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super...
6th Jul 2010, 21:27
I love that there are so many books in the concept art for this game. no not because i'm some Luddite jank burger who thinks you haven't read something until you have smelt it. i imagine most reading, even today is done on screens.

I like the books because I imagine a future where the only place you can keep a secret is on paper. i also like books because even today printing a book is so cheap, you can even print on demand. i can just imagine how easy it will be to get books made in the future, perhaps desk top printers will be fully operational binding machines.

But they are probably there because the art director was like, "make this room cluttered" and some dude drew a bunch of books so it would be cluttered.

why do you think these mech aug people would read bound books?

jjc
6th Jul 2010, 21:56
why do you think these mech aug people would read bound books?

They weren't born augmented, and as far as I can glean from what's been released about the story, Adam has only recently been converted.

pringlepower
6th Jul 2010, 22:02
Really this tells nothing, but the art director did say Adam was designed to be the kind of guy "who can kick your ass but then go home and read a good book". So who knows

super...
6th Jul 2010, 23:45
Really this tells nothing, but the art director did say Adam was designed to be the kind of guy "who can kick your ass but then go home and read a good book". So who knows

well yeah this is just baseless speculation, i think it's just neat to see so much of an outmoded tech like the codex hanging around people's rooms, would be nice to hear how print made a comeback in their fiction.

super...
6th Jul 2010, 23:48
They weren't born augmented, and as far as I can glean from what's been released about the story, Adam has only recently been converted.

I think he starts the game without mech augs,

my point is books a going out of fashion QUICKLY in our own time period, so why would people like Adam have so many books, when he could likely find all that information on his sunglasses.

pringlepower
6th Jul 2010, 23:57
I think he starts the game without mech augs,

my point is books a going out of fashion QUICKLY in our own time period, so why would people like Adam have so many books, when he could likely find all that information on his sunglasses.

He gets his arms cut off and mech augs installed in a plot event early in the game.

Well, other than the game having a nouveau-renaissance art style? Maybe in a time of great and controversial change people are turning back to antiquated themes like books, soft chairs, and a nice game of chess for comfort. Like how in a time of great and controversial video game change people turn to really old games and ***** about third-person cover.

Just kidding.

jjc
7th Jul 2010, 00:10
my point is books a going out of fashion QUICKLY in our own time period,

Don't particularly see the reality of this. I believe print news and magazines are suffering. And perhaps less people are reading nowadays, but every bookstore I frequent is often crowded and bestsellers are still moving a lot of units.

Shralla
7th Jul 2010, 03:16
Well I don't know about anybody else, but I'm hoping for readable books like the first game.

super...
7th Jul 2010, 04:23
oh it would be such a tease is you could not read those books,

pringlepower
7th Jul 2010, 05:00
oh it would be such a tease is you could not read those books,

to be especially cruel the books would be readable, but would all have the same text:

Got You!
By Jean-Francois Dugas

"No book for you!"

rhalibus
7th Jul 2010, 06:06
I don't think it would be too difficult to have every book in the game contain some content; text takes up very little space...

Kodaemon
7th Jul 2010, 06:21
my point is books a going out of fashion QUICKLY in our own time period

I'm so unfashionable then... :o

Fluffis
7th Jul 2010, 06:36
I'm so unfashionable then... :o

You and me both... I barely have time to finish one book before I start reading the next one.

But I guess it's true what Egon Spengler said: Print is dead.

On topic: I think one of the cooler aspects of DX was that in the middle of this high-tech conspiracy game, you could take the time to read a passage from a book. Or follow the world's progress in a newspaper.

If we can't read books in HR, I'll be very disappointed.

super...
7th Jul 2010, 07:15
my point is books are going out of fashion QUICKLY in our own time period,

i knew some people would take issue and thats cool. but think hard about it, the books that sell well today are of a much narrower spectrum then decades past, i don't think my mom has bought a cook book in YEARS she gets recipes on line (she is NOT tech savvy), why would i need to buy a repair manual for my car when i can easily check forums and find people having the same trouble i am. same deal with game guides, they are more about artwork and fandom these days then actually helping you when you get stuck in a game. all of these books are still published today they are just less prominent then used to be. it's a trend i think will continue as devices get better and cheaper

the last edge print had was it's crazy high resolution, things like the new iPhone display do much to bridge that gap.

so i think the inclusion of books in the future is neat, i hope they are full of secrets.

Fluffis
7th Jul 2010, 08:01
but think hard about it, the books that sell well today are of a much narrower spectrum then decades past, i don't think my mom has bought a cook book in YEARS she gets recipes on line (she is NOT tech savvy), why would i need to buy a repair manual for my car when i can easily check forums and find people having the same trouble i am.

... and you bring up two styles of books that have some of the most narrow spectrums of them all as evidence? Cook books and tech manuals?

I think JK Rowling, Paulo Coelho and Dan Brown would take issue with bestsellers having a narrower spectrum today.

pringlepower
7th Jul 2010, 08:07
i knew some people would take issue and thats cool. but think hard about it, the books that sell well today are of a much narrower spectrum then decades past, i don't think my mom has bought a cook book in YEARS she gets recipes on line (she is NOT tech savvy), why would i need to buy a repair manual for my car when i can easily check forums and find people having the same trouble i am. same deal with game guides, they are more about artwork and fandom these days then actually helping you when you get stuck in a game. all of these books are still published today they are just less prominent then used to be. it's a trend i think will continue as devices get better and cheaper

the last edge print had was it's crazy high resolution, things like the new iPhone display do much to bridge that gap.

so i think the inclusion of books in the future is neat, i hope they are full of secrets.

Nothing like the cool and crispy feel of paper on your fingertips.

Even if it does kill the trees.

Fluffis
7th Jul 2010, 08:09
Nothing like the cool and crispy feel of paper on your fingertips.

Even if it does kill the trees.

Agreed. No screen can replace that feeling. Actually turning a page, instead of pressing a "PgDn" key (or similar)... I'll choose turning a page any day.

Kodaemon
7th Jul 2010, 08:20
Funny thing: one of the books in printed form I read this year was Douglas Rushkoff's Cyberia: Life in the Trenches of Cyberspace, available for free in electronic form straight from the author's website. (http://www.rushkoff.com/downloadables/cyberiabook/)

MaxxQ1
7th Jul 2010, 16:36
Funny thing: one of the books in printed form I read this year was Douglas Rushkoff's Cyberia: Life in the Trenches of Cyberspace, available for free in electronic form straight from the author's website. (http://www.rushkoff.com/downloadables/cyberiabook/)

If you go out and buy the new book (Mission of Honor) in David Weber's Honor Harrington series, it has a cd enclosed with all but a couple of the previous books in electronic form, as well as e-copies of other books he's written. I think it totals something like 15-20 books included on the cd.

Also, if you'd like to try some other books/series from Baen Books (publishers of the Honorverse stuff), you can hit the Baen Free Libary and choose from quite a few.

Eric Flint, who has his own books there, as well as being a co-author with Weber on several Honorverse books, has a nice writeup about why Baen started the Free Library, and why, in the long run, it actually doesn't hurt the author(s).

http://www.baen.com/library/defaultTitles.htm

The link goes to the list of available free ebooks. Click on "Home" if you want to read the Flint writeup.

Many people at Baen's Bar (a message board for discussing Baen's authors books and other subjects) will purchase an e-copy of a book, and then, when the dead tree version comes out, purchase that as well. Myself, I'm a traditionalist and will always buy dead tree versions. On the other hand, I *do* have a couple titles in e-form, including The Man Who Was Thursday.

TBH, I don't think dead tree printing will ever go out of style completely. Even Star Trek has print books (although many would be considered antiques even by our own 21st century standards), and I think, for the most part, people *want* to hold a physical book. There's nothing quite like the smell and feel of a fresh off the presses book, and even moreso the feel of a many-times-read book that has gotten a bit dog-eared after years of reading.

So yeah, I really hope there are readable books in DX:HR, and maybe even something like The Man Who Was Thursday, where a public domain book has been put into the game and relates to what is going on in Adam's world.

super...
7th Jul 2010, 20:47
... and you bring up two styles of books that have some of the most narrow spectrums of them all as evidence? Cook books and tech manuals?

I think JK Rowling, Paulo Coelho and Dan Brown would take issue with bestsellers having a narrower spectrum today.

the successful books are in the narrower spectrum, ie books for entertainment.

Ashpolt
7th Jul 2010, 21:33
But I guess it's true what Egon Spengler said: Print is dead.

The fact that he said that 26 years ago should say something. :P

Totally agree with those hoping that printed media never stops: I'm currently reading Atlas Shrugged, which is an absolutely massive book (564,946 words according to amazon.com) and I just could not imagine reading that much on a kindle or similar. I fully appreciate their convenience, and I can definitely see myself getting one somewhere down the line for reading shorter novels, but anything over 400 pages or so of normal sized font I'd have to go hard copy.

Fluffis
7th Jul 2010, 21:39
the successful books are in the narrower spectrum, ie books for entertainment.

Is "entertainment" narrower than "cooking" or "car manuals"...? Eh. Did you really think that through?

Kodaemon
7th Jul 2010, 21:43
Tell me about it, Ash. I'm reading through House of Leaves, which is not only 600 something pages, but also, well, yeah. (http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/d/d9/HouseOfLeavesPage134.gif) No way I would read something like that in electronic form.

The only time I use electronic versions of books is when I can't find a physical copy, or when I want to find quotes quickly.

FrankCSIS
7th Jul 2010, 22:14
Maybe it's a local thing, but cook books in Quebec are more diverse and available than ever before. My brother's main client is the biggest library chain in the province, and their model is based on the biggest library chain in the country, both featuring nearly a quarter of an entire floor to cook books and about one eight of their giant floors to do it yourself manuals. Throw in another quarter of a floor for travel books, info which you can also find online anywhere. Those books are all extremely good sellers.

Canadian Tire carries repair handbooks for pretty much any car model in circulation, and many of them are almost always out of print.

The fact is that while most of the information is available online, when you need to cover one topic in depth, a book or two on the subject is more practical than scattered online sources. When you wish to explore or discover something new, or something broad and general, the net is superior nine times out of time, because the browsing is ever more effificent.

Also consider that while I find authors through the net, I get their books in dead copies. I reckon most people do that.

Fluffis
7th Jul 2010, 23:16
The fact that he said that 26 years ago should say something. :P


Exactly. ;)

Daedalus Ciarán
7th Jul 2010, 23:35
People who read books, and I mean read them regularly, are bookophiles. We love books, not just because of the story they contain, but because of the smell of a freshly opened page, the feel and texture of the page, and the colour of the print on the paper. Just to give you an example; a couple of years ago I wanted to read Dracula. So I went into the bookshop and had a look around. There were three editions, one Penguin Classics version, and an Oxford version, both paperbacks with fairly generic hazy paintings of nondescript monsters on the cover. They were €3-€4. I picked the €10 hard back book with the blood red cover and black hardback with deep red script. It's all about the mood.

You can't read a gothic horror book from a computer! It kills the atmosphere. Not to mention the light from the computer gets quite tiring on the eyes after a while. Books will never go out of style, though perhaps newspapers and some current affairs magazines will. Frankly, everytime someone mentions the term 'print is dead' I just look on the trains and buses at all the people with newspapers and magazines and wonder if it's not just a large minority whose cultural interests mean there is no inherent value for them in print media.

But on topic, books in DX:HR please. It wouldn't make sense to leave them out. I don't think they will though, considering the images we saw in the second teaser trailer of Adam's apartment. Though they are anatomy books, so perhaps there'll be less fiction books available and more technical ones.

Fluffis
7th Jul 2010, 23:39
People who read books, and I mean read them regularly, are bookophiles. We love books, not just because of the story they contain, but because of the smell of a freshly opened page, the feel and texture of the page, and the colour of the print on the paper. Just to give you an example; a couple of years ago I wanted to read Dracula. So I went into the bookshop and had a look around. There were three editions, one Penguin Classics version, and an Oxford version, both paperbacks with fairly generic hazy paintings of nondescript monsters on the cover. They were €3-€4. I picked the €10 hard back book with the blood red cover and black hardback with deep red script. It's all about the mood.


It's the same reason the Collector's Edition of the Dragonlance Chronicles (beneath the dust-jacket) is night-blue with silver writing. (For those who haven't read it: it's the distinguishing mark of a very powerful spell-book). That kind of thing just adds another level.

I could never replace that kind of thing with a JPG at the beginning of a file.

super...
8th Jul 2010, 00:21
Codex! the codex is a terrible idea, with it's threaded binding, covers and pages! who needs it! my scrolls are much better, your never going to take my smooth handle bars away from my texts. With the codex you can just flip to any page you want! look how easy it is to take something out of context when your not scrolling to it. The codex is a rotten thing.

super...
8th Jul 2010, 00:36
over time formats change. many of you are making fine points. indeed printed books are still around and will be for some time, however sooner then you think the choice between digital and print will come more frequently.

the rpg industry is full of companies that sell both digital and print editions of the same book. some download sites are already making plans to add POD options for purchases that were once only digital. print or digital will eventually become a choice.

i just spent an afternoon organizing my bookshelf. if could trade that entire bookself and replace it with a digital with a device like a higher res iPad i would do it in a second. it will be a while before i can make that trade but we get closer to it every day.

tartarus_sauce
11th Jul 2010, 03:45
I like the books because I imagine a future where the only place you can keep a secret is on paper.


That's a great point, super. You see the same thing in 1984. In a world where even your thoughts are subject to surveillance (and given the whispers of Adam's mind control augmentation, that seems relevant), books would be the only safe place to keep sensitive information. Electronic media is so easily accessed and altered. The same issue was also brought up in Ghost in the Shell: Stand Alone Complex.

I also think books might become more valuable as they become less and less common. A digital book would be the fraction of the cost, and with low-cost e-readers being everywhere, books would be a real luxury. Books would be a status-statement; having the money to purchase them from an increasingly small and specialized publishing industry would put one in a rarified atmosphere. Plus, consider the space! As America re-urbanizes, space in mega-cities would become increasingly precious. Having the space necessary to store books would also become a way of expressing wealth and power.

Pretentious Old Man.
12th Jul 2010, 16:29
I'm not big into books.







(Seriously, NO-ONE thought of saying that?)

Anyhow, it's actually a lie, I am "big into" books, they were one of the highlights of the original. Despite many of the original DX's books being composed of what I would normally dismiss as "avant-garde, new age rubbish", I actually enjoyed them. GK Chesterton's snippets here and there made a witty commentary to the story, and the backstory of newspapers was invaluable. One newspaper article said that Professors from Oxford, who regulated the Thames barrier, could not understand why New York kept on flooding, and the article made it fairly clear that MJ12 were behind it. Brilliant.

WildcatPhoenix
12th Jul 2010, 21:22
Tell me about it, Ash. I'm reading through House of Leaves, which is not only 600 something pages, but also, well, yeah. (http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/d/d9/HouseOfLeavesPage134.gif) No way I would read something like that in electronic form.

The only time I use electronic versions of books is when I can't find a physical copy, or when I want to find quotes quickly.

Bloody amazing book, House of Leaves. And definitely an experience you want to have with paper in your hands (I'm not sure how a Kindle version would work, with all the misdirection, footnotes, and changing text direction Danielewski throws in there).

Ashpolt
12th Jul 2010, 21:54
Forgot to mention: I looked up House of Leaves after your post, Kodaemon, and it's now firmly next on my "to read" list as soon as I finish Atlas Shrugged (getting there!) because it sounds really intruiging. I'd've never heard of it if it weren't for your post, so thanks!

You may have to apologise to Aldous Huxley and Robert Harris though, as it has displaced Brave New World and Fatherland for now!

drokal
4th Sep 2015, 06:53
Hi all, I think book is the best friend that i read in my childhood and realized that now.There are different kinds of man and even a man who is very closest may be turned into an enemy because of some money. But if I am able to do my best friend.....However that is not relevant I am going to include my personal matter here. Sorry for that. Actually i am now reading many books such as drama,novel and grammar etc.