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CoOkiedude
14th Mar 2014, 14:19
I have a feeling this has been due to the lowering of the autoaim on the vampires side , without any balance adjustments to the actual melee attacks to compensate for that. I just had 6 maybe 8 games in a row where the humans would absolutely decimate vampires BOTH rounds. And it wasn't even close.Yesterday it wasn't horrible but it was apparent. I'm not talkin 30-25 I'm talking 30-15 , 30-18 scores like that. And then we would switch teams and the exact same thing would happen. Humans again would DESTROY vampires.

At first I tried to be cool about it, you know "You're doing something wrong" , "It's not your day", "You aren't focusing enough" and then it happened. As always I play a Tyrant as vampire. So I was attacking this Hunter who was attacking me while walking to the left and I saw it. He WALKED out of my melee attack. And I'm talking "WOW THIS DIDN'T JUST HAPPEN" walked. As in , my melee attack grazed him but the aura thingies around your hands that you have when melee attacking touched him.And then it happened again. And again. And again. People WALKING out of melee attacks. So I started thinking " ok so maybe the Tyrant got screwed by this change, let's try something else." . So I picked a Reaver. With haste. You should have seen it. I was trying to hit people and they were -guess what- WALKING out of my attacks as I was desperately trying to control the whirlwind that is a hasted Reaver.

I haven't had this kind of frustration in a while and maybe in the end I'm just a baddie but you know what? I'm proud of my Tyrant play. I am. I worked REALLY hard for it and I know I do well with it. And I felt I was ridiculed by the game these past matches. With the autoaim lowered, combined with how crappy and telegraphed the Tyrant's attacks are and add to that how easy it is to dodge a Charge , I think I will be taking a break from this until it's fixed.

Razaiim
14th Mar 2014, 14:57
Yea I noticed this when I played yesterday, in terms of human teams dominating, but I only played a couple, so I thought it was matchmaker.

This highlights one of the few, if not the only issue I do have with the approach that Psyonix is taking to this game. They are making a number of improvements to how things work, and raising the skill needed to effectively do certain tasks such as abduct and in this case vampire melee which is good, and allows for a differentiation between players due to expression of skill.

BUT BUT BUTT BUT! They are not raising the reward as they increase the difficulty to these perform tasks, just leaving it at the same level, with no compensation. This is a more exasperated issue due to the very narrow balance the developers are currently reporting, and the fact that human skill just translates so much better. Humans get better: they get better at aiming and hit more shots, and this can continue to grow.
With vampires, not so much.

So I think what Psyonix should do is: leave the current new-player friendly elements as they already are, but introduce elements that require more time and experience to master with much higher rewards. The best example of this is the Pounce/Savage pounce dynamic. Once you get good with aiming pounces, there is no reason to continue using it, as Savage pounce aims in the same way, with a similar trajectory, but deals so much more damage. Higher skill = Higher reward, unlike this most recent change, which is Higher Skill = same reward.

As much as I hate to resurrect old threads, I remember Jest had made a very detailed thread about something similar, and gave many ideas that allowed players to express their skill for higher rewards in terms of mobility, aim and damage output for vampires, but still allowed players to play at the same level for the same reward.

Nehemia
14th Mar 2014, 15:04
Yeah its amusing, when you hit 2 K:D with a vampire you go awww yeaaaah. But as a human you're smacking head to the table if your K:D is below 4.

And I've joined the beta yesterday. Humans > Vampires to be quite honest.

killdrith
14th Mar 2014, 15:16
All day yesterday games were genocide for vampires. Considering that before these auto-aim changes vampires were already struggling at the high-levels of play, something certainly needs to be done to make up for the loss in damage. It is very frustrating when somebody is barely moving and managing to avoid being hit by swings that look dead on. I was resorting to relying much much more on skills and cool-downs as they were more sure to cause damage.

cmstache
14th Mar 2014, 15:56
It's funny that this is brought up to me. I've been doing MUCH better, although as a sentinel player lately I have been getting ripped a new one more often than not. But, thinking back, I did have a few melee issues, charge attacks are the worst, and anything close to a wall is an auto-miss.

I want to say part of this is the learning curve, which is to be expected, with auto-aim turned off. (The puncture feels less OP now btw, good job;) ) But, when people walk out of your attacks there's another issue to deal with, but I pretty much expected these issues to happen though. We'll work through it with some tweaks.

CoOkiedude
14th Mar 2014, 16:24
The biggest slap in the face for me is how much the Tyrant is suffering with this change due to his humongous melee attack animations. Now when people run around me in circles like they were before it's impossible for me to try to attack them. I have to roll out and try to do something else. Is that considered "ok"? A hunter dancing in circles around me shooting at me , while I'm trying to get ONE auto in? Or that other thing , especially with experienced players. When the Tyrant starts attacking you , during the end of the 1st melee and the beginning of the 2nd you roll through them and you break their face until they recover from the whiffed attack and can turn around to hit you. Is this alright?

BTW for those that don't know me please excuse my "douchey" tone for my posts, I turn into a homunculus when I'm annoyed in terms of balance. I do not mean to offend anyone and of course I welcome criticism. I am simply frustrated.

cmstache
14th Mar 2014, 16:30
The ability to roll through the attack is because the attacks are slow. I consider that a fair trade-off since it has higher damage output per attack. It's always been there. The other classes have that issue too, the reaver is just a bit hard, since it has longer range. That's gotten easier from the auto-aim changes though, people actually have to turn, not just spam it. The sentinel has the same thing, but it's more of between attacks, not at the start of one. The reason is because it's just soooo quick to land that hit. It's tougher to get through him. The tyrant's is just the most glaring and easiest to pick up on.

PencileyePirate
14th Mar 2014, 17:02
I have no problems controlling vampires and hitting melee attacks with the newly reduced auto-aim. In fact, I love the change, because it feels like my character is more responsive to my controls.

TLDR; vampires aren't broken.

CoOkiedude
14th Mar 2014, 17:06
I meant the roll specifically for the Tyrant. I don't mind for other classes because their melees are faster and recover faster. Also I'm fairly certain the Tyrant's attacks do the same damage per hit except for the 3rd attack which does a little more than other vampires'. When the gameplay is fast in general , slow telegraphed attacks are punished very easily. And that's the entire problem really. What's the point of trying to attack someone who is attacking you back if they can force you to either attack once and roll, or risk whiffing and dying horribly or losing 2/3 of your health because of it.

PencileyePirate
14th Mar 2014, 17:13
Tyrant walk speed may be slow, but he has plenty of options to get away. Roll speed also seems fine. I'm not sure what the problem is, but it sounds like you just need to practice with Tyrant more.

Khalith
14th Mar 2014, 17:18
I noticed the same issue playing tyrant yesterday where I was dead on with my swing but the human inched a little bit to the side and the attack failed. Several full charge attacks that should have hit missed, it really frustrated me until I learned to compensate for it, the best suggestion I could make though, is give the vamps a little larger of a hit box, not a large increase, but 10-15% at most.

XJadeDragoonX
14th Mar 2014, 17:18
Its a little of both. I think what it really comes down to is latency. We have all experienced being a vampire and slashing at someone and somehow even though our hits are dead on, they somehow dont deal damage. Its probably the connection between players thats screwing it up

CoOkiedude
14th Mar 2014, 17:19
Tyrant walk speed may be slow, but he has plenty of options to get away. Roll speed also seems fine. I'm not sure what the problem is, but it sounds like you just need to practice with Tyrant more.

I talked specifically about the attack animation. In fact extensively. The "roll" part I mentioned was connected to my earlier post about people rolling through your attacks. And I have practiced plenty with the Tyrant, otherwise I wouldn't be here making posts about how things work.

DeputyPotato
14th Mar 2014, 17:37
I"m with Cookie attacks miss when they absolutely shouldn't due tot the tyrants attack animation I've noticed it a lot.

RainaAudron
14th Mar 2014, 17:46
Yeah, the new changes to the melee make the hits really miss a lot when they shouldn´t.. it is frustrating :/ I also keep going through people with Sentinel when trying to abduct them... Noticed humans win much more now as vamp effectiveness is lower since the update.

Hugbringer
14th Mar 2014, 17:49
I'm still undecided about the changes from the few matches I played. Though the old days of vampire circling and human dominance seem likely again. I'm okay with wanting to make it harder for vamps to Kamikaze people with melee spam, but the current changes I'm undecided about without some other balances that I'll have to think more on and experiment with. Missing just once now means death against even moderate players.

Just reducing melee ranges might have worked better maybe? Or removed the whole 'Roll-melee' ability for vamps to catch humans sprinting away. Would it be possible to have vamps just swing freely except for charge attacks, while moving? Somehow I'm guessing thats already been considered and cut for some reason :-)

I'll keep playing and post my opinions.

Wobbley
14th Mar 2014, 18:10
Played Tyrant all day today and yesterday. It is a bit harder now, but I still do fine. The Tyrant is perhaps a bit more affected due to his slower attack speed. I think the bigger problem is that the hit reg seems to be more noticeable now, and seems a bit inconsistent to me. Like I can have what looks to me like two identical situations and attacks: one hits, the other misses.

Yes rolling away from the tyrant is much easier now, perhaps even running away is. The difference now is that you can't mindlessly just spam the hit button with with a tyrant, you need to run up to them then hit, or wait for them to roll needlessly. I think attack speed plays a big role on how this affects the different classes, as I have had no problems with the Sentinel really, feels almost identical.

I would perhaps up it slightly more, because they should not be able to get away by just sprinting, rolling should be a must.

Psyonix_Corey
14th Mar 2014, 18:51
It's certainly possible now that the auto aim is less pronounced, we will need to address hitbox consistency or augment skilled vampire players in some other way. Your feedback is noted and appreciated, positive and negative.

CoOkiedude
14th Mar 2014, 19:15
It's certainly possible now that the auto aim is less pronounced, we will need to address hitbox consistency or augment skilled vampire players in some other way. Your feedback is noted and appreciated, positive and negative.

You don't know how much I appreciate your response to this thread.Really. Thank you!

cmstache
14th Mar 2014, 19:38
The issue it more with hit detection than it is the auto aim. We've been discussing it and that's the general consensus.

killdrith
14th Mar 2014, 19:50
I think that the two directly correlate. Auto aim accounted for latency issues, and now that we don't have as much, making interpretations of where opponents actually are without assistance is a pain. I think that a world without latency would make this amount of auto aim ideal, but hitting the current hit boxes with present levels of mobility and lag produces confusion for newer players and frustration for both new and old.

TheMalgot
14th Mar 2014, 20:14
Glad i'm not the only one who noticed it.
I'm absolutely with CookieDude about this. Vamps, and i think especially sentinels, are kinda useless now.

Humans are still ok, though.

Angelos_Sanguinum
14th Mar 2014, 20:46
It's certainly possible now that the auto aim is less pronounced, we will need to address hitbox consistency or augment skilled vampire players in some other way. Your feedback is noted and appreciated, positive and negative.
Yes, maybe hitboxes are too small and or they went off, they are different from the animation.

Khalith
14th Mar 2014, 21:53
Yes, maybe hitboxes are too small and or they went off, they are different from the animation.

I think giving the hitbox an increase should sort out the issue.

cmstache
15th Mar 2014, 02:43
It's a combination of auto-aim and hit detection that's the issue. Strike can really explain it better than I can though.

HereticSage
15th Mar 2014, 03:49
I did have an easier time as hunter today (vampires were a bit more erratic, so I had a harder time as alchemist), but I actually didn't notice that huge of a difference as a vampire. While in EU, I did have the missing when I thought I was hitting issue, but not in NA. And once aim assist still screwed me. -.- But overall, I noticed rolls meant something now. And Tyrant without charge do seem to have issues catching humans running directly away (unless your opponent is too dumb to gauge the trajectory of jump, which I usually don't try), but they always seemed to have this issue, so that's nothing new. I play Tyrant more often than anything else because so few people will play it, so I don't really have feedback on other classes.

Razaiim
16th Mar 2014, 01:37
Ok got some more hard play time in: Vampire attacks are just outright not registering: Case in point, I'm using haste and a scout ran out of arrows so he melees me. Neither of us are moving. 5/7 of my attacks do not deal damage and he wins, and I know they are hitting because I'm not lunging way past him.

cmstache
16th Mar 2014, 01:40
LOL, it DID seem to be worse today. Charge attacks are the pits atm.

Omhxyz
16th Mar 2014, 03:27
I can confirm that for non-haste reaver as well, soooo many attacks not getting registered. Charged or non charged its a miss 1/4 of the time when it shouldn't.

Razaiim
16th Mar 2014, 03:38
Also, has anyone else noticed that volley works properly? Before patch, if part of the radius was in an area where it wouldn't occur, i.e indoors then the damage wouldn't happen at all, and if part of the radius was on a higher plane from where the knife landed, then the higher plane wouldn't experience damage.
Well know all that works, and makes volley really REALLY good.

Also couple other things I noticed:
A player on our team had 4 assists, but we had no kills, and as the match progressed, his assists were always higher than our kills on team. Are assists awarded for anything besides kills?

A reaver used leap attack and hit me dead on. I was shunted sideways, but took no damage, and he kept sailing past me, apparently aim-assist issues affecting leap as well>

CoOkiedude
17th Mar 2014, 00:50
Can you tweak the auto-aim back to where it was last patch until you have something solid without it? I can't describe to you how frustrating this change is and how beyond me it is, that you would let it stay on live servers for more than two days.I'm not gonna pretend that I know how developing a game works but when something CLEARLY doesn't work , why keep it in?

cmstache
17th Mar 2014, 01:15
Ideally, they will have a fix next update... but, hopefully that's not too wishful.

XJadeDragoonX
17th Mar 2014, 03:08
yeah being a vampire sucks now... well i shouldnt say sucks. but it really sucks constantly slashing at someone right in front of you and not being abl;e to hit them. it seems a majority of the posts are complaints about issues with the vampires being either too weak or the humans certain abilities being too overpowering. Some stuff is about vampire power but if that gets nerfed theres gonna be a serious balance issue

Psyonix_Corey
17th Mar 2014, 16:44
It's been improved internally but I don't know how soon we can get a new build out.

cmstache
17th Mar 2014, 17:00
How did QA not catch that? It's pretty major... Is it similar to the old stormbow bug where you don't notice it without latency?

Psyonix_Corey
17th Mar 2014, 17:01
It's a relatively subtle change unless you're testing for it specifically. A lot of times we rely on QA to look for major issues with new features or basic functionality breaking, not melee becoming unreliable in competitive matches.

Also, it's beta. We know it's frustrating if you guys get stuck with an unbalanced build for a few days but that's part of the gig.

cmstache
17th Mar 2014, 17:25
Makes sense.

Psyonix_Corey
17th Mar 2014, 17:33
We're looking into Sentinel stairs issue and Kidnap interrupts today as well.

cmstache
17th Mar 2014, 17:48
I LOVE YOU!!!!!!

Tube_Reaver
17th Mar 2014, 17:54
Can you also look into dragging corpses? I'm noticing that my vampire gets stuck a lot if there's even a small ledge (say going into a building) and the corpse gets stuck, and I can't move it inside.

Hugbringer
17th Mar 2014, 18:00
So far I don't hate the changes to vamp melee, though it is noticeable and enough of a 'miss generating' change to cause a difference. For me it is the 'circling' you can do around melee spam. I've killed vampires at full life by taking advantage of the changes. I feel more dangerous up close as a human, where as before I had to perform perfectly to win up close.

I like that it did change the skill cap for vamps, but the aim assist on humans plus crowd control being even more effective against vamps when they miss. Its almost as if the 'cone' in front of the vamps doesn't deliver damage till after the attack leap. Where as the collision detection is from the original point of attack activation, resulting in those odd moments of no damage when it clearly appears that you should hit. Fighting near pillars or supports really shows this off as the vamp ends up just hitting corsners and humans are cutting the angle and taking advantage of their aim assist.

cmstache
17th Mar 2014, 18:14
Tube, i've noticed that too.

Hugs, that's the auto-aim.

Razaiim
17th Mar 2014, 19:51
Also, now that volley appears to be fixed in terms of how it works with roofs and such, does anyone else feel like it's mighty strong?

cmstache
17th Mar 2014, 20:44
I don't find it that rough. With the long activation, it's your fault if you're caught by it. I personally find turret far more deadly still.

Harfax
17th Mar 2014, 21:43
The original human hit box was never a problem, it has always been the auto aim.

GenFeelGood
17th Mar 2014, 22:29
Its an adjustment but it seems to be getting better. I've had to switch over to leap attack, surrendering my savage pounce sadly, but its working out well.

The newer guys that skip new recruit, however, aren't coping all that well. They are, now, more effective in the human round than they are as vampires when it use to be reversed. I've been in recent matches where any vampire under under level 7 couldn't land a kill, assist in any more than 5, or reach 3000 in damage dealt. They are still relatively new so you can't really expect a lot out them yet, but I know that has gotta be discouraging.

Hugbringer
18th Mar 2014, 11:19
Hugs, that's the auto-aim.

Oh I know, I just wanted to try and describe some the issues I've noticed with the current auto aim. Previously I had no issues and rarely missed. The aim assist and damage registering just feels disconnected or laggy from each other. It reminds me of Issues that SWToR had with power activation and server response time sometimes causing strange results in regards to when damage was applied.

Deltajugg
18th Mar 2014, 14:53
I completely agree with the mentioned aiming issue, and, despite being a player that favors vampires more, I want to explain to you how did it work from the perspective of a person that already knows the issue and knows how to abuse it.
I usually play Tyrant and Hunter only, but recently I've been trying myself with other classes,and when I tried Reaver I realised that there's some melee issue that I couldn't see on Tyrant, because I rarely have a chance to use a melee attack as one, (especially because playing Tyrant feels more like a cow running into a meat grinder) and thus I tend to focus on my abilities. After my Reaver round I decided to play alchemist, and try to imagine how ridiculous it felt to shoot reavers in the back 6 times in a row with my gun without much effort while he was desperately trying to hit me. I thought that humans were supposed to benefit from long range fights, but be inferior in close range. Well, with these changes that doesn't work anymore, as I found a great tactic to outplay the deadly claw of a vampire.

You walk.

Basically what I did was holding D all the time and maneuvering my mouse so the Reaver stays on target, all of that while shooting him in the back constantly. It was ridiculous.
I personally think that the issue is not human hitbox in this case, it's more about vampires having too "jumpy" of an attack, with its animation being made for the sake of chasing down a fleeing target. It doesn't work in case of fighting with a target that doesn't run from you. Every time a Reaver attacked me, or I attacked as a Reaver, my attack caused me to simply jump over my target. It was not an issue before, because aim assist provided you with some kind of jumping limitations, but now that it's been reduced, vampires are simply jumping around the humans, while (s)he can simply run around in circles to avoid damage and keep shooting him in the back at the same time.

In games similar to Nosgoth, where there's a melee class of some sort, it's usually able to use it's attack while moving/running, and it doesn't trigger any kind of animation. With the attacks of vampires being really jumpy, it's much harder to aim your attacks properly, and practically impossible to use them for their purpose of fighting in close range. I like the idea of providing vampires with some kind of gameplay tweaks so it would require some more skill to hit a human than just "stay close and mash LMB", but the way it is now doesn't seem to work that way, and to be honest with this current system I can't even see a learning curve for proper melee fighting that shooting with human weapons obviously has.

DeathJerky
4th Apr 2014, 20:23
I find it kind of lame that vampires can just left click spam and follow you around everywhere. It'd be more fair if they couldn't auto-aim to you and hit you with it. Maybe give them a normal swipe with left click spam, then charge up to jump at the hunters; or even make them leap ahead with swings just don't make them auto-aim to the target and hit if facing the general direction. Make them have to stay focused on the character, rather than just left-click to win. Game does show promise though, keep up the great work!

PencileyePirate
4th Apr 2014, 20:33
I disagree with what you're saying; vampires do have to aim.

Vampire auto-aim used to be problematic in earlier builds, but it's much nicer now.

SiD_Green
4th Apr 2014, 20:34
You're exaggerating, it's easy enough to dodge the attacks of someone who's just blindly left clicking. It's also not terribly hard to aim the attacks at a slow moving human.

DeathJerky
4th Apr 2014, 20:43
Maybe it's just because I'm terribly new hah, was just giving my first impression of it from playing both sides a bit. Not sure how it was in the past. I'll play with it a bit more and hopefully come to a better conclusion. Thanks for the responses!

Viridian24
4th Apr 2014, 20:57
Also note that vampire melees stagger you for a brief moment and apply a slight slowing effect, so if you get hit once and you try to run away in a straight line, you won't be fast enough, even while sprinting.

rayth3on
4th Apr 2014, 21:34
I have to agree, but there are a few factors to look into. First off the major issue is the hit boxes are too big for humans and so easy to hit for vamps. You can evade as a human all you want, but if the vamp say for example pounced and you evaded, well you can still potentially just get sucked it to the animation of the pounce due to the large hit box.

Another thing, I am from NA and it does not help that there are more EU based servers than NA servers based on MY experience. I have tried countless times waiting in NA and it's like a ghost town, but I almost always get into a match on EU. So ping can also play a huge factor it this as well. Considering that those with lower ping will indeed have an edge especially evading. Those 2 issues should be looked in to an addressed.

Viridian24
4th Apr 2014, 21:45
I have to agree, but there are a few factors to look into. First off the major issue is the hit boxes are too big for humans and so easy to hit for vamps. You can evade as a human all you want, but if the vamp say for example pounced and you evaded, well you can still potentially just get sucked it to the animation of the pounce due to the large hit box.

Another thing, I am from NA and it does not help that there are more EU based servers than NA servers based on MY experience. I have tried countless times waiting in NA and it's like a ghost town, but I almost always get into a match on EU. So ping can also play a huge factor it this as well. Considering that those with lower ping will indeed have an edge especially evading. Those 2 issues should be looked in to an addressed.

The thing is, Humans usually have opportunities to poke down and do some damage to vampires before they get in close, and Humans also have versatile kits. If there was a Reaver attacking you, and you were trying to run away, would it make a difference if he was hit by a Scout before he engaged and now he's at half HP? Or an allied Alchemist throws down their fire and you can sit in it and straight-up fight him melee? Or a Hunter uses their Bola so the Reaver has to either take the damage until it breaks, or use an escape move and disengage, or be unable to attack for several seconds.

I have to agree with you on the server issue. They just fixed the region select though, so hopefully you can get NA servers 100% of the time. No more "1/8 waiting for more players... screw it, shove him into that EU room there."

Emjay86
5th Apr 2014, 13:57
I actually feel its fairly balanced right now. The only time I had noticed a potential imbalance was when the vampire team decided 4 sentinels was the way to go. It was like a bunch of seagulls stealing ice cream from a kid.

That said it may just be the fact that we werent exactly sure how to react/counter the flying rats.

PencileyePirate
9th Apr 2014, 18:11
I actually feel its fairly balanced right now. The only time I had noticed a potential imbalance was when the vampire team decided 4 sentinels was the way to go. It was like a bunch of seagulls stealing ice cream from a kid.

That said it may just be the fact that we werent exactly sure how to react/counter the flying rats.

4 scouts. ;)

ICantPauseItMom
9th Apr 2014, 18:27
I honestly don't see much of an issue humans vs vampires.
Few issues I DO see tho is:
Vampires attack jump out a bit to much, even if they are blind by that light bomb, spamming attacks normally still gets him hits.
Humans:
Attacks that look like they miss still hit, this probably has to do with latency and how they set it up to prevent it from making to much of a impact on the game. Also scouts are a bit to good...

Turel2
13th Apr 2014, 21:27
The Tyrants are in a bad place atm. Getting into combat and actually doing some damage is a big issue.

PencileyePirate
27th Apr 2014, 13:13
The Tyrants are in a bad place atm. Getting into combat and actually doing some damage is a big issue.

Disagree, you just need to know when to engage and when to pop ignore pain and get outta dodge. Playing with enrage is a little trickier, but still entirely viable.

edit: On second thought, sometimes I do think they could use a very slight buff to movement speed.

XJadeDragoonX
6th May 2014, 00:23
it doesnt matter what strategy you implement as a tyrant. At this stage in development there is no reason why an entire team should not be reaver. Tyrant has to get in and get out and be strategic in order to be effective and i feel like thats now how the character was designed to work. The sentinel is an easy target for high level players and is pretty ineffective. the deceiver is good but if youre gonna be a class that has to be sneaky and get close, might as well be reaver.

When you face human teams there is diversity. In almost every game there is at least one of every class on the human team because its completely viable. The characters complement one another very well. But the reaver is just a safe character. Can use choking haze, savage pounce someone, than instantly use evasion upon exiting the pounce and by doing so you do maximum damage with minimal threat. And there isnt really a counter to the reaver because he can easily be a hit and run character and hits so hard and fast. why be the slow giant target tyrant when you have much better crowd control as the reaver. until they make the other characters worth being, this game might as well be humans vs reavers.

Scourgefrost
20th May 2014, 01:02
BTW for those that don't know me please excuse my "douchey" tone for my posts, I turn into a homunculus when I'm annoyed in terms of balance. I do not mean to offend anyone and of course I welcome criticism. I am simply frustrated.

This is me when theres balance issues as well or something "unfair".

Khalith
20th May 2014, 01:30
With the nerfs to hunter and scout I feel the vampires are in a much better place now overall. Reaver still needs some nerfs to survivability and Tyrant could use some new abilities, but besides that I like where the balance is heading.

cmstache
20th May 2014, 01:33
I still don't see how people can't survive with a reaver. All the tools are there. What I personally think is happening is that Reavers are now starting to get to the point where they die just as much as other classes, so the players of them feel they are getting nerfed to the ground when in actuality it's evening out (for the most part). Meanwhile, the humans can still vaporize any vampire i less than a couple seconds.....

Prime_Abstergo
20th May 2014, 06:56
I still don't see how people can't survive with a reaver. All the tools are there. What I personally think is happening is that Reavers are now starting to get to the point where they die just as much as other classes, so the players of them feel they are getting nerfed to the ground when in actuality it's evening out (for the most part). Meanwhile, the humans can still vaporize any vampire i less than a couple seconds.....
I've noticed that I die a lot as a HASTE-reaver... because of Sweeping Kick nerf. Yes I may be top-damage dealer but I am also getting "MAIN FEEDER PRIZE" :mad: It was my main loadout these days "kick+haste" but now I am... kinda forced to take Leap instead of Kick. What can I say? This loadout have to kill enemies with just bare hands because grenade.. well smoke is obviously better for haste-reaver and when engaging I also getting smacked by some hunter camping from the flank or by crazy alchemsits who also camping inside buildings... Iam talking about only PROs (as I destroy 10lvl noob PUGs with 20/0 KD).

Any advice how can I survive w/o switching "F" slot?

cmstache
20th May 2014, 14:19
Haste reaver vs the other two isn't the same thing. You're trading killing power for survivability, as such, you SHOULD die more. I run leap/smoke/haste w/ bloodlust with my haste build though.

zyksor
2nd Jun 2014, 18:27
I think it would be fine if the general melee damage would be buffed. I mean well palyed humans are really in advantage atm.

It usually takes some health to get to the humans (which spawn as a group which is already a huge advantage) and when you finally reach them they have a good chance to own you in close combat with dodge moves and all those disables. Getting close isn't that rewarding for vampires anymore and except for the Alcehmist all human classes have a ridicoulous long range and accuracy. I Mean I understnad that the Scout is supposed to be a sniper, but the Hunter and the PRophet are badass on long range as well, while the Alchemist conitnously spawns and controls close rooftops...

Sanguise23
2nd Jun 2014, 21:25
humans only spawn as a group if all we killed and no vamps around first spawned, many times i have spawned across the map from teammates