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View Full Version : New Build (March 13th 2014) - Patch Notes



Monkeythumbz
13th Mar 2014, 15:32
Hunter
Crossbows
- Increased the rate of spread and recoil bloom slightly to discourage spray fire (Multibow has no bloom and is unaffected)
Multibow
- Increased rate of fire to bring DPS in-line with other crossbows (was not accounting for burst delay)
Grenade
- Increased “inner radius” of Grenade explosion to make damage more consistent

Scout
Stormbow
- Redistributed damage between impact hit and explosion to encourage Stormbow users to be more accurate with their shots
- Reduced explosion radius of undrawn arrows to 275 (was 350), drawn arrows to 325 (was 350)
War Bow
- Increased fire rate slightly

Reaver
Shadow Bomb
- Clouded vision effect duration now depends on how long you were inside the Shadow Bomb

Tyrant
Ground Slam
- Ability activates and animates slightly faster

Sentinel
Kidnap / Abduct
- Reduced time window Kidnap/Abduct can grab humans after it’s activated
- Disabled forced upward motion when charging up Kidnap/Abduct
- Removed flight constraints while charging up Kidnap/Abduct
- Fixed bug causing Sentinels charging Kidnap/Abduct to be immune to Bola / Knives disable
- Tweaked flight handling when carrying a human and reduced “updraft” to hopefully help Sentinels trying to Kidnap/Abduct out of buildings
- Fixed a bug causing Kidnap/Abduct to ignore its damage break threshold for dropping humans
Echolocation
- Now detects humans who have spawned after Echolocation was activated

Humans
Perks
- Tenacity stun reduction lowered to 20% reduction

Vampires
Melee
- Reduced the strength and angle of melee auto-aim assistance to encourage greater skill requirements on melee attacking

Matchmaking
- Miscellaneous bug fixes

Character materials
- Balanced out all characters to be equally visible at a distance

Levels
- Valeholm, Freeport, and Provance have had their lighting redone to reduce overbloom and to better balance lighting on characters

Thestreetuluv
13th Mar 2014, 15:37
Great jobs guys keep it up!! Hope to see new abilities and classes soonnn!!!

Actually there is one thing i noticed that is not on here...
did we have a small reset on class levels because some of my classes have been reset back to 15 i think

Razaiim
13th Mar 2014, 16:07
Heavy Recurve Bow?

lucinvampire
13th Mar 2014, 16:12
Lots for Sentinel then!

No changes for Alchemist? :D not that she really needs anything...

EDIT: Please tell me the being able to join friends etc is one of the other fixes???????

MasterShuriko
13th Mar 2014, 16:15
awesome!

-Kainh-
13th Mar 2014, 16:15
Updated, but I still can't play for server errors

ZProtoss
13th Mar 2014, 16:29
Matchmaking seems to have some issues. Was just in a game where in addition to not being on the same team as someone in my party, it made the game a 5v3 at the start. Had to rejoin in order to get on the same team as my friend + even out teams.

Psyonix_Corey
13th Mar 2014, 16:32
Heavy Recurve Bow?

sorry, fixed. War Bow. sometimes we use development codenames by accident

cmstache
13th Mar 2014, 17:43
Hunter
Crossbows
- Increased the rate of spread and recoil bloom slightly to discourage spray fire (Multibow has no bloom and is unaffected)
Thank You, well done here.
Multibow
- Increased rate of fire to bring DPS in-line with other crossbows (was not accounting for burst delay)
Well done!
Grenade
- Increased “inner radius” of Grenade explosion to make damage more consistent

Scout
Stormbow
- Redistributed damage between impact hit and explosion to encourage Stormbow users to be more accurate with their shots
- Reduced explosion radius of undrawn arrows to 275 (was 350), drawn arrows to 325 (was 350)
I really like how the charged shot has more spread, nice touch.
War Bow
- Increased fire rate slightly
Only a slight buff, since it still only has 4 rounds. I think this might help a little bit up close, which it needed.

Reaver
Shadow Bomb
- Clouded vision effect duration now depends on how long you were inside the Shadow Bomb
I didn't mind it the way it was, but we'll see how it goes.

Tyrant
Ground Slam
- Ability activates and animates slightly faster
Sweet

Sentinel
Kidnap / Abduct
- Reduced time window Kidnap/Abduct can grab humans after it’s activated
Wonderful, let's see how it goes.
- Disabled forced upward motion when charging up Kidnap/Abduct
As stated in previous posts, I turned that into a benefit, but it hurt in some places too, overall I think it's a neutral change.
- Removed flight constraints while charging up Kidnap/Abduct
Might be worth the extra flight mobility now that I can use it! :)
- Fixed bug causing Sentinels charging Kidnap/Abduct to be immune to Bola / Knives disable
I never seemed to have an issue with dropping them, but OK.
- Tweaked flight handling when carrying a human and reduced “updraft” to hopefully help Sentinels trying to Kidnap/Abduct out of buildings
Been asking since early alpha, let's see if this fixed it. :)
- Fixed a bug causing Kidnap/Abduct to ignore its damage break threshold for dropping humans
If this is the case then I really hope we have a higher window than current to cancel the actual grab. 190 dmg is waaaaay too small.
Echolocation
- Now detects humans who have spawned after Echolocation was activated
:)


Overall, I heard nothing about the stairs. The sentinel is still HIGHLY useless if this isn't fixed. But, I'll give it a shot. :)

Humans
Perks
- Tenacity stun reduction lowered to 20% reduction
Seems good at first glance

Vampires
Melee
- Reduced the strength and angle of melee auto-aim assistance to encourage greater skill requirements on melee attacking
Good, might help with spinning the vamps between targets some too. Does this effect melee based abilities, like puncture, or just melee attacks?
Matchmaking
- Miscellaneous bug fixes
Thoughts and responses inline.

Khalith
13th Mar 2014, 17:53
All of it looks great! Good patch.

Syluxxx
13th Mar 2014, 18:02
sweet

Razaiim
13th Mar 2014, 18:04
I see no mention of some of the things that really ground my gears as a sentinel
- Stairs
- Inexplicable landing, especially when you have visibly connected with someone during kidnap, also healing station landing

but let's try it anyways.

cmstache
13th Mar 2014, 18:58
Thoughts and responses inline.

The lower timer I like, it's back to alpha window after activation, which was nice.


Three sentinel issues that need to be fixed still:

-185 dmg threshold for cancelling grabs is unacceptable. How can the dev team justify having a smaller damage window to cancel than alpha did when they while the grabs have a longer, forced tell. It makes no sense. It's nice having more mobility, but it's useless if they can shoot you with a single, non-charged shot or ability and cancel you. It'd be legitimate, MAYBE, if it didn't also drop you to the ground.

-Still randomly landing when close to the ground. It's mitigated by the fact that I have more mobility during the charge, but with the lower timer it gives less leeway.

-Stairs, again mitigated by the fact that you aren't stuck for 4 seconds, only 1 now. But you still sit there like a sitting duck, and you still land afterwards. Also they better approach angle from the charge mechanic helps, but it's still pretty BS.

Psyonix_Corey
13th Mar 2014, 18:59
The damage threshold is 250 to cancel a kidnap, and isn't a flat 250. Like Reaver Pounce, it's 250 within a short enough time window.

Can you guys explain again what the exact stairs behavior is? Kidnap no longer has a vertical clamp so you should just be able to fly up over them.

cmstache
13th Mar 2014, 19:03
Currently, ANY shot from a sentinel will cancel a grab after activation. I've actually taken less than 185 and landed too. This may be the route of the landing issue then? I can deal 190 damage on ACCIDENT with a scout, and still make someone land, consistently.


Do you think it's possible that the damage doesn't reset when the new ability activates? That seems like a logical place to look.

LOFO1993
13th Mar 2014, 19:14
Good patch, but... the leveling up sound is the most annoying I've ever heard in a video game. :)

Wobbley
13th Mar 2014, 19:23
I have to agree with Sausage here, the damage threshold before canceling the kidnap could use a slight boost. I am not sure if the stairs issue should be left as is now that it is better and look at it as a "skill thing". This is how I feel about stairs as a Sentinel though: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rL81kD44C8E (Thanks to symbolater for the link on Raidcall)

In all seriousness I will get a stairs video to you as soon as steam comes back up.

Razaiim
13th Mar 2014, 19:30
Ok so Official playthrough impressions:
- Crossbow changes: barely noticed a difference, possibly due to the fact I never really went full auto unless it's point blank
- Grenade: I have never seen a single grenade in beta
- Stormbow: I like it so far
- Warbow: barely noticed
- Smoke bomb is nice. Rewards players for not hanging out too long
- Sentinel: I like the allowances for mobility while using the ability. Kidnap window is good, back to old alpha time, it'll take some getting used to with the charge mechanic.
- Damage threshold not canceling kidnap/charge bug: What ever you fixed, something went screwy. I was hit by single bolt from multibow (other two missed, and it was multibow sound, so I'm sure), it was my first hit that life, and it cancelled my abduct and made me fall. I was relatively low to the ground, but was able to continue flying before I hit the ground. Also landing while not under fire seems to be less frequent, but happens often enough.
- Vampire Aim assist, haven't noticed yet. I'll get back to you if I'm ever forced to switch targets right before I kill someone
- Character visiblity: I like that it is more uniform, even vampires are hard to see at times now, not glowing like before.

Also Corey to answer your question about stairs (also includes any slopes or hills, such as the grassy slope up to the bridge in Provance): As a sentinel, if you go to abduct someone, and end up at ground level, and try to chase them up said stairs/slope, you will be come locked in that area until the kidnap ends and you will auto land. You can't travel up past the top step, you can't travel horizontally off them (Tested frequently on Provance hill, I think it's the only one that doesn't have geometry on both sides anyways). You will simply be stuck sliding back and forth on the very top edge of the surface like a pong paddle.

So yes you can fly up the stairs, but you get blocked at what seems to be the upper edge of the geometry. As CMStache said, it's better now that it doesn't last 4seconds, but still a thing.

cmstache
13th Mar 2014, 19:39
Can you guys explain again what the exact stairs behavior is? Kidnap no longer has a vertical clamp so you should just be able to fly up over them.


The issue isn't only when during the grab. I explained it in another post somewhere. even without it activated the maximum climb angle is less than the angle of the stairs. It's literally impossible to go up a slope as steep as the stairs, which is why people are getting stuck. The "angle clamp" is irrelevant because even without that clamp the sentinel can't gain altitude fast enough to get up the stairs.

Razaiim
13th Mar 2014, 19:57
The issue isn't only when during the grab. I explained it in another post somewhere. even without it activated the maximum climb angle is less than the angle of the stairs. It's literally impossible to go up a slope as steep as the stairs, which is why people are getting stuck. The "angle clamp" is irrelevant because even without that clamp the sentinel can't gain altitude fast enough to get up the stairs.

I think you and I are having slightly different issues:
Here's my experience for easy comparison



Also Corey to answer your question about stairs (also includes any slopes or hills, such as the grassy slope up to the bridge in Provance): As a sentinel, if you go to abduct someone, and end up at ground level, and try to chase them up said stairs/slope, you will be come locked in that area until the kidnap ends and you will auto land. You can't travel up past the top step, you can't travel horizontally off them (Tested frequently on Provance hill, I think it's the only one that doesn't have geometry on both sides anyways). You will simply be stuck sliding back and forth on the very top edge of the surface like a pong paddle.

So yes you can fly up the stairs, but you get blocked at what seems to be the outer edges of the geometry. As CMStache said, it's better now that it doesn't last 4seconds, but still a thing.

Psyonix_Corey
13th Mar 2014, 20:14
OK looking into Sentinel issues

cmstache
13th Mar 2014, 20:15
Thanks!

And, I do get stuck at the top like that, but I was explaining the cause of it.

Wobbley
13th Mar 2014, 21:11
Steam was down for ages, a quick video if it helps: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5iDSPbsCeFo (unedited)

It's almost as if hte sentinel loses all momentum and moving the camera up does nothing, he is still stuck once he gets stuck.

Korevas
13th Mar 2014, 22:13
Hunter
Scout
War Bow
- Increased fire rate slightly

Like it. After the nerf to falldamage, the warbow needed a buff, and I do believe it is in a better place now. Although I personally still prefer the default bow because of the really limiting clip size, it is a more reasonable tradeoff now.

Reaver
Shadow Bomb
- Clouded vision effect duration now depends on how long you were inside the Shadow Bomb

Don't like it. Ceing hit by the initial tick or slightly skirting the edges of the smoke bomb is now just barely noticeable in effect, and it wasn't really bad to begin with. Contrary to that, Choking haze has a definite impact on even touching it once, and flushes humans out, or denies areas no matter what. In general, when I know enemy vamps are using CH, I tend to think "Oh *****, poison genade, get the hell out!". When it's smoke bomb it's more like "Oh, smoke bomb. Maybe I should casually stroll out of it. When I feel like it. Eventually. *yawn*"

Suggestion: Unsure. Less visual impairment and maybe a slight accuracy reduction perhaps (and forcing scouts to put down their arrows)? That would encourage it's use for initiating an attack a bit more maybe.

Sentinel
Kidnap / Abduct
- Reduced time window Kidnap/Abduct can grab humans after it’s activated
- Disabled forced upward motion when charging up Kidnap/Abduct
- Removed flight constraints while charging up Kidnap/Abduct
- Fixed bug causing Sentinels charging Kidnap/Abduct to be immune to Bola / Knives disable
- Tweaked flight handling when carrying a human and reduced “updraft” to hopefully help Sentinels trying to Kidnap/Abduct out of buildings
- Fixed a bug causing Kidnap/Abduct to ignore its damage break threshold for dropping humans
Echolocation
- Now detects humans who have spawned after Echolocation was activated

*Love* the loss of "autopilot" throughout all phases, and like less floor swooping. Not convinced about the timing. Personally, I still think telegraphing the attack like that makes him too vulnerable against good humans, although I can see why it's needed against bad ones, who have trouble hitting a moving target from that angle to begin with. In general, there will be less "precharging" around corners and more flying straight at a target which is just begging for being shot down. Suggestion: Maybe I'm alone with it, but I really liked the alpha way of picking people up. If we can't have that back, maybe an alternate pickup skill with no charge, but no damage and a shorter carry distance like abduct? Basically, a sent version of reaver's leap attack, which seems to be the more "advanced player version" of the base skill.

Vampires
Melee
- Reduced the strength and angle of melee auto-aim assistance to encourage greater skill requirements on melee attacking

Not all that noticeable, but like it in general.


Responses in green, just picked out a few that left an impression during my first play with the patch.

ZProtoss
13th Mar 2014, 23:04
Honestly, since no one liked the continual blind mechanic, I think you could move another direction with shadow bomb at this point. Proposed version below:

Shadow Bomb:

Generates a cloud of shadows at a location. Vampires who move through the cloud will gain X% haste in the cloud, and for an additional X seconds after leaving the cloud.

The cloud itself would still obscure vision by virtue of being a big dark cloud, but it'd also be useful as something for vampires to run in and out of. It sets up fun scenarios like a Tyrant exploding from the cloud at high speed in order to land an ability. Plus, Vampires in general right now are somewhat lacking in buff abilities anyways.

RemovedQuasar
13th Mar 2014, 23:10
Very good job with Stormbow ^^

Psycks
14th Mar 2014, 05:39
I'm a bit disappointed that balancing is the focus of the patches right now, when some people can't even play the game without constant crashes and other bugs that lead to crashes. I mean the party system crashes out people just trying to play together as friends most of the time. I really think that moving forward, being that combat is pretty balanced as it is and comes down to team coordination, whether it be human or vampire, making sure that people can actually play the game in peace should in fact be the focus of the patches. You are going to lose players alone on the fact that people can't play with the friends they make, crash constantly on a consistent basis, and the bevy of other bugs that need immediate attention. I really wanna see this game succeed, and these bugs are way bigger issues than these small, minutely noticeable balancing tweaks. Seriously. You want people to play your game, but your game is doing its best to make sure they don't.

RoseDeSang
14th Mar 2014, 06:02
I'm a bit disappointed that balancing is the focus of the patches right now, when some people can't even play the game without constant crashes and other bugs that lead to crashes. I mean the party system crashes out people just trying to play together as friends most of the time. I really think that moving forward, being that combat is pretty balanced as it is and comes down to team coordination, whether it be human or vampire, making sure that people can actually play the game in peace should in fact be the focus of the patches. You are going to lose players alone on the fact that people can't play with the friends they make, crash constantly on a consistent basis, and the bevy of other bugs that need immediate attention. I really wanna see this game succeed, and these bugs are way bigger issues than these small, minutely noticeable balancing tweaks. Seriously. You want people to play your game, but your game is doing its best to make sure they don't.

I am in complete agreement with Psycks. Me and him try to play as a party all the time. About 80% of the matches we play we are enemies, the other 20% one of us crashes out about 15% of the time. I don't understand why as a company you would release patches focused on balance when there are bugs and parts of the game that just don't work.

PencileyePirate
14th Mar 2014, 06:19
I don't understand why as a company you would release patches focused on balance when there are bugs and parts of the game that just don't work.

Well, this patch does have various bug-fixes for matchmaking, which (imo) was more far important than the party system itself.

However, it seems to have created some new problems as well; I've had quite a few more hard crashes than before.

Wobbley
14th Mar 2014, 09:17
They are working on a part system, it is currently their highest priority. It was decided on a meeting they had last Monday.

Here is the post: http://forums.eu.square-enix.com/showthread.php?t=10967&p=89431#post89431

AureasAetas
14th Mar 2014, 12:38
Maybe it's only me (but seeing other gamers way of playing I don't think so) but since that patch Sentinel is unplayable.

Wobbley
14th Mar 2014, 13:21
How is it unplayable? Most players I have talked to love the changes, the whole "360 spin grab spazm" was really unfair. The dive is much more balanced now, if you missed by a bit you have a chance to regrab, if you missed completely you need to get out. I have both Sentinel and Tyrant at lvl 14.

Tube_Reaver
14th Mar 2014, 13:33
Scout
Stormbow
- Redistributed damage between impact hit and explosion to encourage Stormbow users to be more accurate with their shots
- Reduced explosion radius of undrawn arrows to 275 (was 350), drawn arrows to 325 (was 350)

Tyrant
Ground Slam
- Ability activates and animates slightly faster


Perfect changes here, I was going to make a note of the tyrant ground slam animation being a tad too slow at times, and the stormbow changes should definitely help!

cmstache
14th Mar 2014, 15:40
Honestly, since no one liked the continual blind mechanic, I think you could move another direction with shadow bomb at this point. Proposed version below:

Shadow Bomb:

Generates a cloud of shadows at a location. Vampires who move through the cloud will gain X% haste in the cloud, and for an additional X seconds after leaving the cloud.

The cloud itself would still obscure vision by virtue of being a big dark cloud, but it'd also be useful as something for vampires to run in and out of. It sets up fun scenarios like a Tyrant exploding from the cloud at high speed in order to land an ability. Plus, Vampires in general right now are somewhat lacking in buff abilities anyways.

I love that idea, as long as they don't stack.

cmstache
14th Mar 2014, 16:05
I'd still like a fix for blinding shot, at a bare minimum for now, that it doesn't affect your through walls.

PencileyePirate
14th Mar 2014, 17:00
How is it unplayable? Most players I have talked to love the changes, the whole "360 spin grab spazm" was really unfair. The dive is much more balanced now, if you missed by a bit you have a chance to regrab, if you missed completely you need to get out. I have both Sentinel and Tyrant at lvl 14.

Yep, Sentinel is way better now. I think the people complaining it's unplayable were just missing all of their grabs because of the reduced time window.

Khalith
14th Mar 2014, 17:44
Yep, Sentinel is way better now. I think the people complaining it's unplayable were just missing all of their grabs because of the reduced time window.

In addition I think they got used to the prior build where grabbing someone was way too easy.

PencileyePirate
14th Mar 2014, 18:27
One thing I did notice is that without aim assist, the Sentinel's wing attack seems to require incredible precision. A number of times it looked like my wings just went through the opponent's character model without doing damage.

cmstache
14th Mar 2014, 18:30
It does, it's much like the melee attacks. Honestly, I like it better now, HOWEVER, I really think there's some issue with hit collision. I have numerous examples of even the auto-aim slightly moving it onto the player and it deals no damage.

Psyonix_Corey
15th Mar 2014, 00:30
I'm a bit disappointed that balancing is the focus of the patches right now, when some people can't even play the game without constant crashes and other bugs that lead to crashes. I mean the party system crashes out people just trying to play together as friends most of the time. I really think that moving forward, being that combat is pretty balanced as it is and comes down to team coordination, whether it be human or vampire, making sure that people can actually play the game in peace should in fact be the focus of the patches. You are going to lose players alone on the fact that people can't play with the friends they make, crash constantly on a consistent basis, and the bevy of other bugs that need immediate attention. I really wanna see this game succeed, and these bugs are way bigger issues than these small, minutely noticeable balancing tweaks. Seriously. You want people to play your game, but your game is doing its best to make sure they don't.

Different people work on different aspects of the game. Just because I might have time to make balance adjustments doesn't mean our engineers aren't investigating crashes or party bugs.

XJadeDragoonX
15th Mar 2014, 02:17
I think the easiest way to fix the landing issue it to make it that you have to press a button to land or you have to fly straight down to land. That way you aren't forced to land for random reasons like stairs or kidnapping at slightly weird angles in slopes

LOFO1993
15th Mar 2014, 07:36
I'm not a great Sentinel player, but for what I've seen grabbing anyone now against a decently careful team is close to impossible. You just get interrupted too easily, even trying to pick up someone completely idle is unbelievably hard; random shots flying around make you instantly lose the grab AND make you land, which 9/10 times leads to your death.

I get it was too easy before the patch, but it feels way too hard now. I mean, I'd NEVER use Sentinel over Reaver and Tyrant with this build, because almost anything I could do with it is far more dangerous for me than for the enemy, and it's also damn hard to accomplish. As a Reaver it's very rare to see your jumps interrupted or even just avoided, when you miss most of the times it's your fault, which is fine; and then you also have evasive abilities, and you are quite fast in climbing. As a Tyrant jump easily hits at least one enemy, and the same for charge/marathon, and after both you once again have evasive skills, and a lot of health. With Sentinel on the contrary your base ability is the one that requires you to expose the most, maneuver the best (against someone that likely saw you already), time yourself the best and on top of that not take damage of almost any kind and entity for a decent window of time, and if you fail you don't just miss, but fall down and end up helpless in between the enemies, which forces you to sacrifice your second perk with Take-off or you're just dead every time you fail a kidnap (and even if you escape you certainly won't be fine in terms of health).


Couldn't it be a good idea to increase the amount of damage you take before kidnap/abduct self-interrupts, or alternatively to have the interruption of the attack not also make you land, and possibly leave you with only a partial cooldown? You failed one round and took a couple of shots, fine, but you can fly away fast to recover and in 7-10 seconds you'll be able to give another go; seems fine to me. Now it's a "do or die", literally, one arrow-frag-knife randomly hitting you AND very strict timing AND very predictable movements for others to counter; chances you will die in the attempt are much higher than those you will deal some damage to one single human.

It's not always impossible, especially against weak or disorganized teams, but it's just pointless. There is just no reason to go Sentinel as it is now, your very basic ability feels broken, as opposed to Reaver and Tyrant where you have to take your risks but you always feel in control and know your skills in both placing and executing the hit are important. Sent asks you to be perfect AND lucky.

AureasAetas
15th Mar 2014, 10:32
How is it unplayable? Most players I have talked to love the changes, the whole "360 spin grab spazm" was really unfair. The dive is much more balanced now, if you missed by a bit you have a chance to regrab, if you missed completely you need to get out. I have both Sentinel and Tyrant at lvl 14.

Yeah and in every games I did, Sentinel players are last by score

cmstache
15th Mar 2014, 13:47
Couldn't it be a good idea to increase the amount of damage you take before kidnap/abduct self-interrupts, or alternatively to have the interruption of the attack not also make you land, and possibly leave you with only a partial cooldown? You failed one round and took a couple of shots, fine, but you can fly away fast to recover and in 7-10 seconds you'll be able to give another go; seems fine to me. Now it's a "do or die", literally, one arrow-frag-knife randomly hitting you AND very strict timing AND very predictable movements for others to counter; chances you will die in the attempt are much higher than those you will deal some damage to one single human.

Both of these are constantly being requested by sentinel players.

It's not always impossible, especially against weak or disorganized teams, but it's just pointless. There is just no reason to go Sentinel as it is now, your very basic ability feels broken, as opposed to Reaver and Tyrant where you have to take your risks but you always feel in control and know your skills in both placing and executing the hit are important. Sent asks you to be perfect AND lucky.
Welcome to the life of the sentinel.

The reason to bring a sentinels is because of the payoff for your team, it's able to support better than the other two, and create openings. Personally, I'm not a fan of stacking sentinels on a team though. But, there's a reason sentinels have the highest skill cap, by far, for the vampires. You're constantly under pressure of being shot, having to use skills while being shot, having to scout... without being shot.... starting to get the idea. With the extra mobility comes extra risk. But, you can use that as a distraction too to help your team close the distance. There's still many reasons to use a sentinel. Unlike the alch, though, a good sent player isn't underappreciated like a decent alchemist though.

XJadeDragoonX
15th Mar 2014, 20:21
A big problem with the sentinel now is that not only did the team remove the upward motion when initiating a kidnap or abduct (thank god) but they also removed the dive altogether. After the upward motion it would cause you to dive and fly incredibly fast so when you got your grab, you could shoot yourself up with the given momentum. Now you have to dive and build your own momentum before attempting. If you go in with no momentum, your sentinel ascends too slowly and you can easily be shot and thus drop your target. And even if you arent, you may not be able to get to a height you are used to in order to get max damage on the drop. With that being said, abduct is a superior option now. I never liked abduct before but now it at least guarantees some definite damage

cmstache
15th Mar 2014, 20:27
You can still use that momentum. It's harder to do though.

XJadeDragoonX
15th Mar 2014, 21:08
Right. Therefore kidnap/abduct should give your flight a burst of speed. That will eliminate the updraft that people were unhappy with but make it so escaping with your captive is safer. I'm an experienced player so all I really hated was landing without my consent. The new patch made things kind of difficult. Not impossible tho. And I haven't been being forced to land which is good. Just need more speed for my kidnap and I'd be a happy camper

cmstache
15th Mar 2014, 21:15
That may be a bit much, honestly, they need to restore the fall damage more, like it used to be. Altitudes aren't happening anymore and it's really nerfed sentinel grab-skill damage.

XJadeDragoonX
15th Mar 2014, 21:26
Ehh I don't agree. I think it would give better utility. If you just add damage to the fall, you're just masking the problem instead of solving it. You should get a speed boost so u can get to your target and up and out of harms way. If you have to struggle to get to your target and then drop him 10 feet just for him to take 500 damage, it sounds broken and imperfect. It makes no sense to increase fall damage since you already take damage from such small drops

cmstache
15th Mar 2014, 21:35
Makes sense. Honestly, I'd prefer your version, it just sounds a bit strong. But it might be a good counter to the double tells.

Orcoholist
17th Mar 2014, 03:08
Broken sentinels

Dze5Xeno
17th Mar 2014, 19:10
I agree

I mean since the last patch I couldn't be able to play as sentinel anymore. If I play as sentinels is total suicide.

LOFO1993
17th Mar 2014, 19:15
I have the feeling the change in auto-aim for vampire attacks made the balance shift towards the humans again for low-level matches. I can still more or less manage to hit the enemy, but I constantly see people swinging around hitting nothing for minutes. Hint: high latency (150+) seems to be part of the reason for this.

cmstache
17th Mar 2014, 19:17
It's happening to me at 67 ping. I notice it the same as when I play at 115-120...

MrJesper
17th Mar 2014, 19:28
Like for FPS and all others games .... ping play a lot in aiming ..... that's not the square-enix fault :)

LOFO1993
17th Mar 2014, 19:30
Like for FPS and all others games .... ping play a lot in aiming ..... that's not the square-enix fault :)

Not "aiming", "melee aiming". Things were FAR better before the last change; with a ping of even 250+ I could land almost every single hit, now it's a choke even when I'm not lagging.

TendrilSavant
17th Mar 2014, 19:39
I feel that sentinel is in a better place now, but overall vampires are at a disadvantage now. Before the patch, when playing humans you'd have to bait opponents attacks and try to dodge at the right moment. Now, most of the time you can evade a lot of vampire melee hits just by strafing. Also, face hugging is a thing now. I've been able "avoid" a lot of vampire melee just by getting as close to them and circle strafing while unloading my clip.

One of the biggest problems with the vampire melee is playing with high pings. It's nearly impossible to hit humans when I play on a EU server. Yet, they'll have little problem hitting me with hit-scan weapons. Playing sentinel is even worse, I've gone in for an abduct plenty of times only to have my sentinel just fly through a human.

One personal gripe is Sommerdam. Please optimize this map, it's the only map that gives my pc unplayable framerates on low settings and yes, I meet most of the recommended requirements to play (CPU is a bit old). This map is frustrating on a NA server, and unplayable on an EU server.

MrJesper
17th Mar 2014, 19:45
Not "aiming", "melee aiming". Things were FAR better before the last change; with a ping of even 250+ I could land almost every single hit, now it's a choke even when I'm not lagging.

This is the same. Vampires were too easy to aim before, now you need to brain a bit and ... like all game you need to have a good ping.

LOFO1993
17th Mar 2014, 19:47
This is the same. Vampires were too easy to aim before, now you need to brain a bit and ... like all game you need to have a good ping.

That doesn't make it really fair, and I don't think that was the purpose of the update. Making hitting a bit harder for everyone is a thing, making it the more close to impossible the more you are lagging is a completely different one.

MrJesper
17th Mar 2014, 19:50
That doesn't make it really fair, and I don't think that was the purpose of the update. Making hitting a bit harder for everyone is a thing, making it the more close to impossible the more you are lagging is a completely different one.

This isn't their fault if you are lagging ... for the moment we can't select EU or NA ... but when u can choose it, you are supposed to not have any lag. I don't have any problem to hit for my part, NA (150 ping ~) or EU (20 - 80 ping ~)

In every game you have to aim, you just can't do it with lags .... in every game .... that's normal because you don't see your ennemy at the good place at the right moment because of your ping.

Korevas
17th Mar 2014, 21:45
In every game you have to aim, you just can't do it with lags .... in every game .... that's normal because you don't see your ennemy at the good place at the right moment because of your ping.

"In every game" you'd expect different pings to at least be a problem that affects people in a predictable way all the time. In this case though, high latency being more punishing for vampires then for humans is more of a problem I think.

SiD_Green
18th Mar 2014, 03:14
It's really not just lag, and it's silly that when literally point blank against a human who is only moving slowly backward I can miss a melee attack. It's not simply lack of aiming; the arm swings in a big arc in front of you, but sometimes the game simply fails to register a hit.

XJadeDragoonX
18th Mar 2014, 03:41
Ok after a couple days with the patch and looking through the forums and asking alot of online players opinions, i have an overall handle on what players were complaining about and how devs went about fixing it. Here are a couple ways for both devs and player to be on the same page in terms of meanings.

The updraft that alot of players complained about wasnt really a complaint about the updraft. it was the fact that humans cant fit out of doorways when sentinels pick them up inside buildings. I believe the fix that would have been perfect is just making it that the sentinel can fly closer to the ground with a human in tow so they can get out of the door. By removing the "updraft" it create a situation with sentinels where you must fly down and build momentum when going to pick up the human in order to fly up with enough speed to get high fall damage after the pick up. ive played several games where i pick someone up and my momentum isnt there so even though im aiming straight up to fly, i can barely get to the height of a small building and thus, have terrible drop damage.

The movement upwards when initiating kidnap/abduct was a sore because it threw off your aim when going in as a sentinel. However, you also removed the dive portion of kidnap/abduct so now you are forced to build up your own speed to get to a human fast and accurately. The main problem with this is now it is significantly easier to get hit with enough damage to simply fall out of the sky at the beginning of your move. so now that the movement upwards when initiating a kidnap or abduct is gone, people are happy. but the burst of speed you got from the initiating of abduct or kidnap is also gone and should be put back in.

at this point in the game, i havent accidentally landed basically at all so whatever the devs did to fix that, awesome job. but if the overall kidnap/abduct mechanic were the same as before with the new harder to land by accident mechanic, gamers would be alot happier.

RainaAudron
18th Mar 2014, 11:19
By removing the "updraft" it create a situation with sentinels where you must fly down and build momentum when going to pick up the human in order to fly up with enough speed to get high fall damage after the pick up. ive played several games where i pick someone up and my momentum isnt there so even though im aiming straight up to fly, i can barely get to the height of a small building and thus, have terrible drop damage.


but the burst of speed you got from the initiating of abduct or kidnap is also gone and should be put back in.


This. I noticed it as well, I can barely fly high enough when abducting to do any substantial damage. The fast speed of flight is totally gone and I´m flying so slow that anybody can just shoot me down after I kidnap/abduct somebody.

Korevas
18th Mar 2014, 11:34
The updraft that alot of players complained about wasnt really a complaint about the updraft. it was the fact that humans cant fit out of doorways when sentinels pick them up inside buildings. I believe the fix that would have been perfect is just making it that the sentinel can fly closer to the ground with a human in tow so they can get out of the door. By removing the "updraft" it create a situation with sentinels where you must fly down and build momentum when going to pick up the human in order to fly up with enough speed to get high fall damage after the pick up. ive played several games where i pick someone up and my momentum isnt there so even though im aiming straight up to fly, i can barely get to the height of a small building and thus, have terrible drop damage.


Updraft was an issue because it would often get you stuck on doorframes etc., when you couldn't help but fly upwards no matter what you did, just allowing sents to fly lower with pickups wouldn't have solve that IMO.

So all in all, I do very much welcome the removal of updraft, but I think it coincedes with other changes that make sents as a whole less desirable. Namely the tells being still a bit too pronounced and charge windup being a bit too long, and they could also use a slight speedboost during or after the pickup phase.

Looking at the big picture though, it seems to me that sent is one of the classes that is prone to comparatively bad scaling with player skill level, because it has such a pronounced "react to this or else!" mechanic. In low skill matchups, were people aren't able to do so properly , he will reign supreme, but decent humans who react to the tells and focus him can counter him with relative ease.

cmstache
18th Mar 2014, 12:18
After thinking about this in matches, a speed boost, once/if you grab a player, would be most desirable. It grants no immunity, but will aleve the issue that the sentinel also got a huge damage nerf on kidnap/abducts from the lack of altitude.

Xaujin
19th Mar 2014, 16:09
Honestly, I think that sentinels should be given an option to updraft via bind-able key. It is an invaluable tool to a flyer and would help the sentinels feel more fluid and robust both in and out of combat.

cmstache
19th Mar 2014, 16:17
That might be a useful option. I'd personally like to air dodge while charging too.

killdrith
19th Mar 2014, 16:21
I don't see why holding shift in the air couldn't produce the previous updraft. The amount of times I see sentinels ground or die due to lack of speed now is really high.

Korevas
19th Mar 2014, 16:24
Honestly, I think that sentinels should be given an option to updraft via bind-able key. It is an invaluable tool to a flyer and would help the sentinels feel more fluid and robust both in and out of combat.

Good idea. Actually, they could simply use the right mousebutton (or whatever you bind the snatch power to). The more I think about it, the more I like it.

Psycks
19th Mar 2014, 20:52
Different people work on different aspects of the game. Just because I might have time to make balance adjustments doesn't mean our engineers aren't investigating crashes or party bugs.

I understand different teams work on different things perfectly, but this isn't a new bug whatsoever. The point of the post is people aren't playing because of this. Yes this is still in early beta and there's lots of room for improvement, but this has gone on for far too long. That's my point. At the end of the day I wouldn't be worried about this if I wasn't personally invested in seeing this games success. Gonna pick up a founders pack as soon as they are live, but saying different teams are doing different things isn't a very good excuse for things being like this as long as they have been.