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Jashin
8th Aug 2010, 05:21
I was browsing the new gallery on RPS when I noticed this. I highlighted them in the pic.

http://img337.imageshack.us/img337/4416/art12.jpg

Right away I notice two signs in there that are backwards, which instantly make 'em not legitimate signs, but gibberish.

The original Deus Ex had this problem too, several spots in Hong Kong had neon signs that are flipped horizontally, the word "police" on the police military bot texture, etc. Now, Ion Storm's medium-sized and from Austin, DX3 development is humongous and in Montreal, there's no excuse for amateur blunders like these.

Get somebody to proofread this stuff. Maybe you already have. I sincerely hope that when I pick up HR I don't spot this kind of mistake in the game.

Corpus
8th Aug 2010, 12:02
I was browsing the new gallery on RPS when I noticed this. I highlighted them in the pic.

http://img337.imageshack.us/img337/4416/art12.jpg

Right away I notice two signs in there that are backwards, which instantly make 'em not legitimate signs, but gibberish.

The original Deus Ex had this problem too, several spots in Hong Kong had neon signs that are flipped horizontally, the word "police" on the police military bot texture, etc. Now, Ion Storm's medium-sized and from Austin, DX3 development is humongous and in Montreal, there's no excuse for amateur blunders like these.

Get somebody to proofread this stuff. Maybe you already have. I sincerely hope that when I pick up HR I don't spot this kind of mistake in the game.

Its just concept art. They don't have to make everything perfect and not everything will make it into game. Do you honestly think they'll include the bush wanted poster in the Detroit police station?

rokstrombo
8th Aug 2010, 14:28
Assuming that these specific mistakes will be present in the game itself, are they really such a big deal?

They may be amateur blunders, but the game is purported to be huge. With around 100 brands created for the game (some of them possibly displayed in multiple configurations), using at least two languages, as well as the thousands of textures used throughout the maps, I think it's reasonable that a few of them may be inadequate or used incorrectly. An obstacle towards solving these specific mistakes is that not every level designer and QA play-tester may be able to read in Chinese. This aside, that image is concept art as Corpus pointed out.

Invictus Sol
9th Aug 2010, 00:19
I was browsing the new gallery on RPS when I noticed this. I highlighted them in the pic.

http://img337.imageshack.us/img337/4416/art12.jpg

Right away I notice two signs in there that are backwards, which instantly make 'em not legitimate signs, but gibberish.

The original Deus Ex had this problem too, several spots in Hong Kong had neon signs that are flipped horizontally, the word "police" on the police military bot texture, etc. Now, Ion Storm's medium-sized and from Austin, DX3 development is humongous and in Montreal, there's no excuse for amateur blunders like these.

Get somebody to proofread this stuff. Maybe you already have. I sincerely hope that when I pick up HR I don't spot this kind of mistake in the game.

Have you noticed the amount of 'Engrish' in real life? Chinese companies that make a lot of money in North America don't bother to get Manderin/Cantonese >> English proof readers for products they sell domestically (along with English signs for tourists in China, Japan and elsewhere that are totally non-sensical to English speakers -- not that I take offense to it, really, who cares) and you expect a game developer of a fictional world to have perfect Cantonese/Manderin when maybe, what, 5% (being very generous) of the people playing the game would even notice and it will have zero impact on the number of games sold?

There have been some ridiculous complaints about this game, but that's the most anal by far. Congratulations, sir!

pringlepower
9th Aug 2010, 01:31
Have you noticed the amount of 'Engrish' in real life? Chinese companies that make a lot of money in North America don't bother to get Manderin/Cantonese >> English proof readers for products they sell domestically (along with English signs for tourists in China, Japan and elsewhere that are totally non-sensical to English speakers -- not that I take offense to it, really, who cares) and you expect a game developer of a fictional world to have perfect Cantonese/Manderin when maybe, what, 5% (being very generous) of the people playing the game would even notice and it will have zero impact on the number of games sold?

There have been some ridiculous complaints about this game, but that's the most anal by far. Congratulations, sir!

Reminds me of a post on NMA back in the day that said Fallout 3 was sh1t because the currency was bottle caps, instead of coinage as used in Fallout 2.

Who Watches Me
9th Aug 2010, 03:59
People really like to be extremely picky, which is found to be disgusting by many.

If they make an english company text logo and it’s backwards, I’ll just say, hey, look they trying to be stylish. lol ;)

mr_cyberpunk
9th Aug 2010, 07:24
Hate to tell the OP this, but Deus Ex 1 even used the same method. I know because when me and Dave did New Vision we talked about this exact issue. In the end we just traced over the images rather than use a proper Chinese font- it was far easier.

Even Ion Storm did this, so I don't see what the problem is.


Reminds me of a post on NMA back in the day that said Fallout 3 was sh1t because the currency was bottle caps, instead of coinage as used in Fallout 2.

Hold on this is a legit concern though, really there should have been 3 separate currencies in Fallout 3, Bottle Caps, Coins and BOS-Bills (since this is set after Fallout Tactics). Given this was actually a gameplay device, it should have stayed in. (the idea was to gimp the player if they were dealing with Tribals- because that'd mean you'd have to resort to pure haggle/trade instead of buying things. It was a very smart idea and made the whole Barter skill all that more useful.)

Kodaemon
9th Aug 2010, 08:06
Hate to tell the OP this, but Deus Ex 1 even used the same method.


The original Deus Ex had this problem too

:rolleyes:

Corpus
9th Aug 2010, 10:53
Another thing, does JC even speak chinese/mandarin?

Does Adam? If they didn't then technically there would be no need for the signs to be correct. Immersion factor. You are playing as a guy in a foreign country where he doesn't know the native language.

Kodaemon
9th Aug 2010, 11:04
Sorry, but that doesn't make any sense whatsoever.

Corpus
9th Aug 2010, 11:28
Sorry, but that doesn't make any sense whatsoever.

Well if the character cant speak or understand the language what would be the point in having accurate signs?
You are immersing yourself in his role so why would it matter?

Kodaemon
9th Aug 2010, 11:32
So, if I'd be playing an alien who crashlanded on Earth, it would be ok for the game to feature three-headed people because my character doesn't know humans are not supposed to have three heads?... It just feels absurdly solipsist :/

Corpus
9th Aug 2010, 11:36
So, if I'd be playing an alien who crashlanded on Earth, it would be ok for the game to feature three-headed people because my character doesn't know humans are not supposed to have three heads?... It just feels absurdly solipsist :/

Thats a way more drastic change, these are just simple signs. Once again, are they that important to gameplay and narrative?
Its hardly solipsist, thats exactly how it would be if you were there in his position.

Kodaemon
9th Aug 2010, 11:39
I'm saying, for people who do know chinese it lessens the immersion regardless of whether Adam knows it or not.

Corpus
9th Aug 2010, 11:41
I'm saying, for people who do know chinese it lessens the immersion regardless of whether Adam knows it or not.

Is it a benefit for the signs to be correct? You already quoted the other guys saying it was present in DX1 therefor you agree. Even if they were correct you could simply assume what is there if you can't go inside.

Kodaemon
9th Aug 2010, 11:45
Not a major priority of course, but attention to detail is always welcome.

And the quote was only to point out to mr_cyberpunk that Jashin already mentioned DX1 in the opening post. Is the fact DX1 had errors in this regard excuse enough for DX3 to also have them? :nut:

Corpus
9th Aug 2010, 11:46
Not a major priority of course, but attention to detail is always welcome.

And the quote was only to point out to mr_cyberpunk that Jashin already mentioned DX1 in the opening post. Is the fact DX1 had errors in this regard excuse enough for DX3 to also have them? :nut:

Pretty much since everyone wants HR to be like DX1 as much as possible :)

Kodaemon
9th Aug 2010, 11:47
Madhouse. This is a madhouse.

Corpus
9th Aug 2010, 11:47
We're part of the show.

Spyhopping
9th Aug 2010, 11:48
Kind of a redundant discussion, but the world is more immersive if it's believable. True, it doesn't make a huge difference to people who can't read the signs, but if it's correct it gives the world that little bit more richness and depth.

I guess it's like the bad accents in DX1. You realise in the Paris streets these are American voice actors putting on a kind of funny accent. No big deal, but it'd for sure add to the richness of the world if there were real French accents in there.

Corpus, Deus ex had its flaws, and it'd be bizarre if people wanted these carried these forward for the sake of HR being more like the original.

Corpus
9th Aug 2010, 11:59
Corpus, Deus ex had its flaws, and it'd be bizarre if people wanted these carried these forward for the sake of HR being more like the original.

Thats the joke. A jib at stereotypical elitists (who thankfully don't exist on these boards, we're not NMA).

Spyhopping
9th Aug 2010, 12:06
Yeah, DX1 "elitists" not on this forum or anywhere else for that matter.

I need to turn up my sarcasm detector.

xsamitt
9th Aug 2010, 13:07
To each their own but I loved the voice acting in DX1,All of it.Your millage may vary.

Irate_Iguana
9th Aug 2010, 13:32
Thats the joke. A jib at stereotypical elitists (who thankfully don't exist on these boards, we're not NMA).

If you'd read the discussions on that board you'd have found a pretty decent community willing to accept change for the better. Then again, I guess it is easier to just follow the hype.

Corpus
9th Aug 2010, 13:58
If you'd read the discussions on that board you'd have found a pretty decent community willing to accept change for the better. Then again, I guess it is easier to just follow the hype.

I know theres no one like that on this board its just a joke. People do want it to resemble the original DX to an extent, me included but I know for a fact no ones that pathetic to want a replication.

Angel-A
9th Aug 2010, 15:22
Most people playing this won't know a lick of what the foreign signs mean, but to people who DO know, this stuff is as glaringly obvious as typos in English.
Avoiding a reverse engrish incident would be nice if it's not too much trouble; it's not that difficult to get a fluent speaker, is it? Considering that one seems to have popped up on the boards.

Pretentious Old Man.
9th Aug 2010, 15:34
Just to be pedantic, that's not neon. Don't confuse a lit up sign at night, or night televisions, with neon.

This is neon:

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/9/94/Beauty_Supply_Neon_Sign.jpg

This is not:

http://www.johnnygoodtimes.com/times-square-1024x768.jpg

Jashin
9th Aug 2010, 15:36
It seems to me the people who come in and defend what is essentially typos are incredibly foolish.

If they proofread the transcript to make sure it's got no typos all over, so the characters don't come off as idjiotz, they can do the same for all the work that has gone into making the futuristic Shanghai pop with colors and vibrancy.

Defending mediocrity, are you kidding me?

oxoxoxo
9th Aug 2010, 16:40
^ what he said

Jerion
9th Aug 2010, 16:44
That image specifically looks like a paint-over, as opposed to true concept art. If so then it's a simple matter of a couple textures being improperly flipped, and nothing more. Easy fix, easy mistake to miss if the level designer doesn't know the language.

neoWilks
9th Aug 2010, 17:32
That image specifically looks like a paint-over, as opposed to true concept art. If so then it's a simple matter of a couple textures being improperly flipped, and nothing more. Easy fix, easy mistake to miss if the level designer doesn't know the language.
Right, same things popped up in early Fallout 3 concept art. It's just the artist taking shortcuts to save time and energy.

Still very possible stuff like this shows up, but I wouldn't take a quick bit of concept art (which isn't even necessarily in-house work) and consider that representative of the game.

avenging_teabag
9th Aug 2010, 17:47
People have to understand than for native speakers those kinds of mistakes can be extremely jarring. I've got used to games mutilating Russian seven ways from Sunday (the original DE was guilty of that too - what kind of a russian name is Navarre? And Juan Lebedev? Really, game? Why not name your protagonist JC Ivanov?). And it's not some obscure languages that get this treatment either. How hard it is for a developing company swimming in money to find some Mandarin translator or a native speaker? It's not a deal-breaker or anything, just extremely annoying.

I do hope these kind of careless mistakes will get sorted out before the game goes gold. Otherwise, it's just laziness.

pringlepower
9th Aug 2010, 18:33
People have to understand than for native speakers those kinds of mistakes can be extremely jarring. I've got used to games mutilating Russian seven ways from Sunday (the original DE was guilty of that too - what kind of a russian name is Navarre? And Juan Lebedev? Really, game? Why not name your protagonist JC Ivanov?). And it's not some obscure languages that get this treatment either. How hard it is for a developing company swimming in money to find some Mandarin translator or a native speaker? It's not a deal-breaker or anything, just extremely annoying.

I do hope these kind of careless mistakes will get sorted out before the game goes gold. Otherwise, it's just laziness.

They do have a Mandarin translator. Have you seen all the other signs? There's things like "Western-Physiology Clinic", not "Rice Rice Communism" or "I Love You Long Time"

Also apparently Anna Navarre is Israeli, which is even weirder.

P.S. "I SPEEEEL MY DREENK"

avenging_teabag
9th Aug 2010, 19:05
They do have a Mandarin translator. Have you seen all the other signs? There's things like "Western-Physiology Clinic", not "Rice Rice Communism" or "I Love You Long Time"

They could read "Freaky Monkey Egg Bazaar" for all I care, I don't know the language. But I see how these things could chafe a native speaker. As I said, not a huge deal, just kinda annoying.

Angel-A
9th Aug 2010, 22:07
They could read "Freaky Monkey Egg Bazaar" for all I care, I don't know the language. But I see how these things could chafe a native speaker. As I said, not a huge deal, just kinda annoying.
It makes no difference if you don't know the language, but it would have to be really disturbing to the bilingual among us to be reading absurd signs where the devs cleary didn't give two craps.

Invictus Sol
10th Aug 2010, 04:45
It seems to me the people who come in and defend what is essentially typos are incredibly foolish.

If they proofread the transcript to make sure it's got no typos all over, so the characters don't come off as idjiotz, they can do the same for all the work that has gone into making the futuristic Shanghai pop with colors and vibrancy.

Defending mediocrity, are you kidding me?

You've misunderstood the point. Basically, there is a lot of Engrish from companies in Asia who are selling expensive products here in North America. They make all kinds of comical mistakes but don't bother to hire competent proofreaders for whatever reason, even though they have a vested interest in appearing professional. How much less of an interest in that does the developer of a fictional game have when it will have no impact at all on the bottom line? As long as it looks good, I'm betting that they don't really care.

oxoxoxo
10th Aug 2010, 05:15
As long as it looks good, I'm betting that they don't really care.

and i thought mistakes make things look bad

Nyysjan
10th Aug 2010, 05:40
and i thought mistakes make things look bad

And in that, you are mistaken :p
<Insert a joke about foxnews and/or republican party here>

Angel-A
10th Aug 2010, 05:49
As long as it looks good, I'm betting that they don't really care.

Did you just sum up HR in a one-liner?

Invictus Sol
10th Aug 2010, 05:56
Did you just sum up HR in a one-liner?

Ha, possibly. We'll see, once the reviews come in from players and critics.

Corpus
10th Aug 2010, 12:53
Ha, possibly. We'll see, once the reviews come in from players and critics.

Or maybe we could just play it and decide for ourselves. I've learned not to trust critics anymore.

pringlepower
10th Aug 2010, 13:24
You've misunderstood the point. Basically, there is a lot of Engrish from companies in Asia who are selling expensive products here in North America. They make all kinds of comical mistakes but don't bother to hire competent proofreaders for whatever reason, even though they have a vested interest in appearing professional. How much less of an interest in that does the developer of a fictional game have when it will have no impact at all on the bottom line? As long as it looks good, I'm betting that they don't really care.

Hell they're had better be crappy English. Good English would destroy my suspension of disbelief.

Invictus Sol
10th Aug 2010, 15:11
Or maybe we could just play it and decide for ourselves. I've learned not to trust critics anymore.

Depends. What I read about IW (IIRC, the critcs slammed it, too) even after investing some time into the forums was enough to dissuade me from playing it (mind you, I also had more serious reservations about that game than I do with HR... universal ammo pretty much ensured I wouldn't bother with IW).

Angel-A
10th Aug 2010, 18:31
Hell they're had better be crappy English. Good English would destroy my suspension of disbelief.

Oh, gosh, yeah, the game is completely non-believeable if the Chinese can correctly spell their own language...

pringlepower
10th Aug 2010, 19:28
Oh, gosh, yeah, the game is completely non-believeable if the Chinese can correctly spell their own language...

ENGLISH. Cmon, what's China without:

http://www.crainium.net/jdjArchives/MoreEngrish.jpg

sharpie
17th Aug 2010, 11:41
So, if I'd be playing an alien who crashlanded on Earth, it would be ok for the game to feature three-headed people because my character doesn't know humans are not supposed to have three heads?... It just feels absurdly solipsist :/

(way late here) but, to make your example more comprable, it would be like aliens crashing in new york and the welcome to new york sign appears (in-game) as, "yew nork" because the aliens don't know the language. It's a stretch and kind of lazy to say that's the reason for it but, meh. (as in I agree that it should be minimized but mistakes happen and it's just a sign)