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Anansios
30th Sep 2013, 20:32
The gameplay looks pretty fun. Perhaps we can help generate ideas for expanded gameplay for player retention.
Killing is always fun, but as Melchiah (never) says "There's more than one way to skin a human." :P

*Edit: I wanted to post these links so that people could have a better idea of how the game currently functions by people that played the game: I read these same reviews before I came up with the following ideas.
It might be worth you checking out the thread:
http://forums.eu.square-enix.com/showthread.php?t=7189 (hope the link works)

…thoughts on the game by some of the people who have played it and are have been allowed to report on it :D



Smoke stacks

Humans must destroy smoke stacks to unveil patches of sunlight.
Patches of sunlight damage/cripple high level Vampires and damage or kill low level vampires.


Evacuation

Humans must rescue/guide civilians (npcs?)as they reach safe havens.


Fledglings

Vampires must drag humans to specific spots (Dens/nests).
*could have weak AI vamps generated.* or not.
Humans must kill vampires or dragged victims.*
Humans can rescue victims or destroy den/nest


Cathedral Bell Tower

Vampires must kill humans, or workers, before they complete the bell tower.
Activated Bell tower wipes out the vampires.
workers could be NPC's or Players



Pillar Guardians (bear with me)

According to lore, humans can be born as Guardians and Guardians were (supposed to be) made into vampires.*
Objective: Eliminate the opposing guardians.
So, some (one per team?)Vampires and Humans are Pillar Guardians.*
Guardians could have a special 'pillar' ability.



Alternatively, if NPC characters could be incorporated into the game...

At intervals, 1 (or more) Human Guardian NPC could appear on the map.
Objective:
--Human: Find NPC and bring it to the Pillar.
--Vampire: Kill/Drag off NPC and deliver Dark Gift. Escort NPC to the Pillar.
Whoever gets majority wins!
...without NPC's... Players could have to kill Guardian players and bring their Token (ala Blood Omen 1) to the Pillar to cleanse it.


Kain is the Balance Guardian so best of 8. There could be a tie!

LOFO1993
30th Sep 2013, 21:19
I don't think the Pillars thing would make any sense, considering the Pillars are already long fallen when this game takes place. No Guardians could ever be born because of Kain's decision.

For the rest, nice ideas.

I know it's something the developers are not planning right now, but I would like to suggest anyway the addition of some kind of cooperative-only mode; I mean, some missions where a group of players face some NPCs and has some particular task.

Even if that's not possible at all I would really like to see some particular kind of missions, like assault-defence or VIP or anything else. The gameplay looks really fun, the worst fear I have is it could become repetitive too soon. Different kinds of missions, and I mean different from just people killing each other repeatedly without really caring much for anything else, would surely help a lot.

Wraithblade6
30th Sep 2013, 21:43
I like the ideas, except the pillars ones. Cooperative missions sounds cool. Any chance for betrayal in there?

Vampmaster
30th Sep 2013, 21:55
How about a mode where vampires have to guard and escort a clan leader? The Dumahim would be trying to chase the humans out of the Ash Village, the Zephonim would be invading the not-yet-silenced cathedral, the Turelim could maybe do what you said with the Smoke Stacks, the Razielim maybe the roles would be reversed in this one and it's the human leaders who need defending. Maybe Melchiah would have captured humans ready to but in his grinding machine and the humans would need to rescue them.

Only one ending could be canon in this game mode, but I think it would be easy enough for people to figure out which.

Anansios
30th Sep 2013, 22:02
Yeah, the Pillars is a stretch, but it could have been fun if done right. I didn't know new Guardians couldn't be born due to Kain; I only thought a new Balance Guardian couldn't be born. My Blood Omen: LOK lore is a bit shakier.

Co-op would be a fun possibility. I share that same fear of the game becoming forgotten, but then I look at Call of Duty and see that such a fear can certainly be dealt with :P

A lot depends on if NPC's can be implemented.
Example: Rescue.
Say you have 4 humans npc's. If you could give orders (perhaps using skills) for things like 'move there, follow, stop' (starcraft like) a lof of strategy could come into play. Send one human npc out in the open and make 3 humans npc's follow your team to safety.
Send one human npc out in the open as bait for a trap. Pick off the Vampire and then try and get everyone to the safe zone.
Capture the living flag, so to speak lol.

Simple mechanics allow lot's of creativity. :)


How about a mode where vampires have to guard and escort a clan leader?


Ooohh that would be an Awesome scenario! The Clan Leader could be an active player/npc, or dormant in the state-of-change!
I like!

Vampmaster
30th Sep 2013, 22:09
Actually, forget about what I said for the Razielim. Here's a better Idea:

A number of you're kin are in the State Of Change - hibernating in their coccoons. Humans have to destroy the coccoons before the newly evolved vampires emerge. If the coccoons aren't destroyed in time, the vampires emerge and decimate the humans ending the match. Winning the match unlocks the newly evolved vampires as a new skin you can equip. Cool, huh?

Reidbynature
30th Sep 2013, 22:29
Interesting ideas. Though pillar gaurdians would be too lore bending at this point in time I believe.

LOFO1993
30th Sep 2013, 22:57
Interesting ideas. Though pillar gaurdians would be too lore bending at this point in time I believe.

It would be a fanfiction-level stretching. Speaking for myself, I prefer the developers to come out with a couple of original ideas instead of trying to force into the game just anything coming from the series even if it would be clearly out of context. This is a new game; they should definitively try to stay true to the older LoKs but not everything has to be in here, if it just doesn't belong.

Reidbynature
30th Sep 2013, 23:21
If they're up for game modes that are outside of the lore and are just for the fun of it them I'm game. They just need to make it clear for the lore masters that those game modes are just for fun and don't count in terms of lore.

Zimitry
30th Sep 2013, 23:31
I agree with everyone on the topic of the pillars. Vampires were no longer born since centuries, but since they have eternal life, and the pillars are under their control (they're the throne of Kain's legacy) unless they kill one of the guardians because they don't like him or for betrayal and want a change, that's impossible. Actually, It's most likely that there are no longer any guardians, seing as the pillars are destroyed in this time, so it doesn't follow a true purpose anymore, perhaps simply symbolic.

Other than that mot of your ideas are gold, only problem is that they seem to be more epic on the side of humans, because only humans seem to be doing something cool here. We would have to see how (if ever, let's hope) they bring it to the game, how they balance it so that the vampire part is epic as well, or make other missions too, I'm getting excited just imagining it.

EDIT: Vampmaster pretty addressed the vampire missions perfectly, thoe are some nice ideas. Let's hope they hear us, because they should.

poliquinp
30th Sep 2013, 23:43
I like the Cathedral Bell tower. Make it like an objective mode... I would be great to have a "Two ways" objective, like if vampires are working on a smoke machine that would transform the day into a perma night.

It could be a Best of 2 match. Like World of Warcraft late expansion PvP gameplay maps.

LifeSnatcher
1st Oct 2013, 12:30
Smoke stacks
Humans must destroy smoke stacks to unveil patches of sunlight.
Patches of sunlight damage/cripple high level Vampires and damage or kill low level vampires.

So me as a low lvl vampire if i hit a patch of sunlight i die, GG - time to quit. Imagine the rage on new players that will play this game casual ...and where is the vampire advantage ?

Evacuation
Humans must rescue/guide civilians (npcs?)as they reach safe havens.

So humans will be in open field, and vampires can attack from everywhere, this one is kinda simple, all vampires can stack, make a tactic and attack whenever they like and when they see a good oportunity while humans are waiting ...


Fledglings
Vampires must drag humans to specific spots (Dens/nests).
*could have weak AI vamps generated.* or not.
Humans must kill vampires or dragged victims.*
Humans can rescue victims or destroy den/nest

Now i wonder what do i do first, protect my nest or go and backstab a human in the other side of the map ? Hmmm, and my victim is still alive ? A human reached my nest, i still have a human alive and i have to protect my nest also ?
But i want to fly to the human side, backstab one of them and fly away in a safe place ... oh noes, i can't find any humans cauze they are killing my nest/victims.

Cathedral Bell Tower
Vampires must kill humans, or workers, before they complete the bell tower.
Activated Bell tower wipes out the vampires.
workers could be NPC's or Players

This is the same with Evacuation, but humans just need to guard a static building, so lets all switch to flamethrower and wait :) oh my oh my ... so much fun for vampires.

Pillar Guardians (bear with me)
According to lore, humans can be born as Guardians and Guardians were (supposed to be) made into vampires.*
Objective: Eliminate the opposing guardians.
So, some (one per team?)Vampires and Humans are Pillar Guardians.*
Guardians could have a special 'pillar' ability.

This one is a little to complicated, every team will stack on the guardian and he will use that skill while is protected.

I don't want to be mean, but i am sure you can expand these ideas.

lucinvampire
1st Oct 2013, 13:56
@ Anansios - Interesting ideas…I like them :D
I think there are a few things that they could do to create mini-games and keep the interest – yes killing things if fun but it can get stale after a while…I think Nosgoth needs something more than just the run of the mill normal modes.
I would suggest a game of Jugga but I’m not sure anyone would know what I’m talking about or if it would work ;)

4nkkah
1st Oct 2013, 14:11
I would love a mode which features only a few vampires and loads of humans. I'd prefer that the vampires would be more powerful than the "regular" vampires from other modes, but the humans could also be weaker than the "regular" humans. Or both.

Some kind of a Hunter vs Hunted scenario. Add to this that the vampires may or may not resurrect beaten humans as fledlings to their liking (a boost of some sort if the vampire decides to "devour" the human vs. one [weaker] ally)

AlterRequiem
2nd Oct 2013, 02:35
Smoke stacks
Humans must destroy smoke stacks to unveil patches of sunlight.
Patches of sunlight damage/cripple high level Vampires and damage or kill low level vampires.

So me as a low lvl vampire if i hit a patch of sunlight i die, GG - time to quit. Imagine the rage on new players that will play this game casual ...and where is the vampire advantage ?

Evacuation
Humans must rescue/guide civilians (npcs?)as they reach safe havens.

So humans will be in open field, and vampires can attack from everywhere, this one is kinda simple, all vampires can stack, make a tactic and attack whenever they like and when they see a good oportunity while humans are waiting ...


Fledglings
Vampires must drag humans to specific spots (Dens/nests).
*could have weak AI vamps generated.* or not.
Humans must kill vampires or dragged victims.*
Humans can rescue victims or destroy den/nest

Now i wonder what do i do first, protect my nest or go and backstab a human in the other side of the map ? Hmmm, and my victim is still alive ? A human reached my nest, i still have a human alive and i have to protect my nest also ?
But i want to fly to the human side, backstab one of them and fly away in a safe place ... oh noes, i can't find any humans cauze they are killing my nest/victims.

Cathedral Bell Tower
Vampires must kill humans, or workers, before they complete the bell tower.
Activated Bell tower wipes out the vampires.
workers could be NPC's or Players

This is the same with Evacuation, but humans just need to guard a static building, so lets all switch to flamethrower and wait :) oh my oh my ... so much fun for vampires.

Pillar Guardians (bear with me)
According to lore, humans can be born as Guardians and Guardians were (supposed to be) made into vampires.*
Objective: Eliminate the opposing guardians.
So, some (one per team?)Vampires and Humans are Pillar Guardians.*
Guardians could have a special 'pillar' ability.

This one is a little to complicated, every team will stack on the guardian and he will use that skill while is protected.

I don't want to be mean, but i am sure you can expand these ideas.

good lord M8 hes trying, try not to castrate him. lol

LifeSnatcher
2nd Oct 2013, 13:11
good lord M8 hes trying, try not to castrate him. lol

I'm not gonna even try :) that's yuck :D But i'm sure he can think of something better. I am sure u've seen these modes in some other games, i know i did, so why make something that u played in other game with diff mechanics ?
Here are some simple and original ideas that i didn't see in other games. Took me 5 mins to think about them, is not much, but is something :) If he can combine them to make something nice .. that would be great.

Burnout.
- Each team will need 3-5 players to burn the enemy "base".
- Random "base" spawned in different locations, so it doesn't become boring after a while.
- Vampires must eat some NPC's so they can make dmg to human "base", this ability is granted only for a short period of time, Humans must burn the vampires "base", but they'r combat skills are limited when they pick up the "burning kit". Also the "burning kit" will dissapear after it's used on enemy base.
- The game is decided by time( 15-20 mins - team with most kills win ), dmg to the enemy base or when the base is destroyed.
In case the enemy base is destroyed, winner team takes more points, matches decided by time give les points.

Buff 'N Kill
- Random NPC's spawned in diff locations of the map. 3-4 ( if it's 8 vs 8 or 10 vs 10 ) players in every team must kill them, once a player kills a NPC takes a buff that makes him stronger. Each buff has an ability - HP, Power, Healing, Speed, etc.
- Players that kills one NPC becomes marked for the other team, so they would know that he is buffed.
- When the 3-4 players from one team manage to take all the buffs they become invincible = instant win.
- This mode can also be dediced by time if no team manages to take all the buffs.

Fog 'N Fire
- In this mode there is only pure hunt, the problem is the whole map is covered in fog.
- Humans will have a "torch" skill, wich can they throw and see on some radius ( 10-15 m from where the torch has landed )
- Vampires will have an "eye in the dark" skill, when they use it the can see on a radius of 20-30 m around them, this is just because they are melee.
Also when humans use the "torch" skill a red point will blink on the minimap of vampires for 2-3 seconds.
Also there will be some torches on walls that can be lighted by both teams, they will make light for 30-60 seconds in a radius of 5-8 m.

Zimitry
2nd Oct 2013, 21:46
LifeSnatcher, I know you might think that Anansios doesn't have good ideas, but maybe your thinking it all in a narrow way. Each idea is good, but hard to implement.

In the smokestacks it can be from 4 to 6 of them, and they can be like Battlefields flags, were each has a big area around and you need to attack them a certain amount of time, and another certain time to fix. When one is damaged, the zone corresponding have some patches of sunlight around, and assuming all the vampires are not fledglings anymore, there's no need for extra damage, just a little health drain (an burning skin effect) when a vampire is under the light. maybe the match can start with half smoke stacks destroyed and half standing, the more smoke stacks there are, the more spawn rate and a bit of a buff vampires have.

I understand your concern with the evacuation mssion. Specially consider that we all know that there's no possible way to make AI that would not make them be suicidal, and given that Razielim will have it as a piece of cake. But maybe if they go in carriages and they implement intricate paths and underground zones.

The fledglings thing, your trying to think like you're already playing, again, there are a lot of ways to implement the mode. Also, there aremany online games with that mode, the whol "what do I do stay here and back my mates to defend themelves and our units/buildings from enemy attacks, or should I go attack the enmy base", Oh no, there wasn't anyone guarding the base, but by the time I arrived, they have me surrounded, f****ng campers!" You win some and you lose some ... everyone attacks from the back.

The Cathedral Bell Tower: You sound like you think the level is a tunel leading to the front door where everyine guardin has a character with flamethrower (there's no such a thing as "switching to flamethrower"). There will bve many ways to aproach, and vampires will always find a hole in the defense. And Razielims are always an overwhelming advantage.

Anansios
2nd Oct 2013, 22:19
good lord M8 hes trying, try not to castrate him. lol

THANK YOU! I did feel rather assaulted. :)


Smoke stacks.

--- So me as a low lvl vampire if i hit a patch of sunlight i die, GG - time to quit. Imagine the rage on new players that will play this game casual ...and where is the vampire advantage ? ---

It is an arena battle game. Characters do respawn... If you walked straight into a Bright patch of sunlight... you might deserve it :P

These are setting components that could be independent game modes, or options that could be turned on and off.
Example:
1 vampire advantage could be selected and 1 human advantage could be selected from a list of modes/components before a match begins. (a comparable example is like Halo rocket launcher mode. I actually don't own Halo, but it can be a little fun)
Personally, I prefer fleshed out modes, but both are not exclusive.

Details can be worked out later, but to encourage you.

Details: Patches of sunlight serve as obstacles, not as end game scenarios. Humans can 'hide' in patches of light as temporary defenses. Vampires could attempt to repair smoke stacks to remove those defenses/obstacles.
Human dilemma: Bask and fight in the light or ensure vampires cannot repair the Smoke stacks.

It gets tricky when one chooses a corresponding vampire advantage.

Many options are available. Smoke stacks could create darkness that obscures line of sight, as it did in SR1. Humans are ranged and need distance as their advantage. Vampires could reduce their advantage with more smoke stacks actively functioning.

Why is it tricky? How many smoke stacks should be active at match's beginning? How many patches of sunlight? Remember in SR1 there were patches of sunlight that you could kill younger vampires with.


Evacuation

--So humans will be in open field, and vampires can attack from everywhere, this one is kinda simple, all vampires can stack, make a tactic and attack whenever they like and when they see a good oportunity while humans are waiting ...---

Please look again: Human Hunters are escorting NPC humans across the map to safe havens.
There is no mention of an open field. The video never showed any open fields. Stacked up vampires make good targets for rapid fire, ranged, humans, anyway... Alchemists are said to have grenade launchers and have shown their flame throwers. You can cluster if you like, but I would prefer a different tactic...

Vampires can heal by feeding on players, so NPC humans can be additional tasty snacks. Humans can gain some kind of bonus for safely escorting human NPC's to safety. I have not seen how or if there is a scoring system. Perhaps you gain points for kills rather than just a number of kills, I don't know. Humans could gain major points for safely escorting a human. It's just a basis for them to work with.

If the devs had the time, they could make specialized human NPC's to escort. Priest that heal, sorcerers that can cast barriers or what-not. Little buffs that can activate.


Fledglings

Now i wonder what do i do first, protect my nest or go and backstab a human in the other side of the map ? Hmmm, and my victim is still alive ? A human reached my nest, i still have a human alive and i have to protect my nest also ?
But i want to fly to the human side, backstab one of them and fly away in a safe place ... oh noes, i can't find any humans cauze they are killing my nest/victims.

?... I have no idea of what you mean here... Are you upset that you have a number of choices available to you? That is the point: you decide how you would like to play. There are consequences to your actions, and as such, you must strategize.

I thought it could be fun... I like complex scenarios, from time to time.

Dead/disabled/unconscious, basically incapacitated.... It's up to developers to manifest the exact mechanic...


Cathedral Bell Tower

---This is the same with Evacuation, but humans just need to guard a static building, so lets all switch to flamethrower and wait :) oh my oh my ... so much fun for vampires.---


If you played SR1, the Silent Cathedral was Massive. It could be a small building defended from outside. A large building defended from outside.
A small building with specific areas that must be defended.
A large building with multiple barricades that vampires must break down (Heck, even like the call of duty mod or something completely original.)

The humans could be forced to recover components to complete the bell tower mechanism.

One idea I like is how many kills can you get before humans activate the tower? Maybe it kills all vampires game over. Maybe it wipes out all vampires and breaks (cooldown) or has shoddy construction (budget cuts :P) and needs to be recompleted before activation.

The game is in development, there is no reason to think so small about it. I gave a bunch of permutations, rather than one fleshed out Game Mode, but I want to inspire creativity.


Pillar Guardians (bear with me).

This one is a little to complicated, every team will stack on the guardian and he will use that skill while is protected.

Who said the ability would be game changing? If you played Defiance, there were minor attack abilities that Kain could activate. One let him teleport around a bit, striking his foes.

The point is variation on the good mechanics that they are developing/ have developed.



I don't want to be mean, but i am sure you can expand these ideas.
You actually were kind of mean... but I threw some more ideas out there.

---
I almost forgot. There is no 'capture the flag', but how about capture the 'human baby' :P

ZeroFernir
3rd Oct 2013, 00:29
I would LOOOVE to see a King of the Hill around the pillars, or Janos's coffing... that would be so coooool *-*
Also, I would love seeing something like a only vampires game mode: a real clash of clans, as it was said that vampires did, once.

VVZigel
9th Oct 2013, 04:35
This thread would be a continuation of http://forums.eu.square-enix.com/showthread.php?t=7381
I just thought that this might actually be a good idea to create a separate thread for this topic... Feel free to contribute.

IMO - there isn't much to be said or added on that matter, despite that this mode seems to me like some kind of good old "Protect the V.I.P.". That being said, map objectives would end up like this:

Humans
- Storm the vampire citadel.
- Assault the Patriarch.

Vampires
- Protect the Patriarch.

Knowing this - we can already imagine what kind of map it might end up looking like, however, there are a few questionalbe points.

1)Q: How do we handle Dumah? Is it a PC or an NPC?
A: IMO - he should be a PC, but in order to balance things out and prevent that monstrosity from roaming the map since the very beginning - he should be spawned only after all previous human objectives have been completed and their current one is to assault the Patriarch.
E.g.:
Objective 1 - Lower the bridge. - Done.
Objective 2 - Open the gates. - Done.
Objective 3 - Assault the Patriarch. - In progress. - this event should trigger Dumah to spawn. Until then - he should not be present on the map at all and have access to his room blocked from eveyone, including vampires.

2)Q: How would a player be chosen to be Dumah?
A: Pure random. Lets give everyone a chance! As soon as humans recieve their final task - one of the vampire players is respawned as Dumah.

3)Q: How powerful should Dumah be?
A: IMO - crazy powerful, like insta-kill attacks and such. He is a bloody Patriarch after all, you don't joke around such creatures! As we can remember from SR1 - he was a hulknig brute, thus we obviously see what kind of strengths and weaknesses he might possess, implying that humans should be using hit-and-run tactics, which is absolutely logical and fits their current ranged-only agenda. In order to balance things around lesser vampires - once final objective is revealed - they should have treir respawn timers incresed. By how much? - No idea just yet. But long enough to give humans an opportunity to fight Dumah.

4)Q: How is Dumah going be killed? In SR1 he was impaled with 3 spikes.
A: IMO - that particular moment shouldn't be precise. Not only humans would have to fight a mostrous creature protected by minions, but also somehow impale it on 3 spikes?.. Please... I think that giving Dumah an abundant amount of HP should be more than enough. The process of impalement should be purely cosmetical - like some kind of outro when humans win the match. Because if you remember - Dumah was impaled on his throne and I really doubt it was done voluntarily.

5)Q: What are the conditions for humans to lose the match?
A: Simple! - We put a timer here. Once their time runs out - humans lose.



P.s. Well that is it... I hope this ends up being helpful. I am very sorry for any mistakes and overall simplicity of my speech - English ain't my native language, but I try to do my best.

Cradlis
9th Oct 2013, 07:39
I. Love. It.

I love everything on that post, it would be awesome to play such battles though it would be hard to balance with the strength of Dumah. I would love to play that and see the Dumahim city once again :D

Another map idea : the capture of the silenced cathedral by the Zephonim clan. There we have a scenario where it's up to the vampires to launch an assault. It could be some thing like "Capture the points". Zephonim must enter the cathedral, capture and close the pipes before it becomes to dangerous and lethal for them. Once the last pipe is closed, the vampires win. If the Zephonim cannot close the last pipe in time, then a wave of sounds is launched and kills every vampire around (or maybe in all of Nosgoth?). Zephon himself could be a part of the assault, but to avoid unbalanced fight, he should only be present for the attack on the last (huge) pipe. Just an idea here.

But back to the matter. I see one tiny problem with the objectives. If Dumah appears at the moment when the bridge is lowered, then it would be hard for the humans to even enter in the city if Dumah himself is there to defend the entrance. No, just make him appear if the humans manage to make it to the throne room doors. It will give them some edge and respect the arrogance of Dumah : "These dogs can't make it to me, my clan is the most powerfull, my childrens can destroy them without me!". Then, when he sees the humans are bashing the doors of his room, he would be like "Oh ****!" and starts to react :)

ZeroFernir
9th Oct 2013, 11:33
This thread would be a continuation of http://forums.eu.square-enix.com/showthread.php?t=7381
I just thought that this might actually be a good idea to create a separate thread for this topic... Feel free to contribute.

IMO - there isn't much to be said or added on that matter, despite that this mode seems to me like some kind of good old "Protect the V.I.P.". That being said, map objectives would end up like this:

Humans
- Storm the vampire citadel.
- Assault the Patriarch.

Vampires
- Protect the Patriarch.

Knowing this - we can already imagine what kind of map it might end up looking like, however, there are a few questionalbe points.

1)Q: How do we handle Dumah? Is it a PC or an NPC?
A: IMO - he should be a PC, but in order to balance things out and prevent that monstrosity from roaming the map since the very beginning - he should be spawned only after all previous human objectives have been completed and their current one is to assault the Patriarch.
E.g.:
Objective 1 - Lower the bridge. - Done.
Objective 2 - Open the gates. - Done.
Objective 3 - Assault the Patriarch. - In progress. - this event should trigger Dumah to spawn. Until then - he should not be present on the map at all and have access to his room blocked from eveyone, including vampires.

2)Q: How would a player be chosen to be Dumah?
A: Pure random. Lets give everyone a chance! As soon as humans recieve their final task - one of the vampire players is respawned as Dumah.

3)Q: How powerful should Dumah be?
A: IMO - crazy powerful, like insta-kill attacks and such. He is a bloody Patriarch after all, you don't joke around such creatures! As we can remember from SR1 - he was a hulknig brute, thus we obviously see what kind of strengths and weaknesses he might possess, implying that humans should be using hit-and-run tactics, which is absolutely logical and fits their current ranged-only agenda. In order to balance things around lesser vampires - once final objective is revealed - they should have treir respawn timers incresed. By how much? - No idea just yet. But long enough to give humans an opportunity to fight Dumah.

4)Q: How is Dumah going be killed? In SR1 he was impaled with 3 spikes.
A: IMO - that particular moment shouldn't be precise. Not only humans would have to fight a mostrous creature protected by minions, but also somehow impale it on 3 spikes?.. Please... I think that giving Dumah an abundant amount of HP should be more than enough. The process of impalement should be purely cosmetical - like some kind of outro when humans win the match. Because if you remember - Dumah was impaled on his throne and I really doubt it was done voluntarily.

5)Q: What are the conditions for humans to lose the match?
A: Simple! - We put a timer here. Once their time runs out - humans lose.



P.s. Well that is it... I hope this ends up being helpful. I am very sorry for any mistakes and overall simplicity of my speech - English ain't my native language, but I try to do my best.

The idea is cool... would the humans have infinite instant spawn?


I. Love. It.

I love everything on that post, it would be awesome to play such battles though it would be hard to balance with the strength of Dumah. I would love to play that and see the Dumahim city once again :D

Another map idea : the capture of the silenced cathedral by the Zephonim clan. There we have a scenario where it's up to the vampires to launch an assault. It could be some thing like "Capture the points". Zephonim must enter the cathedral, capture and close the pipes before it becomes to dangerous and lethal for them. Once the last pipe is closed, the vampires win. If the Zephonim cannot close the last pipe in time, then a wave of sounds is launched and kills every vampire around (or maybe in all of Nosgoth?). Zephon himself could be a part of the assault, but to avoid unbalanced fight, he should only be present for the attack on the last (huge) pipe. Just an idea here.

But back to the matter. I see one tiny problem with the objectives. If Dumah appears at the moment when the bridge is lowered, then it would be hard for the humans to even enter in the city if Dumah himself is there to defend the entrance. No, just make him appear if the humans manage to make it to the throne room doors. It will give them some edge and respect the arrogance of Dumah : "These dogs can't make it to me, my clan is the most powerfull, my childrens can destroy them without me!". Then, when he sees the humans are bashing the doors of his room, he would be like "Oh ****!" and starts to react :)

As the devs said, each mach will be 2 rounds: in one a team play as vampires, and in the other, as humans. So it could be a part of the same match, the "dumah's last stand" and the "Silent conquering" (that name turns out to be strange =P)

MasterShuriko
9th Oct 2013, 11:50
This idea is awesome!

ZeroFernir
9th Oct 2013, 12:07
But I think that maybe dumahim shouldn't respawn after humans come into dumah's throne room.

MasterShuriko
9th Oct 2013, 12:37
But I think that maybe dumahim shouldn't respawn after humans come into dumah's throne room.

Hmm minins + players defending Dumah aswell as a Player controlled Dumah against the poor feeble humans might be a bit too much for them.....BUT FUN FOR THE VAMPS xD

ZeroFernir
9th Oct 2013, 12:41
Hmm minins + players defending Dumah aswell as a Player controlled Dumah against the poor feeble humans might be a bit too much for them.....BUT FUN FOR THE VAMPS xD

The humans would die to easely. maybe a inta-spawn for humans and delayed spawn for minions.

MasterShuriko
9th Oct 2013, 12:56
The humans would die to easely. maybe a inta-spawn for humans and delayed spawn for minions.

A delayd spawn for the minions for Vampires could be a good feature to add aslong as there isnt a door a shield or similar that blocks the pathway to the battle.
Ie SWTOR have forcefields blocking the spawn on some maps, even if you spawn and tries to run out the forcefield closes and stops you and the others from coming out and lets the enemies have well enough time to plant bombs and proceed to the next area.

ZeroFernir
9th Oct 2013, 13:03
A delayd spawn for the minions for Vampires could be a good feature to add aslong as there isnt a door a shield or similar that blocks the pathway to the battle.
Ie SWTOR have forcefields blocking the spawn on some maps, even if you spawn and tries to run out the forcefield closes and stops you and the others from coming out and lets the enemies have well enough time to plant bombs and proceed to the next area.

I actually think that it is a strange idea. I prefer the spawn to be in waves and delayed for the vampires.

MasterShuriko
9th Oct 2013, 13:05
I actually think that it is a strange idea. I prefer the spawn to be in waves and delayed for the vampires.

I wrote to badly. I meant that I hope that we dont get a wall that opens and closes aswell as a delayed timer so that we get stuck behind 2 things that prevent us from going back in the battle.

But I´m for the delayed part =)

ZeroFernir
9th Oct 2013, 13:15
I wrote to badly. I meant that I hope that we dont get a wall that opens and closes aswell as a delayed timer so that we get stuck behind 2 things that prevent us from going back in the battle.

But I´m for the delayed part =)

Surelly... without it, the humans could not reach Dumah, in tesis, as the game is meat to be balanced.

Anansios
9th Oct 2013, 14:17
Burnout.
- Each team will need 3-5 players to burn the enemy "base".
- Random "base" spawned in different locations, so it doesn't become boring after a while.
- Vampires must eat some NPC's so they can make dmg to human "base", this ability is granted only for a short period of time, Humans must burn the vampires "base", but they'r combat skills are limited when they pick up the "burning kit". Also the "burning kit" will dissapear after it's used on enemy base.
- The game is decided by time( 15-20 mins - team with most kills win ), dmg to the enemy base or when the base is destroyed.
In case the enemy base is destroyed, winner team takes more points, matches decided by time give les points.
The random locations would be a great way to keep things interesting. I hate playing a map that someone has completely memorized. A bit of variability can keep things lively.


Buff 'N Kill
- Random NPC's spawned in diff locations of the map. 3-4 ( if it's 8 vs 8 or 10 vs 10 ) players in every team must kill them, once a player kills a NPC takes a buff that makes him stronger. Each buff has an ability - HP, Power, Healing, Speed, etc.
- Players that kills one NPC becomes marked for the other team, so they would know that he is buffed.
- When the 3-4 players from one team manage to take all the buffs they become invincible = instant win.
- This mode can also be dediced by time if no team manages to take all the buffs.

Maybe instead of being completely invincible, they can have a temporary amount of invincibility? That would leave the losing team running scared until the 'completion buff' wears off and they are given a chance.
Truth be told, I also really like the instant win option. It makes for a clear cut goal besides wracking up kill counts.


Fog 'N Fire
- In this mode there is only pure hunt, the problem is the whole map is covered in fog.
- Humans will have a "torch" skill, wich can they throw and see on some radius ( 10-15 m from where the torch has landed )
- Vampires will have an "eye in the dark" skill, when they use it the can see on a radius of 20-30 m around them, this is just because they are melee.
Also when humans use the "torch" skill a red point will blink on the minimap of vampires for 2-3 seconds.
Also there will be some torches on walls that can be lighted by both teams, they will make light for 30-60 seconds in a radius of 5-8 m.

I really like your torch and wall sconce ideas. The torch making a ping/blip on the map is a cool idea. The devs could determine the duration cool down of the torches so that each player can have at most two active torches (one fresh and one sputtering out). Strategy like that could mislead vampires. Or if limited to one torch, humans would have to work in closer coordination. If they wanted to be tricky. Ex: work in pairs and use one torch as a decoy the other to target enemies, ect.

Fun stuff!

LordNekronom
9th Oct 2013, 14:33
How about a sort of Capture the Flag mode

Ofc it won't be a flag, but it could be some ancient crystal or artifact that could be used to power a weapon or cast a warding spell that could secure victory for the faction but it needs 6 crystals/artifacts to fully charge, each base starts with 3 already found put into place, and you have to retrieve the enemy crystal/artifact to get 6, this is sort of a capture the flag as you can have 1 crystal in your base and them somehow retrieve the other 5 and win, in CTF it's a set number of flag captures, this mode I suggest is much more fluid and dynamic.

Also due to the nature of the crystal/artifact you can't carry more than one at a time as it's unstable energies must be contained and can't be anywhere near each other without the right incantation or container to keep them controled, they would cause some big explosion :D

Umbralim
9th Oct 2013, 14:43
Field of Spikes
- a chance to perform some good old fashioned impalement (you know you want to :P)
Vampire hunters have to not only kill vampires but than put their bodies on spikes like in the Sarafan fields in BO1 or SE2, one player sets up the spike which takes a small amount of time while the other players defend him, the vampires have to kill the humans and free their brothers from impalement doing the same thing (as simply smashing the pikes would leave more than a bit inside them)
the freed vampires become npcs and fight along side vampires but cannot be revived again in order to prevent, a major imbalance but can be re-killed and impaled again by pursuing humans. winner is decided by who has more impaled or freed by end of match.

ZeroFernir
9th Oct 2013, 15:13
As I posted in other thread:

Clan's Matter

Vampires x vampires, FFA (or teams for each clan). This remember us of the razielim extermination =P

Vampmaster
9th Oct 2013, 15:19
No offence, but some of the names for these (not any persons in particular) modes sound really cheesy.

ZeroFernir
9th Oct 2013, 15:25
No offence, but some of the names for these (not any persons in particular) modes sound really cheesy.

Like mine's =P but the idea is what matters.

Gryregaest
9th Oct 2013, 15:26
I like the basis of the idea, but the problem I see is that when Raziel reaches Dumah's fortress in SR1, the skeletal remains of the Dumahim scattered about look like the remaining live ones. Which would imply that the siege happened some time after the time period we're working with in Nosgoth.

ZeroFernir
9th Oct 2013, 16:04
I like the basis of the idea, but the problem I see is that when Raziel reaches Dumah's fortress in SR1, the skeletal remains of the Dumahim scattered about look like the remaining live ones. Which would imply that the siege happened some time after the time period we're working with in Nosgoth.

Or vampire corpses just resist better trough time, as the living ones.

Raziel1228
9th Oct 2013, 16:39
This thread would be a continuation of http://forums.eu.square-enix.com/showthread.php?t=7381
I just thought that this might actually be a good idea to create a separate thread for this topic... Feel free to contribute.

IMO - there isn't much to be said or added on that matter, despite that this mode seems to me like some kind of good old "Protect the V.I.P.". That being said, map objectives would end up like this:

Humans
- Storm the vampire citadel.
- Assault the Patriarch.

Vampires
- Protect the Patriarch.

Knowing this - we can already imagine what kind of map it might end up looking like, however, there are a few questionalbe points.

1)Q: How do we handle Dumah? Is it a PC or an NPC?
A: IMO - he should be a PC, but in order to balance things out and prevent that monstrosity from roaming the map since the very beginning - he should be spawned only after all previous human objectives have been completed and their current one is to assault the Patriarch.
E.g.:
Objective 1 - Lower the bridge. - Done.
Objective 2 - Open the gates. - Done.
Objective 3 - Assault the Patriarch. - In progress. - this event should trigger Dumah to spawn. Until then - he should not be present on the map at all and have access to his room blocked from eveyone, including vampires.

2)Q: How would a player be chosen to be Dumah?
A: Pure random. Lets give everyone a chance! As soon as humans recieve their final task - one of the vampire players is respawned as Dumah.

3)Q: How powerful should Dumah be?
A: IMO - crazy powerful, like insta-kill attacks and such. He is a bloody Patriarch after all, you don't joke around such creatures! As we can remember from SR1 - he was a hulknig brute, thus we obviously see what kind of strengths and weaknesses he might possess, implying that humans should be using hit-and-run tactics, which is absolutely logical and fits their current ranged-only agenda. In order to balance things around lesser vampires - once final objective is revealed - they should have treir respawn timers incresed. By how much? - No idea just yet. But long enough to give humans an opportunity to fight Dumah.

4)Q: How is Dumah going be killed? In SR1 he was impaled with 3 spikes.
A: IMO - that particular moment shouldn't be precise. Not only humans would have to fight a mostrous creature protected by minions, but also somehow impale it on 3 spikes?.. Please... I think that giving Dumah an abundant amount of HP should be more than enough. The process of impalement should be purely cosmetical - like some kind of outro when humans win the match. Because if you remember - Dumah was impaled on his throne and I really doubt it was done voluntarily.

5)Q: What are the conditions for humans to lose the match?
A: Simple! - We put a timer here. Once their time runs out - humans lose.



P.s. Well that is it... I hope this ends up being helpful. I am very sorry for any mistakes and overall simplicity of my speech - English ain't my native language, but I try to do my best.

Yes.

ZeroFernir
9th Oct 2013, 17:06
Yes.

woah, that was... significant.

Raziel1228
9th Oct 2013, 17:12
woah, that was... significant.

Nothing needed to be said. His idea is nearly flawless."once final objective is revealed - they should have treir respawn timers incresed. By how much? - No idea just yet." I say increase the spawn timers by either 10 seconds or double. His idea really has no flaws at all. Its like a scenario map which is pretty good. I don't expect this to happen by launch but when they release some dlc then this should be put in there with it.

ZeroFernir
9th Oct 2013, 17:16
Nothing needed to be said. His idea is nearly flawless."once final objective is revealed - they should have treir respawn timers incresed. By how much? - No idea just yet." I say increase the spawn timers by either 10 seconds or double. His idea really has no flaws at all. Its like a scenario map which is pretty good. I don't expect this to happen by launch but when they release some dlc then this should be put in there with it.

Maybe we create some more of this ideas and they lauch a DLC with MISSION kind of match. This way we could be a introduction to the lore, that would be linked with the other games.

Raziel1228
9th Oct 2013, 17:21
Maybe we create some more of this ideas and they lauch a DLC with MISSION kind of match. This way we could be a introduction to the lore, that would be linked with the other games.

If you mean like another event in the SR1 era then yes I agree completely. How about when the vampires attack the Silenced Cathedral? Its an objective hat they have to stop it from ringing and it then belongs to clan Zephonium afterwards.

Anansios
9th Oct 2013, 17:24
How about a sort of Capture the Flag mode

Ofc it won't be a flag, but it could be some ancient crystal or artifact that could be used to power a weapon or cast a warding spell that could secure victory for the faction but it needs 6 crystals/artifacts to fully charge, each base starts with 3 already found put into place, and you have to retrieve the enemy crystal/artifact to get 6, this is sort of a capture the flag as you can have 1 crystal in your base and them somehow retrieve the other 5 and win, in CTF it's a set number of flag captures, this mode I suggest is much more fluid and dynamic.

Also due to the nature of the crystal/artifact you can't carry more than one at a time as it's unstable energies must be contained and can't be anywhere near each other without the right incantation or container to keep them controled, they would cause some big explosion :D

Since this is SR1, it would make a lot of sense to have usage of the Glyphs. Perhaps it could be like a "Capture the Glyph"
All your rules apply, but gaining the items could give access to glyph spells. Players could choose one of their team's captured glyphs as an active ability.

I love the idea of an explosion :D Perhaps the glyph could dangerous until it's power has been sealed, THEN it can be captured.

Human's lack vampire weaknesses, but sound waves could stun, Sunlight could blind, water could knock down, or slow down (chilled :P), ect. Powerful glyphs could have much longer cool downs.

Eh? Eh??? :)

ZeroFernir
9th Oct 2013, 17:38
Since this is SR1, it would make a lot of sense to have usage of the Glyphs. Perhaps it could be like a "Capture the Glyph"
All your rules apply, but gaining the items could give access to glyph spells. Players could choose one of their team's captured glyphs as an active ability.

I love the idea of an explosion :D Perhaps the glyph could dangerous until it's power has been sealed, THEN it can be captured.

Human's lack vampire weaknesses, but sound waves could stun, Sunlight could blind, water could knock down, or slow down (chilled :P), ect. Powerful glyphs could have much longer cool downs.

Eh? Eh??? :)

That was an awesome idea, iven though I think personally I wouldn't lika a CTF game mode on Nosgoth.

ZeroFernir
9th Oct 2013, 17:39
If you mean like another event in the SR1 era then yes I agree completely. How about when the vampires attack the Silenced Cathedral? Its an objective hat they have to stop it from ringing and it then belongs to clan Zephonium afterwards.

Someone has already suggested it in this same topic =P

EDIT: it was Cradlis.

Raziel1228
9th Oct 2013, 17:58
Well theres the raid on Dumah, vamps invading the Silenced Cathedral and I was thinking of one where the humans attack the smoke stacks trying to stop the sky from being covered.

Vallass
9th Oct 2013, 17:58
Fog 'N Fire
- In this mode there is only pure hunt, the problem is the whole map is covered in fog.
- Humans will have a "torch" skill, wich can they throw and see on some radius ( 10-15 m from where the torch has landed )
- Vampires will have an "eye in the dark" skill, when they use it the can see on a radius of 20-30 m around them, this is just because they are melee.
Also when humans use the "torch" skill a red point will blink on the minimap of vampires for 2-3 seconds.
Also there will be some torches on walls that can be lighted by both teams, they will make light for 30-60 seconds in a radius of 5-8 m.

I LOVE this idea. It's a blind race to the finish. Although I think it'd be interesting if the...you didn't say what they were hunting. Haha, oh well, details. Anyway, it'd be awesome if it changed position every so many minutes. A stationary objective is a bit dull to me. And what is it they're supposed to do with it? Capture, kill, etc.? It should be a timed capture or kill too, so that the other team can try and stop you from succeeding. The movement timer should still be counting down too. I both love and hate when I'm JUST about to win and I run out of time. Maybe the team who was capturing gets a radius burst of where the objective is now. No pinpoint flare, just an area burst. A decent sized area, but I'd assume it's a rather large map for this. A small map would basically mean 2-3 minute games. And as much as I like short games, that's a little ridiculous.

ZeroFernir
9th Oct 2013, 18:04
Well theres the raid on Dumah, vamps invading the Silenced Cathedral and I was thinking of one where the humans attack the smoke stacks trying to stop the sky from being covered.

Really? I found this idea rather silly... the opposite of it I liked: the thorches idea, in a map full of fog... It was suggested somewhere around...

EDIT: it was in this topic =P http://forums.eu.square-enix.com/showthread.php?t=7299&page=2&p=69665#post69665

ZeroFernir
9th Oct 2013, 18:07
I LOVE this idea. It's a blind race to the finish. Although I think it'd be interesting if the...you didn't say what they were hunting. Haha, oh well, details. Anyway, it'd be awesome if it changed position every so many minutes. A stationary objective is a bit dull to me. And what is it they're supposed to do with it? Capture, kill, etc.? It should be a timed capture or kill too, so that the other team can try and stop you from succeeding. The movement timer should still be counting down too. I both love and hate when I'm JUST about to win and I run out of time. Maybe the team who was capturing gets a radius burst of where the objective is now. No pinpoint flare, just an area burst. A decent sized area, but I'd assume it's a rather large map for this. A small map would basically mean 2-3 minute games. And as much as I like short games, that's a little ridiculous.

As I understood, the humans hunt was for vampires, and vice-versa...

Vallass
9th Oct 2013, 18:13
As I understood, the humans hunt was for vampires, and vice-versa...

OH, I thought they were hunting for something else in the fog, I misunderstood. A classic hunt sounds good, but I think it'd be a great Capture the Glyph idea too.

Raziel1228
9th Oct 2013, 18:13
Really? I found this idea rather silly... the opposite of it I liked: the thorches idea, in a map full of fog... It was suggested somewhere around...

EDIT: it was in this topic =P http://forums.eu.square-enix.com/showthread.php?t=7299&page=2&p=69665#post69665

I was thinking of objective game mods. When I meant smoke stacks I meant the factory that produces the smoke. The humans would attack it to stop producing the smoke. The fog idea sounds like a nice game mode though I will admit.

Anansios
9th Oct 2013, 18:25
This would be excellent DLC that could add lore-based scenarios.

The vampires corpses in his citadel were of the same kind as the SR1 Dumahim. It likely happened after Nosgoth's period. On a positive note, we don't know how long it took Dumah himself to reach his SR1 form... it could be inappropriate to have him fully evolved, while his clan is not, as that would require other clan leaders to be similarly evolved(well the older lieutenants at least...)
That aside :)




Q's :4 & 5
Ignoring how Dumah was found would be a bit of a backhand...

Dumah was not simply sitting on his throne, his hands were cuffed to the throne itself. He was also impaled. Likely in that order, but humans, in our world, actually staked dead bodies to prevent them from rising as vampires. Still, I'd guess that they stunned him, bound him to the chair and finished him with the massive spikes.


That creates opportunity. If we follow your plan of objectives,

Bridge, Gate, Patriarch,
The vampires (players) could be almost too late. Remember the arrogance Raziel spoke of? Dumah likely wasn't guarded. It makes for a great horror factor to find your Patriarch in real danger of dying. It would bring great pride to the humans to see that their strike force had reached Dumah while the other objectives of storming the fortress were ongoing.

Dumah could be encountered:
1. One spike in him, bleeding him.
2. Have x limbs bound to the chair
3. Already be weakening from battle.

Or some combination of the three.


Q: 3.
A weakened Dumah would still be a powerful foe. He could be on the brink of being stunned, but have deadly attacks at his disposal.

Perhaps the humans used Moebius's staff? It could have been destroyed in this particular battle. Perhaps by Dumah as he is bound to the chair? A mini cinematic could be good for that: Weakened Dumah is bound to the chair. One vampire manages to shatter the staff. Human reinforcements (players) rush in. Vampire reinforcements rush after (players).


1.
Objectives for the final portion: Humans must impale Dumah with 3 large spikes.
Vampires must kill humans and free Dumah.


888888888888
Having these battles on multiple maps/locations would also make it possible for other players to enter a battle later, when and if players drop out during a separate battle.


Q:2
Tough one. Dumah is a tough choice... NPC would be easiest, but Being Dumah... well... let me put my thinking cap on...

If we use what I stated above... Dumah being freed could allow for a player to take control of him.
Random, or most kills gets first shot. Players could loose control of him after Dumah recieves enough damage (he becomes stunned and player respawns as dumahim).
A lottery system could work: More kills means more chances to be chosen as Dumah. (even people who suck can get a decent chance :P).


Big question: Can vampires win?

Options:
1. Dumah could get weaker as the battle rages.
2. Killing all vampires gives humans a bit of time to directly assault Dumah, unperturbed. (assuming vampires don't respawn automatically, but en mass ((the dev's described this a a potential mechanic))) (It would be nice if Vampires could revive allies, at least one's that weren't immolated).


It could be decided that humans will win, but points can still be tallied for # of kills and rescues, ect.
-----
Unlockables:

After enough plays or achievements:

Vampires other than Dumahim could be selected to participate in 'advanced matches'. (a reward after being a loyal player).
Perhaps another tier could have Traitorous vampires (preferably non-Dumahim) assisting the humans.
When opportunity knocks...(Dumah DID cast Raziel in the Abyss...)

MasterShuriko
9th Oct 2013, 18:26
It is good with variation of maps I agree on that. It just that I´m afraid of people rushing such maps just to earn the "win-points"

Anansios
9th Oct 2013, 18:29
OH, I thought they were hunting for something else in the fog, I misunderstood. A classic hunt sounds good, but I think it'd be a great Capture the Glyph idea too.

That sounds pretty fun. Fog Could be stand alone or combined with other modes. I didn't think of those other possibilities :)

Raziel1228
9th Oct 2013, 18:36
I agree with everything except with the unlockables. Also I say that whoever plays Dumah should be the Vampire with the highest points. Nothing sucks worse than having the worst player on your team being the objective. Its like having the worst guy on Counter strike hold the bomb. But to make it fair I suggest the higher points the more chance for you to get Dumah.

ZeroFernir
9th Oct 2013, 18:40
This would be excellent DLC that could add lore-based scenarios.

The vampires corpses in his citadel were of the same kind as the SR1 Dumahim. It likely happened after Nosgoth's period. On a positive note, we don't know how long it took Dumah himself to reach his SR1 form... it could be inappropriate to have him fully evolved, while his clan is not, as that would require other clan leaders to be similarly evolved(well the older lieutenants at least...)
That aside :)




Q's :4 & 5
Ignoring how Dumah was found would be a bit of a backhand...

Dumah was not simply sitting on his throne, his hands were cuffed to the throne itself. He was also impaled. Likely in that order, but humans, in our world, actually staked dead bodies to prevent them from rising as vampires. Still, I'd guess that they stunned him, bound him to the chair and finished him with the massive spikes.


That creates opportunity. If we follow your plan of objectives,

Bridge, Gate, Patriarch,
The vampires (players) could be almost too late. Remember the arrogance Raziel spoke of? Dumah likely wasn't guarded. It makes for a great horror factor to find your Patriarch in real danger of dying. It would bring great pride to the humans to see that their strike force had reached Dumah while the other objectives of storming the fortress were ongoing.

Dumah could be encountered:
1. One spike in him, bleeding him.
2. Have x limbs bound to the chair
3. Already be weakening from battle.

Or some combination of the three.


Q: 3.
A weakened Dumah would still be a powerful foe. He could be on the brink of being stunned, but have deadly attacks at his disposal.

Perhaps the humans used Moebius's staff? It could have been destroyed in this particular battle. Perhaps by Dumah as he is bound to the chair? A mini cinematic could be good for that: Weakened Dumah is bound to the chair. One vampire manages to shatter the staff. Human reinforcements (players) rush in. Vampire reinforcements rush after (players).


1.
Objectives for the final portion: Humans must impale Dumah with 3 large spikes.
Vampires must kill humans and free Dumah.


888888888888
Having these battles on multiple maps/locations would also make it possible for other players to enter a battle later, when and if players drop out during a separate battle.


Q:2
Tough one. Dumah is a tough choice... NPC would be easiest, but Being Dumah... well... let me put my thinking cap on...

If we use what I stated above... Dumah being freed could allow for a player to take control of him.
Random, or most kills gets first shot. Players could loose control of him after Dumah recieves enough damage (he becomes stunned and player respawns as dumahim).
A lottery system could work: More kills means more chances to be chosen as Dumah. (even people who suck can get a decent chance :P).


Big question: Can vampires win?

Options:
1. Dumah could get weaker as the battle rages.
2. Killing all vampires gives humans a bit of time to directly assault Dumah, unperturbed. (assuming vampires don't respawn automatically, but en mass ((the dev's described this a a potential mechanic))) (It would be nice if Vampires could revive allies, at least one's that weren't immolated).


It could be decided that humans will win, but points can still be tallied for # of kills and rescues, ect.
-----
Unlockables:

After enough plays or achievements:

Vampires other than Dumahim could be selected to participate in 'advanced matches'. (a reward after being a loyal player).
Perhaps another tier could have Traitorous vampires (preferably non-Dumahim) assisting the humans.
When opportunity knocks...(Dumah DID cast Raziel in the Abyss...)

Or, as most games bring it to us, as Dumah's life reaches 0, we see an animation of he becoming stunned, bounded to the throne and then impaled. That would be really better than what you suggested, IMO. And PLEASE, no traitor vampires, yes?

Raziel1228
9th Oct 2013, 18:45
Or, as most games bring it to us, as Dumah's life reaches 0, we see an animation of he becoming stunned, bounded to the throne and then impaled. That would be really better than what you suggested, IMO. And PLEASE, no traitor vampires, yes?

I absolutely agree. Otherwise it would be hard to balance and all. Sure what you said is more intense and climatic but thats a problem for the devs and a problem for us in turn. I believe Dumah should be a player-controlled special character that can passively regen health at a slow rate. He should look like an uber beefed up Turielem vampire with armour since we all remember how he looked like in SR1. I'm sure Dumah is cocky but the vampires will have to come to his aid it only makes sense. So it would be Dumah and vamps vs humans in the last part of the scenario. However the vamps should have an increased spawn timer to make it possible for the humans to win. And if Dumah's health reaches zero than an cinematic or an animation of him being cuffed and impaled would be sufficient and awesome. Much better like this in my opinion.

ZeroFernir
9th Oct 2013, 18:51
I absolutely agree. Otherwise it would be hard to balance and all. Sure what you said is more intense and climatic but thats a problem for the devs and a problem for us in turn. I believe Dumah should be a player-controlled special character that can passively regen health at a slow rate. He should look like an uber beefed up Turielem vampire with armour since we all remember how he looked like in SR1. I'm sure Dumah is cocky but the vampires will have to come to his aid it only makes sense. So it would be Dumah and vamps vs humans in the last part of the scenario. However the vamps should have an increased spawn timer to make it possible for the humans to win. And if Dumah's health reaches zero than an cinematic or an animation of him being cuffed and impaled would be sufficient and awesome. Much better like this in my opinion.

I think that there sould be some ways to kill vampires other that hitting them: scenario kills, maybe. This way it would be easyer to humans (they really need this help).

ZeroFernir
9th Oct 2013, 18:54
That sounds pretty fun. Fog Could be stand alone or combined with other modes. I didn't think of those other possibilities :)

Fog is an AMAZING add-on for the game. There should be a little in every scenario, I think, just for the fluffy ^^

Anansios
9th Oct 2013, 19:00
The whole traitor thing was just an idea to retain players. There are plenty of reasons not to, (range vs melee). It could function as a "Free Mode" that is available to people as an unlockable. I personally prefer human vs vampire, but if you want a successful game, you must be able to appeal to others outside your own particular preferences.

I wouldn't agree with mixing "Free Mode" and "Normal Mode". I just think it is important to give people options.


As far as the "0 life", that's fine. I was looking for something with objectives, rather than a straightforward kill, but that is a very simple solution. I miss boss battles that require mini-objectives. Brute force can be fun too.

MasterShuriko
9th Oct 2013, 19:07
If theres Fog in-game will the Vamps be able to stealth in it like Kain did in Blood Omen 2?

ZeroFernir
9th Oct 2013, 19:07
The whole traitor thing was just an idea to retain players. There are plenty of reasons not to, (range vs melee). It could function as a "Free Mode" that is available to people as an unlockable. I personally prefer human vs vampire, but if you want a successful game, you must be able to appeal to others outside your own particular preferences.

I wouldn't agree with mixing "Free Mode" and "Normal Mode". I just think it is important to give people options.


As far as the "0 life", that's fine. I was looking for something with objectives, rather than a straightforward kill, but that is a very simple solution. I miss boss battles that require mini-objectives. Brute force can be fun too.

But you do not have to do something that don't have any sense at all! vampires would never fight alongside humans.

And that is actually the funniest way for THIS battle, and the one that makes more sense... I agree, I miss them too, but why would Dumah be already bounded? That is nonsense =P

ZeroFernir
9th Oct 2013, 19:08
If theres Fog in-game will the Vamps be able to stealth in it like Kain did in Blood Omen 2?

Maybe =P I think Zephonim would.

MasterShuriko
9th Oct 2013, 19:09
Maybe =P I think Zephonim would.

Ooh! Rubbing my cla...erh I mean hands.

Anansios
9th Oct 2013, 19:16
Ooh! Rubbing my cla...erh I mean hands.
Lol!

I do wish a Squar-Enix dev would mention if perhaps some of these ideas are well beyond the scope of their game, or at least mildly worth looking into, for them. Particularly NPC for use as objectives. That would eliminate 1/2 the suggestions here...
Sad as that could be, we could at least focus on suggestions that could be implemented.

ZeroFernir
9th Oct 2013, 19:38
Lol!

I do wish a Squar-Enix dev would mention if perhaps some of these ideas are well beyond the scope of their game, or at least mildly worth looking into, for them. Particularly NPC for use as objectives. That would eliminate 1/2 the suggestions here...
Sad as that could be, we could at least focus on suggestions that could be implemented.

Everything could be implemented. making an AI would be hard (I think they didn't had to until now) but it COULD be done. But I agree that dev team should take a look and tell us wich are the ideas we most probably will see in the game.

LordNekronom
9th Oct 2013, 19:53
Since this is SR1, it would make a lot of sense to have usage of the Glyphs. Perhaps it could be like a "Capture the Glyph"
All your rules apply, but gaining the items could give access to glyph spells. Players could choose one of their team's captured glyphs as an active ability.

I love the idea of an explosion :D Perhaps the glyph could dangerous until it's power has been sealed, THEN it can be captured.

Human's lack vampire weaknesses, but sound waves could stun, Sunlight could blind, water could knock down, or slow down (chilled :P), ect. Powerful glyphs could have much longer cool downs.

Eh? Eh??? :)

I like where this is going :D

Vampmaster
9th Oct 2013, 20:39
Oh! What if the statues in the places where you get the glyphs in SR1 are representations of the vampire who sealed it away or the human who used it to win a great battle? There could be some backstory there!

ZeroFernir
9th Oct 2013, 21:52
Oh! What if the statues in the places where you get the glyphs in SR1 are representations of the vampire who sealed it away or the human who used it to win a great battle? There could be some backstory there!

Now THAT was a GREAT idea! That would be fantastic if we've got some of those lore parts =D I would love it *-* Imagine if they do a character like this for the best players? *---*

VVZigel
10th Oct 2013, 05:33
Oh-hoh! I didn't expect this idea to be that successful, thank you folks! :)
Too bad I can't take whole credit for it as I am pretty sure that I have seen it somewhere... I just can't remember where!
Anyway - I am happy everything turned out so well) I hope mods will notice our little brain-storm here.

Vampmaster
10th Oct 2013, 09:24
Oh-hoh! I didn't expect this idea to be that successful, thank you folks! :)
Too bad I can't take whole credit for it as I am pretty sure that I have seen it somewhere... I just can't remember where!
Anyway - I am happy everything turned out so well) I hope mods will notice our little brain-storm here.

What do you think about variations on this such as "Help Zephon get to his lair" and "Protect the pupating elders"?

The Zephon would be sort of an invasion where the Zephonim take over the cathedral and the humans have to stop them. If Zephon gets killed the vampires lose.

The Pupating elders one would have the oldest members of your clan (I'm thinking Razielim, since they no longer have their leader), all in the state of change and you have to protect them until they emerge. Once that happens, they are even more devolved than the normal playable ones and would decimate the humans quickly.

ZeroFernir
10th Oct 2013, 11:59
What do you think about variations on this such as "Help Zephon get to his lair" and "Protect the pupating elders"?

The Zephon would be sort of an invasion where the Zephonim take over the cathedral and the humans have to stop them. If Zephon gets killed the vampires lose.

The Pupating elders one would have the oldest members of your clan (I'm thinking Razielim, since they no longer have their leader), all in the state of change and you have to protect them until they emerge. Once that happens, they are even more devolved than the normal playable ones and would decimate the humans quickly.

The Zephon idea looks like a changed version of the one presented before, but I like the idea of having Zephon... I think him as the greatest of the 6 =P

and the Pupating Elders is really cool too =P

Vallass
10th Oct 2013, 15:38
If theres Fog in-game will the Vamps be able to stealth in it like Kain did in Blood Omen 2?

I wouldn't see why not, or maybe give humans a smaller line of sight against vamps in fog, that might be an easier way to go.

ZeroFernir
10th Oct 2013, 15:41
I wouldn't see why not, or maybe give humans a smaller line of sight against vamps in fog, that might be an easier way to go.

Then humans should have something too, to balance it.

Vallass
10th Oct 2013, 16:15
Then humans should have something too, to balance it.

Of course, I just can't imagine what it would be. Maybe have a cooldown, turn area of fog into mist ability, which would be a slow dot for vamps in said area. Well, I guess it would make sense for alchemists, but might not work for other humans.

ZeroFernir
10th Oct 2013, 16:31
Of course, I just can't imagine what it would be. Maybe have a cooldown, turn area of fog into mist ability, which would be a slow dot for vamps in said area. Well, I guess it would make sense for alchemists, but might not work for other humans.

If so, a simple game would start becoming too complicated.

Vallass
10th Oct 2013, 17:21
If so, a simple game would start becoming too complicated.

It wouldn't be a launch implemented game-type, a later add-in would be nice. Besides, eventually we'll WANT something more complicated to keep it interesting. There'll always be a new way to play your character, but eventually you want a different play-style altogether. I like a good challenge, and I'd like something harder than "hardcore mode" where you can't heal, have limited ammo, etc.

ZeroFernir
11th Oct 2013, 00:26
It wouldn't be a launch implemented game-type, a later add-in would be nice. Besides, eventually we'll WANT something more complicated to keep it interesting. There'll always be a new way to play your character, but eventually you want a different play-style altogether. I like a good challenge, and I'd like something harder than "hardcore mode" where you can't heal, have limited ammo, etc.

So you want Nosgoth to become something like Halo 4 (with different game modes every month)? I liked the idea =P

LordNekronom
11th Oct 2013, 19:16
So you want Nosgoth to become something like Halo 4 (with different game modes every month)? I liked the idea =P

as long as they are well thought out and implemented, quality over quantity :D

Gryregaest
12th Oct 2013, 01:50
Or vampire corpses just resist better trough time, as the living ones.

I'm sorry, I genuinely have no idea what you're trying to communicate with this post or how it relates to what I said.

ZeroFernir
12th Oct 2013, 02:24
I'm sorry, I genuinely have no idea what you're trying to communicate with this post or how it relates to what I said.

You said it would be recent thing, as we see corpses of dumahim not decomposed at all in Dumah's throne room. They could only resist through time, not decomposing as human corpses, or taking centuries to decompose.

Gryregaest
12th Oct 2013, 02:37
I wasn't talking about their decomposing. I was stating that the skeletal remains strewn around the fortress shared the same level of mutation as the living ones during SR1. This would imply that the sacking of Dumah's fortress happened quite some time after the time period we're working with, since the Dumahim in Nosgoth are relatively human looking, not the hunched over blue creatures who apparently occupied the fortress when it was taken.

Vallass
12th Oct 2013, 03:34
So you want Nosgoth to become something like Halo 4 (with different game modes every month)? I liked the idea =P

Oh, I though you were against it. My bad, sadly plain text doesn't convey meaning too well. As to the Halo 4 idea, I wouldn't know, never played Halo 4 online. Essentially though, yea that'd be cool. Although I'd like the modes to stay after each month, not be cycled out to never be seen again, i.e. Halo 3...my favorite game modes added to random...who does that I say!?


as long as they are well thought out and implemented, quality over quantity :D

Quality or death!

ZeroFernir
12th Oct 2013, 20:26
Oh, I though you were against it. My bad, sadly plain text doesn't convey meaning too well. As to the Halo 4 idea, I wouldn't know, never played Halo 4 online. Essentially though, yea that'd be cool. Although I'd like the modes to stay after each month, not be cycled out to never be seen again, i.e. Halo 3...my favorite game modes added to random...who does that I say!?
Yeah, Halo 4 is just like that. I think it is cool, it makes you know 2~3 games not only your favourite.




Quality or death!

Agreed!

ZeroFernir
12th Oct 2013, 20:41
I wasn't talking about their decomposing. I was stating that the skeletal remains strewn around the fortress shared the same level of mutation as the living ones during SR1. This would imply that the sacking of Dumah's fortress happened quite some time after the time period we're working with, since the Dumahim in Nosgoth are relatively human looking, not the hunched over blue creatures who apparently occupied the fortress when it was taken.

maybe they didn't died in the attack.

Vampmaster
12th Oct 2013, 20:52
Maybe the devs just didn't want to waste time working out the specific time in which he/they were killed and coming up with different character models for that stage in their evolution?

Plus we'll probably see more devolved versions as DLC.

Gryregaest
13th Oct 2013, 04:32
Maybe they didn't want to, but the fact remains that those are the vampires they put in. And from a storytelling perspective, the whole point of putting skeletal remains in an area that is specifically explained to have been sacked, is to help illustrate that fact.

There may or may not be information that becomes available later which makes it work. But for now, without a canon explanation that expands upon this, justifications to force the event into this era are more or less just rationalizations.

The_Hylden
14th Oct 2013, 05:18
The developers are going off of the premise, as I've later discovered and has been stated within the Q&A video, that the time between Raziel's execution and his resurrection as a wraith is close to a millennium. This game is taking place a few centuries after Raziel was abyssed. There's plenty of centuries left for the eventual rampage and overthrow of Dumah's empire. It's probably not going to happen within these early campaigns, but perhaps these events will lay the groundwork that will show where that inevitable outcome happened from. And, who knows? Perhaps this Nosgoth game will eventually update and spring us forward a century, or so, to where it does happen, eventually. Plenty of time for many possibilities.

Reidbynature
14th Oct 2013, 19:39
Well if there's going to be any sort of depiction of Dumah's last stand then the Dumahim at least should be devolved by then. Those were clearly devolved Dumahim corpses strewn throughout the Dumahim stronghold. I'd hope that if they do show Dumah's defeat in some form that it doesn't just go against SR1 so blatantly.

Also if Nosgoth is to go that far in the timeline then I would like to see them add the devolved versions of the various vampires clans as new classes or even variants on the classes already established somewhat. Same with humans. I would like to see how they would have changed generations down the line fighting vampires for control of Nosgoth.

killerwhaleman
15th Oct 2013, 14:23
i like the idea of a co-op mode similar to a beat em up where you and your team advance through say the avernus cathedral or sarafan stronghold

Phroster
15th Oct 2013, 19:29
Allot of very nice ideas in here for some new game modes, I think just team DM wil get a little boring after a while.
There will probably be more maps to play on, but it would be awesome if they used some stuff from the old LOK games.
Like a ruined piller map or other locations from the old LOK games.

ZeroFernir
15th Oct 2013, 20:20
Allot of very nice ideas in here for some new game modes, I think just team DM wil get a little boring after a while.
There will probably be more maps to play on, but it would be awesome if they used some stuff from the old LOK games.
Like a ruined piller map or other locations from the old LOK games.

I think they will, but maybe not the most iconic of them all (even because the Pillars and other things are simply inacessive to humans)

Norrman
16th Oct 2013, 12:18
I don't know if there is going to be any other game modes then those witch are there now on the alpha?

But I just came up with one that could be fun? maybe? It's named "Resources" mode/game and i works that way that there are randomly spawning Civilian on the map. that both Vampires and Human's need's for their survival if you think of it like Vampires need's cattle for blood and Human's need's soldiers.

So when the Civilian/Cattle spawn both team's need to capture the civilian and drag/carry/escort him to the extraction point witch would be different every time so you can't just wait for the other team to get there and then kill them all if you know what I mean. or it would always be on the same place that you have to escort the Civilian/Cattle

and then it would be like a time limit 20 min and the team that first get's 5-10 Civilians/Cattle wins

I came up with this idea when I noticed that you could drag bodies with vampires, so why not drag your cattle back to the "fram"

Tkristensen
16th Oct 2013, 16:06
I support this. Im afraid that the 4vs4 "farming" will very quick be boring within months, without "objectivs".

Sianan
16th Oct 2013, 16:24
I think it would be better if only one team has to gather civilians at a time, otherwise it might discourage combat (i.e. both teams just farming civilians and ignoring each other).

OneViolence
16th Oct 2013, 20:13
How about a gamemode kinda like King of the hill, there would be a gate at one end of the map, humans have to open the gate to let the humans run out, while the vampires are trying to prevent/destroy the gate so they're trapped, something like 20min/first team to secure objectives

Psyonix_Corey
16th Oct 2013, 21:16
We have an objective-based Domination mode we'll be activating during Beta.

Other game modes are being discussed and worked on. It's a priority.

ParadoxicalOmen
17th Oct 2013, 00:42
Some ideas were good, like a co-op mode perhaps...
Others didn't seem to fit to well with LoK, like "capture the flag" or "king of the hill". I don't want Nosgoth becoming a generic shooter. The game needs to make sense...like this:


Oh! What if the statues in the places where you get the glyphs in SR1 are representations of the vampire who sealed it away or the human who used it to win a great battle? There could be some backstory there!
Cool idea btw


The pillar guardians idea wouldn't do, as the pillars are already destroyed at this time. It wouldn't make much sense.

I REALLY liked the 'vampire vs vampire' idea. Perhaps a game mode set in before the war started, while the humans are still mustering their forces.

I would really enjoy a mode that would include the clan leaders. But it's hard to think of something that makes sense, and would be fair for both sides.
Sorry, but i didn't like the "escorting" idea very much. :P

TenebraeAeterna
17th Oct 2013, 03:24
Inquisitor:

Several Vampires have been taken prisoner, sealed away deep within the dungeons of a vast Cathedral. Inquisitors enact sinister torment upon these bound predators, seeking to break their will and strip away vital information that could spell victory against the parasites of humanity.

Vampires have a designated amount of time to storm this Cathedral and save, or kill, the vampire prisoners deep within the Cathedral's dungeons. Humans are set to defend, and within their own home turf...are more than ready for the vampiric invasion force.

Might have been suggested before, I don't have the time to read through right yet. Still, wanted to toss an opinion out there. :)

Norrman
17th Oct 2013, 19:15
that actually sound fun Oneviolence! thing that would make it more fun if it would have like first defend/destroy gate and then if you succeed the next stage is to kill all civilian human's inside och a castle or something like that. Just like they have done in chivalry. let's hope this is one of the mode's they will make.

Psyonix_Corey
17th Oct 2013, 21:58
For some context from our side, we've tried a lot of modes during development. One key learning out of modes like the one you're speaking of is that while they sound super awesome, in practice as a vampire it's not very fun beating on a static object like a gate.

You want to be killing other players, not zerging a HP bar on a wall. Sure there's strategy in wiping out the humans before assaulting the gate, etc. but in practice it draws out some odd behaviors in players.

The best modes always seem to encourage different ways to PvP around the mode's constraints. In TF2's Gold Rush / Minecart mode, your job is to escort a cart and fight off attackers as it progresses, for instance.

Another consideration to keep in mind is that maps are very expensive to develop. While we want to add lots of alternate modes, it doesn't make a ton of sense to develop custom maps for specific modes versus finding fun alternate ways to play in existing (and future) content compatible with our core modes, like TDM and Domination. This doesn't mean we can't retrofit modifications into existing maps for modes, for instance we could block off parts of Valeholm for a specific mode that requires it.

Regarding civilian drag/escort/etc:
We really like the idea of drag-to-capture type modes, as it's a fun take on a "flag" or objective that fits with our mechanics.

That said, it's very easy for "escort missions" to turn frustrating or enraging, and more characters on screen will really hurt performance for users on lower end machines, so it's not very simple to do.

SkippyMcDoogle
18th Oct 2013, 18:58
Daybreak/Nightfall

First off, implement some sort of day/night cycle. This is probably early enough in the timeline that the smoke hasn't nullified sunlight so much. During daytime, the vamps take more damage or are hindered in some other way. During night, the humans line of sight is reduced or something. Each side has a significant disadvantage depending on if it's day/night is my point.

To go along with the day/night cycle, each team has a base that gives them some sort of defensible advantage; traps, better ground to aim from, glyphs to activate, etc.

I think you would have a really interesting mix of "Oh crap, get back to base!" and "It's our time to shine, go go go!"

Umbralim
18th Oct 2013, 21:58
Daybreak/Nightfall

First off, implement some sort of day/night cycle. This is probably early enough in the timeline that the smoke hasn't nullified sunlight so much. During daytime, the vamps take more damage or are hindered in some other way. During night, the humans line of sight is reduced or something. Each side has a significant disadvantage depending on if it's day/night is my point.

To go along with the day/night cycle, each team has a base that gives them some sort of defensible advantage; traps, better ground to aim from, glyphs to activate, etc.

I think you would have a really interesting mix of "Oh crap, get back to base!" and "It's our time to shine, go go go!"

I like this idea for certain maps, the vampires base should also have traps or things to help give the defending vampires an advantage inside it.

I know the developers say they wanna keep things balanced but sometimes an uphill battle can be fun. who doesn't like to siege a castle

SkippyMcDoogle
19th Oct 2013, 03:07
My thinking was that the bases would level the playing field.

You're faction is weaker somehow during day/night, but the bases give you access to things that will help you stay on even footing.

Say humans can't see as well at night so their sight line is lessened, maybe their base has some sort of slow trap or barricade that will give them time to kill a vamp once they're in view. The vamps can still use the lessened sight to their advantage to sneak around and get the drop on humans, but the humans aren't crippled.

On the flip side; with daytime making the vamps more susceptible to damage, maybe their base has glyphs that offer a temporary shield or a "feeding room" where they can feed and regain health rapidly.

Each side would have weaknesses, but the bases would let them level it out if used well.

ZeroFernir
19th Oct 2013, 21:41
Daybreak/Nightfall

First off, implement some sort of day/night cycle. This is probably early enough in the timeline that the smoke hasn't nullified sunlight so much. During daytime, the vamps take more damage or are hindered in some other way. During night, the humans line of sight is reduced or something. Each side has a significant disadvantage depending on if it's day/night is my point.

To go along with the day/night cycle, each team has a base that gives them some sort of defensible advantage; traps, better ground to aim from, glyphs to activate, etc.

I think you would have a really interesting mix of "Oh crap, get back to base!" and "It's our time to shine, go go go!"

Awesome! "It's our time to shine!" LOL!

moonunitiv
20th Oct 2013, 00:43
these are pretty great ideas, keep up the creative thinking(or not so creative?)

LordNekronom
21st Oct 2013, 11:50
That is assuming every vampire is a fledgeling :D and thus susceptible to sunlight, adults aren't hindered by this weakness.

ZeroFernir
22nd Oct 2013, 11:24
That is assuming every vampire is a fledgeling :D and thus susceptible to sunlight, adults aren't hindered by this weakness.

Yeah, we saw Kain Dancing in the Sun! =P kkkkkk

Norrman
22nd Oct 2013, 15:24
Ok can I in any way get to see a map overview? Layout? My English isn't the best :)
Cause I would like to see or experiment with different game modes how you can do the map's witch are available now. and if I can post them here later? my ideas.

And I just thought of a game mode "kill secured" now in this TDM as a human you can take out one vampire far away with scout etc... but with kill secured you'll have to execute to actually get a kill with both races. I think this could be a fun feature also. I will make the human's to move more around the map and not just camp in one corner and wait for the vampires to attack.

sry for late response, have had a lot to do in school :)

Zagan-
22nd Oct 2013, 22:44
I know that Nosgoth is still a new game and some new game modes will come, but I think a competitive game mode is a must right now in pretty much any game.

Nosgoth is a great game and deathmatch modes are fine, but it doesn't offer much strategy or teamplay, and let's be fair everyone likes a more complex game mode not the old boring kill what is in front of you style.

A more competitive game mode could be attack and defend, kinda like in Counterstrike where you have to plant a bomb/defuse it. There are 2 capture points scattered around the map and the attacking team has to capture 1 point in order to win the round. It takes a player 5 seconds to start it, and they need to prevent the opposing team to recapture the point in the next 45 seconds. The defending team has to defend both points, or recapture the point that was taken. Only 1 point can be captured, or else too difficult to defend. The Vampires are really mobile and make the perfect attacking team, while the humans are more defense oriented.

Another more casual game mode could be the captain mode, pretty much an advanced team deathmatch mode. A random player will be the "captain" and starts with increased hit-points, maybe 4x times more. The objective is to eliminate the opposing captain. If the captain dies then the other team will receive 1 point and a new captain will be randomly selected.

This would add more depth to the game, and that is always fun :)

Zagan-
23rd Oct 2013, 23:53
Captain mode

Pretty much an advanced team deathmatch mode. A random player will be the "captain" and starts with increased hit-points, maybe 4 times more. The objective is to eliminate the opposing captain. If the captain dies then the other team will receive 1 point and a new captain will be randomly selected.


Attack and defend

There are 2 capture points scattered around the map and the attacking team has to capture 1 point in order to win the round. It takes a player 5 seconds to start it, and they need to prevent the opposing team to recapture the point in the next 45 seconds. The defending team has to defend both points, or recapture the point that was taken. Only 1 point can be captured, or else too difficult to defend. The Vampires are really mobile and make the perfect attacking team, while the humans are more defense oriented.

ZeroFernir
24th Oct 2013, 11:00
Captain mode

Pretty much an advanced team deathmatch mode. A random player will be the "captain" and starts with increased hit-points, maybe 4 times more. The objective is to eliminate the opposing captain. If the captain dies then the other team will receive 1 point and a new captain will be randomly selected.


Attack and defend

There are 2 pillars on the map and the attacking team has to corrupt 1 pillar in order to win the round (capture one, they will turn dark). It takes a player 5 seconds to start the corruption, after that the curruption will continue automatically for 45 seconds. The defending team has to defend the 2 pillars, or restore the corrupted one in the next 45 seconds (capture them back). Only one pillar can be corrupted, or else too difficult to defend. The Vampires are really mobile and make the perfect attacking team, while the humans are more defense oriented.

Captain looks nice, but Attack and Defend is a little bit nonsense, since the Pillars are all in the same place.

Zagan-
24th Oct 2013, 12:55
Captain looks nice, but Attack and Defend is a little bit nonsense, since the Pillars are all in the same place.

They are obviously not in the same place, that would be just bad and make it super easy to defend.

The_Hylden
24th Oct 2013, 14:02
He means the actual Pillars of Legacy of Kain. They are in one single location. They're pretty much the most iconic symbol, monument, location, and solitary point in the world of Nosgoth (not the game, the world that exists). Moving them around maps would be terrible and I don't think the devs would wish upon themselves the backlash that would come from that :p

Zagan-
24th Oct 2013, 15:21
Yeah I know, but I would not really mind having them in 2 different locations. This was just an example you can replace the "Pillars" with pretty much everything, it was just the first thing that came into my mind. It can even be just a normal capture point...

lordbane2110
24th Oct 2013, 16:38
Tbh you could set it around the pillars, as remember who big they really are, however they wouldn't be standing due to what happened at the end of Defiance, but that too could have possiblies, have to weave in and out of the wreckage capturing points around where the pillars have fallen

or is it far enough along in the timeline for the sanctuary of the clans to have been formed, in which case the pillars ruins are part of kains throne with the rest of the rooms around it, which would also be good for ambush style tactics

The_Hylden
24th Oct 2013, 16:54
In this game's time period, the remnant of the Pillars is Kain's throne room:

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v105/pgson/intro11_zpsd6213960.jpg

The Sanctuary of the Clans is built around them and no battles should be raging within this fortress.

lordbane2110
24th Oct 2013, 16:57
Why not, that might be an interest battlefield, the humans being brazen enough to take the fight to the vampires stronghold, after we all we don't actually know if this actually happened

who knows it might have.

The_Hylden
24th Oct 2013, 17:41
This would be like their end game. Like in Terminator 5, taking the fight directly to Skynet's facility (which was one of many, I think). While an attempt to do so I wouldn't be against, say, after the game has been running for a long, long while and you've built up to such an epic battle, this would be what you're leading up to, not what you start out with. It's still amazing enough that the humans were able to defeat Dumah in his stronghold. Now, we haven't even gotten anywhere near to seeing how that happened, if we'll see such an event in Nosgoth. This would be far, far larger a task. If the humans try such an all-or-nothing assault, it's going to happen when it's all-or-nothing on the line, when this is it -- we either win this thing and drive the vampires out, or we lose. If we lose, we are dead; we are all dead! -- to paraphrase T5, heh :p

And I wouldn't want to see, unless it's just a non-ingame-cannon thing, some throwaway capture the flag segment within the Sanctuary.

lordbane2110
29th Oct 2013, 14:20
Nah I didn't mean it as a capture the flag style gameplay more like assault from UT2004, you have objectives that could change as the game carries on for example

Human Side

1. Breach the Fortress Walls

You literally have to protect human villagers that are assembling catapults or siege equipment to break down a wall segment or gate

2. Take (unknown room for x amount of time)

while fightning off the vampires, your building barricades and defenses to slowly work your way through the fortress, while under constant attack

3. Square off against the clans in the throne room

Leading up to a massive all or nothing fight, to which the spoils go to the victors

and for the vampire side

1. defend the battlements and grounds from the human forces

Explainitory

2. Keep the Humans from gaining a foothold

3. Remove them at all costs from the sanctuary

It could be timed as well, so if the human players do really well in an obj, then they gain a bonus to the completion of the next one, ie if they have manged to keep a lot of the villagers alive, then the barricades that need assembling to gain a foothold are built quicker

and vice versa for the vampires, if there's very few villagers as the vampires have been particulary brutal in there extermination of them, then they gain a bonus to defense

and you could have a similar map for the humans defending the silenced cathedral, with the vampires trying to take over (which we know happens as it becomes the lair of the Zephonim)

kain67raz34
23rd Nov 2013, 00:39
Well if there's going to be any sort of depiction of Dumah's last stand then the Dumahim at least should be devolved by then. Those were clearly devolved Dumahim corpses strewn throughout the Dumahim stronghold. I'd hope that if they do show Dumah's defeat in some form that it doesn't just go against SR1 so blatantly.

Also if Nosgoth is to go that far in the timeline then I would like to see them add the devolved versions of the various vampires clans as new classes or even variants on the classes already established somewhat. Same with humans. I would like to see how they would have changed generations down the line fighting vampires for control of Nosgoth.

ikr they seem so prevalent on not wanting LOK vampires so don't expect devolved versions of the liutenents since they don't even show up in the game I mean how can you have 3 of the clans but not the other 3 with no turel or dumah or rahab or any of them.

shayan08
23rd Nov 2013, 10:44
Cool stuff .. but i dont think so irs much... tell me more about that...

ParadoxicalOmen
23rd Nov 2013, 14:29
This thread would be a continuation of http://forums.eu.square-enix.com/showthread.php?t=7381
I just thought that this might actually be a good idea to create a separate thread for this topic... Feel free to contribute.

IMO - there isn't much to be said or added on that matter, despite that this mode seems to me like some kind of good old "Protect the V.I.P.". That being said, map objectives would end up like this:

Humans
- Storm the vampire citadel.
- Assault the Patriarch.

Vampires
- Protect the Patriarch.

Knowing this - we can already imagine what kind of map it might end up looking like, however, there are a few questionalbe points.

1)Q: How do we handle Dumah? Is it a PC or an NPC?
A: IMO - he should be a PC, but in order to balance things out and prevent that monstrosity from roaming the map since the very beginning - he should be spawned only after all previous human objectives have been completed and their current one is to assault the Patriarch.
E.g.:
Objective 1 - Lower the bridge. - Done.
Objective 2 - Open the gates. - Done.
Objective 3 - Assault the Patriarch. - In progress. - this event should trigger Dumah to spawn. Until then - he should not be present on the map at all and have access to his room blocked from eveyone, including vampires.

2)Q: How would a player be chosen to be Dumah?
A: Pure random. Lets give everyone a chance! As soon as humans recieve their final task - one of the vampire players is respawned as Dumah.

3)Q: How powerful should Dumah be?
A: IMO - crazy powerful, like insta-kill attacks and such. He is a bloody Patriarch after all, you don't joke around such creatures! As we can remember from SR1 - he was a hulknig brute, thus we obviously see what kind of strengths and weaknesses he might possess, implying that humans should be using hit-and-run tactics, which is absolutely logical and fits their current ranged-only agenda. In order to balance things around lesser vampires - once final objective is revealed - they should have treir respawn timers incresed. By how much? - No idea just yet. But long enough to give humans an opportunity to fight Dumah.

4)Q: How is Dumah going be killed? In SR1 he was impaled with 3 spikes.
A: IMO - that particular moment shouldn't be precise. Not only humans would have to fight a mostrous creature protected by minions, but also somehow impale it on 3 spikes?.. Please... I think that giving Dumah an abundant amount of HP should be more than enough. The process of impalement should be purely cosmetical - like some kind of outro when humans win the match. Because if you remember - Dumah was impaled on his throne and I really doubt it was done voluntarily.

5)Q: What are the conditions for humans to lose the match?
A: Simple! - We put a timer here. Once their time runs out - humans lose.



P.s. Well that is it... I hope this ends up being helpful. I am very sorry for any mistakes and overall simplicity of my speech - English ain't my native language, but I try to do my best.

Glad to see people liked it :)
Good continuation of the idea, very nice.

I like what you said...and have a few things to add:

Number 1, i just think that Dumah MUST BE PLAYABLE!! That's the whole motive why it would be cool :D

Number 2, agreed.

Number 3, agreed.

Number 4, i like the idea :)
I thought of perhaps something like each time you get Dumah's health low, he enters a stunned state, and then you can impale him (Leaving the possibility of the other vampires to "save" him, stopping him from being impaled). And after 3 successful impalement's Humans win (Dumah is very weaken and so possible for him to be bound to his throne).

Number 5, well we know for a fact that Dumah does lose at some point. So, i originally thought of a mode which was a survival...BUT...
I must say that i very much prefer this one, a possibility to "win" for the vampire gives it an incentive :)
But the vampires cant "win" technically, as it would contradict the story. Maybe it could be something like:
-If humans win, it goes just as told in SR1
-If vampires win, it was just a distraction for a bigger ambush, and in the end Dumah still gets impaled.

ParadoxicalOmen
23rd Nov 2013, 14:50
Another map idea : the capture of the silenced cathedral by the Zephonim clan. There we have a scenario where it's up to the vampires to launch an assault. It could be some thing like "Capture the points". Zephonim must enter the cathedral, capture and close the pipes before it becomes to dangerous and lethal for them. Once the last pipe is closed, the vampires win. If the Zephonim cannot close the last pipe in time, then a wave of sounds is launched and kills every vampire around (or maybe in all of Nosgoth?). Zephon himself could be a part of the assault, but to avoid unbalanced fight, he should only be present for the attack on the last (huge) pipe. Just an idea here.


I REALLY like this idea!
The only problem is the same one as with "Dumah's last stand", which is the story. We know they take the cathedral, so how to justify humans "winning"?(Just as same to justify Dumah "winning"...as we know he gets impaled).

But leaving those details aside, i was thinking of maybe you already start with Zephon (instead of him entering the game later). And Zephon would act as a "Tank" helping you get across the many areas of the Cathedral.
The game would end by either:
- Zephon reaching the main pipe area, and seizing it;
- Or by the Humans Defeating Zephon. (Maybe then triggering a vampire retreat? As Zephon doesn't die at this time)

Sluagh
24th Nov 2013, 21:38
To get round the whole, "How come Dumah is staked when he should have been staked a lot later just prior to SR1's time," you could have it that either:

- A rival within his clan is pleased Dumah is staked as it allows them to take over
- A rival clan occupies the territory that Raziel enters during SR1 and just leaves Dumah tied and pinned to his chair

Maybe it could happen a bit like this...Dumah in Nosgoth era goes into a phase of pupation, hoping to come out at the end of it some kind of ultimate warrior dude (in fact he ends up pretty ugly, ugly in comparison to the Nosgoth era vampires even, except the Turelim). Whilst doing this the humans attack, drag him out of pupation and stick him to the chair. In SR1 era this explains why Dumah is so confident: "The centuries in limbo have honed my strength. Not even Kain is my equal." Of course, he doesn't really of much of an idea of what's been going on during the time he's been staked, probably just wandering around as a lost soul, or wraith in the spectral realm, where time stands still.

shayan08
28th Nov 2013, 05:05
Now i understand all the the tips and steps of this game .... now i am able to fully enjoy this game..!

Germaximus
28th Nov 2013, 18:43
Wow those are all really awesome ideas! Love em.
I would also like a Capture The Flag style game mode. =p

Sluagh
28th Nov 2013, 20:39
Like most of the ideas (except not to keen on anything to do with the pillars, save them for throne room cut-scences if anything). Just a few points though:

Smokestacks

Anything involving the smoke stacks could be great. Although I was thinking about this recently and it doesn't suit the vampires to completely block out the sun (or perhaps there's a bit of a debate about this in the Nosgoth lore). This might be getting overly technical, but to deny the humans agriculture (which is reliant on some sun) would mean some very thin, grizzly humans to farm. Unless of course:

1. They feed the humans by shipping stuff in
2. They feed them with some kind of magic

Maybe the smokestacks, and managing them is quite a complex process that the vampires don't even understand, especially now that Kain is not around and they're being led by arrogant Dumah, righteous Turel, devious, self serving Zephon, vain and slightly patchy Melchiah and fishy Rahab.

ANYWAY, to the gameplay elements, that would be really good material for some "fight in the fog (wait no smog)" scenario that was mentioned earlier. Although if the vampires had any kind of mist form that might be slightly unfair. Unless it was the task of one vamp to knock out 3-5 humans. There's definitely a lot of room for expansion here.

SILENCED CATHEDRAL

I like something involving this. However, back to lore and being a pedant (once again) the idea of a bell tower construction sounds awesome. However, if you play SR 1 and look at the insides of the building, it appears like a a kind of steam punk structure built on older ruins (all the weird wall paintings on the inside). It's a building with history, so it would be cool if the humans are building it because the location is important, for holy, tactical advantage, or preferably both, on some kind of intriguing existing structure. As a side note, wasn't it the organ the humans had built as a weapon? (The one you spend ages putting the pipes together for)

In terms of gameplay, some kind of mass co-ordinated series of skirmishes increasing in team size might make it interesting, (a small fight at Meridian docks to stop parts arriving; an ambush on the road with limited human defence; a large scale defence of the bell tower with siege aspects). This all sounds a bit ambitious at this stage, but I s'pose it's good to thrash these things out.

OTHER

Other ideas like the mass-staking operation sound good too. Would it be possible to do a blog entry on vampire physiology in Legacy of Kain (effects of sunlight, banishment from wheel of life, ways that they die) just to clarify for novices, (and pernickety, crusty veterans)? I always thought this got a bit vague in the series, for instance in Blood Omen 2 too where it got kind of sketchy.

Decimation008
4th Dec 2013, 01:33
Leader Mode (for lack of a better term)

One player from each team is selected as the leader and only gets one life. The objective is to kill the enemy leader before they kill your own leader. Each leader would have high health and do a high amount of damage.

Also, I'm not saying the leaders should be any of the main guys from the series, but more like some squad leader or something.

Anyway, that's my attempt at contributing to the forum! :D

slikjohnson
12th Dec 2013, 00:54
This is just a couple of my ideas for game modes that I think would fit Nosgoth very well.

1st- Human Hunt- This is a mode where the human team must protects a set amount of human NPC's during a timed battle. It is the vampires job to find and kill off the human NPC's while battling the hunters. Humans could be somewhat free roaming in specific areas almost like a plant the bomb kind of style, except there would be multiple humans clustered in designated areas of said map. Maybe the humans are inside some type of stronghold or house, or maybe they are just stragglers in the streets from a vampire raid on a town (the map).

2nd- Day/Night Hunters- This is a game mode that would have a night day time cycle. Since we know that vampires can't be in the sunlight, in this mode its the humans job to enter a vampire stronghold or fortress of some sort. Their objective would be to take some type of relic, item, or whatever from the vampire stronghold. This would most suitably happen during the day so that the vampires are weaker and can't enter out into direct sunlight (sunlight doesn't have to kill, but could maybe lower health over time or something, being indoors would negate this effect.) During the night the vampires are out for revenge, at their full strength and go to take back their item. The game mode would be timed and at the end of the match whoever has the item, relic or what ever wins the match (or just has the most captures.)

3rd- Circle of Nine- So this is a game mode that could be set around the pillars (I know this would make people upset for changing the physical layout of what the pillars looked like in the original games, but you know what that isn't the point.) The object would be that both teams start relatively close to one another in their own base and make their way down a some what bottle necked path way fighting their way toward the pillars (could be on opposite path what ever works best). Each team would need to grab an in game relic that represented one of the pillars and its respective power and would gain a temporary power up while holding said item. It is then that players job to make his or her way back to base and drop said item into some sort of container, the match would continue until all the items were taken from the pillars and brought back to the bases. At the end who ever has the most relics of the pillars wins. Now each item could be representative of its pillar and give some type of ability whether it be passive or active to the player who holds it. for instance if you take the time relic maybe you get the ability to shoot out some type of AOE time bubble that slows players down inside of it. Maybe the nature pillar heals a team over time or something.

JanusDominus
12th Dec 2013, 02:52
3rd- Circle of Nine- So this is a game mode that could be set around the pillars (I know this would make people upset for changing the physical layout of what the pillars looked like in the original games, but you know what that isn't the point.) The object would be that both teams start relatively close to one another in their own base and make their way down a some what bottle necked path way fighting their way toward the pillars (could be on opposite path what ever works best). Each team would need to grab an in game relic that represented one of the pillars and its respective power and would gain a temporary power up while holding said item. It is then that players job to make his or her way back to base and drop said item into some sort of container, the match would continue until all the items were taken from the pillars and brought back to the bases. At the end who ever has the most relics of the pillars wins. Now each item could be representative of its pillar and give some type of ability whether it be passive or active to the player who holds it. for instance if you take the time relic maybe you get the ability to shoot out some type of AOE time bubble that slows players down inside of it. Maybe the nature pillar heals a team over time or something.Yeah, the vampire capitol and seat of power being around the Pillars makes it a bit impossible.
2nd- Day/Night Hunters- This is a game mode that would have a night day time cycle. Since we know that vampires can't be in the sunlight, in this mode its the humans job to enter a vampire stronghold or fortress of some sort. Their objective would be to take some type of relic, item, or whatever from the vampire stronghold. This would most suitably happen during the day so that the vampires are weaker and can't enter out into direct sunlight (sunlight doesn't have to kill, but could maybe lower health over time or something, being indoors would negate this effect.) During the night the vampires are out for revenge, at their full strength and go to take back their item. The game mode would be timed and at the end of the match whoever has the item, relic or what ever wins the match (or just has the most captures.)Smokestacks cover up the sun so vampires roam freely during the day.
1st- Human Hunt- This is a mode where the human team must protects a set amount of human NPC's during a timed battle. It is the vampires job to find and kill off the human NPC's while battling the hunters. Humans could be somewhat free roaming in specific areas almost like a plant the bomb kind of style, except there would be multiple humans clustered in designated areas of said map. Maybe the humans are inside some type of stronghold or house, or maybe they are just stragglers in the streets from a vampire raid on a town (the map).That's actually an interesting idea.

Ongan-San
19th Dec 2013, 06:45
You guys do a great job at brain storming :D
This game definetly needs some game modes for 2 reasons:
1. Mindless killing gets boring pretty fast
2. Adding references to Legacy of Kain universe would be much easier with game modes

And as for my idea:
Phase 1:
-Humans try to activate Chronoplast to pursue Kain and Vampires try to stop them.
-If humans manage to activate it before time runs out, phase 2 will begin
Phase 2:
-Humans have to enter the portal to win.
-Vampires have to deactivate Chronoplast or kill all humans before they can use the portal.
-There's no respawning in phase 2.

Ygdrasel
24th Jan 2014, 09:17
So, after finding the models and maps rather...Lacking...during alpha play, I was brainstorming ways to make the game more...Well, LoK-y, in addition to the stuff already there. It doesn't look bad, but it doesn't look like Nosgoth...


First off, it'll need more maps of places from the series. Meridian, Silenced Cathedral, areas reminiscent of various clan territories...Maybe one akin to the Turelim territory that was cut out of Soul Reaver with the smokestacks and such...A watery level ala Rahab's place...Avernus, some original Blood Omen areas....Point is, there is a lot of room for possibilities here. Each clan has its territory, plus you've got a number of human bastions and locales to play with from the entire series. Would add some needed atmosphere. Class-based maps could even be a possibility.


As for classes...They're a tad "this character could be in any other game"-ish on both sides.

For the humans, maybe some details reminiscent of Sarafan or the Guardians themselves (surely Nosgoth had cults). There could even be a class based on the Glyphwrights from BO2, adds a neat little detail (and a touch of lore, if so inclined - after all, they had to get a foothold in somewhere, right?) for those who know the secret of those guys.

And the vampires could use some clan banners incorporated into their clothing to make them look more at home. Or powers more akin to what we've seen displayed in the series, Turelim with the telekinetic gift, maybe add a Zephonim class that can cling to walls and/or ceilings, Melchaim that can pop underground to deliver Graboid-esque from-below attacks...Or go outside the box and throw in a Vorador-inspired class. Who knows, maybe some of his ilk survived underground (figuratively) someplace.

Plenty of material to tap to make "Nosgoth" more...Well, Nosgoth.


Now, during my brainstorming, I arrived at the conclusion that certain iconic LoK areas just aren't suited to be entire maps, even small ones...But then I started considering game modes.

Capture The [Whatever]: A standard game mode for the genre, and a great excuse to include the pillars as a vamp base. Humans would need their own base too, maybe a simple fort or something...But it'd be a good mode and a good icon to incorporate into the game. As for what's being captured...I originally thought 'live resources'. You know, vamps collecting 'food', humans rounding up captives for intel. Obviously this creates difficulties not present with a simple flag. But, say the first guy downed in a given round is 'captured', maybe bound in some fashion (carried over-shoulder like a hogtied prisoner, perhaps), can't attack or defend himself. Humans would have to get him to their stronghold or vice versa. Offing the captor releases him, upon which time he has to escape safely back to HQ to score the point. Or, for a less complicated (but in my opinion, less interesting) option, just have the teams capturing plans or blueprints or something.

Execution: This one's technically a form of Deathmatch but more importantly, its an excuse to include that awesome abyss that Raziel got chucked into by his brothers in a map. Basically, you fight as normal but instead of the standard 'X to execute', X lifts the fallen enemy and (pressed again) tosses them. Each victim drowned/burned in the vortex adds a point to the team's score.

Control Point and/or King of the Hill: Control Point is simple. There are points scattered on the maps, capture them all, enemy on defense. In that scenario, simple strongholds would suffice. King of the Hill is a variant, where there is a single point in the center of a map that must be held until time's up (enemy on offense). Both are standard (and fun) modes for this kind of game, but KOTH would have the plus of adding another LoK icon: The Chronoplast (time chamber). Control of those things has been a strategy of wars and schemes throughout the series so it'd make sense and look nice.

Barricade: Anyone who's played Call of Duty's zombie mode or certain TF2/Minecraft modes will know the drill: Humans defend with weapons, strategic barricades, etcetera. Vamps attack with...Well, all manner of vampiric awesomeness. As for a locale...How about Avernus? Really, locale doesn't matter so much for this one, it'd just be a fun mode to try out in LoK.

ReaverBlade
24th Jan 2014, 16:33
It may be too early to suggest other game modes, but I was playing Aliens Vs Predator recently and they have an "infestation mode".

Every player begins the match as a marine. One player is selected at random to become an Alien. That Alien then has to hunt down and kill the marine players. When a marine dies, he becomes an Alien. The game ends when everyone has been killed and turned into one of the Alien hive. For the marines it is key to stick together, to have all 360 degrees covered. As an Alien, you must stick to the shadows and use the heights to your advantage. It maybe hard at first but once you kill one or two marines, the rest will fall.

I thought this would be cool with vampires converting humans.

Gugulug5000
26th Jan 2014, 21:48
I agree with what you said about the characters being somewhat generic. I just got accepted into the alpha, but haven't played it yet (hopefully will in a little over and hour!), and I agree that the classes could use some more tie-ins to the original series. Banners on the vampires sounds like a great idea to me. I got to brainstorming about potential future human classes and came up with some ideas (I like the Glyphwright idea btw):

1: Resurgent Sarafan - The Sarafan were a big part of Nosgoth's history, and though they no longer exist, it seems possible that the current humans would be inspired by their crusade against vampires, and perhaps make a new order that greatly resembles the old Sarafan order. They could use throwing knives (like the ones in Defiance) if SquareEnix wants to stick to the whole ranged humans thing, but I would like to see them using the traditional pike or swords of the Sarafan.

2: Demon Summoners - Demon summoners appeared in several of the games and could be tied into the game via Azimuth somehow. For gameplay, I would think that they can summon a demon (several varieties, but only one at a time) and the player would control the demon, but leave the summoner idle and vulnerable somewhere in the map (much like the Recon Droids in Star Wars Battlefront).

3: Sorceress/Sorcerer - Magic is common with humans in Nosgoth and they use it in most, if not all of the games, so why not include a magic user? I'm not sure how they would tie this in so as to be recognizably LoK, but they could base some of the skins off the characters in the original series (the bald ladies in SR2, the sorceresses in Moebius' army in Defiance, etc).

Another thought I had which is probably not as practical, would be to introduce different eras of playing (ie SR1 timeline of vampires vs humans, as well as another time such as vampires vs. hylden, Sarafan vs. vampires, Moebius' mob vs. vampires, etc). I realize that it would involve pretty much creating two new teams, so I wouldn't blame them for not doing it, but I think it would be cool to see some other groups too (eventually).

Vampmaster
26th Jan 2014, 22:40
2: Demon Summoners - Demon summoners appeared in several of the games and could be tied into the game via Azimuth somehow. For gameplay, I would think that they can summon a demon (several varieties, but only one at a time) and the player would control the demon, but leave the summoner idle and vulnerable somewhere in the map (much like the Recon Droids in Star Wars Battlefront).

Well, Azimuth did have a timestreaming device. I'd love to see what she got up to with that. Maybe she went to other times to collect creatures in person or maybe release summoned creatures back to their own time under her control somehow. Perhaps as vessels for the hylden.

It might be better to use her in a single player game, though. Either as an enemy for a newly raised Lt Raziel or as a reason for Kain to make a pit-stop in this game's era.

Gugulug5000
27th Jan 2014, 01:08
Well, Azimuth did have a timestreaming device. I'd love to see what she got up to with that. Maybe she went to other times to collect creatures in person or maybe release summoned creatures back to their own time under her control somehow. Perhaps as vessels for the hylden.

It might be better to use her in a single player game, though. Either as an enemy for a newly raised Lt Raziel or as a reason for Kain to make a pit-stop in this game's era.

If I'm not mistaken, she was responsible for taking Turel back in time, so what you're suggesting seems like a legitimate idea to me.

Hellseed
27th Jan 2014, 22:43
What about these Ideas for Modes?

Modes: 1v1, 2v2, 3v3 (ranked and non-ranked battles) This may help when players just want to get in a couple of quick games in before bed.

Hard Modes: 1v2, 2v3, 3v4. once the game progresses the games can be rank based 1 High ranked player versus 2 low ranked players. I know this may have flaws but I always liked being the one that has the skill to take on multiple players at once.

Scenarios: 1-8 Players can fight a set amount of NPCs and defeat a Boos NPC. Use NPCs on Players side to fill in for missing players, such as 7 players 1 NPC, 6 Players 2 NPCs, 5 players 3 NPCs, and so on. That would make it easier to cut queue times. This is another good way to introduce game lore to the game. Have cameos of characters you have to fight or help.

Monkeythumbz
27th Jan 2014, 22:53
Moving to General.

Gugulug5000
28th Jan 2014, 02:26
Just thought of something that could be helpful in making the game seem more LoK-y; have some of the vampires say "Vae Victus!" when they kill people. That would be a nice touch.

DeIYIon
28th Jan 2014, 03:54
Just thought of something that could be helpful in making the game seem more LoK-y; have some of the vampires say "Vae Victus!" when they kill people. That would be a nice touch.
I think that battle cry is best reserved for Kain in all honesty :P

However I do have a gamemode suggestion to add to the list for consideration. Perhaps someone will be able to come up with a better title but for now let's call it "Escort".
My thinking is that during this time the human's are actively trying to recapture land and with that come areas where their kin are being kept in blood farms. The gamemode is based around the idea of the humans rescuing their comrades.
It could work with 2 rounds or stages. The first being humans attack a blood farm whilst Vampires defend their precious food source and the second being the humans escorting a convoy of 'liberated', vulnerable captives across an open terrain. The vampires goal at this point would be to obviously stop them from escaping and reclaim what they see as their property.
Now whether they are escorting them to a ship, fortified location or some other kind of save-haven is up for debate , but I think this gamemode could be pretty fun as well as tying in line with the lore at this point.

Gugulug5000
28th Jan 2014, 05:13
Oh hey just thought of some new maps that I'd like to see:
1) The Sanctuary of the Clans : Seems like a no brainer and it would be nice for the humans to be able to attack a vampire location for a change. Plus it has to be "reduced to ruin" at some point in the timeline.
2) Dumah's clan territory: Just like the Sanctuary of the Clans, something goes down in Dumah's territory where the humans actually win. It would be nice to play there, though Turel's clan territory would be nice to see as well.
3) Dark Eden: I don't really know why I like this idea, but it seems like it would be cool.

GeorgeCST
28th Jan 2014, 07:44
Suggestions 2) and 3) are good, The Sanctuary of the Clans was already suggested a few times and they said it wouldn't make that much sense. Even after close to 1000 years since Raziel died and returned to the Sanctuary it was still closed and pretty much intact. That was the heart of Kain's kingdom, I'm sure humans couldn't get there.

Monkeythumbz
29th Jan 2014, 13:47
Oh hey just thought of some new maps that I'd like to see:
1) The Sanctuary of the Clans : Seems like a no brainer and it would be nice for the humans to be able to attack a vampire location for a change. Plus it has to be "reduced to ruin" at some point in the timeline.
2) Dumah's clan territory: Just like the Sanctuary of the Clans, something goes down in Dumah's territory where the humans actually win. It would be nice to play there, though Turel's clan territory would be nice to see as well.
3) Dark Eden: I don't really know why I like this idea, but it seems like it would be cool.

Good suggestions!

I'm kinda surprised nobody's mentioned Coorhagen, Willendorf, Avernus or the Silenced Cathedral, though...

Vampmaster
29th Jan 2014, 14:08
The cathedral's been mentioned several times in the threads about the Zephonim and some of the other game mode threads. I think there was an idea about escorting Zephon to his throne room. The humans could ring bells and open pipes to impede his progress.

What about the Turelim clan territory? We've been waiting to see that since SR1.

EDIT: Need to read more carefully. Turelim territory was just mentioned.

What about a ruined forge? One of the ones that Raziel never got to use in SR2.

Monkeythumbz
29th Jan 2014, 17:19
What about a ruined forge? One of the ones that Raziel never got to use in SR2.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but isn't the Reaver blade needed to access the forges in the first place?

Vampmaster
29th Jan 2014, 17:23
Correct me if I'm wrong, but isn't the Reaver blade needed to access the forges in the first place?

Not if they've been smashed up by the EG. That was the reason Amy game that Raziel had to reforge elements he already had in Defiance.

Lord_Aevum
29th Jan 2014, 17:35
She indicated that the elemental fonts had been destroyed – the basins which appeared throughout Nosgoth, not the actual sprawling forges behind the Reaver doors. The fate of those is obscure and almost totally unknown.

I'd really like to see the city of Weirstein (http://legacyofkain.wikia.com/wiki/Weirstein) make an appearance. Valeholm needs its old buddy from the cutting room floor.

Vampmaster
29th Jan 2014, 17:44
She indicated that the elemental fonts had been destroyed – the basins which appeared throughout Nosgoth, not the actual sprawling forges behind the Reaver doors. The fate of those is obscure and almost totally unknown.

OK, so I may have been exaggerating, but if he destroyed the fonts, it would make sense to destroy the remaining forges too. Besides, why should their fate remain unknown? The fate of the Razielim was unknown.

Lord_Aevum
29th Jan 2014, 17:50
Well, I never said it should. It would be lovely to have them in the game, if they're able to fit.

Vampmaster
29th Jan 2014, 17:53
I suppose Kain could have busted them open to look at the murals at some point, but that part could be explained another time. Maybe the parts of the balance emblem cut from Defiance were in there.

Gugulug5000
29th Jan 2014, 22:49
Good suggestions!

I'm kinda surprised nobody's mentioned Coorhagen, Willendorf, Avernus or the Silenced Cathedral, though...

I was just actually about to get online and put Avernus in as #4! And I did give some thought to the smaller settlements in Blood Omen (as well as the human citadel in Soul Reaver), but I figured that we already have a bunch of city type areas so more of them would be a little redundant. I also think that the necropolis that Melchiah has in his clan territory could be cool idea.

GenFeelGood
30th Jan 2014, 20:00
It is still alpha and beta is close but still a ways away, however, with the news of new game modes and the future introduction of evolution, there is strong potential with what could be. I'm not talking about introducing a new central character with the standing of Kain or Raziel in a sequel or remake of series, but a solo, possibly co-op, campaign for this game.

What if for playable characters we choose from one the clans and play them like Assassin's Creed in terms of how it jumps forward in time and we incorporate evolution into the equation, with a degree of customization of course. We could start from the time of the Razielim's return and move forward participating in these battles as we witness events unfold in this era of Nosgoth's history, changing little by little into what we would be in the time of Soul Reaver.

Sorry if your partial to the humans, but we only live for so long. Perhaps we could do a generational thing with it moving on to child, grandchild, and great grandchild with the equipment evolving with each new generation and progressing to match the vampire's evolutionary improvements.

Korevas
30th Jan 2014, 20:21
Sorry to disappoint you, but anything like that is most likely not going to happen. To manage something like that, they would have to completely change the focus this game is heading, and I very much doubt they would be willing to do that at this point.

GenFeelGood
30th Jan 2014, 20:29
Thats a shame, but I still look forward to what it will becoming and we never know what the future may hold.

TheIrtar
30th Jan 2014, 22:10
If the game is successful, I imagine they could hire an AI programmer in the future to add something like a Horde mode.

Imagine: The defensive point is Dumah. The humans are invading the Ashen City. Defend him!

BUT that would be something to be done well in the future, after Nosgoth is successful and they have some resources.

SkacikPL
31st Jan 2014, 16:51
This game is very similar in general gameplay scheme to Left 4 Dead which has a decent competitive scene running.
Possibly developers would be interested in booting Nosgoth in competitive scene, which would require throwing in some additional game modes.

Please note that those are just my personal opinions and ideas and not all gamemode ideas would really fit into competitive game type.

Elimination
Re-imagined TDM, 10 rounds in total - 5 per side. No respawns, when you're dead you need to wait for current round to end.
Team which manages to eliminate opposing 4 players wins the round.
Team which manages to win majority of the rounds wins the match.

Escape
This mode would require making longer and more "corridor" levels.
Humans start out on one edge of the map, and their task is to make it alive to the other end of it.
Task is not simple, because their path contains chokepoints, like closed gates which require time to open.
Humans do not respawn.
If at least one human makes it to the escape point - Humans win.
If all humans are wiped before reaching the escape point - Vampires win.


Now for the less comp, more fun modes:

Hunter
This mode starts with all 8 players being humans.
Initially game starts as Free For All Deathmatch, first player to score a kill becomes the hunter.
The hunter is an unique vampire (in my vision it was Raziel in his wraith form, but w/e fits current lore will do), which has more health/speed and deals more damage than average vampire.
Once hunter is chosen, all humans are friendly to each other and have to team up to take him down.
Player who manages to kill the hunter will become the new hunter.
Player who has most kills as the hunter when the time limit runs out wins the match.

Encounter
Sector control'esque mode where one random player on both teams will spawn as an unique class.
Human player has a chance to spawn as a Paladin - heavy class which unlike the rest of the humans heavily depends on melee combat.
Vampire player has a chance to spawn as a Tyrant Warlord - a buffed up version of Tyrant which can be effectively battled only by the Paladin.
Paladin himself is too heavy to be kidnapped by Sentinel or pounced by Reaver, but he still receives damage.
Tyrant Warlord is very slow but can fork out massive damage.
Paladin's task is to take TW head on and prevent him from focusing on human infantry.
Tyrand Warlord's objective is to lead vampires attack on the middle point and wreak havoc to the human forces.
Humans task is to support the paladin and hold ground of the middle point.
Vampires task is to focus on human infantry and try to hold ground of the middle point.
All maps have designated middle point which has to be captured.
Team which currently holds ground on the middle point starts gaining points every few seconds.
Once one of the teams reaches the point limit or has more points when time runs out - wins.

Thestreetuluv
31st Jan 2014, 22:07
I was just wondering if we were gonna get ranked/hardcore type game modes?

Modes that consist of

1. Picking your class and not showing it before they actually see you in combat.(i.e people can see all classes in tab menu and pick there classes accordingly)

2.Maybe a mode that will be more of a one life type of thing. big map where humans spawn in pairs(or at least spread out quite a bit) across map and vamps spawn alone. No outlines and only the small map. I don't know just trying to think of something that would work.

3. Limitations on amounts of classes used.( so you can't pick 4-5 sents or something)

4. I would also like to see like a MVP mode. Humans would have the mvp and vamps would try to kill them. Win condition could be either vamps die or mvp gets to the "safe spot" or mvp dies. If humans die but mvp doesnt maybe they have ability to spawn at certain points or something....I dont know lol

GemiiChan
1st Feb 2014, 12:07
:wave: Hello
(forgive me if there's already a thread about these things!)

First let me say that I am beyond ecstatic to be involved in the alpha phase of Nosgoth! I couldn't wait to play a game filled with the things I love most...Vampires! But onto the topics are hand...

Cosmetic Options: I see there are currently available options to change the look of your character (class) however as of now they are ALL cash shop items. Although I am quite sure this is for the progress of the alpha, I was curious as to the coming availability of more options? Will nosgoth only hold cash shop items for the cosmetics of the classes? Will there be player held ideals for cosmetics? Or has the direction of the topic already been decided?

The current ones are by far something to look forward too. however having them all as cash shop items was VERY disappointing! Suggestion: Maybe have different rewards as the cosmetics? or even certain things you have to fulfill certain criteria to obtain a specific cosmetic option? Or have it as a bonus from finishing on top of the game board or for most damage dealt in a game! There can even be monthly events with limited edition cosmetic things; which is honestly where I see the cash shop coming in, having special discounts on the new and limited edition of the items! But for the monthly events, it could be stuff like... Example: The team with the highest support kills gets a piece of a set and you need to collect so many pieces before you can claim the entire set?

This also leads me into the customization of the classes.

Customization: This to me wasnt that bad. I didnt like however that all the classes were gender locked!! I think you can reach a broader range of players by allowing them to choose their colors, sex, and basic weapons set. The way the weapons and perks are set up is wonderful! I am also curious about the shops perks with the 7 day time limit, is this going to be something that is permanent or just for alpha? Although it would give people a reason to spend the gold they have, I find saving for something more powerful and permanent might be a tad more satisfying! I love the game-play mechanics and i think it runs great, once the game gets going and minus the smalls bugs and glitches that happen after the round is over (the no gold or exp distribution!) But I can almost say that in order for me and players like me to stay, customizing our character is something that we NEED to be able to do. This will actually give us more incentives to play longer knowing there are many ways to customize each class with our individual load-outs!

Matchmaking: This by far has to come in second to the things that I have found in the game that just make me want to jump off a building! I understand that this is alpha and there are bound to be some sort of matching issues but it took almost 2 hours for me to play my first game! I literally left the game on search mode, went to have some food, post on a couple forums, played another game and when I came back the matching STILL wasn't done! 10 mins is far too long but 2 hours?? I honestly thought i hadn't did something that would even allow me to play! Once I did however and the game was over, it was found that if ONE single person left the lobby it would take at least 25-45 minutes to fill in ONE player slot and it seems people have gotten into the habit of just forcing it to stop matching and starting the process again! I am sure someone has brought this up but I don't see the harm in mentioning it again! (Side Note: The words in the rooms have yet to be updated to the correct form! ex:"recruit - rank lvl 5 and lower" which is actually rank 10 now, or so i have read from the forum!)

Possible Game Modes:

1. Chaos Mode (Survival) - Each player has to fight waves of AI as well as other players!
-Free for all with NO teams!
-Most kills wins
-Get to choose weather to play human or vampire
-5 minute time with dramatically increasing AI numbers and difficulty

2. Can't Touch This! (NO PERKS!) - Each team has to obtain kills using specific weapons!
-NO perks
-Most kills win
(This mode will be aimed for more "ADVANCED" players looking for a challenge)

3. Tag! Your It! - Each team has a random target and ONLY that targets death counts as a kill!
-4 min rounds / 3 rounds
-most kills wins
-4v4 - 5v5
-no kill minimum
-extra health % to the target / target is marked with a beacon of light see-able by foe and friendly


well this concludes my first "2 cents" so to speak! If i come up with anything else, Ill be sure to post accordingly! Thanks for reading!:wave:

Jora_Cross
3rd Feb 2014, 16:00
Let me add one of my own: Traitor(kinda like capture the flag.)
9 character match one character is a turn coat.
This character will be human who works for the vampires who spawns at his own point.
If humans can figure and abduct the traitor taking him back to their base they win a point.
If vampire can free the traitor before he is captured the vampires win a point then it resets.

Sl4ing
8th Feb 2014, 16:36
So far only team deathmatch and siege were presented and both had that team deathmatch feel, by this I mean there's no problem if you die since you will respawn.

Will be there any game mode like search and destroy ( as in counter strike for example )? Because always playing without worrying if I die gets borring, I would prefer a game with several rounds were I'd fear death since I would need to spec another player or something. Now the draining from the vampires makes sense "Oh I'm low, I'll try to be carefull and suck the life from someone" and the humans would have the support class to heal them.

Many things can be done, for example you could do a map/more (With several way in points) were the humans would have to attack a vampire lair to destroy it, you could make it like caves or a old mansion/castle making it dark inside and daylight outside (So the vampire would be a bit restricted to go outside), add windows to get blown up so the light goes in, and traps in the ground to kill humans.. There's so much things you could do and inovate.

I don't know if it's hard to implement night/day cicle in this game or at least some maps but there could be another gamemode like capture the flag where it started in the daylight so the humans would need to invade the vampire's lair to steal several artefacts and take them outside and vampires wouldn't be abble to go outside while it's day. But when it turns night they would need to go out and retrieve those stolen artefacts and now the humans are the defenders, if they manage to keep at least 1 artefact they win.



Sorry for my long post and bad english, I just wanted to "help" and give ideias instead of not giving enough information, do the devs look at the forums ?

aagranger3
10th Feb 2014, 05:54
This is just a suggestion/opening for discussion. I realise this is far too early for anything like this but I just wanted to see everyone else's thoughts. During one of my games 2 people from my team (humans) quit. Leaving us 4 vampires - 2 humans. And although this it was horribly mismatched and we died (alot), the game quickly became a hunter/hunted type of match which I felt was quite fun. Would anyone like to see something like this in the future? Just curious!

Thanks!

Monkeythumbz
10th Feb 2014, 22:55
These are all good suggestions - we do have additional game modes we'd like to implement and we'll be revealing them over on the blog (http://www.nosgoth.com/blog) in due course.

Sl4ing
11th Feb 2014, 20:31
These are all good suggestions - we do have additional game modes we'd like to implement and we'll be revealing them over on the blog (http://www.nosgoth.com/blog) in due course.

Hm ok, thank you !

LegacyOfKayn
11th Feb 2014, 20:58
Hmm a mode like counter strike where after u die u go spectate till the end sounds nice but i think it would require more than 4v4 players and plus that if u die like from 1 leap from a reaver and 1 marathon from a tyrant u would mostly stai on the spectator mode so that would be even more boring than just not fearing death...just saying:D

JL1991UK
11th Feb 2014, 22:13
Talking about counter strike , there is a zombie mode yes ? I think Nosgoth could implement a similar mode where when a human dies they turn into a vampire and simply would be a last man standing situation , points per kill and bonus points for the humans who live the longest . Just not sure how a round would start as 1 vampire vs 7 humans is a fight that will not work out well but is an idea that can be played with ....

Also a hardcore team deathmatch is much needed , simply no name or hp bars , no green and red aura around players , less hp to a degree and little to non aim assist for both sides . Just along the lines of hardcore team deathmatch like other games like Call of Duty , where skill and stealth is required , as well as teamwork and patience's .

Varulven
11th Feb 2014, 22:36
Also a hardcore team deathmatch is much needed , simply no name or hp bars , no green and red aura around players , less hp to a degree and little to non aim assist for both sides . Just along the lines of hardcore team deathmatch like other games like Call of Duty , where skill and stealth is required , as well as teamwork and patience's .

And friendly fire. If you accidentally hit a teammate, he / she will get demage.

MUAHAHAHAAA !! I'm evil :D

SoulGR
11th Feb 2014, 23:51
It would be good a mode with more than 4vs4 players so the players must think what class to choose for the team.For the afk's and leavers should be a little punish if they do it in regular base. As for another mode in the waiting screen we were talking about a campture the flag like mode.

JL1991UK
12th Feb 2014, 03:56
Evil perhaps but a valid point , may be an issue with so much aoe but could be an interesting addition .

faeral
12th Feb 2014, 06:14
TDM is a great casual gametype, good to just kick back & get some frags. Shorten the rounds by a little bit. Perhaps add a few buffs on timers to create more impactful moments & area permission tactics.

eg. Add a Vamp Buff ( Blood of X ), which spawns on the Human side, which gives them 100% regen for duration. Add a Human buff ( Holy Water ), which spawns on the Vamp side, which gives Water Bolts for duration, that would deny regen on hit until the Vamp drains a corpse. A 3rd buff could be added ( Adrenaline ) that anyone can claim, which reduces Charge timers by 50%. All buffs would need to be on ground level.

* * *

Siege mode looks great. I like the dual objectives & forward momentum created by locking the nodes. However, the life count is far too similar to TDM. The game ends immediately upon reaching 30 kills, even though members of the opposing team are still alive. This game type should feel more like a fight for survival rather than a race for kills. I would tweak the number of respawns each team has ( make it different from TDM ), & force a team to completely wipe out the opposing team after all respawns are depleted in order to win without completing the siege.

Shorten the timer for Humans to capture the next Flare, but add time to the clock each time a Flare is secured. That will create more impactful moments to play around & blowout matches will end more quickly, which is good for both sides.

Game is looking good, I look forward to getting my hands on it sometime.

edit: Looks like I misinterpreted some things about Siege mode after reading the blog post for the gametype, so not sure how well previous suggestions would apply. I will have to watch more matches to see. Also since Humans get no points for kills, does this mean that Vampires have infinite respawns in Siege? I recall someone in the video saying that Vampires have longer respawn times in Siege, is that the intended mechanic for survival incentive?

I am apprehensive about new objectives appearing for Humans after 2.5 min even if they are unable to secure a first node, but I suppose it does provide more comeback potential as opposed to simply ending the match on an early timer.

Cion84
13th Feb 2014, 13:38
What about "Sarafans vs Gods"?
We all know, how strong human Raziel was in Soul Reaver 2. So what about a group of 4 Sarafans vs 1 extrem powerful Vampire? Or 1 "less extreme powerful" and 3 with normal strength?
That way, we could fight as or against Raziel, Kain etc.
That wouldn´t be 100% lore friendly. But who knows? Maybe in a parallel universe or timeline...? ;)

Zsinked
16th Mar 2014, 20:29
Hey everyone, how are you

What I'd to bring to the table here is a discussion regarding game modes people would like to see. For now i feel the game has a lot of potential to expand it's lore by creating different game modes that can build interesting relationships with players and strategies.

One game mode i was thinking of recently would be a kind of Wave system:
- you play as humans and need to fight off waves of vampires that grow stronger and stronger after each round.

I feel this game mode could help players develop better strategies and practice against random kinds of vampire combinations.

The inverse can be applied so players can practice as vampire and fight off human waves.

If you guys have ideas for other game modes just post below and discuss :)

Enjoy,
Zsinked

Ygdrasel
17th Mar 2014, 09:02
A practice mode (such as AI waves) would be great.

But other than that...Eh. Siege is a dead mode already. If nobody will play other modes, why add them?

MrJesper
17th Mar 2014, 12:08
Hey everyone, how are you

What I'd to bring to the table here is a discussion regarding game modes people would like to see. For now i feel the game has a lot of potential to expand it's lore by creating different game modes that can build interesting relationships with players and strategies.

One game mode i was thinking of recently would be a kind of Wave system:
- you play as humans and need to fight off waves of vampires that grow stronger and stronger after each round.

I feel this game mode could help players develop better strategies and practice against random kinds of vampire combinations.

The inverse can be applied so players can practice as vampire and fight off human waves.

If you guys have ideas for other game modes just post below and discuss :)

Enjoy,
Zsinked

Hey, i already create a suggestion for this : http://forums.eu.square-enix.com/showthread.php?t=11131

hirukaru
23rd Mar 2014, 11:18
This topic is a work in progress
Please post other suggestions here.

Suggestion:
Cause this game is a team based game I suggest creating a tournament system. Which once a x amount of time (2 weeks) a major tournament is hosted for either NA or EU.

How does this work?
Teamleader creates a team (min 2 days and maximum 14 days before?)
Teamleader sends out invites to join his team (maximum of 8 people can accept this invite)

Why 8? A: you got then 4 on the reserve bench, these players are however also allowed to leave and join a different team at any time before the tournament

A script will randomly put teams in the tournament pool.

Tournament modes

Knock out

-single and double
Multistage
Bridge
Challenge
Ladder
Selection
Hybrid selection
Best of X



Priority:
- Low

notes
party system is not needed it overrules party system
cause you sign in outside nosgoth on the website -> then there has to be a special tournament lobby etc.
you join and the tournament system will detect your name and put you in your squad channel
(of course your fight times will be announced on website etc.)

Omhxyz
23rd Mar 2014, 12:27
Would LOOVE to have it. Here is a few other suggestions i seen/had:

Custom tournaments: Which we could setup any time, as public or private tournaments.

High profile tournaments: That requires runestones to enter(say 250-500?) with 8 teams(or maybe more), winner team get skins or something equally valuable. Everyone else get gold reward. There can be as many tournaments as possible, as long as 8 (anonymous) teams signed up for it.

In addition to the tourney modes, Jackpot tournament: ANYONE can join, no teams required. Not exactly a tournament but more like another pool of players with a long-long ladder. Where players earn x% of the gold they would normally earn(say 50%?) and the rest goes to the jackpot. So more players, bigger the pot. Players are allowed to play in it as much as they want. At the end of the tournament(when it times out at the end of the 2nd week), every participant(or top 50%) gets rewarded, according to their rank in the ladder, higher the rank more reward. This is a little complicated so i assume it would need a lot of work, here is an example of working version of it in mmodoc(a f2p card game); http://mmdocking.com/jackpot-tournament-faq/ .

I know the latter 2 is a little extreme but it would be awesome to have.

hirukaru
23rd Mar 2014, 12:31
I wonder if public/private will work everyone would setup a tournament.
that means like 100 tournaments will run at the same time and will be a bit strange.

Tournament request option would be nice though.

PencileyePirate
23rd Mar 2014, 22:59
This would be amazing if they had the time to build it in.

PWride
26th Mar 2014, 10:01
Some interesting suggestions there and I've heard rumblings of some stuff in the works so will have to wait and see what happens.

Korevas
26th Mar 2014, 10:47
As nice as it sounds, I don't think it would really be feasible to design something like that when very few players will ever see it. This, and it has a very high chance to end up dead if the population doesn't sustain it. Let's say you need 8 teams for a tournament, that's a minumum of 32 people who have to sign up way in advance and subsequently show up, which is quite a steep requirement.

Maybe they could test the waters and hold some kind of tournament that is managed externally and held in private lobbies, but I don't really see a ui overhaul happening just for it.

PWride
26th Mar 2014, 10:52
I think external tournaments is definitely an option as it means utilising existing infrastructures (bracket creation, team management etc etc). In terms of the private lobbies, if the alpha functionality where Steam Friends groups would join the same server made a return that may solve that, obviously it would need updating so that a group were all on the same team rather than mixed up. Alternatively some other logic or options to switch teams could also work.

Viridian24
27th Mar 2014, 05:00
The plot thickens!
Judging by some of the questions that were asked while signing up for the closed beta, I'm pretty sure Nosgoth is going to to gunning for the e-sports scene. It's a pretty ambitious goal, and I hope it makes it up there -- I'm getting pretty tired of League of Legends, though I love team-based games.

Ygdrasel
27th Mar 2014, 07:53
Like Korevas said, I doubt the population would sustain this well. Alternatively, an externally-managed tournament every [time interval goes here] or so could be a neat event, with appropriate prizes involved.

Ravious
28th Mar 2014, 03:19
There's no doubt that the combat is really good, but I was thinking that a more objective based mode would be pretty cool. Such as the simple concept of bomb missions in Counter-Strike, but perhaps that the vampires have certain altars where they have to take a victim to sacrifice, where as the other team has to stop this. I guess this would have to be compromised, depending on what the lore looks like.

I believe something like this is required for there to be a competitive scene, and not have the gameplay become repetitive too quickly.

I have no idea if this is something already planned, but I'm interested in reading your takes on this idea. :)

ZeroFernir
28th Mar 2014, 03:30
There is one already, called Siege.

Ravious
28th Mar 2014, 03:33
I just saw that, but I haven't gotten to try it out yet. But what I was thinking of is something a bit more focused. I realize that perhaps you shouldn't build up your game for esports, but let it evolve into it, but I still think that something like what I suggested is a cool idea.

Cradlis
29th Mar 2014, 07:25
There are some threads on that subject already. There a big discussions around history orriented modes where we could see, and live, some important moments in Nosgoth's history. I remind myself with two examples : Dumah's last stand and the conquest of the cathedral by Zephon's troops.

If there's something I want above all in this game is game modes like these where you have the chance to play as one of the Patriarch and make Nosgoth's history with other players ^^

Infernusdrake
3rd Apr 2014, 01:21
your objective mode sounds interesting especially with the different roles of each team and how they'd go about defending a point

but with captain mode i don't think that'd be very viable with the camping opportunities available to vampire since they can climb all over the map
unless you made an indoor map for it and in that case it would completely ruin the vampires

so its always possible that you have clan wars for vampies with captains mode and for humans

though of course that limits the queues for normal games as everyone would choose that mode specifically for the fact that they can avoid playing the faction that they don't like


10 points to gryffindor for trying to think outside the box though
that's always needed.

Prime_Abstergo
3rd Apr 2014, 07:37
Thats all good BUT...

why the hell noone is playing BRAND NEW SIEGE mode then?

Varulven
3rd Apr 2014, 12:04
Thats all good BUT...

why the hell noone is playing BRAND NEW SIEGE mode then?

I don't know how the other fellahs feel about it, but I don't like the Siege.
Maybe, because I can't handle changes and new things very well....

cmstache
3rd Apr 2014, 13:50
Thats all good BUT...

why the hell noone is playing BRAND NEW SIEGE mode then?

This is why I recommended making the siege and TDM lobbies the same playlist, at least during beta. TDM will ALWAYS be more popular than objective games. Gamers are notorious for just wanting to kill things and not coordinate. If they want it tested like i needs to be the lobbies need to be combined for a while. The gamemodes are so similar anyways it's hardly noticeable sometimes.

Momchilo
5th Apr 2014, 18:27
I love the game so far, from the atmosphere and the music to the combat everything suits my tastes. But I have one problem that I also have with every single game out there that is like this - there is no actual feeling of purpose or a greater motivation to win when playing a match. I know that the purpose is to have fun and win the match and gain dat exp but when I play it I get the "rinse and repeat" feeling I get with most of arena based games these days. It would be more fun if these game mods were to be added (in my opinion):


1. Battle mod.

In my opinion, this one is a must to be added. There isn't much to explain here. You would only have one life in one round of the match and if you died you would have to wait for your team to die (or eliminate the hostile team). After that you would start another round. The team with for example 10 rounds won would win the match.


2. Territory wars.

This is the main thing that a lot of mmos lack and the main reason that arena based games bore a lot of people after they spend a moderate amount of time playing it. In the end they all start feeling like rinse and repeat - grind type of games.

How can this be implemented? Firstly, this mode wouldn't be confined to clan players only and it would be wrong to do so. You would begin by clicking on the "Territory Wars" icon next to the Siege and Team Deathmatch modes. You would then be asked which race do you want to pick and once you pick it it sticks, you can't hop back and forward. You wouldn't start over, you would have your lvled up classes from other game mods. The game would then direct you to a map of Nosgoth that could also be seen via browser to check the status of the war. That map would consist of territories which would be the maps that are here now and the future ones that are to be added. There would be leaders on each side of the two races and they could be chosen in two ways (this would be up to the devs to decide) - they would either be chosen by the people on the forums or automatically by the player highest on the ladder.

Now, those leaders would make decisions on which part of Nosgoth to attack. Let's say for example a guy named Jeremy who is leading the vampires decides to attack Freeport which is owned by humans. The game announces to the human players that the battle begins at 18:00 pm gmt+0 for example. At that time the battle begins and pubs simply enter the territory war map and aim at the play icon situated bellow the Freeport picture and the matchmaking begins. From here it would playout the same with two major differences - first one is that they stay human (or vampire depending on their choice) in both rounds of the match and the second is that they have a purpose to win this match - to conquer or defend Freeport. All of the people would be matched up against eachother, and all of of the matches would be played in a timespan of e.x. 1hour. The side that has more matches won wins the territory and gets bonuses that come with it as a result. This way public players aren't excluded from this game mode and clans have an impact too.

Of course, you could make a territory war mode led by the computer (linear territory takeover). Another variant is to make one that doesn't require the leader or battles to be scheduled. This would simply be done by making a requirement of matches won before one race would take over a territory (for example Freeport requires 20 matches won and players would simply hop in there and fight while others are fighting on another territory).

So, what are your thoughts on this? How would it fit the game and would it ruin or improve the overall gameplay experience?

Also, I know devs rarely listen to the players and even rarer is to see a big mode like this to be implemented. But, I don't know if these developers listen to people so I just wanted to give it a shot. Thanks for taking your time to read this.

TL;DR

Territory wars are awsumsauce.

Oroibahazopi
5th Apr 2014, 18:34
Yes bring 50v50 open world combat to nosgoth.

Momchilo
5th Apr 2014, 21:18
Please don't reply if you haven't read the whole post :)

Oroibahazopi
5th Apr 2014, 21:29
I read it but having a global war over instanced small maps is so 90s

Momchilo
5th Apr 2014, 22:01
Games like CrimeCraft, World of Tanks and so on utilize this system. There isn't a better way of adding territory war in instanced map games. Don't see how it's a problem that the maps are instanced and small.

BOOMstyx
11th Apr 2014, 15:51
just wouldn't feel like an all out war on a small instanced map. would just be like playing tdm but pretending it's part of a war.... which is what you're already doing in tdm aside from the bonuses for a certain # of wins having been accumulated by one side or the other.

the battlemode sounds like it could be a good addition.

ICantPauseItMom
11th Apr 2014, 16:10
Their is tons of mode that can be added here!
The first mode you suggested been around the suggestion area for a bit, which is probably going to see the light of day in the future, once maps get a bit more balancing to them.

The 2nd suggestion is meh in my books.

ZeroFernir
11th Apr 2014, 16:13
I read it but having a global war over instanced small maps is so 90s

Not 90s, but it will SURELLY make the game MUCH more laggy.

lugexd
18th Apr 2014, 04:04
I was wondering what the thoughts were on introducing the Reavers/Wraiths. Or even a Hero mode where you can play as people like Kain, Raziel or Moebius. Could even do it kind of like how Hero characters are done in Battlefront. to a degree. Or a tag team of Humans and Vampires vs Reavers, but that would be a little weird. I'm not sure... Thoughts?

Psyonix_Corey
18th Apr 2014, 04:21
There's some potential there for Lieutenants, but Raziel and Kain are not around right now and the last thing we want to do is misuse them, or not do them justice (do you really want to get killed as Raziel by some random people?).

lugexd
18th Apr 2014, 04:34
you make a good point on that... It would definitely be hard to do them justice for this, and yeah, the fact they aren't around kinda puts a damper on it as well. keep forgetting that. the lieutenants would be pretty fun I'd think.

ICantPauseItMom
18th Apr 2014, 04:56
Quick Match: You may chose ether side (Humans or Vampires) or let it randomize. Game starts normally, except team will be organized also to what every player has picked.

The game will only go for one 10min round, and then it is over. No swapping afterwards.

This match would be perfect for those who may not have time to go a full match, or just wants to do a quick game.
As well for those who would like to pick a side and stick with it.

This mode would probably be best kept for open beta/full release.

I suggest less reward for this mode also, to avoid having it to much abused (Over Used)

ICantPauseItMom
18th Apr 2014, 05:04
Something i'v seen in a few games such as left 4 dead and league of legends, is event modes.
Mode that normally can't be played are playable for a limited time.

The idea for these mods would be mostly just for fun.

Modes such as:
Humans vs Humans/ Vampires vs Vampires - Self explanatory
All classes vs All classes - Can be both vampires and humans on same team)
Hyper Mode - Bunch of stat boosts, such as huge clips, super fast attacking, ext... (would require some good balancing)

and ext...

I would suggest every mode be about a week long, giving a week or so in between each event.

Many things can be done, and it gives players a new game mode to play every now n then.

Rewards should be adjusted a bit to balance it out of course.
Also if any sort of ranking system is put into place, id suggest also that this not effect it.

Any other idea's for even game modes?
Also what do you think of this idea?

Minsoinch
18th Apr 2014, 16:03
+1 Sometimes I have limited time and a quick match would be a nice touch.

Varulven
18th Apr 2014, 19:15
Something i'v seen in a few games such as left 4 dead and league of legends, is event modes.
Mode that normally can't be played are playable for a limited time.

The idea for these mods would be mostly just for fun.

Modes such as:
Humans vs Humans/ Vampires vs Vampires - Self explanatory
All classes vs All classes - Can be both vampires and humans on same team)
Hyper Mode - Bunch of stat boosts, such as huge clips, super fast attacking, ext... (would require some good balancing)

and ext...

I would suggest every mode be about a week long, giving a week or so in between each event.

Many things can be done, and it gives players a new game mode to play every now n then.

Rewards should be adjusted a bit to balance it out of course.
Also if any sort of ranking system is put into place, id suggest also that this not effect it.

Any other idea's for even game modes?
Also what do you think of this idea?

I totally support this idea!
And if an event mode goes very well, it maybe could be added permanently.
Just my 2 cents ^^

ICantPauseItMom
19th Apr 2014, 02:55
I totally support this idea!
And if an event mode goes very well, it maybe could be added permanently.
Just my 2 cents ^^

With in reason, maybe they could stay (depending on the mode) in most cases tho, these mods are more built for fun, and for a different play mode, so if it comes and goes, their will always be a new play mode, even when it comes back, it still feels fresh after not playing it for a while.

Saranjivac
20th Apr 2014, 00:59
Or a 5min round swap, or even 5min 1 side only (super quick :P)

Ygdrasel
20th Apr 2014, 01:14
Couldn't hurt. Better than having to bail after round one.

Khalith
20th Apr 2014, 01:36
I like this idea!

Sanguise23
21st Apr 2014, 14:43
not a bad idea

Psyonix_Corey
21st Apr 2014, 16:09
We can certainly support short rounds later, but I don't feel we currently have the population to support an additional playlist.

Soujirop
25th May 2014, 12:01
Hi, I’ve found that as the matches are now, the game can feel kind of boring. I think that this is just because we are on a beta state of game, but I just wanted to make sure that in the future we would need to be capable of adjusting:
-The number of rounds.
-The time for each round.
-The kills needed to win a round.
-Select the map.

I believe those are pretty obvious. Plus longer rounds and more number of rounds, are something that encourage planning and teamwork. With the short rounds that we have now, people do not take time to teamwork, much less to talk through microphone to organize the team. Other things you should add:

-Team leader. This is extremely important on a team match. Usually people do not agree in whom should be the leader, it takes time. By randomly giving the rank leader to a player, the team instantly has someone to follow. Maybe in the match making you could add a button like “claim leadership” to prevent noobs from being leader (this is assuming noobs won’t press that button :))
-New game modes. So we have siege now, but I would add some more:
-“Kill the leader” mode. This game is extremely fun, I have played it in other games. It is a team-match where you make points by killing the enemy leader. So the game revolves around protecting the leader of your group, and at the same time going after the enemy leader.
-“Kill the boss” mode. In this game, a giant super powerful boss controlled by machine is spawned on the map. The aim of both teams is to kill the boss. This is fun because you need to make some of the members of your team kill the other team, while others try to kill the boss. The boss would drop an artifact when dying. You have to take that artifact to your base. While holding the artifact, vampires can not climb.
-“All vs all” mode. In this game, everyone selects the character they like, vampire or human, and everyone is against everyone. 8 players trying to kill each other and stealing each other’s kills. Fun :)
-“Football match”. So in this game you select a goalkeeper and- ... Just Kiddin.

So that is all. Plus I have thought about a new map idea. This map would be selectable on team deathmatch. It is a map with a day-night cycle. Vampires must shelter from daylight or they will take damage over time. At night, they are slightly buffed. Humans are slightly buffed at day. This makes the match interesting because humans should try to kill vampires while the day lasts, but they will have to face them inside buildings and that is dangerous. That or either lure them out, ie throwing a grenade inside.

So, what do you think? Do you want those matchmaking options and game modes implemented?

Varulven
25th May 2014, 12:37
I like the Football idea :lol:

How about 'Steal the flag'?
Every team has to steal the flag from the opposite team and has to carry it to the own base.

ParadoxicalOmen
25th May 2014, 13:58
http://forums.eu.square-enix.com/showthread.php?t=7435&highlight=Dumah

This idea was already discussed, and i realize that if it were to be done...it would be something in the far future, if Nosgoth had the necessary funds etc. But i'm quite fond of it...tell me what you think.

Seariously
29th May 2014, 15:36
I would like to see more game modes aside from TDM and siege (which no one plays).

Guardian mode -
1 random person on each team is the Guardian. protect the guardian at all cost, you will keep respawning until the guardian dies. This is a game mode in the game Gears of War. Very fun and exciting. Once the guardian dies everyone will be on their last life and there will no more respawning. First team to win 3 rouns win the guardian game mode.

Search and Destroy Mode -
Each player has 1 life. Vampires have to assault human base. Humans are defending and vampires are attacking. Humans can play defense at tactical choke points to hold the vampires back.
Vampires will have to play tactical offensive strategies to take over their point/base.

King of Hill Mode -
1st round - when either team gets to gets to 10 kills will end the round. At this point the two lowest damage on both teams will sit out.
2nd round - when either team gets to gets to 10 kills will end the round. At this point the two lowest damage on both teams will sit out.
3rd round - when either team gets to gets to 10 kills will end the round. At this point the two lowest damage on both teams will sit out.
Last round - 1v1 - 1Human vs 1Vampire. Winner of this round will win the round.

League/Scrim Mode
Each team can only have 1 class at a time. So no more 4 prophets on human team or 4 reavers on vampire team.
This mode should be how competitive games will be in scrims and league mode. Teamwork is key because each class brings their own versatility and strategies to the table.

Ygdrasel
30th May 2014, 01:57
An idea that appears with some frequency is a boss game mode. One vampire gets a huge HP boost and powerful abilities, and the rest play on the human end to take him down.

Connatic
30th May 2014, 05:33
An idea that appears with some frequency is a boss game mode. One vampire gets a huge HP boost and powerful abilities, and the rest play on the human end to take him down.

I always found this game mode borring. It's popped up in many other PvP games via mods. It's cool for a little bit, to get your chance to be the super human monster...but gets really boring quick. Any new game mode should be objective based, not just adding some wacky rules to a Deathmatch.

Cycerion
4th Jun 2014, 12:06
Hello fellow Nosgoth players/dev. team

What if there was a game mode, besides deathmatch, in where the humans are making a weapon to kill the vampires, but the vampires have to stop them.
A sort of headquarters game, where the vampires have to kill the humans before the weapon is finished.
And the game is over if the weapon is built or used OR when the vampires destroy all the equipment to make the weapon (like 1 part per human player).

Any comments on this or suggestions?

Wacky_Tobaccy
5th Jun 2014, 10:57
We actually tried a variation of this with a bunch of players on 'New Recruit':

Vampire faction must drag bodies back to a 'queen' to feed. X amount of bodies required to win the round.

It's simple, all the mechanics are already in place, and it would be pretty fun.

Strike5150
5th Jun 2014, 13:08
Just so everyone understands why siege mode is not being played is because of how the spawns worked in the mode. The team that had better spawns would win. When playing human you can get a "good" spawn and capture a point before the vampires can even get there. So it really had little to do with skill and a lot more to do with spawning in a lucky place.

This is why its not being played, but we did like it. Its just not fun to play when you know it has nothing to do with your skill.

r0ph37
5th Jun 2014, 14:13
I would like a mode where i can pick: Vampire or Human and stick with it till the end of the match. I think this would be a good thing.
I really like the style of a mode like conquering regions (maps). I read here a good idea where ther would be a mode where people choose their side and fight to conquer all the map, a game style like PlanetSide 2 but smaller scale.

But i would really like to be able to choose my side of the war either Vampire or Human.

BOOMstyx
6th Jun 2014, 21:14
I don't know if there is going to be any other game modes then those witch are there now on the alpha?

But I just came up with one that could be fun? maybe? It's named "Resources" mode/game and i works that way that there are randomly spawning Civilian on the map. that both Vampires and Human's need's for their survival if you think of it like Vampires need's cattle for blood and Human's need's soldiers.

So when the Civilian/Cattle spawn both team's need to capture the civilian and drag/carry/escort him to the extraction point witch would be different every time so you can't just wait for the other team to get there and then kill them all if you know what I mean. or it would always be on the same place that you have to escort the Civilian/Cattle

and then it would be like a time limit 20 min and the team that first get's 5-10 Civilians/Cattle wins

I came up with this idea when I noticed that you could drag bodies with vampires, so why not drag your cattle back to the "fram"

could be like TF2 game mode, but with a cage (full of humans yelling for help, arms beseechingly outstretched through the bars) instead of a cart. *hears the heavy's voice - 'WE MUST POOSH LITTLE CARrT!'

BOOMstyx
6th Jun 2014, 21:16
Just so everyone understands why siege mode is not being played is because of how the spawns worked in the mode. The team that had better spawns would win. When playing human you can get a "good" spawn and capture a point before the vampires can even get there. So it really had little to do with skill and a lot more to do with spawning in a lucky place.

This is why its not being played, but we did like it. Its just not fun to play when you know it has nothing to do with your skill.

yeah, this and sometimes not being able to see the progress on points. so without vamps realizing it, a human could be solo ninja capturing it and be almost done before the vamps have an idea it's happening. that's irritating too.

LorenCole
8th Jun 2014, 09:18
As I've said in my review, I'd like some more "story driven" modes. I mean, even if this is a multiplayer based game, it can be considered a spin-off.

I had an idea: I don't now if you guys are planning to include Melchahim in the game as a next class, but has I remember Melchiah was one of the weakest in the Council, so I think that the involution has affected him more then the other clans, transforming them in decaying vampire "zombies", driven only by bloodlust.

So, why not a Coop mode with Humans trying to defend civilians from a horde of Melchahims really hungry?

I don't know if you guys have ever played the new XCOM game. During the tutorial, you have to "explore" a city where Aliens have abducted people. There's silence all over the place, corpse and desctruction everywhere, and "you" don't know what menace lies ahead.

It can be done for this mode. You can make the Humans spawn far from the survived civilians, and while you reach them you can hear footsteps, or see something in the distance, movements of creatures hiding... then you reach the civilians, and the horde comes.

To make the mode more versatile you can make the horde coming randmly. I mean, maybe you reach the civialians and you'll see that they are already been attacked an killed, so you have to run to another group in another part of the map, but this time while your team is attacked by Melchahims.

And for Vampires, well... there are the Sarafans. Killing an entire legion of Sarafans. Tasty.

LorenCole
8th Jun 2014, 09:31
I love the game so far, from the atmosphere and the music to the combat everything suits my tastes. But I have one problem that I also have with every single game out there that is like this - there is no actual feeling of purpose or a greater motivation to win when playing a match. I know that the purpose is to have fun and win the match and gain dat exp but when I play it I get the "rinse and repeat" feeling I get with most of arena based games these days. It would be more fun if these game mods were to be added (in my opinion):


1. Battle mod.

In my opinion, this one is a must to be added. There isn't much to explain here. You would only have one life in one round of the match and if you died you would have to wait for your team to die (or eliminate the hostile team). After that you would start another round. The team with for example 10 rounds won would win the match.


2. Territory wars.

This is the main thing that a lot of mmos lack and the main reason that arena based games bore a lot of people after they spend a moderate amount of time playing it. In the end they all start feeling like rinse and repeat - grind type of games.

How can this be implemented? Firstly, this mode wouldn't be confined to clan players only and it would be wrong to do so. You would begin by clicking on the "Territory Wars" icon next to the Siege and Team Deathmatch modes. You would then be asked which race do you want to pick and once you pick it it sticks, you can't hop back and forward. You wouldn't start over, you would have your lvled up classes from other game mods. The game would then direct you to a map of Nosgoth that could also be seen via browser to check the status of the war. That map would consist of territories which would be the maps that are here now and the future ones that are to be added. There would be leaders on each side of the two races and they could be chosen in two ways (this would be up to the devs to decide) - they would either be chosen by the people on the forums or automatically by the player highest on the ladder.

Now, those leaders would make decisions on which part of Nosgoth to attack. Let's say for example a guy named Jeremy who is leading the vampires decides to attack Freeport which is owned by humans. The game announces to the human players that the battle begins at 18:00 pm gmt+0 for example. At that time the battle begins and pubs simply enter the territory war map and aim at the play icon situated bellow the Freeport picture and the matchmaking begins. From here it would playout the same with two major differences - first one is that they stay human (or vampire depending on their choice) in both rounds of the match and the second is that they have a purpose to win this match - to conquer or defend Freeport. All of the people would be matched up against eachother, and all of of the matches would be played in a timespan of e.x. 1hour. The side that has more matches won wins the territory and gets bonuses that come with it as a result. This way public players aren't excluded from this game mode and clans have an impact too.

Of course, you could make a territory war mode led by the computer (linear territory takeover). Another variant is to make one that doesn't require the leader or battles to be scheduled. This would simply be done by making a requirement of matches won before one race would take over a territory (for example Freeport requires 20 matches won and players would simply hop in there and fight while others are fighting on another territory).

So, what are your thoughts on this? How would it fit the game and would it ruin or improve the overall gameplay experience?

Also, I know devs rarely listen to the players and even rarer is to see a big mode like this to be implemented. But, I don't know if these developers listen to people so I just wanted to give it a shot. Thanks for taking your time to read this.

TL;DR

Territory wars are awsumsauce.

Cool! That's a thing that could make the game affordable even for obtuse LoK old fans!

GenFeelGood
9th Jun 2014, 17:40
This would require the use of bots, but what about something centered around a campaign to retake Avernus. There is not much on the cities fate after Blood Omen and its nowhere to be seen in Soul Reaver. Perhaps Avernus could have been abandoned by Kain in his pursuit to conquer Nosgoth and left to fall into ruins as the last territory occupied by demons. During this uprising however, it becomes clear to both humans and vampire how strategically significant it would be. Which ever side controlled Avernus could have strategic control over the Eastern side of Nosgoth.

You do a round as either vampires or humans, you go in with a full team of 8 but you don't respawn if you die until the start of the next round. The goal is to eliminate wave after wave of demons until the end and Avernus is cleansed.

If it reminds you of horde mode that is because that was the inspiration for it and it was my favorite mode from Gears of War.

LorenCole
12th Jun 2014, 09:43
This would require the use of bots, but what about something centered around a campaign to retake Avernus. There is not much on the cities fate after Blood Omen and its nowhere to be seen in Soul Reaver. Perhaps Avernus could have been abandoned by Kain in his pursuit to conquer Nosgoth and left to fall into ruins as the last territory occupied by demons. During this uprising however, it becomes clear to both humans and vampire how strategically significant it would be. Which ever side controlled Avernus could have strategic control over the Eastern side of Nosgoth.

You do a round as either vampires or humans, you go in with a full team of 8 but you don't respawn if you die until the start of the next round. The goal is to eliminate wave after wave of demons until the end and Avernus is cleansed.

If it reminds you of horde mode that is because that was the inspiration for it and it was my favorite mode from Gears of War.

Nice idea! We totally need Coop modes like that.

EmnityFrost
12th Jun 2014, 09:50
You must realize the amount of coding and development time to implement such modes. I hardly believe it is even possible to undertake so early in beta. Plus this is not simple top down RTS kinda game, its 3rd person with verticality all over the place, designing the AI and all the bots can equal to everything they have done so far, so... we must focus on what we have and work from there.

LorenCole
12th Jun 2014, 10:13
You must realize the amount of coding and development time to implement such modes. I hardly believe it is even possible to undertake so early in beta. Plus this is not simple top down RTS kinda game, its 3rd person with verticality all over the place, designing the AI and all the bots can equal to everything they have done so far, so... we must focus on what we have and work from there.

I know that's a beta and this ideas are, in fact, ideas. For a future.

And if I can give my opinion, sticking on the PvP it's a riscky manouver.

There are some may free-to-play PvP centred games on the Net, Pc sales are increasing just because MOBAs are having so much success. And people quickly get tired of the same things.

A good setting and gameplay wont keep the game alive, let's be honest. It's like some years ago, with the MMOs. There were so many, different in ambient and a little in the game itself but... people returned to World of Warcraft anyway.

Lineage, Guild Wars, The Old Republic, 4Story... all worthy titles in the game industries... bot sormonted again after some time by WoW.

If this game stays only PvP for too long, people will return to the MOBAs, or to Online Shooters, because there's nothing new and fresh.

For me, this game has potential to elevate and be original. The LoK universe has so much lore to use!

If they can mix the online PvP game, the social aspect of gaming communites and the hunger for story of the more "matured" players, Nosgoth can really be the new star of online gaming.

So, I now that it will take so much efforts, money and time, but I know for sure that the final result can repay all.

cmstache
12th Jun 2014, 12:08
Guild Wars 2 and The Old Republic are still pretty huge in terms of followings.

LorenCole
12th Jun 2014, 12:23
Guild Wars 2 and The Old Republic are still pretty huge in terms of followings.

Guild Wars 2 deserves its followers, but unfortunatly I know many people that have stopped playing it because it's FREE. The reason is arguably right. People that play WoW pay a subscription fee, so they prefer play it because they pay for playing it and they don't want to waste money.

The Old Republic has increased the numbers of players becoming free, because it was almost dead when it was subscribers only. And for the same reason above, people are quitting for WoW.

Other reasons of leavers are "This game looks exactly like WoW, it's a copy no worth playing it". Eugh.

The only reason because WoW has a crisis in terms of suscribers... it's LoL. And that's all. So depressing.

GenFeelGood
16th Jun 2014, 01:52
You must realize the amount of coding and development time to implement such modes. I hardly believe it is even possible to undertake so early in beta. Plus this is not simple top down RTS kinda game, its 3rd person with verticality all over the place, designing the AI and all the bots can equal to everything they have done so far, so... we must focus on what we have and work from there.

I realize any and all of this would require a great deal of coding and design.

I'd say 90-99% percent of what I, and everybody else, suggest for the game's future development and expansion isn't likely until some time in the future (shortly after Beta at the absolute earliest) when the game is proven successful and is able to expand further. Until then, all we can do is put our ideas out there for the Developers to consider for when that time comes.

Edit
You can't say you wouldn't want to go toe to toe with a demon as a Turelim.
http://www.nosgoth.net/sr2/dialogue/SR0012001.jpg vs https://encrypted-tbn0.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcSZrQDgOVczQI2IAKYPxhlyHCRQouV3dZHdp_6ANEapjAVEyQiXpA

Juggernaut vs Juggernaut always kicks ass
https://encrypted-tbn1.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcQ4qBN6mS9mGLxoMhn3a013JAtInpu_vFY7W4KCLzQuAVsKIISY
https://encrypted-tbn2.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcRjFz4TvRjKoxGrEbzTy-bjNX-n3JUWlSXiVQnmQyC-q9h4lZ6x9g

GenFeelGood
20th Jun 2014, 17:35
I just used the tutorial today and guess what it had, BOTS! Plus, the map layout with a linear path leading from one area to another and, after finishing a task, proceeding forward is how I pictured the Avernus Mode (just with larger, more diverse map sections). Maybe starting from the gates or crumbled outer wall into Avernus and and possibly ending somewhere inside Avernus Cathedral, maybe down into the areas formerly occupied by the hash'ak'gik cult.

Navenowsky
23rd Jun 2014, 21:58
Hello. I started playing Nosgoth few days ago. Game seems to be very good, combat is intense. But these two game modes are getting boooring.

Will there be any new game modes? I don't know maybe 10 vs 10 or something else?

Greetings

Bazielim
24th Jun 2014, 00:11
There are other modes in planning but there not as high a priority at the moment.

Unfortunately 10 Vs 10 is quite unlikely as the maps simply aren't designed for that amount of players - there might be a 5 Vs 5 in future though

PlutonianKnight
24th Jun 2014, 02:20
So at the time of writing, there's only been one gamemode and that is Team Deathmatch. I was thinking about a few other possible game modes that could be implimented with basically the same gameplay but a different goal for the game.

One of them would be a sort of progression where the Humans would make their way down a map, stopped from progressing by a door or wall until a certain number of kills or an amount of time is reached at which point the obstacle would be removed. There would be 4 Health/Ammo refills in each segment, which any Humans can use though it is designed for one to each Human. The Humans, in addition to the Health refills on the maps, can revive each other after death with maybe a 10 second animation during which time they cannot attack or use any skills so that the other team members have to protect them. The Vampires, 4 or perhaps a higher number, would have the task of trying to kill all Humans before they can reach the end of the map. This gamemode requires little change to the mechanics of the game except for a revival animation and the creation of a couple new maps designed for the gamemode.

Another, probably more thought of, gamemode is a sort of Viral Tag where one buffed Vampire starts hunting 7 Humans. After each kill, the Vampire would be forced to drag away the killed Human and execute them, at which point the executed Human would turn into another Vampire with the same goal, without buffs. I admit that this gamemode would be more difficult to create due to figuring out how to make the starting Vampire strong enough spread the Virus without dying but not so strong as to be a complete tank, but I believe the programming would be easy enough to translate from TDM to Viral Tag.

I hope these ideas spark something.

-|=====>

Kriegson
24th Jun 2014, 14:05
Sorry if this is in the wrong section, I requested beta forum access sending a PM to the mod with ingame screenshots (IIRC this is what is required) but no access, so not sure if they've done away with them entirely or what have you.

That said, some ideas!

Assassination:4-6 human players (possibly 1 PC* vamp)

A group of humans fight against a vampire lieutenant (one of those under the direct control of the clan heads) seeking to weaken the vampire scourge in a decapitating blow to their forces in the area.

The vampire is either AI controlled with a specific set of abilities and modified appearance, or player controlled, likewise with more powerful options. Essentially a "Co-op boss battle" of sorts.

This can be useful in helping players learn how to play human and coordinate better against vampires.

Culling:3-4 vamps. Indeterminate AI humans, possibly some PC

The vampires have found a human settlement and seek to ravage it to the ground, teaching the humans the folly of rebellion. The area is populated with both "Civilian" humans and some combatants. The goal is to destroy structures (Possibly just sit near and interact) and kill X amount of humans before they can all evacuate.

This could be handled a few different ways. Either with PC humans spawning in waves and trying to stop the vamps from killing the civilians/destroying the town, though with humans, Ai villagers running all over, and vamps, I think this could be problematic.

More realistically, it could be kind of a "Survival" for vampires. As the mission starts, you have a handful of civilians and structures with few "guards" to protect them. Once the structures are destroyed (mandatory) or the civilians have escaped or been killed, another wave starts. Possibly with more structures, certainly with more civilians and more guards as they seek to end the raid.

For vamps, it's just empowering fun crushing puny humans and drinking their blood, muaha! It could also be used as a platform for storytelling/plot progression (If we will have any) as well.


*Player Controlled

Valaskor
24th Jun 2014, 16:28
I Support your Ideas and i have some as well.

How about new game modes with larger Maps and more Players in General ?

After i've looked at the background of some of the maps we already got i was like "oh wow it would be epic to battle there, or go there". Don't get me wrong i don't want to turn this into an mmo or something crazy like that. Just more/bigger Maps maybe located on the Distant Edges of already implemented maps ? Let's say from where you could see Freeport or any other.

Game Modes like 8vs8 16vs16 would be very interesting as well in my Opinion. Especially in other game Modes like "Siege" or others. Scripted Events/Special Event Maps or Modes would be cool as well like where you Fight against 1 AI Faction while you yourself have limited numbers. But that's up to the devs if they see something like that fit.

Kriegson
24th Jun 2014, 16:57
How about new game modes with larger Maps and more Players in General ?


I think it might have to do with engine limitations or optimization, also balance. Spamming arrow storms everywhere on the map could be quite annoying -_-

SpectralWraith
24th Jun 2014, 17:08
Soul Reaver 1 maps would be great, like the silenced cathedral or necropolis, also new classes

Neonrain
24th Jun 2014, 22:03
Larger maps could be fun although, that assassination mode idea seems very one sided with all the disables the humans have

GoldenXan
27th Jun 2014, 13:00
Hello everyone,

I've spent some time brewing this thing in my head an I came up with this concept. Unfortunately, it wasn't as original as I thought it was, considering that it was the very second thing I saw mentioned in this topic, but I decided to add my thoughts to it just the same, for it might be useful.

It is not my job or place to give name and values to features, so I will limit myself to explain concepts. For the sake of reference, I'm calling this game mode 'Attrition'.

The concept is this: The map is of human nature and there are civilians in the city. Men, women, and perhaps even children are scattered in random locations with their own particular spawn-points, often inside houses and other buildings, and it is the job of the human team to keep them alive for as long as possible. The vampire team is assigned to kill a set amount of humans in the allotted time, and the humans must keep the casualties under that amount until the time runs out.

There is only one score, the number of lives that the vampire took, and only civilian kills count towards this score. That means that killing the human players is only meant to clear the way, and does not count as a score kill.

This is the basic concept, but here are the functions that define it and give it life.

Civilians are AI controlled, and would typically wait in the 'safety' of their location, either until they are attacked by vampires or until a human player reaches them and commands them to leave. Basic functions that the NPC must have is capability of finding his own path to move through the map, avoiding falls, and attempting running when attacked.
Human players might be able to partially and indirectly control the civilian's actions by ordering them to follow, to move, or to stop in a given location. I will elaborate further.
Each civilian have its own health, which need not be as strong as a human player, but shouldn't be as weak as dying with one hit. Their health pool may vary from character to character in small amounts, as well as could gender and age change this; This creates more 'valuable' targets for the vampires, as they might aim for the weaker. I believe 2/3 of a regular human player health would fit proportionally.
Civilians may or may not be able to be healed by Sacrifice and Healing Mist.
Civilians may or may not have involuntary actions, such as panicking and running from player control to random locations at the sight of many vampires or dead civilians, or cowering in fear and crouching against a wall.


There are many things to take into consideration, some of which will limit the game for the sake of simplicity. For instance, civilians might be entirely controlled by the AI at all times and react only as far as they are programmed to, or the human players might have partial control over their movements.

If it is merely AI, then the civilians might follow the human players when they approach them, attaching themselves to that player and the chain is broken. The civilians would follow the player wherever they go, and they might be susceptible to panic if the player gets too far away from them (such as in a Throw or Kidnap), or if he/she dies. If there is another player in the surrounding area, they might attach themselves to that player. Otherwise, they might sit in place or scatter back to their original location.

Having a completely controlled by the AI system makes it more simple for the player, but might limit the options and the game will depend heavily on the efficiency of this system, which is risky.

Alternatively, the player could have partial control. Aiming for the possibility of implementing this on consoles in the future, every command could be given by a single key. Say X, as human, is the civilian command key.
By aiming at a civilian, or perhaps a group of them if the development team believes it would work best this way, a player can attach the civilians to him. Now he can order them around by:

Double tapping X: To follow, or in follow mode, stop following and wait in place.
Tapping X aiming at the ground: Move to location.
Tapping X aiming at another player: Follow that player--Pass control to them.
Hold down X: Disengage civilians. They might return to their original location.


Of course, the functions need not be these specific ones, these are merely suggestions and there might be better ways to pull this off, but these simple commands already add a lot of variety to the system.

Some general notes to think about:
-- Whether the player can communicate to the civilians at any location or if he needs to be within a range for them to hear him.

-- If the player will have some sort of UI alert that tells him whether there are still people under his control that are not engaged in his last command. For instance, if the player told people to follow him through a shout, and at least one civilian was outside of hearing range, would he follow the others, would he just stand there? How would the player know this happened? If the civilians have a group AI, then perhaps that wouldn't be an issue, but if not, can the player see them through walls like he can see his team mates, or he needs to look at them to make sure no one was left?

-- Since human players have this kind of control, couldn't they purposely handle the game to the vampires by ordering civilians to stand in the open and not helping them? Yes, they might be able to, so what can we do about it?
Civilians might have a direct, intricate connection to the human score. If you gathered more civilians and managed to save them, you will benefited along with the team, but if they keep dying, it might work against you, such as low score, thus having a lower XP and lower gold gain. That alone might not save players from working against their team, so other measure would have to be taken, though I frankly am not sure of what could be done. Perhaps civilians would refuse to follow (attach to) a player who continuously fail to protect their kin.

More specifically, if a given amount of civilians who where attached to a player dies without him having engaged to protect them, the game might read it as giving the kills, and thus the AI may no longer work in that player's favor for the duration of the match.

-- There could be new elements for handling XP with these features, such as bonuses for keeping civilians alive for a long time, or for guarding lots of them at the same time, perhaps for engaging and killing vampires who are attacking them too. For vampires, bonuses could vary too, such as killing multiple civilians at once, or in sequence.

-- How many civilians could a single human be attached to? I can't help defining that, because that depends on too many things outside of my knowledge, and things that depend on the engine and the structure itself.

-- Would the amount of civilians be fixed or they would keep respawning? The problem with respawning is that vampires might be able to predict these locations and gain kills outside of the humans reach. It can be said, simply, that it is the human's jobs to locate and keep them safe despite this, though.

-- Team rotation work just as it does now.

-- This is obviously a more complex game mode. Thus, recruits mustn't be able to play them until they are experienced enough. Also, this game mode should present some tutorial for the basic functionality, and/or an explaining video, such as the Titan mode in Battlefield 2142.

Additionally, or alternatively even, where on human maps there are civilians, on vampire maps such as dungeons and the Vampire City even, there are cocoons to protect instead of AI controlled civilians. The game mode works in the same way, but instead of the score being for the vampire team, the kills are counted to the human team, with only the cocoons counting as kills, and the vampires must protect them until a given time comes to an end.

The advantage of this is that cocoons don't require AI, and so it is a lot more simple to make and to play than the civilians one. However, they might be called even separate game modes, because although the concept is similar, the gameplay might get entirely different.


The vampires in the cocoons could squirm and scream when being attacked (or just squirming, depending on their formation, which I don't really know about much), specially when burning. Charred bodies could fall off the cocoon once it is dead.
Locations could vary randomly, and they could either fill the map or, again, respawn at other locations. I particularly like them all being spawned at once since it doesn't make sense for cocoons to pop out of nowhere... These are transforming vampires, that supposedly were readying themselves for a long time. Still, I thought to mention it.
Cocoons could be placed in the ground, the walls, and even the ceiling.
Cocoons might regenerate over time if not attacked, so if a human team is wiped, there might be enough time for the cocoons to get back to full health, thus adding interesting strategy possibilities to the mix.


This game mode I suggest is quite different from what I've seen, and it might be fitting for the game world. It is completely different from what we have so far, so I hope you enjoyed reading this and skimmed on your mind as you digested how it would be cool to play it and how many interesting strategies you already came up with.
If you didn't like it, that is your right, but don't bash it if you have any reason to think this is unworthy of attention, since that is not a healthy habit, and for those who liked it, feel free to make amends where you think they are needed or just leave your opinion to let people know, especially the developers, that you would be happy to play it.

Good luck, and have fun.

Orcoholist
12th Jul 2014, 05:33
To be honest the game is tired.
What hear about new mods?

PencileyePirate
12th Jul 2014, 07:27
I would much rather see several new vampire maps and a minimum of 5 classes per faction before any sort of gameplay mods are introduced. Map variety is one thing this game is sorely lacking, and that will remain true even after the Fane is released.

TheRatstomper
30th Jul 2014, 00:53
First of all, the game is really fun. Overall, it has a nice design and feel. However, There's one thing I don't like about it: mandatory team swapping.

Now, I understand that current matches switch teams to get a more fair balance (L4D style), but I find myself really preferring playing the humans over the vampires and thinking "Well, let's get this over with so I can get to my next round as human". I'm pretty decent with both, but the play styles are so different that I just like the feel and design of one over the other. It's completely personal preference, as the vampires have interesting designs as well; they're just not my cup of tea.

So, what about a system that would allow players to play only one side? My first thought was a conquest mode that you would queue as your preferred side and match results would be tracked on a regional or global basis. Are the vampires quashing the human resistance overall? Are the humans beginning to turn the tide and take back the land? It would a bit of persistence to the game, gives the game world a bit of depth and allows those of us who don't like one side or the other to play the one we want and have even more fun.

Of course, keep the current game modes as well.

driesba
4th Aug 2014, 20:22
Infected:
7 start as human, 1 as Vampire.
Vampire tries to infect all to become Vampire.

Dead End:
Humans need to follow a certain parcour and hold small 'bases' before going to the next.
Point is to take those 'bases' and reach the end in the smallest time possible.
Fastest team wins.
(Update): Vampires (re)spawn on the next non-taken 'base', humans (re)spawn on the last point taken.

GaS (Grapple a Sentinel):
Humans get themselves some grappling power!
Vampires are all Sentinels.
Title Explains all.
(Update): Can be a CTF game, while humans need to grapple, vampires can pick up players too.

Offspring:
Vampires aren't on the hunt this time!
They will need to defend their precious Offsprings whilst humans need to destroy it as quickly as possible,
since it gives a powerful buff to the vampires!


These are just ideas, if another Thread made like this, I'm sorry, if not, it's time to post your ideas here!
Last I want to thank the devs for this wonderful game -for a Beta it's so clean!-

Fatte Wok

Lord_Aevum
4th Aug 2014, 20:38
Infected:
7 start as human, 1 as Vampire.
Vampire tries to infect all to become Vampire.

Poor guy. He wouldn't even be able to stand after siring all those fledglings at once. :(

Morgiahs
6th Aug 2014, 19:54
Hello all, I've had an idea for a new mode and wanted it run it past the community.

It's a sort of variation to the current siege mode, basically the premise is that there are a number of furnaces on the map belching out smoke to block out the sun. The Human side must find these furnaces and destroy them while the Vamp side must capture them and prevent them from being damaged within the time limit.

10 -20 minutes each round, 5,000 to 10,000 HP each furnace depending on balancing. If the humans destroy each furnace within the time limit a search and destroy phase will begin with all vampire in the area begin to be slowly incinerated but can take sanctuary in safe zones. If the Vampires capture and defend each furnace within the time limit the furnaces become unbreakable and a search and destroy phase for the remaining humans begins.

During each variation of Search and Destroy phase, the phase lasts for 60 seconds and if a player is killed during this time they are unable to respawn. In this way it's quite possible for the loosing team to snatch victory by eliminating the winning team.