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View Full Version : Very good news from the new Game Informer I just received!



ShadowXOR
10th Jun 2010, 02:32
It contains all screenshots we've already seen in other magazines previously. There's only one I hadn't seen before but I've heard it mentioned in another thread just no one has posted a scan of it yet, but it has a room with tons of light bulbs on the ceiling with Adam pointing a gun at someone. If someone really wants it tell me and I can try to take a picture.

Anyway here's the good new info that I haven't heard before.

Good News:

- Inventory is confirmed to still be in.
- They appear to be taking the Deus Ex 1 skill system seriously. It almost sounds like the Invisible War system where everything is augs. I know that sounds bad, but it sounds like there are a lot more in this game, and they still do have experience which encourages exploration.
- New details on augs we already knew about.

Details:

"When I suggest (the magazine writer) that the RPG elements might be a bit downplayed from the previous games, Dugas is quick to step in with an "I don't think so." He explains that the team started out with a skill system very reminiscent of the first Deus ex, but as the game's plot became more focused on augmentations they decided it made more sense to put all the power within them. They didn't remove any skills from the game entirely they just tied them to augmentations. Aug powered abilities include smart vision to see through walls, an aiming stabilizer to lessen gun recoil, an Icarus system that allows you to jump to (never heard you could jump higher with Icarus, I loved that in the original) or fall from great heights and even a claymore style explosion that you can create with your hands. Each level up provides new abilities related to the augmentation. "Strength level one might give more inventory space" Dugas says. "Then strength level two may allow you to punch through walls."

My Take: AWESOME!

Mixed News:

- The dialogue system now uses emotion selections rather than choosing the actual dialogue.

Details:

"He demonstrates the games dialogue system by showing a confrontation between protagonist Adam Jensen and a gruff bartender. Options for dialogue are presented as emotions or moods rather than a full sentence. For example, Jensen could try to be persuasive or friendly, or he could match the bartender's surly attitude with an agressive response."

My Take: This could be good as I enjoyed in Mass Effect where they gave you a rough idea of what your character would say and it was surprising and fun reading the dialogue. However in Deus Ex you saw the full sentence so there was no confusion and you aren't surprised when they react differently than you would expect.

Bad News:

- They kind of mention Invisible War as somewhat inspirational for HR but it could be misinterpreted based on the info we have in the FAQ and that we've seen in other interviews.

Details:

The magazine mentions both positive and negative things about Invisible War almost contradicting each other. I'm not sure if the info is just the magazine interpreting it on their own or if EM actually said something like this. The two parts are: "It's been 10 years since the original Deus Ex arrived on PC and redefined the first person shooter for many games. It's been seven years since the less-beloved sequel, Deus Ex: Invislbe War."

That makes it sound negative but then they say something positive which I don't like since I hated IW: "They carefully picked apart the first two releases and tried to pinpoint what made them so beloved."

My Take: WTF, Invisible War is not beloved.

ShadowXOR
10th Jun 2010, 02:55
The article is fully cleaned up and good to go tell me if you have any questions. :)

hem dazon 90
10th Jun 2010, 02:55
kewl

Unstoppable
10th Jun 2010, 03:11
That's just a writers opinion about the Invisible War thing. Some people actually liked Invisible War. I thought it was ok but dissapointing. There are some good things about it though it's not an all bad games, however the bad outweighed the good.

Rindill the Red
10th Jun 2010, 03:15
I don't think anyone would call Invisible War beloved; tolerable, maybe, but not beloved.
That being said, the only thing I really "liked" about IW was the new augs.

Deus_Ex_Machina
10th Jun 2010, 03:20
The information from that article gives me mixed feelings, but I'm now feeling a bit more cautious and possibly even pessimistic about DXHR.

In-game footage will either confirm my fears or dispel them. I guess I'll find out next week at E3 (hopefully).

ShadowXOR
10th Jun 2010, 03:29
The information from that article gives me mixed feelings, but I'm now feeling a bit more cautious and possibly even pessimistic about DXHR.

In-game footage will either confirm my fears or dispel them. I guess I'll find out next week at E3 (hopefully).

Odd...the article made me feel much more optimistic about the chances of it being great.

Pretty much the only thing from Invisible War I remember standing out as cool was the glass that trips an alarm and the gun mod that makes it so glass breaks silently and without tripping said alarms.

dropthesky
10th Jun 2010, 03:50
be better if skills were in.

Jerion
10th Jun 2010, 04:08
be better if skills were in.

You mean, as traditional "skills"? A sucker for the traditional system, eh?

Deus_Ex_Machina
10th Jun 2010, 04:13
You mean, as traditional "skills"? A sucker for the traditional system, eh?

Well, the original DX was a traditional RPG...

I know DXHR won't be a traditional RPG at all. I've known for a while now as it's just too much to ask for in this day and age (sadly).

I guess the best we can hope for with DXHR (realistically) is something on par with DXIW or, hopefully, something better. It's damn near impossible for DXHR to be on par with the original DX.

Jerion
10th Jun 2010, 04:27
Well, the original DX was a traditional RPG...

I know DXHR won't be a traditional RPG at all. I've known for a while now as it's just too much to ask for in this day and age (sadly).

I guess the best we can hope for with DXHR (realistically) is something on par with DXIW or, hopefully, something better. It's damn near impossible for DXHR to be on par with the original DX.

HR is an RPG too. It just forgoes a couple RPG traditions, like a dedicated skills screen.

Deus_Ex_Machina
10th Jun 2010, 04:58
HR is an RPG too. It just forgoes a couple RPG traditions, like a dedicated skills screen.

I know DXHR is an RPG. But it's definitely not a traditional RPG like say the original DX or Oblivion.

My expectations for DXHR are either a toned down RPG experience similar to DXIW or something even more toned down like an action RPG in the same vein as Fable.

Kodaemon
10th Jun 2010, 05:08
Thanks for the info.

It seems aug levels are "skill tree" like. Might be interesting.

The "attitude based" conversations I'm not digging :/ With a system like that, you never really know what your character will say, and it leads to the sort of abuse like in the Mass Effect games, where sometimes picking any option leads to the character saying the exact same line.

The IW thing is irrelevant. Devs can't just say "Yeah we know Invisible War sucked ass and we'll just ignore it completely." That doesn't make the publisher look good, does it? It's more important that they're stressing focus on DX1 more than IW.

Irate_Iguana
10th Jun 2010, 07:00
- The dialogue system now uses emotion selections rather than choosing the actual dialogue.


This is ****. I was hoping it was a mistranslation somewhere in the other articles, but it appears that it will be in the game. I hate this development in games. I thought ME's system was already irritating, but with the short description you at least got some idea of what was going to be said. AP's system is complete ****. There is nothing fun or interesting about being completely unaware of what your character is going to be saying until after you click the option. The only positive is that there will be no timer.

What the hell is wrong with selecting an entire sentence? Are people these days really so afraid of reading that even your own dialog options are too much? Is that that they are incapable of inferring tone from text? It's the consoles, isn't it?

Kruxs
10th Jun 2010, 07:30
This is ****. I was hoping it was a mistranslation somewhere in the other articles, but it appears that it will be in the game. I hate this development in games. I thought ME's system was already irritating, but with the short description you at least got some idea of what was going to be said. AP's system is complete ****. There is nothing fun or interesting about being completely unaware of what your character is going to be saying until after you click the option. The only positive is that there will be no timer.

What the hell is wrong with selecting an entire sentence? Are people these days really so afraid of reading that even your own dialog options are too much? Is that that they are incapable of inferring tone from text? It's the consoles, isn't it?

This seems like an odd thing to get upset about. :poke:

Kodaemon
10th Jun 2010, 07:41
This seems like an odd thing to get upset about. :poke:

It deteriorates the RPG aspect. Let's use an example:

You have the "select full sentence" option. One of the options is a joke sentence. If you find the joke funny, you might use it. If you don't you'll probably choose a different option.

Now, the emotion system: you select "JOKE". Adam says something so flat or stupid it makes you cringe. Conversation ruined.

Sabretooth1
10th Jun 2010, 07:44
This is ****. I was hoping it was a mistranslation somewhere in the other articles, but it appears that it will be in the game. I hate this development in games. I thought ME's system was already irritating, but with the short description you at least got some idea of what was going to be said. AP's system is complete ****. There is nothing fun or interesting about being completely unaware of what your character is going to be saying until after you click the option. The only positive is that there will be no timer.
I'm playing AP and I really don't see what's up with all the hate for it. Why is the timer based system bad? It makes conversations flow more smoothly, instead of the bizarre conversations with 20 seconds of staring into each others' faces. The obvious downside to the system is of course, that you have to respond by instinct and not complete lines, and that options have to be limited. I didn't think it was so bad, and at least it didn't give you a wholly different response like in ME.


What the hell is wrong with selecting an entire sentence? Are people these days really so afraid of reading that even your own dialog options are too much? Is that that they are incapable of inferring tone from text? It's the consoles, isn't it?
Yes, it is the consoles. I don't know if you've ever seen laymen play roleplaying games, but if you have, they absolutely hate reading, long conversations without action and having to mess with inventories and texts and follow complicated objectives.

Spyhopping
10th Jun 2010, 07:58
I'll wait to try the whole "pick an emotion", it has potential to work fine. But I'd prefer a higher level of control, it could be really frustrating if his responses are unpredictable.

There should surely be occasions where a response isn't so clear cut to be defined by just one emotion. With a system like it, how will they represent a conversation like the one with the Aussie bartender? There should be situations where you simply trigger an interesting conversation about a certain issue, rather than responses based on a specific emotion.

Senka
10th Jun 2010, 08:14
rage

I prefer it, more interesting to hear what they, not you actually say and then you're not simply listening to something you just read. Not saying the old system sucks, I'd be happy with either. Probably 1 teeny bit happier with this.

SageSavage
10th Jun 2010, 08:18
I don't think selecting emotions instead of sentences is necessarily a bad idea. If Adam's dialogue lines aren't voiced or written out (instead of a pre-written surprise line), this leaves much more to the players own imagination (role playing) while the essence of what he wants to communicate is an even more concsiouss joyce (i.e. "angry response", "charming remark").

I guess that wouldn't fit in with 3rd person-view during conversations, though.

ZakKa89
10th Jun 2010, 08:29
"Strength level one might give more inventory space" Dugas says. "Then strength level two may allow you to punch through walls."

THIS is what i wanted to hear.



What the hell is wrong with selecting an entire sentence? Are people these days really so afraid of reading that even your own dialog options are too much? Is that that they are incapable of inferring tone from text? It's the consoles, isn't it?


I think the emotional system is better. Why?

- You don't have to read long sentences, before choosing one and then AGAIN hear what just read.
- There's the suprise of what your character is going to say.
- If you read the sentence first, it will take away from the experience of what the character is going to say. Example: When your character makes a joke or funny remark that has a climax on the end of a sentence. It's just less funny/cool when you already know what he's going to say.
- quicker conversations.

Irate_Iguana
10th Jun 2010, 08:32
This seems like an odd thing to get upset about. :poke:

Because to me it ruins any potential for interesting dialog. Instead of becoming a way to interact with the world it becomes a mere mini-game to get a desired result out of a NPC. There is no way to tell what the outcome of an option might be because you have no idea what is going to be said. You no longer select responses because you think they are appropriate for the character, you select them because you think they might get you to win the talk mini-game. Both systems allow you to have consequences for talking to a NPC. With the normal system you arrive at a certain consequence because of a specific chosen path. The emotion system gives you a consequence because you beat the game.

MaxxQ1
10th Jun 2010, 08:42
I think the emotional system is better. Why?

- You don't have to read long sentences, before choosing one and then AGAIN hear what just read.

Yes, because reading sentences of more than three words is just *so* difficult. :rolleyes:


- There's the suprise of what your character going to say.

You still get the suprise when you read it for the first time. What's the difference?


- If you read the sentence first, it will take away from the experience of what the character is going to say.

Really? Whether you read it or listen to him say it, your still getting the experience of what he's going to say.


- quicker conversations.

Only because you don't have to slog through a sentence with more than three words.

Lady_Of_The_Vine
10th Jun 2010, 08:46
Thanks for this info. Interesting opinions there. I'm going to wait for gameplay footage... it must surely be coming. :cool:


I don't think anyone would call Invisible War beloved; tolerable, maybe, but not beloved.
That being said, the only thing I really "liked" about IW was the new augs.

You forgot to mention the Omar. :mad:





















:p

ZakKa89
10th Jun 2010, 08:46
Thanks for responding, my english isnt very good so I will try to explain better (third language). Bold sentences are mine.


Yes, because reading sentences of more than three words is just *so* difficult. :rolleyes:

It's not with the reading I have difficulty with. It's just uncool to first read it and then HEAR it again. I want to hear/read the sentence 1 time only.


You still get the surprise when you read it for the first time. What's the difference?

Good question. The difference is HUGE. The difference is that LISTENING to it while watching the facial animations of the character FIRST is better in my opinion.

Really? Whether you read it or listen to him say it, your still getting the experience of what he's going to say.

Again, don't agree. listening while seeing facial emotion is better imo.

Irate_Iguana
10th Jun 2010, 08:58
It's not with the reading I have difficulty with. It's just uncool to first read it and then HEAR it again. I want to hear/read the sentence 1 time only.

What makes this such a huge difference? If you select the option you get to hear and see Adam do the selected bit of dialog. Why is it suddenly ruined if you have read the bit of dialog before? The same thing will happen if you replay the game. Dialog is already spoiled.

minus0ne
10th Jun 2010, 08:58
And just when we thought it couldn't get (much) worse.









It did.

ZakKa89
10th Jun 2010, 09:02
What makes this such a huge difference? If you select the option you get to hear and see Adam do the selected bit of dialog. Why is it suddenly ruined if you have read the bit of dialog before? The same thing will happen if you replay the game. Dialog is already spoiled.

I think I explained it rather well in my last post. It's "ruined" because I already know what he is going ti say, like a tiny spoiler. Yes, the same thing will happen if I replay the game, but not the first time I will play it. So that argument is invalid in my opinion. I don't have a lot else to add to my previous post.

The answer to your question is actually in my previous post. You didn't quote this sentence of mine: "The difference is that LISTENING to it while watching the facial animations of the character FIRST is better in my opinion".

minus0ne
10th Jun 2010, 09:09
Ah yes, the split second it takes to read a response totally ruins everything :rolleyes:

It's almost as frustrating as knowing what's going to happen when you press "w".

68_pie
10th Jun 2010, 09:15
Negatives:

Convo system - not a fan.

I want to know exactly what I am going to say so that there are no accidental misinterpretations.
The original Deus Ex hardly had long conversations too read - no more than a sentence to read and then choose as far as I remember (unlike something like Planescape: Torment) so it's not like they will be much quicker.
I like long conversations (Planescape: Torment et al).
Why would I want them to be quicker - the game isnt just about action.
The character knows exactly what he is going to say - this is an rpg - therefore I am the character - therefore I should know exactly what I am going to say.
I find it harder to RP using emotion based conversation.

Skills/Augs

I would rather have a skill system that is improved over DX and have augs rather than just having augs.


Neither here nor there:

In games wher you do not have fully voiced conversations (mainly older rpgs) you only saw the conversation once instead of the twice that people seem to be complaining about. If I had to choose I would rather have full text conversations than voiced, emotion based conversations.

I never cared for the Omar

ZakKa89
10th Jun 2010, 09:24
hmm this needs a poll : )

Irate_Iguana
10th Jun 2010, 09:30
hmm this needs a poll : )

Don't! Before you'll know it you'll want to start a poll on health regen and 3rd person. That's what this board does to a man. It makes him crave polls.

Blade_hunter
10th Jun 2010, 09:38
Nothing new and even the awesome part is very mixed with a lot of bad, we already know that part, the only good part is the recoil upgrade, the fact that the inventory is DX style is already known.
Second what rené told to me you manage weapons and ammo in (I still don't know if there is some gadgets) and the items can be rotated in, so a tetrisish inventory

And invisible war had many things wrong but some things right. and I don't liked it, but I don't say that's a complete crap either, to be fair that's a very bad Deus Ex game

Badmaker
10th Jun 2010, 09:47
No DX1 system conversations ? whaaaaat ?
I was very happy to hear that DX3 is in development, the trailer, the screens, the weapons ...all those things made the impression that this game will be game of the year.

But hearing the regen system, 3rd person camera, cover system and now THIS ? Emotional conversations ?
Seems that this game will have the same fate like IW.

K.Karisma
10th Jun 2010, 09:53
Seems a lot of people are making quick judgements on a system they've only read a paragraph on, like this system will ruin the entire game, just chill the hell out.

Deus_Ex_Machina
10th Jun 2010, 09:55
Seems a lot of people are making quick judgements on a system they've only read a paragraph on, like this system will ruin the entire game, just chill the hell out.

I don't think people are judging DXHR already so much as preparing for the worst, which unfortunately is reasonable considering all the selling out that's plaguing the industry at the moment.

ZakKa89
10th Jun 2010, 09:56
Don't! Before you'll know it you'll want to start a poll on health regen and 3rd person. That's what this board does to a man. It makes him crave polls.


Haha I know there have been tons of polls on those subjects. I was joking!

biofuel
10th Jun 2010, 10:01
this game will be crap, and you know it!

minus0ne
10th Jun 2010, 10:01
Nothing new and even the awesome part is very mixed with a lot of bad, we already know that part, the only good part is the recoil upgrade, the fact that the inventory is DX style is already known.
Second what rené told to me you manage weapons and ammo in (I still don't know if there is some gadgets) and the items can be rotated in, so a tetrisish inventory

And invisible war had many things wrong but some things right. and I don't liked it, but I don't say that's a complete crap either, to be fair that's a very bad Deus Ex game
I think you read past the worst bits (note: OP doesn't know good news from bad news so read it all), which are new, or at least to me.


No DX1 system conversations ? whaaaaat ?
I was very happy to hear that DX3 is in development, the trailer, the screens, the weapons ...all those things made the impression that this game will be game of the year.

But hearing the regen system, 3rd person camera, cover system and now THIS ? Emotional conversations ?
Seems that this game will have the same fate like IW.
I'd call this "feature" non-dimensional conversations (because calling it one-dimensional seems like a compliment).

Or in other word:

_________Friendly.

Angry._____________Cookie?


_________Claymore.

Irate_Iguana
10th Jun 2010, 10:04
Or in other word:

_________Friendly.

Angry._____________Cookie?


_________Claymore.

If this system HAS to be implemented, I vote CLAYMORE should be an option in any and all conversations.

Badmaker
10th Jun 2010, 10:05
@minus0ne, yes, thats exactly what i meant, it sux.

JimHefti
10th Jun 2010, 10:23
What the hell is wrong with selecting an entire sentence? Are people these days really so afraid of reading that even your own dialog options are too much? Is that that they are incapable of inferring tone from text? It's the consoles, isn't it?

I assume that there will be a decent amount of talking, and that they're going with fully voiced PC. So, the developer wishes to make the game more cinematic, especially when you're involved in a conversation, so by having simple choices, you can select your choice quicker, making the conversation flow quicker. If they were going for a more old school, there would be no voiced PC and you'd be able to read your entire line, ala Fallout 3 or Dragon Age:Origins. So it's more of a style choice than a choice based people being "afraid" to read. And not reading has more to do with TV culture than consoles imo.

Also, totally off-topic, but blaming things you don't like on consoles is the 21st century, gaming equivalent of racism. Consolism call it. For example, for Fallout 3, some old-school fans (of which I am one) called the switch to first person "dumbing it down for console users", when it was clearly a decision based on the game engine that Bethesda had already developed and were already using when they announced the game, due to their previous experience with it, rather that a decision made around a table that because the game was going to consoles, they better drop the iso perspective, beacause "console retards" can't handle it. /rant

68_pie
10th Jun 2010, 10:28
FP was hardly the one of the main problems with Fallout 3.

Kodaemon
10th Jun 2010, 10:43
For some reason the Claymore option sounds like SHEPARD PAWNCH mixed with the involuntary missile massacre reflex of Lucille from Samurai Pizza Cats. I like it.

minus0ne
10th Jun 2010, 10:57
So, the developer wishes to make the game more cinematic
You mean; less game-y.

Heh.

Daedalus Ciarán
10th Jun 2010, 10:58
My own experience with the modern conversation system was in Mass Effect:

Does anyone remember when you had to calm down Wrex, and if you didn't manange to do it he would be killed? Well on my first play through I got to the pivotal moment in the conversation and one of the options was

"There's another way."

Or something to that extent. When I read that I figured, "Hey, that means I'll be able to convince Wrex to attack this base and steal all the Genophage cure research." After all, that seemed to me to be a perfectly reasonable compromise, and a smart plan of attack. So anyway, I selected that option. And Shepard didn't say "There's another way." or anything I thought he would say. He said something to the effect of

"We'll find another way after this, but we have to destroy this place. We can't let the Geth have the cure."

And thus Wrex said no, and was shot. Now, the difference between DX1 conversation system and every other one is that you don't know what you're going to say. That doesn't make things exciting, it makes things frustrating. How can I legitimately feel like I'm the character when I don't know what's going to come out of my mouth? Let me decide what I want to say, and how I want to say it. If you don't, well you're no better than Invisible War.

Oh, and big feather in EM's caps for following IW's take on skills and augmentation. Nice to see they're avoiding the dumbing down of IW and staying true to the original.

CHT
10th Jun 2010, 11:11
I wish they wouldn´t go the ME and AP route with the dialogue options.
Make it more cinematic - yes, but not at the expense of not knowing what my character is about to say.

I really love ME and AP, so much, that I know what will be said when I choose a shortened answer choice (at least with ME - AP is too new).

The rest of the news sounds good, but I really hope the game will not be mission based and that you can travel in between missions and make side missions.

Blade_hunter
10th Jun 2010, 11:39
I think you read past the worst bits (note: OP doesn't know good news from bad news so read it all), which are new, or at least to me.

Oh yeah I've read really worse bits, those things in the good part are nothing compared to some other elements.

dropthesky
10th Jun 2010, 12:47
I like that they seem serious on making conversation a large part of this game, just like in the original. I'm not sure how someone would like an emotion based response better than the text however. While playing DX you would pick a certain response and sometimes the NPC wouldn't react how you'd hope and you wouldn't gain their favor or something to that effect. After these instances I would think, "Damn, maybe I shouldn't have said that." Which is a hell of a lot more natural than, "Damn, I shouldn't have felt? that way?"

I think the best system would combine the two. Because it's true in DX you may read something and it honestly comes out of JC a bit harsher than you think it might. Having the sentence with the tone/emotion it will be conveyed in is undoubtedly gives the gamer more control. Which is really all this is about. Fans of the original DX want the most control possible and emotions don't offer as much as full sentences.

mad_red
10th Jun 2010, 12:53
Hey guys, please think before you say something you didn't mean.

... oh :(

Never mind, thinking was never suited to Deus Ex anyway.

Pinky_Powers
10th Jun 2010, 13:12
I appreciate what they're doing with the emotion-based conversation system. I like the Mass Effect system best of all, but this sounds perhaps even better... we'll have to see.

I honestly don't like being given all my dialog options, word for word, reading them all through carefully, deciding, choosing one, then hearing it play out exactly as I read it. It takes me out of the game and doesn't feel very authentic. The emotion system is actually very truthful to how people operate in conversation; whether they're happy or mad, tactful or reckless.

I approve.

InGroove2
10th Jun 2010, 13:23
HR is an RPG too. It just forgoes a couple RPG traditions, like a dedicated skills screen.

right! and also it just seems like it makes alot of sense intuitively, that as a mechanically augmented dude that a regular skill set doesn't really have a place. i mean, if you "learn" to jump higher... is that a result of the aug or just what you learned for your regular legs/body? if you learned jumping in a normal way and then get a leg mod... woudlln't you then have to relearn jumping in a way? or at least it would be different?

it just makes more sense to have things tied to the augs. as long as there are skills and a whole bunch of choices to be made, i can't see hanging onto the old system, it just doesn't seem relevant to being a mech.

InGroove2
10th Jun 2010, 13:30
This is ****. I was hoping it was a mistranslation somewhere in the other articles, but it appears that it will be in the game. I hate this development in games. I thought ME's system was already irritating, but with the short description you at least got some idea of what was going to be said. AP's system is complete ****. There is nothing fun or interesting about being completely unaware of what your character is going to be saying until after you click the option. The only positive is that there will be no timer.

What the hell is wrong with selecting an entire sentence? Are people these days really so afraid of reading that even your own dialog options are too much? Is that that they are incapable of inferring tone from text? It's the consoles, isn't it?

yeah it's kinda weak.

but i wonder if this kind of decision is because people interperet sentences in different ways. i can remember playing DX and reading a line and picking it, and then when JC said it... just wasn't exactly how i imagined it would be said. so maybe giving the option of just the intended emotion is... more diplomatic?

i'm not into the idea totally, but i suppose i can see that as an argument for it.

and really, in DX, about half the time, the dialogue you chose did not have a different outcome, you just chose the line you liked better... the other half of the time it mattered... obviously.

Angel/0A
10th Jun 2010, 14:15
Or in other word:

_________Friendly.

Angry._____________Cookie?


_________Claymore.

More like:

_________Claymore.

Claymore._____________Claymore?

_________Claymore!

http://www.threepanelsoul.com/view.php?date=2007-12-29

Blade_hunter
10th Jun 2010, 14:23
That's the strike

Eabin
10th Jun 2010, 15:14
i'm not totally against the idea of the emotional dialogue system. it kind of works in AP...just be sure to _never_ pick the "Suave'" option....and that is my main gripe with the system. if you associate an emotion with something you would say in this situation, and the writer has a totally different view of things (e.g. suave == sexist) the dialog just feels wrong.

the other way round, however, is like it should be. if i read the line "if you like, we could hide (in TPV of course) behind some cover, and you can handle my mid-body-extremity however you see fit." it will provoke some emotion in me and i would only pick it if i'm in a very strange mood.

so when in doubt, i prefer selecting actual lines of text over selecting an emotion that does not represent my take on things at all.

El_Bel
10th Jun 2010, 15:28
Mixed News:

- The dialogue system now uses emotion selections rather than choosing the actual dialogue.

Details:

"He demonstrates the games dialogue system by showing a confrontation between protagonist Adam Jensen and a gruff bartender. Options for dialogue are presented as emotions or moods rather than a full sentence. For example, Jensen could try to be persuasive or friendly, or he could match the bartender's surly attitude with an agressive response."

My Take: This could be good as I enjoyed in Mass Effect where they gave you a rough idea of what your character would say and it was surprising and fun reading the dialogue. However in Deus Ex you saw the full sentence so there was no confusion and you aren't surprised when they react differently than you would expect.


Thats very bad new :/ Do they even have a reason for doing this?

Daedalus Ciarán
10th Jun 2010, 15:43
but i wonder if this kind of decision is because people interperet sentences in different ways. i can remember playing DX and reading a line and picking it, and then when JC said it... just wasn't exactly how i imagined it would be said. so maybe giving the option of just the intended emotion is... more diplomatic?


But that has as much to do with your interpretation as it does with the actual dialogue. Spector and co. deliberately made JC a blank slate for you to project on to to a certain extent as the world around you changed through your actions. He may sound harsher in part because you project that harshness onto it with your own conscience.

I think they should've taken a colour coded DX1 approach: thus the conversation system becomes more deep, you could even get multiple takes on the same line. Just emotion though is just pretty weak. Why even give us the option for choosing? Just make us click somewhere on the screen and have it be picked at random? We'll never know what we're going to say anyway.

II J0SePh X II
10th Jun 2010, 15:55
I like the new convo system. I've never played AP, but I've heard a lot of good things about the convo system they use there. It's better than reading a line then hearing a guy say that line imo.

You don't actually compose three sentences and then choose one and say it in real life do you? No, you don't, unless you're totally mental that is.

Real life conversations have more flow than that, and you base what you say on emotions you want to express as much as information you want to impart.

Irate_Iguana
10th Jun 2010, 16:15
I like the new convo system. I've never played AP, but I've heard a lot of good things about the convo system they use there. It's better than reading a line then hearing a guy say that line imo.

Why is it better?



You don't actually compose three sentences and then choose one and say it in real life do you? No, you don't, unless you're totally mental that is.

Real life conversations have more flow than that, and you base what you say on emotions you want to express as much as information you want to impart.

In real life I also stammer, repeat myself, mumble, make mistakes, repeat myself, have to ask for clarification, have annoying silences when I try to think of something, repeat myself, go off on a tangent and come up with a real zinger after I'm done with the conversation.

Conversation is unrealistic. Especially because you are bound by whatever the writers want to come up with. I'd rather know in advance how I can choose to respond to a situation than be taken completely by surprise by whatever the writers thought up. I don't like control taken away from me during gameplay, why should I like it during conversation.

TrickyVein
10th Jun 2010, 16:52
^^ I'm sorry, would you say that again, I don't understand you.

Conversation is completely unrealistic, I agree. AJ shouldn't be able to speak or understand any of the foreign languages around him in Shanghai. We should just have to fumble around and point to things we want, use hand gestures and the like.

Edx
10th Jun 2010, 16:54
I agree that emotion choices for conversations over reading what the character will say, is a very poor idea.

As others have said, I want to know what my character is going to say because I want to pretend I AM that character.

What they should do is still allow you to choose what the character says but if they want to make it simpler summarise what your character will say and make some graphical icons next to the description so that you know that this is an angry response, or this is an indifferent response, or something. Anything less than that will ruin that part of the game. You will have no idea what the character will say.

Either way just having options like:

ANGRY, INDIFFERENT, SAD is going to be very, very annoying.

Anasumtj
10th Jun 2010, 16:56
Conversation is completely unrealistic, I agree. AJ shouldn't be able to speak or understand any of the foreign languages around him in Shanghai. We should just have to fumble around and point to things we want, use hand gestures and the like.

What was your point with that, bro.

TrickyVein
10th Jun 2010, 17:34
One of sarcasm, pointing out the greatly over-exaggerated responses of some to the seemingly innocuous choices regarding conversation options which developers have merely hinted to have been implemented in game.

Adam Jensen
10th Jun 2010, 18:10
Op can you post a scan of that screenshot with the bulbs please?

Anasumtj
10th Jun 2010, 18:10
One of sarcasm, pointing out the greatly over-exaggerated responses of some to the seemingly innocuous choices regarding conversation options which developers have merely hinted to have been implemented in game.

He said conversation in all games, regardless of form, is always unrealistic to a degree because you are a slave to the writers.

He did not say he wants it to be more realistic, or whatever. Just that he'd prefer a different method for engaging with NPCs other than a stupid social minigame.

TrickyVein
10th Jun 2010, 18:34
Are you trying to engage me on intelligent, thoughtful terms? Because I really can't meet you half-way.

Irate_Iguana
10th Jun 2010, 18:40
Are you trying to engage me on intelligent, thoughtful terms? Because I really can't meet you half-way.

Nice troll. You'll go far.

Anasumtj
10th Jun 2010, 18:42
I am inviting you over to my house for tea and scones.

TrickyVein
10th Jun 2010, 18:52
I am saddened by your comments, Eerate Lizard. Why isn't there a sad smiley I can choose from?

Pinky_Powers
10th Jun 2010, 18:56
Crap, I can't remember if it was this one or the Eurogamer, but in one of the previews they said there were still first-person conversations. Not all of them were important enough to go into cinematic angles, much as was found in the original game. :)

Shralla
10th Jun 2010, 19:46
Well I don't know about YOU guys, but based on EVERYTHING THEY'VE SAID about the conversation system (not just ZOMG EMOTIONAL RESPONSES IT'S CRAP that you guys are on about), it sounds like it's easily the most solid and well thought-out part of the game.

ZakKa89
10th Jun 2010, 20:32
I agree with Shralla. I don't think it will be anything like the minigame in oblivion (which I really hated) as previously mentioned. Just more like mass effect but way better, it seems. Ofcourse I need to see it in action first. Somebody knock me in a coma and wake me up for e3.

Pinky_Powers
10th Jun 2010, 20:47
The conversation system sounds very similar to one particular side-quest in the first Mass Effect. On Noveria, there was this broad in the nightclub who wanted you to get close enough to a certain man so she could hack his PDA. You had to keep him talking long enough for the device you carried to retrieve the information. The only way to achieve this was to observe visual cues the man gave and press him on matters that concerned him.

It was interesting and fun and gave you a real sense of need to play him just right.

Icarus AI
10th Jun 2010, 21:42
The conversation system sounds very similar to one particular side-quest in the first Mass Effect. On Noveria, there was this broad in the nightclub who wanted you to get close enough to a certain man so she could hack his PDA. You had to keep him talking long enough for the device you carried to retrieve the information. The only way to achieve this was to observe visual cues the man gave and press him on matters that concerned him.

It was interesting and fun and gave you a real sense of need to play him just right.

lol

You need to play the mission again. Your success depended only on whetever the blue and red conversation box are available to you.

mad_red
10th Jun 2010, 22:00
Wow TrickyVeins.

This guy says that he'd rather read convo sentences, and that he doesn't care too much about realism.

Then you say something like: "Since you care so much realism, everything should be realistic exaggerated ad absurdum"

You didn't ever read his post properly and make a sarcastic remark, and then you blame him for exaggerated knee-jerk reactions?


Anyway, how about a Planescape: Torment style dialog options:
[Surprise] You're not responsible?
[Suspicion] You're not responsible?
[Bluff] Tell me who did it, or you're going to get hurt.
[Threat] Tell me who did it, or you're going to get hurt.

Kodaemon
10th Jun 2010, 22:06
Anyway, how about a Planescape: Torment style dialog options:
[Surprise] You're not responsible?
[Suspicion] You're not responsible?
[Bluff] Tell me who did it, or you're going to get hurt.
[Threat] Tell me who did it, or you're going to get hurt.

Best system ever. Both gives emotional context and doesn't surprise you nastily with things you didn't want to say.

Pinky_Powers
10th Jun 2010, 22:10
lol

You need to play the mission again. Your success depended only on whetever the blue and red conversation box are available to you.

Well, I played it the way the game intended, and it was awesome. :o

dropthesky
10th Jun 2010, 23:04
Anyway, how about a Planescape: Torment style dialog options:
[Surprise] You're not responsible?
[Suspicion] You're not responsible?
[Bluff] Tell me who did it, or you're going to get hurt.
[Threat] Tell me who did it, or you're going to get hurt.

This is perfect. I'm trying to think of something else to say, but perfect pretty much sums it up. And you can still call it a verbal fight if you really want to, but that sounds dumb.

EDIT: And the line can be a summarization to cut down the reading that some of the people here are highly against.

Gizmostuff
10th Jun 2010, 23:36
More like:

_________Claymore.

Claymore._____________Claymore?

_________Claymore!

http://www.threepanelsoul.com/view.php?date=2007-12-29

Or perhaps:

_______________:)
:cool: _________________________:eek:
________:hmm:____________:mad2:
_______________ :confused:

Seriously, this is ridiculous. Now we have a game for illiterate retards. Awesome!
I now understand why they didn't release the information sooner. If we had gotten
this info at the beginning there'd be a lot more people pissed off about this. Now
it's at the point where any news that comes out is welcomed with open arms.

Where did EM go from we'll use the original as a basis for our new DX IP to
getting inspiration from IW. There is literally nothing in IW that is inspirational
unless you're talking about the mistakes it made as a game; taking those
and learning from them. But that's not the case here.

hem dazon 90
10th Jun 2010, 23:40
Bawwww.


then leave

Deus_Ex_Machina
10th Jun 2010, 23:48
then leave

I've been in many forums where the game in question was changing to suit a larger audience. And in every single one of those forums there were people that told the naysayers, in not so many words, to GTFO. Regardless of how many times the naysayers were told off, if never fixed the problems with the game and it never convinced the naysayers to leave. In most cases, it simply made matters worse.

You don't have to agree with the naysayers. I do recommend, however, that you at least respect their opinion rather than telling them off because of it.

minus0ne
10th Jun 2010, 23:59
Now it's at the point where any news that comes out is welcomed with open arms.
****

That's not the case, contrary to what the "community management" over here would have you believe (they're the ones that troll under different usernames). If you take a look at this topic you won't have much trouble distinguishing actual people from Eidos community management/troll squad.

It may APPEAR as if people are welcoming the recent news, but that's so far from the truth it's just ridiculous. EM is just trying to drown out the few real responses with their fake troll-hyping.

Has anyone ever seen something like this? I mean, a developer which purposely troll their own forums under false pretences and usernames?

Seriously, I'd guesstimate that over 90% of the "cautiously optimistic" and even more glowing responses are FAKE.

Gizmostuff
11th Jun 2010, 00:12
****

That's not the case, contrary to what the "community management" over here would have you believe (they're the ones that troll under different usernames). If you take a look at this topic you won't have much trouble distinguishing actual people from Eidos community management/troll squad.

It may APPEAR as if people are welcoming the recent news, but that's so far from the truth it's just ridiculous. EM is just trying to drown out the few real responses with their fake troll-hyping.

Has anyone ever seen something like this? I mean, a developer which purposely troll their own forums under false pretences and usernames?

Seriously, I'd guesstimate that over 90% of the "cautiously optimistic" and even more glowing responses are FAKE.

I don't know about that. It seems a little over the top that they'd go that far. If it's true, all I can do is just shake my head.

hem dazon 90
11th Jun 2010, 00:17
****

That's not the case, contrary to what the "community management" over here would have you believe (they're the ones that troll under different usernames). If you take a look at this topic you won't have much trouble distinguishing actual people from Eidos community management/troll squad.

It may APPEAR as if people are welcoming the recent news, but that's so far from the truth it's just ridiculous. EM is just trying to drown out the few real responses with their fake troll-hyping.

Has anyone ever seen something like this? I mean, a developer which purposely troll their own forums under false pretences and usernames?

Seriously, I'd guesstimate that over 90% of the "cautiously optimistic" and even more glowing responses are FAKE.

that tinfoil hat chafe?

Romeo
11th Jun 2010, 00:23
****

That's not the case, contrary to what the "community management" over here would have you believe (they're the ones that troll under different usernames). If you take a look at this topic you won't have much trouble distinguishing actual people from Eidos community management/troll squad.

It may APPEAR as if people are welcoming the recent news, but that's so far from the truth it's just ridiculous. EM is just trying to drown out the few real responses with their fake troll-hyping.

Has anyone ever seen something like this? I mean, a developer which purposely troll their own forums under false pretences and usernames?

Seriously, I'd guesstimate that over 90% of the "cautiously optimistic" and even more glowing responses are FAKE.
LOL!

Yes, we moderators who are paid nothing and have absolutely NO stake in the company, are so devoted we make seperate accounts (The overlap of which would consume 24 hours, every day) and also sign in and out ridiculously so we can respond to ourselves.

Wow, you figured it all out... :lol:

I don't know about that. It seems a little over the top that they'd go that far. If it's true, all I can do is just shake my head.
Oh no, he's spot on. Remember man, there's always a conspiracy. What you have yet to realize is that Immortal and I are cyborg, and Mr. K is actually an AI construct. Also, we all have 44 and 1/2 accounts.

Yeah, shocking, I know... :rolleyes:

Lady_Of_The_Vine
11th Jun 2010, 00:24
****

That's not the case, contrary to what the "community management" over here would have you believe (they're the ones that troll under different usernames). If you take a look at this topic you won't have much trouble distinguishing actual people from Eidos community management/troll squad.

It may APPEAR as if people are welcoming the recent news, but that's so far from the truth it's just ridiculous. EM is just trying to drown out the few real responses with their fake troll-hyping.

Has anyone ever seen something like this? I mean, a developer which purposely troll their own forums under false pretences and usernames?

Seriously, I'd guesstimate that over 90% of the "cautiously optimistic" and even more glowing responses are FAKE.
http://i824.photobucket.com/albums/zz169/Mod-erator/stopposting.jpg







LOL!

Oh no, he's spot on. Remember man, there's always a conspiracy. What you have yet to realize is that Immortal and I are cyborg, and Mr. K is actually an AI construct. Also, we all have 44 and 1/2 accounts.

Yeah, shocking, I know... :rolleyes:

Damn. The secret's out.

Daedalus Ciarán
11th Jun 2010, 00:24
I don't know about that. It seems a little over the top that they'd go that far. If it's true, all I can do is just shake my head.

Haven't you played DX? That should make you suspicious of any faceless organisation.


that tinfoil hat chafe?

Companies lie, cheat and steal to sell their products. Did you hear about the guy who gave 'Kane and Lynch' a bad review on Gamespot? He lost his job over it because Eidos had an advertising deal with Gamespot regarding the game at the time. There's nothing crazy about it really. In fact it would be naive to assume a company, such as EM, wouldn't do whatever it could to sell its product. Even if that meant lying on the forums. They've kept a lot of information away from here: Almost all of the new information has been placed on here by users, never by EM.

I'm not saying he's right. I'm just not saying he's wrong either.

hem dazon 90
11th Jun 2010, 00:25
LOL!

Yes, we moderators who are paid nothing and have absolutely NO stake in the company, are so devoted we make seperate accounts (The overlap of which would consume 24 hours, every day) and also sign in and out ridiculously so we can respond to ourselves.

Wow, you figured it all out... :lol:

Oh no, he's spot on. Remember man, there's always a conspiracy. What you have yet to realize is that Immortal and I are cyborg, and Mr. K is actually an AI construct. Also, we all have 44 and 1/2 accounts.

Yeah, shocking, I know... :rolleyes:

*gasp*

I knew it! The world must know!

TrickyVein
11th Jun 2010, 00:29
Don't believe them so easily. Best way to cover up a real conspiracy is to offer up a fake one to the public so that they can gobble it up and satisfy themselves on being so clever. All further inquiry stops there - don't you see what the mods are doing? :eek:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JDZBgHBHQT8

hem dazon 90
11th Jun 2010, 00:31
Hey I tried to spread the news and a red dot appeared on my head!

Lady_Of_The_Vine
11th Jun 2010, 00:31
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JDZBgHBHQT8


Sinister music. Anyone for a cookie? :cool:

hem dazon 90
11th Jun 2010, 00:34
Don't think you can shrug this off mods!

this murder attempt will not go unpunished

ShadowXOR
11th Jun 2010, 00:44
****

That's not the case, contrary to what the "community management" over here would have you believe (they're the ones that troll under different usernames). If you take a look at this topic you won't have much trouble distinguishing actual people from Eidos community management/troll squad.

It may APPEAR as if people are welcoming the recent news, but that's so far from the truth it's just ridiculous. EM is just trying to drown out the few real responses with their fake troll-hyping.

Has anyone ever seen something like this? I mean, a developer which purposely troll their own forums under false pretences and usernames?

Seriously, I'd guesstimate that over 90% of the "cautiously optimistic" and even more glowing responses are FAKE.

Wow no wonder you're drawn to games with conspiracies. You're a conspiracy-theory nut-bag.

Gizmostuff
11th Jun 2010, 00:44
Haven't you played DX? That should make you suspicious of any faceless organisation.


No, I just go on prequel game forums and talk about the original game I know nothing about just like
the developer and 50% of the community population ;)

Jerion
11th Jun 2010, 00:52
Hey I tried to spread the news and a red dot appeared on my head!

TARGET ACQUIRED :whistle:

hem dazon 90
11th Jun 2010, 00:55
*ducks*

IOOI
11th Jun 2010, 00:59
It deteriorates the RPG aspect. Let's use an example:

You have the "select full sentence" option. One of the options is a joke sentence. If you find the joke funny, you might use it. If you don't you'll probably choose a different option.

Now, the emotion system: you select "JOKE". Adam says something so flat or stupid it makes you cringe. Conversation ruined.

Yeah, that's true. We are *losing control* over certain aspects of the game.

If there is any surprise it should come from the NPC's answer, not from what we choose to ask.
It's like saying we like to lose control over our actions, it should be the other way around, we should strive to gain control over them. Though for those who want Adam to be a dick or talk more losely there should be that option.

TrickyVein
11th Jun 2010, 01:02
It's gonna be mighty tempting to select if there is actually an option to choose from called "Be a dick"

Ulysses
11th Jun 2010, 01:04
Eh, not beyond the realm of possibility to have shills on a game forum pre-release. If it were true, I'd have a good laugh.

Gizmostuff
11th Jun 2010, 01:14
Yeah, that's true. We are *losing control* over certain aspects of the game.

If there is any surprise it should come from the NPC's answer, not from what we choose to ask.
It's like saying we like to lose control over our actions, it should be the other way around, we should strive to gain control over them. Though for those who want Adam to be a dick or talk more losely there should be that option.

:lol:


It's gonna be mighty tempting to select if there is actually an option to choose from called "Be a dick"

Absolutely! It's a classic expression!

Human
11th Jun 2010, 01:24
****

That's not the case, contrary to what the "community management" over here would have you believe (they're the ones that troll under different usernames). If you take a look at this topic you won't have much trouble distinguishing actual people from Eidos community management/troll squad.

It may APPEAR as if people are welcoming the recent news, but that's so far from the truth it's just ridiculous. EM is just trying to drown out the few real responses with their fake troll-hyping.

Has anyone ever seen something like this? I mean, a developer which purposely trolls their own forums under false pretences and usernames?

Seriously, I'd guesstimate that over 90% of the "cautiously optimistic" and even more glowing responses are FAKE.

LOL. Funniest thing I've heard all day.

But the consipiracy gets bigger... Contary to what the "original fanbase" over here would have you believe (they're the ones that troll under different usernames) it's not the case. If you take a look at this topic you won't have much trouble distinguishing actual people from the Bioware, Bethesda, Game Arts, etc community management/troll squad.

It may APPEAR as if people are backlashing against the recent news, but that's so far from the truth it's just ridiculous. They are just trying to drown out the few real responses with their fake troll-hyping.

Has anyone ever seen something like this? I mean, a developer which purposely troll their competitor's forums under false pretences and usernames?

Seriously, I'd guesstimate that over 90% of the "cautiously pessimistic" and even more negative responses are FAKE.[/QUOTE]

Icarus AI
11th Jun 2010, 01:32
The ME system is horrible, but it is still pretty hopefull that they seem to have a branching conversation system. Conversations in Deus Ex were very linear and you very rarely had any choise in dialoque. The difference in conversations in Deus Ex came pretty much solely (few exceptions) based on your actions alone (actions affecting dialoque is great, but it still was pretty straightforward).

Pinky_Powers
11th Jun 2010, 01:34
I'm fake. I've never once said or done anything on this forum. It's all a deception.

hem dazon 90
11th Jun 2010, 01:37
As am I

FrankCSIS
11th Jun 2010, 01:41
I'm fake. I've never once said or done anything on this forum. It's all a deception.

I think, what is most likely the case here, is that you have brought our reality into your reality, merging our previous universe with the one you have created for yourself, with an altogether strange result, to which we are only beginning to acknowledge and understand the outcome. I barely remember what the world was like, before you brought us all in here with you.

Or has it always been like this? Damn it all, I just don't know anymore!

Pinky_Powers
11th Jun 2010, 01:41
We already knew you were fake. I mean, come on.

Pinky_Powers
11th Jun 2010, 01:45
I think, what is most likely the case here, is that you have brought our reality into your reality, merging our previous universe with the one you have created for yourself, with an altogether strange result, to which we are only beginning to acknowledge and understand the outcome. I barely remember what the world was like, before you brought us all in here with you.

Or has it always been like this? Damn it all, I just don't know anymore!

In simple terms, it's best that you just accept what I've done for you and welcome me into your hearts. In a more specific language, I'd like heavy booze and dangerous drugs in a regular flow of offerings.

FrankCSIS
11th Jun 2010, 01:48
I'd like heavy booze and dangerous drugs in a regular flow of offerings.

Is that all you want, though? Will this meager offering compensate for all it is you've done for us? Or is it just the start? Is it recognition, you really crave for? Do you plan on replacing the man in the stars, rotating around the globe and speaking to us about the nature of truth?

Pinky_Powers
11th Jun 2010, 01:54
Is that all you want, though? Will this meager offering compensate for all it is you've done for us? Or is it just the start? Is it recognition, you really crave for? Do you plan on replacing the man in the stars, rotating around the globe and speaking to us about the nature of truth?

I'm going to be completely sideways with bad craziness and strong dementia. I won't be in any state of mind to treat with you on these sober philosophies. Just give me my medicine and gtfo!

minus0ne
11th Jun 2010, 01:56
Damn. The secret's out.
http://imgur.com/FGGok.jpg

Montag
11th Jun 2010, 01:58
Well I don't know about YOU guys, but based on EVERYTHING THEY'VE SAID about the conversation system (not just ZOMG EMOTIONAL RESPONSES IT'S CRAP that you guys are on about), it sounds like it's easily the most solid and well thought-out part of the game.

Agree

I think it is a better RPG convention. I am role playing so what am I feeling at the moment. Am I angry at this character? Trying to deceive them? Surely that is more role playing than just trying to choose the 'winning' line?

It is like a crap magazine personality test, you can often guess the answer that will give the personality trait you want.

DEx was great because it tried new things which nobody had done before and made them work so DEHR is going to be crap because it is trying new things that haven't been done before.

OK then I definitely am not going to buy this game because of a system I have never used before and still haven't seen is in it. Naaaa

FrankCSIS
11th Jun 2010, 02:02
m going to be completely sideways with bad craziness and strong dementia. I won't be in any state of mind to treat with you on these sober philosophies. Just give me my medicine and gtfo!

What worries me here, is these very pills you ask for, they were found to be at the center of what we are experiencing in the first place. They cut out this part of the brain which perceives and focuses on just one of the many alternate universes available to us, and so allows many realities to blend in with one another. What is yet unknown is how you have brought us all from our own alternate realities into yours but I can't risk giving you more of that drug just now.

Now without substential testing, that is. On myself, of course.

ShadowXOR
11th Jun 2010, 02:05
Eh, not beyond the realm of possibility to have shills on a game forum pre-release. If it were true, I'd have a good laugh.

It's beyond the realm of possibility this early before release. I think it happens (VERY rarely) but it's right before the game comes out to build sales hype, not 6+ months off.

Plus I don't know about others but I've been using this user name for over 10 years so a simple google search can determine it's not a BS account.

ShadowXOR
11th Jun 2010, 02:07
The ME system is horrible, but it is still pretty hopefull that they seem to have a branching conversation system. Conversations in Deus Ex were very linear and you very rarely had any choise in dialoque. The difference in conversations in Deus Ex came pretty much solely (few exceptions) based on your actions alone (actions affecting dialoque is great, but it still was pretty straightforward).

The ME system has flaws but it's far from horrible.

Pinky_Powers
11th Jun 2010, 02:09
What worries me here, is these very pills you ask for, they were found to be at the center of what we are experiencing in the first place. They cut out this part of the brain which perceives and focuses on just one of the many alternate universes available to us, and so allows many realities to blend in with one another. What is yet unknown is how you have brought us all from our own alternate realities into yours but I can't risk giving you more of that drug just now.

Now without substential testing, that is. On myself, of course.

Then I'm just going to have to kill you.

Jerion
11th Jun 2010, 02:20
Then I'm just going to have to kill you.

Do it quietly, would you? They scream so loud.

FrankCSIS
11th Jun 2010, 02:22
If I die in your world, do I cease to exist in all the others, now that they're somewhat merged? Do I wake up alive once the drug wears off?

It's still all very new to me.

hem dazon 90
11th Jun 2010, 02:34
^^ if you die the universe ends

dropthesky
11th Jun 2010, 02:43
This sounds like the plot of Marathon: Infinity

are androids still dreaming of electric sheep?

this thread is broken.

FrankCSIS
11th Jun 2010, 02:50
this thread is broken.

Flow, my tears

IOOI
11th Jun 2010, 02:51
It's gonna be mighty tempting to select if there is actually an option to choose from called "Be a dick"

I'm pretty sure EM can come up with something.

minus0ne
11th Jun 2010, 03:13
This sounds like the plot of Marathon: Infinity

are androids still dreaming of electric sheep?

this thread is broken.
To be fair, it was doomed from the moment someone typed "Very good news.." ;)

IH-Denton
11th Jun 2010, 08:42
- The dialogue system now uses emotion selections rather than choosing the actual dialogue.
Fail. That is enough reason to hate you Eidos Montreal... burn in hell
Emotion selections... that is mean Adam Jensen is nervous and pretty sensible freaking gay, whose actions depend mostly on his mood rather his brain. And moreover it means that dialog system goes down to background of gameplay.

Shralla
11th Jun 2010, 08:50
Fail. That is enough reason to hate you Eidos Montreal... burn in hell
Emotion selections... that is mean Adam Jensen is nervous and pretty sensible freaking gay, whose actions depend mostly on his mood rather his brain. And moreover it means that dialog system goes down to background of gameplay.

I forgive your atrocious grammar given that you definitely don't speak English as your first language, but you're making an incredibly broad and sweeping accusation based on an incredibly simple and basic gameplay decision that could literally have absolutely no effect on how the game plays out.

Lady_Of_The_Vine
11th Jun 2010, 08:53
Fail. That is enough reason to hate you Eidos Montreal... burn in hell


Loving the drama. Mr K, please pass the popcorn.

IH-Denton
11th Jun 2010, 09:25
Sorry, I just want to say something negative... once
I'm loving Eidos Montreal actually :D

Sabretooth1
11th Jun 2010, 10:01
**** you all and your horrible game and horrible moderators!!!!!!

Eh sorry, it was my turn.

<3 all

mad_red
11th Jun 2010, 11:45
From: INGrata//LEAR//216216.314618
To: RPatel//MANAINC//110909.616616

Subject: Out of control

RP
There results are ....interesting.

It seems our illuminati mind-slaves are turning against each other, which will keep them under control. But now they're calling out our agents on both sides. It will be total chaos!

Please advise,
INGRATA

Btw. you might want to check the servers. Emails have been getting lost lately.

Cronus:GlobalNode:CR//CULTOFR//RESTRICTED//139.913.8888/Comnet

Nyysjan
11th Jun 2010, 12:49
Thats very bad new :/ Do they even have a reason for doing this?
Game is being developed with the ever increasing numbers of functionally illiterate people in mind, i'd blame the public education system, but i believe that the parents are more likely to blame.



Anyway, how about a Planescape: Torment style dialog options:
[Surprise] You're not responsible?
[Suspicion] You're not responsible?
[Bluff] Tell me who did it, or you're going to get hurt.
[Threat] Tell me who did it, or you're going to get hurt.

This, i hated the ME dialogue system because i had no idea what i would say (and renegade/paragon choices seemed sometimes odd, other times insane, and almost all the time psycho/spineless).
From what i've read, i will hate the emmotion system on dialogue (hopefully i'm wrong), giving us a choice of what we say, and how we say it (lie, truth, sarcastic, amused, deadpan, angry, happy, etc...) would be a lot better option, giving us more control over our characters as making the conversations more immersive.

Yes, it might mean that people need to learn to read, but i think that's a small price to pay for a good dialogue system that gives me the control of how my character behaves instead of having to guess at what the writers were thinking (or, as it sometimes seems after seeing the ME options), drinking.

Lady_Of_The_Vine
11th Jun 2010, 12:50
**** you all and your horrible game and horrible moderators!!!!!!

Hehe, don't you like our cookies? :p

TrickyVein
11th Jun 2010, 12:52
So hateful. Tsk tsk

Edx
11th Jun 2010, 14:39
Agree

I think it is a better RPG convention. I am role playing so what am I feeling at the moment. Am I angry at this character? Trying to deceive them? Surely that is more role playing than just trying to choose the 'winning' line?


Sure, but if you select "angry" how do you know what your character will say?

Once you find out, maybe you realise you would have chosen a different option after all, but its too late then.

El_Bel
11th Jun 2010, 14:55
Yeah maybe the angry line is more aggressive then what you would like to say. That is the kind of problems we will run to, and i predict that we will be forced to reload the conversation just to hear our other options for something that better suits what we would like to say.

Of course the developers couldnt pass the opportunity to copy Mass Effect. Mass effect sold quite well and its conversation system is well known.

Malah
11th Jun 2010, 15:16
You're forgetting that not only do you have to guess what Adam will say, you will also have to predict what the person you're talking to wants to hear. Conversation minigame and all that...

No more idle chat about the world. If you say the wrong thing your partner will lock up or attack you. Nice.
Even if they add optional dialogue, it will be more copypasta from Mass Effect. They sure are making this game stand apart from the rest.

Pinky_Powers
11th Jun 2010, 16:28
Sure, but if you select "angry" how do you know what your character will say?

Once you find out, maybe you realise you would have chosen a different option after all, but its too late then.

When you speak with people in real life you rarely know what you're going to say. You begin by simply choosing the emotional tone of your reply, and then form the words as you go. You might have a general idea of what you're going to say, but it usually comes out very different. The important thing is that it carries the tone of the idea.

When you're in verbal combat in real-life (something most of us aren't very good at), the best arguers know it is the emotional sentiments wielded at the right moments that persuade best.

I might be making all this up, but is sounds very true. :)

Nyysjan
11th Jun 2010, 16:34
Yeah maybe the angry line is more aggressive then what you would like to say. That is the kind of problems we will run to, and i predict that we will be forced to reload the conversation just to hear our other options for something that better suits what we would like to say.
About 90% of the time i talk to other people not part of my family, i tend to be either annoyed, bored, angry or uncaring (yeah, i'm kinda anti social).
But i'm still capable of controlling what i say most of the time because i'm a sentient being capable of reasoning and manners.
With the "choose your emotion" system that flows straight out the window and my character becomes completely controlled by his feelings (and bipolar as well as he will be running from angry to happy it 5 seconds completely controlled by what the other person last said, or what i want him to say).
Not to mention that i will have to keep replaying the conversations until i find conversation options that satisfy me.


Of course the developers couldnt pass the opportunity to copy Mass Effect. Mass effect sold quite well and its conversation system is well known.
It also contained insanely long elevator rides, horrible vehicle sections and mindblowingly boring side missions, should we also copy those?
Oh, and piss easy combat, even on insanity.
ME2 fixed most of these issues (and brought us some new ones to replace em), do we really want to repeat them?

Pinky_Powers
11th Jun 2010, 16:50
About 90% of the time i talk to other people not part of my family, i tend to be either annoyed, bored, angry or uncaring (yeah, i'm kinda anti social).
But i'm still capable of controlling what i say most of the time because i'm a sentient being capable of reasoning and manners.
With the "choose your emotion" system that flows straight out the window and my character becomes completely controlled by his feelings (and bipolar as well as he will be running from angry to happy it 5 seconds completely controlled by what the other person last said, or what i want him to say).
Not to mention that i will have to keep replaying the conversations until i find conversation options that satisfy me.

Being controlled by your emotions and choosing a specific emotional tone for your reply is not the same thing. You probably already knew that, so what gives?

Nyysjan
11th Jun 2010, 17:23
Being controlled by your emotions and choosing a specific emotional tone for your reply is not the same thing. You probably already knew that, so what gives?

From what i've understood, i only get to choose my emotion, wich decides the reply, wich is pretty much the same as being controlled by emotions (unless the answer is same no matter what, but only the tone changes).
Ofcourse we don't have the whole picture yet, so it might not be that bad, but i'm working on what i've read, and that does not give me much hope.

I earlier mentioned being able to choose my full reply, and add a tone/emotion to it (as well as deciding wether i'm honest, lying, sarcastic, etc...), wich would be a good way to add to the dialog system, but from what i've read they're trying to minimize the reading needed wich my idea would just add to.

Pinky_Powers
11th Jun 2010, 17:38
From what i've understood, i only get to choose my emotion, wich decides the reply, wich is pretty much the same as being controlled by emotions (unless the answer is same no matter what, but only the tone changes).
Ofcourse we don't have the whole picture yet, so it might not be that bad, but i'm working on what i've read, and that does not give me much hope.

What you just described is the player controlling his emotion, not the other way around. When you as the player make a sober decision to put a certain emotion forward at a certain time, you are in control. You are manipulating the conversation to get what you want from it. This is good.


I earlier mentioned being able to choose my full reply, and add a tone/emotion to it (as well as deciding wether i'm honest, lying, sarcastic, etc...), wich would be a good way to add to the dialog system, but from what i've read they're trying to minimize the reading needed wich my idea would just add to.

That's a system I would love to see in action. I could have some real fun with it. :cool:

I can't express how greatly I disagree with the notion that the Mass Effect system or now this emotion-based system is an illiterate design, simply to avoid making people read. I get angry every time someone spouts that nonsense. I'm a rabid reader who takes words and grammar very seriously, and even for someone like me, there are strong virtues to these evolving conversation systems.

I can't say whether this one will work in the end, but most of the arguments I've seen against it are fairly weak in my opinion.

Nyysjan
11th Jun 2010, 18:12
What you just described is the player controlling his emotion, not the other way around. When you as the player make a sober decision to put a certain emotion forward at a certain time, you are in control. You are manipulating the conversation to get what you want from it. This is good.
No, i'm in control of what emotion is, but not what the reaction is.
It does not matter how smart some action is, only what emotion i am feeling, if i'm angry, i'll act on it, i can't bottle it up or ignore it and remain detached.
Or more precisely, if i choose angry, Adam Jensen will be angry, and act on it, i can't choose that i´m angry, but ignore the emotion for the sake of manners, or to avoid conflict, or because it's smart thing to do.
Atleast not from what i've read, if the emotion system is only in the convo minigame it might be salvageable, but if all conversation is like this then the situation becomes horrible.


That's a system I would love to see in action. I could have some real fun with it. :cool:
glad you liked it.
I've been wishing for something like that since Baldurs Gate, so many rpg characters seem to be bipolar nutcases who keep running fom one overacted emotion to another, or totally emotionless machines (JC was fun in that even with the monotone voice he had, i could easily picture him as being sarcastic, joking, or making fun of the person he was talking with, except he did it with such a deadpan expression that everyone took him seriously).
Sure it would give the VAs loads more work (everyone line needs to be said several times with different tones of voice), but personally i think that'd be a more legitimate expense than just amping up the graphics to the point whera A nobody can run them, and B, most people won't even notice the difference anymore.



I can't express how greatly I disagree with the notion that the Mass Effect system or now this emotion-based system is an illiterate design, simply to avoid making people read. I get angry every time someone spouts that nonsense. I'm a rabid reader who takes words and grammar very seriously, and even for someone like me, there are strong virtues to these evolving conversation systems.
The problem is not the lack of reading, but lack of information given to me, i need to know what i'm saying, and what tone i will use to say it, as it is i need to go through every conversation several times before i choose the lines i use.
That's not to say that the less info options can't ever be used well, interruptions in ME2 were nice, and if you ever played Bard's Tale the came out few years back (2004? 2005?), it had a nice option of choosing one of rwo masks, sarcastic or diplomatic answer, and you never knew what he'd say (part of the fun was finding out), but the conversations were simple, short and did not have such a huge impact like they should have in DX.



I can't say whether this one will work in the end, but most of the arguments I've seen against it are fairly weak in my opinion.
Really? Almost all the arguments for it that i've read seemed to range fom weak to nonsensical. :p

Pinky_Powers
11th Jun 2010, 18:30
No, i'm in control of what emotion is, but not what the reaction is.
It does not matter how smart some action is, only what emotion i am feeling, if i'm angry, i'll act on it, i can't bottle it up or ignore it and remain detached.
Or more precisely, if i choose angry, Adam Jensen will be angry, and act on it, i can't choose that i´m angry, but ignore the emotion for the sake of manners, or to avoid conflict, or because it's smart thing to do.
Atleast not from what i've read, if the emotion system is only in the convo minigame it might be salvageable, but if all conversation is like this then the situation becomes horrible.

I think you're going to be very surprised how this system works in the end.

Or I am. :confused:

Nyysjan
11th Jun 2010, 18:38
I think you're going to be very surprised how this system works in the end.

Or I am. :confused:

Best part about being pessimistic, either i get to say "i told you so", or i get a happy surprise.;)
Let's hope it's the happy surprise this time.:D

Pinky_Powers
11th Jun 2010, 18:43
The Mass Effect system works so well for me. I was very pleased to see how it played out. I like having a brief "idea" sentence of what I'm about to say, and then hearing the sentiment in full in a fresh way. I prefer it over having four or five complete conversation options, reading them through, over and over and settling on one. Because that's how I am. I'm very anal about that sort of thing. The Mass Effect system sort of saves me from myself, and allows the process to flow so much easier. And I find it keeps me immersed in a close-to-realtime way.

You see, I have no problem getting "the drift" by the short blurb they offer. 90% of the time, the blurb leads to the sentiment I intended from the start. It's a much nicer business than reading through all the options a few times, selecting one, and then hearing my avatar speak it.

Anasumtj
11th Jun 2010, 18:55
Mass Effect's dialogue system is cool, but I think it works mostly because of the kind of experience Bioware was going for. It was supposed to give it a more cinematic flair, so it made sense to keep dialogue somewhat unpredictable. I would not, for instance, enjoy such a system in KOTOR and Dragon Age.

For DX, I'd like my conversations to be a bit more direct. What EM is describing sounds like it could detach me from my avatar. I'm not fond of the idea of having to go through a range of "emotions" (for lack of a better term) to win the dialogue game, rather than just expressing how I feel. Just give me a list of conversation options, some consequences, and be done with it.

Irate_Iguana
11th Jun 2010, 19:10
No, i'm in control of what emotion is, but not what the reaction is.
It does not matter how smart some action is, only what emotion i am feeling, if i'm angry, i'll act on it, i can't bottle it up or ignore it and remain detached.

Just a quick addendum, during the minigame the NPC is in charge of Adam's emotion. The goal is to win the mini-game and you have to match the emotion to the facial cue. That is my biggest complaint about the mini-game (followed closely by not knowing what Adam is going to say). If you are playing the mini0game you are not selecting the tone you think is right. You are selecting the tone the NPC wants to hear.

Pinky_Powers
11th Jun 2010, 20:14
Just a quick addendum, during the minigame the NPC is in charge of Adam's emotion. The goal is to win the mini-game and you have to match the emotion to the facial cue. That is my biggest complaint about the mini-game (followed closely by not knowing what Adam is going to say). If you are playing the mini0game you are not selecting the tone you think is right. You are selecting the tone the NPC wants to hear.

Which is exactly how you manipulate people in real life. You have much to learn about what control really is.

I do still hope for other alternatives like Threaten and Flirt.

Shralla
11th Jun 2010, 20:22
Just a quick addendum, during the minigame the NPC is in charge of Adam's emotion. The goal is to win the mini-game and you have to match the emotion to the facial cue. That is my biggest complaint about the mini-game (followed closely by not knowing what Adam is going to say). If you are playing the mini0game you are not selecting the tone you think is right. You are selecting the tone the NPC wants to hear.

You would be THE WORST at customer service.

7h30n
11th Jun 2010, 20:28
But what if you are talking to a guy that has an idea, vision (or whatever) you disagree with.
To win this minigame you have to accept his idea, and well to put it (not-so) mildly, you have to suck-up his a**
Would you do that to win the minigame and proceed? Or would you disagree with him (because you believe his views are wrong) and fail the minigame (thus that character will ignore you for the rest of the game)?

Fallout 1, 2 and Bloodlines (which I'm currently playing) had some nice dialogues that weren't minigames. You can state whatever is on your mind and live with the consequences (and most of the time talk to a character again unless you really get him mad).

ZakKa89
11th Jun 2010, 20:35
Irate I have know idea where you read that it will be a minigame. There isn't any indication of that.

You can just pick your responses and by the reaction of the npc you can see if you're approach is working or not. If it isn't, you should try another approach. Atleast, that's how I read it. Don't worry it won't be a stupid mini game like in oblivion!

Pinky_Powers
11th Jun 2010, 20:37
But what if you are talking to a guy that has an idea, vision (or whatever) you disagree with.
To win this minigame you have to accept his idea, and well to put it (not-so) mildly, you have to suck-up his a**

I'm really, really hoping there's more to the system than that. I can't imagine that every conversation will be about buddying up to the person. It sickens me to even think that!

Irate_Iguana
11th Jun 2010, 20:38
Irate I have know idea where you read that it will be a minigame. There isn't any indication of that.

One of the interviews said that when you want to convince someone you play this minigame. There are three rounds. you select one emotion and the NPC comes with a counter-attack. Then you select another emotion. If you fail you can approach the NPC and try again. You will get different counter-attacks this time so you can't trial and error your way through a conversation.

Jerion
11th Jun 2010, 20:38
I'm really, really hoping there's more to the system than that. I can't imagine that every conversation will be about buddying up to the person. It sickens me to even think that!

Yeah, I'm having a tough time imagining that every conversation "fight" will be about sucking up to the person you want info from.


You will get different counter-attacks this time so you can't trial and error your way through a conversation.

You have no idea how much I've wanted this in a game.

Nyysjan
11th Jun 2010, 20:39
But what if you are talking to a guy that has an idea, vision (or whatever) you disagree with.
To win this minigame you have to accept his idea, and well to put it (not-so) mildly, you have to suck-up his a**
Would you do that to win the minigame and proceed? Or would you disagree with him (because you believe his views are wrong) and fail the minigame (thus that character will ignore you for the rest of the game)?

What i really keep hoping for (and never get), is an option to take a position, and convince the npc that it is the right one, or failing that, that it's an acceptable compromise.
I always have such (in my opinion) logical and reasonable motives for my actions in games, sometimes they're even moral ones, but nooo, i can never actually state them, i have to spend my time sucking up the the npc's in order to gain some arbitrary gameplay benefit and/or advancement in plot (side or main).

Take Morrigan from Dragon Age for example, i had to either be total psycho or keep her out of the party or i'd loose influence with her, why could i not explain to her that thanks to few empty, somewhat polite words, i now had the future king and one of the most powerfull lords practicly eating out of my hand, not to mention the dwarf king is in my debt, some of the deadliest warriors in the land follow my lead and the leader of the mages circle thinks i'm best thing since the invention of fire.
But noooo, i need to go kick orphans and set puppies on fire (and acquire approval ratings that make Cheney and Bush look like Mother Theresa and Gandhi) or she'll stop talking to me.

Pinky_Powers
11th Jun 2010, 20:40
Irate I have know idea where you read that it will be a minigame. There isn't any indication of that.

You can just pick your responses and by the reaction of the npc you can see if you're approach is working or not. If it isn't, you should try another approach. Atleast, that's how I read it.

What you just described is a mini-game. lol.

It doesn't mean it will be bad. Mini-games can be awesome and add a lot to the experience. The fact is, we know very, very little about this so far.

Romeo
11th Jun 2010, 20:44
http://imgur.com/FGGok.jpg
THERE IS A GOD, AND HE IS A FLYING PEAR. lol!

Do it quietly, would you? They scream so loud.
Wow, totally had a flashback to Paxton Fettel from F.E.A.R.

"They all die so... Loudly." lol

ZakKa89
11th Jun 2010, 20:52
What you just described is a mini-game. lol.

It doesn't mean it will be bad. Mini-games can be awesome and add a lot to the experience. The fact is, we know very, very little about this so far.

Meh I don't really see that as a "mini-game". When I think of minigame in a conversation I immediately think of Oblivion.

It kind of looks like fallout 1/2 with the talking faces. You could really see somebody getting angry if you used a wrong approach.

I also agree that I love the idea you can't trial and error out of a converstation (but I still want quicksave)

7h30n
11th Jun 2010, 20:53
Personally I love minigames, especially if done right.

But, last game I remember that had that was Sid Meier's Pirates (new remake). That game was pretty much all minigames (fencing, dancing...) and it formed an awesome experience.

@Nyysjan
I totally agree with you, some RPGs have allowed that (like F1, and KotOR in some instances) but none in great extent
Oh and I haven't played Dragon Age (nor ME though ME is not RPG, Witcher...) I love RPGs but it seems I've given up on modern ones. Currently am playing VtM:Bloodlines then I'm onto Planescape:Torment (that game is all about dialogue, when I play it I'll check if it is possible to 'reason' with NPCs)

mad_red
11th Jun 2010, 22:18
I'm not fine with Emotion-only responses. I'm fine with short convo options with only a few words.

But sometimes, there should definitely be written out convo options. Even if they're just exceptions.
Eliminating long sentences from ALL conversations is simply overkill.

Written sentences add a whole layer of subtlety.
Me: Crossbow? I'll take it! Nothing like shooting an arrow through someone's head.
JC: "I'll take the mini-crossbow. Sometimes you gotta make a silent take-down."
Me: WHAT?! You baggy fancycoats! You're supposed to be intimidating, not invisible!

Or how about the Tracer Tong ending? A while back some people here said they didn't realize they just threw the world into a Dark Age, because Tong doesn't give you that information beforehand. They got pretty ticked off about being manipulated. The key point is that sometimes expressing a feeling is not enough. Yes feelings are important, but people also have a brain that doesn't talk through emoticons. You need a sentence to explain cause & effect.


EDIT: The kid at the docks in Battery Park? I'm trying hard to picture that convo with emotion-based responses. I'll tell you if I come up with something that works ;)

Edx
11th Jun 2010, 22:21
When you speak with people in real life you rarely know what you're going to say. You begin by simply choosing the emotional tone of your reply, and then form the words as you go. You might have a general idea of what you're going to say, but it usually comes out very different. The important thing is that it carries the tone of the idea.

When you're in verbal combat in real-life (something most of us aren't very good at), the best arguers know it is the emotional sentiments wielded at the right moments that persuade best.

I might be making all this up, but is sounds very true. :)

Whaaa???

That's silly :D

You don't think before you speak?



Anyway the point is I know who I AM and you know who YOU are but we AREN'T the character in the game, and until it gets to the point where we can say anything to them and they will have an answer true immersion won't be possible.

I am given limited options in conversations I choose one that best fits my idea of what i would like to say as my character, sure sometimes the character says things I don't like anyway but that is the nature of games right now as I said. What would make it better is to tell you the emotion AND the words your character will say. That way I can tell what they say AND how they will say it.

I can see a use for these emotions conversations but only in certain circumstances, not in a normal conversation. Its a terrible idea.

Edx
11th Jun 2010, 22:28
No, i'm in control of what emotion is, but not what the reaction is.
It does not matter how smart some action is, only what emotion i am feeling, if i'm angry, i'll act on it, i can't bottle it up or ignore it and remain detached.
Or more precisely, if i choose angry, Adam Jensen will be angry, and act on it, i can't choose that i´m angry, but ignore the emotion for the sake of manners, or to avoid conflict, or because it's smart thing to do.

Also, if you choose angry then how does the game interpret that? I get angry but does that mean I will punch the guy? Well my character might do that if I select angry something I didn't want to happen, because they didn't give me enough information.

Maybe if they really have to have these emotion branching conversations rather than telling us what our character will say they have a system similar to the Wing Commander 3 and 4 series.

For example, in there you could choose from 2 options based on what the main character was THINKING.

So, one option might be "That's a good idea".... and the other might be ... " I don't trust him".

Or... "punch the guy".... or something.

Edx
11th Jun 2010, 23:08
And Mass Effect was a cinematic experience rather than an RPG.

One of the reasons Deus Ex special was that it was a FPS but also an RPG

dropthesky
11th Jun 2010, 23:19
Seriously...the oblivion conversation sucks. The characters faces become so exagerated. I AM ANGRY NOW. NOW YOU SHOULD REASON WITH ME.

In DX you would enter conversation sometimes and it definitely didn't feel like the whole point was to beat them in verbal sparring it was way more natural than that.

One of the best conversations was with the NSF leader on liberty island. Just discussing the differing ideaologies.

Hertzila
12th Jun 2010, 00:07
I really hope the emotions are kept in a convincing minigame and the actual, normal conversations are done the good old-fashioned way. Or how would anyone use an emotion to tell the bartender that you want a beer or a snack?

On the convincing minigame, suppose you need to fish some info from a guy, like from an enemy employee. You pick the "I need some information about *something*" -choice and then the minigame starts up. First, you choose your "route", the way you'll try to convince him. Like whether you will:

try to be friends with him (friendly),
threaten him to talk to you (agressive, angry),
convince him that the thing you need info about deserves to be betrayed (don't know what emotion or way fits here...) or
try to bribe him (again don't know what would fit).

After this he has some reaction and you need to match it (what would matching it mean, I don't know).
Basically at first you decide whether you'll be friends, force him, simply convince him or whatever you might do to get the info and then you get into the manipulation part (match/guess the emotion).

loke13
12th Jun 2010, 18:07
About 90% of the time i talk to other people not part of my family, i tend to be either annoyed, bored, angry or uncaring (yeah, i'm kinda anti social).
But i'm still capable of controlling what i say most of the time because i'm a sentient being capable of reasoning and manners.
With the "choose your emotion" system that flows straight out the window and my character becomes completely controlled by his feelings (and bipolar as well as he will be running from angry to happy it 5 seconds completely controlled by what the other person last said, or what i want him to say).
Not to mention that i will have to keep replaying the conversations until i find conversation options that satisfy me. You do realize your just *****ing over a more updated version of an already outdated conversation system right? The conversation system is much more like AP then it is ME. This way it allows a more human interaction with NPC's.

Hertzila
12th Jun 2010, 19:06
You do realize your just *****ing over a more updated version of an already outdated conversation system right? The conversation system is much more like AP then it is ME. This way it allows a more human interaction with NPC's.

So tell me, what emotion do you use to tell the bartender that you want a beer and not a vodka shot? Or a snack?

Jerion
12th Jun 2010, 19:09
So tell me, what emotion do you use to tell the bartender that you want a beer and not a vodka shot? Or a snack?

Desperation tinged with mild anger, hunger, and sorrow. And thirst.

Hertzila
12th Jun 2010, 19:20
Desperation tinged with mild anger, hunger, and sorrow. And thirst.

I can almost picture the resulting verbal fight:
After that the bartender tells you the cost and displays an overly presented emotion. Then it's your turn again. Succeed and the price will go down; fail and it will stay the same; fail miserably and it will go up.

Pinky_Powers
12th Jun 2010, 19:22
I hate it when that happens. :(

FrankCSIS
12th Jun 2010, 19:25
The first difficulty is to gather the attention of the bartender long enough for him to stop flirting with the girls seated on the stools and get him to take your order.. I think there ought to be a "visual contact fight" before the convo fight actually starts.

loke13
12th Jun 2010, 19:25
So tell me, what emotion do you use to tell the bartender that you want a beer and not a vodka shot? Or a snack? Its called professionalism.:rolleyes:

SquidPirate
12th Jun 2010, 19:39
Not happy about this.

I could care less about contextual third-person, and frankly I wish people would stop beating that dead horse. And overall, I've been happy with nearly everything that has been released about this game...

HOWEVER...

I am not pleased by "emotion-based" dialogue. I suspect it makes it easier for devs to match various strands of recorded conversation, but I'm not a fan.

I can only hope that, since it's clearly not going away, it will be closer to Mass Effect in having actual sentences that roughly match the outcome, as opposed to the Alpha Protocol method.

Deus_Ex_Machina
12th Jun 2010, 23:11
I think DXHR's convo system will be very similar to this (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Oost6o7rd6w), although with slightly more complex controls.

Pay special attention to the text in the video as I believe similar text will be displayed during convos in DXHR.

neilthecellist
14th Jun 2010, 01:15
Love the emotion-based dialogue system idea! It was good in Mass Effect 1 and even better in 2. It's concise and you're always surprised when a simple "Hell, no." choice turns into your character saying, "Go to Hell! I'll send you there myself!"

hem dazon 90
14th Jun 2010, 01:18
I like the conversation system too and don't get why people complain about it.


but hey different strokes and all that jazz

loke13
14th Jun 2010, 02:16
I can only hope that, since it's clearly not going away, it will be closer to Mass Effect in having actual sentences that roughly match the outcome, as opposed to the Alpha Protocol method. And why not? AP's way is actually much better and makes for a more natural feel of the conversations.