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Dr_Bob
5th Sep 2010, 14:39
http://pax.gamespot.com/video/6275271/#toggle_video

Warren talks about some pretty interesting things in this speech; such as mainstreaming, casual gamers, different mediums going through the same process games are going through today and games being blamed for social ill.

He also talks about November the 2nd, the day when games may be the first medium to be denied 1st Amendment protection. Read more about that here (http://videogamevoters.org/).

Pretentious Old Man.
5th Sep 2010, 14:52
"Deus Ex 47".

A combination of Deus Ex and Hitman? I'd buy it.

Shinrei
5th Sep 2010, 15:00
Warren Spector: "....basically I'm an academic geek...a man with a mission...." Hehe how true Mr. Spector, this keynote seems to be a very interesting, immersive speech. Thanks again Dr. Bob! :D

He's still the developer guru as he used to be. Now need to continue watching... :P

Dr_Bob
5th Sep 2010, 15:01
Warren Spector: "....basically I'm an academic geek...a man with a mission...." Hehe how true Mr. Spector, this keynote seems to be a very interesting, immersive speech. Thanks again Dr. Bob! :D

He's still the developer guru as he used to be. Now need to continue watching... :P

No problem.

:thumb:

Pretentious Old Man.
5th Sep 2010, 15:41
I disagree with Warren about Casual gaming. The perceived "threat" is not the fact that casual gaming exists, it's that it's phasing out other kinds of games, which don't "sell". This is not cool.

Fluffis
5th Sep 2010, 15:44
His comment (truism) on games that fail was completely epic:

"80% of games lose money, four out of five, and that 20% of the top 20 that make money, make 80% of the money. That's with all the focus testing and metrics tracking, and all that other stuff. You could not do worse, trusting your creatives to do whatever the heck they want! [...]We couldn't do worse than an 80% failure rate."

Pinky_Powers
5th Sep 2010, 16:03
Some very interesting stuff. And a few things I would never have expected him to say. Just goes to show us there's many sides and layers to a person, and there's always more to learn.

Pinky_Powers
5th Sep 2010, 16:07
I disagree with Warren about Casual gaming. The perceived "threat" is not the fact that casual gaming exists, it's that it's phasing out other kinds of games, which don't "sell". This is not cool.

I think that was part of the historical process that all media goes through once it reaches the casual consumer. Eventually it the media broadens out again. But it never returns to how is used to be.

Ashbery76
5th Sep 2010, 16:51
http://atgroundzero.net/newsevents/images/onehitwonder.jpg

Fluffis
5th Sep 2010, 17:50
I think that was part of the historical process that all media goes through once it reaches the casual consumer. Eventually it the media broadens out again. But it never returns to how is used to be.

Well, with that Supreme Court case, I'd say the future looks bleaker than that. It would effectively stop the computer game medium from broadening out again. Sure, there'd be games produced elsewhere that could do whatever the devs want but, without the US market (for violent games), no major publisher is going to take the risks involved. And, in time, that decision would influence other countries as well, where there are Moral Panic groups salivating over any chance to stop violent games.

That case could very well become the single most important decision ever made about computer gaming. And it may be made by people who are barely computer literate... "Frankly... I cringe, Mr Mayor."

Pinky_Powers
5th Sep 2010, 18:03
That case could very well become the single most important decision ever made, about computer gaming. And it may be made by people who are barely computer literate... "Frankly... I cringe, Mr Mayor."

Luckily, the main argument that will be made won't hinge on technology or crazed geeky jargon. It will be on the fundamentals of freedom of speech, censorship, and artistic expression.

These are issues with a lot of weight. And with the right orator, they can be wielded to great dramatic effect.

Fluffis
5th Sep 2010, 18:14
Luckily, the main argument that will be made won't hinge on technology or crazed geeky jargon. It will be on the fundamentals of freedom of speech, censorship, and artistic expression.

These are issues with a lot of weight. And with the right orator, they can be wielded to great dramatic effect.

That's very true. But a lot will still hinge on whether computer games are to be legally defined as an art form or not.
People who are fairly intimately familiar with computer games (though still as impartial as possible) would be better suited to make that call.

Donvermicelli
5th Sep 2010, 18:14
I think that was part of the historical process that all media goes through once it reaches the casual consumer. Eventually it the media broadens out again. But it never returns to how is used to be.

You mean like how TV discovered Tellsell and Bigbrother?

Pinky_Powers
5th Sep 2010, 18:25
You mean like how TV discovered Tellsell and Bigbrother?

Yes, actually. Broader means broader. And with the expanding of the catalog you will get good things and bad things, niche products and things nearly everybody can enjoy. Battlestar Galactica, House MD, 24, Desperate Housewives and The Bachelor. And that broad array is just with big-name items. There's the lesser-known stuff and cable channels.

Broader is good. But not if you're too stupid to switch off a show you don't like.

Shralla
5th Sep 2010, 18:29
He also talks about November the 2nd, the day when games may be the first medium to be denied 1st Amendment protection. Read more about that here (http://videogamevoters.org/).

Nobody anywhere is actually worried about that. It's come up countless times over the past fifteen years. It's never going to happen.

Fluffis
5th Sep 2010, 18:32
Nobody anywhere is actually worried about that. It's come up countless times over the past fifteen years. It's never going to happen.

This is the first time the computer game issue has reached the Supreme Court... This is the time to worry, my friend.

Shralla
5th Sep 2010, 18:35
Maybe not, but despite all the Supreme Court justices being old as hell, for the most part, they aren't idiots. And if you read back into case rulings over the years, most of them make perfect sense and represent a drive to balance protecting the people and allowing them freedom as well. Nothing is going to come of it.

Fluffis
5th Sep 2010, 19:04
Maybe not, but despite all the Supreme Court justices being old as hell, for the most part, they aren't idiots. And if you read back into case rulings over the years, most of them make perfect sense and represent a drive to balance protecting the people and allowing them freedom as well. Nothing is going to come of it.

Like I said: It hinges on whether computer games will be legally thought of as an art form. That's something I can see going either way, to be honest. I think it's completely silly that it hasn't already been acknowledged as one, but there you go. They can't even make a ruling on the case at hand, until they have made that decision.

Shralla
5th Sep 2010, 19:32
I'd say there's a 90% chance or greater that they'll rule that it is an artform. They would seriously have to be idiots not to. Do we know what's being presented on the supporting side?

Fluffis
5th Sep 2010, 21:04
I'd say there's a 90% chance or greater that they'll rule that it is an artform. They would seriously have to be idiots not to.


I have the philosophy of always expecting people around me to be idiots. That way, at least, I'm never disappointed. ;)



Do we know what's being presented on the supporting side?

I've been checking around a little bit, but all I can find so far is a couple of quotes from the people who passed the law in California. The Terminator himself, for instance. :P

And this: "California had argued that it had a right to regulate violent videogame content, because it already bans the sale of pornography to minors." (from wired.com)

I dunno... what I've seen from the side of the supporters is vague. I may not be looking in the right places. Either that, or they are really arrogant and consider this "open and shut".

Then again, I'm not really that well-versed in U.S. legal procedures, so I'm not entirely sure what a review of a law would entail.

68_pie
5th Sep 2010, 21:05
"We don't need more cinematic experiences"

Well said WS

luminar
6th Sep 2010, 00:23
Spector is awsome! I definetly hope his big talk is realised epic mickey and in his future projects and that the gamers/game developers stop making dumbed down stupid games.

lithos
6th Sep 2010, 06:35
And, in time, that decision would influence other countries as well, where there are Moral Panic groups salivating over any chance to stop violent games.

Possible, but the ramifications will be more financial than moral for non-US game makers.

"Here's my game pitch."

"Yeah, read it. We're not making it."

"Why not?"

"It won't sell in the US."

Irate_Iguana
6th Sep 2010, 07:54
Possible, but the ramifications will be more financial than moral for non-US game makers.

"Here's my game pitch."

"Yeah, read it. We're not making it."

"Why not?"

"It won't sell in the US."

The reason that no game goes for an AO rating is because it won't be sold in stores in the US. Specifically Walmart refuses to stock them. Several other companies do as well.

Red
6th Sep 2010, 07:55
Funny how I find most of us on this forum acting exactly as Warren challenged us to do. We demand, we want more, better, more complex, more walk, less talk, more substance, we want Deus Ex to be better than ever!

How deliciously ignored we are here even though we are trying to rise up to the challenge :|

Bono
6th Sep 2010, 09:08
Funny how I find most of us on this forum acting exactly as Warren challenged us to do. We demand, we want more, better, more complex, more walk, less talk, more substance, we want Deus Ex to be better than ever!

Yeah. And then we're told that we are old and we can't accept new things.

It has always been like this. Always will be. "They cannot stop the future".

Rindill the Red
6th Sep 2010, 10:04
"Deus Ex 47".

A combination of Deus Ex and Hitman? I'd buy it.

I think IO is currently working on the next installment in the Hitman series. Here's hoping that they branch out a bit more with the gameplay.

lithos
7th Sep 2010, 03:08
I think IO is currently working on the next installment in the Hitman series. Here's hoping that they branch out a bit more with the gameplay.

Apparently Hitman 5'll be the last in the series. Sad, but I'm also glad they're not milking it to death. NOTE: Kane & Lynch are not decent replacements for 47. 47, for me, has been one of the most interesting protagonists in a game. He's neither good nor evil.

He's just very, very good at what he does. And that's not even his fault.

Irate_Iguana
7th Sep 2010, 07:41
Apparently Hitman 5'll be the last in the series.

Fantastic. Either my favorite series get ****ty sequels and ****ty reboots or they are being canceled.

hem dazon 90
7th Sep 2010, 08:27
Fantastic. Either my favorite series get ****ty sequels and ****ty reboots or they are being canceled.

Would you rather it become the new sonic?

Dr_Bob
7th Sep 2010, 09:55
Would you rather it become the new sonic?

Hitman Racers for Wii.

hem dazon 90
7th Sep 2010, 10:01
Hitman Racers for Wii.

I has over 9,000 different tracks!

Irate_Iguana
7th Sep 2010, 10:10
Would you rather it become the new sonic?

Game five is coming up. It is actually game four seeing as how contracts was mostly a redone Codename 47. SA made the series and BM improved it. If 5 does expand on the gameplay that would make it actually the third improvement of the series. I think that there can be a few more sequels before it starts to decline. It is not as if the story is that important for a Hitman game so there should be no problems there.

xsamitt
7th Sep 2010, 12:11
Funny how I find most of us on this forum acting exactly as Warren challenged us to do. We demand, we want more, better, more complex, more walk, less talk, more substance, we want Deus Ex to be better than ever!

How deliciously ignored we are here even though we are trying to rise up to the challenge :|

I agree.....I think Warren Spector should have given this talk to all developers first.Lord knows we have tried.

Ilves
8th Sep 2010, 07:21
So the man known for scorning blandness and mediocrity and advocating player creativity and interactive virtual environments where actions and consequences matter, ends his keynote with showing 3 minutes of boring, clich├ęd run-of-the-mill vijogame style cutscene.

(Notice how he didn't have the balls to bemoan the coming Halo 72 like he did in his ET talks, but rather made it Deus Ex 47. Hah. :))

Dead-Eye
9th Sep 2010, 22:22
I agree with Warren. Anything he tells us is gold.