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Sabretooth1
12th Jul 2010, 17:22
WARNING: This thread contains spoilers.
Please be considerate. When posting/discussing elements of the story, be sure to hide the information inside spoiler tags. Thank you.



Moderator Updates:
http://i1087.photobucket.com/albums/j472/Twizted_Viewz/Deus%20Ex%20Human%20Revolution/icaruseffect.jpg


Cover art by Jim Murray,


Here's the official press release.




DEL REY BOOKS ANNOUNCES NOVEL BASED ON THE DEUS EX® VIDEO GAME SERIES

NEW YORK, NY – July 13, 2010 – Del Rey, an imprint of Ballantine Books at the Random House Publishing Group, announced today that Del Rey Books will publish a novel based on the Deus Ex® video game series. DEUS EX: THE ICARUS EFFECT will be written by author James Swallow and will release in 2011.

DEUS EX: THE ICARUS EFFECT is set in the complex and enthralling world of Deus Ex, a cyberpunk-style technological dystopia where all is not what it seems. In the not-so-distant future, the world is a place of great innovation and technological advancement... but also a place of chaos and conspiracy. New technologies push the limits of human potential, even while they threaten the very future of the world. And from the shadows, dark and secret powers are coming together to take control, intent on designs so large, so intricate, they will take decades to come to fruition. But when two unlikely heroes—Anna Kelso, a Secret Service agent, and Ben Saxon, a special-ops soldier—draw uncomfortably close to the truth, the choices they make here and now will alter the course of history... or usher in an age of darkness.

“We’re really pleased to be able to announce this new DEUS EX novel with Del Rey books,” said Andre Vu, Marketing Game Manager, Deus Ex. “The novel is set in the DEUS EX universe and there will be characters and story elements in it, that will overlap with our next videogame DEUS EX: HUMAN REVOLUTION, which we hope fans will be very excited about.”

DEUS EX: HUMAN REVOLUTION the game has recently been unveiled at E3 2010 in Los Angeles, where the game received over 25 award nominations from gaming media from around the world, securing 13 awards at the show.

DEUS EX: THE ICARUS EFFECT will release in North America and Europe in 2011, the book will also be available in many other countries around the world please keep an eye on the Official Deus Ex: Human Revolution website for further details.

ABOUT THE AUTHOR:
JAMES SWALLOW is a renowned science fiction author whose first foray into writing came with the Sundowners Series, published in 2001. Since then, Swallow has gone on to pen both novels and scripts for popular franchises such as Doctor Who, Stargate, Warhammer 40,000, and Star Trek. He has also worked on numerous videogames including Star Trek Invasion, Maelstrom, and Killzone 2. In 2009 the International Association of Media Tie-in Writers awarded James with the Scribe Award for Best Speculative Fiction Original. He lives and works in the UK.

ABOUT DEL REY:
Del Rey Books (http://www.delreybooks.com) was founded in 1977 as an imprint of Ballantine Books, a division of the Random House Publishing Group, under the guidance of the renowned Judy-Lynn del Rey and her husband, Lester del Rey. Del Rey publishes the best of modern fantasy, science fiction, and alternate history. In 2004 it expanded by launching Del Rey Manga, which has grown to be a major force in the U.S. graphic-novel field.

About Square Enix Ltd.
Square Enix Ltd., a part of Square Enix Europe business unit, is a London-based wholly-owned subsidiary of Square Enix Holdings Co., Ltd., one of the most influential providers of digital entertainment content in the world. Square Enix Ltd. publishes and distributes entertainment content from the Square Enix Group including Square Enix, Eidos and Taito in Europe and other PAL territories. Square Enix Ltd. also has a global network of leading development studios such as IO Interactive, Crystal Dynamics and Eidos Montréal. The Square Enix Group boasts a valuable portfolio of intellectual property including: FINAL FANTASY, which has sold over 97 million units worldwide, DRAGON QUEST® which has sold over 54 million units worldwide and TOMB RAIDER® which has sold over 35 million units worldwide, together with other well established products.

More information on Square Enix Ltd. can be found on the Internet at http://www.square-enix.com



Del Rey Books, publishers of the US edition of Icarus Effect, have put up a guest blog from me over at their Suvudu site here (http://suvudu.com/2011/02/deus-ex-writer-james-swallow-on-writing-video-games-vs-writing-novels.html).


The US edition is published by Del Rey Books
The UK edition is being published by Titan Books - http://titanbooks.com/deus-ex-the-icarus-effect-5285/



As promised, here's some information on the German edition of Deus Ex: Icarus Effect (or Der Icarus Effekt, if you prefer) being published by Panini on July 19th.

http://www.paninicomics.de/deus-ex-der-icarus-effekt-i7407.html

http://media2.libri.de/shop/coverscans/148/14849624_14849624_xl.jpg



__


Q&A's.


Does the book contain spoilers about the game?
A: That all depends on how strict you are with your definition of the term "spoiler". Does it give away huge pieces of the game's plotline? No. In fact, I (James Swallow) worked very closely with EM, with the specific remit to stay well clear of any major game story twists.
Does it reveal details about the world of Deus Ex Human Revolution and some of the supporting characters? Yes.



Will the book be available in hard cover, or only in paperback?
A: Icarus Effect will be available in trade paperback format.



Is it available in Australia yet? I haven't been able to find it at any of my usual haunts.
A: Borders stock The Icarus Effect. http://www.borders.com.au/


I would really hope to see an audio-only version of this book, I've been approached by fans from the blind community already about the feasibility of getting similar projects funded, such as an audio-only game.
A: I'm not aware of any plans for an audio book version of Icarus Effect at this stage, but it is being released in eBook format on the Kindle, which has a text-to-speech function.


____

* end of moderator edit *



http://www.stuffwelike.com/stuffwelike/2010/07/12/deus-ex-novel-announced-titled-icarus-effect/

Excuse me while I enrol myself in the nearest mental institution.


__

jkruse
12th Jul 2010, 17:43
I guess that might be cool, maybe.

Probably not.

K^2
12th Jul 2010, 17:44
I'd be surprised if they weren't trying to get some book sales out of this one.

Pinky_Powers
12th Jul 2010, 17:49
Whether or not the novel will be any good (which I somehow doubt in my snobbery), this can only be a good sign for the depth and writing that's going into the game.

Ilves
12th Jul 2010, 17:57
Initiating next phase of operation Money Cow...


And from the shadows, dark and secret powers are coming together to take control, intent on designs so large, so intricate, they will take decades to come to fruition.

This I really like though. I'd even agree more with Pinky's above statement had the novel been written by DeMerle herself. Or conversely, this James Swallow dude would be somehow involved in HR's backbench writing.

Kodaemon
12th Jul 2010, 18:02
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/James_Swallow

Dude's clearly a graphomaniac, churning out books at this rate.

Bloodwolf806
12th Jul 2010, 18:04
I like how it's a new story and not a novelization of one of the games. Will buy DAY 1!

Sabretooth1
12th Jul 2010, 18:07
James Swallow's writing credits state that he's working on Deus Ex: Human Revolution, so he's one of the members of the writing team, definitely, which is a good sign. At least the world should be 1:1 with the game then.

Ilves
12th Jul 2010, 18:09
^ Can't believe I missed that. :thumb:

AaronJ
12th Jul 2010, 19:00
I hope this has more to do with Deus Ex than HR.

That's not a snarky comment. When I read the press release and read "set within the Deus Ex universe" so many times, I wasn't thinking of HR. Surely it's not, seeing HR is a reboot? I don't know.

PenguinsFriend
12th Jul 2010, 19:08
This is how it should have read:

"And from the shadows, dark and secret powers are coming together to take control, intent on designs so large, so intricate, they will take decades to come to fruition. And one man, with no arms, will rise from obscurity to challenge their megalomaniac and diabolical plans. A real fly in the ointment, protagonist and anti-hero, Adam Jensen Rhymes-with-Denton, will be the new model of human development setting the scene for global anarchy and angst ridden protests the like of which has never been seen before!”

This is fun – why not write you own version of how the story should have been laid out in here for all our amusement. :D

Mindmute
12th Jul 2010, 20:07
Heh, I'll have my hands on it for sure.
It also made me a bit more hopeful towards the depth of the game's backstory. Curse you! :p

Shinrei
12th Jul 2010, 20:46
That's happening when you are a day off the i-net... :D

I think I gonna buy it, but let us all hope for a great backstory... in the book AND in the game. :P

II J0SePh X II
12th Jul 2010, 20:48
According to kotaku, the story bleeds into that of HR

http://kotaku.com/5585023/deus-ex-human-revolution-curls-up-with-a-good-book

WildcatPhoenix
12th Jul 2010, 21:12
I greet this with a resounding "meh."

However, if it results in an expanded universe for Deus Ex, I'm all for it. I'm thinking something along the line of early Timothy Zahn era Star Wars EU (and yes, I'm sure this will trigger an avalanche of Zahn-haters). I'd love to see the Deus Ex mythology fleshed out, and a novel is probably a better medium to capture the ideas and depth of Deus than a film or mini-series.

Dead-Eye
12th Jul 2010, 21:21
What! I'm not big into books... damn you EM, forcing me to read.

Keir
12th Jul 2010, 21:30
Here's the official press release in its entirety.




DEL REY BOOKS ANNOUNCES NOVEL BASED ON THE DEUS EX® VIDEO GAME SERIES

NEW YORK, NY – July 13, 2010 – Del Rey, an imprint of Ballantine Books at the Random House Publishing Group, announced today that Del Rey Books will publish a novel based on the Deus Ex® video game series. DEUS EX: THE ICARUS EFFECT will be written by author James Swallow and will release in 2011.

DEUS EX: THE ICARUS EFFECT is set in the complex and enthralling world of Deus Ex, a cyberpunk-style technological dystopia where all is not what it seems. In the not-so-distant future, the world is a place of great innovation and technological advancement... but also a place of chaos and conspiracy. New technologies push the limits of human potential, even while they threaten the very future of the world. And from the shadows, dark and secret powers are coming together to take control, intent on designs so large, so intricate, they will take decades to come to fruition. But when two unlikely heroes—Anna Kelso, a Secret Service agent, and Ben Saxon, a special-ops soldier—draw uncomfortably close to the truth, the choices they make here and now will alter the course of history... or usher in an age of darkness.

“We’re really pleased to be able to announce this new DEUS EX novel with Del Rey books,” said Andre Vu, Marketing Game Manager, Deus Ex. “The novel is set in the DEUS EX universe and there will be characters and story elements in it, that will overlap with our next videogame DEUS EX: HUMAN REVOLUTION, which we hope fans will be very excited about.”

DEUS EX: HUMAN REVOLUTION the game has recently been unveiled at E3 2010 in Los Angeles, where the game received over 25 award nominations from gaming media from around the world, securing 13 awards at the show.

DEUS EX: THE ICARUS EFFECT will release in North America and Europe in 2011, the book will also be available in many other countries around the world please keep an eye on the Official Deus Ex: Human Revolution website for further details.

ABOUT THE AUTHOR:
JAMES SWALLOW is a renowned science fiction author whose first foray into writing came with the Sundowners Series, published in 2001. Since then, Swallow has gone on to pen both novels and scripts for popular franchises such as Doctor Who, Stargate, Warhammer 40,000, and Star Trek. He has also worked on numerous videogames including Star Trek Invasion, Maelstrom, and Killzone 2. In 2009 the International Association of Media Tie-in Writers awarded James with the Scribe Award for Best Speculative Fiction Original. He lives and works in the UK.

ABOUT DEL REY:
Del Rey Books (http://www.delreybooks.com) was founded in 1977 as an imprint of Ballantine Books, a division of the Random House Publishing Group, under the guidance of the renowned Judy-Lynn del Rey and her husband, Lester del Rey. Del Rey publishes the best of modern fantasy, science fiction, and alternate history. In 2004 it expanded by launching Del Rey Manga, which has grown to be a major force in the U.S. graphic-novel field.

About Square Enix Ltd.
Square Enix Ltd., a part of Square Enix Europe business unit, is a London-based wholly-owned subsidiary of Square Enix Holdings Co., Ltd., one of the most influential providers of digital entertainment content in the world. Square Enix Ltd. publishes and distributes entertainment content from the Square Enix Group including Square Enix, Eidos and Taito in Europe and other PAL territories. Square Enix Ltd. also has a global network of leading development studios such as IO Interactive, Crystal Dynamics and Eidos Montréal. The Square Enix Group boasts a valuable portfolio of intellectual property including: FINAL FANTASY, which has sold over 97 million units worldwide, DRAGON QUEST® which has sold over 54 million units worldwide and TOMB RAIDER® which has sold over 35 million units worldwide, together with other well established products.

More information on Square Enix Ltd. can be found on the Internet at http://www.square-enix.com

Fluffis
12th Jul 2010, 21:43
“The novel is set in the DEUS EX universe and there will be characters and story elements in it, that will overlap with our next videogame DEUS EX: HUMAN REVOLUTION, which we hope fans will be very excited about.”


Is that a fancy way of saying: "If you want the whole story, you need to buy the book as well"?

Keir
12th Jul 2010, 22:28
Is that a fancy way of saying: "If you want the whole story, you need to buy the book as well"?

No, it's not :thumbsup:

You won't have to read the book to know what's going on in the game - but if you do it'll give you a deeper understanding of the world. I'll see if I can get some more info about the book nearer the time. I'll certainly blag some free copies to give away here too.

Spyhopping
12th Jul 2010, 22:53
Well how about that!

I'll let my cynical side get first say for a change. It does sound a bit like a squeeze for every last drop of the franchise, so not hugely optimistic. Every video game spin off book that I've ever read has been a let down, and not even worth making my casual no brainer shelf.

On the other hand, I've craved a full length novel exploring the DX setting from day one. I never thought it would happen, just as I thought the IP was dead after IW, so it's more than I ever expected. I'll definitely give it a read

Edit: Somewhere down the line I expect a little comment about milking this Icarus myth for all its worth. But I'll leave that to someone else to have fun with.

I am quite excited about this though, really. Despite my bit of negativity.

Angel-A
12th Jul 2010, 23:03
Deus Ex? IN MY BOOKS?!

Oh God, want.

Jerion
12th Jul 2010, 23:03
Well how about that!

I'll let my cynical side get first say for a change. It does sound a bit like a squeeze for every last drop of the franchise, so not hugely optimistic. Every video game spin off book that I've ever read has been a let down, and not even worth making my casual no brainer shelf.

I don't know about that, some of the StarCraft novels were very good.

WildcatPhoenix
12th Jul 2010, 23:14
Edit: Somewhere down the line I expect a little comment about milking this Icarus myth for all its worth. But I'll leave that to someone else to have fun with.


Challenge accepted, good sir. ;)

From the second teaser trailer to the interviews with Belletete to the name of the "claymore" aug, they really are getting a little too much mileage out of that particular myth. I understand that it ties into the theme of transhumanism. I get that it's a reference to the first game, although a little of the original's subtlety would go a long way to improving my opinion of DX:HR.

I guess that's what bothers me the most. How "in your face," "this is the message-get it???-transhumanism!!" this whole thing seems to be. Now we get a novel by the same name.

Pretty soon we'll change the game title to something awful like "Deus Ex: Icarus Rising." Ugh.

Spyhopping
12th Jul 2010, 23:15
I don't know about that, some of the StarCraft novels were very good.

Yeah? That's pretty encouraging to hear. I'm thinking on this from my personal experience- and as you know there are gaping holes in my video game knowledge!

I'm sure there are a few good adaptations out there. Hopefully this will change my experiences of game novels and be one of them.

AaronJ
12th Jul 2010, 23:27
Somewhere down the line I expect a little comment about milking this Icarus myth for all its worth. But I'll leave that to someone else to have fun with.

Although I noticed it at first, I could have guessed they'd use something like that.

Semi-excited at the off chance that this will be set in the Deus Ex universe

pringlepower
12th Jul 2010, 23:49
Although I noticed it at first, I could have guessed they'd use something like that.

Semi-excited at the off chance that this will be set in the Deus Ex universe

Well it's called Deus Ex: Icarus Effect. Chances are it won't be set in the Tom Sawyer universe.

Anyways, in my opinion another good video game book series is (don't kill me) the Halo books. I always liked the universe they built up more than the gameplay anyways.

Spyhopping
13th Jul 2010, 00:10
I gave them a try too. I thought the first and third (possibly the fourth, can't really remember it) Halo novels were just ok, they kept me occupied during boring journeys. I can't really remember the plots, and having been quite bland I have no desire to reread any of them, so a bit of a let down.

The splinter cell books were quite bad, but yet again I've forgotten the plots, and I don't think I finished them. I just remember really cringing at some of the ham fisted narrative in one of them.

Pretentious Old Man.
13th Jul 2010, 00:15
Don't kill me, but Halo's novels were actually bloody good (and this is from the mouth of the world's biggest literary snob). I don't exactly have high hopes of this, but at least it proves that the story side of things is being taken seriously.

Imagine a novelisation of Modern Warfare 2's story. Argh!

Spyhopping
13th Jul 2010, 00:41
Don't kill me, but Halo's novels were actually bloody good (and this is from the mouth of the world's biggest literary snob). I don't exactly have high hopes of this, but at least it proves that the story side of things is being taken seriously.

Imagine a novelisation of Modern Warfare 2's story. Argh!

Perhaps I'm being unfair, and I should try them again in a different frame of mind- but I honestly was completely uninspired by the Halo books. Sometimes it's just all down to taste. I love science, spaceships and explosions, but my favourite novels have always been ones that cleverly tugged at my emotions, and made me explore my own ways of seeing the world.

super...
13th Jul 2010, 00:45
you frisking haters! your all fronting like you're too cool for school.

you know what i read a week or two ago? the god damn text file from the original deus ex. it was awesome! i now have sooo many excuses for leaving passwords just laying around.

so their putting out a book about deus ex that i get to reed? A book that has been guaranteed to fit in with the story of the upcoming deus ex game? super sweet! Possibly even laying the ground work for the gray death or MJ12 events in the original deus ex game? SO TOTALLY SWEET!

i wish i had a book like this for panzer dragoon. or any number of great games that have not gotten the treatment they deserved.

also i love how some of you feel the need to apologize for enjoying something. it's almost as if this forum had a negative bent. almost as if some of you are just using negativity as a proxy for actually having a personality.

Deus_Ex_Machina
13th Jul 2010, 00:50
I'm very surprised by the announcement of a Deus Ex book. I'll definitely be picking Deus Ex: Icarus Effect up.

I disagree with the notion that a Deus Ex novelization is simply a cash in attempt. Why? Because the mainstream gamer crowd hates to read. (Criticize me all you want for saying it, but you know it's true).

Pretentious Old Man.
13th Jul 2010, 01:02
Perhaps I'm being unfair, and I should try them again in a different frame of mind- but I honestly was completely uninspired by the Halo books. Sometimes it's just all down to taste. I love science, spaceships and explosions, but my favourite novels have always been ones that cleverly tugged at my emotions, and made me explore my own ways of seeing the world.

Halo's books are more about exploring the situation of humanity's struggle with the covenant, and fleshing it out into a much more plausible universe than the games. I like the books because the central plot pillar seems to be whether or not the SPARTAN programme was morally justified or not. Unlike most game books, the answer ("DAMN THEM FOR BEING SO EVIL COS THEY SUXXORZ) isn't rammed down your throat, you're allowed to make your own decisions.

"The Fall of Reach" and "Ghosts of Onyx" are probably the two best. The others are somewhat lacklustre.

AaronJ
13th Jul 2010, 01:51
Well it's called Deus Ex: Icarus Effect. Chances are it won't be set in the Tom Sawyer universe.

Anyways, in my opinion another good video game book series is (don't kill me) the Halo books. I always liked the universe they built up more than the gameplay anyways.

I'll ignore your funny comment to say that I too enjoyed the Halo books. I read them before I ever played the game(s).

ArcR
13th Jul 2010, 02:10
I'd like to think that there was such a rich backdrop developed by the writers of this game that writing a novel became a no-brainer. After all game based novels work off of popular and established franchises. DX isn't one of those titles.. yet. So for them to be doing this speaks volumes of their confidence.

Jerion
13th Jul 2010, 02:35
On the topic of this novel: It could be quite good as DX:HR seems to have a very rich world built around it, both with the new stuff and pre-existing. I always thought it would be an interesting universe for novels.

@ Spyhopping: Next time you're at a bookstore, pick up the Dark Templar trilogy of the StarCraft books. Alternatively pick up Liberty's Crusade. The DT books are standalone, set between the Broodwar Expansion and SC2: Wings of Liberty. They follow an archeologist's rather unorthodox encounter with the Protoss. Liberty's Crusade follows the Terran Campaign of the first game and (I think) a little of the Zerg campaign, from the perspective of a renegade reporter.

Rindill the Red
13th Jul 2010, 03:04
Okay, I know that the book will tie in with the game...

but the game world is supposed to be wrapped around the player's choices right?

So obviously, it can't tie in too much, could you imagine how that would be?

(End of First Chapter)
-------------------------------------------------
blahblahblahblahblahblahblahblahblahblahblahblahblahblahblahblahblahblahblahblahblahblahblahblahblahblahblahblahblahblahblahblahblahblahblahblahblahblahblahblahblahblahblahblahblahblahblahblahblahblahblahblahblahblahblahblahblahblahblahblahblahblahblahblahblahblahblahblahblahblahblahblahblahblahblahblahblahblahblahblahblahblahblahblahblahblahblahblahblahblahblah


If you killed scared scientist chick in game... turn to page 12
If you saved scared scientist chick in game... turn to page 32
If you became romantically involved with chick... turn to page 45

-----------------------------------------------------

Also, another problem with big media tie-in novels is that the writers don't have enough time to write the book at their own pace and make it really extraordinarily good. They're rushed to meet the tie-in deadline. Almost every tie-in book I've read has always mentioned this in the pre-face... although that might just be their way of trying to find a scape goat for bad writing...

And man, this swallow guy is prolific... not sure if that's a good or bad thing for the Icarus Effect and DX:HR. All I know is I've been waiting forever for the next Song of Ice and Fire book from GRRM.

super...
13th Jul 2010, 03:35
DX hr looks to be a big world, given the book does not even follow the game's main character whatever you chose to do in the game should not really effect much in the book.

did any of you guys catch the hidden story in deus ex one about the nsf agent in NY? it was in all the data pads around the first few missions. made me want to know more about that guy's story. a book based around why someone joins with the nsf, that would be a good read.

Rindill the Red
13th Jul 2010, 03:38
You know what I've always wanted to see...
Is a novelization or screen adaptation of the world of Half Life 2.

It's really quite a rich/interesting world; I started writing some fan fiction for it.

I could see the Half Life 2 movie being something in the vein of Andrei Tarkovsky. In fact, if he had done a Half Life 2 movie in his prime that would have been the greatest movie ever.

singularity
13th Jul 2010, 05:11
Okay, I know that the book will tie in with the game...

but the game world is supposed to be wrapped around the player's choices right?

So obviously, it can't tie in too much, could you imagine how that would be?

(End of First Chapter)
-------------------------------------------------
blahblahblahblahblahblahblahblahblahblahblahblahblahblahblahblahblahblahblahblahblahblahblahblahblahblahblahblahblahblahblahblahblahblahblahblahblahblahblahblahblahblahblahblahblahblahblahblahblahblahblahblahblahblahblahblahblahblahblahblahblahblahblahblahblahblahblahblahblahblahblahblahblahblahblahblahblahblahblahblahblahblahblahblahblahblahblahblahblahblahblah


If you killed scared scientist chick in game... turn to page 12
If you saved scared scientist chick in game... turn to page 32
If you became romantically involved with chick... turn to page 45

-----------------------------------------------------

Also, another problem with big media tie-in novels is that the writers don't have enough time to write the book at their own pace and make it really extraordinarily good. They're rushed to meet the tie-in deadline. Almost every tie-in book I've read has always mentioned this in the pre-face... although that might just be their way of trying to find a scape goat for bad writing...

And man, this swallow guy is prolific... not sure if that's a good or bad thing for the Icarus Effect and DX:HR. All I know is I've been waiting forever for the next Song of Ice and Fire book from GRRM.

Did you even read the link?
The book isn't about Jenson. It's about a secret service agent and a spec ops soldier, set in the same universe (and presumably, the same time frame) as the DXHR game.

On Topic:
I'm not too excited about this. Most video-game tie in books are almost as bad as video game movies. Halo: Fall of Reach wasn't bad -- mostly because it actually helped breathe a little life into the Halo world. I've only read one of the Starcraft books. Wasn't exactly award winning literature, but it was definitely entertaining. I'll look into some others.
I might pick it up if I see it on sale at the super market, but other than that, I'm not getting my hopes up -- especially having read a fair bit of Cyber Punk in my time -- most video game novels take a "kid's glove" approach, and in a genre that regularly explores topics like drug addiction, prostitution and murder, all centering around a morally decaying world, it's far too easy to turn it into a "laser guns and cool robots!" novel.

FrankCSIS
13th Jul 2010, 05:28
Current mood: Intrigued.

We'll see where this one goes...

Romeo
13th Jul 2010, 06:23
That's pretty damn awesome. Almost every video game book I've ever read has been simple, but I'll still get this, it's always nice to get some more information about the universe.

Kodaemon
13th Jul 2010, 06:51
Would be more fun if they had someone write a full Jacob book.

Irate_Iguana
13th Jul 2010, 07:44
Would be more fun if they had someone write a full Jacob book.

This. I spent ages trying to find that book before I found out that it doesn't exist.

Exian
13th Jul 2010, 09:35
I'd love something like this.

JMSwallow
13th Jul 2010, 10:37
*decloaking*


Or conversely, this James Swallow dude would be somehow involved in HR's backbench writing.

As Sabertooth mentioned, I've been a major part of the writing team on Deus Ex: Human Revolution since 2008; so yeah, I'm pretty involved.


You won't have to read the book to know what's going on in the game - but if you do it'll give you a deeper understanding of the world.

The Icarus Effect storyline dovetails into some of the plot elements in Human Revolution; but like Keir says, both narratives stand on their own.


I'll see if I can get some more info about the book nearer the time.

Or you could just, y'know, ask me. Although, admittedly right now there's not a lot I can give away...

Spyhopping
13th Jul 2010, 11:01
Would be more fun if they had someone write a full Jacob book.

I was very fond of the style of those little excerpts. Here's a bit of info on it from the author for those that haven't seen it before. 7 Crows (http://www.7crows.com/archives/2000/01/entry_39.html)



@ Spyhopping: Next time you're at a bookstore, pick up the Dark Templar trilogy of the StarCraft books. Alternatively pick up Liberty's Crusade. The DT books are standalone, set between the Broodwar Expansion and SC2: Wings of Liberty. They follow an archeologist's rather unorthodox encounter with the Protoss. Liberty's Crusade follows the Terran Campaign of the first game and (I think) a little of the Zerg campaign, from the perspective of a renegade reporter.

Right, I will check it out, if it's not at a store I'll look for it online. Thanks for the recommendation.


*decloaking*


Hey! Thanks for dropping by. I bet I'll have a few questions for you once I have the time to get my thoughts together. :)

Pretentious Old Man.
13th Jul 2010, 11:29
*decloaking*



As Sabertooth mentioned, I've been a major part of the writing team on Deus Ex: Human Revolution since 2008; so yeah, I'm pretty involved.



The Icarus Effect storyline dovetails into some of the plot elements in Human Revolution; but like Keir says, both narratives stand on their own.



Or you could just, y'know, ask me. Although, admittedly right now there's not a lot I can give away...

Hello, master.

Nice to see you here, sir. It indicates a modicum of Eidos interest in what the community wants, so thanks.

Are we allowed to ask questions about the plot of the game, or just the book? I'm sure the book will be good, but I daresay that the actual game's story might be of more import to most of us! :)

First and foremost, have you played (by which I mean, completed) the original Deus Ex?

Sabretooth1
13th Jul 2010, 11:52
Or you could just, y'know, ask me. Although, admittedly right now there's not a lot I can give away...

How hard is it to write a book about conspiracies, symbolism and secret societies while trying not to come across as a Dan Brown knock-off? :rasp:

Ashpolt
13th Jul 2010, 11:53
HI JMSwallow, welcome to the forums and thanks for taking the time to talk to us! I don't really have any questions to ask about the novel (as I don't generally read game novels tbh) but I definitely appreciate you coming on here to discuss things with us. If you're willing (and able!) to talk about the game to some degree, I'd be more than happy to shoot a couple of questions across about that...

super...
13th Jul 2010, 15:48
*decloaking*

Or you could just, y'know, ask me. Although, admittedly right now there's not a lot I can give away...

Dude! thanks for dropping by! so questions...

1. What do you like about the original deus ex story or setting?


2. To test your ability as a deus ex writer quickly come up with a plausible excuse for some jack ass to leave a valuable password laying around in a data pad that anyone can find.


3. please hide a password in the book that opens a door in the game, this is not a question simply a demand.


4. while playing the game can you read bits of the books laying around in the environment?


5. as a writer what do you feel you have contributed to DX HR

Ilves
13th Jul 2010, 16:50
*decloaking*

As Sabertooth mentioned, I've been a major part of the writing team on Deus Ex: Human Revolution since 2008; so yeah, I'm pretty involved.


Should have read your bio more carefully. Props! :D

Pinky_Powers
13th Jul 2010, 17:07
*decloaking*



As Sabertooth mentioned, I've been a major part of the writing team on Deus Ex: Human Revolution since 2008; so yeah, I'm pretty involved.



The Icarus Effect storyline dovetails into some of the plot elements in Human Revolution; but like Keir says, both narratives stand on their own.



Or you could just, y'know, ask me. Although, admittedly right now there's not a lot I can give away...

No doubt you'll soon wish your Cloak never came off. But what's done is done.

So here's my question: what are your personal goals with this book? Don't bother with press-statements and swell-sounding quotables. You've written quite a lot in your career. Is there anything you wish to accomplish with this book on a personal level?

SethSteiner
13th Jul 2010, 17:27
I don't know about that, some of the StarCraft novels were very good.

Some were good, some were bad. The Dark Templer trilogy was really great, it had a good mix of everything in it. Nova on the other hand was very bad at my opinion. Heavy stereotypes but on the top many, many pages just forced a dark feeling. Like the Starcraft "Manga", it lost itself in the mood and ended in a bad story.

Like everywhere else too, I am carefully but looking forward to this book. It`s nice to see more of the universe, to bring light in some dark corners but a story about a Special Ops Guy and a Secret Service Chick sounds.. bad. Come on, the world doesn`t comprise of americans or people of the government and military. Why not have a german call center girl and a truck driver from hungary? As a foreigner, it annoys me that most storys feature a person with english/american background. Where has all the creativity gone?

Shralla
13th Jul 2010, 20:32
Man I hate British murder mysteries and the way none of them are set anywhere except England.

Is this what I'm reading from you right now? REALLY? You want stories set in other countries? Tell Germany to get off its ass and start making art that isn't metal music. We aren't responsible for representing everybody else in our artistic ventures. That's YOUR job.

Keir
13th Jul 2010, 20:59
*decloaking*


Cool :)

SethSteiner
13th Jul 2010, 21:17
Man I hate British murder mysteries and the way none of them are set anywhere except England.

Is this what I'm reading from you right now? REALLY? You want stories set in other countries? Tell Germany to get off its ass and start making art that isn't metal music. We aren't responsible for representing everybody else in our artistic ventures. That's YOUR job.

Don`t you think, you act a little bit strange with this generalizing and this "we"? Citizens of a country are still individuals and not synchronizeed. This thread isn`t about this or that country and it`s music, it`s about a book related to a video game and I criticize not more than a clichè. This book will get sold around the globe, so why shouldn`t I as a potential consumer, tell my opinion about what we know at the moment? This is my job as consumer, to give feedback and I don`t care if you have a problem that I am annoyed of american heroes, agents and soldiers. If you want to experience the same stories and characters, that`s fine with me but accept that not everyone is like you.

IOOI
13th Jul 2010, 21:40
It`s nice to see more of the universe, to bring light in some dark corners but a story about a Special Ops Guy and a Secret Service Chick sounds.. bad. Come on, the world doesn`t comprise of americans or people of the government and military.

So the ultimate pun here would be: "Nothing novel here."

*bites lip*























:D

Shadowdagger
13th Jul 2010, 22:14
Hmm... everything is fine and well but I think that a novelization of DX:HR goes too far. It feels rather "pushed" (or more like "milking the cashcow to death"). The DX:HR world is very interesting but like most "novels based on games" I fear it will be written in a very banal and simplistic way. And to be honest - the dialogue so far didn't knock my socks off.
I remain very sceptic.

But I love DX:HR nonetheless :p










PS: I hate Dan Browns books :p

bryt
13th Jul 2010, 23:16
'Curse your sudden but inevitable betrayal!'

Angel-A
13th Jul 2010, 23:16
So the ultimate pun here would be: "Nothing novel here."

*bites lip*























:D


... *Slaps IOOI*

Pretentious Old Man.
13th Jul 2010, 23:19
So the ultimate pun here would be: "Nothing novel here."

*bites lip*























:D

Input, Output, Output, Input.
Input, Output, Output, Input.
Input, Output, Output, Input.
Input, Output, Output, Input.
Input, Output, Output, Input.
Input, Output, Output, Input.
Input, Output, Output, Input.
Input, Output, Output, Input.

AAARRRGGHHHH!

Sabretooth1
14th Jul 2010, 02:16
... *Slaps IOOI*

Looks like our suspect just got... booked.

http://www.babble.com/CS/blogs/famecrawler/2007/11/08-15/horatio460.jpg

FrankCSIS
14th Jul 2010, 03:03
I'm not in the habit of asking questions.

How about you start talking and we see where it leads?

Someone occupy him while I get his notes.

Pinky_Powers
14th Jul 2010, 03:25
Someone occupy him while I get his notes.

Consider him occupied.

*takes pants off*

Shralla
14th Jul 2010, 03:28
Don`t you think, you act a little bit strange with this generalizing and this "we"? Citizens of a country are still individuals and not synchronizeed. This thread isn`t about this or that country and it`s music, it`s about a book related to a video game and I criticize not more than a clichè. This book will get sold around the globe, so why shouldn`t I as a potential consumer, tell my opinion about what we know at the moment? This is my job as consumer, to give feedback and I don`t care if you have a problem that I am annoyed of american heroes, agents and soldiers. If you want to experience the same stories and characters, that`s fine with me but accept that not everyone is like you.

I missed the part where "set in the US" means that every story set here is exactly the same. In fact, I vaguely recall hearing somewhere that the US is one of the LARGEST, and subsequently one of the MOST DIVERSE nations in the entire world. Look at the history of writing everywhere. People write about where they're from. British writers write about England, American writers write about America, Japanese writers write about Japan. This is not some strange development that's suddenly appeared from nowhere. It's a fact of art.

FrankCSIS
14th Jul 2010, 03:44
I write about the Moon, but you cannot tell anyone. The world's not ready yet for such revelations.

TheYouthCounselor
14th Jul 2010, 07:52
*decloaking*



As Sabertooth mentioned, I've been a major part of the writing team on Deus Ex: Human Revolution since 2008; so yeah, I'm pretty involved.



The Icarus Effect storyline dovetails into some of the plot elements in Human Revolution; but like Keir says, both narratives stand on their own.



Or you could just, y'know, ask me. Although, admittedly right now there's not a lot I can give away...

*Spills drink*

Whoa! You may be the first team member to actually respond directly to the community, let alone post here. Thanks for dropping by.

I have a question. Correction...two.

1. The original Deus Ex was heavily influenced by the events and trends of the day. The Oklahoma City bombing was still fresh on people's minds and there were countless works on government conspiracies surrounding extra-terrestrials. Today we live in the aftermath of 9/11 and a stroll through the best sellers and new releases aisles of any book store bombards the reader with novels dealing with Vatican and Templar conspiracies. With terrorism and the Templars already playing big roles in the series (before Dan Brown and the September 11th attacks) are you tempted to incorporate them?
2. Do you prefer Orange or Lemon-Lime?

Thanks again! Remember to check for bombs attached to the helicopter on the way out.

Lady_Of_The_Vine
14th Jul 2010, 08:17
You won't have to read the book to know what's going on in the game - but if you do it'll give you a deeper understanding of the world. I'll see if I can get some more info about the book nearer the time. I'll certainly blag some free copies to give away here too.

Thanks Keir, looking forward to more info.

Free copies?!? :eek:
I want one of those... :D

JMSwallow
14th Jul 2010, 09:18
Pretentious Old Man asked:

Are we allowed to ask questions about the plot of the game, or just the book?
You can ask about either, and I’ll answer if can, NDAs permitting. I'm not going to give away major plot points, though.


First and foremost, have you played (by which I mean, completed) the original Deus Ex?
Okay, let’s get this out of the way first; I’ll establish my bona fides.
Yes, I am very much a fan of Deus Ex, so when I got offered a chance to work on the third DX game, I took it like a shot. And yes, like pretty much everyone else who is on the design team for DX:HR, I’ve completed the original game a bunch of times. I got the "Game of the Year" edition of Deus Ex back in 2001 (while on holiday in Hong Kong, of all places), and played it to death. I also went through Invisible War on the old black brick Xbox, and the PC version of Project Snowblind.

Sabretooth asked:

How hard is it to write a book about conspiracies, symbolism and secret societies while trying not to come across as a Dan Brown knock-off?
Dan who?

super... asked:

1. What do you like about the original deus ex story or setting?
Many things. It's a compelling cyberpunk future with great depth and interesting mythic/conspiracy underpinnings, a very dynamic landscape for action thriller stories. Fertile ground for any writer.


2. To test your ability as a deus ex writer quickly come up with a plausible excuse for some jack ass to leave a valuable password laying around in a data pad that anyone can find.
You want me to do a writing test, you can pay my standard day rate like everyone else...


3. please hide a password in the book that opens a door in the game, this is not a question simply a demand.
Demand all you like, but that kind of thing falls under level design, not writing.


4. while playing the game can you read bits of the books laying around in the environment?
Yes. A fair number of them are written by me.


5. as a writer what do you feel you have contributed to DX HR
Short answer? Lots and lots of words.

Long answer? Scriptwriting, world building, character creation, background and environmental detail, plotting elements, narrative, weapon and augmentation development...

Pinky Powers asked:

So here's my question: what are your personal goals with this book? Don't bother with press-statements and swell-sounding quotables. You've written quite a lot in your career. Is there anything you wish to accomplish with this book on a personal level?

I hope to usher in a new age of enlightenment and communion between the mammal and the machine. This text will be the roadmap that leads our species to a glorious transhuman future. Or something.

Was that too swell? I can never be sure...

Seriously, I don't have any grand scheme for this novel. I’m not that pretentious. I'm not purporting to create some monumental work of literature. I simply want to tell an engaging, thrilling story in a setting that I enjoy, and perhaps explore some of the aspects of that fictional world in a new medium.

Shadowdagger opines:

Hmm... everything is fine and well but I think that a novelization of DX:HR goes too far.
I'm not writing a novelization; a novelization would be an adaptation of the story of the game into a book. I'm writing a novel set in the world of the game. It's an original, standalone story that connects to the events of DX:HR.

The Youth Counselor asked:

1. With terrorism and the Templars already playing big roles in the series (before Dan Brown and the September 11th attacks) are you tempted to incorporate them?
In the novel? No.


2. Do you prefer Orange or Lemon-Lime?
I vant oh-range.

Kodaemon
14th Jul 2010, 09:30
I vant oh-range.

Test passed :thumb:

Sabretooth1
14th Jul 2010, 09:49
That bit about readable books is great news, but what I think really matters is whether the augmentations and weapons will have detailed technical info like in the original game, where you had what, 3 paragraphs dedicated to each aug and weapon (even ammo type). This was why I didn't like BioShcck: it made no attempt, writing-wise, to feel plausible: you just had superpowers given to you by a sea slug. How does that work biologically, how can you have a flaming hand or a hand that shoots electricity? Unanswered.

So long question short, will we have long technical descriptions for augmentations, items and weapons like in the original game?

ThePrecursor
14th Jul 2010, 10:29
Nice to see someone that has been working on the game actually dropping by and answering some questions.

I came up with a few questions:

1. Can you please give an example of the content of one of those books laying around in DX:HR? Even just a subject of a book would be nice to know, so I know what to expect.
2. Adam doesn't really look that caucasian, he looks like he must've got Asian or perhaps Greek or Spanish ancestry or something (kind of hard to verify). Is this something you guys intended? If so, can you perhaps tell me where Adams roots originate from?
3. Adam has an apartment in Detroit, right? Is this his only residence in the game?
4. From two screenshots of Detroit, there's an advertisement for "Il Metamorphosi", what seems to be an opera. Is there any information you can spill on this? Will Adam be able to visit it?
5. This is a question which you probably can't answer, but I'll ask anyway. We know Sarif Industries is a very important cybernetics manufacturer, but I recall reading or hearing somewhere that there was another very important cybernetics company. So.....can you give us the name of the company? :D
6. Is there a form of public transportation Adam can use in the cities he visits? Like that monorail from a Detroit screenshot? :whistle:

Also, I'd like to know the answer to Sabretooth's question above this post.

Sabretooth1
14th Jul 2010, 10:40
While we're discussing the world, think you can spill one of the two cities that we don't know about yet? Or at least get a confirmation on Philadelphia?

SethSteiner
14th Jul 2010, 11:22
I missed the part where "set in the US" means that every story set here is exactly the same. In fact, I vaguely recall hearing somewhere that the US is one of the LARGEST, and subsequently one of the MOST DIVERSE nations in the entire world. Look at the history of writing everywhere. People write about where they're from. British writers write about England, American writers write about America, Japanese writers write about Japan. This is not some strange development that's suddenly appeared from nowhere. It's a fact of art.

Do you know Karl May? He was a german author and wrote about the wild west with his main protagonist an indian called Winnetou and his best friend Old Shatterhand. He was never in the orient or in america but he wrote about it. Jule Verne was a french and he also didn`t wrote about France. You want to tell me, it`s a law that you have to write about your own country?

The USA consists out of 300 million people but I don`t think that most of them are in the military or some other super special unit and compared to the rest of the world, it`s also just another country. You know, Europe has 450 million citizens. Sorry I am tired of these clichès of americans who discover a big conspiracy and fight everything, even Dan Brown had non-american as a second lead character. It`s not very creative to build a story with Special Ops and Secret Service and the U.S..

Corpus
14th Jul 2010, 11:45
Book might reference some of Adam's past, where he used to work etc.
One of them saying "Remember that Jensen guy? He used to work here" after they break into x facility/building, for conspiracy purposes of course.

JaqTaar
14th Jul 2010, 12:55
It`s not very creative to build a story with Special Ops and Secret Service and the U.S..
Exactly how much would we have left if we took Special Ops, Secret Services and the US out of the Deus Ex setting? ;)

Seriously, as long as we don't know more about the story of both game and novel, how can you or anyone tell how creative or uncreative it is?

AaronJ
14th Jul 2010, 13:04
Exactly how much would we have left if we took Special Ops, Secret Services and the US out of the Deus Ex setting? ;)

Seriously, as long as we don't know more about the story of both game and novel, how can you or anyone tell how creative or uncreative it is?

Someone could ascertain that by looking at the summary and wondering if that information was the best to put forward initially.

SethSteiner
14th Jul 2010, 13:12
Of course a Deus Ex needs the Government, the sub-organisations and major corporations but that is not what I cricized. I critized the background of the protagonists and not the setting. Of course the rest of the story could be creative and good, I myself look forward to the book but to read a description like that let me rolling with the eyes. Why shouldn`t normal people get involved into a conspiracy? If I remember the biggest conspiracies, we have nurses, morticians, communists, the mafia, actors, welders, scientists and many more.

super...
14th Jul 2010, 15:20
thanks JM! great to know about the books! maybe someday i will read the text file for DX HR

Pinky_Powers
14th Jul 2010, 16:01
Seriously, I don't have any grand scheme for this novel. I’m not that pretentious. I'm not purporting to create some monumental work of literature. I simply want to tell an engaging, thrilling story in a setting that I enjoy, and perhaps explore some of the aspects of that fictional world in a new medium.

Well, despite your best efforts, that was actually a solid answer to my question. ;)

Mindmute
14th Jul 2010, 16:45
Well, despite your best efforts, that was actually a solid answer to my question. ;)

I think that, albeit witty, it was supposed to be one.



@ JMSwallow:
Just one question, for now:

Can you tell us the ratio (rough estimate) that was spent working on the backstory of the world and lead characters when compared to the main storyarc of DX:HR.

Thanks, by the way, for the attention and for taking the time to actually answer our questions!

FrankCSIS
14th Jul 2010, 17:41
I'm curious about one thing in the HR universe. I seem to remember reading augmentation industry was the saviour of Detroit, in the sense that automobile manufactures and workers were recycled into aug builders. Sounds like a good idea, but practicality demands a very high production level for such installations to be comercially viable, let alone sustain an entire industry, and bring the city of Detroit back on its feet. I mean, we're talking hundreds of units per week here, if not thousands.

So I guess the question is, how prevalent are augs and prosthetics amongst Joe Public? Are there enough amputees and war vets to make such an industry prosper, or are people actively replacing limbs for the hell of it?

By the by, if I had a prediction to make for Detroit, I'd wager the car manufactures, if they are ever transformed, will be used to build the eventual upcomming high speed train network that is inevitable for America. Buffet is actively bidding on this by buying old train rails, and we know Obama has the idea in the back of his mind. If not him, another president will eventually jump on that idea, as soon as the budget is controlled enough to justify this enormous expense. It used to be that building roads would bring prosperity to a region and make thousands work, we can bet railroads will make a comeback in similar fashion. Easy leverage for the economy, and a quick partial solution for the energy crisis/oil dependence.

Pretentious Old Man.
14th Jul 2010, 17:53
Pretentious Old Man asked:

You can ask about either, and I’ll answer if can, NDAs permitting. I'm not going to give away major plot points, though.


Okay, let’s get this out of the way first; I’ll establish my bona fides.
Yes, I am very much a fan of Deus Ex, so when I got offered a chance to work on the third DX game, I took it like a shot. And yes, like pretty much everyone else who is on the design team for DX:HR, I’ve completed the original game a bunch of times. I got the "Game of the Year" edition of Deus Ex back in 2001 (while on holiday in Hong Kong, of all places), and played it to death. I also went through Invisible War on the old black brick Xbox, and the PC version of Project Snowblind.

Sabretooth asked:

Dan who?

super... asked:

Many things. It's a compelling cyberpunk future with great depth and interesting mythic/conspiracy underpinnings, a very dynamic landscape for action thriller stories. Fertile ground for any writer.


You want me to do a writing test, you can pay my standard day rate like everyone else...


Demand all you like, but that kind of thing falls under level design, not writing.


Yes. A fair number of them are written by me.


Short answer? Lots and lots of words.

Long answer? Scriptwriting, world building, character creation, background and environmental detail, plotting elements, narrative, weapon and augmentation development...

Pinky Powers asked:


I hope to usher in a new age of enlightenment and communion between the mammal and the machine. This text will be the roadmap that leads our species to a glorious transhuman future. Or something.

Was that too swell? I can never be sure...

Seriously, I don't have any grand scheme for this novel. I’m not that pretentious. I'm not purporting to create some monumental work of literature. I simply want to tell an engaging, thrilling story in a setting that I enjoy, and perhaps explore some of the aspects of that fictional world in a new medium.

Shadowdagger opines:

I'm not writing a novelization; a novelization would be an adaptation of the story of the game into a book. I'm writing a novel set in the world of the game. It's an original, standalone story that connects to the events of DX:HR.

The Youth Counselor asked:

In the novel? No.


I vant oh-range.

Many thanks, I can see that you take the time to do things properly. I wish you, your book and the game every commercial and artistic success. :flowers:

One final question, if you have time to answer (I understand if this falls under the heading of "major plot point/twist"), but do Majestic XII/Bob Page feature in HR? If you look at the continuity bible, I think that it's around this time that Page and "da crew" break off from the Illuminati to do their own thing. It'd be great if, even if they're not the main antagonists, there were some subtle references to their rise to power.

ArcR
14th Jul 2010, 18:41
Thank you JMS for taking the time to answer our questions. :flowers: Your answers were both informative and fun to read.

If you get a chance I have a couple of questions.

Is humor a part of DX:HR?
When is the release of the novel anticipated relative to the game?
You ever watch Ghost in the Shell? Just curious. :D


One final question, if you have time to answer (I understand if this falls under the heading of "major plot point/twist"), but do Majestic XII/Bob Page feature in HR?

Aww, come on POM. Do you really want that kind of spoiler? I mean, a lot of the fun in DX were things like "what? I'm going to Paris to meet an Illuminatus' daughter?! I wonder how this is going to turn out." Only to have a crazy cat lady tell you about a weapons cache and MJ-12 had taken over :eek:

Pretentious Old Man.
14th Jul 2010, 19:14
Thank you JMS for taking the time to answer our questions. :flowers: Your answers were both informative and fun to read.

If you get a chance I have a couple of questions.

Is humor a part of DX:HR?
When is the release of the novel anticipated relative to the game?
You ever watch Ghost in the Shell? Just curious. :D



Aww, come on POM. Do you really want that kind of spoiler? I mean, a lot of the fun in DX were things like "what? I'm going to Paris to meet an Illuminatus' daughter?! I wonder how this is going to turn out." Only to have a crazy cat lady tell you about a weapons cache and MJ-12 had taken over :eek:

It's a prequel. I already know what's going to happen after the end of the game, by definition... :thumb:

Sure, I don't want to hear "oh and btw, around chapter 5, you'll be betrayed by such and such..."

But I don't really see how a quick "yeah, they'll be mentioned somewhere" acts as a spoiler. After all, you know that UNATCO's formation is in there, somewhere near the end.

Shralla
14th Jul 2010, 19:17
Do you know Karl May? He was a german author and wrote about the wild west with his main protagonist an indian called Winnetou and his best friend Old Shatterhand. He was never in the orient or in america but he wrote about it.

In the mid-1800s when both the Orient and the Wild West were the two biggest frontiers in the modern world, opening up more and more on a daily basis, with information pouring across all corners of the globe with stories of wonder and romanticism. Yeah, a couple people outside the US wrote about the Wild West, but you know where the vast majority of it was written? In the US. Also, Karl May wrote books set in Germany as well.


Jule Verne was a french and he also didn`t wrote about France. You want to tell me, it`s a law that you have to write about your own country?

Likewise written at a time when the world was just beginning to open up, and all the corners were starting to be uncovered. You can write about people, places, or events. Jules Verne wrote about events, and what they meant to modern and future society, and people, in their reactions to the events in the books. No, there's no "law" that says you have to, but when faced with writing a piece set in modern times or slightly in the future, the most comfortable thing to write about is where you're from, because you already know what it's like. Honestly I would question the historical accuracy of both Verne's and May's writings. I would bet that May's visions of the Orient and Wild West are romanticized, reflecting anything you could read in a newspaper at the time.


It`s not very creative to build a story with Special Ops and Secret Service and the U.S..

Well that's just a blind statement. There's nothing "creative" or "uncreative" about writing a story with those characters. "Creativity" comes from how the actual story flows, and the elements being introduced within, something that none of us know anything about yet. And those characters are chosen for conspiracy writing because they have immediate and direct interface with the government, and therefore the conspiracy.

Shadowdagger
14th Jul 2010, 19:45
Of course a Deus Ex needs the Government, the sub-organisations and major corporations but that is not what I cricized. I critized the background of the protagonists and not the setting. Of course the rest of the story could be creative and good, I myself look forward to the book but to read a description like that let me rolling with the eyes. Why shouldn`t normal people get involved into a conspiracy? If I remember the biggest conspiracies, we have nurses, morticians, communists, the mafia, actors, welders, scientists and many more.

Yeah, just think of "the godfather" for example how fast "normal" people can be caught up in criminal groups for personal advantages. Heh, I love this book :D

I hate those kind of "in your face" books with no real subtlety. I hope that Deus Ex: The Icarus Effect won't fall into that trap.

SethSteiner
14th Jul 2010, 20:52
In the mid-1800s (...)

I never said that an author didn`t wrote stories in his home country, I never said that it`s bad. What I criticize is not more than an overkill of stories set in america with american people. If there is an iraqui, a russian, an agyptian, a french, a german, an indian I wouldn`t complain if the main person is called Ali, Priya, Samara, Olek or Hans or if the story plays in this or that city or capital from his homeland. And why? Because it`s new! Like I said, if you like to read the same again and again and again, no matter if it`s the story or the character. Go ahead. But you have to accept that not everyone is excited if he read about Jack and Jane.


Well that's just a blind statement. There's nothing "creative" or "uncreative" about writing a story with those characters. "Creativity" comes from how the actual story flows, and the elements being introduced within, something that none of us know anything about yet. And those characters are chosen for conspiracy writing because they have immediate and direct interface with the government, and therefore the conspiracy.

I am calling it uncreative if it comes to stereotypes and jeah soldiers or agents are stereotypes. It`s the same with the famous story about the guy whose parents died by a car accident and discovers at his 16th birthday that he is the chosen one. It`s just something you don`t have to think about very much. To repeat, instead of adding something new or (because there isn`t really anything new) different is what I call uncreative.

@Shadowdagger
That is what I hope too, that this what we know at the moment is not more than a little accident of a really good and entertaining book.

Shadowdagger
14th Jul 2010, 23:13
I am calling it uncreative if it comes to stereotypes and jeah soldiers or agents are stereotypes. It`s the same with the famous story about the guy whose parents died by a car accident and discovers at his 16th birthday that he is the chosen one. It`s just something you don`t have to think about very much. To repeat, instead of adding something new or (because there isn`t really anything new) different is what I call uncreative.

Yup, it reminds me of those trite James-Bondesque stories. Super-tough-guy (often Gary Stu-ish) kind of saves the world and how he does it, which effect it has on his psychology and development and what's his motivation, morals, oppinions etc. is superficially explained. They are often showed as overused, 2-dimensional, flat characters with no real personality.

I too, find soldiers and agents often stereotypically described in most mainstream books. They often come off as the hard-cold-sharpthinking-types of guys. It's like they're all clones or something.

I mean such stories may be okay for computer games (Adam Jensen isn't really a super original character, but that's okay for games) but for books... I await more quality, really. That's why I never really touched those game-based books ala Starcraft etc.


Heh, apropos clones: this reminds me of the funny parody ----> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HcK-My1j9Hg

pringlepower
14th Jul 2010, 23:26
If it comes down to government conspiracies wouldn't it make more sense for the characters to be in the Secret Service? I mean, as cool as it would be for a German farmer to find unsettling signs placed by a shadowy organization in his sausages...

FrankCSIS
15th Jul 2010, 00:10
I mean, as cool as it would be for a German farmer to find unsettling signs placed by a shadowy organization in his sausages...

How about a lone, organised farmer who puts things into his sausages, enough so that it affects thousands of people at first in a region, and then eventually across the globe as he exports? People would not think to look into their food, and those who do would naturally suspect the gvt or some shadowy organisation. An enormous conspiracy spawned from the actions of one german farmer.

Reminds me of the FLQ, which got the RCMP to believe a violent organisation with thousands of members were involved, while in reality they were no more than four, with a few close sympathisers as allies. Those guys managed to get Montreal under martial law, with soldiers and tanks in the streets. Real Deus Ex **** :p

Rindill the Red
15th Jul 2010, 03:08
I write about the Moon, but you cannot tell anyone. The world's not ready yet for such revelations.

Oh my god, you live on the moon, don't you?

On another note...

I have a few questions for Mr. Swallow...

Do you feel you are being rushed/don't have enough time to complete this book and work on the game to your satisfaction because of the tie-in deadline?

What would you say are the major influences on your writing for both the game and the novel?

Did you choose the name, "Icarus Effect"; I assume meaning that some sort of affect is effected in your story along the veins of the Daedalus and Icarus myth?

Will the "Icarus Effect" be a one time deal or are you considering writing a series?

What is your favorite book (or some of your favorite books)?

SethSteiner
15th Jul 2010, 12:26
If it comes down to government conspiracies wouldn't it make more sense for the characters to be in the Secret Service? I mean, as cool as it would be for a German farmer to find unsettling signs placed by a shadowy organization in his sausages...

Why should the Secret Service character be more believable than the German farmer? Let`s say a big corporation selled gen-semen which had a very bad result after a few month of consumption. Isn`t it more believable that the farmer himself discover the truth after maybe he himself is poisened? I also like FrankCSIS idea (really cool^^).
If I think about the great conspiracies normal people are at least to 50% as same involved as corporations or the government. Think about Roswell and Kennedy, was Kennedy shot in the middle of 500 soldiers? No but in the middle of hundreds of normal people, everyone of them could get involved. Lee Harvey Oswald wasn`t a Secret Service Agent or from the Special Ops wasn`t he? And if it comes to Roswell we speak about a whole town. I don`t think it makes more sense to have the SS agent who works for the government to discover a conspiracy and maybe fight against it as a normal person. For me as a reader it`s also helpful to have such a character with flaws and a life like everyone has in some way, because I can identify with him.

@Shadowdagger
That is excactly what I thought!

IOOI
15th Jul 2010, 14:39
Oh... How can people forget the "maintenance man".

Shralla
15th Jul 2010, 18:41
Lee Harvey Oswald wasn`t a Secret Service Agent or from the Special Ops wasn`t he?

He was in the Marines. That's more or less still the same thing you're complaining about.

SethSteiner
15th Jul 2010, 20:07
He was in the Marines. That's more or less still the same thing you're complaining about.

Not really. On the one hand he was very average, on the other hand he left the army. I`ve never said that a character couldn`t have had contact with the government or the militar anytime in his life. Many countries have a general conscription, so a high procentage of at least males were in the military, especially in the past. In the end, it`s about what I am doing - repetition. But a gangly guy like Oswald who was in the army and had such a life would be striking refreshing as a character.

Shralla
15th Jul 2010, 21:36
Nobody even KNOWS anything about his life after the marines. Such was made true by the fact that he was conveniently assassinated shortly after being taken into custody. I'm not huge into conspiracy theories, but I'm sorry, that's fishy as hell.

Most of the people you read about, even when they're secret service or whatever, are very average Joe Everydays.

JMSwallow
16th Jul 2010, 11:14
Sabretooth asked:

So long question short, will we have long technical descriptions for augmentations, items and weapons like in the original game?
I wrote long-form descriptions for all the weapons, weapon upgrades and augmentations in DX:HR. How that text will be implemented in the game is not up to me, though.


While we're discussing the world, think you can spill one of the two cities that we don't know about yet? Or at least get a confirmation on Philadelphia?
No, and no.

ThePrecursor asked:

1. Can you please give an example of the content of one of those books laying around in DX:HR? Even just a subject of a book would be nice to know, so I know what to expect.
I can't really be that specific. Suffice to say, expect something similar to what you saw in the original Deus Ex; texts that provide colour and texture to the gameworld, some tangential to the main story, some reflective of it.


2. Adam doesn't really look that caucasian, he looks like he must've got Asian or perhaps Greek or Spanish ancestry or something (kind of hard to verify). Is this something you guys intended? If so, can you perhaps tell me where Adams roots originate from?
Adam's "look" is more something the artists were responsible for. As for his "roots" and personal backstory, that's something that is addressed in the game.


3. Adam has an apartment in Detroit, right? Is this his only residence in the game?
Adam lives in Detroit.


4. From two screenshots of Detroit, there's an advertisement for "Il Metamorphosi", what seems to be an opera. Is there any information you can spill on this? Will Adam be able to visit it?
We cut the whole opera house level when we couldn't get the Pavarotti-Tron throat augmentation to work. We were going to have a Singstar/Lips minigame and everything...


5. This is a question which you probably can't answer, but I'll ask anyway. We know Sarif Industries is a very important cybernetics manufacturer, but I recall reading or hearing somewhere that there was another very important cybernetics company. So.....can you give us the name of the company?
You're right, I can't answer this question.


6. Is there a form of public transportation Adam can use in the cities he visits? Like that monorail from a Detroit screenshot?
That's a question for the level designers.

Mindmute said:

Can you tell us the ratio (rough estimate) that was spent working on the backstory of the world and lead characters when compared to the main storyarc of DX:HR.
I'd say it was a fairly equal share of effort, certainly at the earliest stages of development. But all the elements you mention have gone through a process of evolution right the way through the design cycle; these things aren't compartmentalized, they grow and change and inform one another as the project goes on.

FrankCSIS asked:

So I guess the question is, how prevalent are augs and prosthetics amongst Joe Public? Are there enough amputees and war vets to make such an industry prosper, or are people actively replacing limbs for the hell of it?
Good question; without giving too much away, I can tell you that this issue certainly forms part of the social and political landscape of the DX world, circa 2027.

Pretentious Old Man said:

One final question, if you have time to answer (I understand if this falls under the heading of "major plot point/twist"), but do Majestic XII/Bob Page feature in HR?
You don't really expect an answer to that, do you?
ArcR asked:

Is humor a part of DX:HR?
There's some dark humour in there. But it's not a laff riot or anything.


When is the release of the novel anticipated relative to the game?
The book will be out in February next year. I can't comment on the game's release date.


You ever watch Ghost in the Shell?
Yup. Great anime.

Rindill the Red asked:

Do you feel you are being rushed/don't have enough time to complete this book and work on the game to your satisfaction because of the tie-in deadline?

Gee, leading question much? :hmm:

While it would be great to have a year or two in which to craft a superlative novel of glowing narrative majesty, and be paid enough to devote all my time and energy to it, all professional writing projects have deadlines and limitations, and I'm working to those - so no, I don't feel rushed. I'm going to deliver the best work I can in the time allotted under the restrictions of the franchise.


What would you say are the major influences on your writing for both the game and the novel?
Deus Ex.


Did you choose the name, "Icarus Effect"; I assume meaning that some sort of affect is effected in your story along the veins of the Daedalus and Icarus myth?
Yes, I chose the title, and yes, the meaning of it is explained in the novel.


Will the "Icarus Effect" be a one time deal or are you considering writing a series?
That's up to my publishers at Del Rey Books. But there's certainly other stories that can be told in the Deus Ex world.


What is your favorite book (or some of your favorite books)?
I don't have a single favourite; looking across at my (mostly) SF bookshelf, I see, in no particular order: The Forever War, Do Androids Dream of Electric Sheep?, Consider Phlebas, The Stars My Destination, Lord of Light, The Shockwave Rider, Fight Club, Stand on Zanzibar, Neuromancer, The Fountains of Paradise, Altered Carbon, Ender's Game, The Diamond Age, Dune, The Patchwork Girl, Timelike Infinity, Starship Troopers, Software, Hardwired, When Gravity Fails...and loads more.

Sabretooth1
16th Jul 2010, 11:35
TL;DR: I'm not the PR guy, don't ask me stupid ****.

Pretentious Old Man.
16th Jul 2010, 12:09
Sabretooth asked:

I wrote long-form descriptions for all the weapons, weapon upgrades and augmentations in DX:HR. How that text will be implemented in the game is not up to me, though.


No, and no.

ThePrecursor asked:

I can't really be that specific. Suffice to say, expect something similar to what you saw in the original Deus Ex; texts that provide colour and texture to the gameworld, some tangential to the main story, some reflective of it.


Adam's "look" is more something the artists were responsible for. As for his "roots" and personal backstory, that's something that is addressed in the game.


Adam lives in Detroit.


We cut the whole opera house level when we couldn't get the Pavarotti-Tron throat augmentation to work. We were going to have a Singstar/Lips minigame and everything...


You're right, I can't answer this question.


That's a question for the level designers.

Mindmute said:

I'd say it was a fairly equal share of effort, certainly at the earliest stages of development. But all the elements you mention have gone through a process of evolution right the way through the design cycle; these things aren't compartmentalized, they grow and change and inform one another as the project goes on.

FrankCSIS asked:

Good question; without giving too much away, I can tell you that this issue certainly forms part of the social and political landscape of the DX world, circa 2027.

Pretentious Old Man said:

You don't really expect an answer to that, do you?
ArcR asked:

There's some dark humour in there. But it's not a laff riot or anything.


The book will be out in February next year. I can't comment on the game's release date.


Yup. Great anime.

Rindill the Red asked:


Gee, leading question much? :hmm:

While it would be great to have a year or two in which to craft a superlative novel of glowing narrative majesty, and be paid enough to devote all my time and energy to it, all professional writing projects have deadlines and limitations, and I'm working to those - so no, I don't feel rushed. I'm going to deliver the best work I can in the time allotted under the restrictions of the franchise.


Deus Ex.


Yes, I chose the title, and yes, the meaning of it is explained in the novel.


That's up to my publishers at Del Rey Books. But there's certainly other stories that can be told in the Deus Ex world.


I don't have a single favourite; looking across at my (mostly) SF bookshelf, I see, in no particular order: The Forever War, Do Androids Dream of Electric Sheep?, Consider Phlebas, The Stars My Destination, Lord of Light, The Shockwave Rider, Fight Club, Stand on Zanzibar, Neuromancer, The Fountains of Paradise, Altered Carbon, Ender's Game, The Diamond Age, Dune, The Patchwork Girl, Timelike Infinity, Starship Troopers, Software, Hardwired, When Gravity Fails...and loads more.

It was worth a try.

Irate_Iguana
16th Jul 2010, 12:28
We cut the whole opera house level when we couldn't get the Pavarotti-Tron throat augmentation to work. We were going to have a Singstar/Lips minigame and everything...

Damn. I was really looking forward to that minigame. It would have finally dragged the DX franchise into the 21st century.



TL;DR: I'm not the PR guy, don't ask me stupid ****.

Well, yeah. It's really nice that he's around to answer questions as best he can. Even if he were the PR guy there are a few questions being asked that would simply spoil too much.

Remington
2nd Oct 2010, 11:46
First of all, I'd like to say that you have been very attentive, and there is no question left unanswered (even if by a response like "I can't tell you"). Keep it up.

I have one question:
Prior to (and during) the process of writing DX:HR and TIE, have you done any background research on the current technology developments (e.g., visual augmentation (http://www.gizmag.com/electronic-contact-lens-promises-bionic-capabilities-for-everyone/8689/), limb replacement and attachment to nervous system) and extrapolated, or is it mostly imaginative material?


EDIT:
Oops, way to revive an old thread...

JMSwallow
2nd Oct 2010, 18:13
I have one question:
Prior to (and during) the process of writing DX:HR and TIE, have you done any background research on the current technology developments (e.g., visual augmentation (http://www.gizmag.com/electronic-contact-lens-promises-bionic-capabilities-for-everyone/8689/), limb replacement and attachment to nervous system) and extrapolated, or is it mostly imaginative material?

Oh, heck yeah. I think there was hardly a week that went by without someone on the team coming along with a new interesting piece of tech journalism or research paperwork they had found. Plus, we had a neuroscientist on the payroll as a consultant. We've tried to make sure as much of the augmentation-tech in the DX gameworld is rooted in real-world technology as possible.

Remington
2nd Oct 2010, 19:20
Wow, simply wow. Thanks for the quick answer.

I have to admit it is a lot more than I expected you'd do (where "you" means personally, as a team and in the HR (human resources, not revolution) aspect), and I'm sure that when the novel and game come out it will be properly praised.

OwlSolar
3rd Oct 2010, 01:43
Seriously, I don't have any grand scheme for this novel. I’m not that pretentious. I'm not purporting to create some monumental work of literature. I simply want to tell an engaging, thrilling story in a setting that I enjoy, and perhaps explore some of the aspects of that fictional world in a new medium.
I'm sold already.

Lady_Of_The_Vine
21st Oct 2010, 09:20
Latest news:


Incidentally, the cover for Icarus Effect - as drawn by DX:HR's very own Jim Murray - is almost approved, so hopefully I'll be able to show it off soonish...

avenging_teabag
21st Oct 2010, 09:44
Oh, heck yeah. I think there was hardly a week that went by without someone on the team coming along with a new interesting piece of tech journalism or research paperwork they had found. Plus, we had a neuroscientist on the payroll as a consultant. We've tried to make sure as much of the augmentation-tech in the DX gameworld is rooted in real-world technology as possible.
Wow. So far, I've never opened a videogame novel that wasn't utter garbage, so I wasn't even going to bother with this one, but now maybe I should.

Lady_Of_The_Vine
21st Oct 2010, 12:54
I will be getting a copy. Preferably signed by James. Hint.. hint. :flowers:

BigBoss
21st Oct 2010, 16:26
Initiating next phase of operation Money Cow...

And from the shadows, dark and secret powers are coming together to take control, intent on designs so large, so intricate, they will take decades to come to fruition.

This I really like though. I'd even agree more with Pinky's above statement had the novel been written by DeMerle herself. Or conversely, this James Swallow dude would be somehow involved in HR's backbench writing.

Black glove?

KSingh77
21st Oct 2010, 17:47
Will the book have non-lethal takedowns?

Kodaemon
21st Oct 2010, 17:52
What mode of narration does the book use? If it's first person narration, does it switch to third person when the lead character climbs a ladder? Because that would be so COOL!

Deus_Ex_Machina
21st Oct 2010, 19:33
What mode of narration does the book use? If it's first person narration, does it switch to third person when the lead character climbs a ladder? Because that would be so COOL!

icwutudidthar! :D

KSingh77
21st Oct 2010, 20:03
The first page of the book will say something like "the year is 2027".

"I'am a black ops soldier and NO,I'am not from COD Black Ops."

Ashpolt
21st Oct 2010, 20:36
What mode of narration does the book use? If it's first person narration, does it switch to third person when the lead character climbs a ladder? Because that would be so COOL!

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v427/ashpolt/1249818100663.gif

Pretentious Old Man.
21st Oct 2010, 20:43
What mode of narration does the book use? If it's first person narration, does it switch to third person when the lead character climbs a ladder? Because that would be so COOL!

http://t2.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:KZ9-ZQw5VCUO5M:http://www.afunnystuff.com/forumpics/you_win_the_prize.jpg&t=1

Blade_hunter
21st Oct 2010, 20:43
What mode of narration does the book use? If it's first person narration, does it switch to third person when the lead character climbs a ladder? Because that would be so COOL!

Best shot fired :thumb:

[FGS]Shadowrunner
21st Oct 2010, 21:34
Wouldn't like to comment until I've seen the game... it remains to be seen whether EM really understand the story of DX1. So far from trailers, it is promising, but I'll hold fire until I see the game itself.

Take the "Alien" series of films for example. The first is by far the best one, directed by Ridley Scott.

Then the sequel was given to an action movie director with a huge and that is exactly what he produced, an action movie with a huge budget.

Then the third episode, let's face it, was pretty weak.

And episode number 4 is hardly even "Alien" anymore...although better than version 3.

So therefore I wonder if you can replace original authors/directors with a new team and still mix the magic.

We don't have to wait long to find out.

And yes a DX bookmovie which isn't a non-lethal playthrough would be a major international crime, of which the author would deserve to be rick-rolled for the rest of his life...

Ashpolt
21st Oct 2010, 21:59
^^ Am I the only person who liked Alien 3? OK, it's not as good as the first two - no one's arguing that. But it's better than Alien Resurrection by a country mile. And I say that as a die-hard Joss Whedon fan.

That said, Winona Ryder's cuteness did count for a lot in Resurrection.

And on a related note, did anyone play the Alien Resurrection game on PS1? It was rock hard, but brilliant nonetheless. I never got past level 6 of 10, but loved every minute that I played. :)

[EDIT] Apologies: This is all massively off-topic.

Jerion
21st Oct 2010, 22:59
^^ Am I the only person who liked Alien 3? OK, it's not as good as the first two - no one's arguing that. But it's better than Alien Resurrection by a country mile. And I say that as a die-hard Joss Whedon fan.

That said, Winona Ryder's cuteness did count for a lot in Resurrection.

And on a related note, did anyone play the Alien Resurrection game on PS1? It was rock hard, but brilliant nonetheless. I never got past level 6 of 10, but loved every minute that I played. :)

[EDIT] Apologies: This is all massively off-topic.

It's horrendously OT, but I liked Alien 3. A bit of a different vein from the first two but an enjoyable movie nonetheless.

I'm looking forward to this novel, it might be the first non-Starcraft VG book I'll consider buying.

[FGS]Shadowrunner
21st Oct 2010, 23:05
Goes to show, one man's whiskey is another man's poison... I liked all 4 films, I was just expecting something a bit more epic than soap stars running around a furnace.

The mention of the neuroscientist being on the EM payroll is encouraging, I know I mentioned in another thread, but that even more makes me wonder. They paid a neuroscientist to make sure they were accurate, but they have put a chinese city in a major earthquake zone on stilts?

I'll buy the book and convert every word into a Deus Ex Multiplayer map...

OwlSolar
22nd Oct 2010, 00:14
What mode of narration does the book use? If it's first person narration, does it switch to third person when the lead character climbs a ladder? Because that would be so COOL!
Clever. :D

Ashpolt
22nd Oct 2010, 00:15
It's horrendously OT, but I liked Alien 3. A bit of a different vein from the first two but an enjoyable movie nonetheless.

I actually see Alien 3 as kind of a sequel to Alien, with Alien Resurrection as a sequel to Aliens. Tonally, those pairs are fairly similar.

Also replaying the recent Aliens vs Predator at the moment. Reviews be damned, I have a lot of fun with this game, especially now I can run it with everything maxed out. Just completed the Marine campaign, did Predator last week, so just Alien to go now! (Though I've completed them all before.)

Sorry James Swallow, this thread now seems to be about Geiger's Aliens. Have anything to contribute?

JMSwallow
22nd Oct 2010, 09:23
What mode of narration does the book use? If it's first person narration, does it switch to third person when the lead character climbs a ladder? Because that would be so COOL!

Okay, who leaked the manuscript?! Damn it...

JMSwallow
22nd Oct 2010, 09:25
Sorry James Swallow, this thread now seems to be about Geiger's Aliens. Have anything to contribute?

I liked the movies. I think Alien 3 has some merit - I even wrote about it in a book I did about David Fincher's films a few years back. The fourth one has some good bits in it, but it's kinda like a dry-run for Firefly.

Kodaemon
22nd Oct 2010, 09:55
Okay, who leaked the manuscript?! Damn it...

Heheh, sorry about that snark, but it just showcases one of the worst design decisions in the game's design too perfectly :D

Lady_Of_The_Vine
22nd Oct 2010, 10:00
Can't wait to see Jim Murray's artwork. I love what he did for "Spaced". :thumb:

JMSwallow
22nd Oct 2010, 10:02
Heheh, sorry about that snark, but it just showcases one of the worst design decisions in the game's design too perfectly :D

Or, y'know, not. But hey, I've played the game and you haven't, so what do I know? *cough*snark*cough*

JMSwallow
22nd Oct 2010, 10:07
Can't wait to see Jim Murray's artwork. I love what he did for "Spaced". :thumb:

Jim's stuff is stellar. I had a bunch of his design pix as reference material while working on Icarus Effect. I too am a fan of Spaced - in fact, there's an oblique nod to the show that appears in the background of the game...

Lady_Of_The_Vine
22nd Oct 2010, 10:09
Jim's stuff is stellar. I had a bunch of his design pix as reference material while working on Icarus Effect. I too am a fan of Spaced - in fact, there's an oblique nod to the show that appears in the background of the game...

This is awesome, thanks for this info. Spaced is one of the best Brit comedy shows I'd seen for a long time. Genius writing, acting and direction... it's a timeless masterpiece! :cool:

Kodaemon
22nd Oct 2010, 10:13
Or, y'know, not. But hey, I've played the game and you haven't, so what do I know? *cough*snark*cough*

Not necessary. Just watching the gameplay vids, the constant perspective switches was enough to make me a bit nauseous. But enough about that, looking still looking forward to both the game and the book :thumb:

OwlSolar
23rd Oct 2010, 04:38
Not necessarily what? :confused:

Kodaemon
23rd Oct 2010, 04:53
Playing the game, to know third person switching makes me sick.

Pinky_Powers
23rd Oct 2010, 05:08
The fourth one has some good bits in it, but it's kinda like a dry-run for Firefly.

Jesus god, man! You couldn't have stolen my thoughts any more if you had bore into my brain with a power drill and physically removed them! :eek:

And yeah, I like Alien 3 quite a bit, though for me its the least of the series.


What mode of narration does the book use? If it's first person narration, does it switch to third person when the lead character climbs a ladder? Because that would be so COOL!

Right'o... I'm gunna have to join in with the back-slapping on that one. :thumb: :D

Lady_Of_The_Vine
23rd Oct 2010, 10:53
Jesus god, man! You couldn't have stolen my thoughts any more if you had bore into my brain with a power drill and physically removed them! :eek:

James has Omar powers, didn't you know? ;)

Sabretooth1
23rd Oct 2010, 11:05
I too am a fan of Spaced - in fact, there's an oblique nod to the show that appears in the background of the game...

Yeah, don't expect Deus Ex fans to miss stuff like that. (http://forums.eidosgames.com/showpost.php?p=1309404&postcount=12) :p

JMSwallow
23rd Oct 2010, 14:09
Yeah, don't expect Deus Ex fans to miss stuff like that. (http://forums.eidosgames.com/showpost.php?p=1309404&postcount=12) :p

Hey, nice catch. There are some other similar references (not just to Spaced) in the game in a couple of places.

Lady_Of_The_Vine
28th Oct 2010, 10:14
Any news on Jim's artwork yet, James? Very eager to see it. :)

JMSwallow
28th Oct 2010, 10:48
Any news on Jim's artwork yet, James? Very eager to see it. :)

Nothing yet; the cover is going through the approval process at the moment. Rest assured, I'll be blogging and tweeting about it the moment it's ready...

DXeXodus
28th Oct 2010, 11:12
Very exciting. I am looking forward to this and really wish you all the best James!

Lady_Of_The_Vine
28th Oct 2010, 15:55
Nothing yet; the cover is going through the approval process at the moment. Rest assured, I'll be blogging and tweeting about it the moment it's ready...

Thank you. :friends:

Angel-A
13th Nov 2010, 07:08
http://www.amazon.com/Deus-Ex-Icarus-James-Swallow/dp/0345523598/ref=wl_it_dp_o?ie=UTF8&coliid=I2T8HOQFHY5YP1&colid=I6HG8JZTX3ST

Not sure if this was already posted, but... The cover!

Pinky_Powers
13th Nov 2010, 07:34
Oh! Very, very cool!

:thumb: :thumb:

Sabretooth1
13th Nov 2010, 08:01
Not sure if this was already posted, but... The cover!

Oh my god, JC, a cover!
A COVER.
Get outta there.

AlexOfSpades
13th Nov 2010, 10:55
http://www.amazon.com/Deus-Ex-Icarus-James-Swallow/dp/0345523598/ref=wl_it_dp_o?ie=UTF8&coliid=I2T8HOQFHY5YP1&colid=I6HG8JZTX3ST

Not sure if this was already posted, but... The cover!

iwantiwantiwantiwantiwant

Kodaemon
13th Nov 2010, 11:19
Ok, so there's the cover, but where's the third person? :scratch:

Lady_Of_The_Vine
13th Nov 2010, 11:47
Ok, so there's the cover, but where's the third person? :scratch:
Hiding, he's spineless. :D


Nice find, thank you Angel-A!
The release date states February 22, 2011... I wonder if this date will coincide with the game's release too. If so, extra cookies awarded to EM. :cool:

Mindmute
13th Nov 2010, 11:50
Ok, so there's the cover, but where's the third person? :scratch:

Whenever you buy the book, someone shows up to film you doing it. Then they show you the footage, so they can show off how cool you looked buying the book ;)

Kodaemon
13th Nov 2010, 12:06
Seeing that cover finally made me realise why some of the art felt so familiar:

They're channelling Rob Liefeld. (http://progressiveboink.com/archive/robliefeld.html)

http://img229.imageshack.us/img229/3282/cablejm3.jpg

Corpus
13th Nov 2010, 12:06
Hiding, he's spineless. :D


Nice find, thank you Angel-A!
The release date states February 22, 2011... I wonder if this date will coincide with the game's release too. If so, extra cookies awarded to EM. :cool:

Sure as hell hope so.
Pre-ordered anyways :)

TheYouthCounselor
13th Nov 2010, 12:18
Seeing that cover finally made me realise why some of the art felt so familiar:

They're channelling Rob Liefeld. (http://progressiveboink.com/archive/robliefeld.html)

http://img229.imageshack.us/img229/3282/cablejm3.jpg

Yeah, I was thinking the same thing, except with talent.

My first impression of the male cyborg (Ben Saxon?) was that he looked just like a 90's comic drawing, complete with really strange anatomy. Then I realized that he was heavily modified with mechanical parts that don't necessarily need to adhere to proportions and can be posed in anatomically impossible ways. So it is actually very fitting.

KSingh77
13th Nov 2010, 17:27
Nice

Seems he's wearing the same shades as Adam,must be a popular style.

Wonder if he and Barrett will meet at one point?

Pinky_Powers
13th Nov 2010, 19:05
Every time I see a Liefeld drawing, I vomit a bit in my mouth. The guy is so bad at so many things. :(

Shralla
13th Nov 2010, 19:33
Every time I see a Liefeld drawing, I vomit a bit in my mouth. The guy is so bad at so many things. :(

It's funny though. If you go to his site and check out what he's been doing recently, he really isn't that bad anymore. It seems like a case of somebody being given too much responsibility and clout (in making popular comics) before he really even came into his own.

That said, he's still hilarious.

Corpus
13th Nov 2010, 20:38
Hardly anyone portrays cable well enough.

This is probably the only one I've seen that doesn't make him look bulky as hell.
http://spidey82.files.wordpress.com/2008/08/cable6.jpg

Pinky_Powers
13th Nov 2010, 21:51
I'm glad those two love-birds were finally able to adopt.

But it's not the bulkiness that is so bad, even though Liefeld overdoes it well beyond most artists. It's that he just doesn't know anatomy, perspective, proportions, and a million other things.

The early 90s was a wild time for comic artists. But some are able to adjust to the aesthetic of the age, and still abide to the fundamentals.

Jim Lee
http://www.4thletter.net/wp-content/uploads/2007/09/xm111516.jpg

Liefeld... his characters just come off grotesque.
http://cloudworld.files.wordpress.com/2009/11/liefeld_cap.jpg

http://comiccoverage.typepad.com/.a/6a00d8345158e369e20115708ce2cd970b-800wi

Irate_Iguana
13th Nov 2010, 22:09
I'm glad those two love-birds were finally able to adopt.

That was exactly what I thought when I saw it.

KSingh77
13th Nov 2010, 22:19
Lets hope big guy doesn't fall over and crush the woman with the gun.

Corpus
13th Nov 2010, 22:29
Liefeld... his characters just come off grotesque.


That first Captain America image is down right offensive. Who honestly hires that guy to **** up their ideas.

Pinky_Powers
13th Nov 2010, 22:34
Who honestly hires that guy to **** up their ideas.

Folk who want their books to sell. Bob Liefeld was a superstar back then... for no reason I could ever understand.

Angel-A
13th Nov 2010, 23:09
Liefeld... his characters just come off grotesque.
http://cloudworld.files.wordpress.com/2009/11/liefeld_cap.jpg
Ahh! Aaaahhhhh! AAAAAAAAAHHHHHH AAAAAAAAAHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH!
NO AMOUNT OF EYE BLEACH WILL EVER MAKE THAT OKAY

And here I thought the way that comic books make all their male characters look like frigging refrigerators was bad already.

FrankCSIS
13th Nov 2010, 23:19
It looks as though a tremendously fat Captain America is wearing an uplifting corset. Somehow his backfat is immune to it, however.

Spyhopping
13th Nov 2010, 23:33
That is a really weird pic. To me it just looks as if he's got another mans decapitated torso down his top.

And on topic, I love the Icarus effect book cover. Slick art, great design. I wonder if we'll be treated to a female protagonist. Wouldn't object to seeing the DX world from the perspective of a woman (Alex D doesn't count :P).

Rindill the Red
14th Nov 2010, 00:39
That is a really weird pic. To me it just looks as if he's got another mans decapitated torso down his top.

And on topic, I love the Icarus effect book cover. Slick art, great design. I wonder if we'll be treated to a female protagonist. Wouldn't object to seeing the DX world from the perspective of a woman (Alex D doesn't count :P).

Yes we will, I believe, one of the two main characters.

Lady_Of_The_Vine
14th Nov 2010, 09:06
Shout out to Mr James Swallow! :wave:
I will be buying your novel... I can't wait.

But now you're here. Any chance I can post it to your address for a signature? I'll cover the cost of return. :p

JMSwallow
14th Nov 2010, 19:57
Hey, cool. The final cover is up, at last. w00t, as they say. Once again, kudos to Jim Murray for the great art.

FYI, what you're seeing there is indeed the two lead characters - Ben Saxon and Anna Kelso.

Lady_Of_The_Vine
14th Nov 2010, 20:33
Thanks very much, James! We salute you! :wave:

Pinky_Powers
14th Nov 2010, 21:41
Hey, cool. The final cover is up, at last. w00t, as they say. Once again, kudos to Jim Murray for the great art.

FYI, what you're seeing there is indeed the two lead characters - Ben Saxon and Anna Kelso.

Looks and sounds great Mr. Swallow. I'll certainly be reading this. :thumb:

ThePrecursor
14th Nov 2010, 21:50
Yes! Excellent artwork there, I'll look into the novel.

Rindill the Red
14th Nov 2010, 22:42
Yes! Excellent artwork there, I'll look into the novel.

Don't judge a book by it's cover.

ThePrecursor
14th Nov 2010, 22:59
Don't judge a book by it's cover.

I'm not, I said "I'll look into the novel" as in "I'll look into it to see if it's worth reading" through reviews and such, not actually buying the novel to look into it. ;)

Lady_Of_The_Vine
17th Nov 2010, 22:59
Don't judge a book by it's cover.
Indeed.



Omar are abominations in God's sight, much less than human.

Preach some more! :p

3rdmillhouse
18th Nov 2010, 20:27
Gentlemen, for the love of God, let's stop posting Rob Liefeld's "artworks" here. They make my eyes bleed.

Pinky_Powers
19th Nov 2010, 03:33
Gentlemen, for the love of God, let's stop posting Rob Liefeld's "artworks" here. They make my eyes bleed.

We stopped six days ago, mate. ;)

FrankCSIS
19th Nov 2010, 03:40
He lost me at Gentlemen, really.

Lady_Of_The_Vine
19th Nov 2010, 22:16
^
At least he is polite. :)

Lady_Of_The_Vine
17th Dec 2010, 12:34
Sorry for double post... I'll merge it later.
But just spotted Mr Swallow on line. ;)

James, do you know if the book's release date remains the same; or will it be pushed back to coincide with the release of DX:HR, the game?

Thanks James. :)

Donvermicelli
17th Dec 2010, 13:38
I guess I will probably read this, I could use a good book.

Lady_Of_The_Vine
17th Dec 2010, 14:22
Mr Swallow must have missed my question. :(
Maybe he'll come back and answer for us next time.

Unless Kyle knows. Kyle? :)

H.D.Case
17th Dec 2010, 16:19
Hey, cool. The final cover is up, at last. w00t, as they say. Once again, kudos to Jim Murray for the great art.

FYI, what you're seeing there is indeed the two lead characters - Ben Saxon and Anna Kelso.

Anna Kelso? Does she happen to have some super-duper brain aug? (HINT (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MwPLQ43JVYU))
:D

Edit: I may actually have some questions to you, if you don't mind (and if you happen to visit the forum again)?

1. Have you played Syndicate? It seems to have much in common with DX and probably even more with DX:HR.
2. Are Adam's augmentations Sariff's property? Meaning, does Adam OWN the augmentations he has been forced to use?
3. I am actually surprised that you mentioned Neuromancer, but you did not mention Count Zero. It is the same trilogy, but it is the second book that seems to feature things that seem to be featured in DX:HR.
In relation to Neuromancer, is it possible, in the DX:HR universe, to create data-constructs, like Dixie Flatline? ;)

regards!

JMSwallow
20th Dec 2010, 10:24
James, do you know if the book's release date remains the same; or will it be pushed back to coincide with the release of DX:HR, the game?

There are no plans to change the release date of the book, as far as I know; but that sort of decision is up to the publisher, not me. I signed off on the last set of edits earlier this month, so the text will be off to the printers.

Mindmute
20th Dec 2010, 10:26
There are no plans to change the release date of the book, as far as I know; but that sort of decision is up to the publisher, not me. I signed off on the last set of edits earlier this month, so the text will be off to the printers.

Operation intercept is "so greenlight"!

JMSwallow
20th Dec 2010, 10:30
Anna Kelso? Does she happen to have some super-duper brain aug?

Uh. Not really.


Have you played Syndicate? It seems to have much in common with DX and probably even more with DX:HR.
Yes, I played it.

Are Adam's augmentations Sariff's property? Meaning, does Adam OWN the augmentations he has been forced to use?
He's got them on a very reasonable rent-to-own arrangement, which will work out fine as long as he keeps up the payments.

I am actually surprised that you mentioned Neuromancer, but you did not mention Count Zero. It is the same trilogy, but it is the second book that seems to feature things that seem to be featured in DX:HR.
I mentioned a lot of books; Neuromancer is the start of the Sprawl series, so it follows that the others are worth reading, I reckon.

In relation to Neuromancer, is it possible, in the DX:HR universe, to create data-constructs, like Dixie Flatline?
I imagine so.

Senka
20th Dec 2010, 10:42
edit: nevermind I'm an idiot, there is already a page for the kindle edition. <3

[FGS]Shadowrunner
20th Dec 2010, 12:12
He's got them on a very reasonable rent-to-own arrangement, which will work out fine as long as he keeps up the payments.


Mr Swallow, thanks for being here and answering some questions. That's an intriguing statement, can't wait to read the rest.


View the augmentations at http://www.sarifindustries.com
Pre-order them at my paypal account :D
If you pre-order we'll throw in Icarus Landing System for free.
100 a month, starting now, they will be ready for you in 2027.
This is a genuine advertisement :D

Rindill the Red
20th Dec 2010, 16:36
So the novel is done?

How do you feel about it? Mr. Swallow?

[FGS]Shadowrunner
21st Dec 2010, 06:17
He never asked for this... he doesn't know which page he's on...he'll never stop writing...

Donvermicelli
21st Dec 2010, 07:40
1. Have you played Syndicate? It seems to have much in common with DX and probably even more with DX:HR.
2. Are Adam's augmentations Sariff's property? Meaning, does Adam OWN the augmentations he has been forced to use?

I played that game and indeed it has lots of similarities with HR and you might actually be on to something there with those augs..

JMSwallow
21st Dec 2010, 10:43
So the novel is done?
It's been done for a while.


How do you feel about it?
I'm delirious with anticipation. Also a little sleepy.

H.D.Case
21st Dec 2010, 12:13
Oh, I did not expect you'd answer so fast - sorry for my late after-answer then. Thank you for your time of course, interesting things came up :)


Uh. Not really.
The Kelso name is so tantamount to the tv show for me that the association was immediate. I thought it was some sort of inside joke. Yet, that wouldn't be good for publicity when I think about it now. Male chauvinism and stuff. Feminists would eat you alive :D (Edit:somehow is sounds so wrong!)

@ Syndicate stuff

Yes, I played it. That's great! Experiencing the game gives like +3 points to the cyberpunk climate-crafting skill. They cut it quite nicely, especially with the background information from the game manual. I am glad you know your legacy -gives big hopes for the final product ;)


He's got them on a very reasonable rent-to-own arrangement, which will work out fine as long as he keeps up the payments.
"Curious." So just as I suspected - he is done for. ;) I like your way with words - you do not give out things explicitly - people who do otherwise make their products pretentious and too obvious - like in many contemporary films ("oh no, it's going to bloooow" stuff)


I mentioned a lot of books; Neuromancer is the start of the Sprawl series, so it follows that the others are worth reading, I reckon.
You are right, of course. I just meant that the second book featured things that seem to be the closest to what DX icludes. I think. :)
@ data-constructs

I imagine so. Hmh... I thought I would trick you here, but, again, you use the words too carefully :D I was thinking about Eliza. If, as we discussed somewhere here, AIs could not probably be developed enough at that time, maybe she is... Ah, ok, maybe let us not spoil ourselves the plot. I suppose this is why people did not want to ask so many questions here. We'll probably have some more after the book/game is released.

Cheers to you and thanks for the answers :)

H.D.Case
21st Dec 2010, 12:15
I played that game and indeed it has lots of similarities with HR and you might actually be on to something there with those augs..

We are yet to see :) And Syndicate... I wish they made a new one!

Red
21st Dec 2010, 13:45
I've pre-ordered the book from amazon. The packaging and postage will cost me almost twice as the book itself. Them bastards.

JCpies
21st Dec 2010, 16:39
I've pre-ordered the book from amazon. The packaging and postage will cost me almost twice as the book itself. Them bastards.

Isn't there the 'Free super saver' option? lol.

Red
21st Dec 2010, 16:44
What's that? Never used amazon.

EDIT:

Super Saver Delivery on Amazon.co.uk

Super Saver Delivery is currently available for customers ordering items to the UK and many European destinations.

Visit the following Help pages for more information, as well as the Terms & Conditions:

Super Saver Delivery in the UK

Customers in the UK can get free UK delivery with no minimum purchase on eligible items.
For more details and terms and conditions, click here

Super Saver Delivery to European destinations
Customers in the following countries can get free delivery for orders over £25 on eligible items.
Belgium, Denmark, Luxembourg, Netherlands, Andorra, Finland, Gibraltar, Greece, Iceland, Ireland, Italy, Liechtenstein, Norway, Portugal, San Marino, Spain, Sweden, Vatican city, Poland.
For more details and terms and conditions, click here

The book is little over 5GBP and I'm from Slovenia, so yeah, LOL indeed -.-

JCpies
21st Dec 2010, 16:50
What's that? Never used amazon.

EDIT:


The book is little over 5GBP and I'm from Slovenia, so yeah, LOL indeed -.-

Oops. Sorry European cousin.

Red
21st Dec 2010, 17:16
Well, it's not your fault...

Or is it?! :dun-duuuun:

JMSwallow
22nd Dec 2010, 10:56
Now I think of it, I should mention that there are going to be US, UK and eBook editions of Icarus Effect in English, and I'm told there will be German and Italian translations as well.

Ginsu
22nd Dec 2010, 12:24
Whether or not the novel will be any good (which I somehow doubt in my snobbery), this can only be a good sign for the depth and writing that's going into the game.

You ever played that failed attempt from ubisoft to make an RTS from the Tom Clancy universe, 'EndWar'?
They had a novel release too...

xaduha
22nd Dec 2010, 17:30
Now I think of it, I should mention that there are going to be US, UK and eBook editions of Icarus Effect in English, and I'm told there will be German and Italian translations as well.

I'd love an audiobook edition.

Shralla
22nd Dec 2010, 19:08
He's got them on a very reasonable rent-to-own arrangement, which will work out fine as long as he keeps up the payments.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v181/Shralla/repo-advertisement.jpg

On a more serious note though, if Sarif ends up being the BBEG at the end of the game, I'm going to be pissed at how absurdly predictable the whole thing is.

Rindill the Red
22nd Dec 2010, 19:32
I'd love an audiobook edition.

Read by FrankCSIS.

Irate_Iguana
22nd Dec 2010, 19:45
On a more serious note though, if Sarif ends up being the BBEG at the end of the game, I'm going to be pissed at how absurdly predictable the whole thing is.

This is done so often that people are actually expecting it now. If the company you work for doesn't turn out to be the big bad it's a novelty.

Rindill the Red
22nd Dec 2010, 20:15
This is done so often that people are actually expecting it now. If the company you work for doesn't turn out to be the big bad it's a novelty.

I'm thinking that DX:HR won't have any clear bad guys. (There may be some psychopaths (Fedorova)... not Barret, because to me he seems like he has it together and just really enjoys his job.) I think of all the characters Sarif will probably be the most cut and dry. You have a close working relationship with him from the start... he may be hiding a few things... revolutionary ideas and special technology or the like... but by and far I think his motives will be plain.

Pinky_Powers
22nd Dec 2010, 22:16
but by and far I think his motives will be plain.

I'd be surprised if any of the powerful players have motives than aren't deeply veiled and convoluted. Sarif may remain a good guy from start to finish, but I'll be disappointed if we don't unearth some seriously questionable activities by our good CEO; something to at least make us question our loyalty to him.

And then in proper Deus Ex fashion, we could maybe have a choice to turn on him... depending on our own moral sensibilities.

El_Bel
23rd Dec 2010, 00:26
Thanks for all the info man. You are the best!

I have a question. When someone shoots Adam in the chest does blood come out?

FrankCSIS
23rd Dec 2010, 02:18
Read by FrankCSIS.

Hah! I'm all for it :cool:


I'd be surprised if any of the powerful players have motives than aren't deeply veiled and convoluted.

You know, I'm really hoping for a George R R Martin approach to this. No clear cut baddies, just a whole bunch of people out there looking out for themselves and their entourage, trying to cut a good chunk of this delicious, drool-worthy cake. Whether they pass as good or bad will solely depend on the path they use to get there.

Rindill the Red
23rd Dec 2010, 06:53
You know, I'm really hoping for a George R R Martin approach to this. No clear cut baddies, just a whole bunch of people out there looking out for themselves and their entourage, trying to cut a good chunk of this delicious, drool-worthy cake. Whether they pass as good or bad will solely depend on the path they use to get there.

Deus Ex was kinda like that... except that the characters in Deus Ex games are also usually caught up in philosophical beliefs and motivations as well. Sometimes they are just rationalizing their greed, lust for power, etc... other times they might actually be faithful to their beliefs... often times you can't really tell... and it may be some of both.

In GRRM's masterpiece, many of the characters who actively vie for the throne are just doing it for selfish reasons... not really because they are the champion for a certain philosophy or out of the will to do what is best for everyone. (It's been awhile since I read them though.)

Lady_Of_The_Vine
30th Dec 2010, 09:16
There are no plans to change the release date of the book, as far as I know; but that sort of decision is up to the publisher, not me. I signed off on the last set of edits earlier this month, so the text will be off to the printers.

Thank you for this reassurance. :thumb:

JCpies
30th Dec 2010, 11:03
I'm thinking that DX:HR won't have any clear bad guys. (There may be some psychopaths (Fedorova)... not Barret, because to me he seems like he has it together and just really enjoys his job.) I think of all the characters Sarif will probably be the most cut and dry. You have a close working relationship with him from the start... he may be hiding a few things... revolutionary ideas and special technology or the like... but by and far I think his motives will be plain.

Hopefully you won't be forced to go rogue like in Deus Ex 1... I really wish it was fully completed...

Will the book be worth the money?

H.D.Case
30th Dec 2010, 11:40
Will the book be worth the money?
Now, tell me what is the point of this question, are you serious? Do you expect a "no" maybe? I would never in the world imagine somebody from EM, let alone THE author, to write that the book is not worth the money, even if it had been the biggest literary abomination that has ever been scribbled by a human being. Come on!

JCpies
30th Dec 2010, 12:53
Now, tell me what is the point of this question, are you serious? Do you expect a "no" maybe? I would never in the world imagine somebody from EM, let alone THE author, to write that the book is not worth the money, even if it had been the biggest literary abomination that has ever been scribbled by a human being. Come on!

I was waiting for the author to answer my question.

JMSwallow
30th Dec 2010, 16:21
Will the book be worth the money?


I was waiting for the author to answer my question.

Well, let's see... A work of fiction that I spent a goodly amount of time and effort writing, that I am strongly invested in as an author; do I think it's worth the cover price? Of course I bloody do. YMMV, of course, but I don't write stuff or work on projects that I don't care about, irrelevant of their popularity, success or lack thereof.

JCpies
30th Dec 2010, 17:49
Thankyou for the reply.

See H.D, I knew we'd get a truthful reliable answer in the end.

Rindill the Red
30th Dec 2010, 20:15
Thankyou for the reply.

See H.D, I knew we'd get a truthful reliable answer in the end.

He's a writer, he has you in his element. What's he going to say? That he feels it isn't his best work? That he spent a lot of time on it but on reflection it didn't turn out very well? That, honestly, it's pretty much on par or worse than the rest of the crowded fantasy/sci-fi market? That it's just a way to cash in on a popular video game franchise, because he wants to buy a new car?

No, he's keeping public relations.

"Well, let's see... A work of fiction that I spent a goodly amount of time and effort writing, that I am strongly invested in as an author;" - FACT: he worked on it for a long time.

"do I think it's worth the cover price? Of course I bloody do." - He worked on it for a long time and if you are going to read it he wants your money for his effort. Either in fair trade or for greed.

"YMMV, of course, but I don't write stuff or work on projects that I don't care about, irrelevant of their popularity, success or lack thereof." - He cares about the project, being invested in it for such a long time, for whatever reason, monetary or delusional.

Not once does he actually say how he feels about the work. Nor does he ever say he thinks it will be a success, or that he thinks it will be popular. He never says he was writing it for artistic reasons, as opposed to purely monetary reasons. He never says he is proud of the work, or that even he himself, would suggest someone read it. He never even says if it is worth reading... he only says that if you are going to read it, pay him.

Jerion
31st Dec 2010, 00:42
Wow. You're a cynical one, aren't you?

Red
31st Dec 2010, 01:35
Heh I guess someone doesn't have a date for New Year's eve :D

JMSwallow
2nd Jan 2011, 15:18
Firstly; Rindill the Red? Please don’t presume to speak for me or my work.


He's a writer, he has you in his element. What's he going to say? That he feels it isn't his best work? That he spent a lot of time on it but on reflection it didn't turn out very well? That, honestly, it's pretty much on par or worse than the rest of the crowded fantasy/sci-fi market? That it's just a way to cash in on a popular video game franchise, because he wants to buy a new car? No, he's keeping public relations.

It’s hard to know where to start with the sheer amount of wrong in this statement. I mean, for starters, I don’t even have a old car. And public relations are the job of other people, I just write stuff. To be honest, none of what you assume there is correct; but I get the impression you’re not going to let that stand in the way of voicing an opinion on a book that you won’t even be able to read for another couple of months.


"do I think it's worth the cover price? Of course I bloody do." - He worked on it for a long time and if you are going to read it he wants your money for his effort. Either in fair trade or for greed.

I did a job of work and expect to be paid for it. I don't consider that to be greedy.


"YMMV, of course, but I don't write stuff or work on projects that I don't care about, irrelevant of their popularity, success or lack thereof." - He cares about the project, being invested in it for such a long time, for whatever reason, monetary or delusional.

So you’re saying I only wrote this book because I was desperate for cash and/or mentally unbalanced?


Not once does he actually say how he feels about the work.

Yeah. Oh, wait, except where I did, in a reply to Pinky Powers a few pages back.

Here’s a quote:

I simply want to tell an engaging, thrilling story in a setting that I enjoy, and perhaps explore some of the aspects of that fictional world in a new medium.

You want more? Okay. Here’s how I feel about Icarus Effect. I’ve written a novel that I am pleased with (as are Del Rey Books, Eidos Montreal and Square Enix), something I enjoyed doing, something that I hope brings a little more detail to the Deus Ex world, something that I hope my readers will consider to be an engaging cyberpunk action thriller.


Nor does he ever say he thinks it will be a success, or that he thinks it will be popular. He never says he was writing it for artistic reasons, as opposed to purely monetary reasons. He never says he is proud of the work, or that even he himself, would suggest someone read it. He never even says if it is worth reading...

I don’t know if Icarus Effect will be a success, and I don’t know if it will be popular. I hope it will, but if I could predict that kind of thing, I’d be a millionaire. I’m not going to say “This will be the best THING EVARR!” because I like to let my work speak for itself.

Artistic reasons versus monetary reasons? Neither. Unless Icarus Effect is a monster bestseller (which would be great!) I’m not making a huge amount of money from writing this. Art? I’m not pretentious enough to consider my work to be art; I simply write fiction in worlds that I like. My reason for writing Icarus Effect is because I wanted to tell more stories about Deus Ex.

Am I proud of my work? Here's how you can tell. Everything I’ve written has two words on it - “James Swallow” - and I wouldn’t put my name on a piece of work I didn’t care about, or that I didn’t take pride in.

Is Icarus Effect worth reading? I think so, but then I wrote it, so I would say that.


he only says that if you are going to read it, pay him.

Because this is my job, and I like to think I’m pretty good at it.

FrankCSIS
2nd Jan 2011, 16:04
Multiquotes and a bit of bickering!

If you weren't already, you're officially one of us now ;)

Whatever opinion one might have about the concept of side books, you have to admit James has been more present and readily available than pretty much anyone else, and he's only partly related to this ordeal.

H.D.Case
2nd Jan 2011, 16:53
Sure is! For that alone he earned my respect. I am not sure why others did not even consider the idea.
Way to go, Mr James! :)

JCpies
2nd Jan 2011, 19:42
What if I take it out of a library, do you lose money?

FrankCSIS
2nd Jan 2011, 20:31
Here's a question for James, to change the mood (excuse the familiarity, I simply cannot type Mr Swallow without thinking of Flesh Gordon 2).

Even though the story seems to mainly be about entirely new protagonists, do you find it too restrictive to write a full novel set in a universe which isn't yours? I'm wondering because when it comes to pre-existing settings I would personally very much prefer to write short pieces, about the length and impact of a Lovecraft or Maupassant story.

JCpies
2nd Jan 2011, 21:14
Lots of people like fan-fiction, maybe it's like writing a fan... a fan.. a fan in universe. Or whatever it's called.

Rindill the Red
3rd Jan 2011, 03:04
Firstly; Rindill the Red? Please don’t presume to speak for me or my work.



It’s hard to know where to start with the sheer amount of wrong in this statement. I mean, for starters, I don’t even have a old car. And public relations are the job of other people, I just write stuff. To be honest, none of what you assume there is correct; but I get the impression you’re not going to let that stand in the way of voicing an opinion on a book that you won’t even be able to read for another couple of months.



I did a job of work and expect to be paid for it. I don't consider that to be greedy.



So you’re saying I only wrote this book because I was desperate for cash and/or mentally unbalanced?



Yeah. Oh, wait, except where I did, in a reply to Pinky Powers a few pages back.

Here’s a quote:


You want more? Okay. Here’s how I feel about Icarus Effect. I’ve written a novel that I am pleased with (as are Del Rey Books, Eidos Montreal and Square Enix), something I enjoyed doing, something that I hope brings a little more detail to the Deus Ex world, something that I hope my readers will consider to be an engaging cyberpunk action thriller.



I don’t know if Icarus Effect will be a success, and I don’t know if it will be popular. I hope it will, but if I could predict that kind of thing, I’d be a millionaire. I’m not going to say “This will be the best THING EVARR!” because I like to let my work speak for itself.

Artistic reasons versus monetary reasons? Neither. Unless Icarus Effect is a monster bestseller (which would be great!) I’m not making a huge amount of money from writing this. Art? I’m not pretentious enough to consider my work to be art; I simply write fiction in worlds that I like. My reason for writing Icarus Effect is because I wanted to tell more stories about Deus Ex.

Am I proud of my work? Here's how you can tell. Everything I’ve written has two words on it - “James Swallow” - and I wouldn’t put my name on a piece of work I didn’t care about, or that I didn’t take pride in.

Is Icarus Effect worth reading? I think so, but then I wrote it, so I would say that.



Because this is my job, and I like to think I’m pretty good at it.

I just trolled James Swallow! :nut:

No. I'm really sorry for my post. I hope you will be able to accept my apologies. :flowers:

I write some pointless posts sometimes without thinking...

I guess I felt like you were trying to dodge the question, and I was also wondering if the book really is worth picking up, or if you were just toeing the line between personal integrity and promoting your work for advertising purposes. So I was originally just going to post a short counter-point to your very "politically-correct" response... and I got sort of carried away.

I understand that you wrote it under contract, as a tie-in, and that that puts pressure on what you can do with it. Generally, I don't read fiction books unless they have been widely recognized as the very best or suggested to me by a friend whose opinion I trust, which would normally keep a book like yours off of my reading list. However, it being Deus Ex makes me very interested in looking at it, I just don't want to be disappointed... either with the book or the game itself.

Eh, it doesn't matter really. :hmm:

Thanks for all your hard work.:thumb:

Sorry again for my negative post. :flowers:

JCpies
3rd Jan 2011, 10:11
In the future I will tell my grandchildren, I started a mini flame war with JM Swallow.

JMSwallow
3rd Jan 2011, 14:12
What if I take it out of a library, do you lose money?

That all depends on what country you live in. In the UK and Ireland we have a thing called the public lending right, which basically means an author gets a little money each time someone takes their book out of a library (but not as much as if they'd bought a copy). So basically, yes, I lose money if you take it out of a non-UK/Irish library; but that's a small price to pay for supporting our public libraries and promoting reading.


Lots of people like fan-fiction, maybe it's like writing a fan... a fan.. a fan in universe. Or whatever it's called.

Don't confuse tie-in writing with fan fiction; they are in no way the same thing.

Tie-ins and novelizations are officially licenced and approved by the creators of the original material, and they're written by professional authors to a professional standard, and produced by real book publishers. Fan fiction is (typically) wish-fulfilment stories written by amateurs without any editorial oversight and made available on the internet. Comparing one to the other is like saying a peewee hockey team is the same as the NHL league champions.

El_Bel
3rd Jan 2011, 14:25
Well i have seen fan fiction work that is better then official work. Though it does not happen often, it is not unheard of.

JMSwallow
3rd Jan 2011, 14:30
Even though the story seems to mainly be about entirely new protagonists, do you find it too restrictive to write a full novel set in a universe which isn't yours?

Not in the slightest.

Think of it this way; say I was writing a novel set in Paris during the Second World War. I didn't invent that location or those historical events, so I'd have to research them to make sure the setting and tone was right for my story, whatever it might be. Writing a story set in the Deus Ex universe is no different, except that this is a fictional setting rather than a historical one.

Now, of course I'm restricted by the tropes and the confines of the world I'm writing in (so I can't tell a Deus Ex story where the hero stops J.C. Denton from being born, or which reveals that Bob Page is actually Elvis, for example) but that's no different from writing my hypothetical Paris/WW2 story (I can't have Hitler suddenly give up the whole 3rd Reich thing and go back to house painting).

Every story to some degree has to occur in a realm that uses rules and settings that are not wholly invented by the author. Some readers think that a novel based on a game-world (or a movie or TV universe) is somehow less 'creative' than an original one - but it's no different to the work done by dozens of television writers on ongoing shows, and if anything, it's often harder to tell a compelling, engaging story and still work inside a given "frame".

JCpies
3rd Jan 2011, 14:32
Don't confuse tie-in writing with fan fiction; they are in no way the same thing.

Tie-ins and novelizations are officially licenced and approved by the creators of the original material, and they're written by professional authors to a professional standard, and produced by real book publishers. Fan fiction is (typically) wish-fulfilment stories written by amateurs without any editorial oversight and made available on the internet. Comparing one to the other is like saying a peewee hockey team is the same as the NHL league champions.

Yes, most fan-fiction is pretty bad, and it often centres around the relationship which the 'writer' wants to make true..

What if an amateur author writes to a professional standard? What makes the professional standard? Obviously grammar, writing techniques that will grab the readers attention and creativity (depending on what you're writing, does tie-in work require less creativity because the premise and world is already there for you?).

Edit: Oops, you answered the creativity question about two minutes before.

JMSwallow
3rd Jan 2011, 14:54
Well i have seen fan fiction work that is better then official work. Though it does not happen often, it is not unheard of.

Well, yeah. Admittedly, not every single professional author is brilliant, and statisically speaking, some fan writers are going to be good. In fact, I know some of them are - among my writer colleagues are several who used to write fan fiction, and I'd certainly say it's a good place to practice your skills if you want to take a shot at writing as a career. But the point I'm making is that fan fiction is not in any way officially sanctioned; in fact, at it's an illegal use of copyrighted material.


What if an amateur author writes to a professional standard? What makes the professional standard? Obviously grammar, writing techniques that will grab the readers attention and creativity

What I personally consider to be "a professional standard" is first and foremost, good writing and the ability to tell a good story, understanding the nature of drama and so on. But it's more than just that; working in a professional arena also means being able to work productively with editors (and licence-holders, as we're talking about tie-ins), working well to deadlines and dealing with restrictions, not being a prima donna, etc... Generally, having a professional attitude to your work. Many of those are concerns that fan writers ignore.


depending on what you're writing, does tie-in work require less creativity because the premise and world is already there for you?

I don't think so. Like I said above to FrankCSIS - it's no different to the work done by dozens of television writers on ongoing shows, and if anything, it's often harder to tell a compelling, engaging story and still work inside a given "frame".

Think of it like a theatre - someone gives you some actors/roles, the set has been built and the costumes made, but you still need to have a story for them to hang on. That absolutely requires creativity.

Lady_Of_The_Vine
4th Jan 2011, 15:22
Thank you for your presence here, Mr Swallow. :cool:

JMSwallow
24th Jan 2011, 13:11
This came in the mail today: http://moblog.net/view/947382/deus-ex-icarus-effect

[FGS]Shadowrunner
24th Jan 2011, 16:17
http://img705.imageshack.us/img705/8667/deusexicaruseffect.jpg (http://img705.imageshack.us/i/deusexicaruseffect.jpg/)

That's exciting!

Moorpheusl9
24th Jan 2011, 22:10
Exciting :D

Preordered my copy over the weekend - I think it's the first time I've ever preordered a book. I wouldn't normally but hey, it's Deus Ex :D

deus ex fan
24th Jan 2011, 22:24
Shadowrunner;1557819']http://img705.imageshack.us/img705/8667/deusexicaruseffect.jpg (http://img705.imageshack.us/i/deusexicaruseffect.jpg/)

That's exciting!

i totally agree.It's certainly exciting.I admire the cover.A classic cyberpunk novel.

Rindill the Red
24th Jan 2011, 23:55
This came in the mail today: http://moblog.net/view/947382/deus-ex-icarus-effect

Woot!

H.D.Case
27th Jan 2011, 16:52
Woot!

BTW, why is this thread not sticky?

JCpies
27th Jan 2011, 21:12
Because of the sheer awesomeness of JM Swallow.

Jerion
27th Jan 2011, 21:37
http://www.emotiyou.com/galerie/films/aventure/retour-vers-le-futur//201005021507CPV.gif

Sticky? Where this thread is going, it doesn't need sticky.

luce
28th Jan 2011, 20:57
http://www.emotiyou.com/galerie/films/aventure/retour-vers-le-futur//201005021507CPV.gif

Sticky? Where this thread is going, it doesn't need sticky.
Got a feeling this threads going to get sticky either way :O

singularity
29th Jan 2011, 01:15
Based off of what I've read here in the last 10 pages, Mr. Swallow seems like a pretty stand-up guy (and doesn't seem to take **** from people either -- honest and straight forward). For that alone, I'll pick up a copy next month.

New cyberpunk from an author who doesn't mind getting in up to his neck with some of the hardest-to-please-fanboys (and girls) on the internet? I'll buy a ticket. I'll take the ride.

Best of luck to you James -- thanks for chatting with us.

JCpies
29th Jan 2011, 10:02
I have another question for JM Swallow.

Would you rather I;

A. Buy the book and not read it.
B. Borrow the book and read it.

Red
29th Jan 2011, 11:32
I want MY copy NAO! :)

JMSwallow
29th Jan 2011, 11:48
Based off of what I've read here in the last 10 pages, Mr. Swallow seems like a pretty stand-up guy (and doesn't seem to take **** from people either -- honest and straight forward). For that alone, I'll pick up a copy next month.

New cyberpunk from an author who doesn't mind getting in up to his neck with some of the hardest-to-please-fanboys (and girls) on the internet? I'll buy a ticket. I'll take the ride.

Best of luck to you James -- thanks for chatting with us.

Hey, thanks man. I'm just happy to be here...

JMSwallow
29th Jan 2011, 11:52
I have another question for JM Swallow.

Would you rather I;

A. Buy the book and not read it.
B. Borrow the book and read it.

Uh...

Why not, y'know, just buy a copy and then read it?

Or maybe, buy a copy and then borrow a copy and read that copy, thus keeping your copy in perfect condition? Or better still, buy two copies, read one and keep the other sealed in lucite.

El_Bel
29th Jan 2011, 11:59
I think he meant if you are more interested in money or being read. :p

For me this kind of question is like asking me if i prefer my right or my left leg to be cut off.

Rindill the Red
29th Jan 2011, 15:17
I have another question for JM Swallow.

Would you rather I;

A. Buy the book and not read it.
B. Borrow the book and read it.

I posed the exact same question, but not quite so elegantly. JM won't talk to me no more.

For some reason he always skirts the issue, when it's obvious to all of us that our estimation of him and his book would go way up if he just answered that money doesn't matter. Would it be a lie? Yes. But it's what people want to hear. So long as JM doesn't want the money, then we should all definitely purchase the book. Right? Because his total artistic integrity would ensure the quality of the book. But if he's just doing it for money then, why bother getting the book, you're just playing right into his hands.

El_Bel
29th Jan 2011, 15:31
I hope you are being sarcastic. What does wanting money for your work has to do with anything? I love making art. To the point that i become depressed when my art is not a masterpiece (unless i am doing it only for fun). But i would love to make money off my art as much as i want my art to be good. That doesn't make me a corporate ***** that only cares for money. And i am sure that is the case for James Swallow.

Rindill the Red
29th Jan 2011, 15:45
I hope you are being sarcastic. What does wanting money for your work has to do with anything? I love making art. To the point that i become depressed when my art is not a masterpiece (unless i am doing it only for fun). But i would love to make money off my art as much as i want my art to be good. That doesn't make me a corporate ***** that only cares for money. And i am sure that is the case for James Swallow.

What? I must have not good communication. I was pointing out the rather unrealistic and flawed assumptions behind the question.

El_Bel
29th Jan 2011, 15:56
Yeah, i understood that, but it wasn't completely obvious. Thats why i asked if you were sarcastic.

Jerion
29th Jan 2011, 16:32
What does wanting money for your work has to do with anything? I love making art. To the point that i become depressed when my art is not a masterpiece (unless i am doing it only for fun). But i would love to make money off my art as much as i want my art to be good. That doesn't make me a corporate ***** that only cares for money. And i am sure that is the case for James Swallow.

Well said. :thumb:

JMSwallow
29th Jan 2011, 19:33
I think he meant if you are more interested in money or being read.

I'm interested in money and being read. Like Indiana Jones, I want both fortune and glory.


But i would love to make money off my art as much as i want my art to be good. That doesn't make me a corporate ***** that only cares for money. And i am sure that is the case for James Swallow.

What he said.


For some reason he always skirts the issue, when it's obvious to all of us that our estimation of him and his book would go way up if he just answered that money doesn't matter. Would it be a lie? Yes. But it's what people want to hear. So long as JM doesn't want the money, then we should all definitely purchase the book. Right? Because his total artistic integrity would ensure the quality of the book. But if he's just doing it for money then, why bother getting the book, you're just playing right into his hands.

Oh, FFS...

What issue would that be? The one you've been on about since this thread began, pushing your flawed opinion that tie-in fiction is somehow less valid than real writing and driven only by mercenary intent?

And once again, you're trying to put words in my mouth. You can quit that right now.

I don't lie to my readership and I find your implication that I would to be insulting in the extreme.

I don't harp on about artistic integrity. I just do my work and let my readers make up their own minds.

And to be clear to anyone out there who is hard of thinking, let me reiterate this for the record once again. I wrote this book because I wanted to tell more Deus Ex stories, and get paid for doing so. See, that's kind of a win-win for me.

Any questions?