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ryuken3k
7th Jun 2010, 15:38
Why do the cities look more futuristic than its sequels? New York City in the first Deus Ex looks like it's from the 90s. It looks and sounds like from the full trailer for DX: HR, that the prequel game is getting the JJ Abrams Star Trek makeover.

Kodaemon
7th Jun 2010, 15:42
http://img143.imageshack.us/img143/7465/hellskitchenw.jpg

http://img248.imageshack.us/img248/8214/timessquaree.jpg

PC Gamer:
So most of the game is close to reality: a Blade Runner buzz of blaring neon, dense cities, dark streets and sparse, arty interiors. The biggest exception is an island city off the coast of Shanghai which, to put it simply, has a second floor. One of the global leaders in the cybernetic market took the entire thing over when they made their fortune, but the government wouldn't permit them to expand. So they built a new city on top of the old one, leaving it in perpetual gloom. In game, it's a hell of a thing to see: as if someone had cored the Big Apple and sunk it into the sea.

"Our seaport looks just like a seaport," Jacques-Belletete says, "but you turn your head and there's that crazy double-decker city right there. It's that juxtaposition we're doing all time, and I think that's what cyberpunk is. The old is still there, but that crazy newness has just been wrapped over it."

PenguinsFriend
7th Jun 2010, 15:44
Why do the cities look more futuristic than its sequels? New York City in the first Deus Ex looks like it's from the 90s. It looks and sounds like from the full trailer for DX: HR, that the prequel game is getting the JJ Abrams Star Trek makeover.

Economic collapse maybe? Perhaps they recycled all the neon to earn $$? :)

MechBFP
7th Jun 2010, 15:45
http://img143.imageshack.us/img143/7465/hellskitchenw.jpg

http://img248.imageshack.us/img248/8214/timessquaree.jpg

PC Gamer:


Rofl, hit the nail right on the head with that post.

Blade_hunter
7th Jun 2010, 15:52
Hey Kodaemon if the cities looked like your second picture we wouldn't complain, at least I wouldn't ;)
Even if Hell's kitchen looked more like your first picture, that was made to give a poverty feel.
But look even the augmented people are more futuristic than the ones in the first DX
http://img189.imageshack.us/img189/992/borg76.jpg

You can watch this, this is closer to what gunther or anna are than what we can see in this game

sonicsidewinder
7th Jun 2010, 15:55
Was thinking the same thing. When it comes to playing it however, i probobly wont be thinking too much of the 1st game and just take it as it comes.

As far as this game is concerned in the timeline, There wasn't a civil war with the NSF yet, and there was no Grey Death epidemic, so everythin' looks fine an dandy - with a gold tinge added just to make it look funky.:cool:

Kodaemon
7th Jun 2010, 16:00
The first picture IS Hell's Kitchen ;) The second one is Times Square. And really, none of the Detroit scenes of the trailer look more outlandish than that. Shanghai is a different story, but it's explained rather nicely by mr Belletete.

As far as the look of augs go: looks are pure aesthetic. Functional-wise, DX1's engine just wasn't cut out for the sort of awesome augs Adam & co get, and let's be honest here, especially not with DX1's character animators.

Wynand
7th Jun 2010, 16:03
Functional-wise, DX1's engine just wasn't cut out for the sort of awesome augs Adam & co get, and let's be honest here, especially not with DX1's character animators.

This, the game engine just didn't allow for a more detailed surrounding.

Hiver
7th Jun 2010, 16:31
Design moves on with the times. Todays artists have better tools, better tech and are building upon previous creations that serve as a foundation.
You cant go back that literary.

Dan0rz
7th Jun 2010, 17:54
Hey Kodaemon if the cities looked like your second picture we wouldn't complain, at least I wouldn't ;)
Even if Hell's kitchen looked more like your first picture, that was made to give a poverty feel.
But look even the augmented people are more futuristic than the ones in the first DX
http://img189.imageshack.us/img189/992/borg76.jpg

You can watch this, this is closer to what gunther or anna are than what we can see in this game

as gunther's augs are a) directly inspired by batoh from ghost in the shell and b) look absolutely nothing like that, i'm not sure what your point is

Slaughts208
7th Jun 2010, 19:49
To be fair, most of the locations shown in the first game were not exactly prime examples of futuristic stuff anyway. Hell's Kitchen...I mean even today it looks old :hmm:. Paris wasn't explored much and it's possible JC was brought into the more historical sections of the city. Hong Kong was about as close to futuristic as you can get. If you go up to the top floor of the Versa-Life office building and look outside the window to the background, it looks like there is more futuristic stuff there. So there is probably these futuristic buildings and structures there in the first game, you just don't get to see the proper venues of it if you want to tie it in story wise.

Of course the official excuse is the graphics at the time couldn't support it and of course technology from 1999/2000 changed.

PooMonkey
7th Jun 2010, 20:02
Another reason the augmentations look better could be because by the time of DX, almost all augmentations were nanoaugmentations which indicate unable to be seen. Mechanical augmentations are going to be more visible simply by the nature of the augmentation. Maybe Gunther and Anna both had visible/mechanical augmentations as a holdover from the old augmentations we'll be seeing in this game. (At least, this is a possible in-game explanation of why. The real reasoning is still the tools and capabilities at the time DX was made compared to now.) Just a thought :hmm:

Dead-Eye
7th Jun 2010, 21:40
Another reason the augmentations look better could be because by the time of DX, almost all augmentations were nanoaugmentations which indicate unable to be seen. Mechanical augmentations are going to be more visible simply by the nature of the augmentation. Maybe Gunther and Anna both had visible/mechanical augmentations as a holdover from the old augmentations we'll be seeing in this game. (At least, this is a possible in-game explanation of why. The real reasoning is still the tools and capabilities at the time DX was made compared to now.) Just a thought :hmm:

You are misinformed. Only JC and Paul had Nano augmentations and they were both bata testers.

Ashpolt
7th Jun 2010, 21:45
^^ And Walton Simons and Bob Page.

WildcatPhoenix
7th Jun 2010, 22:22
So you're telling me that, since we have shiny new computers with UBER_L33TZOMG graphics that it automatically dictates a more futuristic setting?

Look at (gulp!) Modern Warfare 2 or Splinter Cell or any other game set in modern day. You can get stunning graphics filled with eye-popping detail and yet have a level set in a *****hole. I'd love to see a more detailed Hell's Kitchen, or Hong Kong canals, or gritty urban hellscapes instead of more Star Wars/Star Trek super-shiny vanilla sci-fi enclaves.

Gah, I know I'm ranting, but the grit and the despair and the tattered clothes made Deus Ex a far more interesting (and plausible) place to visit than yet another utopian science fiction ripoff.

Gaunt88
7th Jun 2010, 22:39
Uh, have you seen the view of Detroit from adam's apartment window? That's not a super-shiny vanilla sci-fi enclave. Same with the view from the MifotW's window (presumably in the Sariff building). The other images of Detroit from the trailer are the same - the riot scene looks like it could be set in the CBD of any city today. Adam fights Barret and those guards in a dirty loading dock straight out of FEAR's first level.

The only super-shiny city we've seen is shanghai, and it's got an excuse, kinda. So don't try and say that every city is too advanced, cos they're not.

Blade_hunter
7th Jun 2010, 22:40
Look at the Eye thing and the fact there is some visible cables on their body
And even if gunther is inspirited by batou from GITS, gunther have much more details on his face than the sole eyes
Yes the point of people thinking that graphics engines made automatically a more futuristic looking is irrelevant.

Kodaemon
8th Jun 2010, 04:56
I'd love to see a more detailed Hell's Kitchen

oh hai (http://www.abload.de/img/4iky0.jpg)

hem dazon 90
8th Jun 2010, 05:06
As a resident of New York (well staten island but i'm making a point) I can assure you that New york is the mist scitzo tech city ever with buildings straight out of altered carbon or the sprawl series right next to old building made at least 100 years ago

Badmaker
8th Jun 2010, 08:54
The separation of a city, i mean lower and upper city is not realistic at all.
This idea, is making the overpopulated cities to live in confort, which is no contemporan at all.
The current governments try the opposite. They try to lower the population number: viruses, earthquakes, wars etc.
I dont like the city separation idea but in other way... it makes more futuristic and thats a good thing.....for a video game.

Kodaemon
8th Jun 2010, 09:06
The double-decker was not planned by the government. It's a private investment.

xParoxysm
8th Jun 2010, 09:59
Functional-wise, DX1's engine just wasn't cut out for the sort of awesome augs Adam & co get, and let's be honest here, especially not with DX1's character animators.

But would you have it any other way?

AaronJ
8th Jun 2010, 10:01
The simple reason is this:

Artistic Direction > Continuity and Canon

Unless its explained by the Collapse.

xParoxysm
8th Jun 2010, 10:03
And consequently:

Continuity > Facts getting in the way of a good story

mr_cyberpunk
8th Jun 2010, 10:15
Rofl, hit the nail right on the head with that post.


Needs more orange though.

Nyysjan
8th Jun 2010, 11:14
Needs more orange though.

Well too bad, you´re getting lemon-lime instead.

Badmaker
8th Jun 2010, 11:57
The double-decker was not planned by the government. It's a private investment.

Id like to hear what are the reasons for a investor with huge ammount money to build "double-decker" ?

Gaunt88
8th Jun 2010, 13:10
According to one of the magazines, an augmentation company pretty much owned the whole island and wanted to expand. The governent wouldn't let them buy any more land, so they started building up.

AaronJ
8th Jun 2010, 18:59
And consequently:

Continuity > Facts getting in the way of a good story

And consequently:

A prequel that contradicts its predecessor ≠ a good story

also,

Ideas staying with creators = not this kind of problem

Angel-A
9th Jun 2010, 00:48
Well too bad, you´re getting lemon-lime instead.

'Cuse me, but this is Deus Ex 3, and in DX3, we only get Orange. Haven't you seen the trailers?

demon boy
9th Jun 2010, 01:10
Even if they started today, it would be difficult to finish building that second deck to Shanghai by 2027.

Jerion
9th Jun 2010, 01:20
Ideas staying with creators = not this kind of problem

Heh. heh. Hehehe. Not in this franchise.

One day you'll know.

Angel/0A
9th Jun 2010, 01:39
Even if they started today, it would be difficult to finish building that second deck to Shanghai by 2027.

They could be pretty close, methinks... (http://all-thats-interesting.tumblr.com/post/676300950/the-evolution-of-shanghai-1990-to-1996-to-2010)

MaxxQ1
9th Jun 2010, 08:45
They could be pretty close, methinks... (http://all-thats-interesting.tumblr.com/post/676300950/the-evolution-of-shanghai-1990-to-1996-to-2010)

Damn! That's a hell of a change over a twenty year period.

Color me impressed.

Although it really shouldn't have suprised me as I had seen before and after pics of Dubai, which isn't quite as much of a change as Shanghai, but still pretty impressive.

Badmaker
9th Jun 2010, 09:44
Building the double-decker will require infinite financial resources and technological resources.
1st off all: 80% of the buildings must be at the same height, so the double-decker can be builded.
2nd: the people must agree that they will live in a environment without sunlight.
3rd: no1 is really interested in building it.

Nyysjan
9th Jun 2010, 09:55
Building the double-decker will require infinite financial resources and technological resources.
1st off all: 80% of the buildings must be at the same height, so the double-decker can be builded.
2nd: the people must agree that they will live in a environment without sunlight.
3rd: no1 is really interested in building it.

Not sure if you could do it with todays materials/technology, probably (altough it would be horribly expensive).
But this is 17 years into the future, no knowing what changes happen in the meantime.

1: if you're making the double decker, you'd probably have to make it from ground up so the buildings acting as "pillars" could take the weight so the height is not an issue
2: People at the bottom are poor, since when did anyone care what poor people think/want?
3: atm no, cheaper to buy some extra land and build normal skyscrapers instead, but as it is ingame someone ingame universe wanted to build it (and scraped together the resources to do it).

El_Bel
9th Jun 2010, 09:58
2: The courts care. I know most of us think that no one give 2 **** about the poor, but no matter what country you are from, you cant just ignore the laws like that.

Badmaker
9th Jun 2010, 10:11
Not sure if you could do it with todays materials/technology, probably (altough it would be horribly expensive).
But this is 17 years into the future, no knowing what changes happen in the meantime.

1: if you're making the double decker, you'd probably have to make it from ground up so the buildings acting as "pillars" could take the weight so the height is not an issue
2: People at the bottom are poor, since when did anyone care what poor people think/want?
3: atm no, cheaper to buy some extra land and build normal skyscrapers instead, but as it is ingame someone ingame universe wanted to build it (and scraped together the resources to do it).

1. What about earthquake problem ? We know, the east Asia is a high risk earthquake zone.
2. I agree, even today no1 cares about very poor people(sadly :( ) but we must agree that the current governments try to lower the population number, but not making the conditions for more people to live in megapolises.
(Take DX1 for intance - Gray Death. In our days: all the wars, chemical agents, even natural cataclysms are made by those secret organizations, men behind presidents etc).
3. Yes, double-decker creates a cybernetic athmosphere, thats good for a sci-fi game .

MaxxQ1
9th Jun 2010, 10:17
1. What about earthquake problem ? We know, the east Asia is a high risk earthquake zone.

Yeah, well California is pretty high on the earthquake scale, and that doesn't stop them from building skyscrapers and such (although they *do* earthquake-proof as much as is feasible - don't see any reason why Shanghai wouldn't take a page from *that* notebook).



2. I agree, even today no1 cares about very poor people(sadly :( ) but we must agree that the current governments try to lower the population number, but not making the conditions for more people to live in megapolises.
(Take DX1 for intance - Gray Death. In our days: all the wars, chemical agents, even natural cataclysms are made by those secret organizations, men behind presidents etc).

Please tell me you don't really believe that (in bold).

Badmaker
9th Jun 2010, 10:20
@MaxxQ1, ever heard about Nikola Tesla ?
Google it, find the inventions he made, how the scientist today advanced them, then report back.

MaxxQ1
9th Jun 2010, 10:27
@MaxxQ1, ever heard about Nikola Tesla ?
Google it, find the inventions he made, how the scientist today advanced them, then report back.

Oh, lord. More Tesla. No thanks, I'll pass.

Sure, the guy was something of a genius, and he was screwed over by Edison, but to think that any of his stuff is being used nowadays to control natural cataclysms is just ludicrous. Even more so when you toss in the "men behind the curtains".

Conspiracies are great for games, books and movies, but in real life? The kind you're talking about? I highly doubt it.

Don't bother pointing me to any search terms or throwing up some links, because I don't go for this stuff in anything but entertainment.

<waiting for the obligatory "moon landing was faked" crap>

Badmaker
9th Jun 2010, 10:31
I wont even try to convince any1, its just my oppinion thats all.

El_Bel
9th Jun 2010, 10:32
Jesus Christ, conspiracy nuts never cease to amuse me. No there is no machine that creates hurricanes, earthquakes or whatever. Tesla was smart, maybe genius, but he wasnt that smart nor he was a magician.

Badmaker
9th Jun 2010, 10:34
just google HAARP and see for yourself. And knowing some conpiracy theories doesnt do any harm at all. Its better to know a little more than the people who watch TV and other mass media sources every day.

El_Bel
9th Jun 2010, 10:44
I know all of the conspiracy theories, and they are good for fun. I just dont believe them.


And by knowing a little more then the people who watch TV (i am surprised you didnt call them sheep) is not good if it is just fantasies. I mean i know lots of stuff that people who watch tv dont know. I was a Storyteller at several Dnd campaigns and i know how the world was build. I also know how our world was made according Demon the fallen rpg, and how vampire were created! All of them are so important as conspiracy theories.

PerfectTear
9th Jun 2010, 11:53
Well there were many wars after the vents of DE3, so no wonder everything was so F** up.
You had a new civil war in USA as the states of Washington, Oregon, Idaho, Montana , California , Arizona , Texas Nevada and Wyoming tryed to defect and failed, and later on formed the NSF. And the same in Europe with the Silhouette. And not to mention the "accidental" worldwide leak of the nano-enthancing virus known as the gray death.

qJohnnyp
9th Jun 2010, 12:18
2: The courts care. I know most of us think that no one give 2 **** about the poor, but no matter what country you are from, you cant just ignore the laws like that.

Shanghai is in China.
It's not a country where human rights are respected AFAIK.

qJohnnyp
9th Jun 2010, 12:23
Oh, lord. More Tesla. No thanks, I'll pass.

Sure, the guy was something of a genius, and he was screwed over by Edison, but to think that any of his stuff is being used nowadays to control natural cataclysms is just ludicrous. Even more so when you toss in the "men behind the curtains".

http://www.technologyreview.com/energy/18836/?a=f

His wireless energy transfer ideas have been ridiculed and neglected for almost 100 years. Only now we are returning to them and making fantastic breakthroughs.
Perhaps his other ideas (like scalars) would turn out to be achievable after all?

Angel/0A
9th Jun 2010, 14:55
Building the double-decker will require infinite financial resources and technological resources.
1st off all: 80% of the buildings must be at the same height, so the double-decker can be builded.
2nd: the people must agree that they will live in a environment without sunlight.
3rd: no1 is really interested in building it.


Not sure if you could do it with todays materials/technology, probably (altough it would be horribly expensive).
But this is 17 years into the future, no knowing what changes happen in the meantime.

1: if you're making the double decker, you'd probably have to make it from ground up so the buildings acting as "pillars" could take the weight so the height is not an issue
2: People at the bottom are poor, since when did anyone care what poor people think/want?
3: atm no, cheaper to buy some extra land and build normal skyscrapers instead, but as it is ingame someone ingame universe wanted to build it (and scraped together the resources to do it).

On a much smaller scale of course, but this is an example of something done with today's technology (http://www.marinabaysands.com/SandsSkypark/Sands_Sky_Park.aspx).

MaxxQ1
9th Jun 2010, 18:00
just google HAARP and see for yourself. And knowing some conpiracy theories doesnt do any harm at all. Its better to know a little more than the people who watch TV and other mass media sources every day.

As I pointed out in another thread, I haven't owned a TV in over 6 years, and I don't watch TV on the computer (hulu and such), except for DVD sets of series. And, as El_Bel said, conspiracies are for entertainment, not real life. Human nature being what it is, there's no way a conspiracy such as the Illuminati could survive in secret for so long without *someone getting verifiable information out to the world. Especially nowadays with the internet.


http://www.technologyreview.com/energy/18836/?a=f

His wireless energy transfer ideas have been ridiculed and neglected for almost 100 years. Only now we are returning to them and making fantastic breakthroughs.
Perhaps his other ideas (like scalars) would turn out to be achievable after all?

Sure, some of his stuff bears a closer look now, but we still aren't at the point where this stuff could be currently operational.