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Kainslegacy
21st Mar 2014, 16:25
Okay, I've played many games. Many people might know who i am from alpha. But now that beta has hit I've become so angry at this game. Why you may ask? Because of all the casuals and new people who infest the match making. And when they do bad and ruin the game for everyone else they just begin to troll and rage at the team for everything that they did wrong. The amount of troll in nosgoth is beginning to grow and I just really want a ranked match making system so bad. Or at the very least can we please have the people below level 10 locked into their own que? Because they literally ruin countless matches. I know there was a thread about this before but i couldn't find it so i made a new one.

Razaiim
21st Mar 2014, 16:40
This happens with every game release, ever. New players mix in with the older ones and shake things up a bit. This is part of online gaming.

Strike5150
21st Mar 2014, 16:48
Just don't feed the trolls and maybe try to look for some friends to queue with, that way its a little less noticeable when someone still needs to learn the game. That should help overall in improving your experience :).

Razaiim
21st Mar 2014, 16:51
And take some time to help him, I remember when Strike Sausage and I taught this Aquilius dude, and he shaped up to be a great player in under an hour.

Kainslegacy
21st Mar 2014, 16:52
You know i try to queue with friends but since we are almost never on the same team i end up trying to out carry 2 people with the new trolls on my team. And yes its part of online gaming but you would think they'd have the decency to use the noob queue specifically made for them.

MarinePikachu
21st Mar 2014, 18:02
Yea it really sucks. I really hope that Corey can get the party system out by next week. I try to play this game but its becoming more of a pain than fun. Im pretty much always playing with 3 noobs on my team and that is really terrible. I have went games where I go 17-3 with 20k+ dmg and still end up losing. How is that even possible? It is also really annoying when the worst noob on the team blames the entire team for losing but his kda is the worst and his dmg is like 3k near end match (really annoys me how people are so arrogant)

Oroibahazopi
21st Mar 2014, 18:10
Ask yourself this, how hard really would it have been to implement a locked lobby to keep alpha testers from leaving in droves.

Vampmaster
21st Mar 2014, 18:20
Isn't this what mute is for? Besides, not every new player is a troll.

Oroibahazopi
21st Mar 2014, 18:21
Unfortunately you can't mute bad out of people.

Kainslegacy
21st Mar 2014, 18:40
No Oro you cannot and that is indeed the sad part. I honestly think this needs to be addressed though because i literally just went the whole morning and have dropped from 85% win rate to a 60% win rate because of new players infesting the lobbies.

Wobbley
21st Mar 2014, 20:17
I understand you, I just try to queue with enough friends to we at least get friends on both teams. I can't wait for the team matchmaking though :D

Boreaquis
21st Mar 2014, 22:18
And take some time to help him, I remember when Strike Sausage and I taught this Aquilius dude, and he shaped up to be a great player in under an hour.

Speaking as "this Aquilius dude", I approve of this message. I also agree with what Strike mentioned. Queue with friends (or find friends on Raidcall), and you'll have a much better time, because you'll know that even though these new players aren't playing as well as you, they're trying and improving over team.

Speaking of which, why haven't I seen you on Raidcall for a while, Sirshua? ;)

Tureil
21st Mar 2014, 22:56
Everyone's gotta start somewhere. Yeah, there'll always be terribad people and trolls.... Some guys are just gonna be getting their acts together. Give people the benefit of the doubt and remember you weren't always where you were now.

I'm not saying don't get pissed off at guys who are absolute crap and don't listen to advice. I'm just ssaying don't write off the newer generations cuz who knows where they'll be in a month.

Vampmaster
22nd Mar 2014, 02:30
I don't think unskilled players who could be legitimately trying their best to cooperate with their team and help win the game should be lumped in with those who are intentionally spoiling the game for everyone else.

cmstache
22nd Mar 2014, 02:58
Speaking as "this Aquilius dude", I approve of this message. I also agree with what Strike mentioned. Queue with friends (or find friends on Raidcall), and you'll have a much better time, because you'll know that even though these new players aren't playing as well as you, they're trying and improving over team.

Speaking of which, why haven't I seen you on Raidcall for a while, Sirshua? ;)


He was on yesterday evening.


And believe it or not, most people don't intentionally ruin games. Many new players don't queue in the new recruits lobby because they don't understand the teamwork needed and the skill gap in just an hour's worth of play. That being said, it's their own impatience. The problem with locking the new recruits into that lobby is that it will give way to people making new accounts and farming newbies once the game opens up later on. This is inevitable, and I find it a horrid thing to do, as it prevents new players from even staying often enough. However, every game has them. Locking them into that just makes it worse, as those are the kind of people who are just bullies and WON'T help anyone, ever.

Your problem is that you're worried too much about K/D/A and win %. It's a team game, without teams atm. Stats for players are little more than cosmetics atm. You should be focusing on helping them, and doing YOUR best, regardless of teams. You may not win, but I promise you, a good player still recognizes your skill. Don't get me wrong, I'm as competitive as they get, but when it's essentially lone queueing atm, it's pointless to worry about it until pre-sets are allowed again.

Kainslegacy
22nd Mar 2014, 03:41
I'll try to calm down. Thats pretty much all i can say lol

Wobbley
22nd Mar 2014, 13:00
Today I had some pretty bad games, it too ages to actually fill up a lobby, and me and kotovich got two players who were level 1. At the end of the round we had 12k damage each and the lvl 1 players had 2k. It was a pretty depressing game. I just left after the first round. I guess I am too used to playing with friends, perhaps it's time to put the game on the shelf until they get a party system going. I just become a douche when I see sub lvl 5 players not using the Recruit game mode.

I love when we manage to get some team play going, but queuing solo it feels more like a singleplayer game where are 3 other dudes also wanting to kill vampires on their own. Not to mention broken team chat kind of makes planning things that much harder/pointless. I do it anyways though :p

cmstache
22nd Mar 2014, 13:26
That's sounds good Kain. To be fair, you do trends to rage a lot. But, this goes to show how important the teams are too being implemented.

Razaiim
22nd Mar 2014, 16:39
Speaking as "this Aquilius dude", I approve of this message. I also agree with what Strike mentioned. Queue with friends (or find friends on Raidcall), and you'll have a much better time, because you'll know that even though these new players aren't playing as well as you, they're trying and improving over team.

Speaking of which, why haven't I seen you on Raidcall for a while, Sirshua? ;)

Hey I'm on for a couple hours each day, but lately I've been busy with school and trying to get summer work. Also I've been getting quickly annoyed by a combination of stuff in the game. Your more likely to find me after a major patch now than anyother time. I also get put on timeout alot since apparently some kind of noise comes through my mic when I'm not talking and I have no idea what causes it.

And yes I think a big part of the anger is people caring too much about profile stats, which is a mentality carried over from alot of other pvp environments. I get it, but in a game like this at this stage in time, it does no good to obsess over your win/loss.

LOFO1993
22nd Mar 2014, 23:22
I honestly feel like everyone is getting retarded since the Beta started.


I must have played like one thousand matches in the Alpha, and I barely ever met someone really concerned with wins and stats, and still they were never really offensive, they just cared and enraged when they lost.

Now more often than not I end up with/against some idiot who constantly insults their teammates and complains with the opponents, calling everyone names for absolutely no reason and getting seriously offensive after 1 minute into the game. I must have found 3-4 in the last two days, one of which I seriously thought about reporting for how offensive and obnoxious he was.

Mind you, I'm not talking about very new and inexperienced players. They are usually above 20, I even believe some of them were in the Alpha. What the heck is going on?! It's getting really hard to play just to have fun, when you keep getting heavily insulted by some random moron for missing a grenade or "stealing his kills" (which, given the kind of game, should say a lot on their IQ).


Of course I'm not talking about you and your original post, Kainslegacy, I just thought this was the right place to say this.

Vampmaster
23rd Mar 2014, 00:28
Wheaton's Law. Look it up. Obey it. :D

EDIT: Not talking to anyone in particular. Just a general rule that applies to everyone.

Saturnity
23rd Mar 2014, 01:08
Yea it really sucks. I really hope that Corey can get the party system out by next week. I try to play this game but its becoming more of a pain than fun. Im pretty much always playing with 3 noobs on my team and that is really terrible. I have went games where I go 17-3 with 20k+ dmg and still end up losing. How is that even possible? It is also really annoying when the worst noob on the team blames the entire team for losing but his kda is the worst and his dmg is like 3k near end match (really annoys me how people are so arrogant)

Play with the raidcall group. We've gotten a few games where every player was genuinely good.

It takes a lot more effort than it would with a proper party or party vs. party system, though.

MarinePikachu
23rd Mar 2014, 05:14
Play with the raidcall group. We've gotten a few games where every player was genuinely good.

It takes a lot more effort than it would with a proper party or party vs. party system, though.

The likely hood that enough people I would want to play with are also on at the same time ready to play is unlikely. Rather just have a party system.

GenFeelGood
23rd Mar 2014, 15:05
As a fellow alpha I gotta ask, "What is new about this?"

We have been here before. Things were this way back in alpha after we got back from the holiday break. Actually they were worse then because we had to deal with that buggy new matchmaker that constantly matched 1 veteran and 3 noobs vs at least 3 veterans. I can't be the only one that remembers that agony.

Look at in cycles. The new players come in, some stick to new recruit but a lot skip and, because a lot of them skip ,a lot of the rest of them have to skip just to find a match. As we reach the end of closed beta and new players stop coming in, in preparation, the ones here will either get good or get gone like they did in alpha. For the last two weeks or so, we will have those awesome matches like we did near the end of alpha.

If being in alpha taught us anything, it taught us to be patient.

Vucar_Dumat
23rd Mar 2014, 17:22
Okay, I've played many games. Many people might know who i am from alpha. But now that beta has hit I've become so angry at this game. Why you may ask? Because of all the casuals and new people who infest the match making. And when they do bad and ruin the game for everyone else they just begin to troll and rage at the team for everything that they did wrong. The amount of troll in nosgoth is beginning to grow and I just really want a ranked match making system so bad. Or at the very least can we please have the people below level 10 locked into their own que? Because they literally ruin countless matches. I know there was a thread about this before but i couldn't find it so i made a new one.

http://forums.eu.square-enix.com/showthread.php?t=11323

MarinePikachu
23rd Mar 2014, 17:27
@GenFeelGood

Maybe you played earlier in the alpha but at closer to the end of alpha, the people were genuinely good. There were a couple of noobs around but most people were similar lvls capping at 23-25 thus the matchmaking was much more balanced. Back then the lobbies were not infested with noobs. IMO alpha was much better and I had much more fun back then.

(Not Pointed Towards Anyone)
Problem is that new people come in, play a few games in the WRONG lobby then stop playing (hence casual people). Then a new wave of people come in. They again join the WRONG lobby play a few games then stop playing. Thus anyone who actually plays this game consistently is leveling up and getting screwed by constantly having a noob team.

GenFeelGood
23rd Mar 2014, 21:30
I did say that the matches near the end were good, I used the word awesome to describe them. Before that time though there was a noob flood like there is now. Give it some time and eventually the new guys will come into form, help them if you want it to happen quicker, and those who don't will simply stop playing out of frustration. It is sad when that happens but its still part of how it will work itself out.

Boreaquis
23rd Mar 2014, 22:42
I've been thinking that the best solution might be to restrict new players to the 0-10 rank queue. That way, new players would always be matched up with each other. I don't think having new players in your match at higher ranks is fun for either part. The new players just get trounced, and the experienced players don't get challenged.

Kazimira
24th Mar 2014, 02:50
Come on guys it's a team game and we are a community we all newbies and vets can get along right?

Prime_Abstergo
24th Mar 2014, 10:35
As for me I am not so worried about newbies in game sessions. We all were like them at some moment.

It looks like people who complain about this are just .. well, these people care about win rate too much :D

Oh just a quick note. All I want from newbis is simple following rules. The first rule is called "play new Recruit game when you're under lvl10". I know there are issues with queues for NR sessions. Hope founders will fix this problem.

Oroibahazopi
24th Mar 2014, 11:46
What part of "playing with people way above or way below your skill level is absolutely horrible" don't you understand.

It's boring, boring boring boring boring. People will quit and not come back.

PlagueMaster
24th Mar 2014, 11:50
You say that you(tester from alpha) playing better then one who just join game and that is not good? I saw when new players doing bad(me too sometimes) and "alpha" players write in chat something like "omg dat team, noobs, go play with other noobs, you noobs". Not everyone can play as good as you, and there is no 100% win rate here. It's just game, so just play even if you lose, and stop blame people for bad game, bad attitude or something else. Just play, sometimes you got bad team, sometimes - enemy. And mute someone who write bad words and something you don't like.

Oroibahazopi
24th Mar 2014, 11:57
I don't blame the players, I blame Psyonix for taking so long to implement a locked lobby. The ranking I can understand needing decent development time, but not a locked lobby,

HoneyMuffins
24th Mar 2014, 13:17
I have to say I have not experienced any of this at all. I have only met one horrible person and that was it. No offence but I think that a lot of people are probably missing out a lot of information from what has happened to them, I for one don't like to say things that would be negative to someone or a new player. I see a lot of times people saying how badly they'e doing or just something not needed to be said.

f there is a new person I like to at least tell them how to feed or use healing stations, stuff like that, no point in making it hell for them just because they maybe didn't even see the new recruit area. After the game I'd say it's best for them to use to new recruit area if they want but not be like "You SHOULD use the Recruit matchmaking" I know sometimes it can be horrible to lose really badly and we often look at things to blame, a lot of people like to vocalise these thoughts whereas I rather keep it inside.

What I'm trying to say is don't be so negative, yeh you're losing, so what? you win some you lose some. Stats are stats, nobody can see them apart from you, so I agree with the fact that people are angry over there stats being ruined or the matchmaking but you have to understand there are a lot of players who just want to play for fun or don't play as often as some of us. I think matchmaking needs to be better and a limitation for level 10's and under. Also I think there should be tool tips on the new recruit games, telling them about stuff, so if they're near a body maybe show larger text and stuff like that, every little helps. Sorry for the long message D:

GenFeelGood
24th Mar 2014, 17:18
Turning this frustration towards the new guys in general isn't helping anything. I don't want there to be contempt between the alphas and betas over a misunderstanding. So let me try to give a history lesson to clarify some things for both sides.

In the last month of alpha testing the developers stopped bringing in new guys in anticipation of the closed beta launch, because of that, within the last 2 weeks or so of alpha there were hardly any new people left. Everybody playing knew how to play and we played to win, this created matches that were consistently close, brutal, and gritty, just the kind we all like.

This spoiled a lot of us and a lot of us expected it to continue on into closed beta, but instead it became a repeat of the time before that last month when there were so many new people skipping new recruit that they sometimes made up more than half of a death match lobby. If there are alphas that don't remember those days then, "You were one of those new people."

We look back on the alpha days with rose tinted spectacles, but only when it comes to the last month. I'll admit I miss that time a little as well, but I also remember the dark times like after the holiday break when the buggy matchmaker turned almost every match into a joke and before the holiday break when there were so few of us I played the same 10-15 people every time for maybe more than a month.

These are better days than back in alpha and they are only gonna get better. Screw the scoreboard, just make the game fun for you. During the buggy matchmaker days I focused on improving my solo play. When there were more new people than regulars I dropped words of wisdom during the final countdown at the start of each round so they could understand how to play effectively.

Human
"Stay in each others line of sight and watch each others back."
Vampire
"Make each life count, get the kill otherwise avoid getting killed."

They skip new recruit because they can never find a match and, because they skip, none of the others can find a match in new recruit. Its a cycle that is going to repeat itself because that is what happens in closed games where access is limited. Once this becomes open beta, new recruit will almost always have enough players to make a match and the skipping should no longer be necessary.

MarinePikachu
24th Mar 2014, 17:54
You say that you(tester from alpha) playing better then one who just join game and that is not good? I saw when new players doing bad(me too sometimes) and "alpha" players write in chat something like "omg dat team, noobs, go play with other noobs, you noobs". Not everyone can play as good as you, and there is no 100% win rate here. It's just game, so just play even if you lose, and stop blame people for bad game, bad attitude or something else. Just play, sometimes you got bad team, sometimes - enemy. And mute someone who write bad words and something you don't like.

I actually don't think you understand how the higher levels feel. Its not sometimes you get a bad team its ALWAYS. You say just play the game, how can you when your entire team is basically nonexistent? After so many terrible games with noobs its hard not to get mad. The game just needs to have more separation between more experienced players and new players so that we all can enjoy the game instead of everyone getting pissed.

We understand people have to start somewhere and we were all noobs once but they don't have to start in experienced player's lobbies.

killdrith
24th Mar 2014, 19:21
Nobody has an issue with an occasional new player. The problem is that it's a rare gift currently to get into a game that isn't 1 really experienced player and 7 vastly lower players. A larger player base will fix this, but in the mean time there needs to be a solution or the experienced players will continue to duck out.

PlagueMaster
25th Mar 2014, 14:48
I actually don't think you understand how the higher levels feel. Its not sometimes you get a bad team its ALWAYS. You say just play the game, how can you when your entire team is basically nonexistent? After so many terrible games with noobs its hard not to get mad. The game just needs to have more separation between more experienced players and new players so that we all can enjoy the game instead of everyone getting pissed.

We understand people have to start somewhere and we were all noobs once but they don't have to start in experienced player's lobbies.



I am 20+ lvl, and most of time I am only one high lvl. Some people on low lvl is terrible, I was too when I play first time this game. New players don't know that as humans they shouldn't run around alone, as vampires you should not start fight as sentinel. And when I get such team and oppose team is like godlike pro I am mad. But I mad on myself - I play much longer then my teammates and I must carry them, but I didn't, and that is bad. people carry me when I was new and we must carry new people now. Not so much people play now, so we must have patience to those who new here.

HereticSage
25th Mar 2014, 16:05
I admit that this issue has stopped me from playing. I'm not really that great at the game, I'm okay, so my issue is that I either wind up with one who is vastly better than me and a bunch of new players, and the game seems to expect me to match up against the guy who has way more experience in the game than me, or I wind up with 3 newbies vs 4 meh players who know enough about the game to crush the newbies. That's when I lose. Obviously I get my own curb-stomp battles, but those aren't really fun either and seem to be a brief respite. I stuck with it for awhile 'cause I know betas aren't always fun, but you can't really find bugs when you're getting stomped or plain stomping the enemy. And it's not like I made enough friends in-game to always play with them.

EffiePerine
27th Mar 2014, 09:32
I agree with LOFO1993.

But anyways, I'm lately running into the problem where I get pulled into lobbies that are already midmatch....Only to discover that people have been ditching their games. Literally, I once cycled through three or four different teams in ONE match because people could not take the fact that they were on the losing end. Not saying people stuck it out during Alpha 100% and didn't ragequit, but this time, it's so much more blatant. My days on Nosgoth lately consist of only fighting alongside one other guy really. Maybe I just have the worst luck!
Your thread made me wonder if there's a connection...
+I took a week's break from playing and oh lord is it difficult trying to get back into playing Nosgoth...I wish I could go back to noob lobby ;n;

Ygdrasel
31st Mar 2014, 19:23
Because they literally ruin countless matches.

How so? You can still play the match and enjoy it. If not, that's a personal issue and not on them. Protip: Quit equating "fun" with "winning" (which is a dreadful mindset in general) and actually enjoy the game for the game. You'll have more fun that way. Also, avoid phrases like 'casual plague' because it sounds elitist and laughable. Casuals and trolls are two different, not-necessarily-overlapping things and neither is exactly the Black Death or anything.

That said, a proper matchmaking system obviously should be a priority for the dev team.

KageOfShadows
31st Mar 2014, 23:43
Wheaton's Law. Look it up. Obey it. :D

EDIT: Not talking to anyone in particular. Just a general rule that applies to everyone.

This people. Sooo much of this. If this site allowed +1 I would create 10k alt accounts just to give them all to you ^^

Obisher
1st Apr 2014, 10:19
I think there is one more problem concerning lots of new players, and I believe I'm one of those problems as well. So, I'm an owner of Vampire pack and with it I've got minor founder's booster. That allowed me to level up very quickly (lvl 20 at the moment), but I think my skill isn't sufficient for that level.

Okay, I can say I'm quite skilled with vampires, and in most cases I end up first or second on my team, according to scoreboards. But as a human, I'm just terrible. I'm trying to stick with the team, but when group of vampires attack, I get quite easily disorientated, and sometimes it looks like the vampires are attacking only me. Sometimes I have almost 10 deaths as a human. But I'm trying to improve.

So yeah, I think those boosters gave some imbalance because lots of players (including me) leveled up too quickly. And I wouldn't use that booster at all until I reached some higher level, but since it's limited for 30 days, it would be illogical not to use it.

But I agree, there are a lot of crybabies. There was one guy in my team who wrote to us "Stop dying so much". But the interesting thing is, he had 0 deaths and did barely 300 damage, while all other guys on my team, including me, had averagely 2 deaths and over 2k damage each.


....Only to discover that people have been ditching their games. Literally, I once cycled through three or four different teams in ONE match because people could not take the fact that they were on the losing end

And this is what frustrates me the most! People leaving match... Yesterday there was again a 5vs3 battle, and I was on the "3" team. Both of my teammates left, so for a while I played 5vs1. Eventually, few more people joined and someone from the "5" team left so it was a normal 4vs4. I swear, I'll start writing down names of these ragequitters. I'm trying to have fun while playing game, even when I'm losing, and only times I have left a match was due to some crashes or my computer freezing. So it wasn't intentional.

Gryregaest
2nd Apr 2014, 04:45
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Bxauqa7rJgI

(I couldn't resist)

Prime_Abstergo
2nd Apr 2014, 08:56
Don't care about noobs. Just dislike people leaving mid-game.

Start to enjoy 2x3 matches on the '2'-side xD

RazielOfNosgoth
2nd Apr 2014, 12:39
Wheaton's Law does sum it up nicely, for all players. http://forums.eu.square-enix.com/images/icons/icon3.png

I play all matches, however imbalanced. We were in a 4v1 match and had fun, playing hide and seek, practicing our skills on each other, taking photos, goofing around, exploring things you otherwise don't have time to... If we get balanced out, we fight but all in good spirit. It really does come down to who you're playing with.

Here's a screenshot we made on Valeholm in a 4v2 match to show that Vampires and Humans know true sportsmanship:

http://i302.photobucket.com/albums/nn110/Raziel_Nosgoth/HelloTeamPsyonix_zpsc37ffc53.jpg (http://s302.photobucket.com/user/Raziel_Nosgoth/media/HelloTeamPsyonix_zpsc37ffc53.jpg.html)

So, assuming the risk of repeating myself:

Wheaton's Law does sum it up nicely, for all players. http://forums.eu.square-enix.com/images/icons/icon3.png

Calverp
5th Apr 2014, 11:12
Firstly, I'm sure I'm not alone in being someone who avoids the "newbie" servers out of a desire to play against more skilled players where I can actually learn the non-obvious tricks and playstyles.
Secondly, the obvious "fix" is just to implement a Rank system alongside the level system that would be determined by player stats alone and use that for matchmaking.

cmstache
5th Apr 2014, 11:17
While that's respectable, you have to learn to walk before you can run. It doesn't take long to hit lvl 10. Just hit 10, then we cam talk about tricks.

Oroibahazopi
5th Apr 2014, 11:21
Firstly, I'm sure I'm not alone in being someone who avoids the "newbie" servers out of a desire to play against more skilled players where I can actually learn the non-obvious tricks and playstyles.
Secondly, the obvious "fix" is just to implement a Rank system alongside the level system that would be determined by player stats alone and use that for matchmaking.
I'd be highly surprised if people were using any of the glitchy stuff regularly in matches atm. All you need is an hit rate of 50%+ and to know when to use your stuns as a human, vampires are much easier.

Ranks are on the horizon, as well as locked lobbies.

BOOMstyx
8th Apr 2014, 13:27
hah, I know what you mean. I haven't been around since alpha or anything, but I'm not completely new either. As soon as I read your post it reminded me of this this one kid who kept talking smack because I was supposedly, "running off by myself." He didn't realize, I kept dying last and they rest of the team that wiped in .5 seconds was just spawning across the map from me. didnt' stop him from running his mouth as if i had spawned with them and made it across the map at twice the speed they were moving some how.