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Pretentious Old Man.
13th Aug 2010, 18:34
Well, I hope no-one's ninja'd me on this one.

http://www.eurogamer.net/articles/2010-08-13-deus-ex-interview

For those too lazy to click the link:



The time for CGI is over. With the next instalment in the Deus Ex series nearer to its "early 2011" release, the time for gameplay has arrived. And Eurogamer has it: Deus Ex: Human Revolution's first gameplay trailer, below, for your viewing pleasure.

But that's not all. Here, we chat with lead designer Jean-François Dugas about his inspiration, the action RPG split and, of course, Mr Warren Spector.

Eurogamer: A lot of people looked at your reveal trailer and thought Blade Runner. Was that an influence?

Jean-François Dugas: It was an influence. It was not the only one.

Of course, this cult movie that defined the cyber-punk archetypes, we definitely looked at it. Everything that has to do with cluttering and fog and smoke – it builds a strong archetype of the Blade Runner movie.

We didn't try to reproduce them as is, but we took a page from their book.

We looked at other influences, like Ghost in the Shell, some Japanese anime, even some not so good movies.

Eurogamer: Like what?

Jean-François Dugas: Johnny Mnemonic. But also good old movies like Robocop - that was fun to watch again.

We also dug into some of the books, Ray Kurzweil and other authors that are big into transhumanism. We looked at pretty much everything we could. Greek mythology as well. It was all over the place.

The challenge was, okay, a lot of cool ideas from a lot of different places, but how do you mix it up into one current thing that is going to work on itself and is not going to feel like a rip-off of something else?

Eurogamer: How much of a modern day shooter is this? What's the action RPG blend?

Jean-François Dugas: It's the same blend of first-person shooter slash RPG that the first game was.

Honestly, I know when we said it's going to have auto-regen and a cover system and shooting is not going to be stat-based anymore, a lot of people went, "oh my God! Now they're doing just an action game and it's all about running around and shooting."

It's a fair concern when you just hear that this way. I totally understand it. But it has never been our goal to transform Deus Ex into a shooter game.

We wanted to make sure that the components like stealth and combat, and all the possibilities of being able to upgrade yourself to be better in those areas, the RPG aspect of that, it stays all in place.

Yes we did do some things differently from the first game, or even the second game. But in the end it's still the same experience.

You have a challenge that's not necessarily easy. It's not the case that because the shooting is more straightforward and you have regen that you're going to be invincible.

You'll have to think. You'll have to look around you and maybe find other ways than just shoot and see what happens.

We're balancing the game right now, and I can tell you when there are a few characters on screen that are after you, if you don't take care, a few bullets and you're dead.

Where Deus Ex stands out from other shooter games, that's when Deus Ex is encouraging you to do other things than shooting.

It's where it gets its angle and where it gets exciting and rewarding. This is what we're working at: to make sure that if you want to be a combatant you can be one, but you still have to think and plan and see how you want to upgrade your character and play your fantasy.

The RPG element of that is, you need to build a character for how you want to play. You have to interact with a lot of people. And you have to make decisions that will have some effect on some aspects of the story.

It's not going to be more of an action game than the other ones. It's just when you're in an action segment it's going to be more straightforward.

Eurogamer: What's your favourite quest and what's the most difficult decision the player will have to make?

Jean-François Dugas: I'm not sure I'm allowed to answer this. Even if I'm allowed I'm not sure I want to. It would be spoiling things.

What I can say is we're trying to keep it on a human level. We're trying to explore why people do what they do, and, what are their motivations?

We're trying to explore those kinds of things as much as we can. Sometimes you will have to make choices that might have some sort of impact on the human level for someone else, and on subjects that matter, that you can relate to.

We're trying to make you care as opposed to trying to guess if you say yes or no, if you're going to have a bigger gun or a smaller gun.

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1/10

Deus Ex: Human Revolution gallery.

Eurogamer: How will Deus Ex emotionally engage players on an adult and intelligent level?

Jean-François Dugas: It's not out yet so I cannot say it does it. I can only say what we're trying to do.

At first, internally, when we were brainstorming and going around with ideas of player choices, sometimes we had heated debates.

'If we don't give a big reward to the player for this then this choice is meaningless.' We were debating that. I was like, no, it's not meaningless.

If we talk about something on a human level that something as a player, as a human being, you can relate to, you probably had that experience in the past or you know someone, you understand the emotional aspect of the choice.

Hopefully that is going to help the player focus on choosing because of that, as opposed to, oh, it's going to give me this or that.

Sometimes we have choices where it gives you something, and if you choose something else it gives you something different. What is good is normally something the player decides.

But we're trying to stay away as much as possible from that.

In the end, do we succeed? Is it going to work the way I explain it to you? I have no idea.

The feedback we received with play tests, we received comments that people were experiencing certain interactions with a character. They said, 'I want to kill him.'

It was the reflection that this person was emotionally engaged with that character. If you want to kill him, he was pissing you off or annoying you.

In the end we'll see when the game ships.

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More Deus Ex screens.

Eurogamer: How many endings will the game have? What choices will determine the endings?

Jean-François Dugas: I don't want to reveal too much. What I can tell you is yes, we have multiple endings. At some moment in the game where you'll be facing an important decision to make, it's going to influence your ending.

But also some of your actions you'll have done throughout the game, how you have managed certain situations, is going to have an effect with the ending. That's as far as I'm going to go into it.

Eurogamer: How big is the game? Is it as big as Fallout 3? How long will it take to finish?

Jean-François Dugas: No, it's not going to be 80 hours at all. It's not going to be as big. Fallout is mainly and solely an RPG. Deus Ex is more a blend of action and RPG.

It's a pretty big game. On the critical path it's roughly 20 hours. If you explore beyond the critical path to find all the secrets and all the side quests and the secondary objectives, it's going to clock roughly at 30 hours.

It might be a little bit more depending on one player to another - if they have the strategy guide or not!

It's still pretty big. It's bigger than BioShock but it's smaller than Fallout 3. It's in-between.

Eurogamer: Once you've finished the game, will you be able to replay it with a new game plus option?

Jean-François Dugas: That's something we're still looking into doing if we have the time to do it.

What I would like to do is, once you complete it, you have an option that lets you start the game all over again but with all the augmentations you already have, because in one play through we're balancing it so it's impossible to have them all.

We're still toying with that idea, but depending on how much time we'll have to do it and what is needed, we might drop it or not. It's still an open question.

Eurogamer: How does the PC version differ from the console versions, if at all?

Jean-François Dugas: It takes advantage of the power of the 3D graphics cards on PC and Direct X11.

But in terms of the experience itself, we're not looking at it as, this is the console version and this is the PC version.

We're looking at our game as just a game, and this is going to be the game on all the platforms.

The only thing for me that's important is I want us to be able to adapt the enemies a bit with the hit points to be on PC more challenging.

With the mouse you're way more precise than with the controller. It's not the same experience, exactly. I want to make sure the PC version is tailored to the fact you play with a mouse, and it doesn't feel like it's dumbed down.

Eurogamer: Will you need a powerful PC to play it?

Jean-François Dugas: At this point the specs are not totally nailed so I can't answer that question.

Eurogamer: Deus Ex will be released early next year. Kinect and PlayStation Move will be released very soon. Will the game support them in any way?

Jean-François Dugas: Unfortunately they came too late in the development process. So it's going to play like traditional games right now.

Eurogamer: Will the game be playable in 3D?

Jean-François Dugas: The technology lead has had some discussions with a few people about that, but at this point I don't think... I can't answer. I'm not sure if we're going to support it or not.

That's to do with what we need to do and the time we have left and the resources we have.

Eurogamer: Have you spoken to Warren Spector about the game?

Jean-François Dugas: Unfortunately not. But I can tell you we spoke with other members of the original team.

For the development of the story, Sheldon Pacotti, who was the lead writer on the first two games, helped us as a consultant. He came to Montreal and we showed him the game. He gave us feedback on the story and we worked together.

It was great to have the input of some of the original members. The reaction has been enthusiastic. It's been cool.

When you know that some of the original members are coming to see your game and you present, it's nerve-racking!

We take it seriously. We want to revive Deus Ex. We want to make it a worthy addition to the franchise.

When they came and gave us feedback it was really like, 'wow.' It was really cool.


Good news: 20 hours only doing the minimum number of things, about 30 doing the maximum. Just about what DX1 was, then. Perfect.

Good news: Dugas claims that the RPG elements from the original are just as prominent here, and that it is not their goal to turn DX into a mindless shooter.

Good News: Dugas says that the emotional reward should be enough for doing most things, as it relates to the plot, and not just "I want to get a reward for doing this".

Awesome News: There is a hint that we will be getting region-specific hitpoint damage on the PC due to the precision of the mouse, whereas this is impossible on consoles.

Good News: The game takes advantage of DirectX11.

Bad News: He doesn't really back his claims that it has not been simplified with any examples of how.

Bad News: He talks about "action segments". What does this mean? If you want to play as Rambo? The times when the coat comes off? What?

pringlepower
13th Aug 2010, 18:47
Well, I hope no-one's ninja'd me on this one.

http://www.eurogamer.net/articles/2010-08-13-deus-ex-interview

For those too lazy to click the link:



Good news: 20 hours only doing the minimum number of things, about 30 doing the maximum. Just about what DX1 was, then. Perfect.

Good news: Dugas claims that the RPG elements from the original are just as prominent here, and that it is not their goal to turn DX into a mindless shooter.

Good News: Dugas says that the emotional reward should be enough for doing most things, as it relates to the plot, and not just "I want to get a reward for doing this".

Good News: There is a hint that we will be getting region-specific hitpoint damage on the PC due to the precision of the mouse, whereas this is impossible on consoles.

Good News: The game takes advantage of DirectX11.
Bad News: He doesn't really back his claims that it has not been simplified with any examples of how.

Bad News: He talks about "action segments". What does this mean? If you want to play as Rambo? The times when the coat comes off? What?

"More straightforward action segments" probably means the coat/armour distinction you were afraid of in your pernickey post.

More good news: PC version makes use of DX11 and whatnot

Pretentious Old Man.
13th Aug 2010, 18:52
"More straightforward action segments" probably means the coat/armour distinction you were afraid of in your pernickey post.

More good news: PC version makes use of DX11 and whatnot

I've already done a fairly substantial edit after I got the time to read the whole thing properly! :thumb:

Nyysjan
13th Aug 2010, 19:03
OMG, can this be real, some actual information that does not make me want to strange the DX:HR dev team?

Well, apart from, as Pretentious Old Man said, that they failed to actually back up their claims in any way, and that the "action segments" sound really worrying.

Freddo
13th Aug 2010, 19:17
More good news: PC version makes use of DX11 and whatnot
Which makes me guess that DX10 is required, so XP users won't be able to play the game.

Irate_Iguana
13th Aug 2010, 19:59
What I would like to do is, once you complete it, you have an option that lets you start the game all over again but with all the augmentations you already have, because in one play through we're balancing it so it's impossible to have them all.

No! No, no, no and no. The fact that you need to make choices is something that makes the game interesting. Don't cheapen that choice by making sure that the player can get everything.



Awesome News: There is a hint that we will be getting region-specific hitpoint damage on the PC due to the precision of the mouse, whereas this is impossible on consoles.

No. He claims that he will increase the HP of guards because you are more accurate with the mouse. You don't have to wait around for the autoaim to target an enemy. That does not mean that they will incorporate a region-specific damage model.

pringlepower
13th Aug 2010, 20:08
No! No, no, no and no. The fact that you need to make choices is something that makes the game interesting. Don't cheapen that choice by making sure that the player can get everything.



Well once we've beaten the game already, why not have some fun? That's an entirely optional area that can only be accessed after beating the game once - with save data carried from your previous playthrough. Hence "New Game+"

Jerion
13th Aug 2010, 20:51
Which makes me guess that DX10 is required, so XP users won't be able to play the game.

PC Gamers have had plenty of time to make the move to Win 7 x64 and DirectX 10/11 hardware. About time that old API was phased out...though that's a totally different discussion. I'm just very glad the PC is getting the premo graphics treatment. :)



No. He claims that he will increase the HP of guards because you are more accurate with the mouse. You don't have to wait around for the autoaim to target an enemy. That does not mean that they will incorporate a region-specific damage model.

Ditto. Nice move, compensating for the ease of accuracy with the mouse by making enemies tougher. Though, haven't they already confirmed location-based damage in NPCs?

Ashpolt
13th Aug 2010, 20:52
Personally, that was the first interview I've read with Dugas where I didn't want to punch him in the face after reading it. So, from that perspective, it's a step up!

Agree that it's worrying that he's calling the "action sections" "more straightforward." If anything, as they're very clearly focusing on tightening the combat mechanics (for better or worse, depending on how much of an RPG you want) I would have expected that side of things at least to be more complex - unless he's talking purely about the removal of skill-based aiming.

I also agree with Irate_Iguana that the quote about hitpoints doesn't suggest location-specific damage on Adam - it'd be nice, but this quote is clearly talking about his opponents. On the other hand, any news that the PC version is being treated differently from the console ones and having its strengths taken into account in any way is good news in my eyes.

And yes, they need to actually justify their statements that this will be as much of an RPG as the original, giving us clear information about how this will be the case when all we've heard so far says otherwise. Simply stating it without backing it up is meaningless.

Final note: Who the hell comes up with the questions for these interviews? "Will it support Playstation Move or Kinect"? What kind of bloody question is that? Jesus.

Overall though, one of the better interviews from Dugas, but that speaks more about his past performance than this interview in particular.

3rdmillhouse
13th Aug 2010, 21:03
Good Jesus, I hope they don't do the stupid damned mistake of forcing down auto-aiming on the console version.

Irate_Iguana
13th Aug 2010, 21:12
Well once we've beaten the game already, why not have some fun? That's an entirely optional area that can only be accessed after beating the game once - with save data carried from your previous playthrough. Hence "New Game+"


I dun goofed. It's not that descision in particular that I am worried about so much as it is the mindset behind it. Instead of forcing the player to make a drastic choice they are forcing him to play the game again. Instead of giving weight to a descision it is trivialised to a minor inconveneince on the first time around.



Though, haven't they already confirmed location-based damage in NPCs?

AFAIK they haven't. They've been very tight-lipped about damage models overall and especially when it comes to Adam. Although I hope that they will at least give the enemies location based-damage.



Final note: Who the hell comes up with the questions for these interviews? "Will it support Playstation Move or Kinect"? What kind of bloody question is that? Jesus.

Yeah, that one and the one about 3D really bugged me. Who the hell cares?

pringlepower
13th Aug 2010, 21:30
I dun goofed. It's not that descision in particular that I am worried about so much as it is the mindset behind it. Instead of forcing the player to make a drastic choice they are forcing him to play the game again. Instead of giving weight to a descision it is trivialised to a minor inconveneince on the first time around.



Well you can always start another new game...

Pinky_Powers
13th Aug 2010, 21:59
1. We know that you can initiate violence anywhere.
2. Just as in Deus Ex, there are areas of infiltration where you will be shot on-sight.

There's no reason to get all hung up on his wording about "action segments". The term could just as easily be applied to the first game, and it does not suddenly change the fluidity of that gem.

I don't know what he means by "more straight-forward", but based on all the actual information we have, the combat is clearly just as free-form as the first game. I think maybe he's just referring to the fact there is no skill-points that affect your aim and weapon handling.

The whole deal about the coat coming off is neither here nor there. I could make a mod that took JC's coat off every time he entered a hostile shoot-on-sight area.

It does make you wonder where that bloody coat goes, though.

-~::Edit::~-
Just watched the gameplay again, and something stuck out. Firstly, it was clearly a low-texture-res console (360/PS3) running that footage, and secondly, there was no auto-aim. The leaked footage also showed that Auto-Aim was not a forced feature... if indeed it will even be present at all.

Corpus
13th Aug 2010, 22:20
It does make you wonder where that bloody coat goes, though.


This. Adam must store it somewhere and he's not magically going to go all the way back to Detroit before his big assault on the warehouse.
Saying that they have payed a lot of attention to detail so I'm sure there will be a rational explanation. Hopefully not "his coat is augmented it can retract into his combat jacket at will"

Cronstintein
13th Aug 2010, 22:40
Quote:
Mr. K--
Though, haven't they already confirmed location-based damage in NPCs?

Irate Iguana--
AFAIK they haven't. They've been very tight-lipped about damage models overall and especially when it comes to Adam. Although I hope that they will at least give the enemies location based-damage.


I would be very surprised if NPCs didn't have different hit-boxes, at least for the head. That's pretty standard in all games with shooting these days and would be a ridiculous oversight. Now can you shoot a hand to make him drop a gun? Gimp him with a leg shot? These things remain to be seen. But headshots? Come now, that's been standard since counter strike.

3rdmillhouse
13th Aug 2010, 22:46
I would be very surprised if NPCs didn't have different hit-boxes, at least for the head. That's pretty standard in all games with shooting these days and would be a ridiculous oversight. Now can you shoot a hand to make him drop a gun? Gimp him with a leg shot? These things remain to be seen. But headshots? Come now, that's been standard since counter strike.

Heck, even MGS3 had different hit-boxes, I'd very disapointed if HR doesn't have them. Besides the fact that this would be very pathetic of them.

biofuel
13th Aug 2010, 23:08
This game is not in any way a logical progression of the Deus Ex 'franchise'

The natural progression of Deus Ex would be to scale way back on any violent aspects of the game, and delve right ahead into the virtual reality/immersive story elements using the technology of today to tell a story in the world of Deus Ex.

pringlepower
14th Aug 2010, 01:09
This. Adam must store it somewhere and he's not magically going to go all the way back to Detroit before his big assault on the warehouse.
Saying that they have payed a lot of attention to detail so I'm sure there will be a rational explanation. Hopefully not "his coat is augmented it can retract into his combat jacket at will"

Clearly the B-EE has coat racks right next to the missiles.

Irate_Iguana
14th Aug 2010, 07:53
Clearly the B-EE has coat racks right next to the missiles.

Actually, that was what the designers mentioned when they talked about the coat in an interview. Basically Adam prepares in his transport for the combat mission and leaves the coat there.

JackShandy
14th Aug 2010, 11:54
This game is not in any way a logical progression of the Deus Ex 'franchise'

The natural progression of Deus Ex would be to scale way back on any violent aspects of the game, and delve right ahead into the virtual reality/immersive story elements using the technology of today to tell a story in the world of Deus Ex.

You're saying the next logical step from Deus Ex is Heavy Rain?

I don't know which game you were playing, but the Deus Ex I knew was very much about shooting things in the face.

EDIT: Interesting part of the interview:


You have a challenge that's not necessarily easy. It's not the case that because the shooting is more straightforward and you have regen that you're going to be invincible.

You'll have to think. You'll have to look around you and maybe find other ways than just shoot and see what happens.

We're balancing the game right now, and I can tell you when there are a few characters on screen that are after you, if you don't take care, a few bullets and you're dead.

The whole deal with DE was that you really had to find a lot of alternate solutions to problems because the Shaky-aim was so bad you just couldn't take everyone out rambo style. So with Shaky-Aim gone...

But now it seems like they sort of recognised this, and they're just making enemies a lot tougher so that you can't take them head-on even with perfect aim. Which I like.

SageSavage
14th Aug 2010, 12:07
You're saying the next logical step from Deus Ex is Heavy Rain?

I don't know which game you were playing, but the Deus Ex I knew was very much about shooting things in the face.
DX is both and then some.

Pretentious Old Man.
14th Aug 2010, 12:49
Hmmm, perhaps I was over-enthusiastic about the guard hitpoint thing. Searching for good news.

Still, at least they seem to be treating things differently this time around. I hope that hit-boxes will be in, a disconcerting number of console games make do with just one for the head. That's not what I'm wanting from this one.

At least they're not treating the PC version like the perfunctory and useless bastard child of the important console versions.

Red
14th Aug 2010, 13:02
I've still yet to read an interview where Dugas doesn't abuse the word "cool". I mean, jeez... Yeah, the game looking cool is all that matters. -.-

pringlepower
14th Aug 2010, 14:29
You're saying the next logical step from Deus Ex is Heavy Rain?

I don't know which game you were playing, but the Deus Ex I knew was very much about shooting things in the face.

EDIT: Interesting part of the interview:



The whole deal with DE was that you really had to find a lot of alternate solutions to problems because the Shaky-aim was so bad you just couldn't take everyone out rambo style. So with Shaky-Aim gone...

But now it seems like they sort of recognised this, and they're just making enemies a lot tougher so that you can't take them head-on even with perfect aim. Which I like.

Kinda reminds me of how MechWarrior II multiplayer was so awfully laggy that your ability to compensate for lag in aiming was necessary skill to not die.

and @Red, Dugas is French, give him a break.

luminar
14th Aug 2010, 15:08
I think when he's talking about "action sequences" he was talking about areas littered with bad guys. Also it seemed like he was talking about it as if the "action sequences" were your choice.

Red
14th Aug 2010, 17:42
and @Red, Dugas is French, give him a break.

Right... So just because he's French I can't express my concern of his obsession about how cool the game will look.

No deal. >:|

xsamitt
14th Aug 2010, 19:02
Right... So just because he's French I can't express my concern of his obsession about how cool the game will look.

No deal. >:|

Mature gamers need a mature cool.There is a difference folks.I just hope EM understands this.:mad2:

pringlepower
14th Aug 2010, 19:17
Mature gamers need a mature cool.There is a difference folks.I just hope EM understands this.:mad2:

Of course they do. They're French.

Romeo
14th Aug 2010, 19:45
Good news: 20 hours only doing the minimum number of things, about 30 doing the maximum. Just about what DX1 was, then. Perfect.

Good news: Dugas claims that the RPG elements from the original are just as prominent here, and that it is not their goal to turn DX into a mindless shooter.

Good News: Dugas says that the emotional reward should be enough for doing most things, as it relates to the plot, and not just "I want to get a reward for doing this".

Awesome News: There is a hint that we will be getting region-specific hitpoint damage on the PC due to the precision of the mouse, whereas this is impossible on consoles.

Good News: The game takes advantage of DirectX11.

Bad News: He doesn't really back his claims that it has not been simplified with any examples of how.

Bad News: He talks about "action segments". What does this mean? If you want to play as Rambo? The times when the coat comes off? What?
More good news: Not using Kinect or Move. THANK GOODNESS. ;)

Kodaemon
14th Aug 2010, 19:47
Dugas: when the French Touch becomes bad touch.

Romeo
14th Aug 2010, 20:07
Dugas: when the French Touch becomes bad touch.
The French touch is never the bad touch, Kodaemon. :rolleyes:

xsamitt
14th Aug 2010, 21:55
This game is not in any way a logical progression of the Deus Ex 'franchise'

The natural progression of Deus Ex would be to scale way back on any violent aspects of the game, and delve right ahead into the virtual reality/immersive story elements using the technology of today to tell a story in the world of Deus Ex.

I could go for that.

Invictus Sol
15th Aug 2010, 01:08
I could go for that.

Yeah, I sort of don't know where that's coming from, since I liked to play a mix of stealth and vicious guns blazin' assault.

One of the things that made combat interesting in DX was the ability to hack bots (either through a console or the nano-grenade) and turrets and combine their attacks with one's own. The post you quoted indicates that violence is unintellectual and that DX's logical progression should be to a more cerebral, less violent, path. However, nothing in DX supports this.

Plus, it was posted in at least two threads, apropos of nothing, which delegitimizes it even as opinion, in my eyes.

rokstrombo
15th Aug 2010, 10:56
Good interview, thanks for posting!

I'm pleased that the players will be discouraged from choosing only the conversation and objective options that they believe will result in the most efficient character development. This is a very important consideration in games with RPG elements.

It seems like Eidos Montréal have finally allowed Dugas some discretion as to what information to reveal during interviews. Finally!

Xenoc
15th Aug 2010, 11:57
Which makes me guess that DX10 is required, so XP users won't be able to play the game.

not neccesarily, XP is alot more stable than vista...

SageSavage
15th Aug 2010, 12:07
not neccesarily, XP is alot more stable than vista...
You realize that there's Windows 7 now? The industry has grown up, you know... ;)

Nyysjan
15th Aug 2010, 15:41
You realize that there's Windows 7 now? The industry has grown up, you know... ;)

Personally i'm running on win7 (32bit) atm, and i can't do anything i could not do in XP, and there's quite a lot of things i can't do (like play DX, starcraft, Overlord 2), and my machine is lot less stable.
Partly due to my motherboard i think, seems windows7 does not support ATI cool&quiet technology, atleast not the one in my motherboard, had to use an older motherboar/processor to instal the OS and disable to C&Q from bios before i got it running, and even now it's unstable (not horrible so however, "merely" most days it doesn't crash more than twice).

Seriously, first time in my life when i actually buy a legal copy of windows and it won't work. :mad2:

So, i can't really fault people not wanting to move from XP (if i could get my money back i'd be tempted to go back to XP myself).

Romeo
15th Aug 2010, 15:49
I gotta say - I must've been the luckiest individual on the planet. The only times my Vista laptop has ever crashed has been when I've been trying to make it do too much (Supreme Commander with good graphics settings, zoomed in, with thousands of units active... It liked that). As for compatibility, the only game that didn't work was... INVISIBLE WAR. Some of you probably consider that a good thing, I was more like "Damn! Foiled again!" lol

Pretentious Old Man.
15th Aug 2010, 17:22
I gotta say - I must've been the luckiest individual on the planet. The only times my Vista laptop has ever crashed has been when I've been trying to make it do too much (Supreme Commander with good graphics settings, zoomed in, with thousands of units active... It liked that). As for compatibility, the only game that didn't work was... INVISIBLE WAR. Some of you probably consider that a good thing, I was more like "Damn! Foiled again!" lol

You're one of an extremely numerous group of people (to which I also belong) that have never had the remotest trouble with either Vista or 7, both of which are manifestly superior to XP both in their handling of RAM, multithreading, general memory use...everything really.

One thing that must be said is that neither OS likes older (XP era) hardware. However, this can be negated by...buying new hardware.

Also, it's quite rare for major compatibility issues to be as a result of the OS itself. For the person that was having trouble, you may need to download the DX9 direct link libraries (dlls) that do not come as standard on newer machines with DX10 or 11.

WildcatPhoenix
15th Aug 2010, 17:39
You're one of an extremely numerous group of people (to which I also belong) that have never had the remotest trouble with either Vista or 7, both of which are manifestly superior to XP both in their handling of RAM, multithreading, general memory use...everything really.

One thing that must be said is that neither OS likes older (XP era) hardware. However, this can be negated by...buying new hardware.


POM, this is exactly the problem people are complaining about.

I used to work at a call center for Dell right around the time Vista came out. The rumors were already swirling that a lot of hardware was incompatible with the new OS, and our sales managers would hold weekly "strategy meetings" to tell us how to combat people's resistance to switching to Vista. Basically, they told us to lie about how we personally used Vista systems and had no problems at all (I had recently made the switch, and absolutely loathed Vista for a myriad of reasons).

The "buy new hardware" mantra is precisely the reason Vista was engineered the way it is. Microsoft wants you to go out and buy new peripherals: printers, graphics cards, speakers/sound systems, etc. These are "high margin" items that are literally almost 90% profit (believe me, we put used car salesmen to shame pushing these items on customers!) Printers especially. Printers equal big profit on toner reloads, paper, and wireless setup. Windows 7, like Vista before it, was designed to make sure more of that "pie" goes to Microsoft and its partners.

And that, to me, is a problem.

xsamitt
15th Aug 2010, 17:42
POM, this is exactly the problem people are complaining about.

I used to work at a call center for Dell right around the time Vista came out. The rumors were already swirling that a lot of hardware was incompatible with the new OS, and our sales managers would hold weekly "strategy meetings" to tell us how to combat people's resistance to switching to Vista. Basically, they told us to lie about how we personally used Vista systems and had no problems at all (I had recently made the switch, and absolutely loathed Vista for a myriad of reasons).

The "buy new hardware" mantra is precisely the reason Vista was engineered the way it is. Microsoft wants you to go out and buy new peripherals: printers, graphics cards, speakers/sound systems, etc. These are "high margin" items that are literally almost 90% profit (believe me, we put used car salesmen to shame pushing these items on customers!) Printers especially. Printers equal big profit on toner reloads, paper, and wireless setup. Windows 7, like Vista before it, was designed to make sure more of that "pie" goes to Microsoft and its partners.

And that, to me, is a problem.

The truth has finally come out.Can't say I'm surprised though.

Pretentious Old Man.
15th Aug 2010, 17:52
POM, this is exactly the problem people are complaining about.

I used to work at a call center for Dell right around the time Vista came out. The rumors were already swirling that a lot of hardware was incompatible with the new OS, and our sales managers would hold weekly "strategy meetings" to tell us how to combat people's resistance to switching to Vista. Basically, they told us to lie about how we personally used Vista systems and had no problems at all (I had recently made the switch, and absolutely loathed Vista for a myriad of reasons).

The "buy new hardware" mantra is precisely the reason Vista was engineered the way it is. Microsoft wants you to go out and buy new peripherals: printers, graphics cards, speakers/sound systems, etc. These are "high margin" items that are literally almost 90% profit (believe me, we put used car salesmen to shame pushing these items on customers!) Printers especially. Printers equal big profit on toner reloads, paper, and wireless setup. Windows 7, like Vista before it, was designed to make sure more of that "pie" goes to Microsoft and its partners.

And that, to me, is a problem.

It was a problem in 2006. If you have incompatible hardware now, then frankly it's time for an upgrade. 4 years and 2 operating systems have gone by. I didn't get Vista until 2008, by which time all the hardware worked with it. Simples.

Nyysjan
15th Aug 2010, 18:39
It was a problem in 2006. If you have incompatible hardware now, then frankly it's time for an upgrade. 4 years and 2 operating systems have gone by. I didn't get Vista until 2008, by which time all the hardware worked with it. Simples.

I bought my motherboard and processor 2 years ago, sure it wasn't they newest models they had, nor the most expensive, but i've had no issues with them, apart the win7 incompatibility (i bought win7 1 year after i got my motherboard/processor), and the funny thing is, there is no incompatibility issues with my even older motherboard, wich is 5 years old (and was the cheapest i could find at the time).

Also, the processing power has not gone up in the past 2 years enough that i need to upgrade, if i have to use hundreds of euros to upgrade to use an OS, that does not really give me anything substantial with it, i don't see the point.

Pretentious Old Man.
15th Aug 2010, 18:44
I bought my motherboard and processor 2 years ago, sure it wasn't they newest models they had, nor the most expensive, but i've had no issues with them, apart the win7 incompatibility (i bought win7 1 year after i got my motherboard/processor), and the funny thing is, there is no incompatibility issues with my even older motherboard, wich is 5 years old (and was the cheapest i could find at the time).

Also, the processing power has not gone up in the past 2 years enough that i need to upgrade, if i have to use hundreds of euros to upgrade to use an OS, that does not really give me anything substantial with it, i don't see the point.

I be willing to bet a Pound to a Penny (or a Euro to a Cent!) that the incompatibility does not lie with Win7and a piece of hardware, but with the driver software. I know that everyone always says this, but are you *sure* all your hardware is running the latest drivers? There really is no reason that a 2 year old mobo should conflict with 7 in any way.

Delever
15th Aug 2010, 18:50
There really can't be other problem than missing or broken drivers: let me know which manufacturer does not provide drivers 2 years after motherboard release.

Nyysjan
15th Aug 2010, 18:53
There were some vista drivers for the motherboard, no win7 stuff though, used the vista ones but the problem persists till today. :(
It's old motherboard, was not that new when i bought it, but not that old imo.
It works as long as i keep cool n quiet disabled, just can´t instal or repair it on the motherboard, good thing i have an older one i can use for that when i need.

I will upgrade as soon as i can, but using am2 socket with ddr2 memory, but don't really see a point in a sidegrade so would need to go for am3 and ddr3, or more likely switch to intel, and then i'd need to buy new memory as well as a motherboard and processor, wich, assuming i want to get something that is a clear upgrade instead of just a sidegrade or marginal upgrade, costs.
and currently i'm barely paying my rent intime as is. :(

Romeo
15th Aug 2010, 21:06
The thing I always recall, and find utterly hilarious, is how people still moaned about how problematic XP was when it came out. Then Vista. Then 7. It's literally impossible to please people, because you either release an updated OS, which may be more CPU-intensive and requires different drivers, or you don't, and annoy people for not making anything new. They should just act like Apple and release a new OS every 17 minutes. =D

Pretentious Old Man.
16th Aug 2010, 00:28
The thing I always recall, and find utterly hilarious, is how people still moaned about how problematic XP was when it came out. Then Vista. Then 7. It's literally impossible to please people, because you either release an updated OS, which may be more CPU-intensive and requires different drivers, or you don't, and annoy people for not making anything new. They should just act like Apple and release a new OS every 17 minutes. =D

No (http://www.nooooooooooooooo.com/).

MaxxQ1
16th Aug 2010, 04:18
PC Gamers have had plenty of time to make the move to Win 7 x64 and DirectX 10/11 hardware. About time that old API was phased out...though that's a totally different discussion. I'm just very glad the PC is getting the premo graphics treatment. :)

PC gamers may have had the time, but some of us PC gamers haven't had the money. I have to wait for my tax return early next year before I can even *think* about getting Win7. Hopefully, the game will be released sometime after late February - early March.

Would have gotten 7 early this year if I hadn't had to get a new(ish) car.

Pretty much everything else in my comp is already DirectX 10/11-ready, although I will probably upgrade the videocard, possibly the soundcard, and definitely add more RAM...

... provided my current car doesn't crap out. :rolleyes:

rokstrombo
16th Aug 2010, 06:16
Windows 7 seems to have a lot of neat features from what I've read, but it also seems to be absolutely massive. Is it really that much faster than Windows Vista or are the reported speed improvements largely related to the updated hardware in current PCs?

Pinky_Powers
16th Aug 2010, 06:31
Windows 7 seems to have a lot of neat features from what I've read, but it also seems to be absolutely massive. Is it really that much faster than Windows Vista or are the reported speed improvements largely related to the updated hardware in current PCs?

I thought it looked smaller on my C: drive than Vista did, actually.

And yeah, it is certainly faster, and requires less Ram to run. These things are important for keeping the system speedy.

Red
16th Aug 2010, 08:18
So the Eurogamer talked with Dugas about Windows 7 and Windows XP? Interesting...

Pinky_Powers
16th Aug 2010, 09:15
So the Eurogamer talked with Dugas about Windows 7 and Windows XP? Interesting...

I know. It's like they're both weaselly Microsoft lackies.

Nyysjan
16th Aug 2010, 13:57
personally, i haven't really seen any real improvement on speed, if there is any it's so little as to be unnoticeable (or i don't do anything that would require xp to go to it's limits).

I don't really see any real use of win7 for someone who only uses his computer for gaming and surfing the net.
It does have some nifty features that make it more user friendly, but not enough to make it worth the cost or the incompatibility issues on older hardware.

but this is only my personal opinion.

edit-
sorry, no real difference from xp to win7, haven't tried vista

Pretentious Old Man.
16th Aug 2010, 15:40
^^They are really world's apart, mate, and in more ways than User interface. Sure, if you only want to browse the net, then there's no need, but then, if that's so, then why not just use a Pentium IV with a 64MB onboard Intel graphics chip? On a gaming site, I think its only understandable that most people here would see Win7's use of memory and performance increased (as well as D3D11) as being a mighty needed thing. :)

Plus, if you want to do image editing with something like Photoshop, (and haven't got a MAC like most of these types seem to), then RAM use is absolutely critical.

Cronstintein
16th Aug 2010, 17:34
@Nyysjan That might be because xp was less resource intensive than vista. So the difference between xp and w7 might not be that noticeable. I imagine it's much more stable, however. XP tended to crash occasionally, at least in my experience.

Nyysjan
16th Aug 2010, 17:49
^^They are really world's apart, mate, and in more ways than User interface. Sure, if you only want to browse the net, then there's no need, but then, if that's so, then why not just use a Pentium IV with a 64MB onboard Intel graphics chip? On a gaming site, I think its only understandable that most people here would see Win7's use of memory and performance increased (as well as D3D11) as being a mighty needed thing. :)

Plus, if you want to do image editing with something like Photoshop, (and haven't got a MAC like most of these types seem to), then RAM use is absolutely critical.

but that's the thing, i do play games, and have not seen any real difference in resource use.
ofcourse even the newest games i play are more than year old (DA:O, ME2) so that might be it.


@Nyysjan That might be because xp was less resource intensive than vista. So the difference between xp and w7 might not be that noticeable. I imagine it's much more stable, however. XP tended to crash occasionally, at least in my experience.

oddly, i never had any crashes with xp, i get them all the time now. :)

pringlepower
16th Aug 2010, 19:05
but that's the thing, i do play games, and have not seen any real difference in resource use.
ofcourse even the newest games i play are more than year old (DA:O, ME2) so that might be it.



oddly, i never had any crashes with xp, i get them all the time now. :)

ME2 is 7 months old. I love how everyone thinks it's old.

Jerion
16th Aug 2010, 19:09
Has it really been seven months already? Wow.

pringlepower
16th Aug 2010, 19:11
Has it really been seven months already? Wow.

Not even Dragon Age is a year old yet. It's only 9 months.

Pretentious Old Man.
16th Aug 2010, 19:26
...which is why the rapid development of the (franklyitsgonnabecrap) DA:O2 is a perfect example of the direction that Bioware is going in. It's not the old Bio Ware that we all know and love any more, folks.

pringlepower
16th Aug 2010, 19:29
...which is why the rapid development of the (franklyitsgonnabecrap) DA:O2 is a perfect example of the direction that Bioware is going in. It's not the old Bio Ware that we all know and love any more, folks.

Patience. Let's just see if Bioware's anti-EA vaccines took hold.

Pretentious Old Man.
16th Aug 2010, 19:50
Patience. Let's just see if Bioware's anti-EA vaccines took hold.

I'm sure it will be an excellent, console hack and slash. Sadly, for me, and for a bioware product, that is an oxymoron.

pringlepower
16th Aug 2010, 19:56
I'm sure it will be an excellent, console hack and slash. Sadly, for me, and for a bioware product, that is an oxymoron.

You judge it only on scant details and your own prejudice? You sir, are a racist!

Gordon_Shea
16th Aug 2010, 20:13
...which is why the rapid development of the (franklyitsgonnabecrap) DA:O2 is a perfect example of the direction that Bioware is going in. It's not the old Bio Ware that we all know and love any more, folks.

Bioware was never that great, to be honest. I dunno how you can expect anything from a company that views Hero With A Thousand Faces as an instruction manual for how to write plots. BG2 was good, but the plot was just a torrent of largely non-interactive words and fights that were shown up by IWD2.

Pinky_Powers
17th Aug 2010, 03:06
Bioware was never that great, to be honest. I dunno how you can expect anything from a company that views Hero With A Thousand Faces as an instruction manual for how to write plots. BG2 was good, but the plot was just a torrent of largely non-interactive words and fights that were shown up by IWD2.

You sir, are a small, sad creep of a fellow. In the end, it doesn't really matter if they reuse their favorite formulas again and again. Their games still turn out exceedingly brilliant. BG, KotOR, NWN, ME. These are just outstanding games that make other RPGs seem measly and hollow in comparison.

Give me a formulaic Bioware game over a Bethesda title, with plot, characters and sidequests that lack any heart at all.


I will express a concern that Bioware may be losing some of their flare of late. Mass Effect 2 possessed a weaker story than its predecessor. Dragon Age may be my least favorite of all their projects. And yet... ME2 swept me away completely with their characters (and the stories that followed them), and the gameplay was significantly more fun than the first. And DA:O... I played it all the way, and was never bored.

Whatever. You got me riled. You're notions are ridiculous and you're blind to quality.

rokstrombo
17th Aug 2010, 04:14
You sir, are a small, sad creep of a fellow. :lol:

Gordon_Shea
17th Aug 2010, 04:57
You sir, are a small, sad creep of a fellow. In the end, it doesn't really matter if they reuse their favorite formulas again and again. Their games still turn out exceedingly brilliant. BG, KotOR, NWN, ME. These are just outstanding games that make other RPGs seem measly and hollow in comparison.
Not really. I mean, KotOR was a really bland retread of EVERY star wars thing ever and ME has terrible shootin' and an extremely derivative and noninteractive plot. Plus I thought everyone agreed NWN's single-player campaign was totally awful.


Give me a formulaic Bioware game over a Bethesda title, with plot, characters and sidequests that lack any heart at all.
Ah, I see the disconnect. You think that hitting the same notes over and over again with really obtuse and unnatural dialogue counts as heart. Pro-Tip: Daddy Issues and an unrealistic proliferation of I-Statements do not well-rounded characters make.



I will express a concern that Bioware may be losing some of their flare of late. Mass Effect 2 possessed a weaker story than its predecessor. Dragon Age may be my least favorite of all their projects. And yet... ME2 swept me away completely with their characters (and the stories that followed them), and the gameplay was significantly more fun than the first. And DA:O... I played it all the way, and was never bored.
ME2 had a lot of character studies that basically boiled down to Daddy Issues. There's an image meme about this, somewhere, but the gist of it is that virtually all of your party members has a backstory/loyalty mission that breaks down to Daddy Issues. Sometimes it's creative, like said party member will be a father whose son has daddy issues. Yeah. real quality writing there, sport.

DA:O's problems are even more endemic. Setting aside the astonishing fact that in trying to get as far and hard away from bland Tolkien-style fantasy as they could, they actually made a game that's MORE derivative of Tolkien than most modern fantasy, the game has this problem where it has two stories and the interesting one goes away after the tutorial and doesn't show up again until right before the final battle. On top of that it's got the same NPCs as every other Bioware game and weaksauce WoWified combat roles and skill trees.

They don't write well, they don't produce good gameplay, and it's not like any of their games have the scope of, say, BG2, which had a large enough and well-populated enough world to make up for its numerous defects. All they have going for them is high production values, and I'm sorry if I don't thin an exceptionally well polished game is worth it if the gameplay is bland and the writing is uninspired.

ercpkr
17th Aug 2010, 05:02
The time for CGI is over. With the next instalment in the Deus Ex series nearer to its "early 2011" release, the time for gameplay has arrived. And Eurogamer has it: Deus Ex: Human Revolution's first gameplay trailer, below, for your viewing pleasure.

But that's not all. Here, we chat with lead designer Jean-François Dugas about his inspiration, the action RPG split and, of course, Mr Warren Spector.

Eurogamer: A lot of people looked at your reveal trailer and thought "What the **** is this ****?" Was **** an influence?

Jean-François Dugas: It was an influence. It was not the only one.

Of course, Blade Runner defined the cyber-punk archetypes, we definitely looked at it for the first time, but we dismissed it in favor of far better source material from glorious Nipon like Ghost in the Shell, some Japanese anime, even some not so good movies.

Eurogamer: Like what?

Jean-François Dugas: Super Robot Future Sentai. But also good old movies like Robot Cop Fighting Knight - that was fun to watch again.

We also dug into some of the books, Ray Kurzweil and other authors that are big into transhumanism. We looked at pretty much everything we could. Greek mythology as well. It was all over the place in our trailers. I hope the audience caught what the central themes were.

The challenge was, okay, a lot of cool ideas from a lot of different places, but how do you mix it up into one current thing that is going to work on itself and is not going to feel like a rip-off of something else? We needed to make this as different from Deus Ex as possible or else people might think we ripped them off!

Eurogamer: How much of a modern day shooter is this? What's the action RPG blend?

Jean-François Dugas: It's the same blend of first-person shooter slash RPG that the first game was.

Honestly, I know when we said it's going to have auto-regen and a cover system and shooting is not going to be stat-based anymore, a lot of people went, "oh my God! Now they're doing just an action game and it's all about running around and shooting."

It's a fair concern when you just hear that this way. I totally understand it. But it has never been our goal to transform Gears of War into a Deus Ex game in any way except the name.

Yes we did do some things differently from the first game, or even the second game. But in the end it's still the same experience as Gears of War.

You have a challenge that's not necessarily easy. It's not the case that because the shooting is more straightforward and you have regen that you're going to be invincible.

You'll have to think. You'll have to look around you and maybe find other ways than just shoot and see what happens. You need to aim first or maybe find some cover. FPS these days are very tactical like that.

Where Deus Ex stands out from other shooter games, that's when Deus Ex is encouraging you to do other things than shooting. Like aiming and shooting or performing takedowns.

The RPG element of that is, you need to build a character for how you want to play. You have to interact with a lot of people. And you have to make decisions that will have some effect on some aspects of the story. So essentially, you're part of a storyline, and you have stats. This is what makes it an RPG.

It's not going to be more of an action game than the other ones. It's just when you're in an action segment it's going to be more straightforward. We'll have bright neon signs showing you who the bad guys are instead of that tiny little aiming reticule.

Eurogamer: What's your favourite quest and what's the most difficult decision the player will have to make?

Jean-François Dugas: I'm not sure I'm allowed to answer this. The public can't know that the game is completely linear and there are no decisions the player can make that aren't part of the storyline, as keeping with the tradition of Square Enix games.

Eurogamer: How will Deus Ex emotionally engage players on an adult and intelligent level?

Jean-François Dugas: I cannot say it does that.

Eurogamer: How many endings will the game have? What choices will determine the endings?

Jean-François Dugas: I don't want to reveal too much. What I can tell you is yes, we have multiple endings. At some moment in the game where you'll be facing an important decision to make, it's going to influence your ending. This decision is which gun to use. If you make the wrong decision, you die and get the "bad game over". If you don't die, you get the "good game over" eventually.

Eurogamer: How big is the game? Is it as big as a completely unrelated sandbox game such as Fallout 3. How long will it take to finish?

Jean-François Dugas: On the critical path it's roughly 20 hours. If you explore beyond the critical path to find all the secrets and all the side quests and the secondary objectives, it's going to clock roughly at 30 hours.

Roughly half this time is made up of cutscenes.

Eurogamer: Once you've finished the game, will you be able to replay it with a new game plus option? Because many previous Deus Ex had that feature.

Jean-François Dugas: That's something we're still looking into doing if we have the time to do it. Because it's such a tremendous effort and all.

Eurogamer: How does the PC version differ from the console versions, if at all?

Jean-François Dugas: It'll have better graphics.

Eurogamer: Will you need a powerful PC to play it?

Jean-François Dugas: I'm going to evade the question because the studio head is looking at me and shaking his head.

Eurogamer: Deus Ex will be released early next year. Kinect and PlayStation Move will be released very soon. Will the game support them in any way?

Jean-François Dugas: Hahaha, no.

Eurogamer: Will the game be playable in 3D?

Jean-François Dugas: I can't... give... negative answers... so... maybe

Eurogamer: Have you spoken to Warren Spector about the game?

Jean-François Dugas: Who's he?

Fixed.

(Just trying to be humorously pessimistic, not troll).

rokstrombo
17th Aug 2010, 05:18
Hehehe nice work. You're a cynical pessimist. That'll play well around here :D

Cronstintein
17th Aug 2010, 05:27
Yeah I got a couple chuckles on the outside while sobbing on the inside. :lol: :(

pringlepower
17th Aug 2010, 13:58
Not really. I mean, KotOR was a really bland retread of EVERY star wars thing ever and ME has terrible shootin' and an extremely derivative and noninteractive plot. Plus I thought everyone agreed NWN's single-player campaign was totally awful.


Ah, I see the disconnect. You think that hitting the same notes over and over again with really obtuse and unnatural dialogue counts as heart. Pro-Tip: Daddy Issues and an unrealistic proliferation of I-Statements do not well-rounded characters make.



ME2 had a lot of character studies that basically boiled down to Daddy Issues. There's an image meme about this, somewhere, but the gist of it is that virtually all of your party members has a backstory/loyalty mission that breaks down to Daddy Issues. Sometimes it's creative, like said party member will be a father whose son has daddy issues. Yeah. real quality writing there, sport.

DA:O's problems are even more endemic. Setting aside the astonishing fact that in trying to get as far and hard away from bland Tolkien-style fantasy as they could, they actually made a game that's MORE derivative of Tolkien than most modern fantasy, the game has this problem where it has two stories and the interesting one goes away after the tutorial and doesn't show up again until right before the final battle. On top of that it's got the same NPCs as every other Bioware game and weaksauce WoWified combat roles and skill trees.

They don't write well, they don't produce good gameplay, and it's not like any of their games have the scope of, say, BG2, which had a large enough and well-populated enough world to make up for its numerous defects. All they have going for them is high production values, and I'm sorry if I don't thin an exceptionally well polished game is worth it if the gameplay is bland and the writing is uninspired.

Wasn't BG2 one of their games?

Pretentious Old Man.
17th Aug 2010, 16:52
Wasn't BG2 one of their games?

Yes. But you have to admit, most BG2 characters were pretty weak, even the mighty Minsc is quite a shallow character.

pringlepower
17th Aug 2010, 16:58
Yes. But you have to admit, most BG2 characters were pretty weak, even the mighty Minsc is quite a shallow character.

I thought Jaheria and Viconia were pretty strong characters. And Edwin was the ****.

Speaking of Bioware.... whooo DA2 cinematic trailer that tells us nothing!

And come on, Jon "The Boss" Irenicus. He was pretty dern strong.

Pretentious Old Man.
17th Aug 2010, 17:08
I thought Jaheria and Viconia were pretty strong characters. And Edwin was the ****.

Speaking of Bioware.... whooo DA2 cinematic trailer that tells us nothing!

And come on, Jon "The Boss" Irenicus. He was pretty dern strong.

Actually, yes, I must agree that Jon "Bringin' out yo' potential" Irenicus was one of the best Bioware characters in any of their games.

And if I am a racist, then you sir, are a fanboy! :nut:

pringlepower
17th Aug 2010, 17:55
Actually, yes, I must agree that Jon "Bringin' out yo' potential" Irenicus was one of the best Bioware characters in any of their games.

And if I am a racist, then you sir, are a fanboy! :nut:

And proud of it! I'm all giddy after that trailer now.

Pretentious Old Man.
17th Aug 2010, 19:55
And proud of it! I'm all giddy after that trailer now.

Tsk, call yourself a Bioware fan. Most of the Bioware fans I know are writing them poison pen letters as we speak over that trailer. :whistle::D

pringlepower
17th Aug 2010, 20:37
Tsk, call yourself a Bioware fan. Most of the Bioware fans I know are writing them poison pen letters as we speak over that trailer. :whistle::D

It's a cinematic trailer. I'll take it for what it is. On that note, swordstaves that shoot fire = cool. Likewise, flaming portals that make your hands a lot larger and more badass = cool.

Pretentious Old Man.
17th Aug 2010, 20:59
It's a cinematic trailer. I'll take it for what it is. On that note, swordstaves that shoot fire = cool. Likewise, flaming portals that make your hands a lot larger and more badass = cool.

I think you may be an Infinity Ward fanboy in disguise. :rasp:

Romeo
18th Aug 2010, 01:52
I think you may be an Infinity Ward fanboy in disguise. :rasp:
In hiding is more like it. :rasp:

pringlepower
18th Aug 2010, 02:38
In hiding is more like it. :rasp:

I'm all ghillied up.

Romeo
18th Aug 2010, 02:39
I'm all ghillied up.
OH GOD HELP ME, I GOT THAT REFERENCE. lol

pringlepower
18th Aug 2010, 02:40
OH GOD HELP ME, I GOT THAT REFERENCE. lol

Hate CoD all you want, Price is a badass.

Gordon_Shea
18th Aug 2010, 03:53
Wasn't BG2 one of their games?

Yeah but it was basically the last one that was any good, and even then it wasn't the best Infinity Engine game (Torment was a better Roleplaying Experience, IWD/IWD2 had better fights, etc.)

Pretentious Old Man.
18th Aug 2010, 23:24
Yeah but it was basically the last one that was any good, and even then it wasn't the best Infinity Engine game (Torment was a better Roleplaying Experience, IWD/IWD2 had better fights, etc.)

Torment was good but flawed. I would argue that BG2 was the best Infinity game all round, if not in any individual facet.

Torment's story, music, characters, dialogue options and graphical style will remain unbeaten, but even I as a Torment fan must confess, the actual gameplay itself was terrible. Icewind Dale, of course, was the other way around.

Say what you will of BG2, it had good (but not the best) roleplaying AND gameplay.

Gordon_Shea
19th Aug 2010, 01:41
Torment was good but flawed. I would argue that BG2 was the best Infinity game all round, if not in any individual facet.

Torment's story, music, characters, dialogue options and graphical style will remain unbeaten, but even I as a Torment fan must confess, the actual gameplay itself was terrible. Icewind Dale, of course, was the other way around.

Say what you will of BG2, it had good (but not the best) roleplaying AND gameplay.

I guess it's just a difference in how much value we put on different things. For me, averaging out better than the others doesn't really help its standing.

Not that it really matters. Modern Bioware games are leading the charge in highly linear, consolized, formulaic crap. :(

Fluffis
19th Aug 2010, 01:47
Say what you will of BG2, it had good (but not the best) roleplaying AND gameplay.

It also had Jon F-ing Irenicus. Arguably one of the best villains ever made. "This woman had power, of a sort. She lost her parents to plague, her husband to war, but she persevered. She was well respected, her farm was prosperous and her children were well fed. And now she's dead."

What can I say... David Warner, man.

pringlepower
19th Aug 2010, 02:24
I guess it's just a difference in how much value we put on different things. For me, averaging out better than the others doesn't really help its standing.

Not that it really matters. Modern Bioware games are leading the charge in highly linear, consolized, formulaic crap. :(

Oh I don't mind the formulas. Always nice to have some romance. You see, Morrigan was sexy stuff. Mmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm

pringlepower
19th Aug 2010, 02:25
It also had Jon F-ing Irenicus. Arguably one of the best villains ever made. "This woman had power, of a sort. She lost her parents to plague, her husband to war, but she persevered. She was well respected, her farm was prosperous and her children were well fed. And now she's dead."

What can I say... David Warner, man.

How do you defeat your enemy? Make him stronger... then drag him into hell and take his power. Bwhahaha

As if that pansy boy Page could've thought of that.

Pretentious Old Man.
19th Aug 2010, 13:37
Ah, Fluffis. You act sooner than I had anticipated. No matter.

But yes, indeed, the Illusive man is a mere shadow of the great Jon Irenicus.