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PenguinsFriend
16th Aug 2010, 17:52
I know there’s a huge rambling post about the new video – but I wanted to create a different thread that would focus on certain elements that we saw so we can debate them. If you want to post about how awesome or sucky the new video is, please do it over at the existing thread – this one is for analyzing the various elements we saw.

Thanks.

***-Killing Guard in Shack-***

OK, so I’ll kick it off by talking about the guy Adam kills in the shed/shack with his knife-arm weapon. Adam stabs him through the back and the blade rips out his chest ala Aliens, yet the guys face is very calm and relaxed – not even a hint of surprise or pain.

I’m wondering if it’s possible for them to do better facial animation on in-game deaths like this or if that kind of thing can only be done for scripted video sequences?

Anyone know?

Shralla
16th Aug 2010, 17:56
I noticed that too. Kind of put me off, to be honest. All their facial animations are done in-engine, so I don't see why they couldn't be applied to the takedowns as well.

Pinky_Powers
16th Aug 2010, 18:05
I felt all the facial animations needed significant work. And some were nonexistent at all. I was rather disappointed, there.

mad825
16th Aug 2010, 18:29
from what I gather, the "game play" trailer were just clips from the tech demo that was displayed/shown at E3 so I dotn think people should be complaining about a few, minor problems.

even so the amount of this so called gameplay was near non-existent and featured more cut-scenes, typical SE, good thing I watched the leaked version

Nyysjan
16th Aug 2010, 18:45
from what I gather, the "game play" trailer were just clips from the tech demo that was displayed/shown at E3 so I dotn think people should be complaining about a few, minor problems.

I absolutely agree with you.
why complain abut little problems when there's so many huge problems to complain about :D

(kidding, kidding, but seriously, this was a horrible trailer, the bit with crossbow was nice as was Adam in the airvent, but pretty much everything else was mediocre at best)

PenguinsFriend
16th Aug 2010, 19:43
Yeah, I'm not really looking to "complain," rather to discuss/debate some items we've seen.

After I saw the way they animated the cut scenes with the depth of facial animation etc, there was just a little too much disconnect when seeing that guy die. Was thinking I don't know too much about game tech so thought I'd ask what was possible.

Many of us seem to be into the whole immersion thing (kind of like Deus Ex, eh? lol), so killing someone, or doing something else to them like hitting etc, should produce, IMO, something other than a blank stare.

There may be "bigger" more "important" things to discuss (mystry third arm?) but this is the one image that has stuck with me.

pringlepower
16th Aug 2010, 19:45
Yeah, I'm not really looking to "complain," rather to discuss/debate some items we've seen.

After I saw the way they animated the cut scenes with the depth of facial animation etc, there was just a little too much disconnect when seeing that guy die. Was thinking I don't know too much about game tech so thought I'd ask what was possible.

Many of us seem to be into the whole immersion thing (kind of like Deus Ex, eh? lol), so killing someone, or doing something else to them like hitting etc, should produce, IMO, something other than a blank stare.

There may be "bigger" more "important" things to discuss (mystry third arm?) but this is the one image that has stuck with me.

Guys it's simple: Adam's arm blades are coated with a very, very, VERY fact acting tranquilizer.

The third arm came out his spleen, duh.

PenguinsFriend
16th Aug 2010, 20:00
now why didn't I think of that? :thumb:

WildcatPhoenix
16th Aug 2010, 20:40
Both the "third arm" and the blank-faced stabbing victim were troubling. I also had a problem with the ragdoll physics of the body being dragged. I'll never forget the gravity-defying limbs of the bodies in Invisible War, or the hilarious post-death gyrations of Halo 2. Of course, the grand prize goes to the ragdoll physics on Medal of Honor: Pacific Assault, where I saw a recently slain Japanese infantryman jiggle and squirm on the ground for a few moments beneath a fallen tree branch, only to vault 100 feet into the air as the engine wrestled with those pesky physics. :lmao:

Needless to say, I'm not a big fan of ragdoll nonsense. Here's hoping EM addresses this issue before the final release.

Ilves
16th Aug 2010, 20:41
Okay, just a little something that caught my eye:

In the wide shot of the docks around timer 00:01:02 look closely at the lower left quarter: there's a texture flashing about on one of the shacks, the technical term eludes me. No biggy, just a little sloppy for a trailer I guess, and added with the omnipresent tearing and shearing it makes me wonder about the engine quality.


Also, thank goodness the blue pixie dust turned out to be, ehm, moisture? :nut:

alexchao
16th Aug 2010, 21:03
I think the fact we see the player dragging the corpse around is a promising sign, though I wish they had shown AJ's arm actually extend to pick up the corpse's arm. I think maintaining continuity between the physical world and the player character like this hugely benefits immersion.

For example, when you pick up an item or weapon in some shooters, the world model (usually low-poly, low-res texture) disappears and the high-res, first-person view model magically appears in your hands. But more and more games are going the route these days of just using a single high-res asset and actually animating the player's hands picking up the item and doing with it whatever is appropriate to get it ready for first usage; it would be nice to see this in DXHR.

A super subtle "feature" to be sure, but I think this kind of detail goes a long way in this hybrid RPG-Shooter genre.


I noticed that too. Kind of put me off, to be honest. All their facial animations are done in-engine, so I don't see why they couldn't be applied to the takedowns as well.

I'm hopeful that these matters of fit-and-finish will be addressed in the final release, and that what we see in the footage is just an unpolished action sequence (or a watered-down rendition that will be served up on the XBox).

TrickyVein
16th Aug 2010, 23:41
Okay, just a little something that caught my eye:

In the wide shot of the docks around timer 00:01:02 look closely at the lower left quarter: there's a texture flashing about on one of the shacks, the technical term eludes me. No biggy, just a little sloppy for a trailer I guess, and added with the omnipresent tearing and shearing it makes me wonder about the engine quality

Having thoroughly enjoyed TRU in all of its glory, I can say that I am confident in the game engine. Whether or not the team has utilized it to its full potential remains to be seen. Two wrongs do not make a right, surely, but I recall whole portions of the game world vanishing in DX - "holes" in the BSP level geometry because of overly complex or non-coplanar brushes. If the game delivers, than overlapping faces or lighting issues are small fry.

rokstrombo
17th Aug 2010, 04:35
I noticed these issues too. The E3 demo was described as pre-alpha during the presentation so it's possible that there could be some improvements by release, but I suspect the developers would be running out of time to fix minor aesthetic problems such as these (which may require a lot of work).

Jerion
17th Aug 2010, 04:40
Okay, just a little something that caught my eye:

In the wide shot of the docks around timer 00:01:02 look closely at the lower left quarter: there's a texture flashing about on one of the shacks, the technical term eludes me. No biggy, just a little sloppy for a trailer I guess, and added with the omnipresent tearing and shearing it makes me wonder about the engine quality.


Also, thank goodness the blue pixie dust turned out to be, ehm, moisture? :nut:

Z-fighting is the term, I think. It's what happens when two polygons occupy the same space.

Several parts of the thing looked a little choppy. Maybe some optimization has been due. :)