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Daedalus Ciarán
7th Jun 2010, 17:21
Will we be able to change our appearance from the sleek sexy augs in the beginning to the original augmentations of DX1?

http://www.thanklessgrind.com/media/pics/news-deus-ex-human-revolution.jpg

http://www.funkylydia.com/deusex/images/de/people/gunther.jpg

I mean, Gunther looks like a monster, a golem to scare little children with, whereas Adam... looks like he's wearing long sleeves and gloves.

So, is there any indication that augmentations will ever look ugly, unseemly, inhuman? Aside from Adam's sunglasses coming out of his head (it seems odd for a security firm to put in cosmetic enhancements during a life saving operation) there's no reason he couldn't pass for unaugmented. Even his eye is perfectly life like until close up. Unlike our poor German.

http://thumbs2.modthesims.info/img/3/1/6/9/9/6/3/MTS2_EsmeraldaF_1012168_Gunther_and_his_rusty_metal_bones.jpg

Tecman
7th Jun 2010, 17:30
Watch the latest trailer, and go through frame-by-frame around 01:43 - the person who is punching Adam has augs that make his arms/hands look like skin-stripped flesh with white veins and a black sphere where the elbow would be. Creepy looking stuff. Then there's Barrett's augs which, while still looking sleek in design, are MASSIVE since he's rather ...large.

I support the idea that the more you would invest in your augs, the more creepy and intrusive they would look. So even if Adam's augs aren't Gunther-looking, expect some nasty looking stuff anyways. :)

Blade_hunter
7th Jun 2010, 17:32
http://img189.imageshack.us/img189/992/borg76.jpg

You can look at this

Adam Jensen
7th Jun 2010, 17:53
Watch the latest trailer, and go through frame-by-frame around 01:43 - the person who is punching Adam has augs that make his arms/hands look like skin-stripped flesh with white veins and a black sphere where the elbow would be. Creepy looking stuff. Then there's Barrett's augs which, while still looking sleek in design, are MASSIVE since he's rather ...large.

I support the idea that the more you would invest in your augs, the more creepy and intrusive they would look. So even if Adam's augs aren't Gunther-looking, expect some nasty looking stuff anyways. :)

Yeah, when I saw that guy at 1.43 for the first time I had to do a double take. I was suprised by how grotesque he looked, and at first I thought it was the colour of his augmentations, then I realised that was his raw flesh. :/

Corpus
7th Jun 2010, 18:07
I think it's something to do with what generation augmentation gunther and anna have. They talk about having to sacrifice their social lives and appearance to get their augmentations. Take into account that Adam's augmentations are pretty high quality and military grade. Most other civilian augmentation (i.e the attacker) looks messy.

Dan0rz
7th Jun 2010, 18:11
when it comes to gunther, don't confuse the limitations of UE1 with artistic intent.

El_Bel
7th Jun 2010, 18:12
Adam is just not so heavily augmented. As simple as that.

Navarre was kinda hot.

http://images4.wikia.nocookie.net/__cb20081018232829/deusex/en/images/9/90/AnnaProfile.jpg

Angel-A
7th Jun 2010, 18:13
I agree, his augs should start out looking well and get grosser and more inhuman as the game progresses.
Another thing to keep in mind... These augs are new and can't be too off-putting to an already disapproving public. In DX, UNATCO is cash-strapped and isn't concerned about asthetics so much as functionality. That, and, engine/design limitations for the time.

Shralla
7th Jun 2010, 18:26
when it comes to gunther, don't confuse the limitations of UE1 with artistic intent.

We aren't. :hmm:

They could have very easily made them look perfectly normal, but they even pointed out IN THE GAME that mechanical augmentations were rather unattractive and unseemly.

Angel-A
7th Jun 2010, 18:27
Plot device to make Gunther resent Paul and J.C.?

Tecman
7th Jun 2010, 18:30
Yeah, when I saw that guy at 1.43 for the first time I had to do a double take. I was suprised by how grotesque he looked, and at first I thought it was the colour of his augmentations, then I realised that was his raw flesh. :/

For me it was actually the other way around: I thought it was his flesh until I watched the footage, frame by frame. You can tell his augs look a lot more brutal and simplistic with the skin-veins aestheric, but if you do the frame by frame viewing, you cannot miss how he has a SPHERE FOR AN ELBOW and a clearly visible upper and lower armpiece, not to mention his augs seem to extend to his neck, it's just that a lot of the footage shows him at an angle where you're not quite sure what the hell is going on. It's nothing like the modern-looking augs like the ones Adam and Barrett seem to have. The closest parallel I can think of is gamepads: think of a black, sleak and well-built model, and then think of a weird-looking oddly-coloured made-in-where-the-christ-ever aesthetic some cheap plastic ones have.

I can take some screenshots if you'd like. :)

edit:
http://www.nanoaugur.net/dx3/dxbioaug1.png
Note that it just looks as if it's exposed tissue. The closest to looking like exposed flesh is his fist, which looks like something out of an anatomy class book. However, notice that the white lines aren't that numerous, and that there's a shape just under his shirt, on top of his muscle.
http://www.nanoaugur.net/dx3/dxbioaug2.png
Notice the black sphere which I've mentioned. It's kind of creepy for someone to actually use augs like this.

Irate_Iguana
7th Jun 2010, 18:36
We aren't. :hmm:

They could have very easily made them look perfectly normal, but they even pointed out IN THE GAME that mechanical augmentations were rather unattractive and unseemly.

They did setup HR as a new renaissance. Everything in high-society is stylish and refined. At least in the concept art. Stands to reason that the top of the line augs are going to be looking very smooth. Not to mention that this science in just making a breakthrough in society. Would be even harder to get accepted if you looked like a metal golem. After the economic collapse people are probably more concerned with functionality than looks. Especially so for the military augs that Gunther and Anna are fitted with.

That being said I do hope that we get to see some less than advanced augs in this game. If only to make clear just how invasive this procedure could look.

Pinky_Powers
7th Jun 2010, 19:56
Eidos did a lot of research on prosthetic and "augmentation" technology too. And the real stuff they're making today does not look like Optimus Prime's mutant wang protruding out of human flesh.

ChrisVCB
7th Jun 2010, 20:09
You also have to remember, in making DX1 it's unlikely they poured too much thought into the mech augs. Alot of thought went into how Nano Augs worked, we saw that, but i'd bet that they never put masses of thought into exactly how mech augs would be implemented, or the sorts of conclusions that would come about once you started weaponising mechanical augmenations.

Blades, spinny stuff, hidden weapons within the arm, etc, are all stuff that has come about because the DX3 team have had to do something the DX1 team never really had to; they had to sit down and go "OK, exactly how do these Mechanical Augmentations work?" and "If Augmentations were made for purpose (combat/stealth/etc), what kind of things would we see?"

Thats why we're seeing Mech Augs in detail that Anna and Gunther would never have had; at least in my opinion, that is. You can't judge the DX3 team harshly for that - if they'd stuck with what they'd been left to work with from DX1 in terms of development of mech augs, we'd not have alot.

Kodaemon
7th Jun 2010, 20:41
Even if you ignore their augs, both Gunther and Anna look like goth leather fetishists. So, maybe they actually chose to look that creepy. I mean, look at the bartender in NY: she has similar style augs, but they don't look half as grotesque on her. The eyes may be a functional thing. Who knows, maybe Gunther and Anna's eyes offer different functionality over Adam's realistic one?

See Ghost in the Shell: some cyborgs look almost completely natural (Motoko), others have some weird features (Bateau's eyes, a possible inspiration for Gunther) others yet don't care about preserving a human look at all.

Blade_hunter
7th Jun 2010, 21:04
The nano augmentations were the main mean to make those augmentations more integrated in the body
And the UE1 is capable if showing functional mechanical augs, but they focused much more about the nanos since that's what we play in the game.
Also their augs were functional, but none of them integrated weapons (gunther vanted a skull gun)

Quake 2 features an enemy that has an integrated arm minigun
http://img641.imageshack.us/img641/4122/gunner2.gif
Just to prove in case that the UE1 could to the same thing if DX devs wanted to

Kodaemon
7th Jun 2010, 21:18
Compare the level of quality of that animation with the animation of DX characters. 'Nuff said.

Dead-Eye
7th Jun 2010, 21:19
Well it could also be taken as a sign of the times in Deus Ex. Maybe Anna and Gunther started out with socially accepted augmentations but as time went on and newer and newer stuff showed up on the field they where forced to upgrade to an extreme degree just to stay alive.

InGroove2
7th Jun 2010, 21:31
The nano augmentations were the main mean to make those augmentations more integrated in the body
And the UE1 is capable if showing functional mechanical augs, but they focused much more about the nanos since that's what we play in the game.
Also their augs were functional, but none of them integrated weapons (gunther vanted a skull gun)

Quake 2 features an enemy that has an integrated arm minigun
http://img641.imageshack.us/img641/4122/gunner2.gif
Just to prove in case that the UE1 could to the same thing if DX devs wanted to

how exactly do you consider Gunther and Anna's augs to be "functional"? The characters never displayed their augs at all, they just used regular guns and were harder to kill. there isn't one spoeck of evidence as to how their augmentations worked... i'm not even positive that their are modestly detailed descriptions of what their augs even consisted of.

it stands to reason that if it is a time of vanity and a time where augs are on the market... seems like you could get a whole slew of augs in different colors and sizes shapes... i think this is a pretty lame gripe.

Blade_hunter
7th Jun 2010, 21:31
I know they were too "rigid", but it was possible and in fact I don't complain about animated augs in this, but they doesn't follow the style of DX, it's incoherent.
And even the augs of Ghermann are somewhat integrated, but that's too different than the ones of Adam

Blade_hunter
7th Jun 2010, 21:34
Anna had invisibility for example, now they haven't any animated aug.
But as I said they focused on the nanos, even Paul never shown his augs at work
A always found that weird and not very logical since all of those people were augmented, hopefully DX mods shown bosses with augs and other than invisibility or some resistance against poison ...

InGroove2
7th Jun 2010, 21:43
Anna had invisibility for example, now they haven't any animated aug.
But as I said they focused on the nanos, even Paul never shown his augs at work
A always found that weird and not very logical since all of those people were augmented, hopefully TNM showed bosses with augmentations

invisibility is the only one and it stll doesn't refelct anything relevant to how the more physical/limb augs worked. there's no real way to decipher the look because of the lack of detial in the texture on anna and gunther compared to what there is in DXHR. it's an irrelevant comparison because a valid case can be made on both sides of the argument, therefore, it's inconclusive and erroneous.

i'm actually fairly satisfied with the aug aspect of it...

i mean, i think most can agree that part of the fantas of DX is what you have in your head. it's a mixture of on screen graphics and what the player makes of it... keeping with that... if you were to ask me how i would describe mechanical augmentations in the world of DX... it's would be fairly close to DXHR has going, as far as we i can tell... especially with almost NO information on mech augs in the original.

i think it's easy to see the appeal of EM doing a prequel... because this part of the DX mythology has a definitive place in the story of our favorite dude JC DENTON, yet has little to no information regarding it... it's fairly ripe for the picking, story/look wise.

ChrisVCB
7th Jun 2010, 21:44
The only Aug I think I ever saw either of them use was Navarre and her cloak. I think she does that on the 747, shortly before you give her a good burst of flamethrower and she runs around screaming till she dies. Fact of the matter is, it doesn't look like the DX1 devs ever really thought mechanical augs through to thier logical conclusion; Most probably because the focus of the game was on nano augs, which had tons of detail poured in, instead. If they had more focus on the mechs, and more time to spend, i'm sure they'd have come up with similar conclusions to the DX3 team as to what you could possibly achieve with mechanical augmentation.

Thus, for the Dx3 team to have to limit themselves to stay inline with what Navarre and Gunther had in DX1 would be ridiculous. I mean, the only thing I know about Navarres augs is she appears to have a metal bar for a bicep....As far as i'm concerned, a fair ammount of thought and effort was put into psuedoscientifically explaining how every nano aug worked, and so long as equal thought and effort is put into explaining how each mech aug works, i'm down with it.

Dead-Eye
7th Jun 2010, 21:46
Anna had invisibility for example, now they haven't any animated aug.
But as I said they focused on the nanos, even Paul never shown his augs at work
A always found that weird and not very logical since all of those people were augmented, hopefully DX mods shown bosses with augs and other than invisibility or some resistance against poison ...

I made a room in the SDK once to kill Paul. He has invisibility and whatever that thing is that makes you immune to electrical/EMP stuff. Not to mention he has a plasma rifle.

Blade_hunter
7th Jun 2010, 21:49
Hey, I said I don't complain about animated augs guys, but in fact they could make something that look like what we see in DX 1 even if there arm machine guns, wrist blades and such things.
I never said to just allow the single aug we see active in DX.
I even said that wasn't normal that our bosses never shown their augs other than that, that's my point here.

[EDIT]Yay he have those, but unfortunately DX didn't show them enough. but I don't know if people understand the point I've been making here

InGroove2
7th Jun 2010, 22:05
Hey, I said I don't complain about animated augs guys, but in fact they could make something that look like what we see in DX 1 even if there arm machine guns, wrist blades and such things.
I never said to just allow the single aug we see active in DX.
I even said that wasn't normal that our bosses never shown their augs other than that, that's my point here.

[EDIT]Yay he have those, but unfortunately DX didn't show them enough. but I don't know if people understand the point I've been making here

right right. i hear ya. i was just making my point about this thread in general, not necessarily about you specifically. peace.

Daedalus Ciarán
7th Jun 2010, 23:50
Even if you ignore their augs, both Gunther and Anna look like goth leather fetishists. So, maybe they actually chose to look that creepy. I mean, look at the bartender in NY: she has similar style augs, but they don't look half as grotesque on her. The eyes may be a functional thing. Who knows, maybe Gunther and Anna's eyes offer different functionality over Adam's realistic one?


What's that rule that says that every 6 months technology/computers get twice as fast or half the size? How do we get from Adam's form fitting eye augmentation which provides targeting info, health info, weapon info on individuals, to Gunther and Anna's protruding eye augmentations? What do they get from having such huge augmentations that they couldn't get from the prototype (read basic and new) military augmentations available twenty-something years earlier? It would be like you using Windows 95, but 95 had all the features, and possibly more, of Windows 7. Why would you get Windows 7 under those circumstances?



The only Aug I think I ever saw either of them use was Navarre and her cloak. I think she does that on the 747, shortly before you give her a good burst of flamethrower and she runs around screaming till she dies. Fact of the matter is, it doesn't look like the DX1 devs ever really thought mechanical augs through to thier logical conclusion; Most probably because the focus of the game was on nano augs, which had tons of detail poured in, instead. If they had more focus on the mechs, and more time to spend, i'm sure they'd have come up with similar conclusions to the DX3 team as to what you could possibly achieve with mechanical augmentation.


I don't think so. I mean, if you look at Barret or Adam in the trailer, and look at JC it seems pretty clear who would have the advantage in a combat situation. JC, when fully augmented, was powerful, with regenerating health, reinforced skin, targeting augmentations, EMP attacks etc, but it seems to me, that he was limited as well: RH was not complete or quick, augmentations did not impart skills such as martial arts, and his weapons were all external meaning he would have to carry equipment. Even with his melee strength JC could not break through walls or throw individuals across rooms.

Some of that may have to do with the ingame engine, sure, but if they did implement all of that into the mechanical augmentations of Gunther and Anna, it seems to me they would me the more impressive augmented agents and Gunther would never have to worry about sweeping his rusty metal bones into the corner. JC's augmentations, while more subtle socially and cosmetically, would never the less appear less impressive and weaker despite the supposed advanced nature of the nano technology.

El_Bel
7th Jun 2010, 23:56
Wait. He could pick up and throw a 2,5m(8 feet) long cube made of solid steel, but you think he could not throw a person across the room? He had so much strength and his skin and bones were so tough that could stop bullets, but he could not punch a wall and brake it?

Daedalus Ciarán
8th Jun 2010, 00:06
Wait. He could pick up and throw a 2,5m(8 feet) long cube made of solid steel, but you think he could not throw a person across the room? He had so much strength and his skin and bones were so tough that could stop bullets, but he could not punch a wall and brake it?

Hmm, fair point.

Flabdomen
8th Jun 2010, 00:27
Remember this game takes place in the golden years before the fall.

Augmentations these days are not the nano augmentations of the original Deus Ex, but their production is still funded by a global economy that encourages the optimal operation of these DX:HR augmentations. Thus, they have great mechanical augs.

When nanotechnology begins to become popular in the years of Deus Ex, then you get the ugly combinations of nanotechnology and mechanical augmentations as in Gunther and Anna. They were heavily mechanically augmented, and the government inflicts nanotechnology onto them.

demon boy
8th Jun 2010, 03:28
I think the devs have taken artistic liberty with the design of the mechanical augs and I think they were right to do so. It adds to the level of realism. In order for mechanical augmentations to become desirable to people, they would probably have to look somewhat presentable. Consider it a mild form of retcon.

minus0ne
8th Jun 2010, 05:03
Aesthetics aside, I'm more bothered by augs like Claymore Multi-Kill, Assasin's Creed wrist-blades and whatever other stupid augs they've come up with, doubly so if they switch to 3rd person view upon use. :rolleyes:

Kohtalo
8th Jun 2010, 07:39
I must say that I'm not too impressed by the way they've chosen to make these mech-augs look and function.

Some say DX had inferior mech-augs due to engine limitations, but I think the mech-augs were just like the developers wanted them to be.
I mean, these DX:HR mech-augs are way too techy to ever be a reality in twenty years (and so is the extra floor on top of Shanghai).

If you look at the original DX augmentations, you can easily see that they are much more plausible and cyberpunkish. They fit the theme and plot perfectly.

Gunther and Anna were probably badly injured in combat, and soon after took the offer to get augmented - this process reinforced their bodies and bones and even replaced damaged tissue and whole limbs! But these augmentations are mainly there to make them tougher, stronger and faster - not turn their bodies into weapons or Transformer-like animating structures. I mean Gunther was a force to be reckoned with, even without his arms having the functionality of turning into swiss-tool. If JC were ever to engage in hand-to-hand combat with Gunther, it's very probable that JC would literally rest in pieces.

Gunther has atleast his skull, eyes, arms and maybe even legs pretty heavily augmented - organic tissue and robotics co-existing in his body. Of course he might have his whole upper body reinforced to a degree (we don't get to see that under his heavy body armor). I'm sure those metallic robotic actuators in his arms gave Gunther superhuman strenght and durability, but the arms still had the same basic purpose that arms usually have :P

Beside thos replaced limbs and other fortifications, I'm sure Gunther had a lot of under the skin functionality, for example invisibility, targeting systems, forcefields, satellite linkup and probably a highly advanced form of his brain working linked to a computer prosessor. I'm just saying that these technologies can still be pretty far in the future, and are more likely to be available by the time DX took place rather than at the time of HR.

It's sad that the developers got too much into this technology stuff instead of making a true cyberpunkish world, with a world resembling the one we live in and in respect of the future technological advancements. The mechanical augmentations that Gunther and Anna had could have easily provided enough base to build a story on. For example, different varieties of prostethics: say metal, plastic, carbon-based -formulations with different functionalities depending on the person (military-civilian, poor-rich, basic-advanced, cheap-expensive and so on.) If most of the augs in HR are something close to what we see in the trailers, then we might miss some of the true story potential that even the original DX had.

Badmaker
8th Jun 2010, 08:38
what i want to see, is making Adam look almost like a cyborg, ljust like Hermann in DX1.
Maybe, if the augs are upgraded to the last level, they should look scary.
For example: the augmented eyes. If the player choose to upgrade them to last level, the eyes should look like Hermann or Anna's eyes. This idea will make DXHR a deep RPG. Some players may choose to augment their character very moderate, other may choose to get those scary augs.

JackShandy
8th Jun 2010, 08:53
I have to say, I think Adams augs look almost identical to a more-updated version of Anna Navarra's - Minus the impression that someone's surgically grafted a red headlight onto her left eye.

Laokin
8th Jun 2010, 09:22
I think it's clear that they look very sleek in the original DX. Anna looks like 7 of 9 from Star Trek with a full eye, and her arms are just as sleek as Adams, they are just like a blue metal instead of gloss black.

Gunther is the same too, except he has two eyes and a metal skull. What is big and bulky about his augs? I see him just being a big hulk of muscle, like a tall Vin Diesal, with two Anna Eyes a skull plate, only half metal arms.

As for the eyes, less borg more terminator IMO.
http://img19.imageshack.us/img19/7990/terminatoru.png (http://img19.imageshack.us/i/terminatoru.png/)

Definitely had no exposed wires or anything. His metal head isn't bulky either, it's rather exactly the same as his normal head, just SMOOTH metal in texture. Smooth is the key word here.

Where is this elusive bulk you speak of? His Chest? Probably isn't even augmented, he looks like a body builder with a future armor vest on. His legs again may just be like thigh armor pads, the metal is on the outside of his pants guys.

Also, they do not have weaponized augmentations, so therefore when it comes to weaponized augs, you have no base reference to compare them to.

I don't see it. I never saw it. DX:HR is right. I owned DX1 from launch day.

Furthermore, it's the notion that it's noticeable that causes the social rift. You see a guy with a glowing red machine eye, are you going to trust him? Better yet, a guy with a noticeable metal head and arms, would you **** with him?

No, because I would lose.... which makes this guy scary by default. Children are scared of normal humans too... lets not exaggerate here.

HR is being very true to the augmentations here, IMO. Not sure how I feel about the Icarus Gliding System's static electricity anti gravity though, that's the only one so far that has me like wtf.

And for the record, I'd gladly take a wtf looking aug over another wtf useless Aqualung any day. We know 10 of the 19 augs, there are still 9 left to cyborg him up anyway, chillout.

Also +10 for wallpunch being consolidated into the strength aug. It was originally listed as an aug it self, I think this is why people had beef with it to begin with, because if you can't use it all the time, it becomes a waste of a slot.

MaxxQ1
8th Jun 2010, 09:28
Anna looks like 40 of D from Star Trek with a full eye,

Fixed :D

mr_cyberpunk
8th Jun 2010, 09:44
Aesthetics aside, I'm more bothered by augs like Claymore Multi-Kill, Assasin's Creed wrist-blades and whatever other stupid augs they've come up with, doubly so if they switch to 3rd person view upon use. :rolleyes:

mm yeah I immediately sused on to that when we first saw the blade. I was like "I sure hope they're not doing what I think they're doing".. turns out they are.. sigh.

They should call it Deus Ex:Every game that isn't Deus Ex- and especially not IWar because that sucked TM.

In the end though I hope I'm wrong and that the first person elements really take us back to what we loved about Deus Ex 1. Else EM have totally missed the point.

Laokin
8th Jun 2010, 10:31
Fixed :D

I stared at that comment for like 8 minutes before it finally made sense, what a bust!

Daedalus Ciarán
8th Jun 2010, 11:29
Some say DX had inferior mech-augs due to engine limitations, but I think the mech-augs were just like the developers wanted them to be.
I mean, these DX:HR mech-augs are way too techy to ever be a reality in twenty years (and so is the extra floor on top of Shanghai)...

Gunther and Anna were probably badly injured in combat, and soon after took the offer to get augmented - this process reinforced their bodies and bones and even replaced damaged tissue and whole limbs! But these augmentations are mainly there to make them tougher, stronger and faster - not turn their bodies into weapons or Transformer-like animating structures. I mean Gunther was a force to be reckoned with, even without his arms having the functionality of turning into swiss-tool. If JC were ever to engage in hand-to-hand combat with Gunther, it's very probable that JC would literally rest in pieces.

Gunther has atleast his skull, eyes, arms and maybe even legs pretty heavily augmented - organic tissue and robotics co-existing in his body. Of course he might have his whole upper body reinforced to a degree (we don't get to see that under his heavy body armor). I'm sure those metallic robotic actuators in his arms gave Gunther superhuman strenght and durability, but the arms still had the same basic purpose that arms usually have :P

Beside thos replaced limbs and other fortifications, I'm sure Gunther had a lot of under the skin functionality, for example invisibility, targeting systems, forcefields, satellite linkup and probably a highly advanced form of his brain working linked to a computer prosessor. I'm just saying that these technologies can still be pretty far in the future, and are more likely to be available by the time DX took place rather than at the time of HR.


Exactly, Gunther and Anna looked physically more powerful, and presumably were, and were lacking in the more advanced areas such as regenerating health. I mean, he was like the original Terminator: extremely durable and with some advanced systems, but the next advancement in technology was not the Terminator which could turn it's body into weapons, it was into more subtle, durable and effective augmentation. But the idea that they made more advanced augmentations first? Seems a bit much to me.


what i want to see, is making Adam look almost like a cyborg, ljust like Hermann in DX1.
Maybe, if the augs are upgraded to the last level, they should look scary.
For example: the augmented eyes. If the player choose to upgrade them to last level, the eyes should look like Hermann or Anna's eyes. This idea will make DXHR a deep RPG. Some players may choose to augment their character very moderate, other may choose to get those scary augs.

But what more could Adam or Gunther get from an eye augmentation? In the trailer, the first one, we see throw Adam's eye: he's capable of looking through walls, getting a read out on the medical status of any assailants, the type and make of any weapons they're carring, and the augmentation is a perfect fit for his eye. His augmented eye, until close inspection, looks exactly like a normal eye should. At no point does it even come close to the bulky augmented eye of Gunther, and yet there is no more information which an augmented eye could provide is there? At least, none which could jusitfy making it twice the size it already is.


I think it's clear that they look very sleek in the original DX. Anna looks like 7 of 9 from Star Trek with a full eye, and her arms are just as sleek as Adams, they are just like a blue metal instead of gloss black.

Gunther is the same too, except he has two eyes and a metal skull. What is big and bulky about his augs? I see him just being a big hulk of muscle, like a tall Vin Diesal, with two Anna Eyes a skull plate, only half metal arms.

As for the eyes, less borg more terminator IMO.

Definitely had no exposed wires or anything. His metal head isn't bulky either, it's rather exactly the same as his normal head, just SMOOTH metal in texture. Smooth is the key word here.

Where is this elusive bulk you speak of? His Chest? Probably isn't even augmented, he looks like a body builder with a future armor vest on. His legs again may just be like thigh armor pads, the metal is on the outside of his pants guys.

Also, they do not have weaponized augmentations, so therefore when it comes to weaponized augs, you have no base reference to compare them to.

I don't see it. I never saw it. DX:HR is right. I owned DX1 from launch day.

Furthermore, it's the notion that it's noticeable that causes the social rift. You see a guy with a glowing red machine eye, are you going to trust him? Better yet, a guy with a noticeable metal head and arms, would you **** with him?

No, because I would lose.... which makes this guy scary by default. Children are scared of normal humans too... lets not exaggerate here.

And the fact that Gunther and Anna don't have weaponised augmentations should provide a decent hint that the augmentations of DX:HR are off. How could the too most advanced mechanically augmented international agents not have these basic, twenty year old augmentations?

And Gunther makes mention numerous times that he is fully augmented, that he's awaiting updates and even then those updates don't come close to what the augmentations in DX:HR are like. They're tactical updates like satellite uplinks. Take a look at this picture and look at the base of his neck, there's wiring and metal coming up and gong underneath the flesh. His chest is augmented. And if it wasn't why would his wiring between his brain and his limbs go through the front of his body and not simply connect to the nervous system in his spine and up to his brain?

http://thumbs2.modthesims.info/img/3/1/6/9/9/6/3/MTS2_EsmeraldaF_1012169_Gunther_full_length_in_DX.jpg

And the Golem that scares children is how Gunther describes himself. The augmentations are supposed to be off putting, they're supposed to be socially damaging, they're supposed to alienate. That's why he's so jealous of JC and Paul, not just because they threaten to take his position as a field agent but also because they're still human. Look at the MIB mechs, they talk about being cold and dead inside. The continuity states that the augmentations should be socially castrating and dehumanising. Adam's eye, just as an example, is none of those things because it is so subtle and integrated. You can't even tell his eye's augmented until the close up in the trailer.

Kodaemon
8th Jun 2010, 11:33
MIB mechs

Whoa, dude, I've never seen those, where are they in the game?

Kohtalo
8th Jun 2010, 11:54
They're all around, the men in black. They're some form of cyborgs I guess.

Badmaker
8th Jun 2010, 12:00
Whoa, dude, I've never seen those, where are they ?

Behind u :rasp:

Kodaemon
8th Jun 2010, 12:27
Seeing how no one seems to get it: MIBs are not mechs. They're physiopharmaceutically augmented and conditioned. Simply put: on hardcore meds & drugs and brainwashed.

Badmaker
8th Jun 2010, 13:15
@Kodaemon, the robot voice and red dotted eyes, pale white skin, regeneration, are all caused by hardcore meds ?
When i played DX1, i got the impressionthat MIB are mechs.

Kodaemon
8th Jun 2010, 13:21
http://theosek.sitesled.com/seriesp.html

Daedalus Ciarán
8th Jun 2010, 13:41
Seeing how no one seems to get it: MIBs are not mechs. They're physiopharmaceutically augmented and conditioned. Simply put: on hardcore meds & drugs and brainwashed.

Fair enough. Except that they were augmented. They had a blow-up-when-you-die augmentation. Their 'natural' augmentations though I'd clearly forgotten about.

Also, the voice.

So describing them as mechs is off, but they are mechanically augmented.

mad_red
8th Jun 2010, 15:13
Just letting my imagination run here:

UNATCO may not have access to the same funds as Seraf or other big corporations. Also, the mech-market may have taken a dive since the advent of nano-aug, resulting in more bare-bone products, rather than the flashy renaissance stuff. Finally, Manderley might not want his agents to have in-built weaponry, same reason he doesn't want Gunther to have a skull-gun and be able to kill with a thought.

There's always a way to make it seem more realistic :)

Daedalus Ciarán
9th Jun 2010, 01:19
Just letting my imagination run here:

UNATCO may not have access to the same funds as Seraf or other big corporations. Also, the mech-market may have taken a dive since the advent of nano-aug, resulting in more bare-bone products, rather than the flashy renaissance stuff. Finally, Manderley might not want his agents to have in-built weaponry, same reason he doesn't want Gunther to have a skull-gun and be able to kill with a thought.

There's always a way to make it seem more realistic :)

You mean to say that the multi national anti terrorist task force, set up to safe guard the political and social structure of the Western world and to guard and deliver the limited amounts of the only known vaccine to a contagious plague which has killed millions is under funded and unable to afford twenty year old mechanical augmentation? I don't think that makes things more realistic to be honest.

And if the mech market collapsed during/after the depression then I have to ask how Gunther and Anna were able to get these new, augmentations which don't have weapons? If the market crashed and they were forced to use what little could be salvaged surely they'd be using the old augmentations? The first generation ones? The ones which turn into machine guns? These are the original, basic models.

Angel-A
9th Jun 2010, 01:50
HR is being very true to the augmentations here, IMO. Not sure how I feel about the Icarus Gliding System's static electricity anti gravity though, that's the only one so far that has me like wtf.


To defend the electric energy ball thing, in DX1, Gunther had some kind of energy shield that came up if you attacked him.

LyreOfNero
9th Jun 2010, 01:53
You mean to say that the multi national anti terrorist task force, set up to safe guard the political and social structure of the Western world and to guard and deliver the limited amounts of the only known vaccine to a contagious plague which has killed millions is under funded and unable to afford twenty year old mechanical augmentation? I don't think that makes things more realistic to be honest.

Actually that makes perfect sense. Governments want to cut down their budget and one of the places they do that is with all the "Oooo shiney" toys that tend to make a soldier's life easier. For a long time during "Iraq War: The Sequel" a lot of soldiers were buying their own armor and the humvees had canvass doors.

AaronJ
9th Jun 2010, 02:14
one of my favorite things about the new trailer is beats-adam-up guy. he looks so...disgusting...and so wonderfully pre-Jordan Shea

Angel/0A
9th Jun 2010, 02:40
UNATCO may not have access to the same funds as Seraf or other big corporations.


You mean to say that the multi national anti terrorist task force, set up to safe guard the political and social structure of the Western world and to guard and deliver the limited amounts of the only known vaccine to a contagious plague which has killed millions is under funded and unable to afford twenty year old mechanical augmentation? I don't think that makes things more realistic to be honest.


Actually that makes perfect sense. Governments want to cut down their budget and one of the places they do that is with all the "Oooo shiney" toys that tend to make a soldier's life easier. For a long time during "Iraq War: The Sequel" a lot of soldiers were buying their own armor and the humvees had canvass doors.

There's the two UNATCO troopers inside the NSF base (where you recover proof and send the warning message) discussing how before Simons (I think) came along, they were wearing little white helmets as opposed to the equipment they had presently (re: philosopher/philanthropist, "Philanthropist? You mean like Nietzsche?"). So yea, it is definitely plausible that there was a lack of funding.

xcrcmiced
9th Jun 2010, 04:19
FACT: FINAL GHOST IN THE FANTASY is RITUAL REENACTMENT of Final Fantasy Strain j'RPG' by nipponese shinto-nihilists

FACT: Final Fantasy Strain j'RPG' characterized by pop star 'GACKT' (a.k.a. Shinto-Nihilist Queen Bee) as main character (IE Squall IE Tidus)

FACT: Final Ghost in the Fantasy features ritual reenactment via so-called 'WESTERN' (IE false flag deep cover shinto-nihilist) gackt analogue ''Voltaire''

PROOF:
http://img683.imageshack.us/img683/4127/adamm.jpg
http://img257.imageshack.us/img257/5198/1276056117988.jpg

Kruxs
9th Jun 2010, 04:32
My God! :eek:

mr_cyberpunk
9th Jun 2010, 04:33
To defend the electric energy ball thing, in DX1, Gunther had some kind of energy shield that came up if you attacked him.

JC actually had the ability too, as did Paul, I think its either the environmental aug or the balistics aug.

Gunther had this ability so I guess it makes sense for mechs to have it.. although I have no idea why when you consider Mechs would have some kind of internal mechanism for dealing with these kinds of weapons (ie. Terminator style where they just pull the bullets out of their backs if its that troubling.).

LyreOfNero
9th Jun 2010, 04:34
Hey I recognize you
http://brians-mnm-wiki.wikispaces.com/file/view/Cave_troll.jpg

QiX
9th Jun 2010, 04:38
Dude, watch "The Big Lebowski", all the answers are there. Now just relax, and breathe... ;)

Donny: Are these the Nazis, Walter?
Walter Sobchak: No, Donny, these men are nihilists, there's nothing to be afraid of.

Sabretooth1
9th Jun 2010, 04:52
By the way, Square Enix is going to publish Dungeon Siege III (another WRPG, albeit a thorough dungeon crawler). When I heard of that, I immediately thought of you. <3

Senka
9th Jun 2010, 05:49
Just to prove in case that the UE1 could to the same thing if DX devs wanted to


..Quake 2 doesn't run on UE1 though, it uses iD Tech 2.

Daedalus Ciarán
9th Jun 2010, 11:35
Actually that makes perfect sense. Governments want to cut down their budget and one of the places they do that is with all the "Oooo shiney" toys that tend to make a soldier's life easier. For a long time during "Iraq War: The Sequel" a lot of soldiers were buying their own armor and the humvees had canvass doors.

But once again I have to point out that these weaponised augmentations are the most basic models. DX:HR takes place roughly twenty years before DX1, the cheapest, most widely available military augmentations would be the first generation: the ones present in DX:HR. Gunther would have to be upgraded to the non-weaponised ones in DX1. And this isn't just America which funds UNATCO. It's an international organisation which defends the most important vaccine in the world. They aren't cheap infantry fighting over capital, they're as or more important than the secret service who protect the world leaders personally.

Why would the government (I presume we're talking about the American one here) cut money from the unit which insures their continued existence? The game even makes mention that if they fail the Mayor of New York and his family go without Ambrosia. It's not in their best interest to cut funding.

El_Bel
9th Jun 2010, 13:00
Another 50 billion dollars down the drain...

Simons didnt seem to worry about money, when it came to power.

I think its just that Ion Storm didnt have to think about mechs so much because they werent the focus of the game. I am happy about EM fixing that.

mad_red
9th Jun 2010, 13:41
But once again I have to point out that these weaponised augmentations are the most basic models. DX:HR takes place roughly twenty years before DX1, the cheapest, most widely available military augmentations would be the first generation: the ones present in DX:HR. Gunther would have to be upgraded to the non-weaponised ones in DX1. And this isn't just America which funds UNATCO. It's an international organisation which defends the most important vaccine in the world. They aren't cheap infantry fighting over capital, they're as or more important than the secret service who protect the world leaders personally.

Why would the government (I presume we're talking about the American one here) cut money from the unit which insures their continued existence? The game even makes mention that if they fail the Mayor of New York and his family go without Ambrosia. It's not in their best interest to cut funding.

According to this timeline,
http://garbledzombie.wordpress.com/2009/01/11/deus-ex-universe-timeline/

The grey death surfaces in 2051, that's one year before the game begins. I presume that Gunther and Anna were already augmented by then.

As for salvaging old generation weapon-augs, I don't think so. I imagine UNATCO will not stoop to old-generation weapon augs when governments are willing subsidze the bid for the contract to produce new ones and attract investment to their nation. However, weapon augs might have become restricted in their use between DX:HR and DX due to concerns, and moreover I think Manderley realizes perfectly well that weaponizing Gunther or Anna can create a backlash for UNATCO. What I was saying about the market crash is that augmentations are probably will continue to be improved after the crash, but they will lack the polish and embellishments of Adam's augs, becoming strictly utilitarian in form and function. Ironically, that could lead to further antisentiment and discrimination, but such is politics and economics.

If you want, I can even come up with excuses as to why some augs in DX:HR will be more effective than ones in the original DX, or the AI in Deus Ex was blind as a bat when the ones in DX:HR can see through shadows (not that I'm happy with that...)