'm also stoked for FEAR 3 -- looks like someone might actually get horror co-op right. I'm crossing my fingers :-)

pringlepower
23rd Sep 2010, 00:11
Yeah - I've always had the impression that the bosses in DXHR are going to be of the more "classic" variety -- you and them, locked in an enclosed area shooting it out... or at least "battling" in some regard.

I'm still optimistic about the game. Handful of design choices I don't fully agree with, but in the end it wasn't my game to make, and I think they could have done a lot worse. To be honest, I started out skeptical, and everything I have read and seen thus far has simply made me more optimistic. I'm still looking for people who have seen the game in action and have something negative to say about it, because nearly all of them are quite positive (minus some nitpicks about 3rd person takedowns being too jarring and taking too long) and assert that it is very similar to the first game. Still got a lot of time to polish this one, so you can count me stoked.

I'm also stoked for FEAR 3 -- looks like someone might actually get horror co-op right. I'm crossing my fingers :-)

As long as it isn't overdone it's okay. It's like a lesson you learn from adolescence: you can't run from all your problems. Eventually Anna will block your hallway or Simons will pop up at Area 51, or Jimmy Parker and his gang will finally corner you in a hallway and take your lunch money.

Well at long as FEAR is still scary. You know. A game called FEAR that isn't scary is... false advertising?

Mindmute
23rd Sep 2010, 00:17
As long as it isn't overdone it's okay. It's like a lesson you learn from adolescence: you can't run from all your problems. Eventually Anna will block your hallway or Simons will pop up at Area 51, or Jimmy Parker and his gang will finally corner you in a hallway and take your lunch money.


Still both of those had alternate ways of "approaching the situation" without requiring combat.. They were also "regular" characters rather than gimicky spot-and-exploit-the-weakness bosses.
Reserving judgement on that until I actually see it in action, but I wouldn't be surprised with disappointment.

pringlepower
23rd Sep 2010, 00:25
Still both of those had alternate ways of "approaching the situation" without requiring combat.. They were also "regular" characters rather than gimicky spot-and-exploit-the-weakness bosses.
Reserving judgement on that until I actually see it in action, but I wouldn't be surprised with disappointment.

True, and im remaining optimistic that DXHR will present various options of dealing with bosses (if the Boxguard counts as a boss, there are already several options for dealing with it). For now, in my blind optimisim I'll read "forced to kill the bosses" literally, just as you were forced to kill Gunther, Anna, Page, and Simons.

And having bosses be average Joes is a minus for me. They are bosses afterall. They should be stronger, have special attacks, etc. It was really disappointing for me to hear about Anna, Gunther, and Simons' augs and their combat prowess, just for them to shoot me like any other grunt, except with more HP. It'd be nice if they'd actually use the augs in some way, maybe drop an EMP, do some fast running, I dunno (which is a nice change in DXHR from DX - the mech augs seem USEFUL for a change), and maybe have EMP attack drain their bioenergy.

Federova's got cloaking, Barrett's got his tank stuff going on, and hopefully those fights will be special and unique.

Mindmute
23rd Sep 2010, 00:33
do some fast running, I dunno (which is a nice change in DXHR from DX - the mech augs seem USEFUL for a change), and maybe have EMP attack drain their bioenergy.

Federova's got cloaking, Barrett's got his tank stuff going on, and hopefully those fights will be special and unique.

Well, honestly I remember Simons moving very fast at one point, it was just a shame that the AI preffered to turn on the protective augs and just sit down and shoot.

I'm going to agree with you about mech-augs honestly, they were odd in DX, the game tried to give you the feeling that they were super-human and then they ended up being just marginally more competent than a trooper with Obsidian armour.

pringlepower
23rd Sep 2010, 00:37
Well, honestly I remember Simons moving very fast at one point, it was just a shame that the AI preffered to turn on the protective augs and just sit down and shoot.

I'm going to agree with you about mech-augs honestly, they were odd in DX, the game tried to give you the feeling that they were super-human and then they ended up being just marginally more competent than a trooper with Obsidian armour.

Oh, I forgot that most of the augs can be disguised as stat changes (Ballistic, etc.).

Still if Simons shot a spy drone at me and then EMPed me from it, that'd be pretty sweet. And having that anti-explosive aug would be cool too (did they have it on? I never tried LAMs or GEPs, I just shot him).

Mindmute
23rd Sep 2010, 00:39
Oh, I forgot that most of the augs can be disguised as stat changes (Ballistic, etc.).

Still if Simons shot a spy drone at me and then EMPed me from it, that'd be pretty sweet. And having that anti-explosive aug would be cool too (did they have it on? I never tried LAMs or GEPs, I just shot him).

I believe if he had it, it was at a very low level since I remember critically injuring him with a nearby LAW shot during a playthrough.


Either way the new AI should perform a lot better than that, I just hope the boss fights aren't full of scripted events where they activate some unique and unphantomable new aug of theirs..

Here's to waiting for more info or the demo!

pringlepower
23rd Sep 2010, 00:46
I believe if he had it, it was at a very low level since I remember critically injuring him with a nearby LAW shot during a playthrough.


Either way the new AI should perform a lot better than that, I just hope the boss fights aren't full of scripted events where they activate some unique and unphantomable new aug of theirs..

Here's to waiting for more info or the demo!

Barrett's arm changes into... a nuke launcher!

Barrett's torso then expands and turns into... a radiation proof bunker!

What will Adam do?

Or to keep it simple, a landshark gun.

singularity
23rd Sep 2010, 00:57
As far as I'm concerned -- if there is a "memorable character" in the game, and you have to do battle with that character, the battle better damn well be "memorable". The "boss battles" in DX were perhaps the most dissapointing and forgettable encounters in video game history. Once the gimmick of the killphrase option wore off, they were nothing but troopers with normal guns and a ton of health.

Now, "memorable" need not mean epic, crazy and over the top. Look at the battle with Psycho Mantis in MGS -- special for its own reasons... or the battle with The Boss in MGS3 -- nothing special about the battle, but the emotional impact you got when you were forced to kill her made the game.

Unique characters require unique encounters, because when I look back at the video games I've played, characters like Gunther are nothing but a couple of funny one-liners about orange soda, where as characters like Sniper Wolf I'll remember forever.

If you can't make it emotional, make it unique, and if you can't make it unique, make it big... and if you're good -- make a boss battle all three. That's my take on it.

Pinky_Powers
23rd Sep 2010, 03:27
So many posts... each so long!

Forgive me if it's already been pointed out, but in regard to the Bosses:

Blade-Hunter is right, Dugas has made it clear Bosses have to be killed or "fought". But Dugas has made it equally clear that players who build a Stealth Character will not be screwed in these encounters.

Irate_Iguana
23rd Sep 2010, 07:41
Unique characters require unique encounters, because when I look back at the video games I've played, characters like Gunther are nothing but a couple of funny one-liners about orange soda, where as characters like Sniper Wolf I'll remember forever.

Funny. I remember Gunther not only for his funny one-liners but for his problem with coming to terms with what he really is. Sniper Wolf on the other hand was nothing more than a ridiculous bit of cleavage.

rubiomhs
23rd Sep 2010, 07:45
Funny. I remember Gunther not only for his funny one-liners but for his problem with coming to terms with what he really is. Sniper Wolf on the other hand was nothing more than a ridiculous bit of cleavage.

they're both superficial comic-book characters with zero character development. oh and sniper wolf definitely was designed with the typical teenage gamer in mind. same design philosophy behind federova, really.

Mindmute
23rd Sep 2010, 11:30
they're both superficial comic-book characters with zero character development. oh and sniper wolf definitely was designed with the typical teenage gamer in mind. same design philosophy behind federova, really.

Zero character development?

If you read the emails you could get hints of his struggle with accepting that his augmentations are final and that he seems to be having second thoughts about them and his place in the world (it is widely accepted that the email on Jaime's newsletter was Gunther's).
It's quite clear to see his admiration (or more) for Navarre, dislike and mistrust for Paul, feeling of inedequacy after being captured (even Denton comments on how he's been basically relegated to peace-keeping missions) and it's not hard to panthom a backstory to all that.

You even get a piece of character progression troughtout the game from him, with his change of heart and single-minded desire to avenge Navarre leading him into craving further augmentation and tune-ups (comment from Simons) in order to be sure that he can "lay her spirit to rest by making her killers pay".



Honestly, Gunther has more depth than some bioware characters, he just doesn't unrealisticly tell you his life's story like those...

xaduha
23rd Sep 2010, 12:09
If someone missed this
Laputan Machine (http://designreboot.blogspot.com/2009/10/design-reboot-laputan-machine.html)
Flatlander Woman (http://designreboot.blogspot.com/2009/10/design-reboot-flatlander-woman.html)

rubiomhs
23rd Sep 2010, 15:47
Zero character development?

If you read the emails you could get hints of his struggle with accepting that his augmentations are final and that he seems to be having second thoughts about them and his place in the world (it is widely accepted that the email on Jaime's newsletter was Gunther's).
It's quite clear to see his admiration (or more) for Navarre, dislike and mistrust for Paul, feeling of inedequacy after being captured (even Denton comments on how he's been basically relegated to peace-keeping missions) and it's not hard to panthom a backstory to all that.

You even get a piece of character progression troughtout the game from him, with his change of heart and single-minded desire to avenge Navarre leading him into craving further augmentation and tune-ups (comment from Simons) in order to be sure that he can "lay her spirit to rest by making her killers pay".



Honestly, Gunther has more depth than some bioware characters, he just doesn't unrealisticly tell you his life's story like those...

he's ok for those reasons you stated, but ultimately kind of a cardboard cutout, genric upstart kind of character. eager to please. we've all seen this kind of character and it is exactly what it is, comic book stuff.

agreed with the hilariously bad bioware character dialog.

singularity
23rd Sep 2010, 22:32
Yeah - as soon as I typed "Sniper Wolf" I knew the references to her cleavage were comming. Sticking with MGS as a model, Solidus Snake, The Boss and Big Boss would be much more suitable characters for my "example".

As for Gunther coming to terms with who he really is, etc -- I can see where you get that, but I never FELT that... it was nothing more than a few lines of dialogue and an email or two. Sure, we know he might like Anna, he might regret his augmentations and he has feelings of inadequacy. If it takes an entire game to develop those few simple traits in a character, the character is a failure as far as I'm concerned... I can walk up to perfect strangers and tell you more about them than that in only 15 minute's time. If they're in a supporting role for 20+ hours... and then I have to kill them... I'm expecting to remember them.

AxiomaticBadger
23rd Sep 2010, 22:59
I'm hoping that there'll be properly constructed environmental details we can use to kill the bosses, like hackable turrets or explosive crates, or some other way to kill them indirectly.

pringlepower
24th Sep 2010, 00:47
Yeah - as soon as I typed "Sniper Wolf" I knew the references to her cleavage were comming. Sticking with MGS as a model, Solidus Snake, The Boss and Big Boss would be much more suitable characters for my "example".

As for Gunther coming to terms with who he really is, etc -- I can see where you get that, but I never FELT that... it was nothing more than a few lines of dialogue and an email or two. Sure, we know he might like Anna, he might regret his augmentations and he has feelings of inadequacy. If it takes an entire game to develop those few simple traits in a character, the character is a failure as far as I'm concerned... I can walk up to perfect strangers and tell you more about them than that in only 15 minute's time. If they're in a supporting role for 20+ hours... and then I have to kill them... I'm expecting to remember them.

As soon as I heard the name Solid Snake, I immediately thought of an erection. How could they get away with giving him that name?

TrickyVein
24th Sep 2010, 02:14
Hehehheeeeheheee ehehe ha

Shralla
24th Sep 2010, 02:14
they're both superficial comic-book characters with zero character development. oh and sniper wolf definitely was designed with the typical teenage gamer in mind. same design philosophy behind federova, really.

Wait, so you're really going to tell me that this: http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v181/Shralla/Fedorova.jpg

Is in any way comparable to this: http://img134.imageshack.us/img134/1844/csknipatu1.jpg


I mean... REALLY?

AlexOfSpades
24th Sep 2010, 11:26
Fedorova is original. I've never seen anything like her.

She's not your regular femme fatale. She's a freak.

Boring typical teenager characters:

Trish and Lady from Devil May Cry (They're walking-boobs)

Lara Croft (She's hollow.)

Navarre was damn original and Fedorova looks original too.

I mean.

She's a black girl with half-shaved head, cyber legs and renascense-styled shirt. No cleavage, no short jeans. No bouncing boobs.

Pinky_Powers
24th Sep 2010, 11:42
^... Well said! That's just my take on it, as well. :thumb:

I had written out a replay to rubiomhs that was a solid mix between your's and Shralla's, but I don't know what happened to it. It's like it was deleted. More than likely, I had hit "Preview Post" to examine it and proof-read it properly, and then closed the tab without releasing I never submitted the damn thing... That's happened more than once. :o

TrickyVein
24th Sep 2010, 14:19
Lara Croft (She's hollow.)

You might just make it on to my ignore-list after all. I feel that I have a duty, however, to defend Lady Croft. You know, some of us were around when Tomb Raider first came out.

Part killer, part scholar, possessing that type of class which can only belong to the English aristocracy, trumping whatever base, pedestrian mannerisms you or I may have; she has money, and power, and is truly one of the most "endearing figures of our times."

And you expect to be heard, throwing out this baseless accusation. There are bigger fish to fry, after all.

AlexOfSpades
24th Sep 2010, 15:34
You might just make it on to my ignore-list after all. I feel that I have a duty, however, to defend Lady Croft. You know, some of us were around when Tomb Raider first came out.

Part killer, part scholar, possessing that type of class which can only belong to the English aristocracy, trumping whatever base, pedestrian mannerisms you or I may have; she has money, and power, and is truly one of the most "endearing figures of our times."

And you expect to be heard, throwing out this baseless accusation. There are bigger fish to fry, after all.

I was around when Tomb Raider first came out.

It is just my little humble opinion that her behaviour or mannerism doesnt make her a deep character. I must admit that i'm not an expert into Tomb Raider story. Maybe i'm wrong, and you're right.

But from what i can see, she seems to be just the stereotypical adventurer chick.

TrickyVein
24th Sep 2010, 16:15
One of the first adventure chicks in gaming. That resonates with many people, I think.

Ilves
24th Sep 2010, 16:50
But from what i can see, she seems to be just the stereotypical adventurer chick.

Of course Lara Croft's initial success hinged on her black swan quality, as Tricky points out. But I'd like to add that she's been steadily degenerating into uninspired stereotype/caricature ever since the first 3 games. Writing's gone downhill like there's no tomorrow.

Related: A lot's been said on these boards about letting your wallet do the talking, case in point Tomb Raider Underworld... Apparently sales were poor enough to force Crystal Dynamics to try out something completely different, resulting in the latest downloadable Guardian of whatsit, with a total departure from the classical gameplay. I'm still not interested, and I still dislike Crystal Dynamics handling of the IP as a whole, but it may be an example of a franchise being forced to reinvent itself when the market gives it the cold shoulder. /wishful thinking

lithos
24th Sep 2010, 18:39
Of course Lara Croft's initial success hinges on her black swan quality, as Tricky points out. But I'd like to add that she's been steadily degenerating into uninspired stereotype/caricature ever since the first 3 games. Writing's gone downhill like there's no tomorrow.

The industry's grown up...


Related: A lot's been said on these boards about letting your wallet do the talking, case in point Tomb Raider Underworld... Apparently sales were poor enough to force Crystal Dynamics to try out something completely different, resulting in the latest downloadable Guardian of whatsit, with a total departure from the classical gameplay. I'm still not interested, and I still dislike Crystal Dynamics handling of the IP as a whole

Who needs talent when you got IP?

rubiomhs
24th Sep 2010, 20:05
Fedorova is original. I've never seen anything like her.

She's not your regular femme fatale. She's a freak.

Boring typical teenager characters:

Trish and Lady from Devil May Cry (They're walking-boobs)

Lara Croft (She's hollow.)

Navarre was damn original and Fedorova looks original too.

I mean.

She's a black girl with half-shaved head, cyber legs and renascense-styled shirt. No cleavage, no short jeans. No bouncing boobs.

the trailer showed a cutscene featuring an slow pan up from her rear. later on she's taking, presumable sexual pleasure(with her tongue sticking out), from killing a bunch of rioters. this character is a walking cliche.

Ilves
24th Sep 2010, 20:08
@ Lithos: There's tons of true talent & craftmanship in the industry, that's not the problem. It's the lack of guts. Then again, a bubblegum formula franchise like Tomb Raider doesn't need guts, just inspired fun.

Uncharted filled the void for a while, but then felt compelled to expand its playing field by reaching out to a certain demographic with its introduction of military imagery & war torn cities, among other things. :rolleyes:

Shralla
24th Sep 2010, 22:19
the trailer showed a cutscene featuring an slow pan up from her rear.

Which is a fairly standard establishing shot, and would likely have been used even if she had been a man.


later on she's taking, presumable sexual pleasure(with her tongue sticking out)

Sexual pleasure is a pretty big leap.

FrankCSIS
24th Sep 2010, 23:36
Fedorova is original. I've never seen anything like her.

http://images.tribe.net/tribe/upload/photo/357/9db/3579db30-a89d-49d6-a947-b003bf867971

Xenia Zaragevna Onatopp

There aren't many, but they do exist! ;)

OwlSolar
25th Sep 2010, 05:54
Fedorova seems like an expy of Anna Navarre to me. They both use submachine guns, they both cloak, they're both homicidal psychos...