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LegacyOfKayn
15th Mar 2014, 16:56
The reaver is a little OP I'll tell u why:
1.The Pounce abillity is almost impossible to dodge,if a reaver pounces in front of u it doesn't matter if u dodge right or right,it still catches u.The only way to escape it is if he pounces from the left or right side and u are running cuz it's harder to aim.
2.The Evasion is again kinda OP cuz it has 100% dodge arrow chanse...no abillity should have 100% success chanse,if a reaver has low hp just uses that and runs away and it's quite hard to hit a reaver with alchemist bombs cuz he's fast and relativley small compared to a turemil and the humans can't keep a primary or secundary abillity just to kill a reaver,i think an 70-80% dodge chanse would be more apropiate.
3.It's a very faceroll class,all u have to do is pounce on an enemy and then use evasion to get away,then he waits till he regenerates or the CD passes and there he goes again,oh yeah and he uses smoke bombs or thoese poison bombs to make the humans leave their camping positions.
In 80% of the matches (from deathmatch,not recruit) all the players go reaver...just because it's very easy 2 play and has really strong abillities.

Varulven
15th Mar 2014, 18:03
Hmmm... I always go reaver because I can't handle the others.
And I don't think he's overpowered because I think he's easy to kill.
Besides: It is a lucky moment for me when I manage a pounce xDDD

LegacyOfKayn
15th Mar 2014, 18:09
When i play reaver i get 4-5 kills in a row but when i play tyrant or sentinel i'm lucky if i get 2...and my main is tyrant:),so it's not that hard to play and i'm not easly killed.
And about the pounce...well maybe u don't have enough experience:) and i was talking just about the front and back pounces,if u try to pounce on an enemy that's running left or right yeah it's quite hard to get.

MarinePikachu
15th Mar 2014, 18:36
Reaver is a good class but I would not say OP.

1.The Pounce abillity is almost impossible to dodge,if a reaver pounces in front of u it doesn't matter if u dodge right or right,it still catches u.The only way to escape it is if he pounces from the left or right side and u are running cuz it's harder to aim.
Feels super easy to dodge actually. I dodge more pounces than actually get hit. When far away it is easy to dodge; when close up, they have to ready pounce. When they are in that position for about a second obviously you know they are ready to pounce. Dodge before they leave the ground and you can then watch them fly past you. If someone is dumb enough to just stand their looking at a reaver right in front of them ready a pounce then maybe they should get pounced

2.The Evasion is again kinda OP cuz it has 100% dodge arrow chanse...no abillity should have 100% success chanse,if a reaver has low hp just uses that and runs away and it's quite hard to hit a reaver with alchemist bombs cuz he's fast and relativley small compared to a turemil and the humans can't keep a primary or secundary abillity just to kill a reaver,i think an 70-80% dodge chanse would be more apropiate.
Evasion is really good but still easy to kill with explosives. I however am not sure if it would work if it didnt evade 100% cuz they already drop in health quite fast against hunters and alch explosives and scouts storm bow. The way I see it is tyrants are capable of escaping due to tankyness, sents are usually in air, that leaves reaver the other close up fighter which is quite squishy.

3.It's a very faceroll class,all u have to do is pounce on an enemy and then use evasion to get away,then he waits till he regenerates or the CD passes and there he goes again,oh yeah and he uses smoke bombs or thoese poison bombs to make the humans leave their camping positions.
Somewhat of a faceroll class but against actual good human teams you cant just pounce and evade away (depends on situation). You can but you will take more damage than the human does even after you regen. Honestly when reavers do this to me I really don't care cuz I know that as long as I don't die in that one hit I can just go to a healing station. The reaver cant heal to full he has to wait for an execution so basically he just gave up a lot of hp for a pointless attack. I usually only pounce/leap and evade out if I found a low hp target that I know I can kill it one hit otherwise its only helping the other team. If smoke and poison were not on reaver, it would have to be on another vamp class cuz vamps will definitely not flush out a good human team from a building.

In 80% of the matches (from deathmatch,not recruit) all the players go reaver...just because it's very easy 2 play and has really strong abillities.
Reaver is easy and has strong abilities but I do not think this makes it OP. It seems OP against not as experienced players but against a good human team, if a team goes all reaver it will not work out usually do to them not being able to initiate a fight like a tyrant can. When I play reaver, the easiest wins for me are when i have a 1 or 2 tyrants on the team cuz then I can jump in.

So, reavers don't feel OP at against experienced players and I actually worry more about a good tyrant cuz they can really mess up a team with all those stuns. They may need to be reworked for lower levels though. Make it slightly harder to use as lower levels but somehow keep the reaver the same for high level of play.

EDIT
Just saw another post of yours and you said you just reached level 10 :(. Shouldn't complain about something being OP when you haven't had much playtime in a game. Like any game, some classes are good early on but with more experience players it evens out later on.

LegacyOfKayn
15th Mar 2014, 18:52
Reaver is a good class but I would not say OP.

1.The Pounce abillity is almost impossible to dodge,if a reaver pounces in front of u it doesn't matter if u dodge right or right,it still catches u.The only way to escape it is if he pounces from the left or right side and u are running cuz it's harder to aim.
Feels super easy to dodge actually. I dodge more pounces than actually get hit. When far away it is easy to dodge; when close up, they have to ready pounce. When they are in that position for about a second obviously you know they are ready to pounce. Dodge before they leave the ground and you can then watch them fly past you. If someone is dumb enough to just stand their looking at a reaver right in front of them ready a pounce then maybe they should get pounced

2.The Evasion is again kinda OP cuz it has 100% dodge arrow chanse...no abillity should have 100% success chanse,if a reaver has low hp just uses that and runs away and it's quite hard to hit a reaver with alchemist bombs cuz he's fast and relativley small compared to a turemil and the humans can't keep a primary or secundary abillity just to kill a reaver,i think an 70-80% dodge chanse would be more apropiate.
Evasion is really good but still easy to kill with explosives. I however am not sure if it would work if it didnt evade 100% cuz they already drop in health quite fast against hunters and alch explosives and scouts storm bow. The way I see it is tyrants are capable of escaping due to tankyness, sents are usually in air, that leaves reaver the other close up fighter which is quite squishy.

3.It's a very faceroll class,all u have to do is pounce on an enemy and then use evasion to get away,then he waits till he regenerates or the CD passes and there he goes again,oh yeah and he uses smoke bombs or thoese poison bombs to make the humans leave their camping positions.
Somewhat of a faceroll class but against actual good human teams you cant just pounce and evade away (depends on situation). You can but you will take more damage than the human does even after you regen. Honestly when reavers do this to me I really don't care cuz I know that as long as I don't die in that one hit I can just go to a healing station. The reaver cant heal to full he has to wait for an execution so basically he just gave up a lot of hp for a pointless attack. I usually only pounce/leap and evade out if I found a low hp target that I know I can kill it one hit otherwise its only helping the other team. If smoke and poison were not on reaver, it would have to be on another vamp class cuz vamps will definitely not flush out a good human team from a building.

In 80% of the matches (from deathmatch,not recruit) all the players go reaver...just because it's very easy 2 play and has really strong abillities.
Reaver is easy and has strong abilities but I do not think this makes it OP. It seems OP against not as experienced players but against a good human team, if a team goes all reaver it will not work out usually do to them not being able to initiate a fight like a tyrant can. When I play reaver, the easiest wins for me are when i have a 1 or 2 tyrants on the team cuz then I can jump in.

So, reavers don't feel OP at against experienced players and I actually worry more about a good tyrant cuz they can really mess up a team with all those stuns. They may need to be reworked for lower levels though. Make it slightly harder to use as lower levels but somehow keep the reaver the same for high level of play.

EDIT
Just saw another post of yours and you said you just reached level 10 :(. Shouldn't complain about something being OP when you haven't had much playtime in a game. Like any game, some classes are good early on but with more experience players it evens out later on.

1.I can dodge pounces 2 but the thing is even if they should pass me they still get me somehow...idk how to explain it,maybe i'm not yet as used to this game as i should.
2.Evasion has 100% arrow dodge chanse while the tyrant's ignore pain has like 70-80% dmg reduce (i can't remember exactlly),the sentinel has the abillity to just take up and fly (but u can still hit him) and the zephonim (that aren't yet playable) have the clone abillity but if u guess right,ur done.So my point is every vamp class has an escape abillity but that abillity has a downside,the reaver's doesn't,that is why it seems a little op to me (that's just my opinion maybe i'm rong)
3.If the reaver isn't op then why does every1 play it instead of the tyrant (witch according to u is better)? In every match u see like 3/4 players go reaver...very rare u see 2/4.

Elpheleth
15th Mar 2014, 21:00
Mostly because you need the dmg. Tyrants and Sentinels rather act like disruptors while the Reaver (though he has shadow bomb) is meant to kill the scattered targets.... imho

Tureil
15th Mar 2014, 21:19
The reaver is a little OP I'll tell u why:
2.The Evasion is again kinda OP cuz it has 100% dodge arrow chanse...no abillity should have 100% success chanse,if a reaver has low hp just uses that and runs away and it's quite hard to hit a reaver with alchemist bombs cuz he's fast and relativley small compared to a turemil and the humans can't keep a primary or secundary abillity just to kill a reaver,i think an 70-80% dodge chanse would be more apropiate.


It doesnt have 100% dodge chance for every Human attack.. And just about every class has secondaries that will kill an Evading Reaver. For clarification: Regular projectiles don't do squat while Evasion's happening. Further clarification: I mean things like plain ol' Hunter bolts or un-explosive Scout arrows. Anything that has aoe/splash damage will. So, the Alchemist's Handcanon rounds will hurt a Reaver on the run. As will a Scout's explosive arrows (aim for their feet as they run, and hope the explosive has time to go off on them)

Hunters have many secondaries that can harm a fleeing Reaver. My personal favorite is the classic Explosive Shot. Grenades, I imagine, will have the same effect.

Scouts have their arrow rain ability that they start out with -- It doesnt do full damage (Reavers get reduced damage from AOE, but it still hurts while Evading) but if they hang around theyre still losing blood. I imagine the Trap, Turret, and so on have the same effect.

From personal experience I couldn't tell ya if the Alchemists stuff (Flamethrower, flame wall, Light Bomb) will harm a Reaver, as I generally dont hang around long enough to find out when I use Evasion, and all i hear are their handcanons going off behind me.

Moving on:


3.It's a very faceroll class,all u have to do is pounce on an enemy and then use evasion to get away,then he waits till he regenerates or the CD passes and there he goes again,oh yeah and he uses smoke bombs or thoese poison bombs to make the humans leave their camping positions.

I would call it the Hunter of the vampires, frankly. It's the middle ground class. You need some patience with the Turelim to understand that while they're meaty, they're not full-blown Tanks unless they have teammates there to keep the focus fire from focusing on them.

Sentinels are a great class, but squishy, and if a coordinated team expects them...They're easy targets. Reavers are the middle-ground, as I've said. However...

Reckless Reavers who use the Pounce/Savage Pounce attack on someone who isnt lagging behind their group take a tremendous risk of being blown apart by focus firing teammates, assuming the teammates are paying any sort of bloody attention to their comrades. I suppose people are happy with this sort of risk until they get the side-grade abilities. My personal favorite is Leap Attack.

The smoke bombs and Haze-bombs are there because without it, Humans would have very little reason to remain out in the open. They would hang out inside buildings, backs to the wall, guns at the door, and laugh as vampires got turned to pincushions....And then you'd just be here *****ing there's no way to break the camps.

Pay close attention when you hear something that sounds like glass breaking. Make a habit of immediately dodge-rolling away. It'll save your life more often than not. If the reavers are relying on Haze to do damage, and not pouncing, be glad. It means there're fewer vampires to worry about as the Reavers wait for cooldowns. The bombs are easy to dodge once you pay attention.


Anyway I've jawed on enough here.

MarinePikachu
15th Mar 2014, 22:18
3.If the reaver isn't op then why does every1 play it instead of the tyrant (witch according to u is better)? In every match u see like 3/4 players go reaver...very rare u see 2/4.

like stated before, reaver is the easiest to play well that is why everyone plays it. Plus without a team that follows up, Tyrants will just die. Thus people don't play Tyrants if nobody is gonna help and follow up. AKA lower levels. I also never stated Tyrants were OP. I said a good tyrant is more scary than a reaver. In addition, basing OPness should not be done on how much a character is played.

Razaiim
15th Mar 2014, 22:59
The reaver isn't OP. It is the easiest class to learn, much like the hunter. Now that only two initial classes are available at start, and decent Tyrant play is hard to pull off, coupled with current Sentinel issues (I mained sent through all of alpha but had to switch to reaver for beta) it became much more common.

You only find it annoying because what a lot of reaver players do is just pounce/evade and spam choking haze, which is one of the worst ways to play reaver, for the reasons Marine explained earlier. If a reaver pounces, the stun and damage can be interrupted by doing damage to the reaver, or any kind of stun/cc. Add that to the damage he can take while evading (described below), and the Reaver ends up taking a lot of damage he can't regen from, while the human can quickly hit up a heal pad while his team covers him.

Skilled reaver players will use smoke or choking haze disorient humans while you and your team engage. You can either charge pounce (make sure to pick a target quickly, and don't wait for that perfect shot, just go) or drop down and start swinging When I play reaver I run savage pounce (still working on it), shadow bomb and haste, with the playstyle above, and can mount better damage with similar K/D to reavers that pounce in and evade out and throw poison all game.

Evade is 100% dodge because dice roll mechanics in a game like this are awful. That's why some players are against spread on hunters. Evade alss reduces all AoE and DoT effects by 75%. All handcannon, fire wall, flame wall, light bomb, sunlight vial, Explosive shot, blinding shot, grenade, sticky grenade, Storm Bow explosions, Volley, turret and trap will all affect a reaver during evade, and the poison bola DoT remains if it is broken by evade. So he isn't totally immune, and can still take heavy damage. If he tries the same thing again then it will be certain death for him.

Ygdrasel
16th Mar 2014, 00:41
The reaver is a little OP I'll tell u why:
1.The Pounce abillity is almost impossible to dodge,if a reaver pounces in front of u it doesn't matter if u dodge right or right,it still catches u.The only way to escape it is if he pounces from the left or right side and u are running cuz it's harder to aim.
2.The Evasion is again kinda OP cuz it has 100% dodge arrow chanse...no abillity should have 100% success chanse,if a reaver has low hp just uses that and runs away and it's quite hard to hit a reaver with alchemist bombs cuz he's fast and relativley small compared to a turemil and the humans can't keep a primary or secundary abillity just to kill a reaver,i think an 70-80% dodge chanse would be more apropiate.
3.It's a very faceroll class,all u have to do is pounce on an enemy and then use evasion to get away,then he waits till he regenerates or the CD passes and there he goes again,oh yeah and he uses smoke bombs or thoese poison bombs to make the humans leave their camping positions.
In 80% of the matches (from deathmatch,not recruit) all the players go reaver...just because it's very easy 2 play and has really strong abillities.

1. A frontal pounce can be interrupted. I've shot down many a Reaver with flaming shot. And "almost impossible" isn't impossible. Tyrant's charge is a pain to dodge too but hardly OP.

2. Give chase as a Hunter/Scout, or fire bombs as an alchemist. "It's quite hard" doesn't mean jack: Get better at it.

3. "The Reaver won't let me camp, I don't like it!" ...Yeah, no. If camping is a valid tactic then breaking camp is a valid tactic as well. And a Reaver is designed largely for hit-and-run tactics. He's MEANT to evade. Chase him down or kill him before he escapes. AoE and explosives still hurt an evading Reaver.

4. "Players use the Reaver a lot!" ...Okay, so what? I've never seen a full team of Reavers. (And the word you want is "to"..."2" is a number. Pet peeve.)


The Reaver isn't OP.

Khalith
16th Mar 2014, 02:13
The Reaver isn't OP.

Nope it isn't, but 4 of them with poison and smoke bombs are damn annoying! Yes that's happened to me.

LegacyOfKayn
16th Mar 2014, 10:22
1. A frontal pounce can be interrupted. I've shot down many a Reaver with flaming shot. And "almost impossible" isn't impossible. Tyrant's charge is a pain to dodge too but hardly OP.

2. Give chase as a Hunter/Scout, or fire bombs as an alchemist. "It's quite hard" doesn't mean jack: Get better at it.

3. "The Reaver won't let me camp, I don't like it!" ...Yeah, no. If camping is a valid tactic then breaking camp is a valid tactic as well. And a Reaver is designed largely for hit-and-run tactics. He's MEANT to evade. Chase him down or kill him before he escapes. AoE and explosives still hurt an evading Reaver.

4. "Players use the Reaver a lot!" ...Okay, so what? I've never seen a full team of Reavers. (And the word you want is "to"..."2" is a number. Pet peeve.)


The Reaver isn't OP.

U totally missed the subject and didn't got enything of what i said.
1.Yes i've shot reavers pouncing 2,that doesn't mean it's an alternative to dodging,it's more of a luck thing.
2.That "I'ts quite hard" i said,i said it because i don't want to be an ******* and say that if a reaver climbs a building,ur alchemist bombs are exactly crap,and most skilled reavers climb buildings when wanting to escape.
3.What the **** was that? U think i was complaining because they don't let humans camp? Exactly the oposit i meant that's a good thing but they use it just so that they can spamm pounce and evasion again,try 2 think a little before starting trolling ok?
4.If u never saw a team full of reavers then maybe u never played at deathmatch,and yes if every1 plays reaver it's clearley that,that class is op (in this case is the easyest).

I've seen alot of u saying about the secundary abillityes that because a reavers can't dodge that with evasion that makes the abillity not OP...WTF? The tyrants still take dmg from thoese abillitis,the sentinels still can be hit witl thoese abillities after takeoff,so that's not an argument.Every class still takes dmg from secundary abillities after using their..."escape move" the only difference is that the tyrants and sentinels take dmg from arrows 2,the reaver don't,and i get that's how the abillity should work,that it's MENT to todge arrows just not 100% of them...an 80% i think it's enough.
If i play Tyrant and use ignore pain at 200-300 hp,i still die,if i play Reaver and use Evasion at 100 hp i escape...see the problem?

PlagueMaster
16th Mar 2014, 12:38
Nope it isn't, but 4 of them with poison and smoke bombs are damn annoying! Yes that's happened to me.

4 Scouts with Stormbows is more annoying, believe me.

Omhxyz
16th Mar 2014, 14:04
4 poison/smoke is annoying for sure, but its not a winner setup as reavers are the worst initiators in the game they get wrecked against a good human team without a tyrant to save the day. If you gonna argue about class stacking; 4 of any other class is A LOT MORE annoying to deal with compared to reavers, not to mention you have to switch class to deal with them while you can play whatever you want against a reaver team.

And how you get away with 100 hp? :( Anything below 300 is lethal with evasion on, i even died once at 700 hp while in evasion. Even if the skill was op (which isn't really), adding "luck" factor to a skill sounds like a terrible idea.

LegacyOfKayn
16th Mar 2014, 15:26
Well i just used evasion and climbed a buillding:)) no bomb touched me and i don't think they had any secundary skills (witch is what i said in the first post that no1 keeps secundary skills just to kill a reaver).
As for the "luck factor" well...the sentinel has that 1 cuz after he uses takeoff he can always get shot...the tyrant the same sience he doesn't have 100% dmg reducetion on ignore pain...why should the reaver be any different?


Ok now this is ridiculous,3 times in a row the vamp team goes full reaver with savage pounce and that poison bomb,they drop the bomb on a human and savage pounces on that human and he dies right there...they killed a human with 2 abillities,no other class can do that,if THAT'S not OP idk what is.And after the kills they just run away with evasion till the cd is done and here we go again...this class needs nerfing.

Omhxyz
16th Mar 2014, 18:05
So many wrongs in your post :(. You are comparing A TANK to finisher class with much less hp. Tyrant is there to tank the hits, not actually get the kills if he is running ignore pain... It's mainly a tanking ability where you absorb damage and block friendly units so they don't take as much damage. If you check the profile stats you can confirm my point; there is a stat count for "ignore pain absorbed damage" or something.

Pounce is easy to avoid, like EXTREMELY easy if you know where the reaver is, which you should. Choking haze even easier to avoid. If you getting hit by 1 of those; you are probably in a bad position or failed to dodge. You getting pounced full duration? You stay with your team and they help you with that. You got hit by both? Might as well die already then... They are running away with evasion? How about some aoe damage? It's an instant kill with any of the direct-aoe damage skills if he is below 200 hp.

Again, 4 reavers not really a good setup. Had 4 games like that today, lost them all eventho we did good, it's simply unwinable against a semi-good team when you got no initiation.

You just having a bad day with the teams, try again a little later :P.

LegacyOfKayn
16th Mar 2014, 19:22
So many wrongs in your post :(. You are comparing A TANK to finisher class with much less hp. Tyrant is there to tank the hits, not actually get the kills if he is running ignore pain... It's mainly a tanking ability where you absorb damage and block friendly units so they don't take as much damage. If you check the profile stats you can confirm my point; there is a stat count for "ignore pain absorbed damage" or something.

Pounce is easy to avoid, like EXTREMELY easy if you know where the reaver is, which you should. Choking haze even easier to avoid. If you getting hit by 1 of those; you are probably in a bad position or failed to dodge. You getting pounced full duration? You stay with your team and they help you with that. You got hit by both? Might as well die already then... They are running away with evasion? How about some aoe damage? It's an instant kill with any of the direct-aoe damage skills if he is below 200 hp.

Again, 4 reavers not really a good setup. Had 4 games like that today, lost them all eventho we did good, it's simply unwinable against a semi-good team when you got no initiation.

You just having a bad day with the teams, try again a little later :P.

Ur right mostly yes i have been cought but the poison bomb and savage pounce,i was with my team but no1 did anything...maybe they were begginers and it was a 4 reaver team 1 of them dropend the bomb and the other pounced...sience no1 helped i died but still it's death in 2 abillities.But again ur right u can't compare the dmg of a tyrant with that of a reaver so maybe it's ok.
But the main problem is that evasion...no1 uses that at 200-300 hp..they use it at 600-700 and it's no way to hit a reaver with like 3-4 alchemist bombs in a row.And then they just use evasion,wait for the cds and go again,it's just very frustrating to keep playing only vs reavers...this game gets old quick with that...maybe it'll be better when the other classes get released.

WhiteFlameKyo
16th Mar 2014, 19:38
Well i just used evasion and climbed a buillding:)) no bomb touched me and i don't think they had any secundary skills (witch is what i said in the first post that no1 keeps secundary skills just to kill a reaver).

As someone who plays mostly the alchemist I've killed dozens of reavers with evasion on using my bombs and fire walls. Actually, when I see a blue reaver running away I throw a bomb at him almost unconsciously.



if THAT'S not OP idk what is.

Well, I do: scouts and hunters. No need to thank me.



And after the kills they just run away with evasion till the cd is done and here we go again....

Yeah, and while the evasion is active humans are safe to heal. I died as a reaver many, many times because of that.

LegacyOfKayn
16th Mar 2014, 19:42
Yeah, and while the evasion is active humans are safe to heal. I died as a reaver many, many times because of that.

Then maybe the rest of ur team was sleaping or something if they let a dying human go heal:)
And can u tell me why scouts and hunters are op?

888Demon888
18th Mar 2014, 19:39
With Alpha to Betha update and turned off auto aim reaver became pice of .... all what he can do now it's caress humans

PencileyePirate
19th Mar 2014, 05:52
Ok now this is ridiculous,3 times in a row the vamp team goes full reaver with savage pounce and that poison bomb,they drop the bomb on a human and savage pounces on that human and he dies right there...they killed a human with 2 abillities,no other class can do that,if THAT'S not OP idk what is.And after the kills they just run away with evasion till the cd is done and here we go again...this class needs nerfing.

There's a delay between when he can throw the bomb and leap. Decent humans should be able to avoid this scenario entirely either by not standing in the poison, and/or recognizing they're about to be pounced (easy to tell from hissing with music off.) Once you've gotten pounced, it's already your fault.


... turned off auto aim reaver became pice of .... all what he can do now it's caress humans

He's as effective as ever, just requires some aim to use now.