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Pretentious Old Man.
26th Aug 2010, 19:49
http://uk.pc.ign.com/articles/111/1116073p1.html

I'll update you on my opinion after I've read it.

Pretentious Old Man.
26th Aug 2010, 20:01
Summary:

Not a whole lot we didn't already know. Seems like Hacking is going to be fairly complex, which probably also means time consuming. However, I imagine that if you trick yourself out as much as possible, you'll make it really easy.

One good thing is that unlike DX1, Computers and console will be usable in real time, so you can now be interrupted or killed while using them.

One quote that you'll love from Dugas:


The good thing is that we're very stubborn.

No ****, Sherlock! :)

pha
26th Aug 2010, 20:06
The good thing is that we're very stubborn. [laughs] So, we listen – we consider a lot of things – but there are subjects that, when we make decisions, we know why we're making them; there's reasoning behind it and we're fully dedicated to that. Some might not understand those things or some other people in the industry might disagree, but this is what we believe and we move forward.

http://www.collider.com/wp-content/image-base/People/A/Arnold_Schwarzenegger/slice_arnold_schwarzenegger_terminator_smile.jpg

It would be good if you sometimes share that reasoning instead of making us talk to a brick wall.

*remembers the health pack backtracking argument*

You know what, forget it. Don't share your reasoning.

luminar
26th Aug 2010, 20:14
http://www.collider.com/wp-content/image-base/People/A/Arnold_Schwarzenegger/slice_arnold_schwarzenegger_terminator_smile.jpg

It would be good if you sometimes share that reasoning instead of making us talk to a brick wall.

*remembers the health pack backtracking argument*

You know what, forget it. Don't share your reasoning.

Regardless of how stupid their reasoning is I'd like to hear it.

Irate_Iguana
26th Aug 2010, 20:18
Regardless of how stupid their reasoning is I'd like to hear it.

Well, we did get the awesome "the industry as a whole has grown up" from their reasoning. I say lets hear it. Who knows what gems we can find?

pha
26th Aug 2010, 20:21
Regardless of how stupid their reasoning is I'd like to hear it.

Maybe for the humor value.

Pretentious Old Man.
26th Aug 2010, 20:28
Jvk7faxsxkQ

68_pie
26th Aug 2010, 20:30
some other people in the industry might disagree

referring to WS? ;)

Ashpolt
26th Aug 2010, 20:34
68_pie beat me to it, but I'm going to say it anyway:


So, we listen – we consider a lot of things – but there are subjects that, when we make decisions, we know why we're making them; there's reasoning behind it and we're fully dedicated to that. Some might not understand those things or some other people in the industry might disagree, but this is what we believe and we move forward.

SUBTLE, GUYS. SUBTLE LIKE MY ALL CAPS TYPING HERE AND UPCOMING USE OF A SMILEY: :D THERE WE GO!

But yeah, I agree that if they've really got reasons for not only introducing things like third person and regenerating health, but also from not giving the players the choice to disable them in a game that, in their own words, is all about choice and consequence - if they've really got reasons for that, then let's hear them. It's better than the silent treatment, and who knows? You might convince us.

Besides, I could use a laugh.

[EDIT] I also find it interesting that Dugas said that specifically in response to a question about focus testing - interesting considering a) we've got an official playtest thread on this very forum, and b) the design decisions that people are complaining about are pretty much "design by focus committee."

Pinky_Powers
26th Aug 2010, 20:35
referring to WS? ;)

That's what I got from it. ;)

Pretentious Old Man.
26th Aug 2010, 21:08
What does Warren Spector know about games design? Let's face it, Dugas's resume of Far Cry 2 and Rainbow Six Vegas is far more impressive.

Delever
26th Aug 2010, 21:17
Games are obviously team effort, and iterative process. No one really knows at the beginning how the game will look and play at the end. Warren Spector pushed for some things, other people argued for other things. For example, Gabe Newell tried the game and said that augmentations suck, so they added energy consumption for them.

nomotog
26th Aug 2010, 22:08
But yeah, I agree that if they've really got reasons for not only introducing things like third person and regenerating health, but also from not giving the players the choice to disable them in a game that, in their own words, is all about choice and consequence - if they've really got reasons for that, then let's hear them. It's better than the silent treatment, and who knows? You might convince us.




I'll take a stab at that. I doubt I can convince anyone, but it should be fun.


Why add regeneration health? Is it because every other game is doing it? Maybe a little it lets players pick up and play easier, but the real reason to is to make balancing combat easier and better. When you use regenerating heath you know exactly how many Hit points the player will have for a fight, so you can make the fight challenging with out being unfair. In DX you could enter the fight with anywhere from 20-400 (Depending on difficultly.) Hit points and who knows how many med-packs. A challenge to one player will totally destroy another well the third player well face a small bump in the road.

Why add a third person view. Best guess. They are totally stealing this idea from MGS. MGS stared out as a fully third-person game, but switches to first person for some things like vent cawing or gun play(In the latter games.) Adding third person to DX lets you throw out the silly peek-a-boo sneaking that plagues first person stealth. You know where you peek around the box where a guard is looking right at you, but he doesn't notice your not a rat for half a second.

Another bonus to including cover based shooting and cover based sneaking? You can use the same cover for both. This makes it harder to forget to add a sneaking option.

nomotog
26th Aug 2010, 22:10
... Miss-post nothing to see here... :whistle:

Pretentious Old Man.
26th Aug 2010, 22:36
... Miss-post nothing to see here... :whistle:

http://paganmedia.files.wordpress.com/2010/04/its-a-conspiracy.jpg

Dead-Eye
26th Aug 2010, 22:54
^^ I have a tin foil hat, I have been wearing it for a few days now. It does NOTHING.


What does Warren Spector know about games design? Let's face it, Dugas's resume of Far Cry 2 and Rainbow Six Vegas is far more impressive.

...sarcasm?

Also nomotog, I'm coming to believe you're one of the designers on the team.

Fluffis
26th Aug 2010, 22:56
Why add regeneration health? Is it because every other game is doing it? Maybe a little it lets players pick up and play easier, but the real reason to is to make balancing combat easier and better. When you use regenerating heath you know exactly how many Hit points the player will have for a fight, so you can make the fight challenging with out being unfair.

"It's always at a hundred percent. I like to stay prepared."


Ehm... How did this not get picked up:



IGN AU: The original game had a heavy undercurrent of black market Augs and illegal modifications. Can you talk a little bit about how that works – if at all – within the context of Human Revolution?


Do they even know what game they are interviewing about?

And furthermore, does Dugas know?



In this game, not as much – it's more looming; it's a new industry.


He actually answers as if IW was the original game... Geez...

phlebas
26th Aug 2010, 23:13
There still is a problem with auto health regen in that very predictability of the experience might prevent the players from trying new things within the game world. I'm neither for or against the regen system, just throwing some ideas out there.

By the way, did anyone else find the bit about unavoidable boss fights in the game little disappointing? I feel like they could have tried something new with the whole traditional boss-level mechanic.

Fluffis
26th Aug 2010, 23:36
By the way, did anyone else find the bit about unavoidable boss fights in the game little disappointing? I feel like they could have tried something new with the whole traditional boss-level mechanic.

Oh, people have been dukin' it out over that.

JackShandy
26th Aug 2010, 23:47
Good to hear some confirmation of your actions tying into the world in the first question, though. As well as the action route not being a cakewalk.

The stubborn quote was in answer to a question about focus groups, could just have easily been taken as saying "We won't dumb down our game for whiny play testers."

DeusWhatever
27th Aug 2010, 00:27
The problem is, yes the new health-system makes it easier to adjust the game, still it also takes fun out of the game, at least i really enjoy dragging my half dead character trhough games, it adds tension.

And i think there would have been a good compromise like regenerating shields with not regenerating health for each limb etc.

But i guess the healthpack-approach also needs a lot of planning.

Cronstintein
27th Aug 2010, 02:56
An interesting idea I had about making a frontal assault more interesting was to add an element of speed to it. So if you want to kick in the front door of a police station you better get out quick 'cause SWAT and all their nearby district buddies are going to be on their way.
Not so much a Game Over timer but if you aren't out in 10 min a couple squad cars of cops show up and start looking for you. 15-20, A couple swat snipers are now waiting on nearby rooftops and an assault squad is clearing the building. Stuff like that would make that direction more interesting and realistic (to me at least).

Pinky_Powers
27th Aug 2010, 03:34
An interesting idea I had about making a frontal assault more interesting was to add an element of speed to it. So if you want to kick in the front door of a police station you better get out quick 'cause SWAT and all their nearby district buddies are going to be on their way.
Not so much a Game Over timer but if you aren't out in 10 min a couple squad cars of cops show up and start looking for you. 15-20, A couple swat snipers are now waiting on nearby rooftops and an assault squad is clearing the building. Stuff like that would make that direction more interesting and realistic (to me at least).

Aye! I think it should work sorta like GTA, where slowly your wanted levels get up, until you've got choppers and tanks on you.

Well, maybe not tanks, but something along those lines. SWAT certainly.

Cronstintein
27th Aug 2010, 03:54
Mechs would be a suitably deusexy alternative to tanks ;)

Jerion
27th Aug 2010, 03:57
An interesting idea I had about making a frontal assault more interesting was to add an element of speed to it. So if you want to kick in the front door of a police station you better get out quick 'cause SWAT and all their nearby district buddies are going to be on their way.
Not so much a Game Over timer but if you aren't out in 10 min a couple squad cars of cops show up and start looking for you. 15-20, A couple swat snipers are now waiting on nearby rooftops and an assault squad is clearing the building. Stuff like that would make that direction more interesting and realistic (to me at least).

You know exactly how that's gonna go down...

http://www.foxaxe.com/obrazky/terminator-2-judgment-day-4.jpg

nomotog
27th Aug 2010, 04:30
^^ I have a tin foil hat, I have been wearing it for a few days now. It does NOTHING.



...sarcasm?

Also nomotog, I'm coming to believe you're one of the designers on the team.

Is that a good thing or a bad thing?

rokstrombo
27th Aug 2010, 05:11
It's good to hear that development is going well, and that the developers have acknowledged the faults with the animations that were noted here earlier.

Go Deus Ex!

MaxxQ1
27th Aug 2010, 07:07
What does Warren Spector know about games design? Let's face it, Dugas's resume of Far Cry 2 and Rainbow Six Vegas is far more impressive.

Wait! Dugas was involved with FC2? ****! I never completed that game because I got fed up with respawning guard posts and the gun(s) breaking every 20 rounds. Also, FC2 was pretty much everything I hate about total freeform sandbox games. I didn't like it in Morrowind, either, but at least I put more hours into *that* game than Far Cry 2.

I've never played any of the R6 games, so no opinion on R6V.

My hopes for DXHR just dwindled a bit...

After I uninstalled FC2, I started up a new game of Far Cry and had lots of fun.

Red
27th Aug 2010, 07:17
FC2 did first person PERFECTLY! Why not apply and expand it in DXHR? Nooo, gotta show the cool augs and cover and stuff. FU all. :)

Lrrpdude
27th Aug 2010, 07:28
Wait! Dugas was involved with FC2? ****! I never completed that game because I got fed up with respawning guard posts and the gun(s) breaking every 20 rounds. Also, FC2 was pretty much everything I hate about total freeform sandbox games. I didn't like it in Morrowind, either, but at least I put more hours into *that* game than Far Cry 2.

I've never played any of the R6 games, so no opinion on R6V.

My hopes for DXHR just dwindled a bit...

After I uninstalled FC2, I started up a new game of Far Cry and had lots of fun.

Wow... hard to believe that.

Isterio
27th Aug 2010, 09:03
It seems like they won't change anything anymore. They have finished the game and are just balancing from now on? So I guess the time for suggestions to the devs is officially over.

I'm quite concerned. It seems to be a console game. The whole cover system and health regeneration is just to make it more comfortable to play on consoles. Health down? You go behind cover, sipp some tea, talk to your friend and after you have full health, you continue playing. It is quite difficult to play shooters on consoles because of those nasty controllers ... brah! How about that for dumbing down?

Of course it's not that dramatic, but I think you get the idea behind my augmentation .. eh argumentation.


Now the story must kick a$$ or I can't forgive a possibly lame game engine.

El_Bel
27th Aug 2010, 10:26
Dugas did not work on FC2, but on Far Cry Instincts, a crappy console remake of the original, less open-ended and more linear.

Pretentious Old Man.
27th Aug 2010, 10:34
^^That's correct. It wasn't just instincts, though, I believe he worked on various spin-offs from FC2 as well, if not the actual game itself. In fact I'm not sure whether he was involved in that, just not in a "boss" type capacity.

Red
27th Aug 2010, 11:00
Doesn't change the fact that FC2 had awesome 1st person though.

AxiomaticBadger
27th Aug 2010, 12:22
Know what? I think regenerating health is fantastic. I am fed up of having to trawl around levels for 3 hours searching for medkits. It's simply bad gameplay. It Is Boring. With some games it got to the point that if you didn't have enough health or couldn't find a kit then you might as well just start from scratch. Yes, I am talking from personal experience.
The concept of using healthpacks is obsolete, and I for one will be glad to finally see it die.

And before anyone suggests it, I have never played any sort of shooter on a console, and most likely never will.

Red
27th Aug 2010, 12:35
With some games it got to the point that if you didn't have enough health or couldn't find a kit then you might as well just start from scratch

It's a challenge. You have to beat it. That's the whole point of being games and that's why they are called GAMES. Also some people like the exploration part, scouring for resources, managing them, facing situations presented before them in imperfect condition.

You suck at the game? Tough luck, play on easy difficulty. Why should other players suffer on account of an incopetent few like you?

Regeneration should be optional and that's it!

Screw all this "industry has grown as a whole" fad.

There, I gave some crumbs to this troll. All out of bread now.

Pretentious Old Man.
27th Aug 2010, 12:47
Know what? I think regenerating health is fantastic. I am fed up of having to trawl around levels for 3 hours searching for medkits. It's simply bad gameplay. It Is Boring. With some games it got to the point that if you didn't have enough health or couldn't find a kit then you might as well just start from scratch. Yes, I am talking from personal experience.
The concept of using healthpacks is obsolete, and I for one will be glad to finally see it die.

And before anyone suggests it, I have never played any sort of shooter on a console, and most likely never will.

If you don't have enough health, it's your own fault. It's like saying that dying is bad gameplay, because it forces you to restart.

Fluffis
27th Aug 2010, 12:53
All this:


I am fed up of having to trawl around levels for 3 hours searching for medkits.




It Is Boring.




The concept of using healthpacks is obsolete, and I for one will be glad to finally see it die.


And then there's this:



It's simply bad gameplay.


It's not the game that's at fault here. It's you.

bukkit
27th Aug 2010, 13:08
Know what? I think regenerating health is fantastic. I am fed up of having to trawl around levels for 3 hours searching for medkits. It's simply bad gameplay. It Is Boring. With some games it got to the point that if you didn't have enough health or couldn't find a kit then you might as well just start from scratch. Yes, I am talking from personal experience.
The concept of using healthpacks is obsolete, and I for one will be glad to finally see it die.

And before anyone suggests it, I have never played any sort of shooter on a console, and most likely never will.

if i was in charge ... no health regeneration, no medkits, smart level design.
be carefull or die. stealth would be the way to go, not just a 3rd person cover shooter (worst gaming genre EVER)

Red
27th Aug 2010, 13:10
I knew other people still had bread in stock for our little troll :D

avenging_teabag
27th Aug 2010, 13:11
Do they even know what game they are interviewing about?

And furthermore, does Dugas know?
How could he corrected the journo's mistake without sounding like an *******? Cut the guy some break already. Jesus Christ.


And we build the levels in such a way that, if you have this or that augmentation, it can be helpful – but it's not mandatory, and it doesn't make the boss fight hellish or whatnot.

We're making sure that players – with their own playing style and the choices they make – aren't penalized for those choke-point moments.
Make it happen, guys.

AxiomaticBadger
27th Aug 2010, 13:18
Yeees. How dare I want to play a game because of an facinating setting, interesting characters or a compelling story! I should want to grind like a coffee machine on LSD!

Dying isn't bad gameplay. Making me stop playing till I have enough X is bad gameplay.

bukkit
27th Aug 2010, 13:26
Yeees. How dare I want to play a game because of an facinating setting, interesting characters or a compelling story!

you mean something like deus ex 1? autoheal is pretty much ruining the gameplay
...take mafia 2 for example, it plays like a freaking modern warfare some times : 'aw crap, they shot me bad! well, im gona hide in my cover for few seconds and im good to go, ready to kill everyone and pretty much immortal'

edit: but youre also right, that big medkit boxes all around are obsolete. i would love to see the new DE:HR without any of these options.
cmon DEVS... how hard would be to put an option for autoheal off in the game ?

avenging_teabag
27th Aug 2010, 13:30
^ I never thought DH was grindy, at least after I got a firm hold of game mechanics (and I'm a pretty bad FPS player tbh). Some chosen fights were frustrating, but that's it.

DeusWhatever
27th Aug 2010, 13:31
Yeees. How dare I want to play a game because of an facinating setting, interesting characters or a compelling story! I should want to grind like a coffee machine on LSD!

Dying isn't bad gameplay. Making me stop playing till I have enough X is bad gameplay.

Honestly? Watch a movie ... (your description fits perfectly on movies, not on games)

And as other said the problem is you, if you have problems with helath and finding healthpacks to beat the game, it simply means you chose the worng difficulcy setting. And it most likely also means your playstyle didnt fit the game (i guess you were to offensive).

But a question:
Maybe its just me, but i think its a great feeling when your almost dead, dragging your half dead body too the end of the level, afraid to die on every edge where an enemy could wait.

@the Game
I'm at a point right now, where i believe i wont even consider too buy the game without a demo. Its not that im 100% shure the game will be bad, but lets take it this way, i have been "fooled" by false promises quite often lately in gaming, and my main problem is, the "features" that were introduced until now were always executed poorly so the chances of DX:HR to be the game that changes this is not very high.

But if some dev. really reads this, i wonder if there will be a demo, and if not, i would want to know if steam doesnt offer systems like "limited playtime" etc. for demo purposes?

Khaeru
27th Aug 2010, 13:32
medpacks are more believable than health regeneration, but the real problem is how devs use these two systems: if they go for medpacks, you are going to lose time searching for tons of them and everywhere, even where they are not supposed to be. On the other side, health regeneration prevents the game from being "slow" but is also makes game experience less believable and less challenging.
Maybe levels sould be structured in a way Adam can afford only a limited amount of damage making the game stealth based, while the player is allowed to go berserk only by hacking a mecha or some enemy.Because If Adam will be some kind of "Rambo" himself, all enemies will have to be dumb in a really bad way to let the player win. sry for my english




uh, someone already thinked about it..

bukkit
27th Aug 2010, 13:39
medpacks are more believable than health regeneration, but the real problem is how devs use these two systems: if they go for medpacks, you are going to lose time searching for tons of them and everywhere, even where they are not supposed to be. On the other side, health regeneration prevents the game from being "slow" but is also makes game experience less believable and challenging.
Maybe levels sould be structured in a way Adam can afford only a limited amount of damage making the game stealth based, while the player is allowed to go berserk only by hacking a mecha or some enemy.Because If Adam will be some kind of "Rambo" himself, all enemies will have to be dumb in a really bad way to let the player win. sry for my english

or combining the two together would be nice. you would be able to regain your health, but only to certain amount (you take a 50% damage - 15% would heal). and also it would be energy based. like in DE1. so no energy, no autoheal - youll have to go and find some resources of energy (something more likely to lay around than medkits). cause the autoheal in todays games is a horrible gameplay element. it litteraly makes you immortal. you can take 95% damage shot, hide for a while and heal, take another devastating injury, wait till it heals again, and so on. wheres the challange ?

xsamitt
27th Aug 2010, 13:41
you mean something like deus ex 1? autoheal is pretty much ruining the gameplay
...take mafia 2 for example, it plays like a freaking modern warfare some times : 'aw crap, they shot me bad! well, im gona hide in my cover for few seconds and im good to go, ready to kill everyone and pretty much immortal'

edit: but youre also right, that big medkit boxes all around are obsolete. i would love to see the new DE:HR without any of these options.
cmon DEVS... how hard would be to put an option for autoheal off in the game ?

You may be young but your right.

Khaeru
27th Aug 2010, 13:42
combinig the 2 things would be cool :), but i think someone is going to complaing about it anyway: those who will spam medpacks and say "it's unrealistic" and those who cant handle them, pad users. Unfortunatly there are no rooms for meds in the control scheme of the incoming DE

avenging_teabag
27th Aug 2010, 13:42
On the other side, health regeneration prevents the game from being "slow" but is also makes game experience less believable and less challenging.
Not necessarily. The Witcher, for example, had auto health regen, but it was v-e-r-y s-l-o-w. You could take potions to speed it up, but they poisoned you - drink three in a row, and you're dead. Yes, TW did become stupidly easy about halfway through, but that was due to some poorly thought-out game mechanics, not health regen. It's all in the execution. We don't know how it will be implemented in HR.

Khaeru
27th Aug 2010, 13:45
i never played the witcher but DEHR got a cover system and being stuck in one point would make things slow, so i guess health regen in the next DE will be fast

avenging_teabag
27th Aug 2010, 13:49
^I believe they said health regen won't work while in battle.

[tool question]Or does being in cover not count as being in battle[/tool question]

Khaeru
27th Aug 2010, 13:51
what's the point of haveing Health Regeneration if it won't work in battle?:| i'll go check the leaked demo

avenging_teabag
27th Aug 2010, 13:56
^ I might have dreamt it up? Can't seem to find a quote :(

Fluffis
27th Aug 2010, 13:57
How could he corrected the journo's mistake without sounding like an *******? Cut the guy some break already. Jesus Christ.


Four simple words: "In 'Invisible War', yes."

Honestly, if a computer gaming "journalist" doesn't know that Invisible War wasn't the first game in the series, when he's doing an interview about that very series, he deserves to be humiliated, because it means that the "journalist" is crap at his job.

xsamitt
27th Aug 2010, 14:12
Four simple words: "In 'Invisible War', yes."

Honestly, if a computer gaming "journalist" doesn't know that Invisible War wasn't the first game in the series, when he's doing an interview about that very series, he deserves to be humiliated, because it means that the "journalist" is crap at his job.


LOl......I can't imagine being that uninformed.If it's your job then you should know.I agree.

AxiomaticBadger
27th Aug 2010, 14:47
Honestly? Watch a movie ... (your description fits perfectly on movies, not on games)
Not really true. At least, not any more.
Pretty much every game I own I bought because I was interested in the story behind the game, not the gameplay in itself. Deus Ex I played through, and enjoyed, but the health pack system was something I tolerated simply because at that point there wasn't an alternative.



And as other said the problem is you, if you have problems with helath and finding healthpacks to beat the game, it simply means you chose the wrong difficulcy setting. And it most likely also means your playstyle didnt fit the game (i guess you were to offensive).
Dude, I was Sneaky McSneakerton, Lord of Sneaking. However, if I, for example, misjudged a leap, or missed a guard it would inevitably result in a napalm enema tearing me limb from limb, which would lead yet another 10 minute incredibly boring break from gameplay restocking my kits.


But a question:
Maybe its just me, but i think its a great feeling when your almost dead, dragging your half dead body too the end of the level, afraid to die on every edge where an enemy could wait.
I call it "The Feeling of Failure".

avenging_teabag
27th Aug 2010, 15:03
Four simple words: "In 'Invisible War', yes."

Honestly, if a computer gaming "journalist" doesn't know that Invisible War wasn't the first game in the series, when he's doing an interview about that very series, he deserves to be humiliated, because it means that the "journalist" is crap at his job.
Geez you're bloodthirsty. Just cut the guy some slack, think about something pleasant :p

Fluffis
27th Aug 2010, 15:12
Geez you're bloodthirsty.


No, I just don't think incompetence is a good trait.



Just cut the guy some slack, think about something pleasant :p

I am... His "chestnuts" roasting on an open fire.

Khaeru
27th Aug 2010, 15:19
^I believe they said health regen won't work while in battle.

[tool question]Or does being in cover not count as being in battle[/tool question]

i watched the video from 6:38, it seems that unless Adam takes huge damage (therefore you have to get cover) the player is able to move around like nothing is happening. Which is believable, being a last-gen cyborg and all...still, the game is easy

http://www.megavideo.com/?v=4O7K7HQV


^ I might have dreamt it up? Can't seem to find a quote
nha i've read that too but i can't find a quote as well :/

nomotog
27th Aug 2010, 17:22
i watched the video from 6:38, it seems that unless Adam takes huge damage (therefore you have to get cover) the player is able to move around like nothing is happening. Which is believable, being a last-gen cyborg and all...still, the game is easy

http://www.megavideo.com/?v=4O7K7HQV


nha i've read that too but i can't find a quote as well :/

As i understand it. All the game-play demos have been done with god mode on, so you can't gauge how hard it is.

Now to all of you who where mean. Be nice just because someone has a different idea doesn't make them a troll. To all of you who are nice. Keep on trucking :).


Med-pack health is not obsolete yet lots of games still use it. Bioshock, Half-life, F.E.A.R. all use med-kits.

Pinky_Powers
27th Aug 2010, 17:45
i watched the video from 6:38, it seems that unless Adam takes huge damage (therefore you have to get cover) the player is able to move around like nothing is happening. Which is believable, being a last-gen cyborg and all...still, the game is easy

http://www.megavideo.com/?v=4O7K7HQV

If you use Godmode Cheat like they do on these gameplay demos, then yes, Human revolution will be very easy. But that can be said for any game.

According the those who have seen the latest Three-Run Police Station demo, the HUD is up and running and you can actually see the health meter get blown away every quick and easy. The demoer "died" a number of times they say on the balls-out run. But due to Godmode, he really didn't.

Pinky_Powers
27th Aug 2010, 17:52
Med-pack health is not obsolete yet lots of games still use it. Bioshock, Half-life, F.E.A.R. all use med-kits.

I remember watching a Dev-diary for FEAR2 a few months from release, and they were giving their reasons for moving to Auto Regenerating Health. Basically, the same thing EM are saying now. But by the time the game hit shelves, they had abandoned that and returned to the Health Pack system. :)

Personally, if the Regen is slow enough (and I know they are still balancing that out), I think the system could make the game even more challenging, tense and engaging.

Play it on Realistic Mode and perhaps it'll draw it out even more. ...I hope.

WildcatPhoenix
27th Aug 2010, 18:16
According the those who have seen the latest Three-Run Police Station demo, the HUD is up and running and you can actually see the health meter get blown away very quick and easy.

Reading this just makes my heart hurt for the lost complexity of location-based damage. Beating a dead and decomposed horse, I know, but still....

Health meters. Bah.

Cronstintein
27th Aug 2010, 18:29
Oh the health HUD was up on that demo? How fast did it refill? I guess it's still being tweaked but if it goes down really fast my money's on it coming back up fast :/

EDIT ^^ I feel your pain, I was shocked to find they removed that awesome feature.

nomotog
27th Aug 2010, 18:53
I have been wondering, why are people so attached to limb damage. I played DX on PS2, so there was no limb damage and I did not miss it or see a reason to have it.

Pinky_Powers
27th Aug 2010, 18:57
Oh the health HUD was up on that demo? How fast did it refill? I guess it's still being tweaked but if it goes down really fast my money's on it coming back up fast :/



The time required for health to restore is really low, so it looked hard to play just gun blazing


...this is quite the contradicting statement, but I think he means it restores slowly. Either that or he's an idiot.

Pinky_Powers
27th Aug 2010, 18:58
I have been wondering, why are people so attached to limb damage. I played DX on PS2, so there was no limb damage and I did not miss it or see a reason to have it.

You cannot miss something you've never known.

WildcatPhoenix
27th Aug 2010, 20:36
I have been wondering, why are people so attached to limb damage. I played DX on PS2, so there was no limb damage and I did not miss it or see a reason to have it.

For me, some of the most intense moments in the game involved me dragging my legless torso around (usually due to an enemy LAM and/or my profound ability to forget to crouch before tossing a TNT crate!) in an attempt to escape. Also, shooting an enemy in his weapon arm and watching him drop the gun and run away was very rewarding.

This was something I hoped to see expanded upon in any potential sequel (for example, an option to select whether your character is right or left-handed, which would have an effect on accuracy if the weapon arm were too damaged). Sadly, it looks like DXHR has gone in the opposite direction, resorting to the same generic health bar we've seen in a million other shooters.

pha
27th Aug 2010, 21:24
I have been wondering, why are people so attached to limb damage. I played DX on PS2, so there was no limb damage and I did not miss it or see a reason to have it.

Trying to survive while you're injured is a game within the game. In fact it's a better and more relevant minigame than the terrible "play Tetris for 10 seconds to hack an ATM" minigame trend we're getting accustomed to.

A complicated system with specific consequences for getting shot in each body part beats the plain health bar or the bloody screen edges any time. Shot on the arm you can't aim, shot on the leg you can't run, shot on the head you can't think. And it's common knowledge that if you can't think in Deus Ex you're dead.:D

Let me give another example, having positional damage is one of the few things which made Fallout 3 bearable for me (gameplay-wise) and it perfectly fits its post-apocalyptic, pessimistic, "I'm a 19 year old naïve kid and I must survive in this hell hole, I'll drink from toilets or eat rotting corpses if I must" setting. Especially after I started playing it with some mods which improved the crippling effects and toned down healing effects.

pringlepower
28th Aug 2010, 00:05
Trying to survive while you're injured is a game within the game. In fact it's a better and more relevant minigame than the terrible "play Tetris for 10 seconds to hack an ATM" minigame trend we're getting accustomed to.

A complicated system with specific consequences for getting shot in each body part beats the plain health bar or the bloody screen edges any time. Shot on the arm you can't aim, shot on the leg you can't run, shot on the head you can't think. And it's common knowledge that if you can't think in Deus Ex you're dead.:D

Let me give another example, having positional damage is one of the few things which made Fallout 3 bearable for me (gameplay-wise) and it perfectly fits its post-apocalyptic, pessimistic, "I'm a 19 year old naïve kid and I must survive in this hell hole, I'll drink from toilets or eat rotting corpses if I must" setting. Especially after I started playing it with some mods which improved the crippling effects and toned down healing effects.

I forget, does getting a crippled arm make you drop two-handed weapons or sway? It's been a while since I've played DX.

New Vegas hardcore mode is for you!

Cronstintein
28th Aug 2010, 00:19
ooh hardcore mode? So those of us with crap computers and thus forced to console can have this goodness? I like it!

pha
28th Aug 2010, 00:31
I forget, does getting a crippled arm make you drop two-handed weapons or sway? It's been a while since I've played DX.

I don't remember, sadly. When I'm hurt, my arms have top healing priority and their HP is always at %100. I like to stay prepared like this guy here:

http://media.giantbomb.com/uploads/1/17444/778235-waltonsimons_thumb.jpg

pringlepower
28th Aug 2010, 03:23
ooh hardcore mode? So those of us with crap computers and thus forced to console can have this goodness? I like it!

Yes, added by Obsidian, hardcore mode includes:
need to:
-drink water or die
-eat food or die
-sleep regularly or die
-heal crippled things only with doctor's tools, not magic stimpacks
-ammo and guns have weight

and some other things

Cronstintein
28th Aug 2010, 04:26
As long as the timers are reasonable, I like all of those...
This is the first news that actually makes me want to grab this game. The last one was good but the VATS got old, might play this one vats-free.

pringlepower
28th Aug 2010, 05:04
As long as the timers are reasonable, I like all of those...
This is the first news that actually makes me want to grab this game. The last one was good but the VATS got old, might play this one vats-free.

You can also wear a fedora, pinstripe suit, and fire a laser cannon/tommy gun. Can Adam Jensen do that?

Abram730
28th Aug 2010, 14:57
Not necessarily. The Witcher, for example, had auto health regen, but it was v-e-r-y s-l-o-w. You could take potions to speed it up, but they poisoned you - drink three in a row, and you're dead. Yes, TW did become stupidly easy about halfway through, but that was due to some poorly thought-out game mechanics, not health regen. It's all in the execution. We don't know how it will be implemented in HR.

I noticed a few people say that dues ex 1 and the witcher were there favorite games.. so I got it on steam... I'm really liking it.

I was going to post about the witcher's health system... lol echo. echo.. echo... why only see 2 options for health systems?

It was refreshing not to have rapid instahealth, a departure from all the cookie cutter games. V.e.r.y s.l.o.w health regen... Like 30 min to heal.. There were 2 potions to heal with, one instant and one vitality over time.. There was also magic that could heal you, also vitality over time. Toxins limited potion use, and food was available to heal over time, some food items stacked, although it was also slow. You could rest at a camp fire to heal and lower toxins.. toxins lasted hours in your system.. Almost everything in the game had a sign path, potion, and skill attached... potions helped fill in holes in your build, but use was limited by toxicity.. There were healing skills to raise regen... but even with everything stacked you still healed slowly...

It used the flat acting trick that DX used.. in that flat acting is better then bad acting as players will often ad the tonality in their imagination, but wrong tonality will stand out more.

I'll also add that the dev team on The Witcher 2 are saying some of the same things as EM... being able to go threw without killing people(except bosses), multiple paths, stealth, ext.. PC exclusive(cough, cough)...

2011 is looking like a good year for games :)
PS: DX is still my fav....