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K^2
26th Jun 2010, 00:38
So with all these nifty augmentations, there is always an inherent choice. There are too many options and only so much room. We've already seen arms that turn into blades and arms that turn into guns. Obviously, the same arm can't do both. Even if you maybe can have one arm of each, dual swords is certainly out. So you have to choose.

But do you, really? While you are having your old, fleshy, almost useless arms chopped off, and new ones installed, why not go for an extra set? Haven't you always wanted a second pair of arms? Now you can have them. And not only do you gain ability to hold more groceries, you also can have the guns and the swords.

So maybe for Adam it would be out of character. I can buy that. Holding on to humanity and all that. But we've seen so many augmented characters by now. Ones that obviously don't give a damn that they don't look quite human anymore. And if you think of all these weirdos that split their tongues and inject strange growths under their skin just to look different, in that mech-augmented world, they'd be having a parade. So where are they? People with many arms, reversed joints, and other positively inhuman appendages? It would seem to be a waste to go into this whole theme of "What makes us human" and not to explore that aspect.

Oh, and sorry about the pun.

jtr7
26th Jun 2010, 00:40
Hahaha!

Dr. Octopus with each arm an arsenal of whatever! And with extra legs and tank treads and hydrogen fuel cells and solar panels and blast shields (and wiper blades) and extra eyes on extendible stalks! Also, a waste-matter handling and recycling unit so one never has to worry about relieving one's self when circumstances make it tricky or terribly inconvenient.



Just drop them all with an EMP bomb.

Ghostface
26th Jun 2010, 00:49
I would love to see this

K^2
26th Jun 2010, 00:49
- You'll never defeat me!
*Bzzzzt*
- Well @#$%!

Tecman
26th Jun 2010, 00:51
I'd love to see mechanical-looking monstrosities of man-meets-machine, especially in a game that they claim is also about the values/horrors of Transhumanism (depends in which camp you are), but only if they'd be limited in number and not presented as standard video-game cannon fodder. :) Same goes for early first-generation augs.

Angel-A
26th Jun 2010, 00:51
I really want to see this, please tell me we'll see this.

Ashpolt
26th Jun 2010, 01:04
I'd be happy to see something like this....to a degree. What I don't want is the Deus Ex equivalent of Bioshock's final boss, which pretty much went "Any trace of subtlety? Pfft, out the window! People just want a huge thing to shoot!" One of the great things about DX and IW is that, at the top of the ladder, it's still just a man. A man-tank monstrosity, while very bluntly demonstrating the potential horrors of augmentation, would be too Quake 2 / 4 for my liking.

But stuff like reversed joints, feet with opposable thumbs, even extra arms (to a degree) sounds great. So long as it's got a sensible purpose, I'm all for showing the non-human possibilities of augmentations. Or should that be extra-human?

Pretentious Old Man.
26th Jun 2010, 01:06
I'd be happy to see something like this....to a degree. What I don't want is the Deus Ex equivalent of Bioshock

fix'd. :o

Fluffis
26th Jun 2010, 01:19
I'd be happy to see something like this....to a degree. What I don't want is the Deus Ex equivalent of Bioshock's final boss, which pretty much went "Any trace of subtlety? Pfft, out the window! People just want a huge thing to shoot!"


TBH, the idea of "boss fights" in general, sends a shiver down my spine. I hate the concept. Always have. This is one of the reasons I love DX so much. All the "bosses" can be dealt with in short order, and sometimes humiliating them for all their posturing.



But stuff like reversed joints, feet with opposable thumbs, even extra arms (to a degree) sounds great. So long as it's got a sensible purpose, I'm all for showing the non-human possibilities of augmentations. Or should that be extra-human?

This would be nice to see. Maybe have just a side-quest thing (or just an area of the game), where you meet people whose search for a "perfect body", has turned them into something to be pitied. Outcasts. It could be nice, in a game where the idea is that you are relying on becoming more and more augmented. Could be a nice contrast.

xsamitt
26th Jun 2010, 01:21
4 Arms?No Thanks.I can just imagine the grief EM would get if they did anything so silly as that.

Keiichi81
26th Jun 2010, 01:27
The only problem with multiple pairs of arms is that the human brain isn't wired correctly to handle them. It's like, if someone just surgically grafted a monkey tail onto you, you'd have no idea how to control it; it would just sit there limp and useless. At best, you'd probably be an uncoordinated, clumsy oaf with a second pair of arms. I'm not sure someone could ever effectively learn to use something like that. It takes people years as is simply to relearn how to use their existing limbs after being paralyzed for a time, and in most cases they still never regain complete motor control.

ChfMojoRising
26th Jun 2010, 01:27
That's what extensions/mods to the brain are for ;)

Jerion
26th Jun 2010, 01:34
I'd be happy to see something like this....to a degree. What I don't want is the Deus Ex equivalent of Bioshock's final boss, which pretty much went "Any trace of subtlety? Pfft, out the window! People just want a huge thing to shoot!" One of the great things about DX and IW is that, at the top of the ladder, it's still just a man. A man-tank monstrosity, while very bluntly demonstrating the potential horrors of augmentation, would be too Quake 2 / 4 for my liking.

But stuff like reversed joints, feet with opposable thumbs, even extra arms (to a degree) sounds great. So long as it's got a sensible purpose, I'm all for showing the non-human possibilities of augmentations. Or should that be extra-human?

Maybe it is a bit Quake-y, but Barrett isn't the big-dog enemy. He's a major opponent but not the lead guy. He's a big, brutish, tough-as-all-hell paramilitary henchman. And he fits that role almost perfectly, IMO.

TheYouthCounselor
26th Jun 2010, 02:10
All the prostethics and mechanical augmentations we've seen so far mimic the look and feel of existing human limbs. The spinning hand was the first step forward. Why limit ourselves to simply being human?

Why not give someone ungulate or satyr like legs (http://superpunch.blogspot.com/2009/04/bionic-satyr-stilt-legs-and-more.html) to sustain maximum speed? Modern prosthetics serve single purposes, and amputees must swap limbs for different functions. One leg for another. Why stop at legs? You can attatch tentacles on a person, or treads, or other forms of locomotion. The nerve endings can be attatched directly to heavy machinery and can be controlled directly from the brain.

The processing power is already inherent in the mind. People are born with extra appendages that function fully. Human technology just has to catch up to harness the full power of human biology.

Tecman
26th Jun 2010, 02:49
Why not give someone ungulate or satyr like legs (http://superpunch.blogspot.com/2009/04/bionic-satyr-stilt-legs-and-more.html) to sustain maximum speed?

I'd recommend you watch the trailer again, the Uncloaking Woman doesn't have very "human-looking" legs - the closer to her feet you get, the weirder they look. :)

Fluffis
26th Jun 2010, 03:02
No, these gams don't look very human at all.
Now, how the hell did I miss that?

http://img687.imageshack.us/img687/4476/satyrlegs.png

K^2
26th Jun 2010, 11:33
Maybe it is a bit Quake-y, but Barrett isn't the big-dog enemy. He's a major opponent but not the lead guy. He's a big, brutish, tough-as-all-hell paramilitary henchman. And he fits that role almost perfectly, IMO.
A new Gunther. Or rather old Gunther...

Yeah, he's supposed to be a tank. I'm sure the actual enemy behind-it-all will be much more subtle.

And I didn't notice that double-joint on the invisible-one either.

Ashpolt
26th Jun 2010, 13:38
Maybe it is a bit Quake-y, but Barrett isn't the big-dog enemy. He's a major opponent but not the lead guy. He's a big, brutish, tough-as-all-hell paramilitary henchman. And he fits that role almost perfectly, IMO.

Oh, I wasn't talking about Barrett. He's clunky, but he's just about on the right side of the man / machine divide. What I meant was that I don't want the final boss to be someone who's gone "IF I HAVE EVERY SINGLE AUG, YOU CAN'T POSSIBLY BEAT ME! HAHAHAHAHAHA!" and so is more a bit of skin stretched over a giant mass of metal than a man - which is what I meant by "the equivalent of Bioshock's end boss" ("IF I HAVE EVERY SINGLE PLASMID, YOU CAN'T POSSIBLY BEAT ME! HAHAHAHAHAHA!) IMO, the "fight" with Andrew Ryan in Bioshock was far, far, far more powerful and memorable than the end boss.

Kodaemon
26th Jun 2010, 13:42
Except it was half-ruined by making it a (first person) cutscene. It would have been much more powerful if you were still in control, but had no option of advancing other than whacking Ryan.

Ashpolt
26th Jun 2010, 13:53
I think in the context of the story, making it a non-interactive cutscene was entirely justified. It wouldn't have made much sense otherwise. Leaving you in control would've just left people frustrated that they had control, but no actual choice with it.

Kodaemon
26th Jun 2010, 14:08
Ah, but that's the point!

Ashpolt
26th Jun 2010, 14:17
If they'd given you full control though, you'd've just run round Ryan's office, realised there was nothing else to do, and done it out of frustration. Not fun.

I think a better way to do it would've been to give you limited control over the cutscene itself - so as Jack draws back the golf club, you can push the mouse in the opposite direction, and he'll struggle to lift it: but in the end his programming will win through, and he'll do it. It'd keep the focus on the task at hand, give the player a sense that he'd tried to fight it, but made the fact that he couldn't all the more powerful.

But still, returning to my original point: miles better than the end boss, even as a non-interactive cutscene.

Manho221
26th Jun 2010, 14:18
TBH, the idea of "boss fights" in general, sends a shiver down my spine. I hate the concept. Always have. This is one of the reasons I love DX so much. All the "bosses" can be dealt with in short order, and sometimes humiliating them for all their posturing.


Thank you, I always hated boss fights at the ends of levels etc. It is my dream that someday no game will have a "boss fight" and it will just become nostalgia.

Kodaemon
26th Jun 2010, 14:25
@Ash I get what you're saying, it's just that I think the player should perform the deed themselves. Otherwise, the whole meta-commentary the devs were aiming for falls flat (well, it still does since later you're still just running errands, only for Tenenbaum instead of Atlas).

My favourite comparison is with FEAR, where you have to kill the unarmed, kneeling Fettel to advance. Strong stuff right there.

EddieMorales
30th Oct 2013, 10:49
Hahaha!

Dr. Octopus with each arm an arsenal of whatever! And with extra legs and tank treads and hydrogen fuel cells and solar panel (http://www.shinesolar.net) and blast shields (and wiper blades) and extra eyes on extendible stalks! Also, a waste-matter handling and recycling unit so one never has to worry about relieving one's self when circumstances make it tricky or terribly inconvenient.



Just drop them all with an EMP bomb.

Everything seems to be bit extra.. Dr. Octopus is awesome character...

JCpies
30th Oct 2013, 12:35
I still don't understand why people sign up just to necropost.

Welcome to the forum?

Solid_1723
31st Oct 2013, 13:35
For a second there I thought K^2 was back...:(

Ashpolt
31st Oct 2013, 16:31
For a second there I thought K^2 was back...:(

If only. But even if he were to be unbanned, he's probably too busy curing cancer or inventing the ship that will take mankind beyond the edges of the solar system to come and talk vidyagaems with us anymore.

Ninjerk
3rd Nov 2013, 08:24
If only. But even if he were to be unbanned, he's probably too busy curing cancer or inventing the ship that will take mankind beyond the edges of the solar system to come and talk vidyagaems with us anymore.

Since he got banned and the game launched I've wondered if there were a way to track him down and keep in touch.