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tartarus_sauce
16th Jul 2010, 21:57
I've been looking for it for a good while, but I can't find it anywhere.

Corpus
16th Jul 2010, 22:37
I've been looking for it for a good while, but I can't find it anywhere.

Not the best idea to ask on the official forums for leaked game play.

Kodaemon
16th Jul 2010, 22:50
EM/Squeenix do seem to be unusually strict about conrolling the leak though, other studios/publishers would just let it be after a few weeks.

tartarus_sauce
16th Jul 2010, 23:32
If the mods want to be dicks about it, they can do so. It's just that discussion of the leaked footage is very common here, and I'd really like to see what the fuss is about.

TrickyVein
17th Jul 2010, 00:18
Removed

xsamitt
17th Jul 2010, 00:27
If the mods want to be dicks about it, they can do so. It's just that discussion of the leaked footage is very common here, and I'd really like to see what the fuss is about.


Don't feel so bad,I haven't seen it either.Actually I refuse to.

TrickyVein
17th Jul 2010, 00:32
You refuse? On what grounds?

xsamitt
17th Jul 2010, 00:38
You refuse? On what grounds?

Just was never one to follow the crowd.

tartarus_sauce
17th Jul 2010, 00:54
Thanks!

It's hard to assess given how crappy the image quality is. It's definitely a work in progress. The dialog is looking pretty sophisticated. I'm glad they invested heavily in the social element. It looks like it actually spells out what you're going to say when you hover over a dialog button. Over-abbreviation of dialog has been a real problem with multi-platform RPG's lately (Mass Effect, Alpha Protocol come to mind). Glad to see they found a good solution that problem.

The environments are beautiful and ornate, something the original Deus Ex never managed. I'm impressed by the stealth, too. Most games that have a stealth option never develop it enough to make it worthwhile.

I'm pretty optimistic now. Thanks again for sharing!

TrickyVein
17th Jul 2010, 01:01
@ Tartarus - I'm glad.


Just was never one to follow the crowd.

That's a lackluster defense, considering how you've registered here at Eidos forums in the first place - effectively becoming "one of the crowd" - but I'm not going to push the issue.

biofuel
17th Jul 2010, 01:36
The gameplay footage looks about as much of a commercialised, mcdonalds for the "dumb masses" game as you can get... "in the genre". With nice shiny packaging for the stunted public they will target, stating the obvious with this statement of course. I hope to be proved wrong. Not likely, which would be *so* lame I know

tartarus_sauce
17th Jul 2010, 04:30
Commercialized relative to what? These games are a commercial enterprise. It looks like Deus Ex to me. The close combat kills are an improvement imho.

Badmaker
17th Jul 2010, 08:33
Commercialized relative to what? These games are a commercial enterprise. It looks like Deus Ex to me. The close combat kills are an improvement imho.

I think he meant that even a 10 year old kid can understand the story and the gameplay.
DX1 however, required some brains.

xsamitt
17th Jul 2010, 12:31
@ Tartarus - I'm glad.



That's a lackluster defense, considering how you've registered here at Eidos forums in the first place - effectively becoming "one of the crowd" - but I'm not going to push the issue.

We all act and behave in a similar fashion to other people I don't deny that.I wear socks,jackets(1 at a time of course LOL),sneakers,t-shirts,and so forth.And look no different from the masses.I speak English like most people.I like good meals.I sleep at night.Have a dog.Enjoy music and so forth.And yes I admit for the most part I am one of the crowd.There is nothing wrong with that,and I;m not saying you are.But for myself there are times I do infact make a decision of where to draw the line.But that's according to my individual needs depending on the matter at hand.
I have quite a few reasons why I decided not watch the footage as much as I want to.Yes I admit that.DX is like the second coming for me.But I just made a decision for myself not to watch it.and mean no offense to others who have.Just like a DX game,we decide for ourselves what our course of action will be.

Ilves
17th Jul 2010, 12:49
But I just made a decision for myself not to watch it.


That's some serious will power right there. When temptation presents itself just one mouse click away...

PizzaNo1
17th Jul 2010, 13:06
I think he meant that even a 10 year old kid can understand the story and the gameplay.
DX1 however, required some brains.

Thou I share some of your concern.

When I saw the vids few weeks ago, they made me more hopeful: you can see plenty of details everywhere! The houses, the walls, the corners, the dirt, the people. That made me less worried right there.

And the fact that one of the devs has posted here, who (more or less) confirmed that a lot of writing and thinking has indeed gone into this game, and the fact he's a skilled writer, made me even less concerned, because why pay xxx-money for a skilled writer for more than two years, and then throw his hard work away? That makes no sense neither creatively or economicly.
And I must admit, I didn't believe the interview where Eidos said they read all posts in the forums, now im sure they do.

Eidos has learned from IW, and why its so disliked.

And by the way Eidos, could you please release a game play video? im sure that will make a lot of people happy.

I love the 'raw' felling of the hud, or rather the lack of it. It would be nice to see that as an option in HR, not a big deal thou.

Im really looking forward to dx:hr, and I think you are doing a great job so far.

tartarus_sauce
17th Jul 2010, 14:51
I played the original Deus Ex when I was twelve and I never had a problem understanding the gameplay or the story. 'Course I also read a lot, which is something kids today don't do unless it's those Twilight novels.

Personally, I think every major release should be playable by a 10 year old, even if the story is a bit more challenging. A game that can't be played by a ten year old (like EVE Online, for example), is almost too complicated to be called a game.

The best games, and the best gameplay mechanics, are like chess: easy to learn, difficult to master.

As to the story, I've got nothin' to speak on there. The devs have been pretty tight-lipped and the trailers/gameplay footage don't reveal anything. We'll burn that bridge when we come to it.

MaxxQ1
17th Jul 2010, 15:13
Personally, I think every major release should be playable by a 10 year old, even if the story is a bit more challenging. A game that can't be played by a ten year old (like EVE Online, for example), is almost too complicated to be called a game.

:hmm:

TrickyVein
17th Jul 2010, 15:19
Personally, I think every major release should be playable by a 10 year old, even if the story is a bit more challenging. A game that can't be played by a ten year old (like EVE Online, for example), is almost too complicated to be called a game.

Please don't ever enter into the gaming industry. :)

xsamitt
17th Jul 2010, 15:23
Please don't ever enter into the gaming industry. :)

Agreed.:whistle:

tartarus_sauce
17th Jul 2010, 15:29
Name a shooter with a wide commercial release that isn't playable by a ten year old.

Gameplay is just like good design: it should be as intuitive and as accessible as possible. What makes a great game is that it is also powerful and sophisticated. Those aren't mutually exclusive goals, in fact they're complimentary.

SageSavage
17th Jul 2010, 15:30
OFP and Arma?

I am no friend of such dogmatic design philosophies. Such formulas tend to get in the way of creativity and promote conformity too much.

aliko
17th Jul 2010, 15:32
It's in the internets! :)

P.S.

All I can say is that after watching that video my hopes about the game have grown like 1000 times! (But the video quality sucks)

TrickyVein
17th Jul 2010, 15:42
You're really just saying that game-play should be mediocre enough to allow everyone in on the action.

How 'bout this? Let the lil' 10 year olds learn how to play a sophisticated game - rather than engineer the gameplay to suit their skill level - ratings aren't all about content you know - some titles are more sophisticated and better suited for an older audience. Games should be challenging, even to learn how to play well. Unless you're a few standard deviations to the left, anyone can learn how to play and control even the most - initially - non-intuitive games. Don't start pandering to the lowest common denominator.

Ilves
17th Jul 2010, 15:58
Personally, I think every major release should be playable by a 10 year old, even if the story is a bit more challenging. A game that can't be played by a ten year old (like EVE Online, for example), is almost too complicated to be called a game.

Contemporary gaming execs seem to be in perfect agreement with you. :thumb:

You're right if you mean proper design ought to be natural and intuitive, but I hope you'll also agree that the mental capacities of a 10 year old really shouldn't be the benchmark. Not regarding game play and most definately not in terms of story & themes.

pringlepower
17th Jul 2010, 18:23
Contemporary gaming execs seem to be in perfect agreement with you. :thumb:

You're right if you mean proper design ought to be natural and intuitive, but I hope you'll also agree that the mental capacities of a 10 year old really shouldn't be the benchmark. Not regarding game play and most definately not in terms of story & themes.

Do it the Pixar way.

ⓣⓐⓕⓕⓔⓡ
17th Jul 2010, 19:09
I am laughing my arse off right now at all these babies throwing their toys out of the pram, comparing the new Deus Ex to the original. Gaming has moved on since then! I only half played through Deus Ex in 2001 but completed the entire thing today. It was good but you guys are seriously stupid if you're claiming it was an "adult game" which required intelligence to play. Fans of nostalgia much? It was one of the easiest games I've ever played to be honest, Thief The Dark Project had some level of difficulty to it at least. :)

SageSavage
17th Jul 2010, 19:33
Great post! Somehow makes me envision something like this:
http://www.guzer.com/pictures/bike-riding-sharks.jpg

ArcR
17th Jul 2010, 19:33
It isn't that it requires DX requires above average intelligence, it doesn't. It's that streamlining game play for the sake of accessibility takes away from the experience. A large part of what creates immersion is planning your character, managing your resources, tasking yourself to find your own solution, and managing ambiguous circumstances. Removing these elements or creating a one button solution maker is considered dumbing down because it caters to those wanting a simpler form of entertainment. That isn't Thief and it isn't Deus Ex.

pringlepower
17th Jul 2010, 20:07
I am laughing my arse off right now at all these babies throwing their toys out of the pram, comparing the new Deus Ex to the original. Gaming has moved on since then! I only half played through Deus Ex in 2001 but completed the entire thing today. It was good but you guys are seriously stupid if you're claiming it was an "adult game" which required intelligence to play. Fans of nostalgia much? It was one of the easiest games I've ever played to be honest, Thief The Dark Project had some level of difficulty to it at least. :)

Intelligence ≠ skill

tartarus_sauce
17th Jul 2010, 22:07
Man, you guys are pretty down on ten year olds.

Every game, and I mean this sincerely, should at least be playable by a ten year old. Even OFP and ARMA are playable by a ten year old.

My whole point is that the design should be intuitive, transparent, easy to learn, yet also powerful and capable of accomodating a multitude of styles and interpretations. How is that at all controversial? How is that "dumbing down?" I've only encountered, in my entire gaming career, maybe two or three games that weren't playable by a ten year old.

Sheesh, you people act like the original Deus Ex required a degree in calculus and years of ninja training to play. I played it when I was twelve and did just fine. Nothing I've seen in the looked footage shows any evidence whatsoever of dumbing down.

Anasumtj
18th Jul 2010, 01:16
I'm not sure it's right to say that the first game required intelligence, but it DID require you to think. If the leaked gameplay footage of HR is even a vague approximation of the final product, and also considering all known info on the game thus far, it would seem to me that HR requires that less so.

If the original DX was perfectly accessible, then what is the point of all this streamlining, and why confer so many advantages to the player now?

Oh right. "The industry has moved on!", etc...

biofuel
18th Jul 2010, 02:42
This game will be shallow and superficial on every level when compared to the original Deus Ex. Seeing the gameplay only confirms this as fact, but its not necessary to actually see the gameplay to know this. Any enjoyment that can be gleaned from Deus Ex 3 is fleeting, and is not even in the same stratosphere as that of the original.

K^2
18th Jul 2010, 03:12
You're right if you mean proper design ought to be natural and intuitive, but I hope you'll also agree that the mental capacities of a 10 year old really shouldn't be the benchmark. Not regarding game play and most definately not in terms of story & themes.
When I was 10, my favorite game was Heroes of Might and Magic II. Now, granted, I probably never was a typical 10 year old in terms of mental capacity, but most of my friends also liked more complex games like that.

The problems really start when you add qualifier, "any 10 year old". That's when you start getting games that are really dumbed down.

Pinky_Powers
18th Jul 2010, 03:18
I was learning how to upgrade my dad's computer when I was ten. :hmm:

K^2
18th Jul 2010, 05:58
I had a x486 DX4 with a buggy motherboard. If I didn't know how to take it apart, put it back together, and reconfigure everything, I effectively did not have a computer.

Edit: That might actually explain why people liked more complex games.

tartarus_sauce
18th Jul 2010, 06:48
I can't believe how negative people are about a game that isn't even done. Review the leaked footage, compare similar situations in Deus Ex, and explain to me in detail how what you see looks simpler than the original Deus Ex. I have yet to see anything that suggests the gameplay in HR is less sophisticated than that of the original Deus Ex. Literally, not one frame of the leaked footage suggests "dumbed down" gameplay.

If you're talking about giving the player so many "advantages" watch that shootout wit the heavy walker at the end. That **** looked like it was equal to the heavy walker battles of Mass Effect 2 on insane difficulty setting. And that was demo footage (which is, everyone must take into account, always done at dumbass difficulty settings, if not with a cheat package running).

Also, I think the player should have some substantial advantages, given that the particular level was not an opening level. I mean, after New York in the original Deus Ex, if you'd spent your points wisely, you were basically an unstoppable death machine already, even at realistic difficulty setting. And it was absolutely ridiculous how weak JC was starting out. Advanced nanotechnology that everyone is skeeting over, and all you get is a flashlight? Didn't anyone else think that was laughable?

SageSavage
18th Jul 2010, 08:13
I had a x486 DX4 with a buggy motherboard. If I didn't know how to take it apart, put it back together, and reconfigure everything, I effectively did not have a computer.

Edit: That might actually explain why people liked more complex games.

Yes, the fact that operating a computer at home is not requiring complex thinking and learning anymore made people much more lazy. That is also true for gaming since newer generations don't know the rewards of more complex games.
I was trying to find the link to another (better) article but it seems the forum ate some of my older posts and I haven't bookmarked it either.
http://www.gamesfirst.com/articles/comp_future/pc_gaming.htm

I once was the proud owner of a 486 DX2, btw... :cool:

Another bonus article about the golden age of gaming:
http://www.shamusyoung.com/twentysidedtale/?p=1861

ⓣⓐⓕⓕⓔⓡ
18th Jul 2010, 11:34
I can't believe how negative people are about a game that isn't even done. Review the leaked footage, compare similar situations in Deus Ex, and explain to me in detail how what you see looks simpler than the original Deus Ex. I have yet to see anything that suggests the gameplay in HR is less sophisticated than that of the original Deus Ex. Literally, not one frame of the leaked footage suggests "dumbed down" gameplay.

If you're talking about giving the player so many "advantages" watch that shootout wit the heavy walker at the end. That **** looked like it was equal to the heavy walker battles of Mass Effect 2 on insane difficulty setting. And that was demo footage (which is, everyone must take into account, always done at dumbass difficulty settings, if not with a cheat package running).

Also, I think the player should have some substantial advantages, given that the particular level was not an opening level. I mean, after New York in the original Deus Ex, if you'd spent your points wisely, you were basically an unstoppable death machine already, even at realistic difficulty setting. And it was absolutely ridiculous how weak JC was starting out. Advanced nanotechnology that everyone is skeeting over, and all you get is a flashlight? Didn't anyone else think that was laughable?

It's because a lot of erm... "zealots" are fans of nostalgia. The type of people that wear shirts that say "it can't be good if anyone else likes it". No one is allowed to touch "their" franchise and add anything which wasn't in the original game.

I can't wait until it's released so a vast majority of people are addicted to the game but the zealots are spending their days on the forums hating on a game. We need these types of people to flip our burgers after all.

jtr7
18th Jul 2010, 12:17
You keep talking about the extremist views as though the people you keep attacking share those views. There's a great deal of room for improvement and advancement without departing from the core principles that define the game and make it distinct.

ⓣⓐⓕⓕⓔⓡ
18th Jul 2010, 12:45
Great post! Somehow makes me envision something like this:
http://www.guzer.com/pictures/bike-riding-sharks.jpg

Equally a TOP post from the forum veteran, fox! ;)

jjc
18th Jul 2010, 14:13
This game will be shallow and superficial on every level when compared to the original Deus Ex. Seeing the gameplay only confirms this as fact, but its not necessary to actually see the gameplay to know this. Any enjoyment that can be gleaned from Deus Ex 3 is fleeting, and is not even in the same stratosphere as that of the original.

Can I borrow your hot tub time machine when you get back?

IOOI
18th Jul 2010, 15:04
Advanced nanotechnology that everyone is skeeting over, and all you get is a flashlight? Didn't anyone else think that was laughable?

Na, not really. JC was a rookie, remember!? JC starts like a "normal"/non-augmented agent and you use the skill points in the beggining to turn JC in the type of agent you want him to be. JC would probably receive his nano-augmentations when he'd get to UNATCO HQ but the nano-augmentation canisters were among the stolen shipments.
It was a nice tie-in: You start only with a set of skills while you're on a mission searching for the stolen shipments (Ambrosia, nano-augs) and then get your "powers" along the way as a reward.

WildcatPhoenix
18th Jul 2010, 15:07
It's because a lot of erm... "zealots" are fans of nostalgia. The type of people that wear shirts that say "it can't be good if anyone else likes it". No one is allowed to touch "their" franchise and add anything which wasn't in the original game.

I can't wait until it's released so a vast majority of people are addicted to the game but the zealots are spending their days on the forums hating on a game. We need these types of people to flip our burgers after all.

This is really the last straw, for me. These "criticize the forum veterans who have genuine concerns with the game" threads are just exhausting. Really, not worth my time.

I'm out. Catch you guys on the flipside.

xsamitt
18th Jul 2010, 15:35
This is really the last straw, for me. These "criticize the forum veterans who have genuine concerns with the game" threads are just exhausting. Really, not worth my time.

I'm out. Catch you guys on the flipside.

I agree,which is why I don't bother trying to get into long debates with those who can't seem to grasp what our fears are.
I believe that the devoted DX fan base has given EM our all.It's really up to them if they decide to listen or not.
We have tried to help as much as we can.The ball is in their court.Either way though,I do wish them the very best,and want to be clear about that.And am hoping that DX3 is a top seller for them and a great game for us.

Anasumtj
18th Jul 2010, 17:09
It's because a lot of erm... "zealots" are fans of nostalgia. The type of people that wear shirts that say "it can't be good if anyone else likes it". No one is allowed to touch "their" franchise and add anything which wasn't in the original game.

I can't wait until it's released so a vast majority of people are addicted to the game but the zealots are spending their days on the forums hating on a game. We need these types of people to flip our burgers after all.

That's great, bro. I think that douche you still have lodged up your keister is making you mighty pompous, so how about you work on that while I tend to your burger. Kay? Thanks, champ.

I think it's priceless that despite all the whining and moaning that comes from those with negative outlooks on this forum, it's always the "optimists" here that manage to act like the biggest, most insulting *******s. Get a medal.

Marses
18th Jul 2010, 18:06
If the leaked gameplay footage of HR is even a vague approximation of the final product
Did you somehow miss the parts where they explained how the gunplay footage was-

You know what? Forget it. If you're that willingly ignorant to what the explicitly stated purpose of that demo was, then a forum post isn't going to help you.

Anasumtj
18th Jul 2010, 18:09
Did you somehow miss the parts where they explained how the gunplay footage was-

You know what? Forget it. If you're that willingly ignorant to what the explicitly stated purpose of that demo was, then a forum post isn't going to help you.

The "gunplay" footage? Oh, dear sir. I meant pretty much all the footage. But please do continue. It would make me happy. Explain to me how the double takedown I saw in that video was just a dev hack and will not be possible in-game. Do it.

Everything looks and reads like crap. PROVE ME WRONG, BUSTER. YOU CAN'T BECAUSE YOU'RE TOO GOD DAMN STUPID. http://forums.snapstream.com/vb/images/smilies/headbang.gif

Edx
18th Jul 2010, 18:16
I dont see how people can tell the story and gameplay is bad/shallow compared to DX1 by looking at the leaked video.

Just take some scenes out of DX1 out of context and they look just as shallow.

At least you can play first person, I, just not sure about the non storyline NPC's seems a bit robotic and kinda DX1-like. I hope they improve that.

Anasumtj
18th Jul 2010, 18:23
Well, I could give you an essay about the takedowns, the third-person cover, the ridiculous augs, the forced cutscenes, etc... All of which will be in the game regardless of how many people here think God Mode and brain-dead AI at an E3 presentation somehow excuses all that.

But honestly, it's been done before and I really don't have it in me to repeat that entire ordeal. If you like those things, fine. They're just not what I want in a Deus Ex game, and I'll be laughing my ass off when the mindset behind this "reboot" flows over into Thief 4 as well.

Shralla
18th Jul 2010, 18:51
brain-dead AI

I thought I saw something... Looked like a guy in a coat.

You're a prat, and you don't even understand why everybody hates you so much.

Ashpolt
18th Jul 2010, 19:06
I thought I saw something... Looked like a guy in a coat.

You're a prat, and you don't even understand why everybody hates you so much.

Excuse me Mr. Pot, but I don't hate Anasumtj.

Kodaemon
18th Jul 2010, 19:07
I'll be laughing my ass off when the mindset behind this "reboot" flows over into Thief 4 as well.

Thing is, I don't thing he'll mind. Note the avatar, he's not a Thief series fan, but rather a Thief: Deadly Shadows fan.

Anasumtj
18th Jul 2010, 19:10
I thought I saw something... Looked like a guy in a coat.

You're a prat, and you don't even understand why everybody hates you so much.

If anybody hates me, I reckon I have a pretty good idea as to why. I'll freely admit I'm likely not the most civil member on this board, but I like to think I'm only being an ass to posters or comments that are pretty much asking for it.

Good sir, if I have offended you, please feel free to direct any concerns or hateful messages to my inbox! It's open all hours and it's really not getting enough use.

Lady_Of_The_Vine
18th Jul 2010, 19:27
Another thread that's lost the plot. :hmm:

Please continue discussion about gameplay footage in The Hive general discussion thread.