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Rindill the Red
24th Aug 2010, 01:26
“When we replayed the first two games we noticed that the augmentations are the stars of the show..." -- David Anfossi, http://www.nowgamer.com/news/4080/gamescom-2010-deus-ex-team-answers-spector-query

Do we agree or disagree with this statement?

Because augmentations are the stars of the show, he concludes that, "... it would be nice to allow the player, when he decides to upgrade his character for takedowns or punching through walls, to show him that happening on screen making it more spectacular and giving him a reward."

And because they are making ugrades spectacular rewards, they "...were able to introduce the cover system too.”

So, it seems to me that the entire 3rd person mechanic was based around their assumption that Deus Ex and IW revolved around the augmentations, that they can make the game better by making the augmentations more spectacular in appearance, and that players of Deus Ex want and need rewards for playing the game.

His wording is also equally troubling to me....

"stars of the show" -- If they considered Deus Ex and IW like "shows" then that would explain why they are desperately attempting to turn DX:HR into a movie. Did they actually "play the games" or did they just watch them?

"making it more spectacular" -- dramatic: sensational in appearance or thrilling in effect -- While sensational and thrilling moments can create initial mass appeal through feelings of excitement and amplified emotional energy... "Many stimuli that one is at first neutral to, or even finds pleasant, can turn into annoyances from repeated continued exposure." Also, there is another psychological principle called tolerance... which reduces the effects of repeated stimuli.
-- Deus Ex was not spectacular in appearance (which is a rather cheap and short-lived form of thrill easily surpassed by the next generations of technology), but spectacular in its story and gameplay. The most thrilling moments had nothing to do with the visuals at all but with the character interacting with the game world. (Maggie Chow's apartment, first meeting with Daedalus and Icarus, death of Paul and/or seeing his dead body, breaking out of UNATCO) I will advance that this is the spectacularness which DX:HR should be "making more spectacular".
-- The "spectacularness" of the augmentations was the way they could be used alone or in conjunction with the game environment to advance towards goals as well as their inherent science-fiction awesomeness, NOT how someone would look while using them.

"giving him a reward" -- If a game is so dull that the only way to get someone to play is by giving him a reward... :scratch:
-- Video games should be their own rewards... intrinsically interesting... though provoking... immersive and engaging... skill-building...

"...were able to introduce the cover system too.” -- Is it just me or does it sound like the third person take-downs (augmentation use) was just an excuse to implement a third person cover (as if they needed an excuse to do anything).

I have this to say about the augmentations... they were NOT the main point of playing either Deus Ex game... though I could see why one might think that about IW because it had little else going for it. The augmentations were important to the game only in their relationship to the science fiction setting, the character advancement (RPG), and the way they created intelligent, creative, and engaging gameplay.

What do others think?

ArcR
24th Aug 2010, 01:44
Your thread has given me some pause. I've never thought to play DX without installing an augmentation. This could be the beginning of a new challenge. Cheers!

Cronstintein
24th Aug 2010, 01:52
I would expect that 'stars of the show' = 'most marketable aspect' and all should be clear.

Fluffis
24th Aug 2010, 02:04
Considering that I very rarely use any augmentations, apart from the very first playthrough, I'd like to add my resounding "MAYBE!"

In a way, they are the stars since the plot revolves around human alteration, to a fairly large extent. In another way, they were not needed - in a pure gameplay respect. You can get through the whole game without even touching the hotkeys for them.

I'm inclined to not think of them as the stars, though. They are a great plot point, but seeing as I never needed to use them myself, they are relegated to a small twinkle in Bob Page's eyes.

luminar
24th Aug 2010, 02:57
I voted no since I rarely used augmentations opting to save them for when I needed them, which was rare. They mainly allowed me to play around and come up with creative ways to pass an area. The skill's, weapon mods, hacked security and dialogue were my weapons!

Nyysjan
24th Aug 2010, 03:39
Augs were fun, usefull and effective, but hardly stars of the show, you could easily just skip using them and have no trouble with any part of the game (altough there was more challenge).

Heck, from my point of view skills were more important.

Kodaemon
24th Aug 2010, 03:57
I would expect that 'stars of the show' = 'most marketable aspect' and all should be clear.

This. And it reveals EM's catastrophic approach to DX. Instead of looking at the game as a whole, they focus on marketable gimmicks and thus fail to reproduce the true "bigger than the sum of it's parts" DX experience.

nomotog
24th Aug 2010, 04:22
I think this might be a thread to complain about the 3D take downs, but I'll go ahead and post about what you asked. Where augmentations are the stars of the show?

In my experience they weren't (At least game play wise). I used them now and then, but the energy limit kept me from really using them (Except that one play threw when I slotted myself with the energy reduction ague then i used them all the time.).

Now the funny thing is that the augments played a huge role in the story. Bob page was going to use them to become a god, Almost all of the bosses where augmented, and the main character was born to use augments even. You would be hard pressed to find a character who is not related to augments.

Rindill the Red
24th Aug 2010, 07:46
I think this might be a thread to complain about the 3D take downs, but I'll go ahead and post about what you asked. Where augmentations are the stars of the show?

In my experience they weren't (At least game play wise). I used them now and then, but the energy limit kept me from really using them (Except that one play threw when I slotted myself with the energy reduction ague then i used them all the time.).

Now the funny thing is that the augments played a huge role in the story. Bob page was going to use them to become a god, Almost all of the bosses where augmented, and the main character was born to use augments even. You would be hard pressed to find a character who is not related to augments.

The thread isn't a rail against third person takedowns, If they work, they work, might be fun. What it is, is a complaint about what seems important to the developers, and how Anfossi and any other person included in his "we" seem to have missed the point about the use of augmentations in the Deus Ex game. As a part of character development, gameplay, and science-fiction setting, yes they are important, but not as flashy "rewards".


I would expect that 'stars of the show' = 'most marketable aspect' and all should be clear.

This is exactly what I'm talking about.

The most marketable aspect of a Deus Ex game should not be flashy augmentation use, but its elevation of video games to an artform.

The virtue of video games is interaction.

Kodaemon
24th Aug 2010, 08:06
Good point from TTLG:


I'm not sure I get the artistic direction of the game. When I heard in the trailer things like "I never asked for this" or "I never had a choice of what happened to me", maybe because of the overall dark atmosphere, as well as a few comments I read before, I kind of assumed that augmentations were more or less a necessary evil. But on the other hand, it looks like the game is clearly presenting augmentations as "cool" and as a "reward" to the player. Which is the correct interpretation

mad825
24th Aug 2010, 08:25
Seems rather off-topic to me.
the game itself is going to question the use of Augments however what is being talked about are the gameplay elements.

Making the Augments look cosmetically good to change the user's opinion on the use of Augments would rather lame imo

Xenoc
24th Aug 2010, 08:38
Rarely used the augs so...

Ashpolt
24th Aug 2010, 09:04
Definitely don't agree that the augs were the stars of the show. In fact, to be perfectly honest, if they weren't an integral part of the storyline I'd say could almost have cut them out entirely and the game wouldn't have suffered for it much, gameplay-wise. Sure, they added an extra layer of depth - and I'm all for that - but that's what they were: an added layer rather than a crucial one. At least from a gameplay perspective: as mentioned, they were vital for the story.

With the above in mind though, it throws into question even more EM's claim that they spent time defining the "core" elements of Deus Ex. I'm against this idea of keeping the "core" (and hence, stripping out the "non-core" elements") anyway, but if augs are what they've identified as the real core, then I'm even more worried.

Again, I'm absolutely not saying augs aren't important to a Deus Ex game - they are - but they're certainly not the "stars of the show" and shouldn't be treated as such. More evidence, if any were needed, that EM are going for flashiness and spectacle rather than the depth and richness (and frequent slow pace) that really made Deus Ex - at least for me. If Deus Ex was like reading Neuromancer, I fear DXHR will be more akin to someone waving a bunch of keys at me and shouting "LOOK AT THE SHINY SHINY!"

Red
24th Aug 2010, 09:17
"Deus Ex was kinda slow, HR wil be COOL!!" -Dugas

luminar
24th Aug 2010, 16:31
"Deus Ex was kinda slow, HR wil be COOL!!" -Dugas

Is that a real quote? Please say no!

Pretentious Old Man.
24th Aug 2010, 16:50
I'd even go so far as to say that the Skill Point system was MUCH more important than the aug system in Deus Ex 1.

Fluffis
24th Aug 2010, 17:14
I'd even go so far as to say that the Skill Point system was MUCH more important than the aug system in Deus Ex 1.

It was far more important, yes.

Cronstintein
24th Aug 2010, 17:18
Yeah, that was a huge gripe for me from IW:
Why do people remove things from good games and think that's going to make it better? :shake head:

luminar
24th Aug 2010, 17:19
Yeah, that was a huge gripe for me from IW:
Why do people remove things from good games and think that's going to make it better? :shake head:

Exactly, if it worked in the first game don't take it out! Add new features to the game don't take out the goods!

Pretentious Old Man.
24th Aug 2010, 17:36
There is an expectation in the industry that console players can only take a few competing systems before starting to forget them. This is true for some 12 year olds, but not true for the other few millions.

DeusWhatever
24th Aug 2010, 18:43
Ermh, i just googeled the quote, i now have to say, this "lead-designer" is an epic failure at his current job it seems:

http://n4g.com/news/219734/deus-ex-was-andquot-kinda-slowandquot-says-deus-ex-3-dev


Dugas says the original Deus Ex was “kind of slow”. He added, “There weren’t enough exciting, memorable moments. It was aimed more towards a simulation rather than a game experience.”

This guy is joking, right?!?!

Angel-A
24th Aug 2010, 19:33
This thread made me sad.
:(

Ilves
24th Aug 2010, 19:42
Hating on EM for pimping out the augmentations is unreasonable on so many levels. Mostly on a creative one. You can't possibly hand over the DX source material to a bunch of visual artists and tell them not to go crazy on the augs.

Angel-A
24th Aug 2010, 19:52
Hating on EM for pimping out the augmentations is unreasonable on so many levels. Mostly on a creative one. You can't possibly hand over the DX source material to a bunch of visual artists and tell them not to go crazy on the augs.
Pretty sure augs and being augmented and finding augs and augmented people being in the game were very signifigant in DX's gameplay and plot.

And aren't augmentations central to HR's story?

DeusWhatever
24th Aug 2010, 20:02
Pretty sure augs and being augmented and finding augs and augmented people being in the game were very signifigant in DX's gameplay and plot.

And aren't augmentations central to HR's story?

Its about the tech and philosophical aspects, if the gameplay is about augs, then deus ex will be a random sequence of cinematic takedowns in third person with dialogues in between? :nut:

Fluffis
24th Aug 2010, 20:59
And aren't augmentations central to HR's story?

What I was lead to believe, was that there would be a "Pros/Cons" scenario about the whole thing. Once I heard that to actually get better in the game, you have to use augmentations, well... It feels like all that got shot to hell.

It does, however, seem to be that they have decided that augmentations are the be-all and end-all of Deus Ex, so yes: they are central to the story of HR.

3nails4you
24th Aug 2010, 21:07
I can't recall a time in the past five years that I HAVE used an aug. It's actually pretty fun and challenging without them, but having them can be great, too. The only one I really EVER use is the jumping/fast running aug, which I use to jump to cool places :P I think that game designers should keep in mind that it should be possible, if more difficult, to complete the game without and augmentations (minus the arms, obviously), but on other playthroughs, a crazy amount of awesome augs could also make it a lot more fun.

Pinky_Powers
24th Aug 2010, 22:14
This thread has soured my stomach some. :(

Rindill the Red
25th Aug 2010, 01:50
Ermh, i just googeled the quote, i now have to say, this "lead-designer" is an epic failure at his current job it seems:

http://n4g.com/news/219734/deus-ex-w...-deus-ex-3-dev


Quote:
Dugas says the original Deus Ex was “kind of slow”. He added, “There weren’t enough exciting, memorable moments. It was aimed more towards a simulation rather than a game experience.”


This just made me cry. No, I am like seriously shedding tears right now... in real life... it's pathetic, but... oh my god, my faith in mankind is destroyed.

[EDIT]
Okay, this has just strengthened my resolve. We need to go through with the Senex Deus plan... those of you know who you are, we need to move forward with the planning phase.

Marses
25th Aug 2010, 03:22
When I played through doing a run as a shooter, they definitely were. When I was predominantly a sneaker, my own ingenuity trumped the augmentations.

avenging_teabag
25th Aug 2010, 06:30
What I was lead to believe, was that there would be a "Pros/Cons" scenario about the whole thing. Once I heard that to actually get better in the game, you have to use augmentations, well... It feels like all that got shot to hell.

Wait.

Do we actually know that FOR A FACT? Cause if we do (have you got a link? A quote? Something?), that would suck unspeakably. Game shoehorning me into a specific playstyle = Do. Not. Want.

Fluffis
25th Aug 2010, 09:17
Wait.

Do we actually know that FOR A FACT? Cause if we do (have you got a link? A quote? Something?), that would suck unspeakably. Game shoehorning me into a specific playstyle = Do. Not. Want.

Oh, you can probably play without augmenting, but if you actually want to enhance your character (i.e. get better at anything) you have to augment yourself. Otherwise, you'll be stuck at the level you are in the beginning. An something tells me that there will be an increase in difficulty, the longer the game runs; effectively (if not in fact) forcing you to augment in order to manage.

APostLife
25th Aug 2010, 09:30
Its about the tech and philosophical aspects, if the gameplay is about augs, then deus ex will be a random sequence of cinematic takedowns in third person with dialogues in between? :nut:

Yes, its not about the actual weapons and technology the player gets to use. I found DX so interesting and attractive was because of the story, ideas and characters involved as a whole. Basically without the chars of DX or even near reference to them, its not DX for me.

mad_red
25th Aug 2010, 11:27
To me, Gray Death has always been the star of the show. JC wasn't the star, nor his augmentations, nor were the Illuminati, NSF or any other group. It's been a while since I last played, but the way I understood it was that Gray Death wasn't and ordinary disease, it was nanotechnological. The fact that it was nano didn't seem very significant until - I'm a bit hazy on this - it turns out that Helios was only able to interface with the rest of humanity through Gray Death.

In other words, the star is the premise that nanotech is a bridge between mind and matter, a pathway to both divine power and the human soul.

The augmentations? Branches on the tree, curiosities and handy tools. Cool and useful, but they can't keep me glued to the screen. Besides let's not forget all the other stars that were already mentioned (story, skills, etc).

@Rindill LOL senex deus.... a bunch of pretentious old men playing at running the world...

Great thread btw.

avenging_teabag
25th Aug 2010, 12:40
Oh, you can probably play without augmenting, but if you actually want to enhance your character (i.e. get better at anything) you have to augment yourself. Otherwise, you'll be stuck at the level you are in the beginning. An something tells me that there will be an increase in difficulty, the longer the game runs; effectively (if not in fact) forcing you to augment in order to manage.
This is my biggest fear, but maybe weapon upgrades and level design will mitigate it somehow *clings to hope*.

Ilves
25th Aug 2010, 12:48
In other words, the star is the premise that nanotech is a bridge between mind and matter, a pathway to both divine power and the human soul.

For me nanotech being absent from HR as this ethereal element is a handicap from the get go. Now the theme of transhumanism is going to be limited to the physical, while DX managed to tap into the transcendent, which made it so very overwhelming if you really thought about the implications of the final choices.


An something tells me that there will be an increase in difficulty, the longer the game runs; effectively (if not in fact) forcing you to augment in order to manage.

If the themes of transhumanism (altered vs 'pure') are presented engagingly enough, struggling through the entire game (if possible) while refusing to upgrade beyond the initial getup could make for great moments of epic.

nomotog
25th Aug 2010, 16:53
To me, Gray Death has always been the star of the show. JC wasn't the star, nor his augmentations, nor were the Illuminati, NSF or any other group. It's been a while since I last played, but the way I understood it was that Gray Death wasn't and ordinary disease, it was nanotechnological. The fact that it was nano didn't seem very significant until - I'm a bit hazy on this - it turns out that Helios was only able to interface with the rest of humanity through Gray Death.

In other words, the star is the premise that nanotech is a bridge between mind and matter, a pathway to both divine power and the human soul.

The augmentations? Branches on the tree, curiosities and handy tools. Cool and useful, but they can't keep me glued to the screen. Besides let's not forget all the other stars that were already mentioned (story, skills, etc).

@Rindill LOL senex deus.... a bunch of pretentious old men playing at running the world...

Great thread btw.

The gray death was only a small part of the plot. It drives the first two missions before being dropped almost completely only to be bought back in the super taker mission and then being dropped for good.

3nails4you
25th Aug 2010, 23:37
The gray death was only a small part of the plot. It drives the first two missions before being dropped almost completely only to be bought back in the super taker mission and then being dropped for good.

Umm...the UC was used for mass production of the Gray Death as well as the vaccine, which was the whole point of like 4 different missions, right? It certainly wasn't dropped, like in HK when you break into VersaLife there's stuff about it all over the place. I think it was a big driving force in the atmosphere and plot of the game...don't dismiss it so easily.

Pretentious Old Man.
25th Aug 2010, 23:42
@Rindill LOL senex deus.... a bunch of pretentious old men playing at running the world...


Just the one. And he ain't playing...

mad_red
26th Aug 2010, 00:09
Just the one. And he ain't playing...

OMG :eek:

So maybe you can set me straight then... I need to know, does the Gray Death allow Helios to contact human minds all over the world, so as to realize his perfect 'virtual democracy'? Or does he get his info in other ways, and I'm just making stuff up now?

Pretentious Old Man.
26th Aug 2010, 00:23
OMG :eek:

So maybe you can set me straight then... I need to know, does the Gray Death allow Helios to contact human minds all over the world, so as to realize his perfect 'virtual democracy'? Or does he get his info in other ways, and I'm just making stuff up now?

If you are referring to DX1, the Aquinas hub was the only way in which Helios could interface with the world. That's why Tong planned to destroy it. If you refer to Invisible War's "Denton Ending", then Helios interfaced with everyone simply by augmenting everyone with nanites. I'm afraid there was never any reference to the Grey Death being a nano-technological virus. True, it was built by a Universal Constructor (or several), but by definition they can build anything at all.

If there was any problem with the above, just find a very high prime number and multiply! :)

luminar
26th Aug 2010, 00:24
Its about the tech and philosophical aspects, if the gameplay is about augs, then deus ex will be a random sequence of cinematic takedowns in third person with dialogues in between? :nut:

QFT! Tech and philosophy and dialogue are the pillars they should lean on.

3nails4you
26th Aug 2010, 01:14
OMG :eek:

So maybe you can set me straight then... I need to know, does the Gray Death allow Helios to contact human minds all over the world, so as to realize his perfect 'virtual democracy'? Or does he get his info in other ways, and I'm just making stuff up now?

Quite correct, and that was obviously the main thing. But the Gray Death was a big instrument in plot development, that's all I was saying.

xsamitt
3rd Sep 2010, 15:19
http://www.geekologie.com/2010/08/im_cool_with_a_stump_steampunk.php

lithos
3rd Sep 2010, 17:19
I'm afraid there was never any reference to the Grey Death being a nano-technological virus. True, it was built by a Universal Constructor (or several), but by definition they can build anything at all.

Daedalus says the following when you go after the UC in Versalife in HK: "There is a device in here called a Universal Constructor. It is one of the only two devices in the world capable of producing the nanomechanical virus called the Gray Death. I require you to destroy it. Use the code 525."

At Area 51, Tong says, "I seem to be in remission, JC. Everett is right: the virus has some sort of on/off switch."

So, yeah, it's nanotech/nanomech. Same thing.

Donvermicelli
3rd Sep 2010, 18:53
Daedalus says the following when you go after the UC in Versalife in HK: "There is a device in here called a Universal Constructor. It is one of the only two devices in the world capable of producing the nanomechanical virus called the Gray Death. I require you to destroy it. Use the code 525."

At Area 51, Tong says, "I seem to be in remission, JC. Everett is right: the virus has some sort of on/off switch."

So, yeah, it's nanotech/nanomech. Same thing.

Am I the only one who understood that grey death = nano augmentation?
Only very few people are able to survive it and receive the benefits (paul) and that's why you are Paul's clone, the others who had nanoaugmentatations had gene alterations in order to make them acceptable. Or am I wrong here?

And back on-topic: What deusex has been and always will be for me is the perfect match of it all. It isn't just some random shooter or augmentation fest. It's a rich plot that can evolve and resolve in a multitude of ways ( a book of sorts) and you the player are able to decide how it will end, and in order to do that you have a billion diffirent possibilities in doing so. You could for example use leg augmentations, find high ground and snipe everyone down, you could cloak and assassinate them one by one or avoid any confrontation. You could find sewers to crawl through, security systems that you could hack and turn against their users or simple old school stealth crouching behind cover and walking slowly to stay quiet and bypassing all enemy encounters (this was possible in DX1). If the developers believe that augs are all that DeusEx has going for it they are sorely mistaken.

On a side note, if this entire thing is a prequel, how come I've seen technologies I've never seen before in DX1? I mean DX1 seemed like your present day time, with some more advanced weapons and computers but that's it. Only the shadow corporations had fancy things like augmentations and military grade bots (and the ones from DXHR look far more advanced than the ones in DX1 for some reason.)

Mindmute
4th Sep 2010, 16:59
Am I the only one who understood that grey death = nano augmentation?
Only very few people are able to survive it and receive the benefits (paul) and that's why you are Paul's clone, the others who had nanoaugmentatations had gene alterations in order to make them acceptable. Or am I wrong here?

Not technically nanoaugmentation since it didn't augment any aspect of the people infected, but it was probably some sort of nanite group designed to spread to other human hosts and multiply by any means possible.
And if it was gene a tolerance thing like you suggested, then there's no way a cure would even be possible, you'd have go as far as removing all the nanites from the host body or drastically altering their gene sequence.

Since Tong called it an "On/Off" switch, it's very possible that ambrosia simply stalls or stops some functions of the nanites.

lithos
4th Sep 2010, 17:32
Am I the only one who understood that grey death = nano augmentation?
Only very few people are able to survive it and receive the benefits (paul) and that's why you are Paul's clone, the others who had nanoaugmentatations had gene alterations in order to make them acceptable. Or am I wrong here?

I understood it as nanites, yes - same stuff that's used in the augs, but obviously with a different, more sinister purpose. And I understood it still behaved like a virus - ie, it still had its vectors, needed to be transmitted from one person to another. I also understood it was Page holding the world to ransom - no point in infecting everyone all the time, because if they die, you've got nothing to bargain with (and besides, what's the point of ruling the world if you've got no one to rule over?)

I, personally, think that since DX plays out over something like a mere 48 hours, and that Paul, JC and Jock were high-value government employees, they were given Ambrosia, and it was still in their system. Manderley makes mention of having to explain why the mayor's daughters "...won't get their pills this month," so I'm guessing a single dose lasts four weeks.

I don't think the grey death was EXACTLY the same as the augs. Same technology, yes, same materials. The issue of the rejection of the augs was much like the body's normal rejection of anything foreign, like a transplanted kidney.

I'm certain every single person in the game who had nano-augs was genetically engineered in order to have them - Simons, the Dentons and the MIBs. Except that Paul (the "Primary Unit") and JC (the "Secondary Unit") were the first generation ("Series Q"?) of augmented humans who didn't have the albinism or the bright blue eyes of the MIBS (the "Series P" agents.)

Irate_Iguana
4th Sep 2010, 17:41
I'm certain every single person in the game who had nano-augs was genetically engineered in order to have them - Simons, the Dentons and the MIBs. Except that Paul (the "Primary Unit") and JC (the "Secondary Unit") were the first generation ("Series Q"?) of augmented humans who didn't have the albinism or the bright blue eyes of the MIBS (the "Series P" agents.)


The MiB's didn't have nano augs. They were done the "old-fashioned" way by using pharmaceuticals and physical and psychological conditioning. Their only aug was the self-termination device. They were designed to look much more human that the mech-augs and be more predictable than the nano-augs.

avenging_teabag
6th Sep 2010, 13:55
I understood it as nanites, yes - same stuff that's used in the augs, but obviously with a different, more sinister purpose.
For what it worth, when you're escaping the MJ12 facility in DE, and meet Paul (or find his corpse, as the case may be) in the lab, there's a lab testing report that says something like "blood tests indicate that the subject has been contaminated with Gray Death, but displays no adverse symptoms" (don't remember verbatim). So it seems that the Gray Death and nanites are very closely related indeed.

TrickyVein
6th Sep 2010, 14:10
Sounds like Paul - and therefore JC as well - were nano-augmented to combat the Grey Death, or even to be immune to it.

Fluffis
6th Sep 2010, 16:30
Wasn't Gray Death just nanites that came into a system (human) that rejected them, i.e. wasn't capable of being nano-augmented?

Pretentious Old Man.
6th Sep 2010, 16:37
Wasn't Gray Death just nanites that came into a system (human) that rejected them, i.e. wasn't capable of being nano-augmented?

Well, since a UC can, by definition, produce ANYTHING, the virus could have been anything, too.

All I have to do is find a very large prime number and multiply!!!

(A phrase that makes no sense in that context.)

Nyysjan
6th Sep 2010, 16:41
(A phrase that makes no sense in that context.)

It would if you had Grown with the Industry™ (ok, maybe not, but had to use it somewhere).

Pretentious Old Man.
6th Sep 2010, 16:48
It would if you had Grown with the Industry™ (ok, maybe not, but had to use it somewhere).

Why use it? Let it spill over into the schools and churches, let the bodies pile up in the streets.

In the end, they'll beg the industry to grow up

Mindmute
6th Sep 2010, 17:00
Wasn't Gray Death just nanites that came into a system (human) that rejected them, i.e. wasn't capable of being nano-augmented?

Honestly, if it were just that, I can't see how Ambrosia would work as an effective cure unless it completely purged the body of the nanites or reworked the gene sequence of the patient in order to stop rejection.