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Rindill the Red
17th Jul 2010, 03:31
This >>>> http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/UnpleasableFanbase

Dead-Eye
17th Jul 2010, 04:16
Thank you, caption obvious. :rasp:

II J0SePh X II
17th Jul 2010, 10:16
That is laser-guided humour. I lol'd hard @ "Often results in Complaining about Complaining"

Thanks for sharing.

jtr7
17th Jul 2010, 11:31
:cool: :thumb:

The negativity seems even worse than it is, too, since one person will usually get blamed for the disparate negative opinions of many people at once, a scapegoat, the last straw, the whipping boy, the dog to be kicked by Mr. Crankypants. Reading one negative opinion after another, on top of one perceived and misperceived opinion after another, on top of posts that are so positive they are negative, on top of people making things up, on top of trolls and fakers and posters who parrot ignorantly, regardless of how many posters and posts are positive, genuine, and balanced...*le pant, le puff*...it all overwhelms the typical forumite. :p

Ashpolt
17th Jul 2010, 13:07
Yes, we're definitely unpleasable, because Eidos Montreal have gone to such huge lengths to please everyone - in their own words, "even the existing fanbase" - and we're still complaining. All those things they've done to please the existing fanbase, like.....and....and don't forget....

We're so unpleasable. Yeah.

TrickyVein
17th Jul 2010, 13:24
Rendill man - I don't understand what your intent was in starting this thread.

This is obvious - no one here believes that he/she represents the entirety of fandom for the game. We have a constructive feedback thread where many diverse and disparate opinions on the game are offered (and theoretically read by someone). As with any large and eclectic crowd, the hope is that whatever grievances are agreed upon to exist and be the most important to the majority are the ones that will be addressed. And you can't deny that most people here over the past few years since announcement have been upset about a few specific elements like health regen, and more recently, third person cover and or takedowns. You can identify specific issues that the majority of people dislike with the game - you can appeal to this majority.

It's foolish to have any kind of pretension that Eidos has a role to please all of their fanbase - that's just silly and naive to think that they even have the capability to do so.

Unless you post something of you own - like how posting on these forums is futile because of the fact that the entire fanbase can't be pleased (take a position and say something people can respond to?) - along with this link you've thought so well of as to share with us all, this is a pointless thread.

mad_red
17th Jul 2010, 23:54
How about a more balanced view:
hard core fans - good or bad? (http://www.independent.co.uk/arts-entertainment/films/features/star-wars--when-the-fans-hit-the-sith-2021858.html)

TrickyVein
18th Jul 2010, 00:33
Star Wars is such a behemoth though. Hardcore SW fans are like DX fansx10^31.

DX isn't a franchise like Star Wars is - it's not really a proven franchise at all. I think Eidos would like to turn the title into a big moneymaker; they're going to see how well DX3 sells to inform their decision of whether or not to continue making DX games. If it turns out that many original DX fans become alienated along the way, then I definitely see something of the sorts as described in that article you provided happening in the near future.

mad_red
18th Jul 2010, 00:44
Star Wars is such a behemoth though. Hardcore SW fans are like DX fansx10^31.

DX isn't a franchise like Star Wars is - it's not really a proven franchise at all. I think Eidos would like to turn the title into a big moneymaker; they're going to see how well DX3 sells to inform their decision of whether or not to continue making DX games. If it turns out that many original DX fans become alienated along the way, then I definitely see something of the sorts as described in that article you provided happening in the near future.

True. It occured to me, but I didn't really give it any thought. I hope you did!

So basically, fans have different tastes and they'll speak out and argue. Some are more whiney than others. What did you have in mind when you said there's a big phenomenon like Star Wars and a small one like Deus Ex? Most importantly, what does it imply for my whining?!

Romeo
18th Jul 2010, 22:12
Well, there's something I've noticed on almost every forum around it's that you don't say things when things look good - because there's no need to. But when things don't look good, you speak up in the hope of correcting it. By nature, this makes fans look overly negative when they may not be. If I talk about a potential car to people, I probably come across as a negative-maniac, as I'll usually only list issues with particular models they're looking at, rather than saying "Well the strengths of this one are..." because, again, people often don't need to be told what's right, only what's not right.

TrickyVein
19th Jul 2010, 03:06
^^ That stuff is covered in STAT: only people who respond to polls are the ones who have strong enough opinions to care.


True. It occured to me, but I didn't really give it any thought. I hope you did!

So basically, fans have different tastes and they'll speak out and argue. Some are more whiney than others. What did you have in mind when you said there's a big phenomenon like Star Wars and a small one like Deus Ex? Most importantly, what does it imply for my whining?!

Come now, you're not whining. :)

Yeah - I shortened my post because I really don't know what to say. I'll try: Star Wars has been around for so long and been pushed through so many different mediums as well as having undergone a revival with episodes I, II, and III that there are many more diverse and fractionated groups of fans for that franchise than there are for DX. What do we have? DX1, 2...and that snowblind game, right? Really, there is only one group of hardcore DX fans, whereas there are probably many more fan-groups for SW, each one claiming to be the pre-eminent "hardcore" devotees. What this means is that any change to the SW franchise is bound to alienate one of these groups of fans - compare this to DX, where any change to the DX namesake can only alienate the one group of fans. It would be foolish for EM to ignore their fanbase when it's the only one they've got. Conversely, It'd be more foolish still for Lucas to try and appeal to all of his fans - it'd be futile.

El Zoido
23rd Jul 2010, 11:41
Really, there is only one group of hardcore DX fans

Let's just hope it consist of more than those guys:
http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/FanDumb

;)

II J0SePh X II
23rd Jul 2010, 13:06
Thought this one was pertinent:

•The Elitist: these fans tend to spring up when the show goes from being a cult favourite to the mainstream. They are often prone to "I judge you if you like..." or "I judge people based on whether they have seen..." They tend to resent the influx of new fans as 'plebs' and 'Johnny-come-latelys' who are infiltrating and bringing down the tone of their previously exclusive, niche little club. As an ego-stroking exercise, they might actually try to set themselves up as an elite and attract any Lickspittles and mimics they can find; alternatively, expect to hear a lot of whining about how the show has 'Sold Out' or 'Gone Commercial', fairly or not.

MechBFP
23rd Jul 2010, 13:29
http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/FanDumb

Rofl... aint it the truth.

"Taking these fans too seriously is usually a mistake. Although they tend to be louder than the rest of the fanbase combined, they are usually a decided minority in almost every fandom (though they often claim to be a majority)."

Oh man, I wish I had know about this page back in the Bethesda forums. The truth flows so freely it hurts.

Fluffis
23rd Jul 2010, 13:32
Add this: Complaining about complaining (http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/ComplainingAboutPeopleNotLikingTheShow) and Lickspittle (http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/Lickspittle) (or less extreme: Creator Worship (http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/CreatorWorship)) and we see that what is happening here, is not exactly one-sided.

What's interesting here, though, is that we (the people that complain and criticize) are not the "FanDumb" or "Elitists" of this particular game. If you wanted to hit us where it hurts, it would be better to use Nostalgia Filter (http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/NostalgiaFilter).

See... It's the "defenders" here that are the elitists when it comes to DX:HR. They're claiming to know more about this game, about gaming in general and which solutions will be best, than the average critic.

El Zoido
23rd Jul 2010, 14:00
Oh man, I wish I had know about this page back in the Bethesda forums.

Ah, those were the days... :D

FrankCSIS
23rd Jul 2010, 15:58
Defending the idea of design engineering as an exact science, as opposed to mish mash of features fits into which of those five-cents categories?

With just a tiny bit of insight, you'll find this is what's happening here. Not the protection of a specific title against the evil masses.

Fluffis
23rd Jul 2010, 16:31
Defending the idea of design engineering as an exact science, as opposed to mish mash of features fits into which of those five-cents categories?

With just a tiny bit of insight, you'll find this is what's happening here. Not the protection of a specific title against the evil masses.

^^^This is what most coherent discussions on gameplay on this board boil down to, yes.