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View Full Version : Deus Ex fight choreography



Kohtalo
19th Jul 2010, 12:37
Greetings!

I'm planning to make a short teaser or trailer type of a shortfilm with a Deus Ex feel to it. This short film will probably contain a sequence of hand-to-hand combat. I know the details of making fight scenes and I have an idea how I'd make it look.

But, how would YOU make a fight scene involving JC (or some other random hero from the Deus Ex universe) and a couple of bad guys look?

Would it be like fast and furious like Jet Li or Jackie Chan, a fast paced compilation of quick shots like in the Bourne movies or perhaps something different, maybe something smooth รข Steven Seagal :lol:? Also, besides the choreography, I'd like to hear how you'd pace the scene, for example what kind of cuts would you use.


Here's what I'm asking in a nutshell (HOWEVER, this is NOT how I see a Deus Ex fight done):
Example idea: Jackie Chan's Who Am I -rooftop scene?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZjkSC4SQORw&feature=related

1. Fighting style (give an example of a scene in a youtube link if possible)
- Jackie Chan, Who Am I?: uses a lot of surroundings, quick movement, often evades strikes. Pretty traditional HK-movie style with extra stunts.

2. Editing style
- Simple editing, with average pace. Shows the movements clearly. Opponents can take a lot of beating.

I'll post my own idea soon.

xsamitt
19th Jul 2010, 12:44
Quite an interesting concept.Really digging it.There are other here who can detail it much better than I what would be best.I guess you try to take into account the personality's of the characters themselves.JC won't fight like Bruce lee.Somewhat slower than that I'd imagine.With lots of his jacket flying around.I would say it's alot to do with the visuals making the biggest impact over simply going all out like in the martial arts.But hey I love the concept and looking forward to it.

TrickyVein
19th Jul 2010, 13:21
I feel like JC is so cool and always in control of a situation that nothing phases him, not even a few direct blows. I feel like he could stand his ground and take a few hits - or deftly block them - before methodically felling his enemy with a single well aimed blow. He definitely wouldn't be fast and fancy like some martial-arts expert. His fighting would be practical and careful.

I'll try and fine the vid, but I'm thinking of how Admiral (was he an Admiral then?) Adama dealt with Lee from BSG. There's an episode in which the crew comes together to challenge each other and beat each other up in the ring to let off steam. Dad fights son and wins - by being more wise, it seems, not because he's a bigger hulk.

neilthecellist
19th Jul 2010, 15:51
EIDOS has pretty much rewritten JC from the ground up in personality and, from what we've seen so far from preview vids, he's got a troubled family past (either girlfriend was lost, or wife, or family). Simple Freudian concept. Great for more emotional-fueled action scenes.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DvC0m7nYuK8#t=0m32s

I don't expect JC to be this violent (especially since JC doesn't interrogate like Sam Fisher would) but I would expect his takedowns just to be like the ones we've seen (or shouldn't have seen) from the gameplay leak. Maybe with a little more anger.

ChfMojoRising
19th Jul 2010, 16:49
Oh man~ that's one of my favorite Jackie Chan fight scenes, tho I didn't like the movie itself. That one, and the battles in Legend of Drunken Master are my favorites! I'm a bit of a martial arts movie lover, so I have to give proper to Jet Li, Donnie Yen and Sammo Hung as well tho ^_^

If I was doing a cyberpunk martial arts film with cybernetic enhancements~ I'd want something fast paced, easy to see (like Crouching Tiger, Hidden Dragon~ another fave of mine) but add crazy flips and twists that make perfect sense given the tactics that would come from having an H+ body. I can't think of a single film that has done what I have in mind~ but to give you a feel for what I'm thinking, I can show you some scenes from Samurai Champloo.

In this one Jin fights an assassin (footage edited to show only the parts where Jin fights) Notice the swift, tactical movements of each blade and keep in mind that one connection will spell the end for one of the warriors.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t5oMAlxWodg

I imagine having an H+ body, you might fell a fellow cyborg in just a few hits, so I envision several strikes barely missing as the fighters twist and contort to dodge while setting themselves up to strike.

This next one contains a Champloo spoiler, so be forewarned. It's Jin in a different fight with one of my favorite characters. It's another example of what I showed before (video edited to play the opening song or some retarded reason): http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YGPYDWHZo-o

To show off some crazy flippy action here's Jin fighting Mugen in the first episode (edited into greyscale because people can't leave a good thing alone, also, some weird slowdown at one part... *sigh*): http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vzErUBYQZpI

This last one shows the main characters fighting a guy that has almost inhuman skill~ This is one of the last episodes and might be considered spoilerific. Forewarned again ^_^ (edited to show only the scenes of this particular 'villain'): http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XEiZBxpZDEc

Edit>> Just noticed I didn't give Mugen any love. Here's his spoileriffic last fight of the show!: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MGm8aOzeeHs&feature=related

TrickyVein
19th Jul 2010, 17:02
EIDOS has pretty much rewritten JC from the ground up in personality and, from what we've seen so far from preview vids, he's got a troubled family past (either girlfriend was lost, or wife, or family).

I think you are confused. The main character of DX3 is Adam Jensen, who is (to our knowledge) in no way related to JC.

ChfMojoRising
19th Jul 2010, 17:14
Ok, now I've been reminded of this~ The last fight between two of the main characters of Jubei-Chan 2. It's pretty close to what I imagine lol http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FcTJqRqjlmQ&feature=related

Shralla
19th Jul 2010, 17:42
If JC were a hand to hand expert, he would fight like Batman.

ChfMojoRising
19th Jul 2010, 18:13
Clearly JC would use gun-kata!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cIOxsYDHWGc

He'd need a bewb-aug tho, to reach such levels of skill!

Oh~ don't know how it is I overlooked this but:


EIDOS has pretty much rewritten JC from the ground up in personality and, from what we've seen so far from preview vids, he's got a troubled family past (either girlfriend was lost, or wife, or family).

That's not JC in this game. If he makes a cameo, I guess it might be interesting (I don't remember the time difference between the two, so I'm not sure it's feasible) but the guy in this game is Adam Jenson~ abbreviated as AJ. Completely different fellow.

Ashpolt
19th Jul 2010, 19:57
If JC were a hand to hand expert, he would fight like Batman.

This is one thing we can definitely agree on. I don't imagine JC using any fancy-pants show off martial arts, just a series of precise jabs and kicks to weak points designed solely to get the job done as quickly, cleanly and efficiently as possible.

Mindmute
19th Jul 2010, 20:32
This is one thing we can definitely agree on. I don't imagine JC using any fancy-pants show off martial arts, just a series of precise jabs and kicks to weak points designed solely to get the job done as quickly, cleanly and efficiently as possible.

Strange, am I the only one who'd imagine JC as more of a grappler than a striker? Grabbing people from out of the shadows, snapping a few of their joints to incapacitate them or disarming them to use their own weapon against them afterwards?

xsamitt
20th Jul 2010, 01:05
Strange, am I the only one who'd imagine JC as more of a grappler than a striker? Grabbing people from out of the shadows, snapping a few of their joints to incapacitate them or disarming them to use their own weapon against them afterwards?

Yes i would say your on the right track with that reasoning.The guy is really tough,strong,something akin to machine,almost.I would imagine J.C if confronted with someone into martial arts as almost a joke to him,and would just work his own brand of mojo upon you,while perhaps a slight smile at all that nonsense moves you would be making against him,while he just reaches out and squeezes your face really hard,and starts asking you a few questions.

ChfMojoRising
20th Jul 2010, 05:07
Well, I guess that works if he's fighting non-augmented people :/ But anyone augmented that knows martial arts would be a real threat to him~ he'd have to see to his stealth skills hehe.

Dead-Eye
20th Jul 2010, 05:19
My interpretation of JC Denton is someone who picks people off from 300 to 500 yards away with a silenced .30-06 sniper rifle before making a final approach on the mission objective. If he's spotted he would use invisibility to double back and set booby traps for anyone so dumb enough to try and fallow a JC Denton down the rabbit hole. After sending the enemy on a deadly goose chase he would return to the area from a different spot giving him the jump on the remaining forces.

Generally he would avoid hand to hand combat. If he did get into hand to hand combat however I would imagine his moves to be quick, direct and devastating. No fight would last to long because JC would quickly dispatch the enemy before they had time to call for help. If however the enemy was too resilient to his attacks (Like Gunther) or talking too much time he would leave the area and double back using stealth.

If the worst case scenario happens and he runs into someone like Barrett that essentially doesn't allow him to leave the area and who's strength Aug is one notch more powerful then his, JC would be forced to pull the dragon tooth out. At which point things would get epic.

Kohtalo
20th Jul 2010, 06:34
Great answers so far!

I promised to shed light on my approach, so here it is:

Like said, JC is probably superior to any ordinary fighter in terms of strenght, speed and agility. He most likely has been heavily trained in unarmed combat as well.

I see JC as a precise and deadly fighter, who uses a strong combination of strikes to immediately incapasitate or kill and also effective throws and locks. Most of the time he probably approaches his enemies from behind or from cover, making silent takedowns via neck breaking or choking.

Basicly, a fight scene against 3 assailants would be pretty fast - maybe 30 seconds should they be fought one by one. The pace would be fast when JC would strike, but there would be spare time between the kills to make it look easy and stylish.

Here's a vid from Assasins Creed 2 featuring some simple combinations, that could look good in a fight.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oN0jT6d3U8s

The editing would compose of slow cuts, which would show a lot of the action as it is, without trying to hide the battle into dozens of quick and shaky cuts (like Batman Begins). The fighting style though would be similar to Batmans effective and brutal striking.

This serves as an extreme example of slow (or in this case, NO) cuts. The hand grappling and locking done by Tony Jaa would also fit very well into a fight scene. However, the posture and movement should need to be a bit more tense and static as to fit JC:s style - as JC is more of a cold blooded killer and would not show emotion in that way, or move his hands like that. Don't take the jumping and tricking into account tho, just the strikes and hand locks.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K06wDn3XsZE

Maybe a hint of Watchmen as well...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rifXX_XhJVs

IOOI
21st Jul 2010, 00:38
JC style! (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XQunF42gtXI#t=01m11s) :D

Exian
21st Jul 2010, 06:34
JC style! (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XQunF42gtXI#t=01m11s) :D

LOL nice one :D

Slaughterman
21st Jul 2010, 08:34
For me Deus Ex is more about gunfights. However if you plan to introduce hands to hands fight, I would suggest something quick and lethal, completely at the opposite of the Jackie Chan video. JC doesn't need to evade kicks, he just has to block one and instantly counter attack with a lethal punch.

xsamitt
21st Jul 2010, 14:02
JC style! (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XQunF42gtXI#t=01m11s) :D

:thumb:

Mindmute
21st Jul 2010, 17:04
I'm a bit biased in regards to this (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uPJpJA4jA4I), but I think some Kali-based grappling (with or without a weapon) would be a style that would fit JC nicely. Keep in mind that outside of demonstrations and seminars (in competitions or actual self defence), this type of grappling tends to have a lot less flourish and be a lot more to the point.

A bit closer to this (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TE12YleuRfs) than the first video.

Or for focus in hand to hand, this (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nCzzY4a5MB8) is very to the point, though it only has a few roots of Kali left it in.

Shralla
21st Jul 2010, 19:04
Obviously the only one who could accurately portray the badass fighting that would come from an augmented agent is Bruce Lee. I see a big all-on-one fight with JC happening like this.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CHFXTeQWXjo#t=3m20s

ChfMojoRising
21st Jul 2010, 20:25
Obligatory posting of Cleric John Preston, coming up!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NVjyzsNp91A

No... Not without incident.

KoStA
24th Jul 2010, 20:48
I would say his fighting style would be similar to Krav Maga, simple (though grittty) and effective (but brutal).
It's really unsportsmanlike though, perhaps not the best to visualize but it does get the job done.

El_Bel
25th Jul 2010, 09:57
I agree about Krav Maga, Batman style and some assasins creed moves. But this caught my attention.



If the worst case scenario happens and he runs into someone like Barrett that essentially doesn't allow him to leave the area and who's strength Aug is one notch more powerful then his, JC would be forced to pull the dragon tooth out. At which point things would get epic.

Now thats something i would like to see. Maybe after the mobs it could be followed by a boss fight were JC is forced to use his dragon tooth to have a chance against a guy like Barrett (or Gunther).

Kohtalo
25th Jul 2010, 17:58
We had a small DX photoshoot, and decided to try some simple combos on video while we were at it. This is all just to get ourselves into the mood for preparing for a possible future short film - SO don't take it too seriously.

Only one of the guys had experience in stage combat, so that's why he's doing the hardest part (aka getting his ass kicked).

The sound-FX is just cut and paste on top of it to give some feel tothe fight - nothing too polished :D

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lkT2X8Soy1U

Ninjerk
25th Jul 2010, 20:21
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YAdibdxZ9zg

Quick and deadly, without all that horrible John Woo horse****.

Shralla
25th Jul 2010, 23:37
John Woo...horrible

what