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AaronJ
23rd Jun 2010, 04:20
I just wanted to get an updated discussion going on the opinions of the story.

In my opinion, the music and overall tone of the E3 trailer were fantastic, and it was just what I was hoping for. The music sets up the game's broad scale while calling back on Alexander Brandon's Deus Ex soundtrack as well. As for the tone, I believe it perfectly captured everything the prequel could be. It sets the tone perfectly. This is the end of the world, at the high point of civilization and technology. It sets up the game to perfectly portray that after it's events, it's dystopia from then on.

But, the footage is what shook me. The incredibly cliche and cringe-worthy dialogue. And the window thing? It shakes the faith the trailer gave me.

tl;dr: trailers good but looks like we got ourselves a boy scout.

Opinions, GO!

Great_Ragnarok
23rd Jun 2010, 04:26
in terms of the story line, I think the prequel holds incredible promise.
being able to actually play through the events, that leads up to the miserable
dark world of deus ex 1 is going to be quite a ride. I would buy it just for the story(maybe).
--------
the footage shocked me as well, I personally didn't like the end cutscene of
jumping out of a window. The over the top action scenes doesn't seem right for
a deus ex game. just my opinion.

Intestinal Chaos
23rd Jun 2010, 04:34
I was pretty solid in my confidence that this would be an amazing game and worthy successor. I'm a little shaken by the new footage, but not thrown off. I'm betting the god awful dead body physics will be improved in a year's time, as well as graphics getting an all around boost. The only thing that really scares me is the horrible character of Barrett. I couldn't believe the stupid, formulaic lines coming out of his mouth.

"Well, lookee here.. we got a boy scout. Never thought you'd make it this far, but now it all ends here"

Ouch.

EDIT: However, the conversation system was top notch. I loved the flow of communication and the change of postures. That was something that puts me back in a confident move.

Barrett= an otherwise shoddy hiccup in a great developing game? Let's hope so. It's probably too late to remove him from the game now, but it doesn't stop me from hoping.

Fluffis
23rd Jun 2010, 04:41
The over the top action scenes doesn't seem right for
a deus ex game. just my opinion.

I definitely agree with this. At least the way I played DX, and IW, I tried my damnedest to not let these kinds of scenes happen at all. But if they did happen, I was not playing a major role in them it was because I let people duke it out themselves (hacking the bots at the shipyard, activating the defence system at Vandenberg).

Now I have to accept that they happen, because they're cut scenes. It just doesn't feel right.

And yeah, Barrett sounds very annoying. I like Adam's voice, and comments, so far though. Very Clint Eastwood. That's never a bad thing in an action hero. :)

Serendipitous
23rd Jun 2010, 05:20
Deus Ex was great because most of the story and events in the game are "hidden" in emails, datacubes, newspapers, optional conversations, etc. Some thing weren't even fully explained, which is a good thing when done right. Stories get dull when you've already heard everything and completely understand it. I'm getting the impression they're showing off the story in DXHR instead of being subtle about it. In an RPG game about conspiracies, you're supposed to feel confused about who to trust. Also, the first half of DX1 had a noir feeling (the later half felt more sci-fi). In noir, it's more dark and moody. It's more about complicated characters with hidden motivations than action and explosions. Maybe some characters in DXHR are supposed to be brutes, but that makes their dialog really dull. We need some complex characters too. I'd really like to see a femme fatale type character that isn't predictable or cliche, and a few characters not native to the genre.

Fluffis
23rd Jun 2010, 05:58
Deus Ex was great because most of the story and events in the game are "hidden" in emails, datacubes, newspapers, optional conversations, etc. Some thing weren't even fully explained, which is a good thing when done right. Stories get dull when you've already heard everything and completely understand it.

Agreed. Some of the best "Oh sh...!" moments in any game, have been in Deus Ex for me. Like just activating a news database, and seeing comments directed at yourself, or simply skewing your noble intentions into those of a terrorist. An action that is completely optional, but completely alters your perception of the game.

xcrcmiced
23rd Jun 2010, 06:17
the footage shocked me as well, I personally didn't like the end cutscene of
jumping out of a window. The over the top action scenes doesn't seem right for
a deus ex game. just my opinion.

Are we talking about the same deus ex where I blew up a boat and killed a giant robot with a NOTLightsaber while running around at super-speed?

On top of that, Adam's a Mech. The whole point of mechs is that they're more overt, more durable, and more action-y.

hem dazon 90
23rd Jun 2010, 06:23
Bad characters don't bother me too much

Lest we forget that the first Deus Ex had some pretty crappy characters too

Fluffis
23rd Jun 2010, 06:29
Are we talking about the same deus ex where I blew up a boat and killed a giant robot with a NOTLightsaber while running around at super-speed?


That's because you chose to play it that way. Here, there are cutscenes that everyone has to watch, no matter your playstyle, which are pure action.

Also, you didn't blow up the boat. You scuttled it. Blowing open a few weld points, and reversing the flow of the bilge pumps is hardly the same thing as blowing it up. The difference? Finesse.

xcrcmiced
23rd Jun 2010, 06:40
That's because you chose to play it that way. Here, there are cutscenes that everyone has to watch, no matter your playstyle, which are pure action.

Also, you didn't blow up the boat. You scuttled it. Blowing open a few weld points, and reversing the flow of the bilge pumps is hardly the same thing as blowing it up. The difference? Finesse.

Dude the boat is shaking and there explosions involved. I give no **** about the specifics.

If the scene in the demo bothers you? Where Adam tries to escape after realizing that Tong's goons had the bomb set on a suicidally short timer? Then I have to wonder what you're objecting to.

If you're objecting to the presence of such an over the top scene as mandatory, I'd point you at the scuttling of the freighter, destroying Versalife's Universal Constructor, etc. You destroy a lot of crap in DX, and you don't really have any choice about how to approach it, just how to approach getting to the point where you blow that stuff up.

If you're objecting to the way that Adam tries to escape... I can't really get it. What is he supposed to do? Walk out in an orderly fashion? There's a bomb he doesn't have the disarm code for about to go off.

Yeah, it's a cutscene now and that's different and that sucks. But cutscenes aren't going anywhere anytime soon. Personally I thought it was pretty awesome that his initial attempt to break out failed, and that that was pretty clever. I'd rather have a cutscene like that than Some ****ty retread of the level I just finished where I have to run out the same way I came in (or even worse, a COMPLETELY ARBITRARY DIFFERENT WAY that gets foisted on you for no reason) with a timer flashing at the top of the screen.

Shadowdagger
23rd Jun 2010, 06:56
I don't understand why so many people have problems with those cutscenes. I personally find them great. They may cut the gameflow a little bit but that doesn't bother me much.

Yeah, Barrett seems cliché but that doesn't bother me as well. Name one game where you won't find overly shallow and cliché characters...



If the scene in the demo bothers you? Where Adam tries to escape after realizing that Tong's goons had the bomb set on a suicidally short timer? Then I have to wonder what you're objecting to.

If you're objecting to the presence of such an over the top scene as mandatory, I'd point you at the scuttling of the freighter, destroying Versalife's Universal Constructor, etc. You destroy a lot of crap in DX, and you don't really have any choice about how to approach it, just how to approach getting to the point where you blow that stuff up.

If you're objecting to the way that Adam tries to escape... I can't really get it. What is he supposed to do? Walk out in an orderly fashion? There's a bomb he doesn't have the disarm code for about to go off.


I think he means that Adam is strong enough to punch through walls so why does he have problems to break a window...
but personally, I don't have a problem with that cutscene.

Serendipitous
23rd Jun 2010, 07:18
Dude the boat is shaking and there explosions involved. I give no about the specifics.

If the scene in the demo bothers you? Where Adam tries to escape after realizing that Tong's goons had the bomb set on a suicidally short timer? Then I have to wonder what you're objecting to.

If you're objecting to the presence of such an over the top scene as mandatory, I'd point you at the scuttling of the freighter, destroying Versalife's Universal Constructor, etc. You destroy a lot of crap in DX, and you don't really have any choice about how to approach it, just how to approach getting to the point where you blow that stuff up.

If you're objecting to the way that Adam tries to escape... I can't really get it. What is he supposed to do? Walk out in an orderly fashion? There's a bomb he doesn't have the disarm code for about to go off.

Yeah, it's a cutscene now and that's different and that sucks. But cutscenes aren't going anywhere anytime soon. Personally I thought it was pretty awesome that his initial attempt to break out failed, and that that was pretty clever. I'd rather have a cutscene like that than Some ty retread of the level I just finished where I have to run out the same way I came in (or even worse, a COMPLETELY ARBITRARY DIFFERENT WAY that gets foisted on you for no reason) with a timer flashing at the top of the screen.

In DX1, you entered in the code to destroy the UC, and then you found a way out of the exploding facility. If you take all that out, you're just running from one location to another triggering cutscenes every time something significant happens (the most important time to be in control of your character).

Fluffis
23rd Jun 2010, 07:26
Dude the boat is shaking and there explosions involved. I give no **** about the specifics.


As long as stuff goes boom, right?



If the scene in the demo bothers you? Where Adam tries to escape after realizing that Tong's goons had the bomb set on a suicidally short timer? Then I have to wonder what you're objecting to.

If you're objecting to the presence of such an over the top scene as mandatory, I'd point you at the scuttling of the freighter, destroying Versalife's Universal Constructor, etc. You destroy a lot of crap in DX, and you don't really have any choice about how to approach it, just how to approach getting to the point where you blow that stuff up.

If you're objecting to the way that Adam tries to escape... I can't really get it. What is he supposed to do? Walk out in an orderly fashion? There's a bomb he doesn't have the disarm code for about to go off.

Yeah, it's a cutscene now and that's different and that sucks. But cutscenes aren't going anywhere anytime soon. Personally I thought it was pretty awesome that his initial attempt to break out failed, and that that was pretty clever. I'd rather have a cutscene like that than Some ****ty retread of the level I just finished where I have to run out the same way I came in (or even worse, a COMPLETELY ARBITRARY DIFFERENT WAY that gets foisted on you for no reason) with a timer flashing at the top of the screen.

But for those things, in Deus Ex, there has been a logical progression. You seem to be a very "direct approach" kind of guy, so I'm sure this distinction is going to be lost on you, but here goes: The journey is the goal. You made that destruction happen, and you chose how to get there. The destruction itself is secondary. Then you have the panicky feeling, trying to escape. In a cutscene, which you have no influence over, nothing that you have done will have mattered. The cutscene is static. If the cutscene shows over-the-top violence, featuring your character, even though you are playing it stealthily, it clashes. It breaks immersion. If it shows you sneaking around, and you are playing a run'n'gun character, it clashes. It breaks immersion.
And all of a sudden you go from being in one place, to being in another. All without you having had anything to do about it. In the middle of a level.

During the over-the-top destruction in Deus Ex, you are running for your life, basically. You don't actually see the destruction itself, only the beginning of it.

If you want cutscenes, fine. That's your choice. I'd rather stay in control of the character. That's my choice.

Irate_Iguana
23rd Jun 2010, 07:59
I just wanted to get an updated discussion going on the opinions of the story.

Well, we know that there is at least one paramilitary faction in the game with a horrible taste in uniforms. Fashion-Challenged Black Man (FCBM) appears to be part of the Big Bad. Based on his uniform I don't think he belongs to the same group of people that Barrett belongs to. FCBM is probably not a part of the Illuminati. They are more of a background organization than a group with an overt military presence.

At least the first portion of the game looks like a whodunnit. We have Adam going about his business trying to find out who was behind the attack. We know he will be visiting Sarif Industries a few times. I wonder when, and if, we get to choose a side.



I'm betting the god awful dead body physics will be improved in a year's time

Don't count on it. Those ****ty physics are the industry standard for ragdolls. I've never seen a game that included them that didn't have ridiculous body physics.

Kodaemon
23rd Jun 2010, 08:26
Really, I don't know why everyone seems to think DX1's story was some sort of epitome of subtlety. It was filled with cheesy characters and lines, anvilicious monologues, every conspiracy theory possible just jumping straight in your face, and bouncers with GEP guns.

hardwired
23rd Jun 2010, 11:09
Really, I don't know why everyone seems to think DX1's story was some sort of epitome of subtlety. It was filled with cheesy characters and lines, anvilicious monologues, every conspiracy theory possible just jumping straight in your face, and bouncers with GEP guns.

I got a whole different impression. Besides "some" cheesy lines and bad voiceacting of some of the characters in the frist game (badly faked ascents included) it seemed somehow normal how the characters speaked and what they said sounded like a real conversation, so a way people actually talk.
Some may say its cold, but Im happy that if Im not always confronted, with pretty or over-emotional characters (Hollywood, anyone?!).

The augamentations seemed reasonable and the action much more down to the ground and without silly over the top actions (maybe cause the limited technology or budget).

That was something I could "believe" and opened the way for a lot of immersion, with some breaks of course, cause some of the weaknesses.

The main reason I dont even know if I want to play the game, is cause a total other impression of the world of the series. Gameplaychanges are mostly peanuts in comparsion, so something I can accept.

But the trailer was nothing special, it was a big letdown for me and the gameplay-impressions arent much better.
It reminded me of Metal Gear, Blade Runner and Ghost in the Shell, but Deus Ex? Not much.

Everything seems to get drown into Hollywoodmainstream-blockbusteres. It all have to look cool, but its just silly flashy bombast, pretty much like movies like the matrix, which pretty appeals to the masses.
The cheesy overvoiceacting of Jensen sounds pretty much like Christian Bale (No, I got no cough, Im a tough guy!), a actor i somehow like, but never can take really serious in his movies, even if I try.
The 80's-relict named Barrett, with typicall stupid phrases from that decade (besides many other cheesy phrases).
The cheesy scene with Adams Girlfriend (or whatever) seemed overemotional.
The ridicilous Shades, the claymore- and wall-move, the charactersdesign and not to mention voiceacting and phrases seemed all over the top, so so cool, that I raised my eyebrows and it actually itched in my brain.

Pretty much designed towards the young mainstreamcrowd. Reminds me of Call of Duty, but with actually some depth and a wider spectrum.

Even if the first Deus Ex have not the class of a book from Stanislav Lem, there is no reason to make it into something like "this". There is allready enough of that and the golden times of Hollywood are pretty much over.
At least for me I care more for the independent material, even I sometimes like Blockbusters.
But in that kind of movies you can still allot in many aspects, so noone in the audience start to laugh.

Only reason I still care is, that there are not many other special singleplayer-experiences.

(Hope my english is good enough to read it without get headache).

ChfMojoRising
23rd Jun 2010, 11:47
Actually I think there is good reason for the game to look like this. It's that it's hard to sell a game that looks boring, uninspired or just plain 'less-than-the-competition."

To make an analogy (something I should probably avoid)~ I do love Bruce Lee movies, but if a modern day martial art film used the same kind of cinematic techniques and choreography I'd pass it up if not start slinging arrows.

AaronJ
23rd Jun 2010, 12:49
It's that it's hard to sell a game that looks boring, uninspired or just plain 'less-than-the-competition."

That's the thing. Basic mainstream gameplay mechanics and cheesy action do not make HR equivalent to other games. It is less than the competition.

Shadowdagger
23rd Jun 2010, 13:31
I got a whole different impression. Besides "some" cheesy lines and bad voiceacting of some of the characters in the frist game (badly faked ascents included) it seemed somehow normal how the characters speaked and what they said sounded like a real conversation, so a way people actually talk.
Some may say its cold, but Im happy that if Im not always confronted, with pretty or over-emotional characters (Hollywood, anyone?!).

The augamentations seemed reasonable and the action much more down to the ground and without silly over the top actions (maybe cause the limited technology or budget).

That was something I could "believe" and opened the way for a lot of immersion, with some breaks of course, cause some of the weaknesses.

The main reason I dont even know if I want to play the game, is cause a total other impression of the world of the series. Gameplaychanges are mostly peanuts in comparsion, so something I can accept.

But the trailer was nothing special, it was a big letdown for me and the gameplay-impressions arent much better.
It reminded me of Metal Gear, Blade Runner and Ghost in the Shell, but Deus Ex? Not much.

Everything seems to get drown into Hollywoodmainstream-blockbusteres. It all have to look cool, but its just silly flashy bombast, pretty much like movies like the matrix, which pretty appeals to the masses.
The cheesy overvoiceacting of Jensen sounds pretty much like Christian Bale (No, I got no cough, Im a tough guy!), a actor i somehow like, but never can take really serious in his movies, even if I try.
The 80's-relict named Barrett, with typicall stupid phrases from that decade (besides many other cheesy phrases).
The cheesy scene with Adams Girlfriend (or whatever) seemed overemotional.
The ridicilous Shades, the claymore- and wall-move, the charactersdesign and not to mention voiceacting and phrases seemed all over the top, so so cool, that I raised my eyebrows and it actually itched in my brain.

Pretty much designed towards the young mainstreamcrowd. Reminds me of Call of Duty, but with actually some depth and a wider spectrum.

Even if the first Deus Ex have not the class of a book from Stanislav Lem, there is no reason to make it into something like "this". There is allready enough of that and the golden times of Hollywood are pretty much over.
At least for me I care more for the independent material, even I sometimes like Blockbusters.
But in that kind of movies you can still allot in many aspects, so noone in the audience start to laugh.

Only reason I still care is, that there are not many other special singleplayer-experiences.

(Hope my english is good enough to read it without get headache).


Oh please, name one game which doesn't have stereotypes and annoying phrases. I guess that the hardcore pessimistic fans always find "something" to whine and complain about. Deus Ex 3 won't be a carbon copy of the first game, that's for sure. I know that the gaming industry is producing a lot of bull***** lately but people should be still open to new ideas. The takedowns and the 3rd-person thingy may cut the gameflow a little bit but that doesn't bother me much - I think it looks great, imo... for each his own I guess.
Though, Adam's voice really sounds like that of an 90's pornstar, lol :lol:
We still don't know about the story and the "bad" dialogue in the footage doesn't prove that every character will use "stupid" phrases. The first Deus Ex had its good and bad moments, too.



PS: I'm a fan of Stanislaw Lem! :D

Remington
23rd Jun 2010, 13:36
bad characters don't bother me too much

lest we forget that the first deus ex had some pretty crappy characters too

qft.

TrickyVein
23rd Jun 2010, 13:41
This is the end of the world, at the high point of civilization and technology. It sets up the game to perfectly portray that after it's events, it's dystopia from then on.

It will be most interesting to see how the old adage, "The higher they climb, the higher they fall" plays out here. This is what I'm most looking forward to. I think it can really only be answered in full by going to play all 20 hours or more of the game itself.

When all is said and done, and the sarcastic (I'm guilty), pessimistic, frightened smoke clears, I just don't have a leg to stand on when it comes to weaning a well informed impression of the game. I can forgive everything that I mildly don't like in the trailer like that *snaps fingers* if the story is awesome and makes me want to play the game and see what happens. And the world that EM has created seems like its going to do just that. So I'm excited. :thumb:

michal.lewtak
23rd Jun 2010, 14:02
I just wanted to get an updated discussion going on the opinions of the story.

In my opinion, the music and overall tone of the E3 trailer were fantastic, and it was just what I was hoping for. The music sets up the game's broad scale while calling back on Alexander Brandon's Deus Ex soundtrack as well. As for the tone, I believe it perfectly captured everything the prequel could be. It sets the tone perfectly. This is the end of the world, at the high point of civilization and technology. It sets up the game to perfectly portray that after it's events, it's dystopia from then on.

But, the footage is what shook me. The incredibly cliche and cringe-worthy dialogue. And the window thing? It shakes the faith the trailer gave me.

tl;dr: trailers good but looks like we got ourselves a boy scout.

Opinions, GO!

This is why the window didn't break:
If you ran out of bioelectric energy to make superman punches, it's because you ran out of bioelectric energy to make superman punches. If not, then it's the enemies that quickly switched the original window for a strong bulletproof one (probably, a bit better that today's bulletproof glass) while setting up that trap bomb.
Both explanations make sense, and you can choose whichever you want! Deus Ex Human Revolution is a game of choices XD

Kodaemon
23rd Jun 2010, 14:07
Even if the first Deus Ex have not the class of a book from Stanislav Lem


PS: I'm a fan of Stanislaw Lem! :D

Me too, I think we should create a user group or something :D

michal.lewtak
23rd Jun 2010, 14:19
Am I right by saying that the number of takedowns you'll be able to do are limited (for example you won't be able to do the same double takedown 10 times in a row if a situation allows it), and they'll be more like trump cards you have for an entire mission, to use in the best situations, rather than something you might as well use for the entire game without shooting one single bullet? They said they used some god mode in the gameplay, which is why they could make as many takedowns as they wanted, and they wanted to show a lot of them to appeal the casual gamer too (not just the conoisseurs who are excited about a Good Game coming out :) ). Will the stealth takedowns in which you just knock someone out with your fist also be limited, and if you don't have any in stock, the only thing you can do is use a silenced gun? It'd seem senseless that, for example, breaking someone's neck from behind (I don't mean through a wall) requires any kind of special power. And then that would be like limiting the things you can do just for the challenge of it, like not allowing you to sprint for more than 90 seconds in an entire mission, or not firing more than 50 bullets. But if the takedowns do work as trump cards (regardless of if that rule applies to all of them, or just the ones that require gadgets and incredible strength/speed), I have positive feelings about it. Imagine you saved that last takedown for some time, and you find the perfect opportunity for it on top of the warehouse - the flashy minibomb drop that lets you get in the center of the action, take down a few enemies for free, and get behind some good cover to fight out the other enemies with some action (and just because You chose this way and not one of the remaining three our four).
Now, a thing or two about games with options. How much can we trust in the game choosing the right takedown for the current context? If we wanna silently knock out a guard that's just about to reach a corner where someone else stands, if the game chooses that Adam just makes the tap tap punch combo, the body will fly into the other enemy's field of view. But then again, that body fall noise is loud enough. But I was giving an example. Why doesn't the game let me choose myself which takedown to apply? The game wasn't supposed to be dumbed down, guys... you're starting to worry me... Wouldn't it be far more fun if the player could choose which takedown to apply, to have that little bit of thinking involved in the gameplay? And Please, Please, please, don't make the takedown animations start so early Before the actual takedown. The first one where Adam taps on the guard's shoulder was well executed. It started right away, Adam punched him, camera went back to his head while also seeing the guard fly, it all went fast and smooth. I think we can all agree that the worse moment from the gameplay was when Adam ran toward the wall to break the enemy's neck, but the animation started with him Standing by the wall for one second before delivering the blow. I hope that's not supposed to be like that to add epicness, it's just something they didn't have the time to correct for a pre-alpha gameplay. They had one thousand super important things on their minds and they just didn't have the time to worry about this one, because maybe it was minor compared to the other problems.

Now for some nerdy excitement and predictions:
I remember back in the shorter trailer, that Adam used his X-Ray to see guards, and also some exploitable health problem in one of them, and the indication of what guns they had ("combat rifles", that was a bit simplifed, but yeah XD). Wouldn't it be sweet if you could use that augmentation somewhere in the public areas to find out which people have concealed weapons under their coats? Stealth and recon FTW!!! I loved the X-Ray in Arkham Asylum and I'll love it here.

I do hope that Barret character will be a menace like Gunther in DX, and he'll appear when you least expect it, like in DX (and not the way we saw in the gameplay, please tell me that was all a big joke and that cutscene was just done in one hour, one hour they had when they realized they've been knocked unconscious and woke up on the E3 day).

Cover system looks great; basically it looks like a complete ripoff of Rainbow Six Vegas, which is very good (though I hope this time we'll have some better indication of whether you're visible to someone or not, it's hard to predict the angles). Maybe there will be an augmentation that lets you see those abstract lines enemies must cross to be able to see you? The cover system also has the sweet cover switching moves from Gears of War, And, Finally, the ability to walk around a corner cover without going out of cover mode. That sure took some time for someone to implement now didn't it.

I adored the light effects in the warehouse, I can now see what the artist meant about light that blends in with the environment. Gives a strong feeling that everything is foggy and cold like nights ought to be!

I do hope they remove that weapon selection screen for the PC, and allow me to bind any key on my Keyboard to any inventory slot... I won't forgive them if they go "if the console gamers have it hard, you must too". I've played way too many porty games to tolerate it, especially if it's freaking Deus Ex 3 we're talking about here, an Deus Ex 3 ought to be a PC game with lousy console ports, and not a console game with a lousy PC port.

And finally, the Ghost In The Shell robot fight was out of this world. I just wish the guy didn't zoom in on the robot so early, I wanted to watch that cube unwrapping animation till the end.