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mornaselos
29th Jul 2010, 17:55
For those of us who like to play rambo style, we can go on killing sprees in the game right?

Jerion
29th Jul 2010, 18:30
For those of us who like to play rambo style, we can go on killing sprees in the game right?

Yes. So long as you're fine with the consequences. And the terror on the faces of those you kill. And the mix of anguish and fury in the eyes of the family of each soldier you brutally murder with your bionic Stallone arms. You monster.


:p

St. Mellow
29th Jul 2010, 19:11
Yes. So long as you're fine with the consequences. And the terror on the faces of those you kill. And the mix of anguish and fury in the eyes of the family of each soldier you brutally murder with your bionic Stallone arms. You monster.


:p

Haters gonna hate. I do love a good ol' killing spree with gibs flying and splattering everywhere. Psycho? Who, me? Nah. :whistle:

ArthurBatusich
30th Jul 2010, 03:36
;1461008']Haters gonna hate. I do love a good ol' killing spree with gibs flying and splattering everywhere. Psycho? Who, me? Nah. :whistle:

-I think Eidos made the violence option in DX1 for those who want to be Rambo style, as well as some augmentations. For the technical ones, you can disable the gore, and have some "light" augs.

PS.: I go rambo, with targeting on, to know who i'm killing!:mad2:

DeusWhatever
1st Aug 2010, 18:09
Yes. So long as you're fine with the consequences. And the terror on the faces of those you kill. And the mix of anguish and fury in the eyes of the family of each soldier you brutally murder with your bionic Stallone arms. You monster.


:p

Nice, so there will be ingame-funerals for every person you killed? Or just little flashback Videos with the family of each soldier?

Still i wonder, if someone wants "Rambo" wouldnt it be better to buy "Rambo" instead of "The Jackal"?

Dead-Eye
1st Aug 2010, 22:39
I killed everyone I could in china before I left once... lol.

Spyhopping
1st Aug 2010, 23:10
I'd tend to save and then go on a huge killing spree when I'm just about to switch it off and go do something else. Seems to round things off quite nicely.

Corpus
2nd Aug 2010, 01:11
I'd tend to save and then go on a huge killing spree when I'm just about to switch it off and go do something else. Seems to round things off quite nicely.

I do this on pretty much every game I can.

St. Mellow
2nd Aug 2010, 14:09
I do this on pretty much every game I can.

Me too, it's great for anger management. Or a release valve for stress. Or even as a cure for fleeting boredom. "Screw this! Let's kill everyone."

Pinky_Powers
2nd Aug 2010, 14:39
I'd tend to save and then go on a huge killing spree when I'm just about to switch it off and go do something else. Seems to round things off quite nicely.

This is sort of my methodology on GTA games. I'll play through the missions until the game f**ks me one too many times, then I just go ape-$h1t until my head clears. Then I either try again or close out and do something else for a while.

I can't say this carries over to games like Deus Ex, though. I rarely act like a mutant villain in those.

pringlepower
2nd Aug 2010, 19:27
;1463498']Me too, it's great for anger management. Or a release valve for stress. Or even as a cure for fleeting boredom. "Screw this! Let's kill everyone."

It feels so good to spawn a hummer on top of the empire state building, get in, drop on the ground and explode taking out the civilian and police vehicles below you.

Angel-A
4th Aug 2010, 21:56
Murderous beast options are what give games the replay value.

Come on, sometimes, are you just really bored, and sometimes, dontcha think it would be really funny to just, ya know, play around, screw with the AIs and kill everyone and pile up their bodies... and, ya know...
http://img191.imageshack.us/img191/9492/deusex.png



These things happen.

Jerion
4th Aug 2010, 22:19
I don't need DX for my killing sprees. I have Just Cause 2! :D

alexchao
4th Aug 2010, 22:46
I'm all for momentarily discarding my suspension of disbelief and wreaking havoc once in a while, but one day... one day, my hope is that the level of immersion in games will genuinely start to temper this behavior by appealing to our intrinsically human sensibilities.

At least during the first playthrough... after that, go crazy. =)

Pinky_Powers
4th Aug 2010, 23:19
appealing to our intrinsically human sensibilities.


Falling back to your human sensibilities you will find murder holds a prominent seat. To find a place where violence and lust and greed don't rule, you must look ahead in human evolution, not within.

alexchao
5th Aug 2010, 00:21
Falling back to your human sensibilities you will find murder holds a prominent seat. To find a place where violence and lust and greed don't rule, you must look ahead in human evolution, not within.

Er, my mistake for not clarifying the context.

Murder with all sorts of deceitful, selfish intentions, yes... you're right. The precedent in human nature is definitely there. But wholesale man slaughter with more or less casual and recreational target selection -- of the killing-spree nature that Dead-Eye was referring to (i.e. running around Wan Chai with 20mm HE ammo loaded in the chamber) -- is, while still observable in our world, far less common.

The sensibilities I was referring to are the moral emotions, empathy, altruism, etc., but without a doubt, violence, greed, and lust are all intrinsic to the human experience. I was just trying to frame the statement in terms of the player (presumably, a well-adjusted individual whose moral directives in the real world simply don't translate into the game world), and call out that there are existing, internal forces capable of discouraging this kind of behavior (despite the setting being fictitious), which currently aren't heavily exercised by today's games, but perhaps have a more salient place in tomorrow's. Humans are capable of murder as you said, but we don't have to look ahead in human evolution to find more virtuous qualities.

I realize this sounds naive, and I'm not discounting the truth of the matter: a game is a game, and no amount of technical wizardry will ever fully convince the player that they belong to the game world. I just think there's plenty more room for games to tug at human emotion, sympathetic, hateful, or otherwise.

chaudown38
5th Aug 2010, 09:23
Falling back to your human sensibilities you will find murder holds a prominent seat. To find a place where violence and lust and greed don't rule, you must look ahead in human evolution, not within.

No matter how realistic and immersive games become, people will never play them the way they live real life for one reason: the reset button / quicksave file. Real life is pretty unforgiving; your life could be over if you do something really bad and get caught doing it, and this makes most of us decide to not do bad things. Until someone makes a game that causes its program files and installation DVD to self-destruct when your character dies, people will always have the urge to do reckless and "illegal" things like massacre the Wan Chai business owners.

I suppose in the distant future, games might render pain and suffering so realistically that some gamers might start to feel remorse and pity for the NPCs, but I share Pinky_Powers's pessimistic view of human nature. Being able to dish out hyper-realistic pain and suffering on innocent victims will probably make "unethical" gameplay more appealing, not less, because we all have frustrations and bad thoughts that we need to keep repressed in real life.

Anyway, it's a little too easy to wipe out entire neighborhoods and just walk away in Deus Ex 1 and 2. Law enforcement needs to be less of a joke, or there ought to be a significant plot change when Mr. Denton turns out to be a spree killer.

Kodaemon
5th Aug 2010, 09:49
It probably just means I'm a bad roleplayer, but usually my characters in rpgs tend to be a lot like me.

Most of the time I have a very hard time getting into a murderous attitude in games (well, those that are at least semi-serious, not something like GTA or one of those totally silly and absurd playthroughs of DX or sth.), even when I set out to play an evil character I usually end up either gradually shifting towards being good, or at least playing in an "even evil has standards" way. Sure I do vent frustration every now and then going on crazy rampages, but it's always save->rampage->load->be nice for the actual playthrough... Even when playing something like Kane & Lynch I'm pretty careful not to shoot civilians unless I really have to.

Oh, and lest you get the wrong idea: I'm all for letting the player be a total jackass. It's one thing to choose not to be one, it's another to get arbitrarily prevented from it.

Hertzila
5th Aug 2010, 11:47
Until someone makes a game that causes its program files and installation DVD to self-destruct when your character dies, people will always have the urge to do reckless and "illegal" things like massacre the Wan Chai business owners.

IIRC the original Metal Gear Solid had an idea like this in the very start of developement: when Snake dies you'd have to buy a new game. I don't exactly remember what Kojima said was the reason for this but chances are it was precisely to stop people from being reckless. This would have been as far as one could possibly go from fun though.

Ashpolt
5th Aug 2010, 12:13
^^ If you died in Steel Battalion (aka Tekki) it erased your save and you had to start again. You could eject from your mech before it exploded, in which case it wouldn't wipe your save, but it cost an absolute fortune in in-game currency to buy another - and if you couldn't afford it? Tough, start again.

I think that's about as harsh a punishment for death in games as you can reasonably get. It's not helped that the game is pretty hard anyway! I've never got past level 4 (of 12 or so.)

DeusWhatever
5th Aug 2010, 13:59
By the way i found a great game, i think Deus-Ex should try to learn from it, i think it perfectly combines story and action:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PYQhvW-tjNM

(btw. there is a link to the gamedemo in the title ^^)

And yes im being sarcastic ...

Pinky_Powers
5th Aug 2010, 15:46
By the way i found a great game, i think Deus-Ex should try to learn from it, i think it perfectly combines story and action:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PYQhvW-tjNM

(btw. there is a link to the gamedemo in the title ^^)

And yes im being sarcastic ...

I haven't seen a game that looks this good since the original Deus Ex. :eek:

Isterio
6th Aug 2010, 03:16
I usually kill only the bad guys. It doesn't matter, what kind of game it is.

Why should I harm the innocent? Why should I kill people without thinking, who don't have any intention of harming me? I prefer brutally slaughtering the ones, who do me wrong. The "pay me XYZ to pass or I kill you and take all your belongings"-guys. Or other characters, who try to fool my alter ego. No mercy for the villans (in DX, Gothic etc.)!

For me it is more fun to play a honorable knight. In KOTOR I even leave the bad guys alive and try to convince them to become good again, if the option is there. Because that's what a real Jedi should/would do. I also played the SITH-way, but somehow it's not fun to be mean. And you usually get less quests, if you kill NPCs. You never know, if you have to talk to that guy again in the future. They usually don't come back after they died.

I prefer exploring dialog options, listening to their discussions, getting quests etc., than seeing the blood of the innocent flooding through the streets I walk.

But that's just me. Maybe some of you potential Columbines call me a p***y now :P

Angel-A
6th Aug 2010, 04:10
Why should I harm the innocent?
B CUZ, DATS Y.


Main reason: it's fun to have to ability to just pop open a saved game and go crazy on the NPCs...

Brockxz
6th Aug 2010, 05:46
I usually kill only the bad guys. It doesn't matter, what kind of game it is.

Why should I harm the innocent? Why should I kill people without thinking, who don't have any intention of harming me? I prefer brutally slaughtering the ones, who do me wrong. The "pay me XYZ to pass or I kill you and take all your belongings"-guys. Or other characters, who try to fool my alter ego. No mercy for the villans (in DX, Gothic etc.)!

For me it is more fun to play a honorable knight. In KOTOR I even leave the bad guys alive and try to convince them to become good again, if the option is there. Because that's what a real Jedi should/would do. I also played the SITH-way, but somehow it's not fun to be mean. And you usually get less quests, if you kill NPCs. You never know, if you have to talk to that guy again in the future. They usually don't come back after they died.

I prefer exploring dialog options, listening to their discussions, getting quests etc., than seeing the blood of the innocent flooding through the streets I walk.

But that's just me. Maybe some of you potential Columbines call me a p***y now :P

no it's not just you, there are a lot of like you (for example me) who don 't kill someone in the game just for fun. If I'm going for killing spree in any game, there is always a reason for doing it. Even if I play mainly evil char I almost never do violence without reason. Yes, i steal, lie etc, but i will never kill without reason just for fun. Even playing such games like GTA i never kill innocent people (sometimes there is collateral damage I can't avoid) if it doesn't need to be done that way to complete objective.

Isterio
6th Aug 2010, 08:52
I don't care, if other people have fun killing everything that moves. For me it's rather pointless. It's not very logical, hence it disrupts the atmosphere of the game. I try to identify myself with the main character / protoganist. They usually wouldn't do that, so I don't do it either. For me it's not really fun to test it and load again.

But if you like it, please keep doing it. Different people, different tastes...

So I don't need the devs to support this feature, but I guess it won't hurt. It's more realistic, than "I don't feel your bullets"-people.

[EDIT]
Ilike friendly fire though ... So if you could kill anyone, you could also kill your allies. This makes the game more difficult/realistic. That's nice. Maybe the devs could make some consequences like: "Because you let your girl-friend die, you won't have any partial nudity scenes!" NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!!!!!! "...and the plot will be different too." Hmm, okay

Pinky_Powers
6th Aug 2010, 15:50
This thread should probably merge with the Killing Kids topic.

mad_red
6th Aug 2010, 16:57
I suppose in the distant future, games might render pain and suffering so realistically that some gamers might start to feel remorse and pity for the NPCs, but I share Pinky_Powers's pessimistic view of human nature. Being able to dish out hyper-realistic pain and suffering on innocent victims will probably make "unethical" gameplay more appealing, not less, because we all have frustrations and bad thoughts that we need to keep repressed in real life.


Falling back to your human sensibilities you will find murder holds a prominent seat. To find a place where violence and lust and greed don't rule, you must look ahead in human evolution, not within.


I find this needlessly pessimistic. You know the last time I went on a killing spree? Ultima Underworld.

The fact is that once we don't have a point of reference anymore (ie. human society has become peaceful), killing sprees become nothing more than a curiosity, not the heart of corruption in computer games.

Frustration and bad vibes? If this guy can do this (http://www.google.com/imgres?imgurl=http://worldsfamousphotos.com/wp-content/uploads/2007/04/budist_monk_on_fire.jpg&imgrefurl=http://www.worldsfamousphotos.com/index.php/2007/04/&usg=__EB24OT3G8iCJenksOGl-gmoRi-4=&h=330&w=500&sz=102&hl=en&start=0&tbnid=AX08F2iRjK7YVM:&tbnh=134&tbnw=185&prev=/images%3Fq%3Dbuddhist%2Bon%2Bfire%26um%3D1%26hl%3Den%26client%3Dfirefox-a%26sa%3DX%26rls%3Dorg.mozilla:en-GB:official%26biw%3D1366%26bih%3D613%26tbs%3Disch:1&um=1&itbs=1&iact=hc&vpx=503&vpy=119&dur=369&hovh=182&hovw=276&tx=170&ty=86&ei=rj5cTLmAOY7KjAfl5e3wAw&oei=rj5cTLmAOY7KjAfl5e3wAw&esq=1&page=1&ndsp=22&ved=1t:429,r:3,s:0)
then we can do monotonous jobs and eat crappy take-out and jerk-off for life without going out and shooting up people.




By the way i found a great game, i think Deus-Ex should try to learn from it, i think it perfectly combines story and action:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PYQhvW-tjNM

(btw. there is a link to the gamedemo in the title ^^)

Hehe, the onion gone dunnit again!



Maybe the devs could make some consequences like: "Because you let your girl-friend die, you won't have any partial nudity scenes!" NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!!!!!! "...and the plot will be different too." Hmm, okay

This is gold! Forget friendly fire: Shoot to many innocents? BAM - NO SEX! Psychological conditioning at its best!

Pinky_Powers
6th Aug 2010, 18:42
I find this needlessly pessimistic. You know the last time I went on a killing spree? Ultima Underworld.

The fact is that once we don't have a point of reference anymore (ie. human society has become peaceful), killing sprees become nothing more than a curiosity, not the heart of corruption in computer games.

I find you needlessly naïve.

luminar
6th Aug 2010, 19:18
I find this needlessly pessimistic. You know the last time I went on a killing spree? Ultima Underworld.

The fact is that once we don't have a point of reference anymore (ie. human society has become peaceful), killing sprees become nothing more than a curiosity, not the heart of corruption in computer games.

Frustration and bad vibes? If this guy can do this (http://www.google.com/imgres?imgurl=http://worldsfamousphotos.com/wp-content/uploads/2007/04/budist_monk_on_fire.jpg&imgrefurl=http://www.worldsfamousphotos.com/index.php/2007/04/&usg=__EB24OT3G8iCJenksOGl-gmoRi-4=&h=330&w=500&sz=102&hl=en&start=0&tbnid=AX08F2iRjK7YVM:&tbnh=134&tbnw=185&prev=/images%3Fq%3Dbuddhist%2Bon%2Bfire%26um%3D1%26hl%3Den%26client%3Dfirefox-a%26sa%3DX%26rls%3Dorg.mozilla:en-GB:official%26biw%3D1366%26bih%3D613%26tbs%3Disch:1&um=1&itbs=1&iact=hc&vpx=503&vpy=119&dur=369&hovh=182&hovw=276&tx=170&ty=86&ei=rj5cTLmAOY7KjAfl5e3wAw&oei=rj5cTLmAOY7KjAfl5e3wAw&esq=1&page=1&ndsp=22&ved=1t:429,r:3,s:0)
then we can do monotonous jobs and eat crappy take-out and jerk-off for life without going out and shooting up people.





Hehe, the onion gone dunnit again!




This is gold! Forget friendly fire: Shoot to many innocents? BAM - NO SEX! Psychological conditioning at its best!

"BAM - No SEX!" Best. Quote. Ever.

H.D.Case
7th Aug 2010, 02:25
Why DX? Try Syndicate. A cyberpunk game where you have 4 half-machine agents at your disposal. When I was bored I would give'em shotguns and walk around the city. But one thing - stuff like that is pretty tedious and boring. Have fun!

Edit: BTW - for a nice cyberpunk feel - the intro! The Amiga intro has better synchronized music, but it is also shorter. Both here. Enjoy!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qw2W_Ap7m2k

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Wvo6xAQwDEc

mad_red
8th Aug 2010, 22:47
I find you needlessly naïve.

You mean that human society will never be completely peaceful? I didn't really mean to make a claim one way or the other, but positing a hypothetical ideal might sound a bit naive, sure.

But if you mean that any appeal to human sensibilities will result in lust, greed, or violence, unless some kind of 'evolution' is completed, or that what we think about killing sprees isn't in part socially constructed, I gotta disagree.

I mean, what do you think folks at a Buddhist monestary would say about GTA? They'd probably laugh and shake their heads, wondering why children would insist on killing sprees when it's just as fun as driving a car or changing your fashion style. It's just a curiosity.

Invictus Sol
9th Aug 2010, 00:24
@ H.D.Case: I remember Syndicate very fondly from my university days. I've wondered why it's never come up here, but maybe it's just a little too old to have been played by many. Really had a good time with it, though I don't remember a lot of particulars the way I do with DX, so maybe that's part of the problem.

Fluffis
9th Aug 2010, 00:34
Why DX? Try Syndicate. A cyberpunk game where you have 4 half-machine agents at your disposal. When I was bored I would give'em shotguns and walk around the city. But one thing - stuff like that is pretty tedious and boring. Have fun!

Edit: BTW - for a nice cyberpunk feel - the intro! The Amiga intro has better synchronized music, but it is also shorter. Both here. Enjoy!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qw2W_Ap7m2k

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Wvo6xAQwDEc

Man, Syndicate was a cool game. I'd all but forgotten about it, sadly. The intros did spark it again, though. Completely kick-ass cyberpunk.

rokstrombo
9th Aug 2010, 07:17
No matter how realistic and immersive games become, people will never play them the way they live real life for one reason: the reset button / quicksave file. Real life is pretty unforgiving; your life could be over if you do something really bad and get caught doing it, and this makes most of us decide to not do bad things.

I had a dream once where I went like totally psycho and wasted a bunch of guys in a store, then freaked out when I realized it was real life and I couldn't load from an earlier save. When I woke up I swore I would never play another violent videogame again.

Good times!

xsamitt
9th Aug 2010, 13:22
I had a dream once where I went like totally psycho and wasted a bunch of guys in a store, then freaked out when I realized it was real life and I couldn't load from an earlier save. When I woke up I swore I would never play another violent videogame again.

Good times!

Do not pass go,go to jail,do not collect 200 dollars.:lmao:

St. Mellow
9th Aug 2010, 20:34
It just hit me that despite abusing ultra-violent entertainment my whole life, I don't think I've ever killed someone while dreaming. Never thought about it until reading that post.

H.D.Case
24th Aug 2010, 20:02
@ Invictus Sol and Fluffis - Maybe, if modding is available, somebody will make a Syndicate mod? :D Let's keep our fingers crossed. Hard!