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View Full Version : MISC. If This Goes Competitive...Current Round System Won't Work



MarinePikachu
13th Mar 2014, 05:58
So I have been thinking about this topic for a while and lets say that we have teamA as humans and teamB as vamps. teamA wins round 1 as humans. Now round 2 begins. All teamA has to do as vampires is just hide ontop of a building the entire game. This has not happened yet because all us beta people just want to play and kill stuff. However, if this goes competitive with rewards, then something will have to be done to avoid this.

Any suggestions? I don't have many ideas to solve this situation with the current deathmatch setup.

CoOkiedude
13th Mar 2014, 06:22
Uhm...So basically 4 Vampires will hide on top of a roof? Or maybe different rooftops ? I guess if some people want to lame it out, however in a truly competitive enviroment whether its ESL, Dreamhack, MLG or what have you, there are rules against this kind of gameplay. So I wouldn't worry about it too much...Also I'm fairly certain there is not a single rooftop the scout can't target with a grappling hook.

Don't get me wrong, I see your point and I know this will certainly be an issue in some matches (for example it's the second round and as vampires if you keep the current score you win by let's say 3 so you decide to run around and hide till the end of the round). but I do believe it won't happen in official competitive matches.

Unfortunately ,suggestion-wise, it's difficult to implement any sort of penalty for not participating in fights for a given amount of time without it having a serious impact on the gameplayso...unsure of how to help you there :s

HereticSage
13th Mar 2014, 06:47
So I have been thinking about this topic for a while and lets say that we have teamA as humans and teamB as vamps. teamA wins round 1 as humans. Now round 2 begins. All teamA has to do as vampires is just hide ontop of a building the entire game. This has not happened yet because all us beta people just want to play and kill stuff. However, if this goes competitive with rewards, then something will have to be done to avoid this.

Any suggestions? I don't have many ideas to solve this situation with the current deathmatch setup.
Solving this kind of **** is what I live for.

Well, the competitive play doesn't HAVE to be deathmatch, but if we want it to be, humans would need a vantage point that can shoot vampires off a roof.

I think a more polished solution is to add a survivor condition to human scoring. +1 point for every 2.5 minutes alive? To balance, give the vampires +1 for succeeding in killing someone with a survivor bonus. Therefore, humans only truly gain if they live for 5 consecutive minutes, half the match. This is near-negligible, and awesome to pull off, and if vampires ignore the humans, they go 0-12. Frankly, if they're afraid of going against humans with a bigger lead, that's just sad, and I would lol if they got scout sniped all match. You could also be a jerk and add a "blood-starved" effect on vampires, slowing their movement and climbing speed by a percentage per 3.33 minutes they're alive without feeding. At 9.99 (basically just before match end), if they live that long before feeding (meaning not playing), simply have them die via starvation and give a point to the enemy team. Then they go 0-16, or you could make starvation worth 6 points each and they'd go 0-30.

Khalith
13th Mar 2014, 06:55
The only maps I could see this working on is in Freeport in that little stone area above the house by the water and at the very top of the tower in sommerdamme with 4 reavers staying crouched down at all times.. Besides that I can't think of a single place that you can't hit from some angle.

HereticSage
13th Mar 2014, 07:00
The only maps I could see this working on is in Freeport in that little stone area above the house by the water and at the very top of the tower in sommerdamme with 4 reavers staying crouched down at all times.. Besides that I can't think of a single place that you can't hit from some angle.
Well, you could sit back and force the humans to come at you (instead of the other way around) from an advantageous position, which would give you easier kills. Cheap way to play, but possible for it to become meta. Also, pounce and jump are surprisingly good travel skills.

MarinePikachu
13th Mar 2014, 08:32
This would work on every map with reaver (just ready pounce). If someone gets too close or gets a good vantage point then you just move a little as a vampire or across the map as vamps are always faster than humans.

@CoOkiedude

The problem with making rules is how do you determine if what they are doing is considered wrong. Maybe they go in a bit but never do much. So rather than just purely sitting back, they do a few attacks just to get by that rule. Now, how much sitting back is considered wrong? It is too opinion based.

As for scout using grappling hook, This will work. However, that means all vamps just jump on that one scout and then sit back. If everyone goes scout, then vamps can choose a good team combo against that.

@HereticSage

I do like the idea of giving humans points on surviving. Would have to be a relatively long period of time like you said. Vamps shouldnt get any additional points however. Its only the humans that would need this advantage as they don't always have the ability to reach vampires.

HereticSage
13th Mar 2014, 08:48
@HereticSage

I do like the idea of giving humans points on surviving. Would have to be a relatively long period of time like you said. Vamps shouldnt get any additional points however. Its only the humans that would need this advantage as they don't always have the ability to reach vampires.
Well, given that humans are stronger right now, I thought it would be best to come up with something that would be +/-0 except in exceptional or abuse cases. I also wanted to make it noticeable enough to dangle a carrot over the humans' heads with a cool mechanic to improve without actually harming the vampire side given the current advantages.

CoOkiedude
13th Mar 2014, 08:55
Idea ! Perhaps A Counter-strike concept could be implemented here. What I mean is, in CS this can never happen since the terrorists can arm the bomb and if the CTs don't disarm it they automatically lose, deathmatch or not. What if, every map in Nosgoth had ,let's say , 2 sites where the Humans could activate a device that if left activated would "purify" the map completely of vampires.

For Lore purposes , this could be either a Sarafan device , a device the Circle of Nine invented when they tried to overthrow the vampire guardians or perhaps something similar to Moebius' staff but on a larger scale.

Activation of this device would require a lot of time so perhaps 2 minutes? And deactivation would be fairly simple around 6-7 seconds. But it will record the amount of time it has been activated so it would only need the remaining time since its last disarming to complete the process. (Which could be indicated by cool runes in the shape of a dial that would light up to record progress). Of course all these details could be changed for balance purposes but I like the idea, surprisingly. ( I generally consider my ideas crappy and generic -_-)

HereticSage
13th Mar 2014, 09:02
So you only need 2 consecutive fights to win as a human team? Not exactly... ideal.

CoOkiedude
13th Mar 2014, 09:12
How ?...What? 2 consecutive fights? I said 2 minutes not 2 seconds. 2 all-in fights maybe last 2 minutes and I'm fairly certain you will not be able to hug one spot and protect it if people are pounding on you.Not to mention the spawn positions. I also said that details could be worked over for balance purposes so you could suggest something of your own. The premise is to get a system that would discourage the type of behavior Pika-Pika suggested...

Psyonix_Corey
13th Mar 2014, 15:20
We have a few solutions in mind for vampire "hiding" strategy, but it hasn't proved necessary up until now. We can reevaluate soon.

Thestreetuluv
13th Mar 2014, 15:29
if there is a pro mode I doubt the one we are currently used to will be chosen due to many factors. But hey thats just my thougts!