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Dead-Eye
27th Jun 2010, 05:45
I wonder what the world would be like if MJ12 had succeeded in their task of world domination. I often thought that the 3 endings of the original didn't imply any real ending to Deus Ex in terms of cannon. As such there was no reason something completely different could not have happened. At lest this is what I was hoping from Ion Storm in that they would have 3 different sequels each based off the 3 different endings. Thus the lake of numbered naming convention in the games. I.E. Deus Ex: Invisable War, Deus Ex: Human Revolution instead of Deus Ex 2 and Deus Ex 3.

I'm hoping that Deus Ex 3's ending will stretch the lines of this box to the point that no one can really suggest any 'true' cannon to Deus Ex anymore. Ideally only one of the endings in Human Revolution should lead it's path to the original story. The other 2+ could lead to places in time that may not resemble the world of Deus Ex but only parallel it. Best of all, when EM makes Deus Ex 4, they could make it take place after one of the different endings and miss Deus Ex altogether. This ultimately puts 'true' cannon in the fans hand where each individual decides what is and isn't true. Because by all means one can say Invisible War was Cannon, but is it really?

One such game, unrelated to Human Revolution, could take place in a world where JC Denton failed to stop MJ12 from taking over the world. I often thought that it would take off from the Dark Age ending; MJ12 had a backup in place for the Aquinas Hub and all JC manged to do was kill Page and blow up a hole in the ground, shutting down communications until MJ12 turned on the backup a few minutes later. In such a game, Walton would have survived his encounter with JC and become the world's benevolent dictator after he kills JC in the intro. 20 years later JC Denton wakes up in some kind research lab in Antarctica, turns out to be a Denton resurrection machine but you find that out until later. The game its self would consist of JC Denton traveling around in this world that looks like what would happen if MJ12 succeeded; People living in smart growth cambers with MIB patrolling the halls, people always going missing without anyone really noticing, experimented on, subjected to all types of mind games, drugs, etc. And in such a world JC would be the only one who can stop it because he's suppose to be dead. Ultimately ending with JC killing Walton in some kind of epic boss battle (Like the original concept for the boss battle between JC and Page that was cut). But it would be the filler missions that make the game great; Busting Paul out of some kind of MJ12 prsion, meeting the brainwashed masses and trying to get their support ageist king Walton, etc.

At anyrate whenever I get upset because Human Revolution looks too exploited or when I think about IW, I just think about this and relax. I don't need to worry about who decides what they think cannon is because it is us who decides cannon on the individual level.

jtr7
27th Jun 2010, 05:51
People will just choose what they can live with as "true" canon, but I'd suspect a lot of those who play all the games will hold DX1 as the center from which all else is optional, which is closer to the truth of the situation anyway. Without original design docs and strict adherence to intent, everything else becomes speculative fan-fiction, and as long as it does the job of good storytelling and doesn't contradict the "wrong" things, it will be welcome.

Dead-Eye
27th Jun 2010, 19:56
If EM releases an SDK I totally want to make this into a mod... hopefully it will go better then the last time I tried to make a mod.

ChfMojoRising
27th Jun 2010, 20:00
I have a feeling that no matter what course of action EM makes in regard to this topic the only thing we can be certain about is that there will be a very vocal group of people who hate it. lol
Multiple possible cannons are a tricky thing~

Mindmute
27th Jun 2010, 22:14
I have a feeling that no matter what course of action EM makes in regard to this topic the only thing we can be certain about is that there will be a very vocal group of people who hate it. lol
Multiple possible cannons are a tricky thing~

And totally unnecessary. Like the OP was suggesting, one of the endings could lead to the canon outcome we already know and all others could lead to parallel outcomes. The canon one is only required for continuity purposes, as long as that one is present and attainable, any other sensible ending would be fine aswell.

off-topic: I'm starting to dislike all the backhanded comments about "vocal groups". People are allowed to have strong opinions, especially regarding a series that they've accompanied for a long time. And before you mentally toss me into that same group, keep in mind I've been abstaining from nearly all discussion on these boards for ages.

Back on topic:
I'd like that idea too, Dead-Eye, I was actually a bit disappointed when DX didn't give me the option to side with MJ12 in the first place ;)

jkruse
27th Jun 2010, 22:29
I like Dead-Eye's take, the multiple endings of Deus Ex could potentially lead to very different games, regardless of which you prefer they'd all be interesting settings. Hopefully HR will be as Mindmute said, have one ending that absolutely leads to Deus Ex and others that either lead elsewhere or could potentially lead to Deus Ex, just more indirectly.

On another note, I hate to be a dick, but a 'cannon' blows things up, we're talking about 'canon'.

Ashpolt
27th Jun 2010, 23:42
Can I point out something that seems to me bleedingly obvious?

Adam isn't mentioned in the original Deus Ex. At all. As such, it's easy to have multiple ending that all feed into the original game, and which can all be considered canon: Adam helps found UNATCO, Adam helps found the NSF, Adam joins the illuminati, etc etc. As long as he's dead and out of the picture before Deus Ex starts, we don't have any problem.

Sure, it'll give his story less "impact," because whichever side he joins we'll know that, ultimately, the fate of these organisations is not going to be decided by him. But it can still work within canon.

hem dazon 90
28th Jun 2010, 02:22
good idea OP

Dead-Eye
28th Jun 2010, 02:39
@Ashpolt: Well that's what I thought the logical turn of event's would lead to in Human Revolution. Adam would be left a ghost in history, never mentioned in the first game because he's dead or in hiding and the canon of DX would just go on without him. Yet to me it seems EM wants to make a signature character, like Solid Snake is to MGS or Mario is to... well Mario. Having this character just disappear after this game would sabotage any efforts to try and establish Adam in this fashion.

So to me it seems that if Eidos Montreal is going to establish Adam as Deus Ex's main protagonist then they are already going to mess around with canon (Not like they haven't already) and this is going to make people mad. Yet the way I see it is if Deus Ex is about non-linearity then why not have non-linearity in canon. Multiple paths could lead to multiple games all branching off from different happenings in the games they are based off of. And thus there can exist a sequel to Human Revaluation and a sequel to Deus Ex that don't fallow the same canon but are both directives of Deus Ex in general. This way we can have more games that aren't ether based off Invisible War or a prequel to Deus Ex.

Fluffis
28th Jun 2010, 02:44
And thus there can exist a sequel to Human Revaluation and a sequel to Deus Ex that don't fallow the same canon but are both directives of Deus Ex in general. This way we can have more games that aren't ether based off Invisible War or a prequel to Deus Ex.

Deus Ex: Middle Ages, Deus Ex: Present Day, Deus Ex: Tactics, Deus Ex: Total War and Mario Ex for the kiddies. Oh joy! :lol:

Dead-Eye
28th Jun 2010, 22:05
Deus Ex: Middle Ages, Deus Ex: Present Day, Deus Ex: Tactics, Deus Ex: Total War and Mario Ex for the kiddies. Oh joy! :lol:

Mario Ex? Is that a game where we play a guy who thinks he's Mario but takes zyme instead of shrooms and beats people to death with a hammer?

pringlepower
28th Jun 2010, 23:15
Deus Ex: Middle Ages, Deus Ex: Present Day, Deus Ex: Tactics, Deus Ex: Total War and Mario Ex for the kiddies. Oh joy! :lol:

Now wouldn't Deus Ex: Middle Ages give you everything you want in a sequel

About the Templars and Illuminati
Conspiracy! (since everybody's an uneducated dumbass)
First person, exciting melee combat
Stealth
Ranged combat with multiple... arrows per weapon
Literary references
Health... poultices
Skill system

Of course the augs will have to be worked in through... magic?

Deus_Ex_Machina
28th Jun 2010, 23:22
Now wouldn't Deus Ex: Middle Ages give you everything you want in a sequel

About the Templars and Illuminati
Conspiracy! (since everybody's an uneducated dumbass)
First person, exciting melee combat
Stealth
Ranged combat with multiple... arrows per weapon
Literary references
Health... poultices
Skill system

Of course the augs will have to be worked in through... magic?

There already is a Deus Ex: Middle Ages. (http://siliconsasquatch.files.wordpress.com/2009/05/thief_the_dark_project_boxcover.jpg) :D

Dead-Eye
28th Jun 2010, 23:51
There already is a Deus Ex: Middle Ages. (http://siliconsasquatch.files.wordpress.com/2009/05/thief_the_dark_project_boxcover.jpg) :D
lol. I was just about to say: Isn't that thief?

Although a Thiefish game set in Deus Ex Canon during this time frame would be interesting. Call it something like Deus Ex: Origins of the Illuminati or just Deus Ex: Origins for short.

SquidPirate
30th Jun 2010, 01:58
I agree with Ash here. The logical way to do this is that Adam melts into history... a mover and a shaker in the shadows.

Consider:

We never find out all the names of MJ-12. He could be one.

We sure as Hades don't know all the people in the Illuminati.

We don't know all the people involved with the NSF, beyond Leon Woods and that Decker-Young duo. :)



While it is a fair point made above that Adam will likely be a signature character for EM, I can think of at least one way to keep his character going without threatening continuity. Understand I'm not necessarily advocating this, just pointing out how it could go down:

- Cryonics is established in the DX universe. He could "wake up" for a second adventure during the same time as the original DX. JC wasn't the only one fighting, remember: I recall reading in-game newspapers about riots in London, Moscow, etc. Maybe Adam is a bad*ss Rip Van Winkle, having his own parallel story while JC is battling in NY, Hong Kong, and Paris.

It actually reminds me of Resident Evil 2, when you played a second character and were following in the footsteps of your original character... never crossing paths directly, but involved in precisely the same adventure. Parallax, not paradox.


fnord