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kentuckyfried
20th Sep 2010, 20:34
I didn't play them b/c I didn't have a PC at the time...plus I was busy playing games on the PS1/PS2.

Is it worth it to go back and play the first 2 entries?

Pinky_Powers
20th Sep 2010, 20:44
Only if you want to experience something wonderful.

Kodaemon
20th Sep 2010, 20:51
The first game is one of the best games ever. The second one... isn't.

Angel-A
20th Sep 2010, 20:57
Deus Ex is a must play, definitely worth every cent. Just... Awesome.
As for Invisble War, you can go either way, really. It's considered generally to be pretty good and an above average game on it's own (people who haven't played the original do think IW is great), but when put to comparision against Deus Ex it's widely regarded as bad. Some liked it, most did not. It very was watered down and too different.

Lady_Of_The_Vine
20th Sep 2010, 21:11
Deus Ex is a must play, definitely worth every cent. Just... Awesome.
As for Invisble War, you can go either way, really. It's considered generally to be pretty good and an above average game on it's own (people who haven't played the original do think IW is great), but when put to comparision against Deus Ex it's widely regarded as bad. Some liked it, most did not. It very was watered down and too different.

QFT.
Except: I played IW after DX1 and I wouldn't describe it as "bad"; I'd say "disappointing".
The Omar saved the day for me, obviously. :p

NKD
20th Sep 2010, 21:13
Definitely play them both. While IW is pretty disappointing next to the first, it's still at least an average game on its own.

luminar
20th Sep 2010, 21:16
QFT.
Except: I played IW after DX1 and I wouldn't describe it as "bad"; I'd say "disappointing".
The Omar saved the day for me, obviously. :p

Very true! It's like the annoying tagalong little brother we'd rather just ignore.

Pinky_Powers
20th Sep 2010, 22:13
As they say, Invisible War compares terribly to Deus Ex. Compared to other First-person-shooters, it's outstanding.

Mindmute
20th Sep 2010, 22:15
As they say, Invisible War compares terribly to Deus Ex. Compared to other First-person-shooters, it's outstanding.

I'd say it's good when compared to other FPS games, but was I really the only one who despised how ham-fisted the whole storyline and delivery in IW was?

Gaunt88
20th Sep 2010, 22:16
I'd say play both. IW is still an enjoyable game.

I'm sure I'm not the only one here who found IW first, loved it and played the hell out of it before buying DX from a bargain bin years later.

nomotog
20th Sep 2010, 22:21
If you have the money and the time, go on and get both.

AlexOfSpades
20th Sep 2010, 22:25
I agree with everyone above.

Play the first two, In the order!

Deus Ex -> Invisible War

NKD
20th Sep 2010, 22:30
I'd say it's good when compared to other FPS games, but was I really the only one who despised how ham-fisted the whole storyline and delivery in IW was?

People complain about the technical limitations of the Xbox, etc. But what you point out was the biggest flaw of all, in my opinion. More than the steps backwards in gameplay, the story just didn't feel like Deus Ex to me. The characters were hollow, the voice acting was worse than the original, which I didn't think was possible at the time. Then they chose to mash all three DX endings into one game and it just felt very forced.

AlexOfSpades
20th Sep 2010, 22:38
Indeed.


But the worst part, for me, in Invisible War was simply the

Dont read it if you didnt played it!

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

way they presented JC Denton. He wasnt muscular and had that super jaw, he was just.. a skinny guy with a overcoat. In the ending of the first Deus Ex, JC Denton has so much augs he's a god - almost litteraly. Then in IW, he's down with two shots or what.


~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Mindmute
20th Sep 2010, 22:40
People complain about the technical limitations of the Xbox, etc. But what you point out was the biggest flaw of all, in my opinion. More than the steps backwards in gameplay, the story just didn't feel like Deus Ex to me. The characters were hollow, the voice acting was worse than the original, which I didn't think was possible at the time. Then they chose to mash all three DX endings into one game and it just felt very forced.

Exactly how I feel, some of the characters and their outlooks on the world just feel tacked on for convenience. The characters in DX were so strong, in general, that even those who had less than five minutes of screen-time (I'm thinking specifically Nicolette at the moment) left a strong inprint of their personality.

Using her as an example, along comes IW and tacks on that despite years or rebellion and criticism of her mother for her role as an Illuminatus and the lack of freedom that entails she now fully accepts that the world needs order, creates a composite of several churches and effectively replaces all religions in the world.

(I stayed clear of how they portrayed JC's personality or lack thereof to avoid a riot, see how nice I am?!
You'd think that since DX was basically a game where you make your own JC they'd try to steer clear of him rather than likely end up contradicting everything you made JC about in your head...)


EDIT: Hid spoiler text for those who haven't played it and still plan to

Dead-Eye
20th Sep 2010, 22:43
I say don't play Invisible War. It's just too buggy if you play it on the PC and the 360 can't play the Xbox version. Also personally I found it to be the most disappointing game ever made.

As for the first, well... it's the greatest game ever made so... why haven't you played it! :nut:

NKD
20th Sep 2010, 22:45
I stayed clear of how they portrayed JC's personality or lack thereof to avoid a riot, see how nice I am?!
You'd think that since DX was basically a game where you make your own JC they'd try to steer clear of him rather than likely end up contradicting everything you made JC about in your head..

Yeah they really painted themselves into a corner there. We see the same thing here on the forums sometimes. "What, Adam Jensen is doing X?! JC Denton would never do that, he was a subtle, sneaky dude!" and then I think "Wait just a minute. I distinctly remember doing zyme, drinking beer, smoking cigarettes, and then GEP gunning Manderley and a few hobos."

It's really hard to portray a blank slate character like that in a sequel. Mass Effect 2 had the right idea with its save-game importing. That's really the only way to do it believably, and it's a lot of work.

beastrn
21st Sep 2010, 00:00
I'm going to disagree with everyone here and suggest you don't play either of them.

If you don't, you might actually enjoy DX:HR

NKD
21st Sep 2010, 00:04
I'm going to disagree with everyone here and suggest you don't play either of them.

If you don't, you might actually enjoy DX:HR

Why you always so down bro? Cheer up man. Life isn't so bad.

pringlepower
21st Sep 2010, 00:09
For maximum enjoyment, playing IW first might remove some of the disappointment and high expectations following DX. And the story is pretty standalone too.

jtr7
21st Sep 2010, 01:12
Treat Invisible War like an appendix to the story of Deus Ex, and armed with the knowledge therein, tackle Human Revolution. I'll leave the appendicitis quips to someone else, heh heh.

AlexOfSpades
21st Sep 2010, 01:18
I love this spoiler thing.

In the end they were all dead. (Lost)

In the end they were all dead. (The Others)

In the end he was dead. (Sixth Sense)

mad825
21st Sep 2010, 01:53
I love this spoiler thing.

eh, the spoiler tags in these forums suck.

all you can place is text while also making post uncomfortably big, the features of these spoiler tags can be done on any competent vBulletin board without the [SPOILER]

jjc
21st Sep 2010, 02:38
I loved DX and was moderately let down by IW on PC.
I enjoyed IW much more on XBOX and thought DX was downright unplayable on PS2.

xaduha
21st Sep 2010, 03:56
I say play IW. With Unified Texture Pack (http://www.john-p.com/textures/DX-IW/) and as female Alex Denton. It doesn't hurt to use only melee too, so you can avoid "universal ammo" nonsense :)

Tecman
21st Sep 2010, 03:59
I say play IW. With Unified Texture Pack (http://www.john-p.com/textures/DX-IW/) and as female Alex Denton. It doesn't hurt to use only melee too, so you can avoid "universal ammo" nonsense :)
Also, don't forget to check the Utilities section of that site and grab Kefren's DXTool. I can't even touch IW without setting some things up with it.

Dead-Eye
21st Sep 2010, 04:01
I say play IW. With Unified Texture Pack (http://www.john-p.com/textures/DX-IW/) and as female Alex Denton. It doesn't hurt to use only melee too, so you can avoid "universal ammo" nonsense :)

lol, it's sad because all of that was good advice. Damn that game looks ugly even with the higher res textures.

Edit: I just want to add that Invisible War was so shockingly bad, to me, I had to take the game cover art out of the box and draw pictures all over it depicting Alex sucking on you know whats. I just pulled the box out and it's the only one without a cover. Indstead it just has a warring label:

Warring!
Deus Ex: IW
is
the
worst
game
Ever!
Do not play!
or
Suffer! :(

Pinky_Powers
21st Sep 2010, 04:19
I was having a hell of a good time playing Invisible War a couple months back. But unfortunately it is still so broken and finicky it just stopped working for some reason. And then, a few weeks later, I tried it again and it worked. And then the f**ker stopped again.

It's a really decent game, but there are evil spirits in it that f**k with your computer.

If you have the old X-Box I suggest buying it for that instead. The PC port is still to this day a horrid botch of foul software.

Dead-Eye
21st Sep 2010, 04:25
I was having a hell of a good time playing Invisible War a couple months back. But unfortunately it is still so broken and finicky it just stopped working for some reason. And then, a few weeks later, I tried it again and it worked. And then the f**ker stopped again.

It's a really decent game, but there are evil spirits in it that f**k with your computer.

If you have the old X-Box I suggest buying it for that instead. The PC port is still to this day a horrid botch of foul software.

I'm trying to install the game right now and it ask me to put disk 2 in. After I do that it tells me that I didn't insert the right disk and crashes the install.

Edit: Oh I see you need to have 2 disk drives because both disks need to be in the computer at the same time. lol!

Tecman
21st Sep 2010, 04:32
Warning! Deus Ex: IW is the worst game Ever! Do not play! or Suffer! :(
Eh, not really. I'd like to introduce you to one of the more serious contestants for that title. (http://store.steampowered.com/app/19500/) Seriously, goddamn.

It has to be said, however, that technically IW can be extremely unstable or even un-cooperative to the point of being unable to play it, which some interpret as a defensive device. :D If you're about to start playing the game, you just need to realize that it DOES have issues and you need to be able to either forgive or ignore them, otherwise you'll get angry at the game to the point where you'll be foaming.

I remember really, really, really hating it, but a bit later I still gave it a shot and actually finished it. It has its moments, it's just too bad that utterly bad tech (hey guys, let's use a custom renderer for UE2 then have the main programmer leave while the bloody thing is still coughing and falling over itself and the code is undocumented), some really weird design decisions (the HUD and inventory management, universal ammo, but not just that - universal ammo without really designing the ammo distribution system to suit its needs, unification of some gameplay systems just because your dev friends gave you wrong input), memory limitations (seriously, don't tell me there aren't any if most of the weapons in IW share a single god-damn texture, the loading screens were plentiful and the models had a hilariously low polygon count and the only redeeming feature was normal-mapping of the faces, okay) and what I consider the worst offender: having a game that's supposedly all about emergent gameplay and choices, then design them in such a way that you almost never get negative repercussions for those choices when picking a side, making you feel as if they don't even matter at all (You just killed our entire base's population? Bad, bad boy/girl! Welp, we still need you, can you still do this mission for us?).

Having said that, however, IW can still be a lot of fun in certain places. The "******* physics" aspect of it almost never gets old, learning more and more about ApostleCorp and the nature of the Enclaves and the factions within them, you still need to plan your approach in most cases, some of the NPCs like the NG Resonance AI or Luminon Saman felt rather well-written, the "chat" with JC actually felt like something a DX game should absolutely have, the shooting of certain weapons feels good and since there's the universal ammo mechanic you can pretty much specialize a lot into one or two weapons (although, I admit, it only got satisfying once I upped the damage modifiers just enough to be able to deliver old-school headshots with the pistol), the Bot Domination augm... Biomod felt extremely satisfying, etc.

Farouk
21st Sep 2010, 04:37
Deus Ex 1 is awesome. Only problems IMO: the beginning pretty much forces everybody into a carefull stealthy approach. But that can be overcome pretty quickly with earning and spending skill points and clever weapon upgrading. Oh and DX has very stiff aimations, but that's cosmetics.

This thread made reinstall IW and I've played it. And I had some fun. It's got a few serious problems though.
It's far too condensed. Too much people asking you to do too much stuff in a too small space.
Unfortunately that results easily in a situation in which you are constantly a double or triple agent, backstabbing all of them again and again. That may sound like fun, but unfortunately it isn't. It isn't fun because the result is that you eventually just don't give a **** anymore, about anything.

That problem leads to my advice for the first playthrough: Don't try to do all of it! Carefully choose the tasks you actually want to do! Ignore tasks that operate against your chosen faction! (And the following goes probably against the instincts of any Deus Ex 1 player) Don't explore every crook and nanny! Instead concentrate on your chosen objective!

You may switch factions if you think the one you followed so far is crap and another one seems to make more sense, but I wouldn't do it too often.

Another IW problem: It's a ******* console game that was badly ported. Seriously: even after applying the latest patch the UI is horrible. One example: I chose the hacking aug and at first wasn't able to do anything with it, because the hacking UI doesn't use any of your reconfigured keys, no it only works with the Enter key alone (which of course is as far away from my WASD setup as possible). Took me some time to figure it out.
Harvey Smith, **** you! For that mistake you deserve it.
And if the PC version of Human Revolution has something like that: ticket to Canada, chainsaw (as some other user -forgot who exactly- put so eloquently.)

Also there are a lot of small disappointing design choices in the gameplay: Universal ammo, weak weapons (they feel like pea shooters without oomph! and headshots won't help either), ridiculous exagerated ragdoll effects, no skills, ****ty stealth (unless you concentrate fully on stealth augs), illogical enemy design (Why can the fully armored security guard be killed with one shotgun blast but the thug in plain clothes next to him needs two shots to go down? Why doesn't the fully upgraded environmental protection aug doesn't even allow me to at least somehow survive the detonation of one of the self-exploding enemies, although the environmental hazard icon flashes up in the explosion?)
But those samll annoying things can be overcome and at least I can have some fun with IW.

Dead-Eye
21st Sep 2010, 04:54
Also the only original good music in the entire game is when you hit the credits button in the system menu.

It's sad because one of the absolute best things about Deus Ex was it's awesome credits music. And in IW they don't even play the credits when you beat the game. It just cuts back to the main menu...

...So if the devs are still paying attention I definitely recommend adding credits after we beat the game that have some awesome music. :poke:

jtr7
21st Sep 2010, 04:55
Semi-forcing the player to use skills that games at that time almost never included as an option was important and uncomfortably necessary.

Pinky_Powers
21st Sep 2010, 05:22
Semi-forcing the player to use skills that games at that time almost never included as an option was important and uncomfortably necessary.

What do you mean?

Dead-Eye
21st Sep 2010, 05:23
It crashed. I tried to use the crazy gymnastic feature and the computer exploded.

It funny but that was one good things about that game. The crazy first person gymnastics feature. Then the computer crashed because I was about to change my opinion.

JCpies
21st Sep 2010, 06:13
If you want to be disappointed with Human revolution, play Deus Ex.

singularity
21st Sep 2010, 07:37
If you have been playing a lot of modern games, and never quite got into gaming "back in the day," you might find DX a little dissapointing, to be perfectly honest. Sure, it was hot stuff about a decade ago, but it has aged tremendously and not exactly for the better. I'd say if you never played it in its hay-day, but want a trip down memory lane, in regards to older PC gaming, pick it up. If not... well... buy at your own risk. The plot takes a very long time to pick up (and is generally laughably convoluted... they tried very hard to fit EVERY conspiracy theory in the world into the game, and the plot suffers because of it), graphics and animations are an eye sore, and the shooting mechanics are quite horrible, along with enemy AI. Why is it so popular? Because it supported you playing however you wanted... which is still a big deal... just not nearly AS big.

As for IW... well, it kept a lot of the same problems I had with DX and then added new ones. Story line was even more convoluted (but at least more original), and delivered poorly, all while design decisions like universal ammo, restrictive invintory and complete lack of RPG elements made this one lack-luster for me.

Bottom line: DX is a classic... and if you're into classics pick it up. Otherwise, steer clear, because 10 years later, a lot of the charm has worn thin and you probably won't get what all the hype is about. IF you decide DX is for you, you play it, beat it, like it, and want some more -- try IW (for the x-box if you can).

Ninjerk
21st Sep 2010, 09:02
The only parts of the story that got me when it came to story convolution were... the grays, I guess. I need to do another playthrough.

I think my favorite part about the game (and I believe there was a post about this several months/longer ago) was how "well-read" it was. I'm almost certain someone here has said that and I completely agree.

lithos
21st Sep 2010, 09:09
The first two are pretty terrible.

There's hardly any epic cutscenes, or cosplay-tastic outfits. No fancy takedowns, either - you actually have to hit people with melee weapons. The cover systems are stupid - you actually have to hide behind stuff yourself, and there's no cool switch to third-person perspective. It's like they learned nothing from Gears of War. You actually have to hide in shadows and stuff.

Plus, there's just too much crap in them. It's like reading a book or something. All this deep philosophical insight, political theory and stuff - Ion Storm spent too much time on that crap and not enough time making stuff to blow up.

beastrn
21st Sep 2010, 09:57
That sums it up pretty perfectly. Deus Ex is like reading a book. What a snoozefest *yawn*

Xenoc
21st Sep 2010, 11:18
Agree with all the above, play them both and in order. You can get both on steam today and DX1 works via steam with the widescreen fix if you need so give it a bash!

Angel-A
21st Sep 2010, 18:29
Very true! It's like the annoying tagalong little brother we'd rather just ignore.
*sigh* Alex, why can't you be more like your brother? :nut:



lol, it's sad because all of that was good advice. Damn that game looks ugly even with the higher res textures.

Edit: I just want to add that Invisible War was so shockingly bad, to me, I had to take the game cover art out of the box and draw pictures all over it depicting Alex sucking on you know whats. I just pulled the box out and it's the only one without a cover. Indstead it just has a warring label:

Warring!
Deus Ex: IW
is
the
worst
game
Ever!
Do not play!
or
Suffer! :(
I lol'd.

JCpies
21st Sep 2010, 19:01
That sums it up pretty perfectly. Deus Ex is like reading a book. What a snoozefest *yawn*

I totally agree, especially the part where you can cut up a chinese woman and jump out of her penthouse apartment to get away from her secret little 'army' hidden behin a buddha statue. That was so boring, I almost fell asleep. Sounds like something out of Kill bill. (Not seen it though, probably as boring as Deus Ex).

H.D.Case
21st Sep 2010, 19:26
No.
You should play Project Snowblind instead. The best of the trilogy :D

H.D.Case
21st Sep 2010, 19:30
BTW, the wikipedia description sounds familiar.


In Project: Snowblind, the player assumes the identity of Nathan Frost, a soldier in an international peacekeeping force known as the Liberty Coalition. After being critically injured during an enemy attack, Frost is implanted with experimental nano-technological augmentations and enhancements, turning him into "the soldier of the future". Frost must use his new powers to help lead the Coalition to victory against overwhelming odds. :scratch:

spm1138
21st Sep 2010, 20:08
Yeah definitely. First one is an all time classic.

Second one is Not That Bad. It's not like... painful to play. It's just not that great compared to the first one.

AlexOfSpades
21st Sep 2010, 22:00
BTW, the wikipedia description sounds familiar.

:scratch:


The next sentence is even better.


"Yan Lo, who believes that technology has made humankind weak, plans to detonate EMP bombs in New York, Paris, and Hong Kong thus shutting down much of humankind's technological civilization and plunging the world into another dark age."



..... yeah

Pinky_Powers
21st Sep 2010, 22:35
^... Clearly they're fans! :D

Unstoppable
21st Sep 2010, 23:17
Here's a thought, if you play the second one first and the first one second you get a better gaming experience since the games get better! Get it? Good!

Disclaimer:
If you have no idea what I just said then that's too bad! No just kidding. I meant to play Invisible War 1st since it is not as good as the first game. Then when you are done with Invisible War play the original Deus Ex for a better gaming experience.

lithos
22nd Sep 2010, 05:00
New York and Paris are technological centres?

Oh, well. As long as we still have Tokyo, Taipei, Silicon Valley, Beijing, Berlin...

puzl
22nd Sep 2010, 09:46
Re IW, i'll just copy/paste my old 2006 metacritic review for it!


When I first played this back in 2003, my expectations were unrealistically high. Like many others, I wanted the original Deus Ex with updated graphics, and better AI. Instead, I felt the game had been watered-down considerably, and many of the features that made the original so great (like ATM machines with real pins, a log you can add to etc..) were replaced with simple point & click operations. The graphics engine was also incredibly demanding at the time, and even those with the fastest PC's struggled to keep a consistantly decent framerate. The music wasn't as memorable as the original, and Alex Denton didn't seem to have the dark, gritty qualities that made JC so cool. However, I recently played through the game again. I found myself enjoying it much more when I tossed aside my sentiments of the original, and take DX:IW for what it really is - a reinterpration of the DX universe, which still has a great plot, interesting characters, and the same style of interactivity which made the original so special. If you want to get the most from this game, then play it with the mindframe that it isn't the sequel to the game we all love. You will enjoy it a lot more, and worry less about the faults, and more about the special things that this game has.

FWIW, use the unified texture pack, play it on a modern machine, do the GUI fixes with dxtool and you'll enjoy it a lot, lot more. The engine is still horrible and load times are constant, but it's honestly not a bad game at all. Just disappointing next to the first one.

ixat
22nd Sep 2010, 15:30
Definitely worth playing, however some advice. Like another person stated, the graphics in DX 1 look horrible compared to today's games, but the game play is unbeatable. If you REALLY want to know what all the fuss is about, play it, and if your like me, you'll probably hate the fist couple of hours and want to uninstall it. Keep going, and going, and once you beat it. Play it again, except this time, explore, read everything, talk to everyone, and explore some more. You will cherish this game forever. For my advice on DX:IW, just play it, beat it, and get rid of it. Just to say you did. I have played it about four times, and never once got the same enjoyment and wonder as I did with the first.

Ninjerk
22nd Sep 2010, 15:53
The first two are pretty terrible.

There's hardly any epic cutscenes, or cosplay-tastic outfits. No fancy takedowns, either - you actually have to hit people with melee weapons. The cover systems are stupid - you actually have to hide behind stuff yourself, and there's no cool switch to third-person perspective. It's like they learned nothing from Gears of War. You actually have to hide in shadows and stuff.

Plus, there's just too much crap in them. It's like reading a book or something. All this deep philosophical insight, political theory and stuff - Ion Storm spent too much time on that crap and not enough time making stuff to blow up.

The explosion graphics and gore were really badly implemented. You can't even chop someone's head off with the lightsaber-thingy.

K^2
22nd Sep 2010, 15:53
As they say, Invisible War compares terribly to Deus Ex. Compared to other First-person-shooters, it's outstanding.
I wouldn't take it that far. IW had tiny levels, bad loading times, wonky physics, poor performance, and weak AI. It had a lot of positive qualities as well, but it is not outstanding by any measure. It's above average. That's about it.

The original had problems too, but you forgot about them while playing the game, and that says a lot.

lithos
22nd Sep 2010, 16:54
Being set after the events of the first game, it was harder to get it to relate to reality, and that cut back a lot of it's impact.

Still, my normal summary of IW is "It's a good first third of a great game."

AlexOfSpades
22nd Sep 2010, 17:06
I wouldn't take it that far. IW had tiny levels, bad loading times, wonky physics, poor performance, and weak AI. It had a lot of positive qualities as well, but it is not outstanding by any measure. It's above average. That's about it.

The original had problems too, but you forgot about them while playing the game, and that says a lot.

He's right. Compared to Far Cry or HL2, IW was weak.

They were released kinda in the same year...
... right?