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View Full Version : Deus Ex (1) REMAKE FOR XBLA and PSN... why not?



aliko
15th Jul 2010, 11:48
I have PS2 version of Dx1 (and my favorite PC version of course...) But I would loved to play a proper console version.

I think PS2 version did a lot of things right, like inventory.

Just a new direct PC port - with max graphical setting, improved controls and resolution... It would have been awesome.

Make the game load whole level at once and add AA.

I'd payed 1600 Microsoft points for a game like that easy.

Corpus
15th Jul 2010, 12:23
They should just HD it like they did with perfect dark.

Irate_Iguana
15th Jul 2010, 12:32
First, there has been a thread on this already. Might want to read that.

Second, the game is 10 years old. Everybody who can access the internet can play the PC version. Why remake it for consoles?

Unstoppable
15th Jul 2010, 13:26
No remake necessary or wanted. There is not enough fans for this game. If you want to play the game go to Ebay or a game store and buy it used for the Playstation 2. Or search online for a copy on Ebay for the PC version as well as digital delivery services.

It's already been done without remake, it's being distributed digitally. Plus any computer in the average household can run it without a hitch.

aliko
15th Jul 2010, 15:14
It can't that expensive to do the damn port from PC. PS2 version is far from perfect... while it is playable.... it's still not on par with the PC version. As for PC... I just want to play it on my sofa... whats bad in that?

Again... HOW EXPENSIVE MIGHT THAT BE TO DO A SIMPLE PORT OF A OLD PC GAME? Not too expensive in my opinion... I say 3-4 months with a team of 10-15 programmers.

Unstoppable
15th Jul 2010, 15:22
For a game that only a handful of people will buy, smat business decision indeed.

SethSteiner
15th Jul 2010, 15:44
I can`t see anything against the idea. Why shouldn`t people buy it from Live or the PSN? A little bit before or after the release of Deus Ex Human Revolution, the brand will be discussed everywhere. A perfect time to gave the old and new fans what they need - more! These platforms are great for new ideas and modernized old games. Sorry Unstoppable but the success of the other games is the evidence that this isn`t a bad idea at all.

Enderrr
15th Jul 2010, 15:48
Just do a HD re-release, it wouldn't cost that much to do and I'm sure it would be popular both before and after the release of DX:HR.

Ashpolt
15th Jul 2010, 16:01
Though "updating" DX to run on PS3 and Xbox360 wouldn't be a massive amount of effort, it's time and manpower that could be spent (say, just as a for instance) creating a "no third person" toggle for DXHR...and I know which one I'd rather see.

Besides, I don't want to see the forums flooded with "OMG this game suxx0rz hard wtf is wid teh grfix? n why cant i shot stuf good? gayus sex more liek rofl"

So yeah, it's not a terrible idea, but it does seem like a waste of resources that could be better used elsewhere, especially considering pretty much any computer that's been made in the past 8 years can play Deus Ex maxed out, and it's really a game that's designed to be played with mouse and keyboard - yes it can be made to work on a controller, but it'd involve compromise. I really just can't see any purpose for a console port of DX nowadays, tbh. It made sense at release when not everyone's PC could run it (which is a funny thought in itself!) but now? No.

xcrcmiced
15th Jul 2010, 21:21
Part of the appeal of a Deus Ex game is the extent to which you can mess with your environment, there's a reason it was the first big ******* physics game, and I don't think a straight port without some new system in place to replace the rather straight-forward picking **** up with the cursor (which would be awkward as hell, let's face it, with a gamepad) it would lose a lot of the charm.

Romeo
15th Jul 2010, 21:37
I have PS2 version of Dx1 (and my favorite PC version of course...) But I would loved to play a proper console version.

I think PS2 version did a lot of things right, like inventory.

Just a new direct PC port - with max graphical setting, improved controls and resolution... It would have been awesome.

Make the game load whole level at once and add AA.

I'd payed 1600 Microsoft points for a game like that easy.
You know what they should do...

They should just HD it like they did with perfect dark.
Aw, damn it. Beat to the punch. Perfect Dark was actually rather successful in it's re-release. I'm still holding out for a Goldeneye re-release (Not the garbage being done on the Wii) on XBLA. Dual thumbsticks would be nice for that game.

Shralla
16th Jul 2010, 00:16
You know what they should do...

Aw, damn it. Beat to the punch. Perfect Dark was actually rather successful in it's re-release. I'm still holding out for a Goldeneye re-release (Not the garbage being done on the Wii) on XBLA. Dual thumbsticks would be nice for that game.

But Perfect Dark is the same game, but better.

Romeo
16th Jul 2010, 03:17
But Perfect Dark is the same game, but better.
As far as I'm aware, Perfect Dark (Not PD:Zero) is identical to it's predessor, save for re-adapted controls (A necessity obviously), polished up graphics (But necessary and appreciated) and online multiplayer (Not necessary, but most welcome). A similar approach to DX would nice, although they wouldn't have to re-think the controls, they could simply take them from the PS2 version.

Unstoppable
16th Jul 2010, 03:19
If they where goign to do a remake I'd say hire the people doing all the mods and put them on one team. The people who did that single player campaign and the people who are doing the high def textures. Then you would have something significant because it would be the fans that got to work on the game, not just regular developers.

If it's not done this way I see no point to it when you can just get it on the PC plus all the cool mods out for it.

Romeo
16th Jul 2010, 04:11
If they where goign to do a remake I'd say hire the people doing all the mods and put them on one team. The people who did that single player campaign and the people who are doing the high def textures. Then you would have something significant because it would be the fans that got to work on the game, not just regular developers.

If it's not done this way I see no point to it when you can just get it on the PC plus all the cool mods out for it.
$$$ ;)

That being said, I wholly agree with you - get the community to do it, get the costs right down so it could be released for peanuts. Then, everybody wins!

jtr7
16th Jul 2010, 04:56
I can`t see anything against the idea. Why shouldn`t people buy it from Live or the PSN? A little bit before or after the release of Deus Ex Human Revolution, the brand will be discussed everywhere. A perfect time to gave the old and new fans what they need - more! These platforms are great for new ideas and modernized old games. Sorry Unstoppable but the success of the other games is the evidence that this isn`t a bad idea at all.

Who's going to do the work? On what budget? Will they have to hire new people or will they take people off other projects? Will they use existing computer stations, or have to buy more? Will they market it or just have it listed on Steam and let people notice? Will they have to do up new contracts or set up new accounts for any royalties to pay the original team as well as the new one? Are there any second and third and fourth parties to account for?

Romeo
16th Jul 2010, 08:45
Who's going to do the work? On what budget? Will they have to hire new people or will they take people off other projects? Will they use existing computer stations, or have to buy more? Will they market it or just have it listed on Steam and let people notice? Will they have to do up new contracts or set up new accounts for any royalties to pay the original team as well as the new one? Are there any second and third and fourth parties to account for?
dun worri bout it. itz k. :p

VastShadowz41
16th Jul 2010, 16:40
They should just HD it like they did with perfect dark.

Best FPS ever for consoles. Disagree with me and I shall label you a non-believer! :)

And I agree, just an HD update would be necessary.

VastShadowz41
16th Jul 2010, 16:43
As far as I'm aware, Perfect Dark (Not PD:Zero) is identical to it's predessor, save for re-adapted controls (A necessity obviously), polished up graphics (But necessary and appreciated) and online multiplayer (Not necessary, but most welcome). A similar approach to DX would nice, although they wouldn't have to re-think the controls, they could simply take them from the PS2 version.

PD: Zero never existed. Ever. :hmm:

Also, glad to see another Believer in Perfect Dark here. :D

Romeo
16th Jul 2010, 17:31
PD: Zero never existed. Ever. :hmm:

Also, glad to see another Believer in Perfect Dark here. :D
I consider PD:Zero as I consider Invisible War - that is to say under a different banner, the game might have been lauded rather than lambasted. For example, I thought the pre-game economic system, and health system, were both fantastic. I thought their version of infection was great. However, in being held up to the golden child that is Perfect Dark, of course they could no long lay claim to being anywhere near the same experience.

One thing I will admit I don't like about the original Perfect Dark though: The Farsight. I mean, you want the best example of an unbalanced gun even? There it is. lol

VastShadowz41
17th Jul 2010, 01:55
I consider PD:Zero as I consider Invisible War - that is to say under a different banner, the game might have been lauded rather than lambasted. For example, I thought the pre-game economic system, and health system, were both fantastic. I thought their version of infection was great. However, in being held up to the golden child that is Perfect Dark, of course they could no long lay claim to being anywhere near the same experience.

One thing I will admit I don't like about the original Perfect Dark though: The Farsight. I mean, you want the best example of an unbalanced gun even? There it is. lol

True, but I consider PD: Zero to be the same as Goldeneye: Rogue Agent *shudders* :hmm:

Infection I agree, was indeed fun. It was honestly the only fun I had in that game, and pretty much the one positive thing Rare did right. Everything else was a step back.

I believe they balanced the Farsight more in PD XBLA, it tracks people a lot slower, so it's more difficult to hit a running target. They also nerfed the laptop sentry gun and the explosions which had the fans cry out, so they fixed those, sentry gun mows more people down and explosions are closer to the Nintendo 64 version.

Truth be told the matchmaking is rather dead on it, but there's a small cultist community that holds sessions on Fridays/Weekends in fun custom matches (which is PD's strong point).

Romeo
18th Jul 2010, 21:51
True, but I consider PD: Zero to be the same as Goldeneye: Rogue Agent *shudders* :hmm:

Infection I agree, was indeed fun. It was honestly the only fun I had in that game, and pretty much the one positive thing Rare did right. Everything else was a step back.

I believe they balanced the Farsight more in PD XBLA, it tracks people a lot slower, so it's more difficult to hit a running target. They also nerfed the laptop sentry gun and the explosions which had the fans cry out, so they fixed those, sentry gun mows more people down and explosions are closer to the Nintendo 64 version.

Truth be told the matchmaking is rather dead on it, but there's a small cultist community that holds sessions on Fridays/Weekends in fun custom matches (which is PD's strong point).
Oh, see I don't have the new XBLA one, I just still have my N64 hooked up, so that's why I consider the Farsight ridiculously imbalanced. lol

hem dazon 90
20th Jul 2010, 01:04
lol @ the people who think that the Deus Ex fandom should stay as a super secrit cabal of nerds

K^2
20th Jul 2010, 01:27
Afdgi kg sgivs sdfr sgcfac, gk tofsat.

You guys all have your decoder rings, right?

hem dazon 90
20th Jul 2010, 01:30
Afdgi kg sgivs sdfr sgcfac, gk tofsat.

You guys all have your decoder rings, right?


Mine was sent to me broken can I have a new one?

Romeo
20th Jul 2010, 06:08
Afdgi kg sgivs sdfr sgcfac, gk tofsat.

You guys all have your decoder rings, right?
Well, the last word looks kinda like toast, so I'm thinking the phrase has something to do with wheat products... :p

Shinji Ex
24th Jul 2010, 10:22
I nominate Valve to do the HD version! they got nothing else to do as of late

aliko
24th Jul 2010, 16:18
I nominate Valve to do the HD version! they got nothing else to do as of late

Wel.. except for that "little" game called Portal 2... (and if anyone still cares "HL2:EP3")

K^2
24th Jul 2010, 18:10
I'm wondering if they are going to use any of the new Source features developed for Portal 2, like the fluid mechanics, in the Ep3.

Shinji Ex
25th Jul 2010, 02:54
Wel.. except for that "little" game called Portal 2... (and if anyone still cares "HL2:EP3")

Half Life 2 Episode 3 will never come out :rolleyes:

They could have made 2 full Half Life games by now :rolleyes:

K^2
25th Jul 2010, 03:19
I guess you forgot the original wait for HL2.

It's nice to know that there are constants in this world, even if some of them are annoying.

Romeo
25th Jul 2010, 04:29
This thread seriously needs a poll. Then we need to vote yes. Then someone from Eidos needs to see the yes-count and began making an XBLA version. Then he needs to sell it.

It could take a while.

Pooeypants
25th Jul 2010, 11:34
Wait, do a HD version of a PC Classic for the console? I don't mean to be disrespectful but the original game was built for the PC in mind. The whole interface and control system requires a keyboard but at least with today's console hardware, the game levels don't need to be finely chopped up (PS2 version had a lot of loading).
If anything, the HD version should come for the PC first (via Steam, it'll reach millions of players), which still has a strong following.

Romeo
25th Jul 2010, 22:37
Wait, do a HD version of a PC Classic for the console? I don't mean to be disrespectful but the original game was built for the PC in mind. The whole interface and control system requires a keyboard but at least with today's console hardware, the game levels don't need to be finely chopped up (PS2 version had a lot of loading).
If anything, the HD version should come for the PC first (via Steam, it'll reach millions of players), which still has a strong following.
I don't know about a full-scale game, but XNA is pretty easy to work with, and I've heard the Xbox is general is pretty easy to translate to, so I'm thinking it wouldn't take much to release it on both platforms. As for the PC one though, you know that most of those idiots will simply pirate the original PC one anyways, kinda negating the whole point of it. lol

Shralla
25th Jul 2010, 23:36
Nobody that had anything to do with the original game will ever see any money from the sales of the current copy of Deus Ex on Steam, or theoretical future copies. The only "point" of an updated version would be to drive up interest, which would happen even if they pirated it.

singularity
26th Jul 2010, 10:34
Nobody that had anything to do with the original game will ever see any money from the sales of the current copy of Deus Ex on Steam, or theoretical future copies. The only "point" of an updated version would be to drive up interest, which would happen even if they pirated it.

Very true, but people don't pirate decade-old games that you can just download off Steam for 9 bucks. At least most people don't.

As much as I hate to say it, DX remains very much an old, obscure part of computer-nerd territority, and that likely won't even change with the release of DXHR. I seriously laughed out loud yesterday as one of my roommates dragged me into the living room to show me the HD trailer for DXHR on the XBOX, saying there was a new game coming he was stoked for and was following, and it looked to be right up my ally too. He was floored when I told him there were 2.5 (if you include Snowblind) other titles in the series and I have been a fan for 10 years.

True -- original dev team and those involved with DX would not reap the profits of a remake, which is very sad to say the least. But with all this talk on these boards of how "DX was a blueprint for how games should be built!" and "it was so ahead of it's time and the industry screwed everything up!" I'm surprised so few are for a remake.

It would allow something we all love to be shared and appreciated by more people. How is this not a good thing (assuming it goes the Perfect Dark route and just gets some new paint and different controls)?

Shralla
26th Jul 2010, 18:10
Very true, but people don't pirate decade-old games that you can just download off Steam for 9 bucks. At least most people don't.

I think you have a delusional view of "most" PC gamers. Old games get "pirated" more than any other, because they're the most justifiable. Nobody wants to spend ten dollars on a 10-year-old PC game when most console games of that age are being resold for <$5, and previous to the introduction of Steam, piracy was the ONLY way to access the older games, with the exception of eBay, which is where you can find a solo copy of Deus Ex for $3.25
http://cgi.ebay.com/Deus-Ex-US-PC-Version-Perfect-Guaranteed-Shooter-/190420750961?cmd=ViewItem&pt=Video_Games_Games&hash=item2c55f61271

Or you can find Deus Ex, Prey, and Unreal Tournament 3 all together for $7.99, still less than Steam sells Deus Ex for.
http://cgi.ebay.com/Unreal-Tournament-III-DEUS-EX-PREY-3PC-/310235744208?cmd=ViewItem&pt=Video_Games_Games&hash=item483b7dc7d0

Shipping adds cost, yeah, but I think you get my point. The only reason I ended up getting Deus Ex on Steam was because they had a sale where it went for $2.50. If somebody's friend tells them to check out a 10-year-old game on the PC, most people are going to be extremely hesitant of spending 1/5th the cost of a brand new game to play it, and if they're already an avid PC gamer, then they almost definitely know how to use torrents.

FrankCSIS
27th Jul 2010, 02:25
But with all this talk on these boards of how "DX was a blueprint for how games should be built!" and "it was so ahead of it's time and the industry screwed everything up!" I'm surprised so few are for a remake.

Waste of time and ressource, mostly. If someone is genuinely interested into bringing back a title with this kind of design philosophy in mind, as much as I adore DX, I'd really rather have an entirely original game. Added bonus if it's an entirely different setting, or a different approach on Cyberpunk.

Romeo
27th Jul 2010, 15:07
Very true, but people don't pirate decade-old games that you can just download off Steam for 9 bucks. At least most people don't.
Didn't you read about the fiasco about when there was a group of five games available for download, and the buyer could set their own price, even right down to a single penny. The package still had over 60% piracy rate. For a penny. Don't kid yourself, piracy is due to a sense self-importance more than price.

Pooeypants
28th Jul 2010, 23:29
I don't know about a full-scale game, but XNA is pretty easy to work with, and I've heard the Xbox is general is pretty easy to translate to, so I'm thinking it wouldn't take much to release it on both platforms. As for the PC one though, you know that most of those idiots will simply pirate the original PC one anyways, kinda negating the whole point of it. lolWhen given the option for a set cost or no cost, there will be no contest. However, that doesn't mean if you price a product right, you wouldn't gain more sales. The steam sales are evidence of this fact (I'll try to dig up figures) but I think you'll find most of Deus ex fans will happily pay for a HD version. I've got the GOTY boxed version from years ago and I still bought the Steam version because it was on sale for a ludicrously low price. I know that quite a few of my friends who are fans have also done the same.
What I find absurd are those people who can buy an i7 core with a GTX 480/5970 and then go on to pirate games stating they have no money.... well of course you don't after spending so much on your overspecced gear!

Romeo
30th Jul 2010, 01:51
When given the option for a set cost or no cost, there will be no contest. However, that doesn't mean if you price a product right, you wouldn't gain more sales. The steam sales are evidence of this fact (I'll try to dig up figures) but I think you'll find most of Deus ex fans will happily pay for a HD version. I've got the GOTY boxed version from years ago and I still bought the Steam version because it was on sale for a ludicrously low price. I know that quite a few of my friends who are fans have also done the same.
What I find absurd are those people who can buy an i7 core with a GTX 480/5970 and then go on to pirate games stating they have no money.... well of course you don't after spending so much on your overspecced gear!
I still say the problem is a sense of self-entitlement. Whether it's a ten year old game or a brand new one, people feel like they deserve a game, regardless of if they paid for it or not. I'm actually kinda hoping the industry gets close to a collapse, so it will maybe wake those people up.

ArthurBatusich
30th Jul 2010, 04:29
Oh, lucky americans, you pay ridiculous prices for a PC Game, where I live, a Steam game is a fortune, i don't know why... D:

Man, take a look at this!! A pre-ordered Deus Ex: HR is for sale, R$199,00!!
Who would pay 199 bucks in a PS3 game ?!!!1!!1!!!1!!!!!1!

Fluffis
30th Jul 2010, 05:45
I still say the problem is a sense of self-entitlement. Whether it's a ten year old game or a brand new one, people feel like they deserve a game, regardless of if they paid for it or not. I'm actually kinda hoping the industry gets close to a collapse, so it will maybe wake those people up.

As long as people are willing to pay about 60-70 bucks for a console game, the industry won't collapse due to piracy.

However, there will always be people who pirate games. No amount of "waking up" will affect them.

Romeo
31st Jul 2010, 23:36
As long as people are willing to pay about 60-70 bucks for a console game, the industry won't collapse due to piracy.

However, there will always be people who pirate games. No amount of "waking up" will affect them.
It's not the console market I'm concerned about - it's the PC one. My two favourite genres, RTS and RPG, are the only two I buy for PC, so if the PC collapses, I stand to lose quite a bit. But again, there's nothing more pathetic than people that will whine about prices, so in the circumstance I mentioned, they were allowed to set their own price down to a penny, and most people still pirated the game. I'd either love to see them hit hard by legalities, or, as I said, bring the industry to the brink of collapse (Without permanently killing it), and hopefully get them away from the habit.

FrankCSIS
2nd Aug 2010, 03:05
Piracy really ought to be left out of this. I got the first Warcraft from a friend of my brother's on a bunch of floppies, and in high school, from 1996 to 1999, people were burning games on CD's like there was no tomorrow. I was the only guy who had played the first GTA when it came out in my high school, which we promptly copied by the dozen. Didn't stop them from turning it into one of the biggest franchise out there, because the sales were still there. I had never heard about Warcraft when it came out, but those floppies got me to buy Warcraft 2 the week it came out. There has always been, in the gaming industry, a certain balance of pirated and purchased games, and I refuse to consider the numbers have exploded since then, internet or not.

Not saying it's good for business, and of course the industry would benefit from a complete stop of all piracy issues, but no one will ever convince me it has suddenly become a problem which wasn't just as prevalent before. It's not a non-issue, but it's the same issue which existed back in the 90's. The only difference is the social network of "pirates" has changed, but it was just as easy back then to get your hands on a popular game for 5$ instead of 90$ (which was how much I paid in 1997 for my boxed original of GTA). Even worse, people were actually making money out of their copies, unlike today. It could be a lucrative business for a high school kid with a burner back then.

Romeo
2nd Aug 2010, 06:22
Piracy really ought to be left out of this. I got the first Warcraft from a friend of my brother's on a bunch of floppies, and in high school, from 1996 to 1999, people were burning games on CD's like there was no tomorrow. I was the only guy who had played the first GTA when it came out in my high school, which we promptly copied by the dozen. Didn't stop them from turning it into one of the biggest franchise out there, because the sales were still there. I had never heard about Warcraft when it came out, but those floppies got me to buy Warcraft 2 the week it came out. There has always been, in the gaming industry, a certain balance of pirated and purchased games, and I refuse to consider the numbers have exploded since then, internet or not.

Not saying it's good for business, and of course the industry would benefit from a complete stop of all piracy issues, but no one will ever convince me it has suddenly become a problem which wasn't just as prevalent before. It's not a non-issue, but it's the same issue which existed back in the 90's. The only difference is the social network of "pirates" has changed, but it was just as easy back then to get your hands on a popular game for 5$ instead of 90$ (which was how much I paid in 1997 for my boxed original of GTA). Even worse, people were actually making money out of their copies, unlike today. It could be a lucrative business for a high school kid with a burner back then.
But it's still the very act of it that offends me. Only in the entertainment industry do people think it's alright to simply take other people's work. You don't get your car repaired and not pay the mechanic. You don't go to a restaurant and not pay for a meal. You don't get work done on your house and not pay the carpenter.

Yet for some reason, movie makers, musicians and game devellopers invest years of labour, and pour millions to create something, and people just assume that it's their right to have it.

Irate_Iguana
2nd Aug 2010, 07:51
Yet for some reason, movie makers, musicians and game devellopers invest years of labour, and pour millions to create something, and people just assume that it's their right to have it.

You're comparing theft to a copyright violation. That is not a correct comparison. You don't think twice about copying a page out of a textbook, yet it is essentially the same.

Romeo
2nd Aug 2010, 08:48
You're comparing theft to a copyright violation. That is not a correct comparison. You don't think twice about copying a page out of a textbook, yet it is essentially the same.
I fail to understand how they are not a correct comparison, they are both theft, as is copying a page out of a book without permission.

But as you disagree, let me elect to bring up a different example then: In the car world, there is alot of custom bracketing and whatnot when adapting parts. For my car in particular, there's a set of brake adapters to mount larger brakes from a Corvette onto it. Once the first customer bought the kit, they could have done up a CAD illustration so others wouldn't have to pay $400 a pop to get those same brackets. Yet, no one does. Because although it's expensive, someone designed that, built it, inspected it, and then marketed it. We know, as car lovers, that copying the design is simply wrong.

Irate_Iguana
2nd Aug 2010, 09:00
I fail to understand how they are not a correct comparison.

A copyright violation is just what the name implies. Something is being copied without permission. The original is still there and can still be used. The other instances are theft. The original work has been removed from the person who created it. Going into a store and leaving without paying for the CD is theft. Making a digital copy of the CD while leaving the original in the store would be a copyright violation. It's a subtle difference that was apparently interesting enough for the law to differentiate between, yet most people like to overreact and pretend that it is the same as theft. Stop overreacting and see the violation for what it really is.



We know, as car lovers, that copying the design is simply wrong.

So is copying a CD wrong, but people still do it. Just because it is not the same as theft doesn't mean that it isn't still against the law. Ok, it isn't strictly against the law where I live, but still in most countries it is.

GhostofaMessiah
2nd Aug 2010, 12:46
They should just HD it like they did with perfect dark.

All this technology and you just wanna have the old one in HD? Why not just have it re-imagined? Stick to the script, the characters, the mission and the storyline and overall concept even bring back as much of the old voice talent as possible. Then re-invent the wheel so to speak. Newer weapons and more varried augmentations, expand the universe with more vast level design to give it that coveted free roam feel. The building blocks are there; story, script ect. the sky is only limited by imagination.

Re-invent the wheel. Make perfect more perfect.

Romeo
2nd Aug 2010, 18:02
A copyright violation is just what the name implies. Something is being copied without permission. The original is still there and can still be used. The other instances are theft. The original work has been removed from the person who created it. Going into a store and leaving without paying for the CD is theft. Making a digital copy of the CD while leaving the original in the store would be a copyright violation. It's a subtle difference that was apparently interesting enough for the law to differentiate between, yet most people like to overreact and pretend that it is the same as theft. Stop overreacting and see the violation for what it really is.




So is copying a CD wrong, but people still do it. Just because it is not the same as theft doesn't mean that it isn't still against the law. Ok, it isn't strictly against the law where I live, but still in most countries it is.
But the fundamental act of it is still theft. In the exact same way not paying for a service is. You have gotten something, which has a price associated with it, for free. The law also differentiates between three types of murder, but at the end of the day, it's still murder. Like I said, I feel for the entertainment industry, they're more-or-less defenseless. Someone doesn't pay us mechanics? We take their car. Someone doesn't pay the carpenter? A lien gets put on the house. Someone doesn't pay a game develloper? Oh too bad, what are you gonna do...

All this technology and you just wanna have the old one in HD? Why not just have it re-imagined? Stick to the script, the characters, the mission and the storyline and overall concept even bring back as much of the old voice talent as possible. Then re-invent the wheel so to speak. Newer weapons and more varried augmentations, expand the universe with more vast level design to give it that coveted free roam feel. The building blocks are there; story, script ect. the sky is only limited by imagination.

Re-invent the wheel. Make perfect more perfect.
While I could perhaps live with a few more augs, weapons and mods, I think there is a very precise line that must not be crossed here. Invisible War re-invented the wheel. Human Revolution is looking to re-invent the wheel. Deus Ex fans don't want a new wheel. They want the old fashioned circle they've had since day one. Just give them what they want.

FrankCSIS
2nd Aug 2010, 23:25
Like I said, I feel for the entertainment industry, they're more-or-less defenseless. Someone doesn't pay us mechanics? We take their car. Someone doesn't pay the carpenter? A lien gets put on the house. Someone doesn't pay a game develloper? Oh too bad, what are you gonna do...

The difference, if ever so subtle, mostly comes from our relationship to arts and entertainment. Unlike production goods and services, it has never been perceived, or presented, as a pure economic product. The creators themselves, as far back as we can probably trace them, promoted their art as something beyond consumerism, as something which could not really be bought or possessed. You rarely bought art, more often than not a pension was paid for to the artist, not for the creation itself.

The case of libraries, museums, radio and public television also speaks loads about our relationship to those creations. Distribution and accessibility has always been more important than cold sales, even to a creator who can't even live from his art. What industry do you know which has the same relationship to their clients, and has purposefully entertained a culture of gratuity over centuries for the sake of distribution?

The crown, the church and private benefactors heavily spent public or communial funds in large amounts to maximise the amount of creators and to ensure their work would be seen and enjoyed by all for the smallest possible price, if any at all, and artists have always supported this model. While the music, movie and game industry has since syndicalised itself in production houses, their model still heavily relies and depends on public funds, on a star system and on mass distribution for a small price, if any.

I will be blunt here, but if Montreal and the province of Quebec did not offer such enormous tax cuts and other subsidies, there most likely would not be an Eidos Montreal at all. Ubisoft probably wouldn't be here, or at least they wouldn't be so prominent in the city and EA would have never come, simply because the economy could not support such a large amount of game developpers and other related artists in the city, and EA mainly came for the quality and diversity of the work force, as well as the tax cuts of course.

The entertainment industry's economic model is entirely biased by subsidies, and does not represent its true market value and possibility. There are far more creators producing themselves than what the hard economy can support. I'm glad for it, don't get me wrong, but I think it's a mistake to pretend piracy has much to do with the failures of the model. In reality a movie ticket cannot retail for 5 or 10$, and a game with such high production value can't be sold for 69$ in 2010, when a gameboy game would sell for 80$ in 1995.

Moreso, what other industry do you know which has a target audience with an average yearly income of 0 to 3000$? How can you systematically target high school and college students, and hope to sell millions of copies of every game, film, cd or book that comes out? It's just not viable. You cannot consider that a game pirated is a game stolen or a sale lost, because if piracy was not possible the sale would simply not have happened, and the game would have been left unpurchased. If it were purchased, it would come from the bargain bin, where most if not all of the sale goes to the store and the distributor.

Again, I'm not saying it's right, but there is quite a big distinction to make between car parts and artisitic entertainment pieces, and our relationship to them. This culture of gratuity did not come with the internet, unlike what the boomers and some bourgeois artists would like to peg on the internet generation. You can't simply hope to erase it now that production houses have put their paws and claws around this incredibly lucrative business.

GhostofaMessiah
3rd Aug 2010, 04:17
But the fundamental act of it is still theft. In the exact same way not paying for a service is. You have gotten something, which has a price associated with it, for free. The law also differentiates between three types of murder, but at the end of the day, it's still murder. Like I said, I feel for the entertainment industry, they're more-or-less defenseless. Someone doesn't pay us mechanics? We take their car. Someone doesn't pay the carpenter? A lien gets put on the house. Someone doesn't pay a game develloper? Oh too bad, what are you gonna do...

While I could perhaps live with a few more augs, weapons and mods, I think there is a very precise line that must not be crossed here. Invisible War re-invented the wheel. Human Revolution is looking to re-invent the wheel. Deus Ex fans don't want a new wheel. They want the old fashioned circle they've had since day one. Just give them what they want.

Thats perfectly understandable but unrealistic... Some times you have to embrace change. I still play the first Deus Ex from time to time and I will always have a special place for it in my memory. That game at the time defined what gameing was to me, at the time at least... The next game I played that did that was Mass Effect then Fallout 3. But I would give anything If I could re-experience it with Deus Ex.

Romeo
3rd Aug 2010, 04:22
I actually would buy it if they packaged up DX and DX:IW. Yeah, I went there.

JCPhillps
26th Sep 2011, 19:02
Bring HD remake or even revamp the origional game with todays graphics, yeah it would be costly but theyd be attracting alot of fans of the origional, I know Id want to play it.

MaxxQ1
27th Sep 2011, 05:32
Bring HD remake or even revamp the origional game with todays graphics, yeah it would be costly but theyd be attracting alot of fans of the origional, I know Id want to play it.

You really necroposted a 13 1/2 month old thread? I understand you might have wanted to say something regarding the subject, but I think in this case, it might have been better to start a new thread and let the mods decide to merge it or not.

cqc_batman
27th Sep 2011, 18:08
You know what the developers should've done? They should've released an HD version or added the orignal copy of Deus Ex in the DVD or bluray disc for those who bought the augmented edition so that they could play the game right after they beaten HR. That's what they should've done. I mean Deus Ex right now is $10 on steam. But a console version using the gamepad controller would've been nice.