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View Full Version : What DON'T You Like About DXHR?



Deus_Ex_Machina
21st Jun 2010, 22:43
I'm sure someone will make numerous threads and polls about what they specifically like about DXHR, so I made a thread about what people specifically DON'T like about DXHR, based on the leaked E3 footage as well as confirmed info.

CHOOSE ALL THAT APPLY TO YOU. YOU CAN CHOOSE MULTIPLE OPTIONS.

If you want to detail why you voted as you did or if you need to specify what you dislike about DXHR, please do so.

Also, I added the last poll option for teh lulz.

Kodaemon
21st Jun 2010, 22:51
Third person is the main concern right now.

Great_Ragnarok
21st Jun 2010, 23:24
Takedowns rendered in the 3rd person is my concern.
although 3rd person stealth could make sense, if they say there's
a flying insect like robot, keeping track of enemy positions in Adam's vicinity.
They could turn that in to a gameplay mechanic it self, where Adam could
control this insect robot to check the path forward...

AaronJ
21st Jun 2010, 23:24
The game should be entirely third person at this point. It would be less of a change than fixing the terrible errors it has now.

Spyhopping
21st Jun 2010, 23:26
Don't forget that we can avoid a lot of third person, as annoying as it is. I plan to play in first person as much as possible, and I guess that means I'll just be watching Adam climb ladders.

booheads
21st Jun 2010, 23:31
3rd person uncontrollable events.


basically 50% of the gameplay shown in the videos.

I wanna play an FPSRPG, not watch a movie.

Ashpolt
21st Jun 2010, 23:54
My main concerns all along have been third person and health regeneration. Of the two, third person's the bigger concern, because the gameplay video showed it's even worse than I expected - seriously, those takedowns are NANOMACHINES stupid. They'd fit right in in an all out action game, but this is meant to be Deus Ex, and they just scream "15 year olds, please, love me!"

Also don't like the idea that cinematics are going to be more prevalent, but I could just about cope with that if, again, it weren't for third person.

So, to summarise: they're getting a lot wrong IMO, but third person is going to be the real killer.

ArcR
21st Jun 2010, 23:57
I don't know how I feel about cut scenes. I didn't like the Tong one at all. The Barrett one was somewhat appropriate.

Ilves
22nd Jun 2010, 00:08
Main concerns based on demo footage:

- Overall feel not mature enough. I can't believe I'm telling a DX game to take itself more seriously. :nut:

- TPV. Selling point was making Adam look cool. I'm not sold. (i.e. there's so much more untapped cool potential)

If the OP's question had been what do you like so far, the list would have been endlessly longer, though.

TrickyVein
22nd Jun 2010, 00:15
From a design standpoint, First person view is what appears to be awkwardly placed in the game. It was designed to be third person. Everything that is anything that Eidos wants to sell to its customers depends on Third Person view, from sneakily peering behind corners, rolling through combat and taking foes down.

The take-downs aren't so concerning. If I could see any one of them through AJ's eyes and not disembodied from the character, I would be stunned.

And if cut-scenes are going to be such a large part of the game, then they had better get some good actors so that we want to watch them, if that is what we must do.

St. Mellow
22nd Jun 2010, 00:25
Health Regen is not in the lead? What the hell? Anyways, the two big problems for me are the lack of a skill system and the regenerating health model. I actually like third person cover systems, and (IMHO) it's a perfect compromise to update the game for the current state of game design. Plus, judging from the leaked gameplay footage, I don't feel they're abusing third person camera. It still looks very much like an FPS.

Pinky_Powers
22nd Jun 2010, 00:46
What DON'T You Like About DXHR?.

Some of the take-downs are too long. And I really don't like them to be in third-person.

This is by far an insignificant complaint, as it really doesn't hurt the gameplay in any powerful way. And immersion is not something I loose easily, so I doubt it will hurt that very much either. But after seeing them in action, it does feel too much like a cut-scene you trigger, and not game-play.

Frankly, it it the artists trying to show off their work at the expense of good game design. They are so desperate to show your character's upgrades they are forfeiting the artistry of game design and breaking the flow of gameplay.

I do not, however, see anything wrong the the cover-system, either for stealth or combat. Despite the complaints, immersion will not be lost to me. And it in no way shapes the combat into a forced shootout. You can disengage from enemies with ease, you can circumvent them, ignore them. Take them out with stealth... There's nothing about it that seems any more forced than the original Deus Ex... period!

TrickyVein
22nd Jun 2010, 00:54
I know I'd certainly be much more forgiving of the game's mechanics that I've seen so far if I knew more about its story and were more wrapped up its in characters. It's true. So to that end...when can we see some more game-play to placate our forlorn fears and terrible troubles?

Third Person itself aint a bad thing. I love raiding tombs with lady croft. The game doesn't know which viewpoint it wants to have, and I think switching between them the way it does it a pretty rough compromise as it stands.

K^2
22nd Jun 2010, 00:55
Biggest gripe is health regeneration. Then skills. Then 3rd person switches. 3rd person would score higher if I thought I was actually going to use takedowns. Right now it's the switch when using stairs that bothers me the most.

Anybody else sees it as sort of an implied, "Oooh, look at us. We made a stair-climbing animation. You have to see that. That's totally the most awesome thing int he game, and all our achievements pale in comparison."

Ilves
22nd Jun 2010, 01:02
Yes. Especially given the fact that the animations are whack. Or simply not that impressive, to put it more reasonably.

TrickyVein
22nd Jun 2010, 01:08
Like everyone is moving in 1/6 earth gravity? And what was the deal with Tong holding his other arm and protecting himself like that - was he hurt as a child?

Ilves
22nd Jun 2010, 01:11
Like everyone is moving in 1/6 earth gravity?

No body mass, exactly. Now what I've seen is not sub par in terms of game animations but that's of course a non starter since they're generally awful. :whistle: I think I recall some Tweet about EM hiring "talented animators"...

(Also I think I spotted some brief moments of mocap, but I'm not sure...)

TrickyVein
22nd Jun 2010, 01:13
You know what they say about guys with big hands.

Pinky_Powers
22nd Jun 2010, 01:14
Anybody else sees it as sort of an implied, "Oooh, look at us. We made a stair-climbing animation. You have to see that. That's totally the most awesome thing int he game, and all our achievements pale in comparison."

Yes. They are being too showy for no good reason. They need to stop; it's embarrassing.

Ilves
22nd Jun 2010, 01:14
You know what they say about guys with big hands.

And noses. It's not true.

Ubersuntzu
22nd Jun 2010, 01:16
The only thing I'm worried about right now is the animations. Taking cover has a bit of a jerky transition, and takedowns look like they're missing a few frames. This is all stuff that has plenty of time to be polished, though.

AaronJ
22nd Jun 2010, 01:17
From a design standpoint, First person view is what appears to be awkwardly placed in the game. It was designed to be third person. Everything that is anything that Eidos wants to sell to its customers depends on Third Person view, from sneakily peering behind corners, rolling through combat and taking foes down.

This is exactly how I feel. I would rather have a TPS than this current mess.

Oddness
22nd Jun 2010, 01:18
Regenerating health is awful and just reeks of player-coddling console-centric design. Like every other game that uses this feature, combat will simply be a matter of popping out to shoot, waiting behind cover until health regenerates, repeat, etc... No fear you'll run out of med supplies or whatever.

Removal of skills is simply unforgivable, as far as I'm concerned. The sense of role-playing and building your character bit by bit is gone without it. You can tell just from this that Eidos Monreal doesn't get what made the original game a classic.

And probably the most offensive thing I've seen from the demo is the stupid multi-enemy takedowns. It's just so the casual gamer can get his power fantasy fix without skillful play. A pathetic addition and utterly out of place.

Remington
22nd Jun 2010, 01:18
The takedowns feel so out of context, feels like someone was inspired by Hitman. And skills :( where are they?

Although the old aiming system with the reticule shrink is back, something about it just feels... off. But I still like it.

What a shame.

Remington
22nd Jun 2010, 01:20
This is exactly how I feel. I would rather have a TPS than this current mess.

That's because there is no HUD/UI. That will be solved, with time.

TrickyVein
22nd Jun 2010, 01:20
*sigh*

I gave it my best.

What about guys with small hands?

ArcR
22nd Jun 2010, 01:39
Skills were long gone. It's All augs now.

All weapons User skill
Medical Skill- Health regen
Hacking Hacking aug
Lockpicking ?Wall Punch?
Multitool Hacking aug
Swimming Environment etc ????

Take downs need to happen faster. If melee were first person I might be able to live with it. 3rd person is killing me :(

Marses
22nd Jun 2010, 01:54
And you know there are typical character archetypes how, again?

Pinky_Powers
22nd Jun 2010, 02:01
Medical Skill- Health regen
Hacking Hacking aug
Lockpicking ?Wall Punch? and Hacking Aug again.
Multitool Hacking aug
Swimming Environment etc ???? Maybe Lung Augs...??:(

Updated. :)

maddermadcat
22nd Jun 2010, 02:18
...seriously, those takedowns are NANOMACHINES stupid. They'd fit right in in an all out action game, but this is meant to be Deus Ex, and they just scream "15 year olds, please, love me!"

I loved Deus Ex at age 15 because of the depth and freedom it offered, as well as the unique writing. Don't blame 15-year-olds, blame morons.


And you know there are typical character archetypes how, again?

"Looks like we got us a boy scout"
"You done real good to get this far..."

KSingh77
22nd Jun 2010, 02:20
The third person cover concerns me,did you see Adam spinning from cover to cover?

Everytime I look at the third person take downs it felt like watching Rogue Warrior.

But I do admit I liked it when Adam punched out that guard.Even though the game might be successful these things we dislike,well guess we'll have to deal with it.

Pinky_Powers
22nd Jun 2010, 02:24
The third person cover concerns me,did you see Adam spinning from cover to cover?


The spinning from cover to cover wasn't wonderful, I'll give you that. But it didn't ruin anything for me. I still felt sneaky and dangerous. :cool:

KSingh77
22nd Jun 2010, 02:37
Another thing:The bathroom

It looked naasty,I mean who in the world would leave their data pad on the bathroom floor?

pringlepower
22nd Jun 2010, 02:40
Another thing:The bathroom

It looked naasty,I mean who in the world would leave their data pad on the bathroom floor?

I've found a PSP in a bathroom

Pinky_Powers
22nd Jun 2010, 02:43
Another thing:The bathroom

It looked naasty,I mean who in the world would leave their data pad on the bathroom floor?

I'm glad you brought that up. I LOVED the bathroom (I know this is the wrong thread for love). I was... aroused... by the dude utilizing the urinal. And then, after he reads the datacube, Jensen turns toward the door, only to see the urinal dude leaving. That whole scene felt so alive. So... real. Excellent! :flowers:

K^2
22nd Jun 2010, 02:44
The spinning from cover to cover wasn't wonderful, I'll give you that. But it didn't ruin anything for me. I still felt sneaky and dangerous. :cool:
Oh, that's going to make a lot of people queasy when we fix the 3rd person "bug".

KSingh77
22nd Jun 2010, 02:47
Imagine spinning in first person.

Oh boy,like a ballerina.

ArcR
22nd Jun 2010, 02:54
Oh, that's going to make a lot of people queasy when we fix the 3rd person "bug".

:lol: Hopefully EM will do the grunt work. What sucks is that the level design is built around 3rd person snap cover and roll. Maybe they can release 2 version heh.

Pinky_Powers
22nd Jun 2010, 02:58
Oh, that's going to make a lot of people queasy when we fix the 3rd person "bug".

Ha! Yes, that will be something. :D

Marses
22nd Jun 2010, 03:15
Imagine spinning in first person.

Oh boy,like a ballerina.
Imagine spinning in real life. Any way to pull that off in first person?

ArcR
22nd Jun 2010, 03:21
First person rolling and takedowns: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Fm3ebiMXJmM

TheYouthCounselor
22nd Jun 2010, 03:31
Another thing:The bathroom

It looked naasty,I mean who in the world would leave their data pad on the bathroom floor?

Srsly! I mean, yeah on top of the urinal or sink? Maybe. But on the nasty piss water floor next to the trash? Nah.

booheads
22nd Jun 2010, 04:57
First person rolling and takedowns: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Fm3ebiMXJmM

i was about to link mirrors edge videos, thank you :wave:


tho i doubt there will be as much movement in DX3 as ME, ME just shows how easily it can be done without going the cheap and popular route of making every franchise into a Third person action game.

Marses
22nd Jun 2010, 05:23
First person rolling and takedowns: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Fm3ebiMXJmM
The irony of linking Mirror's Edge for a Deus Ex game. Oh, it's delicious.

Brockxz
22nd Jun 2010, 05:31
ok overall i liked everything i saw in gameplay footage, it's just need some minor/major corrections in some aspects. For example i don 't like camera position when you are in third person view. It allows you to see with ease absolutely everything and there is no suspense that enemies will see you. I would prefer camera more close to character so that have near close limited view around corner and if i want to see more, i need to lean out a little bit but that would be a dangerous move because enemies can see me doing that.
Also, not really third person takedown fan but i can accept those if they smooth them to perfection. Most work needs to be done to transition between fps and tps view because i hate that it cuts out. Camera needs to flyby from Adam's eyes to third person not to cut to third person immediately.
And one more concern about third person, don 't make eavesdrops as cutscenes. I hate that simple eavesdroping is like cutscene, it takes away a control over character from gamers and makes game more like movie not game. Cinematic approach is good in games but it's better if you leave character control to gamers.

P.S. ou yeah, and i miss skills and lockpicks/multitools. I understand that it all goes in augmentation now but i miss them anyway :)

LoverEidy
22nd Jun 2010, 05:51
Who is complaining about the voice acting?!?! Are you guys nuts. Jensen sounds BAD ASS! He's supposed to sound like that. Tong sounds great and the acting is like they are actually having conversations! Okay, maybe the security guard is a little cheesy

Militron
22nd Jun 2010, 06:32
The tech noir aesthetic is so far the only thing I like, I'll probably just go read some cyberpunk instead.

beastrn
22nd Jun 2010, 06:55
Is it sad that I ticked every single one?

Rappy
22nd Jun 2010, 06:59
Who chose the last option ?

I think for me currently it's the fear of takedowns mixed with "press A to commence", it might become too context based with all of those "triggers" everywhere and little text telling you can perform some special move.

It's a wonderfully pretty game alright but I hope there's not too much handholding and cinematics involved.
I think it kinda takes you out of the character, especially if you're the sneaky kind.

Irate_Iguana
22nd Jun 2010, 07:11
Third person is the main concern right now.

This. From what I've seen in the video the switch between perspectives looks awkward. There is a noticable lag before the perspective shifts. It seems to snap into place quite abruptly when it does switch. As it stands now this is anything but smooth. Now, this might be polished in the actual game, but I can't shake the feeling that this is how it is going to remain.

3rd Person cover is my other concern from the video. Because one level was a dockyard I find it hard to say that all levels will be studded with waist-high barriers. Though I must say I was happy to see a lot of man-high barriers as well. My problem with the 3rd person is that you get a much larger field of view IN cover than you get OUT of cover. Zoom that camera in all the way on Adam's face so that you can just see past a corner. If you want to view more than you need to make Adam walk to the edge of the cover and make him peer out of it. This exposes you to detection. As the cover stands now it is grossly overpowered. You can survey almost the entire battlefield while having no chance of being detected.



The take-downs aren't so concerning. If I could see any one of them through AJ's eyes and not disembodied from the character, I would be stunned.

My biggest problem with the take-downs was that some where wholly unnecessary. The KO-punch one shouldn't go into 3rd person. It would have a bigger impact viewed from 1st person. Something like the Icarus Landing System or the Claymore use the 3rd person well. EM needs to be more selective in deciding what needs and doesn't need the 3rd person.

On the whole the trailer used the take-downs almost non-stop. Understandable because they need to show this off. I'm wondering how often we could actually do something like this in the game. They need to balance the pip-system quite well to avoid having this feature becoming easy-mode. I use easy mode because during the use of the Claymore Adam was shot and the screen didn't react. During take-downs Adam is apparently invulnerable.



;1426976']Health Regen is not in the lead? What the hell?

Health regen is not shown in the leaked footage. Since they said they were including healing items I guess people are hoping that the HR system might not be as annoying as previously thought.

Shralla
22nd Jun 2010, 07:28
I use easy mode because during the use of the Claymore Adam was shot and the screen didn't react. During take-downs Adam is apparently invulnerable.

God mode was on FFS

Irate_Iguana
22nd Jun 2010, 07:30
God mode was on FFS

During the shooting battle after he used the ILS and Claymore Adam was shot. The screen reacted to that by briefly flashing red to indicate that he had been hit. There are hit indicators just like in DX. Those indicators aren't present when he is using the take-downs. God-mode was on, but it was still possible to tell if Adam was getting hurt or not.

Great_Ragnarok
22nd Jun 2010, 07:33
wait, if Adam isn't invulnerable during takedowns then that's a problem,
since you have no control over the situation and because they are 3-4 seconds long!

Anasumtj
22nd Jun 2010, 07:33
"It's pre-alpha!" and "God mode was on!" have become the most recent additions to HR apolagetics, it seems!

Pinky_Powers
22nd Jun 2010, 07:45
"It's pre-alpha!" and "God mode was on!" have become the most recent additions to HR apolagetics, it seems!

Do you have any idea how stupid you sound?

Someone says "Adam's a tank!" And a wise soul responds "they were playing with GodMode". And you call that being apologetic?

I wish to god someone would beat some sense into you.

beastrn
22nd Jun 2010, 07:45
It's interesting how, when given something visual to examine, all of the people that were staunchly defending 3rd person, takedowns, regen, cool factor, cinematics, AI - etc, have FINALLY gained some sense and realized all these things are adding up to be a rubbish DX title. It's like, people like myself, Philll, Anasumtj, K^2 (and a few others, you know who you are) already had this picture in our minds about what the game would be like - and watching the video just confirmed it for us - whereas for everyone else it was some sort of revelation.

It's good to know that, at least most of you, can tell bad from good when given the correct amount of information you need.


As for being alpha footage etc - anyone with a lick of sense knows that means nearly nothing. Sure, we disregard things like AI barks, reactions, graphics, sound, things like that - but when it comes down to the core mechanics (everything in the poll) - there is no discussion.

And I can almost guarantee that you will be god-mode during takedowns. Just like in every other stupid console game. Which makes it even more ridiculous when Adam will be tapping guys on the shoulder while 3 other guys are shooting at him.

Marses
22nd Jun 2010, 08:08
Do you have any idea how stupid you sound?

Someone says "Adam's a tank!" And a wise soul responds "they were playing with GodMode". And you call that being apologetic?

I wish to god someone would beat some sense into you.

He's arguing that water shouldn't be wet. It's quite fun to watch.

Badmaker
22nd Jun 2010, 08:24
Anyone know whats the blue glow coming from his arms when Adam makes a takedown ?

Bluey71
22nd Jun 2010, 09:04
Some of the take-downs are too long. And I really don't like them to be in third-person.



Regenerating health is awful and just reeks of player-coddling console-centric design.

Removal of skills is simply unforgivable. The sense of role-playing and building your character bit by bit is gone without it. You can tell just from this that Eidos Monreal doesn't get what made the original game a classic.



The third person cover concerns me,did you see Adam spinning from cover to cover?

Everytime I look at the third person take downs it felt like watching Rogue Warrior.




I think for me currently it's the fear of takedowns mixed with "press A to commence", it might become too context based with all of those "triggers" everywhere and little text telling you can perform some special move.


3rd Person cover is my other concern from the video. Because one level was a dockyard I find it hard to say that all levels will be studded with waist-high barriers.


My biggest problem with the take-downs was that some where wholly unnecessary. The KO-punch one shouldn't go into 3rd person. It would have a bigger impact viewed from 1st person.

EM needs to be more selective in deciding what needs and doesn't need the 3rd person.

All good points, and all points we have talked about before over the past two years, all be it without any input from Eidos.

We have at least 6 months until this game ships and, I believe we have a chance, small maybe but a chance never the less, to get some things changed. Maybe only small things but a change is a change.

If we sit here do nothing and accept it, then we can expect all these things to remain the same. If we are proactive about it, we can at least say we tried.

I want to suggest a new thread - hopefully a stickied thread where everyone who wants to can register their support for a few minor changes to the game. Note, this isnt about making demands and stomping our feet - it's a request to Eidos to consider what the core fans think would be good additions/changes.

Anybody feel like supporting this?

beastrn
22nd Jun 2010, 09:12
Anybody feel like supporting this?

I admire your innocence - but the fact is it would be meaningless. They're not interested in the vocal 20%, they're interested in the money-throwing 80%.

Every decision made in this game has taken months to come to a conclusion - they're not going to consider a thread with barely triple digits of votes/posts.

-_-

Sabretooth1
22nd Jun 2010, 09:18
Imagine spinning in real life. Any way to pull that off in first person?

I see it done in Call of Duty all the time: increase your mouse sensitivity, then roll it to the left or right. Not perfect, but closest to that effect.

Bluey71
22nd Jun 2010, 09:21
they're not going to consider a thread with barely triple digits of votes/posts.

Lets wait and see on the numbers, it doesn't just have to be members from this forum - there are plenty of people interested in DX who are not here. There are even more people who are interested in the general state of gaming today, who are absent, but who may be interested in making their interest known.

iamrob7
22nd Jun 2010, 16:06
3rd person, please god someone stop the 3rd person...

xsamitt
22nd Jun 2010, 16:14
Amen to that.

Underdog106
22nd Jun 2010, 16:31
I for one think the DXHR is going to be a great game in every respect, i wanted it after seeing the trailer. However after seeing the gameplay there was one things bugging me and also though this may seem minor compared to whats on offer but idol civilians in the city just makes it seem lifeless. I would prefer to see them moving about like you are in a highly populated city.

xsamitt
22nd Jun 2010, 16:36
My biggest concern overall is that Deus EX needs to be very mature,free of coolness that one would associate with young kids (No offense to young kids reading this,hey I was young once too with a drippy nose lol) but rather needs a cool adult seriousness if it wants to avoid being the next DXIW.I am concerned and pray I'm wrong.

iamrob7
22nd Jun 2010, 17:04
Yes yes and yes. It seems there are enough people here saying the right things...telling the developers what they need to do/change...I pray they listen...

Deus_Ex_Machina
22nd Jun 2010, 21:21
Who chose the last option ?

The poll results are public. Click on the number of votes to see who voted for what.

Scary Bulldog
22nd Jun 2010, 21:35
Have not played the game and I do not think that I can complain about anything yet without playing the full version of the game and seeing the big picture of it all.

Shralla
22nd Jun 2010, 21:49
It's interesting how, when given something visual to examine, all of the people that were staunchly defending 3rd person, takedowns, regen, cool factor, cinematics, AI - etc, have FINALLY gained some sense and realized all these things are adding up to be a rubbish DX title.

That's an incredibly blanket statement, and kind of funny, given that it sure looks like the only people really complaining are the EXACT SAME PEOPLE WHO WERE COMPLAINING THE WHOLE GODDAMN TIME. Interestingly enough, yeah, the game looks exactly like all the previews made it sound, and all the people who didn't like the way the previews sounded don't like it. Crazy how that works. Nice attempt at projecting your own doubt onto everybody else in an effort to defend your point of view though.

And honestly, I'm really left wondering how you can determine anything about "regen" in a demo THAT USED GOD MODE. And I'm REALLY wondering just what the **** your problem with the AI is, given that we've BARELY seen it demonstrated at all, and what we've seen was a guard LOOKING BACKWARDS ON PATROL, which is something that almost never happens in any game ever.

EDIT:


I'm sure someone will make numerous threads and polls about what they specifically like about DXHR

I also enjoy this completely baseless statement, especially in light of the fact that there are ZERO of the "numerous" threads that you were "sure" would pop up.

Negative Nancy.

pringlepower
22nd Jun 2010, 21:54
My biggest concern overall is that Deus EX needs to be very mature,free of coolness that one would associate with young kids (No offense to young kids reading this,hey I was young once too with a drippy nose lol) but rather needs a cool adult seriousness if it wants to avoid being the next DXIW.I am concerned and pray I'm wrong.

Coolness = bad
Cool adult seriously = good?

Wtf?

Angel/0A
22nd Jun 2010, 21:58
The third person cover concerns me,did you see Adam spinning from cover to cover?

Yea, I think that was the one point that really stood out to me. Going between close objects of cover was what made it look bad to me, since Adam's doing his spin so quickly over a short distance at that point.

Ashpolt
22nd Jun 2010, 22:47
I also enjoy this completely baseless statement, especially in light of the fact that there are ZERO of the "numerous" threads that you were "sure" would pop up.

Negative Nancy.

http://forums.eidosgames.com/showthread.php?t=110346

FrankCSIS
22nd Jun 2010, 22:51
Interestingly enough, yeah, the game looks exactly like all the previews made it sound, and all the people who didn't like the way the previews sounded don't like it. Crazy how that works. Nice attempt at projecting your own doubt onto everybody else in an effort to defend your point of view though.

I think the point he's made is that a year, two years ago, before any form of preview came out and René only discussed briefly some of the mechanics, some people here (including lil ol me) expressed doubts about how it would translatye to the rest of the game, and made a certain amount of predictions. At the time we were told to wait for previews, and later on to wait for footage.

As it turns out, the game is very similar to what was expected, both the good and the bad. Because let's be fair, there is an enormous amount of good in the footage we've seen, and not just goody good, but Deus Ex good. Regardless, what we thought would endanger the design and change the mechanical and gameplay philosophy to the point of being unrecognisable is so far proving to be doing just that.

Some of you like it, and I wouldn't mind it too much (although I'm already sick to death of the third person combat system we've seen in every major title worth mentionning) if it weren't a sequel to a name to which impossible near-expectecations are attached. To many here, the name Deus Ex is simply magical. As was the name Fallout to many (myself included, yet again), or Baldur's Gate, or Grim Fandango, or Thief. And man, if you think the backlash is bad now, wait until the first news come out for Thief, if the gameplay is as changed as DX:HR is to Deus Ex.

Shralla
22nd Jun 2010, 23:08
http://forums.eidosgames.com/showthread.php?t=110346

A thread made THREE HOURS after this one, in an identical format.

Self-fulfilling prophecy? I think so.

Urahara
22nd Jun 2010, 23:43
"What Specifically DON'T You Like About DXHR?"

That it keeps being compared to Deus Ex 1 and 2. There both old games developed long ago with archaic understandings of science and technology. DXHR is made in modern times with a better understanding of science and technology yet it's progress and uniqueness keeps on being hampered by people trying to drag it back to the stone age by comparing it to Deus Ex 1 and 2.

FrankCSIS
22nd Jun 2010, 23:56
Archaic technology, isn't that an oxymoron? Every last piece of technology we will see in HR will be obsolete in two years. In the next decade, when gameplay will be entirely different from this game, we'l see the same silly technological arguments going about.

Design philosophy, however, never goes out of style when it's well executed. Most of the discussions here, when you get down to it, have been about the difference of philosophy behind the two approaches. Everything else is just empty debate.

Comes back to what I previously said on Cyberpunk. On one hand you have technology as an excuse to showcase the shortcommings of humanity and the illusion of civilisation, and in the red corner you have empty debates on technology itself, and its supposed effect on humanity and society. One of those two misses the boat, I'll leave it up to you to guess which one it is.

Deus_Ex_Machina
23rd Jun 2010, 00:36
A thread made THREE HOURS after this one, in an identical format.

Self-fulfilling prophecy? I think so.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Nh33bGAxl58

Laputin Man
23rd Jun 2010, 00:54
"What Specifically DON'T You Like About DXHR?"

That it keeps being compared to Deus Ex 1 and 2. There both old games developed long ago with archaic understandings of science and technology. DXHR is made in modern times with a better understanding of science and technology yet it's progress and uniqueness keeps on being hampered by people trying to drag it back to the stone age by comparing it to Deus Ex 1 and 2.


Please elaborate for us all. I really don't understand what you are trying to get at. What is new and unique? Is it the cover system borrowed from other games that has already been done to death? Is it the take down animations that can be seen in action games like Prototype and other similar games? How is it wrong to hope for a game that is supposed to be part of a series or franchise to be like the other games that started that series, when you are a fan of that series? By that logic perhaps Nintendo should put out an FPS Mario Bros game eh?

Icarus AI
23rd Jun 2010, 02:02
Anyone know whats the blue glow coming from his arms when Adam makes a takedown ?

Magic. Eidos thought it would be cool if Adam could throw some fireballs and lightning around.

KSingh77
23rd Jun 2010, 02:06
He's got the magic blue touch.

Who Watches Me
23rd Jun 2010, 02:10
Didn’t the first dues ex take you out of the experience when you interact with other characters to have a little chat???

Well, DXHR still does that but now it takes you out for 3rd person takedowns and cover…. I would like first person everything but lets be honest the first one wasn’t really all FPS mode all the time, so adding something that can enhance the playing field is a plus for me. I actually like the takedown and stuff I could see why people would want them in FPS but lets not get out of the way and say this isn’t DX because it takes out of the experience when the first did it as well.

Pinky_Powers
23rd Jun 2010, 02:16
Magic. Eidos thought it would be cool if Adam could throw some fireballs and lightning around.

That would be great!!

I still call the Powers in Mass Effect "spells". I love my fantasy genre.

biofuel
23rd Jun 2010, 02:32
After seeing the gameplay for myself, I have a feeling we might be heading for the biggest "major blockbuster" flop since whatever the last one was

DisaFear
23rd Jun 2010, 08:10
I hear that hacking is now going to be a minigame? That is definitely something I am against. Loved the hacking in DX1, just sit back and wait for it to hack, unlike Mass Effect and those storage cupboards and that gel or whatever

Deus_Ex_Machina
23rd Jun 2010, 08:21
After seeing the gameplay for myself, I have a feeling we might be heading for the biggest "major blockbuster" flop since whatever the last one was

You mean Deus Ex: Invisible War? :D

Pinky_Powers
23rd Jun 2010, 09:02
I hear that hacking is now going to be a minigame? That is definitely something I am against. Loved the hacking in DX1, just sit back and wait for it to hack, unlike Mass Effect and those storage cupboards and that gel or whatever

Hacking and Decoding in ME2 was FAR better. In fact, I genuinely enjoyed it.

As for Human Revolution, most people are glad they're making Hacking an interactive process. But we're all more than a little desperate to see it, or even handle it for ourselves... just to be sure it isn't super annoying like BioShock 1. This is another example of how Eidos Montréal is adding complexity in the place of some of the things they've dumbed down.

Only time will tell if it works well in-game.

jtr7
23rd Jun 2010, 09:06
Magic. Eidos thought it would be cool if Adam could throw some fireballs and lightning around.

It's probably a way to alert the player that the game is taking over the controls until the animation is done.

Tverdyj
23rd Jun 2010, 13:44
Lack of skills. This, is annoying, since this is what "dumbing down" is REALLY all about.

btw, I invested points in swimming, b/c I liked stealth approach, and it stacked with Aqualung for those REALLY long swims (getting into the cathedral, anyone?

Health regen used to be a major gripe, but then I thought back to some of my favourie games: Vampire the Masquerade Bloodlines, and the Witcher. both have health regen, but it's too slow to make much difference in combat. if DXHR follows that type of model, i'd be happy. hell, if they do same thing that they're doing with energy, i'll be happy.

takedowns--I hate them, but I don't gotta use them.

Cover system--biggest gripe. I'll wait for a mod that has crouch and lean keys before I do a stealth run.

aside from that, I can still see this game being good. not DX good, but the next best thing...

Blade_hunter
23rd Jun 2010, 13:50
You can crouch hopefully, but can't lean, the RH won't be slow even if the footage doesn't show it.
At least the footage doesn't show even the hacking.
And modding the views won't be easy. this game doesn't feature body awareness

Kvltism
23rd Jun 2010, 14:00
Lack of skills. This, is annoying, since this is what "dumbing down" is REALLY all about.

btw, I invested points in swimming, b/c I liked stealth approach, and it stacked with Aqualung for those REALLY long swims (getting into the cathedral, anyone?
Yes, I took that route in one play-through. Ended up sacrificing my lock-picking skill a little, but in no way did it hamper the experience. I don't really get how some people call the swimming skill "useless."


Health regen used to be a major gripe, but then I thought back to some of my favourie games: Vampire the Masquerade Bloodlines, and the Witcher. both have health regen, but it's too slow to make much difference in combat. if DXHR follows that type of model, i'd be happy. hell, if they do same thing that they're doing with energy, i'll be happy.
I wouldn't object to health regen akin to that in Bloodlines. Fantastic game.


takedowns--I hate them, but I don't gotta use them.

Cover system--biggest gripe. I'll wait for a mod that has crouch and lean keys before I do a stealth run.
Both would be complete non-issues if the player was given a choice. It wouldn't kill EM to offer us some melee weapons and keys to crouch and lean. They can keep their glitzy 3rd-person takedown moves and cover system in the game, and the individual can opt not to use said features. No drama there.

Blade_hunter
23rd Jun 2010, 14:12
There is no melee combat which have been replaced with takedowns and that's not only biomods and no leaning the cover system is for that purpose.

Kvltism
23rd Jun 2010, 14:19
There is no melee combat which have been replaced with takedowns and that's not only biomods and no leaning the cover system is for that purpose.
Case closed? Ouch, that's appalling.

Laputin Man
23rd Jun 2010, 14:51
Lack of skills. This, is annoying, since this is what "dumbing down" is REALLY all about.

btw, I invested points in swimming, b/c I liked stealth approach, and it stacked with Aqualung for those REALLY long swims (getting into the cathedral, anyone?

Health regen used to be a major gripe, but then I thought back to some of my favourie games: Vampire the Masquerade Bloodlines, and the Witcher. both have health regen, but it's too slow to make much difference in combat. if DXHR follows that type of model, i'd be happy. hell, if they do same thing that they're doing with energy, i'll be happy.

takedowns--I hate them, but I don't gotta use them.

Cover system--biggest gripe. I'll wait for a mod that has crouch and lean keys before I do a stealth run.

aside from that, I can still see this game being good. not DX good, but the next best thing...


I am not familiar with the Witcher health system unfortunately but I loved Bloodlines. Though it wasn't regenerating health like what we see in FPS games like CoD. If I remember correctly if you took a certain kind of damage it would only regenerate your health so far. You would still have to eventually either feed off of some poor soul or use a blood pack. Also, weren't powers fueled by your blood pool as well? Or am I getting mixed up here... I need to buy that game again. My 2nd favorite game ever after DX.

JablesKage
23rd Jun 2010, 16:25
do not really have any gripes as the game play video i saw was blurry and had a guys head in the way so really cant make any meaningful judgments.

hardwired
23rd Jun 2010, 16:52
I dont like many things, but simplified gameplay and RPG-aspects are ok, cause I care for story, characters, dialogs and atmosphere.
But the presentation is to hollywood-like for me. Beyound that what I know to be the world and humans.

Overall I just wish to be taken serious as a male adult person with at least a bit of taste (the opposite can still play Metal Gear Solid). Sadly the game that is such a letdown in that aspect, have the name deus ex in it.

BTW: I hate me for still hoping, that I will like the game. Even if I turn of the sound, so I dont hear Jensen, Barrett and some sound-a-likes talking and wear glasses that make hard to tell what actually happens on the screen, but filter the over the top styling.

68_pie
23rd Jun 2010, 20:03
I think pretty much all of my dislikes have already been mentioned by other people apart from: Keypads.

I actively encourage the ability to manually input codes but what is the point of this if the code just comes up on your screen? It may as well be automatic if that is going to happen.

Jerion
23rd Jun 2010, 20:10
I think pretty much all of my dislikes have already been mentioned by other people apart from: Keypads.

I actively encourage the ability to manually input codes but what is the point of this if the code just comes up on your screen? It may as well be automatic if that is going to happen.

This is silly. There's no keypad on PS3/360, they need a way to enter codes on-screen. You've probably forgotten, but in DX you could enter codes on keypads either with your keyboard or by clicking on the onscreen buttons with your mouse.

EDIT: Oooh, you're talking about how they put the code on the screen? That seems like an easy solution if you already know the code anyway.

Blade_hunter
23rd Jun 2010, 20:21
And with a console you can use your digital cross to select the numbers

68_pie
23rd Jun 2010, 23:01
EDIT: Oooh, you're talking about how they put the code on the screen? That seems like an easy solution if you already know the code anyway.

This is what I meant. I liked having to look through my notebook trying see whether I had written down the correct code for a specific door. If the code just comes up on screen its barely different from the IW system. It just seems rather a token gesture.

pringlepower
23rd Jun 2010, 23:26
This is what I meant. I liked having to look through my notebook trying see whether I had written down the correct code for a specific door. If the code just comes up on screen its barely different from the IW system. It just seems rather a token gesture.

Then before you click the keypad, put a sheet of paper over the right side of the screen. Honestly there are so many better things to have gripes about

68_pie
23rd Jun 2010, 23:54
Honestly there are so many better things to have gripes about

Which have already been mentioned. Also, these little niggles tend to annoy me :)

I'm just saying it seems a little pointless.

Maffis
23rd Jun 2010, 23:55
I'm hoping that cover won't be so crucial for gun-play. I don't like covering so much in games.

Pinky_Powers
24th Jun 2010, 00:00
This is what I meant. I liked having to look through my notebook trying see whether I had written down the correct code for a specific door. If the code just comes up on screen its barely different from the IW system. It just seems rather a token gesture.

You may have liked that, but it was stupid. If I had the code on me, I'd take it out of my pocket, hold it up next to the keypad, and enter it verbatim. That's pretty much what we get in Human Revolution.

Pinky_Powers
24th Jun 2010, 00:05
I'm hoping that cover won't be so crucial for gun-play. I don't like covering so much in games.

Cover is crucial for all realistic gunplay. Bullets are lethal. But in Human Revolution, cover can be used either in third-person (by holding down your right mouse button) or in first (by just ducking behind a solid object).

If you're worried about being forced into huge gunfights. That will only happen if you screw up your stealth approach. And even then, with the right talent, you can still pick off alerted soldiers one at a time, like a ninja.

68_pie
24th Jun 2010, 00:13
You may have liked that, but it was stupid. If I had the code on me, I'd take it out of my pocket, hold it up next to the keypad, and enter it verbatim. That's pretty much what we get in Human Revolution.

That's not so much the problem for me - I liked the action of looking it up. If I found out the code well in advance then I probably have since taken other notes - it's not like it would just be in my pocket. I can't imagine that all codes are going to be found in such close proximity to the door of use (both in terms of distance and time) as was seen in the leaked footage. It also removes the action of reading to check that you have the correct code for the correct door. Call me crazy but I like having to look these things up whether it is in the ingame journal or a RL pad.

I don't want the auto-entering of IW but it still strikes me as strange that they would put it up on screen for you and then you have to fill it in.

But whatever - this is hardly a major issue for me I was just throwing it out.

Pinky_Powers
24th Jun 2010, 00:24
I understand, and I do agree for the most part. But this version seems to work quite well.

Tverdyj
24th Jun 2010, 01:48
I am not familiar with the Witcher health system unfortunately but I loved Bloodlines. Though it wasn't regenerating health like what we see in FPS games like CoD. If I remember correctly if you took a certain kind of damage it would only regenerate your health so far. You would still have to eventually either feed off of some poor soul or use a blood pack. Also, weren't powers fueled by your blood pool as well? Or am I getting mixed up here... I need to buy that game again. My 2nd favorite game ever after DX.

in bloodlines, your health would regenerate at a slow rate. if you got hit with aggro damage (fire, electricity, certain types of melee), it would fill up part of your health bar with yellow, and regenerating that, even out of combat, would take ages, unless you fed.

to use your disciplines, you'd use up your blood pool, which acted like mana, and could only be recharged by feeding.

bottom line is, as long as eidos tweaks the regen speed (or gives us an option to toggle it--i'm sure that they could easily just make speed a variable), I think I could live with health regen after all.

3rdmillhouse
24th Jun 2010, 02:45
Regenerating health and the third person cover system. Killzone 2 has a first person cover system which works fantastically. Copy that, make it happen. Or have no cover system at all.


in bloodlines, your health would regenerate at a slow rate. if you got hit with aggro damage (fire, electricity, certain types of melee), it would fill up part of your health bar with yellow, and regenerating that, even out of combat, would take ages, unless you fed.

to use your disciplines, you'd use up your blood pool, which acted like mana, and could only be recharged by feeding.

bottom line is, as long as eidos tweaks the regen speed (or gives us an option to toggle it--i'm sure that they could easily just make speed a variable), I think I could live with health regen after all.

Yeah, but the regeneration made sense within the context of the RPG mechanics of the game. The White Wolf's Word of Darkness RPG Mythos, vampires can regenerate almost any damage done to them, as long as they have blood in their bodies.