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seniorsassycat
14th Jun 2010, 17:27
Something i feel really made deus ex such a good game is that you had to do alot of stuff yourself.
You had to type in codes and passwords or try your key ring to get in to places.

Most games, including IW automatically entered codes and passwords when you knew them, which actually takes away form the rewarding feeling of figuring out the codes.
In Deus Ex you could even brute force the codes (trying every combination) and it allowed for clever puzzles (the reference to Maggie Chows birth date for a password)

So what did you feel are the most important parts of Deus Ex that NEED to be in HR or any other DX game and if you could make a hard core equivalent of that mechanic what would it be?

My hardcore equivalent would be actual hacking. It could use simplified syntax and maybe a mini game but it should still be similar to actual hacking.

another thing i liked was inventory management and the hardcore equivalent would be having unequipped items hinder you, includeing ammo in your inventory and having holsters and straps for weapons, which could even be picked up and upgraded or cosomized to fit your play style.

K.Karisma
14th Jun 2010, 17:32
Something i feel really made deus ex such a good game is that you had to do alot of stuff yourself.
You had to type in codes and passwords or try your key ring to get in to places.

Most games, including IW automatically entered codes and passwords when you knew them, which actually takes away form the rewarding feeling of figuring out the codes.
you could even brute force the codes (trying every combination) and it allowed for clever puzzles (the reference to Maggie Chows birth date for a password)

So what did you feel are the most important parts of Deus Ex that NEED to be in HR or any other DX game?

I believe the PS2 version automatically entered the codes if you'd found them too, could be mistaken.
Although it is taking away a little, it got tedious at times, and I wouldn't see it as a major loss if it was removed.


I'm really hoping the music is very similar, or they even use old tracks from DX, it had probably the best soundtrack of any game i've played, really played in to the atmosphere.

Badmaker
14th Jun 2010, 17:34
Yeah, thats a good point. i can add the Alex Jacobson log and pass from DX1. He had some cover on the wall with a name on it: CALVO. I tried to use this name as his password and guess what, it worked.
And while playing IW, i missed the manual enter of keycodes. Hope HR will have this feature.

beastosterone
14th Jun 2010, 17:45
It won't, lol.

Obnoxious Frog
14th Jun 2010, 23:45
Ah, the days when games actually made you think.

I hadn't thought of it until you brought it up, but I agree that it added something. It was small, but those small things added up. I'm not too sure about teaching kids how to hack in a game (or nearly at least), but it'd be nice to have something a little more interactive than "hold <insert button here>" as the trend has gone.

The only thing that springs to mind off the top of my head is a persistent environment. Moving all those TNT crates for Sunglasses at Night's nuke when rescuing Paul was tedious, but the blast was well worth the effort. Loading screens killed that kind of thing, but I can't imagine it'd be too hard for the load to remember you were carrying something.

It doesn't have to be that elaborate, of course, but I hope stuff stays put if you mess with or move it. Consistency breeds immersion.

JackShandy
15th Jun 2010, 00:51
I'd like to see a game where the hacking interface actually has you go through a simplified PC interface trying to find information buried in piles of inessential junk- all the while with the chance that you could be caught snooping b a guard.

Won't happen in DE3, though.

Obnoxious Frog
15th Jun 2010, 01:58
Not a bad idea. That reminds me of the lockpicking system in Thief 3. Picking away at doors in the Cradle will give you nightmares.

hem dazon 90
15th Jun 2010, 02:06
No. That would be tedious busywork.

Obnoxious Frog
15th Jun 2010, 02:38
True, it shouldn't come down to a guessing game. Like the password example earlier, though, you could give observant players hints at where they needed to navigate to. A list of emails on a CEO's computer by itself is just noise to sift through for what you're after, but observant players may notice the Secret Project X file on Dr. Smith's desk downstairs. They'd know that's the mail they need. Add in some unrelated hints in other emails or files, like hidden compartment locations or personal information on someone that may prove beneficial later, and going through the files would be less of a chore.

super...
15th Jun 2010, 11:22
ugh! no no no no! i cant spell worth a dman and i always got the hackking aug just so i could AVOID finding a password and having to write the thing down. do you know how crazy you look when you have a piece of paper next to your computer with a bunch of deus ex logins and passwords written down "smash the state" "knight killer"

also how would people enter codes without a key board handy? maybe they should include the option of manual input on the pc version (i would be fine if this was used to hide a few easter eggs.)

Badmaker
15th Jun 2010, 11:44
@super..., lol dude. In DX1, all the passwords, key codes and logins where auto-added in your notes section interface. :D

beastosterone
15th Jun 2010, 11:59
Yes but you had to MANUALLY remember them or read your notes - not just press the terminal and magically it works

neoWilks
15th Jun 2010, 12:26
I agree with Super. Whenever I play Deus Ex I have to keep a piece of scratch paper nearby to keep track of all the passwords, pins, and logins I come across. Though after enough play throughs they start to sink into your head. I don't think I need to discover half the key codes anymore to get through doors.

Best option: If I know the code, enter it automatically. If I don't give me the option to guess. If it's something like a computer with multiple logins, give me a list of known logins I can select from.

Ashpolt
15th Jun 2010, 12:46
Best option: If I know the code, enter it automatically. If I don't give me the option to guess. If it's something like a computer with multiple logins, give me a list of known logins I can select from.

I'd rather enter it manually even if I already know it, to be honest. That's one of those little touches that I really loved about DX, and was disappointed wasn't in DXIW.

Destroyerzero
15th Jun 2010, 12:46
Well DXHR is a prequal, but still falls under the same scope.

What I want to see is the level of interraction as with the first DeusEx. The first DeusEx was known for being able to read tons of books, hack emails, take turrets, hack ATMs and practically almost put anything in your inventory.

I would also like political correctness to be avoided. I love the shocking screenshots and graphics....that other games would refrain from doing.

Finally, I would love the idea of the original to come out....the idea I could beat a level in different ways and take different paths through it. Micro-Roleplaying is very important to me (and everyone else) as it adds a lot of replay value. Original DeusEx was known for players discovering something new each time they replayed through the game. I don't want to lose that element.

neoWilks
15th Jun 2010, 13:05
I'd rather enter it manually even if I already know it, to be honest. That's one of those little touches that I really loved about DX, and was disappointed wasn't in DXIW.
Easy fix. Always allow for manual entry. But also provide a list of known codes to quick key it in.

Toggling between my notes and the login/keypad screen was just such a chore in certain cases. Not a huge deal for 4-digit codes found just before the door you need to use it at. But when you come across two or three different passwords in a level or when you're got a particularly lengthy string of numbers and letters, it can take a few checks before you enter the proper code. That just gets tiring.

PenguinsFriend
15th Jun 2010, 13:12
OK - I have augs that make me jump over buildings but I still have to enter pass codes manualy on a hack? FAIL!

If you have the code, fine, enter it maualy. And if you don't, guess it. BUT if you don't have it and are using a hack attempt, then pull a cord out of my abdomen (or As$ - you pick), plug it in and initiate a hack - 'nough said.

It's not that complicated peeps - after all, Adam's augmented, no?

Obnoxious Frog
15th Jun 2010, 13:21
You don't need to hack if you have the password or code. Besides, the point is more about adding to the general atmosphere than whether Adam is capable of doing it differently.

Badmaker
15th Jun 2010, 13:22
Are these people too dumb to manualy enter keycodes or im wrong ?

TrickyVein
15th Jun 2010, 13:51
I'm just going to say that nothing beats the gaming experience of having to enter in a correct, case-sensitive login when you're in the heat of the moment, the crap's hit the fan, guards are looking for you, and you need to access a door/security terminal/turret, whatever - very good test of how well you function under pressure.

Pinky_Powers
15th Jun 2010, 15:26
It's true. The manual aspect of the original was potent in its atmosphere and over-all feel.

D. Denton
15th Jun 2010, 15:29
That's what made Deus Ex so cool in the first place I loved to write down account numbers and pincodes.
It gave me more the feeling it was actually me playing as JC Denton.
Just like the keypads it added an extra dimension to the game it felt cool but hey that's just my opinion.
But what about a function in the option menu to auto fill password and login names or not so you have to do it manually or maybe as an augment the higher the augment the easier it get's like level 1 being able to hack level 2 auto add Login name or account number while at level 3 it automaticly fills in the password or pincode that is if you have found the info offcourse.

super...
16th Jun 2010, 12:12
yeah because i buy a computer game because it lets me feel like i'm using a computer, what a cool and original experience

Obnoxious Frog
16th Jun 2010, 12:36
You're...not actually a gamer, are you?

I'd go into the difference between that and a game player, but you'd probably miss that point too.

super...
17th Jun 2010, 07:12
wow do we really need a culture of exclusiveness and divisions? but if you want to compare the relative size of our members, i'm game. I have been to every west coast PAX, even made it the the first necrowabicon. You probably don't even know what a necrowambicon is. I design games and have had my games published by leading entertainment companies. I live in america but my first was published in Germany, in the German language, at Essen spiel. i understand if that credential is a little too obscure for you to get.

Why should I look down at a key board when i'm trying to play a game, what could possibly do more to pull me out of the character i'm trying to play. can i actually shoot someone? no i could never pull the trigger. JC can and does so often. so if playing a video game video game can let me fantasize about being a bad ass why cant it let me fantasize about being able to remember strings of random numbers and how to spell esoteric words. i will tell you one thing JC looks like a total jack ass when he is trying to log into his own damn e-mail for the tenth time.

Ashpolt
17th Jun 2010, 11:53
wow do we really need a culture of exclusiveness and divisions? but if you want to compare the relative size of our members, i'm game. I have been to every west coast PAX, even made it the the first necrowabicon. You probably don't even know what a necrowambicon is. I design games and have had my games published by leading entertainment companies. I live in america but my first was published in Germany, in the German language, at Essen spiel. i understand if that credential is a little too obscure for you to get.

This entire paragraph reminds me of a joke...

"How many pretentious gits does it take to change a lightbulb?"
"It's an obscure number, you probably haven't heard of it."


Why should I look down at a key board when i'm trying to play a game, what could possibly do more to pull me out of the character i'm trying to play.

I dunno, if your character is using a keyboard at the time (as would be the case here) it doesn't seem to me that it would break immersion at all....like in the original Deus Ex. I go up to a computer, and I use a computer interface. Perfectly natural.

dropthesky
17th Jun 2010, 17:29
Seriously you go into JC's office "use" his computer, the interface pops up and now I'm actually typing in his login and password. Now my keyboard is actually apart of the gaming experience. Now my hands typing bionicman are actually JC's hands. Doesn't get much cooler than that. You would think a well traveled game designer with obscure credentials would understand that. (cyring: "I have to type in passwords!" sounds like my little sister, not anyone who knows anything about immersive RPG experiences.


i will tell you one thing JC looks like a total jack ass when he is trying to log into his own damn e-mail for the tenth time.

JC doesn't look like a jack ass. You do.

Pinky_Powers
17th Jun 2010, 17:33
JC doesn't look like a jack ass. You do.

lmao. So true.

super...
17th Jun 2010, 18:27
Seriously you go into JC's office "use" his computer, the interface pops up and now I'm actually typing in his login and password. Now my keyboard is actually apart of the gaming experience. Now my hands typing bionicman are actually JC's hands. Doesn't get much cooler than that. You would think a well traveled game designer with obscure credentials would understand that. (cyring: "I have to type in passwords!" sounds like my little sister, not anyone who knows anything about immersive RPG experiences.

JC doesn't look like a jack ass. You do.

I come from a Neanderthal stock, bred for hunting, surviving the winter and virility. Yes I understand entering pass codes manually can be very immersive, the keyboard is the perfect peripheral for replicating a keyboard! it's like rock band drums, the problem is it's immersing you in the WORST part of using a computer. like if there was rock band roadie you have to load and unload all the instruments but never get to play them.

MANY people have issues with passwords and logins, remembering abstract numbers and how too spell new words, especially with English is terrible. There will eventually be far better systems for protecting our information and identities so why not invent some fiction and let us play without all the hassle.

Pinky_Powers
17th Jun 2010, 18:35
I come from a Neanderthal stock, bred for hunting, surviving the winter and virility. Yes I understand entering pass codes manually can be very immersive, the keyboard is the perfect peripheral for replicating a keyboard! it's like rock band drums, the problem is it's immersing you in the WORST part of using a computer. like if there was rock band roadie you have to load and unload all the instruments but never get to play them.

MANY people have issues with passwords and logins, remembering abstract numbers and how too spell new words, especially with English is terrible. There will eventually be far better systems for protecting our information and identities so why not invent some fiction and let us play without all the hassle.

Because the hassle is part of the reality. It makes you think. It makes cracking into a secure system seem like actual work, and is therefore all the more rewarding when you get it right.

Personally, I could use with a little less hassle, as I'm really bad at spelling. So an update to the system would be nice. Maybe when you bring up the Log-In interface, the user ID and Password could be displayed next to it. As though your character had written it down and placed it next to the keyboard when he begins. But more futuristic. Maybe the information is displayed through his Aug-Shades.

Anasumtj
17th Jun 2010, 19:17
Pepper spray.


Why should I look down at a key board when i'm trying to play a game, what could possibly do more to pull me out of the character i'm trying to play.

1. If you are hacking a computer terminal, you are using a keyboard in-game. Mindblowing, I know.

2. If looking at your keyboard breaks immersion for you, learn to type...? You're 24, it shouldn't be hard.

Ilves
17th Jun 2010, 19:23
yeah because i buy a computer game because it lets me feel like i'm using a computer, what a cool and original experience

Don't mean to ruffle your feathers, but I find this troubling coming from a gamedesigner...


I'm just going to say that nothing beats the gaming experience of having to enter in a correct, case-sensitive login when you're in the heat of the moment, the crap's hit the fan, guards are looking for you, and you need to access a door/security terminal/turret, whatever - very good test of how well you function under pressure.

See? He gets it.

D. Denton
19th Jun 2010, 22:33
I'm glad more off you guys agree with me. It's about the overall experience and not just about hey I buy a computer and what the hell when I use a computer in game I need to use my keyboard to enter a login.... uuhh then buy a console mate maybe it's more realistic for you but for most off us well it's part off DX and it stays part off it.
I'm sure if someone or some company of it mathers releases a game where you need to put in passwords and logins like in DX the first thing that comes up is DX!!

IOOI
20th Jun 2010, 01:46
I'm just going to say that nothing beats the gaming experience of having to enter in a correct, case-sensitive login when you're in the heat of the moment, the crap's hit the fan, guards are looking for you, and you need to access a door/security terminal/turret, whatever - very good test of how well you function under pressure.

Yes that's is really thrilling. :thumb:


So what did you feel are the most important parts of Deus Ex that NEED to be in HR or any other DX game and if you could make a hard core equivalent of that mechanic what would it be?

It should be possible to answer to some e-mails:



Adam receives an e-mail from an informer in the Hotel where he's staying: "So I have some informations for you. Do you have credits?". To reply, Adam has some options: 1) "I'm a player and I know you like bets. Meet me in the Casino downstairs at 10:00 PM."; 2) "I like treating business in private. We meet up at the parking garage at 7:00 PM." 3) "Why can't we meet up in a public space? Join me for dinner at the restaurant at 8:00 PM."

There are several possibilities that can influence the outcome of this meeting. Adam could get beeing betrayed or not - depending if Adam has done any harm to some allie of the informer... or if Adam has done some big favours for the informer and they are big friends... or if Adam could negotiate somehow with informer in order to not get involved in a fight... or simply because the place Adam chose isn't appropriate for a struggle (the Casino or the Restaurant).

Pretentious Old Man.
20th Jun 2010, 21:26
the keyboard is the perfect peripheral for replicating a keyboard!.

I think you'll find that there are over 9000 superior peripherals for replicating a keyboard. A bomb, for instance. Keep it in mind.

Qwfwq
21st Jun 2010, 01:30
We can argue until the cows come home (which will never happen, as there are no cows here) about whether typing in passwords is good or bad.

But I don't think anyone is seriously going to say that it's critical to "any legitimate sequel."

Global conspiracy, augmentations, secret agent man, "my vision is augmented," and a million billion approaches to every mission: definitely must-haves. Typing in passwords at terminals? Seriously?

The quality of the game overall can be largely independent of its fidelity to the original. At the same time, such fidelity is conveyed through its aesthetic, its tone, and the gestalt of certain details. But any given detail is very unlikely to detract from the final product if it is well executed and generally faithful to its namesake.

I personally have no interest in a facsimile of DX, which is easily my favorite game ever. I want to see new and interesting ideas applied to a game that captures that je ne sais quoi of DX. I think it is a mistake to view every deviation from the original with such skepticism.

Let the game be judged in two ways. On the one hand, the final product will either be fun, engrossing, immersive, etc. or not; this has little to do with the appropriateness of the moniker. From the other perspective — with regard to whether it deserves its aspiration of being a DX game — I think we will all "know it when we see it," with apologies to The Hon. Stewart.

jtr7
21st Jun 2010, 02:26
When the gaming monitor is replaced with a touch-screen, the keyboard won't be an issue for entering codes. It's quite a gift to be able to play a video game and never notice the controllers while doing it. As for me, I cannot play a video game and not notice I am controlling the character and interacting with the world using only fingers, and wrists, and whole arms, to input commands through an interface to have the software animate the gist only accordingly half the time. I can't separate it, but I still get immersed enough to have involuntary reactions as if I'm there. I'm curious to know how much "super..." likes 3rd-person.

Invictus Sol
21st Jun 2010, 02:40
I'm really hoping the music is very similar, or they even use old tracks from DX, it had probably the best soundtrack of any game i've played, really played in to the atmosphere.

Speaking of the music, did anyone else miss the track that was pulled out of the original game once the GOTY version was released? The track was played during the cut-scene immediately after JC jumps onboard Jock's helicopter on the top of the 'ton's roof on the way to the Brooklyn navel shipyards. It was a great track, but for some reason was removed on the GOTY version. If anyone has a link to it, I'd be grateful.