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Pretentious Old Man.
13th Jul 2010, 22:33
In the context of the recent, raging debates about what it truly means to be a Deus Ex game, I suddenly remembered this gem of an IGN interview from 11 years ago. On a whim I checked it out, and fortunately I was right, and it was still there. This is probably the best interview about any Deus Ex game I've ever come across, and is suitably juicy to make for interesting reading.

Do enjoy. I hope it can act as a reference point at the inevitable resumption of the endless "what makes a Deus Ex game?" debate. (God, that sounds like Ravel from Torment...)

http://uk.pc.ign.com/articles/071/071578p1.html

:flowers:

Pinky_Powers
13th Jul 2010, 22:48
It's gratifying to see Spector's ideas on what makes a Rollplaying game line up with my own. It's not about skill points or stats, but the ability to develop your character in your own way.

Pretentious Old Man.
13th Jul 2010, 22:49
It's gratifying to see Spector's ideas on what makes a Rollplaying game line up with my own. It's not about skill points or stats, but the ability to develop your character in your own way.

For what it's worth, I concur.

Angel-A
13th Jul 2010, 23:10
That is just golden. Excellent find, POM.



Rollplaying game
http://larko.planet.ee/larkoorg/broetchen.jpg

Pinky_Powers
13th Jul 2010, 23:26
That is just golden. Excellent find, POM.



the roll of life (http://larko.planet.ee/larkoorg/broetchen.jpg)

You have a cruel way of enraging my Hunger Monster. :(

Sabretooth1
14th Jul 2010, 02:15
(God, that sounds like Ravel from Torment...)

*Know* that I think that you *know* how right you are.

Shralla
14th Jul 2010, 03:20
Nobody responds like this for interviews anymore.

Hell, no developers TALK like this anymore. I've never seen somebody so pumped about his project, with such a set determination to make it worth the purchase.


I don't see the point in asking players to give me their hard-earned money (and their time) in exchange for an imitation, and not a very good one, of an experience they can have in another medium.

NOBODY WOULD EVER SAY THAT IN MODERN GAME DEVELOPMENT.

FrankCSIS
14th Jul 2010, 03:42
Modern as opposed to what exactly?

Time flies by. I hadn't realise just how ancient I have become.

Pinky_Powers
14th Jul 2010, 03:55
It is very disheartening that the philosophies began with Ultima and System Shock, and then Deus Ex, haven't grown or evolved, but are largely forgotten. And when they aren't forgotten, they're heavily gimped.

loveassassin13
14th Jul 2010, 05:20
If you want to talk about what it means to be a deus ex game, I think this article sums it up pretty much perfectly.

http://www.pcgamer.com/2010/06/14/taking-liberties/

Shralla
14th Jul 2010, 05:49
I finished reading it, and some of the stuff is kinda funny. A lot of what they talk about towards the end with the AI is, as near as I can remember, completely impossible.


I went into a bar and shot a character I knew was an enemy. Everyone in the bar suddenly spooked and ran into the bathroom. Feeling a little malicious that day, I followed them to the door of the bathroom and began to fire on the huddled masses. Out of nowhere, someone began shooting at me! Just before I went down, I turned to look back in the bar and saw that a policeman had heard the sounds of gunfire, come in from the streets outside and was blowing me away. I didn't even know they could detect the shots from inside the bar!

They can't!

WildcatPhoenix
14th Jul 2010, 13:42
Lol yes, I loved this article, but I'm not sure exactly what AI Warren was talking about?? :scratch:

JCpies
14th Jul 2010, 15:14
I finished reading it, and some of the stuff is kinda funny. A lot of what they talk about towards the end with the AI is, as near as I can remember, completely impossible.



They can't!

Maybe he's refering to the Lucky Money? The police from outside can enter if they 'hear' me shooting...

Pinky_Powers
14th Jul 2010, 16:05
Am I the only one who read "lady police officer" and was like "What? Where?!"

It would have been nice to see some diversity in the cops, soldiers and guards.

Angel-A
14th Jul 2010, 21:03
Yeah, it sure was weird to see all that gender imbalance :scratch: The only women you'd could expect to see in the military settings were the scientists and secretaries (secretaries, btw, all used the same one model, even though there seemed to be other models for it).
You'd think in 50 years the ratios would be a far more even due to the gender equality movements. I was expecting the whole game to see them somewhere and they never showed. Almost no where in the game do women fight, just Anna Navarre, really.

A mod for this would be sweet.

Pinky_Powers
14th Jul 2010, 21:54
Yes. There was just a number of WIB agents that I can recall. And they're not strictly human, are they?

http://images2.wikia.nocookie.net/deusex/en/images/1/19/Mib_dts.jpg

super...
14th Jul 2010, 22:05
if i read right mib are human with strange kind of chemical or pharmaceutical augmentation, their are constant notes about how they are working to prevent the albino effect. And they go into detail about what version of the chemical they are working with and what the side effects are. They appear to have a near religious devotion to the MJ 12 leaders.

oh they explode because they have a bomb planted in them to prevent their body from falling into enemy hands. not sure what the deal is with the voice.

Pinky_Powers
14th Jul 2010, 22:32
not sure what the deal is with the voice.

Must have something to do with how extensive the augmentations are; perhaps even their larynx has been replaced.

Conspiratorially, men in black agents have been reported to speak unnaturally (G-Man plays off this as well), and seems almost uncomfortable in their own skin.

Ilves
14th Jul 2010, 22:35
MiB's (and I don't mean the Will Smith variety) make for the most unsettling urban legends ever. I remember seeing a pseudo documentary on google vids a few years back- I was spooked for days. :D

Rindill the Red
15th Jul 2010, 03:18
"Harvey Smith: I want to be able to fully explore and interact with an environment in as immersive, self-expressive way possible. If something occurs to me in the game world, I want to be empowered to try it. And I want the results of the action, even if they are not always what I expected, to be interest and plausible."

-- Yes.

atLaNt1s
15th Jul 2010, 03:23
I think pacman was very immersive

Rindill the Red
15th Jul 2010, 03:52
I think pacman was very immersive

http://i25.tinypic.com/1zvyatg.jpg

Pinky_Powers
15th Jul 2010, 04:07
MiB's (and I don't mean the Will Smith variety) make for the most unsettling urban legends ever. I remember seeing a pseudo documentary on google vids a few years back- I was spooked for days. :D

I know what you mean. They're almost as unsettling as the Mothman.

These things make it hard to sleep some nights.

Ilves
15th Jul 2010, 05:57
I know what you mean. They're almost as unsettling as the Mothman.

Richard Gere is pretty scary.

Fluffis
15th Jul 2010, 06:02
Richard Gere is pretty scary.

Thank you! I've always thought so!

Something about his face just completely creeps me out. I can't understand why so many women love him - granted I'm a guy, so I usually don't, but this guy just looks... weird.

Pinky_Powers
15th Jul 2010, 16:43
Richard Gere is pretty scary.

That's weak, mate. And you don't have a leg to stand on, talking about MiB, and the two films relating to it. Yet you still couldn't help yourself. :hmm:

IOOI
15th Jul 2010, 17:22
oh they explode because they have a bomb planted in them to prevent their body from falling into enemy hands.

Yeah, I loved the self-destruction device on the MIBs, but what I loved more was that if explosives were used to kill other NPCs (gibs) all that they were carrying would be gone (keys, weapons,...). That's was pretty clever from the devs part because it made me change the way I engaged enemies.

Ilves
15th Jul 2010, 18:43
That's weak, mate. And you don't have a leg to stand on, talking about MiB, and the two films relating to it. Yet you still couldn't help yourself. :hmm:

What’s wrong, Pinky? Sometimes the internet eludes me. (I mean, you did know about this (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Mothman_Prophecies_(film)), right?)

And sorry for spamming, since it’s such a gem of an interview. A real joy to read. Makes me wonder whether today’s developers are simply advised by their PR machines against speaking about game play mechanics on this level.

Kodaemon
15th Jul 2010, 18:54
Speaking of MiBs, urban legends etc, I just got into the whole Slender Man thing, and I love it - it's sort of like MiB combined with lovecraftian fiction, which is a combination that works wonderfully for me. Doesn't matter at all that he was basically created on the SomethingAwful forums.

Angel-A
15th Jul 2010, 21:13
Yes. There was just a number of WIB agents that I can recall. And they're not strictly human, are they?

http://images2.wikia.nocookie.net/deusex/en/images/1/19/Mib_dts.jpg
Hey, those ones don't count; everyone knows they don't have souls.
No seriously, I completely forgot about the Black Suits. :mad2: Yeah, we do have the WiBs as female combatants. Was the highest concentration of them in Versalife? I only recall seeing them there and some in Paris.

At any rate, I shall point out that I have a bad memory.
Like, really bad...

Tverdyj
16th Jul 2010, 01:56
I think there was one at the Gas station too....

and a dead one, floating in Vandenberg.

Pinky_Powers
16th Jul 2010, 03:13
I think there was one at the Gas station too....

and a dead one, floating in Vandenberg.

I was thinking the same thing.

It's hard to recall every appearance of an enemy-type.

Tverdyj
16th Jul 2010, 03:33
I was thinking the same thing.

It's hard to recall every appearance of an enemy-type.

the one at the gas station I remember. Because in order to rescue Tiffany, I always used to go through the roof, and then throw a gas grenade to mess up the MiBs, before they could kill her.

and the one invandenbers is in a locked room under water, and got an aug upgrade caninster on her, I think. I wasted tons of multitools to open the door, since the floating makes you break contact with the keypad. that, and it's like 3 flights of stairs under water.

TrickyVein
16th Jul 2010, 03:38
There were also some at Area-51, in the tunnels, in the break-room/living quarters (I believe). Could open up the editor and find out.

If you were using a mouse + pad, it wouldn't have been hard to keep your aim centered. I suspect you were playing the PS2 version. :)

Tverdyj
16th Jul 2010, 14:37
nope, i'm a PC elitist.

it's not hard to keep it centered, it's just that you have to keep moving "forward" underwater, otherwise your body tends to float "away" from the keypad while you are using the multitool.

when you don't have the swim skill, and the oxygen's running out, you try to take advantage of the fact that the mutitool still works even as you start to move away already to swim up 3 flighs of stairs, grab some air, and then come back down to open the door and grab the reward.

Angel-A
16th Jul 2010, 18:02
Yeh, I'm talking about appearences of the WiBs, not MiBs. Basically every mission on from when Walton shows up had a MiB or five, but the WiBs didn't appear to be as common. Walton had MiB bodyguards, a MiB heads the team sent to kill J.C. and Paul, there was a MiB in UNATCO's 4th level (MJ12 level), but I don't think we saw any WiBs until Versalife. There, several were guarding the facility along with MiBs.