PDA

View Full Version : Inventory



Slack
18th Aug 2010, 18:28
What do you think of it? Inventory,in my opinion, is one of the best things in DEUS EX 1 and it should return on DEUS EX 3. What do you think?

xsamitt
18th Aug 2010, 18:29
What do you think of it? Inventory,in my opinion, is one of the best things in DEUS EX 1 and it should return on DEUS EX 3. What do you think?

I think very few of us out there would disagree.

ZakKa89
18th Aug 2010, 18:49
no inventory suckssss! I don't want to have anything with me I want to play the game with my bare hands punching everybody in the throat ; )

srsly, there will be an inventory so don't worry. The devs even said it would be similar to that of de1.

Slack
18th Aug 2010, 18:53
Cool! Thats a good thing to know!

pha
18th Aug 2010, 18:55
Of course it's good.

But tell it to the adulatory "professional" reviewers who praised Mass Effect 2 for getting rid of ME1's inventory and making it easier and faster to get into the action, i.e. the part which matters most (to them).

pringlepower
18th Aug 2010, 19:03
Of course it's good.

But tell it to the adulatory "professional" reviewers who praised Mass Effect 2 for getting rid of ME1's inventory and making it easier and faster to get into the action, i.e. the part which matters most (to them).

There's a difference between DX inventory and ME inventory: it wasn't a ridiculous mess that made you carry 50 assault rifles to drag to the nearest Citadel Costco Sale.

pha
18th Aug 2010, 19:06
But did they have to remove the inventory system altogether, just because it was bloated? You don't squeeze pimples with a meat grinder.

pringlepower
18th Aug 2010, 19:18
But did they have to remove the inventory system altogether, just because it was bloated? You don't squeeze pimples with a meat grinder.

It wasn't so much an inventory system as it was a strangely large rack of guns. In RPG inventories, you're supposed store more than just a bunch of guns. Say a soda pop, some magical healing potions, or a pornographic magazine. They kept the general idea - having a bunch of guns, while removing the bloat. Instead of the Katana, Scimitar, Naginata, Tornado, Vortex, Helix, Katana II, Katana III, Katana IV, Katana V, Katana VI, Katana VII, Katana VIII, Katana IX, Katana X, blah blah blah that more or less did the same things, they got some guns that are at least differentiated in some ways.

Really ME2's system has much more in common with DX's (minus the soda pops and pornographic magazines). You have one assault rifle, one shotgun, etc. That makes sense. And medigels, etc. are all seperate anyways.

Pinky_Powers
18th Aug 2010, 20:39
It did twist my insides like some mean-spirited tapeworm when I saw all form of standard inventory ripped from Mass Effect 2. ME1 was a vile mess. A high refinement was needed, but what we ended up with was an ugly void.

ZakKa89
18th Aug 2010, 21:29
I am happy they removed the inventory system from me1. It was terrible and unnecessary

Xenoc
19th Aug 2010, 08:29
Of course it's good.

But tell it to the adulatory "professional" reviewers who praised Mass Effect 2 for getting rid of ME1's inventory and making it easier and faster to get into the action, i.e. the part which matters most (to them).

Thats because the reviewers dont have the brain cells anymore to think when they play an RPG, COD rotted their fragile minds...

mad825
19th Aug 2010, 09:00
I am happy they removed the inventory system from me1. It was terrible and unnecessary

indeed, ME1 was just spammed with guns and upgrades, I felt like they just pressed and hold Ctrl+v for 1 mins, every square meter of the map.

All this just reminded me of the 2 weeks free trial that I had with EVE. :mad2:

Xenoc
19th Aug 2010, 09:26
indeed, ME1 was just spammed with guns and upgrades, I felt like they just pressed and hold Ctrl+v for 1 mins, every square meter of the map.

All this just reminded me of the 2 weeks free trial that I had with EVE. :mad2:

Real RPG's are about collecting the loot to get better armour/weapons for more difficult battles in the game, not to spam the player with needless crap...

Alot of games match your lvl cap to what you will find in a chest or on a corpse ala Oblivion. DAO was still giving me leather armour at lvl 18?

So i would prefer to have lots of armour and weapons to pick from, but alas as there will be no lvl cap finding the same weapons over and over will become tedious!

rokstrombo
19th Aug 2010, 09:48
I think the Tetris-style inventory was great in Deus Ex, however limiting inventory by weight rather than size would make things slightly easier to sort and manage on consoles. It would also be more intuitive if the player character's attributes such as stamina or movement speed were affected by the size of their inventory, for example.

JCpies
19th Aug 2010, 20:17
Thats because the reviewers dont have the brain cells anymore to think when they play an RPG, COD rotted their fragile minds...

What a shame.

WildcatPhoenix
19th Aug 2010, 20:26
I think the Tetris-style inventory was great in Deus Ex, however limiting inventory by weight rather than size would make things slightly easier to sort and manage on consoles. It would also be more intuitive if the player character's attributes such as stamina or movement speed were affected by the size of their inventory, for example.

I always thought there should be a Conditioning skill that affected the size of the inventory you could carry. Makes fairly logical sense (although the idea of being able to carry a GEP gun, sniper rifle, and shotgun under a leather jacket is still pretty ridiculous).

Dr_Bob
19th Aug 2010, 20:39
Of course it's good.

But tell it to the adulatory "professional" reviewers who praised Mass Effect 2 for getting rid of ME1's inventory and making it easier and faster to get into the action, i.e. the part which matters most (to them).

Mass Effect 1 had one of the worst inventories ever.

Removing it may have seemed drastic, but at least they didn't risk making another mistake with an inventory system in Mass Effect 2.


What a shame.

What a rotten way to review something.

Pretentious Old Man.
19th Aug 2010, 21:42
What a shame it was a bomb. It was a good game...

Dr_Bob
19th Aug 2010, 21:46
What a shame it was a bomb. It was a good game...

Mr. John Shepard in da fresh.

Slack
21st Aug 2010, 00:44
I always thought there should be a Conditioning skill that affected the size of the inventory you could carry. Makes fairly logical sense (although the idea of being able to carry a GEP gun, sniper rifle, and shotgun under a leather jacket is still pretty ridiculous).
totally agree

spm1138
23rd Aug 2010, 20:24
I am happy they removed the inventory system from me1. It was terrible and unnecessary

ME2's system was a huuuuuge improvement.

Instead of having a hundred near identical weapons that were much the same but only slightly better it had several clearly differentiated weapons that levelled up with the player.

Achieved the same thing but did it a hojillion times better.

Unless you're in love with complexity for complexity's sake I don't see what the problem with it is.

DeusWhatever
23rd Aug 2010, 20:37
ME2's system was a huuuuuge improvement.


I think it was a huge dissapointment for a "pseudo RPG". The problem wasnt the system of ME1, the problem was the implementation ingame.

It should be pretty clear to every1 that people like to "treasurehunt", to collect, and to find special things. If you do this system like Diablo2 or Borderlands it adds a very nice addition to gameplay. You have the immanent possibility of finding something unique at any time, as well as the motivation to play until you can wear the cool item "x" that requires skill-level "y". I think this really ads to gameplay, you could make this more realistic for deus ex. Like gunX requires augmentation level "y" to compensate the weight (slower moving), or the recoil etc.

Maybe its just me but i think randomized loot if implemented right is a great thing to have.

Pretentious Old Man.
23rd Aug 2010, 20:54
ME2 pretty much stopped being an RPG, whilst ME1 was "My first RPG-Lite".

pha
23rd Aug 2010, 21:02
It's relieving to see that some people still agree with me that ME2's inventory was NOT an improvement.

ME1 itemization gave you the feeling of advancement, which is an important aspect of RPG's.

Looting or buying a better weapon than you use is far better than improving your weapons with a planet scanning minigame which is clearly intended for 5 year old kids and Eidos Montréal staff. Changing the actual item is far more satisfying especially when you take down a tough enemy for it, or when it's some random loot.

Maybe the item tiers were unnecessary but, say, there was an Assault Rifle with smaller clip capacity and higher damage per bullet, and a faster AR with higher clip capacity and weaker bullets, you could choose the one which fits your playstyle, equipped ammo type, or class. ME2 had less than a handful of each weapon type whose stats increased linearly, always making the older weapon of the same type obsolete. Once you obtain the SMG while recruiting Tali, there's no reason to use the first SMG.

ME1's ammo system was also better (the genius who turned ammo to character skills in ME2 is probably the one who thought about planet scanning), Omni Tools had stats, which again could be chosen depending on your class/abilities/enemies.

IMO the only goof things about ME2 inventory were the modular armor upgrades (there should still have been different armors with different stats to apply these pieces though) and the impressive collection of heavy weapons instead of ME1's grenade launchers with different grenade types.

In the end, BioWare released armor and weapon DLC's and removed all doubts as to why they simplified the inventory. "ME1 had over 9000 weapons but it was too much, so we released ME2 with about 20 weapons but it was too few so we released a DLC with some more weapons. Thanks for buying it, suckers." What kind of nonsense is that?

Irate_Iguana
23rd Aug 2010, 21:56
It's relieving to see that some people still agree with me that ME2's inventory was NOT an improvement.

The lack of an inventory could have worked for ME. Simplification could have strengthened the gameplay in this case. I can see where they were going with the system. Armor, weaponry, teammates and to a certain extent skills were supposed to all be selected before starting a mission. The player was supposed to tailor everything to a specific mission and playstyle before starting that mission. This could have worked very well for Mass Effect. The game is basically an adventure game with some 3rd person cover shooting and some RPG-lite elements. Making a choice before a level and sticking with it could have made things more interesting.

The problem with the system, or at least the biggest problem, was that there was almost nothing to gather. In the vanilla game there are 14 weapons and 5 Heavy Weapons. Three of the weapons are exclusive to a few classes and clearly better than anything in their group. In the various groups there are a few weapons clearly better than others. There are 15 armor pieces. A lot of them are useless for most classes. There aren't enough pieces of equipment and the pieces of equipment that are there aren't different enough.

They got the teammates almost correct. There were a few teammates suitable to various situations and playstyles. Unfortunately a few of them were worthless and their AI wasn't good. If they actually went ahead and differentiated the weapons and armor and added a few more of them the inventory system, or lack of one, could have impacted the game a lot.

pha
23rd Aug 2010, 22:32
Sure it would work better if there were more weapons and armor pieces, instead of having "best" of everything which are useful in any given situation and never worry about the loadout again. But like I said, I believe they deliberately kept the numbers low to add more items with DLC's.

Cronstintein
24th Aug 2010, 01:11
I think it was a huge dissapointment for a "pseudo RPG". The problem wasnt the system of ME1, the problem was the implementation ingame.

It should be pretty clear to every1 that people like to "treasurehunt", to collect, and to find special things. If you do this system like Diablo2 or Borderlands it adds a very nice addition to gameplay. You have the immanent possibility of finding something unique at any time, as well as the motivation to play until you can wear the cool item "x" that requires skill-level "y". I think this really ads to gameplay, you could make this more realistic for deus ex. Like gunX requires augmentation level "y" to compensate the weight (slower moving), or the recoil etc.

Maybe its just me but i think randomized loot if implemented right is a great thing to have.

It's not just you, I agree that well randomized loot is terrific. The best part of borderlands is their loot system which was directly lifted from diablo.

I also agree with you about ME1 and was about to post the same thing: if you could have more easily sorted and sold off the unneeded loot it would have been much less a source of complaining. Take the item list from ME1, add random stat slots like diablo and the ability to sort through loot and you've got an ideal system.

Xenoc
24th Aug 2010, 09:41
I hope they keep the inventory the same or as near to the same as DX... I also really liked the screen with your limb health, if it aint broke dont fix it???

JackShandy
24th Aug 2010, 10:17
Look, Inventory systems do not automatically make a game deeper or more intelligent. Your willingness to sort through a a huge list of items in an attempt to find out which item is slightly better than all the others does not make you smarter than an COD fan. Sometimes, like in Deus Ex, an inventory system means the game is richer and more detailed. Most of the time, it just means the game has more useless junk to carry around.

ME1 was an aborted attempt at shoving an RPG up a shooters ass. ME2 refined it brilliantly. It would not have been made better by the opportunity to pick up a million different types of Shotgun.

beastrn
24th Aug 2010, 10:41
Yeah Diablo would have been a great and deep game without an inventory!

Cronstintein
24th Aug 2010, 11:00
No one said anything about depth or intelligence. Having the chance to have differing and/or unique loot does add depth though since you brought it up. If you don't like loot maybe it's you who should be playing COD. I actually don't think this would be a good fit for DX, more suited to a game with lots of dungeon crawling.

The inventory in ME2 was a useless joke. Could have completely removed it and the difference in gameplay would have been negligible. Without having differing but equal weapons there's no deciding, no thinking. You just auto-equip the most recently picked up weapon <yawn>.

EDIT - <shake fist at sneaky ninjas>

Red
24th Aug 2010, 12:10
Hm, now when I think of it, original Deus Ex would be even more awesome having diverse stats for all the loot. Bought goods would wield better stats, MJ12 item would be of better quality than mere terrorist stuff of NFS etc. etc.

Now that's the idea of taking Deus Ex and adding to it, not some 3rd person cool şhit.

Ashpolt
24th Aug 2010, 12:34
Hm, now when I think of it, original Deus Ex would be even more awesome having diverse stats for all the loot. Bought goods would wield better stats, MJ12 item would be of better quality than mere terrorist stuff of NFS etc. etc.

Now that's the idea of taking Deus Ex and adding to it, not some 3rd person cool şhit.

Agreed, that's something I could definitely go for. Not to the degree of Borderlands, but certainly more than what was present in DX1.

Red
24th Aug 2010, 12:46
Yeah... Granted there were weapon mods and you made your weapon better than others, just that it didn't quite hit the spot. I know that after I've found some mods scattered around Liberty Island I was VERY reluctant to give Gunther my precious modded gun knowing I've wasted a mod on it and it could prove I'd miss it by the end of the game (in case I didn't want to upgrade Pistol skill any further)...

Actually, here's one of the ultra-super-very-very-VERY!!!! rare moments where I have to commend Invisible War: Unique weapons there were a nice touch.

But then again, there are mods like Shifter out there, yet in the case of HR we are gonna have to gargle four asterisks down our throats via DLC instead of having a devoted modding community delivering us delicious mods. Ok, they may release SDK one day, but I guess it'll be too late by then.

I'm still counting on K^2 managing to hack the camera to 1st person.

Eh, this turned out to be a rant in general, nothing in particular connection with Inventory, but hey, that's nothing new on these forums, now is it? :D

ZIGS
11th Oct 2010, 19:31
They said that DXHR would have an inventory system like the first game (tetris-like) but from what I've seen/read, what it really has is some kind of radial menu like most console games have. Did they just outright lie about the inventory?!

Tverdyj
11th Oct 2010, 19:33
supposedly what we've seen in the demos so far is placeholder gun inventory

they haven't outright scrapped the tetris-style inventory


yet

Romeo
11th Oct 2010, 19:34
Everything I have read has pointed to a set-up like the original. Could you perhaps send a link? I'd be kinda interested to see that. =)

ZIGS
11th Oct 2010, 19:35
At this point in development they shouldn't have any placeholders but I hope you're right.

ZIGS
11th Oct 2010, 19:36
Everything I have read has pointed to a set-up like the original. Could you perhaps send a link? I'd be kinda interested to see that. =)

Don't have any link (forgot) but you can see in videos the radial menu (and I read about it too, like it was something definitive *shivers*)

IwantedOrange
11th Oct 2010, 19:37
:lol:

When DX3 will be released, I'll try to count the broken promisses. That was number 1 :whistle:

Kodaemon
11th Oct 2010, 19:38
I would guess there's a separate inventory and a fast-access radial menu.

Blade_hunter
11th Oct 2010, 19:43
The inventory is tetris like, most previews says there is that kind of inventory, even Jerion saw it.
So I don't know why there will be lying despite a lot of gripes I have with this game the inventory is there.

AlexOfSpades
11th Oct 2010, 19:46
I would guess there's a separate inventory and a fast-access radial menu.

I hope so.

Shralla
11th Oct 2010, 19:51
At this point in development they shouldn't have any placeholders but I hope you're right.

So you really think that a full six-months before release, they shouldn't have placeholders on things that are generally the LAST thing to be added and finalized in any game?

Also, has it ever occurred to you that every single demo anybody has seen of the game has been on a console?

GepardenK
11th Oct 2010, 19:56
I love tetris inventory. It makes me feel that the items I have are physicaly mine, rather than just powerups on a list. Collecting stuff is much more rewarding that way.

A few fake promises can be expected from an AAA developer, but scrapping this now would be an outright lie. So I belive it is still inn. No reason why not.

ZIGS
11th Oct 2010, 20:07
Also, has it ever occurred to you that every single demo anybody has seen of the game has been on a console?

I like how you're implying that usually developers tailor multiplatform games to the different platforms instead of just direct-porting it. Your optimism is amazing

Kodaemon
11th Oct 2010, 20:11
Especially since they already said the game is the same on all platforms :/

Tverdyj
11th Oct 2010, 20:13
whilst it may be unhealthy optimism, EM DID go thorough painstaking measures to hit us over the head many times with the "we are developing the game for all platforms at the same time" over and over again, leading us to begin, despite ourselves, hope that we may get a DA:O-type treatment when it comes to platforms....

I mean, who knows? EM are a new developer, they are yet to establish a reputation for screwing over the PC in favor of consoles... meaning a tiny shred of hope remains

Kodaemon
11th Oct 2010, 20:16
It's not just unhealthy optimism, it's outright denial (http://www.qj.net/qjnet/news/eidos-montreal-all-three-versions-of-deus-ex-human-revolution-will-deliver-the-same-experience.html).

Tverdyj
11th Oct 2010, 20:18
hey, a man can dream...

untill come release date, the net is full of comments a la "the PC version is unplayable without a controller"-type posts.

At which point i'll give up any notion of purchase.

AlexOfSpades
11th Oct 2010, 20:21
hey, a man can dream...

untill come release date, the net is full of comments a la "the PC version is unplayable without a controller"-type posts.

At which point i'll give up any notion of purchase.

Internet rumors made by people who never played the game.

How could people know about this?!

Are they there, playing the game, over by EM offices?

Or did i misunderstood your post?

Shralla
11th Oct 2010, 20:21
Especially since they already said the game is the same on all platforms :/

Which doesn't necessarily mean that the features they choose to include in a pre-alpha demo for a certain system are going to be representative of what is available on the other systems at the time.

And regardless, as it's already been pointed out, people have seen the grid-based inventory system, so ZIGS is still grasping at straws.

Kodaemon
11th Oct 2010, 20:25
Uh, I'm not saying there is no inventory (in fact, a few posts up...). I'm saying expecting large differences between the console and PC versions is unjustified.

Tverdyj
11th Oct 2010, 20:29
Internet rumors made by people who never played the game.

How could people know about this?!

Are they there, playing the game, over by EM offices?

Or did i misunderstood your post?

I meant, once the game is out, and PC users review it to say that.

Gaunt88
11th Oct 2010, 20:33
I'm leaning towards a Tetris-Inventory-with-radial-toolbelt-menu system as well.

My, people are quick to think the worst, aren't they? =/

Corpus
11th Oct 2010, 20:39
Radial Menu is a quick select, tetris inventory is still in.

azarhal
11th Oct 2010, 20:47
The grid inventory was mentioned just last week in the IGN interview.


IGN: Well, this is what surprised me seeing Human Revolution at GamesCom. You guys are absolutely bringing Deus Ex back, right down to the grid inventory.

Fluffis
11th Oct 2010, 20:52
My, people are quick to think the worst, aren't they? =/

Actually, that's a fairly sensible attitude to take. If you expect the worst, then at least you won't be disappointed. ;)

Tverdyj
11th Oct 2010, 20:54
Actually, that's a fairly sensible attitude to take. If you expect the worst, then at least you won't be disappointed. ;)

EXACTLY!

at worst, you will pat yourself on the back and say "well, I knew this would happen"

at best, you'll be pleasantly surprised.

Deltaslayer
11th Oct 2010, 21:22
:lol:

When DX3 will be released, I'll try to count the broken promisses. That was number 1 :whistle:

This, hahahahahahahaha... err... :(

NKD
11th Oct 2010, 21:26
They said there was a tetris inventory, not that there was an MMO-style hotbar.

I'm guessing the radial menu replaces the latter for weapon selection.

Bushmonster
11th Oct 2010, 21:34
At this point in development they shouldn't have any placeholders but I hope you're right.

at e3, fallout new vegas had placeholders for the voices, so i dont think its unreasonable for it to have placeholders at that time. even if the build at the eurogamer is new

Lady_Of_The_Vine
11th Oct 2010, 21:37
The grid inventory was mentioned just last week in the IGN interview.

IGN: Well, this is what surprised me seeing Human Revolution at GamesCom. You guys are absolutely bringing Deus Ex back, right down to the grid inventory.


Thank you for this info.

Gordon_Shea
11th Oct 2010, 21:47
The Docks demo doesn't have a tetris inventory because it's a much, much older demo build. Even though they're still showing it, I think it goes back to February (maybe even earlier?) Instead it's got the radial menu, which is more like the toolbelt from the first game.

A later demo (There was shaky-cam of it, I think) features a proper inventory. I don't have a picture of it (I think Tecman might?) but basically it's got the tetris-style inventory on the right hand side and a picture of Adam in third person on the left. I think this might have been the police station demo, but I'm not 100% sure.

e: According to Baroque (A level designer who posts on the SomethingAwful.com forums, tho he's usually very tight lipped about DX) the reason that the real inventory isn't in the docks demo build is that the art for it wasn't finalized and they thought it'd be better to include as little unfinished content as possible.

ZIGS
13th Oct 2010, 13:31
Police station demo? I haven't seen that one. Link?

Kodaemon
13th Oct 2010, 13:40
There is no footage of that demo, but here's a description: http://www.eurogamer.net/articles/2010-08-19-deus-ex-human-revolution-preview?page=1

Sabretooth1
13th Oct 2010, 13:41
Radial Menu is a quick select, tetris inventory is still in.

This. I'm actually sure that I read this somewhere. The Radial Menu must replace the toolbelt, because the belt cannot be implemented on consoles. Makes sense to me, but I hope that you can still assign 1-10 keys to inventory items.

ZIGS
13th Oct 2010, 16:31
This. I'm actually sure that I read this somewhere. The Radial Menu must replace the toolbelt, because the belt cannot be implemented on consoles. Makes sense to me, but I hope that you can still assign 1-10 keys to inventory items.

Me too. making a toolbelt just for the PC version can't be that complicated/time-consuming

LeMoN_LiMe
13th Oct 2010, 16:36
I think that whatever it is it should be fun?!

Hurray Optimisim ^_^

AlexOfSpades
13th Oct 2010, 16:45
Lemon Lime is a cool guy~

An optimistic among us, how rare!

I bid you welcome!

Delever
13th Oct 2010, 17:45
I have just realized that we are all going to DIE :( :( :( :( :(

JCpies
13th Oct 2010, 17:51
I have just realized that we are all going to DIE :( :( :( :( :(

Nope, I'm going to be cryogenically frozen and defrosted every few months, I should technically not die... for a while atleast.

Errr.

Corpus
13th Oct 2010, 17:55
This. I'm actually sure that I read this somewhere. The Radial Menu must replace the toolbelt, because the belt cannot be implemented on consoles. Makes sense to me, but I hope that you can still assign 1-10 keys to inventory items.

Radial would be terrible on PC. Plus everyone loves the classic belt.

AlexOfSpades
13th Oct 2010, 17:56
I have just realized that we are all going to DIE :( :( :( :( :(

Oh really?

And i thought that as soon as i registered in the Forums, i became immortal

Fluffis
13th Oct 2010, 20:49
Oh really?

And i thought that as soon as i registered in the Forums, i became immortal

No, it's first come, first served. MyImmortal beat you to it.

Jerion
13th Oct 2010, 21:44
This. I'm actually sure that I read this somewhere. The Radial Menu must replace the toolbelt, because the belt cannot be implemented on consoles. Makes sense to me, but I hope that you can still assign 1-10 keys to inventory items.

Reading this, I wonder whether there's a distinction in the versions regarding this quick select feature. Given the strength if the keyboard (lots of buttons to assign) and the relatively high precision of the mouse it would make sense to apply a "toolbelt" to the PC in place of a complicated radial.

Romeo
14th Oct 2010, 00:25
Radial toolbelt could just be 1-8 on the keyboard for PC, D-Pad on consoles... Just sayin'.

Irate_Iguana
14th Oct 2010, 09:37
Just this once I would like to get a game that doesn't feel like a port. A game where you can see that they actually put a lot of thought into designing a menu for the PC. Not a game where you can just feel that the UI for the PC was made by poorly translating the console UI to a mouse and keyboard. A UI that takes full advantage of the fact that there are 101 buttons on the keyboard and lord knows how many on the mouse.

NKD
14th Oct 2010, 09:50
Just this once I would like to get a game that doesn't feel like a port. A game where you can see that they actually put a lot of thought into designing a menu for the PC. Not a game where you can just feel that the UI for the PC was made by poorly translating the console UI to a mouse and keyboard. A UI that takes full advantage of the fact that there are 101 buttons on the keyboard and lord knows how many on the mouse.

I think part of the issue there is that the interface and the gameplay are not two entirely distinct entities. A lot of gameplay functionality is designed with control scheme implications in mind.

So when designing the specifics of the PC version of the game, there's really a limit as to how much the gameplay (designed to work on all platforms) can benefit from the control scheme. Take the augmentations for example, if many of them are designed to be used contextually (only while falling, only while in a conversation, only while near another character etc.), then there is little or no point into giving them keybinds of their own.

Basically, at some point, you end up needing to change gameplay elements in order to further change the interface. I doubt they'll go that far.

As to how this plays into the inventory, it's hard to say. I can't see a Deus Ex style inventory working too well on a console, but they haven't said they differ, so... who knows!

Irate_Iguana
14th Oct 2010, 10:13
So when designing the specifics of the PC version of the game, there's really a limit as to how much the gameplay (designed to work on all platforms) can benefit from the control scheme. Take the augmentations for example, if many of them are designed to be used contextually (only while falling, only while in a conversation, only while near another character etc.), then there is little or no point into giving them keybinds of their own.

Indeed, the gameplay elements place a restriction on what can and can't be done. But this doesn't mean that the control scheme has to be a carbon copy. Take for example ME2's "run" and "take cover" buttons. Both are the spacebar on a PC. While this makes sense for a gamepad with a limited amount of buttons, it also means that the PC player can't run next to an obstacle that can also be used as cover. There is no reason why PC players shouldn't be able to assign both functionalities to different keys. Here you have a clear example of a console scheme being used on a PC without need.

NKD
14th Oct 2010, 10:16
Indeed, the gameplay elements place a restriction on what can and can't be done. But this doesn't mean that the control scheme has to be a carbon copy. Take for example ME2's "run" and "take cover" buttons. Both are the spacebar on a PC. While this makes sense for a gamepad with a limited amount of buttons, it also means that the PC player can't run next to an obstacle that can also be used as cover. There is no reason why PC players shouldn't be able to assign both functionalities to different keys. Here you have a clear example of a console scheme being used on a PC without need.

Yep, that's a pretty good example. Hopefully there aren't any obvious problems like that in the PC version of DXHR.

Pinky_Powers
14th Oct 2010, 11:27
Bioshock did a pretty good job, I remember, with the PC interface. There could have been a bit more functionality, but it certainly didn't feel like a port in the end.

This, I feel, is the difference when they have a team dedicated to developing the PC version. Eidos claims they are building all platforms simultaneously. Let us hope it's true.

Brockxz
14th Oct 2010, 12:17
I don't know if you follow EM or any other DXHR developer twitter accounts but 2 days ago was this:
"any UI programmer interested in working on DX:HR? write me!" by Stephane D'Astous
That could mean that they are only now starting to working on UI, HUD etc.

Coyotegrey
14th Oct 2010, 13:09
I don't know if you follow EM or any other DXHR developer twitter accounts but 2 days ago was this:
"any UI programmer interested in working on DX:HR? write me!" by Stephane D'Astous
That could mean that they are only now starting to working on UI, HUD etc.

Here ya go http://forums.eidosgames.com/showpost.php?p=1509323&postcount=13

Ashpolt
14th Oct 2010, 14:30
I can't see a Deus Ex style inventory working too well on a console

If you're talking purely the grid-style inventory, Resident Evil 4 and 5 used something pretty much identical and worked fine. Also, I've not played it, but I believe the PS2 version of DX still used the grid-style inventory.


Bioshock did a pretty good job, I remember, with the PC interface. There could have been a bit more functionality, but it certainly didn't feel like a port in the end.

True, but Bioshock was also little more than a shooter if we're being perfectly honest: it didn't have much to fit into its UI. OK, so you had augs on top of weapons - but in the original Bioshock, you couldn't use them at the same time, the right mouse button was a toggle between the two. It was only in the sequel that some bright spark went "hmm....what if left mouse button was fire weapon and right mouse button was use aug?" As such, I don't think Bioshock - particularly the original - are exactly great examples of UI. They're simple games which don't require a complex UI - and the first one still managed to somewhat **** that up! :P

MrFoxter
14th Oct 2010, 15:39
I'm playing the first Bioshock now, and finding right plasmid when you need it is sometimes real pain. Not that F keys are out of reach, but plasmids even switch positions after upgrades, so I guess the best way is still hit shift (then the game pauses) and select weapon/ammunition/plasmid with mouse. I think that Mass Effect 2 have done it better, because it keeps you in-game and doesn't break immersion as much as some radial menu in the center of screen or even separate screen.

I will be happier if they use in DX:HR numbers for items and for example shift/ctrl+numbers for augs OR caps lock as a swich between items/augs (not like in Bioshock, I mean only switch numbers from items to augs and vice versa). F keys are trouble for me.

Pinky_Powers
14th Oct 2010, 15:59
Not having an inventory was the worst thing to happen to BioShock and Mass Effect 2. :(

NKD
14th Oct 2010, 16:05
If you're talking purely the grid-style inventory, Resident Evil 4 and 5 used something pretty much identical and worked fine. Also, I've not played it, but I believe the PS2 version of DX still used the grid-style inventory.

Well I was referring to the Tetris inventory, not just a grid. Doesn't everything in RE4 and RE5 take one grid slot?

PS2 version of DX used a kind of category system.

http://kentie.net/article/dxps2/inventory_pic.jpg



Not having an inventory was the worst thing to happen to BioShock and Mass Effect 2. :(

No inventory system is a big step up from the crap that was in Mass Effect 1. An inventory filled with useless crap that might as well have just been nano gel or credits because the only weapons worth using were sold off a vendor. They could have revamped it without cutting it completely, but to be honest I prefer the Mass Effect 2 system. Fewer items, but far more differentiation. Not just generic weapons with different stats. Each armor piece has a unique look, each weapon has a unique look, and each weapon also has unique functionality. Burst fire, a laser sight, whatever.

Quality over quantity.

Pinky_Powers
14th Oct 2010, 17:04
No inventory system is a big step up from the crap that was in Mass Effect 1.

Mass Effect 1 was a mess, but ME2's method was not a step up, but rather a step off... right off the *ing cliff!

NKD
14th Oct 2010, 17:06
Mass Effect 1 was a mess, but ME2's method was not a step up, but rather a step off... right off the *ing cliff!

What didn't you like about it? Just that it wasn't a traditional RPG inventory? How did it impact the gameplay?

Pinky_Powers
14th Oct 2010, 17:26
What didn't you like about it? Just that it wasn't a traditional RPG inventory? How did it impact the gameplay?

I didn't like it that it was non-existent. There was no inventory. I couldn't pick up weapons, I couldn't pick up items, there was zero looting. It damaged the overall immersion and feeling of interacting with the world.
The ammo types, all the weapons, the grenades, the suits and their upgrades... it was deep and numinous to behold.

ME1 was far from perfect, but if you look at just how much they stripped out of the game... it's more than a little sickening, the breadth of complexity that was utterly lost... instead of refined and refurnished.

NKD
14th Oct 2010, 17:33
I didn't like it that it was non-existent. There was no inventory. I couldn't pick up weapons, I couldn't pick up items, there was zero looting. It damaged the overall immersion and feeling of interacting with the world.
The ammo types, all the weapons, the grenades, the suits and their upgrades... it was deep and numinous to behold.

ME1 was far from perfect, but if you look at just how much they stripped out of the game... it's more than a little sickening, the breadth of complexity that was utterly lost... instead of refined and refurnished.

There's a different between complexity for the sake of complexity and meaningful complexity. Looted weapons is pointless if there's no reason to use any of it. A variety of weapon mods are pointless if all but two are the "wrong" ones to use. There were only like two armor models, and so on.

Basically they traded a large amount of meaningless crap for a smaller amount of more meaningful variety. A bunch of identically worthless weapons became a smaller number of unique weapons. There are several times as many viable weapons in ME2 than there is in ME1. Almost all of them have very different methods of operation and unique traits. That's more meaningful complexity, but less meaningless bloat. You have more choice, not less. There are more viable armor pieces, with unique appearances and stats for each. That's more choice, not less.

I'll take real choice over artificially padded illusion of choice any day.

Pinky_Powers
14th Oct 2010, 17:43
You're exaggerating the "meaninglessness" of much of the looting, but you're not entirely wrong.

But you are deeply wrong in your endorsement to cut it all out, instead of making it better; balancing, giving the items more meaning, more functionality, more purpose.

In the end of the day, I'd much rather have the "old system" than the... "no system", which is what we've got in ME2.

I'll always ask for more RPG than less RPG.

NKD
14th Oct 2010, 18:10
You're exaggerating the "meaninglessness" of much of the looting, but you're not entirely wrong.

I don't think I'm exaggerating it that much. It was trivial to get enough credits to buy a Spectre model of your preferred primary weapon, after which point no other weapon was worth using. Armor fared a bit better in that you couldn't buy the best armor a couple hours into the game. But then there were only two models of armor that were any good, Predator and Colossus. So it was just hoping you got them.


But you are deeply wrong in your endorsement to cut it all out, instead of making it better; balancing, giving the items more meaning, more functionality, more purpose.

In the end of the day, I'd much rather have the "old system" than the... "no system", which is what we've got in ME2.

I'll always ask for more RPG than less RPG.

More RPG isn't always the best answer in a hybrid game. You've got to have a balance. If you really honestly prefer having a fluff inventory system over having actual choice... well... that's your business I suppose but it really seems at odds with the idea of an RPG.

Mass Effect 2 has around 30 weapons across 6 types, each of which is worth using to some extent, all with unique attributes and so on. Mass Effect 1 just has a bunch of identical weapons with random accuracy and damage stats. And you're saying Mass Effect 1 is better? I'm having a hard time wrapping my head around this.

Mass Effect 2 has 7 full-cover sets of armor. Plus a couple dozen miscellaneous pieces that can be mixed and matched. Each has a unique appearance, set of stats, etc. Mass Effect 1 has just one armor slot, with random shield and armor stats.

Sure, they could have gone with something even more complex, but they could also have done a lot of other things to make it "more RPG." It might have been more RPG, but then it wouldn't have been Mass Effect.

RPG doesn't have to mean "soulless numbers game saddled with arcane and incomprehensible game mechanics." And looting doesn't have to mean Diablo or AD&D.

Lady_Of_The_Vine
14th Oct 2010, 18:12
I'm lost with this thread. :nut:

So, the question is "Did EM lie about the inventory system?"
What was the answer?

NKD
14th Oct 2010, 18:14
I'm lost with this thread. :nut:

So, the question is "Did EM lie about the inventory system?"
What was the answer?

No one knows because they haven't shown it to us, I guess.

AlexOfSpades
14th Oct 2010, 18:17
Liar liar ~ your ass is on fire ~

Lady_Of_The_Vine
14th Oct 2010, 18:19
Hmm. So, we have a pointless thread then? With people talking about what they've already talked about in other threads?

:D

NKD
14th Oct 2010, 18:22
Hmm. So, we have a pointless thread then? With people talking about what they've already talked about in other threads?

:D

Seems like it.

Fluffis
14th Oct 2010, 18:23
Hmm. So, we have a pointless thread then? With people talking about what they've already talked about in other threads?

:D

You sound surprised...

Lady_Of_The_Vine
14th Oct 2010, 18:27
You sound surprised...

No. I just wanted to check that I had a good excuse to merge threads again. I was bored... :D

Fluffis
14th Oct 2010, 19:09
No. I just wanted to check that I had a good excuse to merge threads again. I was bored... :D

Do it! Swing that bat, milady! :D

Ashpolt
14th Oct 2010, 19:38
Well I was referring to the Tetris inventory, not just a grid. Doesn't everything in RE4 and RE5 take one grid slot?

Nope, some weapons took multiple slots. It worked pretty much exactly like DX's system, which is why I mentioned it. It appears I was wrong about the PS2 port of DX, but like I said, I never played that, I was just going on hearsay anyway.

Lady_Of_The_Vine
14th Oct 2010, 19:42
Do it! Swing that bat, milady! :D

I prefer a whip. It's much kinder, don't you think?

Fluffis
14th Oct 2010, 19:57
I prefer a whip. It's much kinder, don't you think?

Oooh. Kinky. :)
You know what they say: "A kiss is a kiss, but a whiplash lasts until morning." :D

Kodaemon
14th Oct 2010, 20:01
shiny, shiny, shiny boots of leather
whiplash girlchild in the dark
comes in bells, your servant, don't forsake him
strike, dear mistress, and cure his heart

Lady_Of_The_Vine
14th Oct 2010, 20:05
:o

LOL. May I remind everyone that the topic of this thread is the DX:HR inventory. :D

NKD
14th Oct 2010, 20:06
Yes, please stay on topic. DXHR inventory is not the same as MyImmoral's inventory of leather items.

Lady_Of_The_Vine
14th Oct 2010, 20:10
LMAO. Too funny! :lmao:

Fluffis
14th Oct 2010, 20:17
Yes, let's leave that treasure trove of fetishistic paraphernalia, and focus on what's important...

Kodaemon
14th Oct 2010, 20:18
...leaf blowers?

Fluffis
14th Oct 2010, 20:20
...leaf blowers?

I know... I can't seem to think clearly right now either.

TrickyVein
14th Oct 2010, 20:51
Rats, I missed this conversation. That just happened. MyImmortal, and black leather.

Delever
15th Oct 2010, 04:02
I am still alive! Adam's pockets contain tetris inventory. Bigger on the inside. Cakes and sea horses, everything in. But then again, who is sane? I find your lack of leather disturbing.

TheYouthCounselor
15th Oct 2010, 04:43
Well I was referring to the Tetris inventory, not just a grid. Doesn't everything in RE4 and RE5 take one grid slot?

Resident Evil 4 used a Tetris style grid inventory. It was praised by fans and critics as a vast improvement.

Resident Evil 5's on the other hand dumbed it down tremendously. It was completely nonsensical. You only had nine slots, each item taking up one. An easter egg would take up the same space as a Gatling Gun. ARMOR would fill a lot, despite having extra pockets and straps which should ADD more. There were stackable items, but the game was very limited on what could be stack. And to top it all off, if you wanted to set an item down to arrange your inventory, it disappeared from the game in front of you. This drew the ire of many fans and critics (http://www.escapistmagazine.com/videos/view/zero-punctuation/624-Resident-Evil-5).

jkruse
15th Oct 2010, 17:51
So, what do people think of Stalker's inventory? It's got the tetris style look, but is dependent on weight. The grid is technically endless (you just scroll down) but carry too much and you slow down, a bit more and you can't move. Similar to Oblivion but with a DX1 type grid. I'm sure some of you have played one of them.

Fluffis
15th Oct 2010, 18:20
So, what do people think of Stalker's inventory? It's got the tetris style look, but is dependent on weight. The grid is technically endless (you just scroll down) but carry too much and you slow down, a bit more and you can't move. Similar to Oblivion but with a DX1 type grid. I'm sure some of you have played one of them.

I think STALKER's inventory is decent, but I'd like to see a full-on RPG Encumbrance-based inventory; i.e. both size and weight. It would bring another level of equipment tactics.

Tverdyj
15th Oct 2010, 19:25
I think STALKER's inventory is decent, but I'd like to see a full-on RPG Encumbrance-based inventory; i.e. both size and weight. It would bring another level of equipment tactics.

so, like..... the original X-COM inventory?

Fluffis
15th Oct 2010, 20:02
so, like..... the original X-COM inventory?

Never played X-COM (don't hurt me!), so I was more thinking along the lines of (A)D&D, PnP.

Tverdyj
15th Oct 2010, 20:19
HERETIC!!!!! BURN HIM!!!!!!




ahem
well, the original had a Diablo-type/tetris inventory, in that you could fit certain items all over (you had loads of pockets-on your legs, for instance, and you had a upside-down U-shape space on your belt as well), but for instance in your backpack, there'd be a limited number of squares, going tetris-style.

on top of which, each soldier had a stamina stat, which was affected by how much you carried, meaning that the heavier load they've had, the less they'd move each turn.

Fluffis
15th Oct 2010, 20:35
HERETIC!!!!! BURN HIM!!!!!!


EEEEP! :eek:



ahem
well, the original had a Diablo-type/tetris inventory, in that you could fit certain items all over (you had loads of pockets-on your legs, for instance, and you had a upside-down U-shape space on your belt as well), but for instance in your backpack, there'd be a limited number of squares, going tetris-style.

on top of which, each soldier had a stamina stat, which was affected by how much you carried, meaning that the heavier load they've had, the less they'd move each turn.

That sounds like a good one, if a bit too restrictive, imho. The one I had in mind would just be something akin to the regular tetris inventory of DX, with a weight restriction added, basically representing your whole body including bags etc. To make it a bit more restrictive (and cooler, I think), the weight of objects in the world could add to that weight restriction. I.e., without some serious auging, you may not be able to pick up a huge crate, if you've got a humongous rocket launcher strapped to your back, for instance.

Tverdyj
15th Oct 2010, 20:40
They could always go the way of System Shock 2 and let you expand your inventory and max weight, if you get the appropriate aug.....

also, to Specify: the X-COM inventory just looked at the total weight your soldier carried to calculate how much that'll restrict movement.

and of course, then there's s the fact that that game, was a whole other genre, not really an RPG, or real-time.....

Fluffis
15th Oct 2010, 21:10
They could always go the way of System Shock 2 and let you expand your inventory and max weight, if you get the appropriate aug.....


I guess. I do think it would actually be better to just let augs increase max weight. There should really be some form of fixed amount of things that you can carry, and still walk around. "Well, I can move, but my mini-guns are rubbing together."
Bags would be better than augs, to explain an expanded inventory. And those should be limited to small(ish) items.



also, to Specify: the X-COM inventory just looked at the total weight your soldier carried to calculate how much that'll restrict movement.


Yeah, I figured that. I was just thinking about the restriction of space. In an "open" tetris inventory, it wouldn't really matter where you carry something (a bit less restrictive than the X-COM system - if not completely realistic), but you still can't carry ridiculous amounts of items. I think it's a pretty good compromise.