PDA

View Full Version : MISC. Feedback on Ranks 1-10



Stromanous
11th Mar 2014, 09:29
TL;DR: Stream of consciousness feedback on 4 classes & experience of first 10 ranks.

Tomorrow I will start playing the 10+ queues, so I will give some feedback about the first 10 Ranks.

Generally speaking, there seems to be a much higher skillcap out of the gate for Humans. Map knowledge & teamwork is really important to their success, since all healing requires stations & vampire CC requires peels outside of close shave 1v1s.

Whereas Vampires can kinda BS their way around the map with their mobility & melee is very strong against new humans who cannot place proper shots in point blank range. Vampires are also instantly rewarded with health after a successful encounter, or at least do not need overall map knowledge to secure healing either through regen or feeding.

However, the Vampire skill requirement increases very quickly as Human skill improves. I don't believe this scales in a linear fashion--that is, Vampires lose their advantage as Human skill improves. I'm interested to see how things settle going forward.

Sound cues are exceptional. I like that a big part of human gameplay is "listening" to the vampires to know their locations. Headphones/Surround is a huge advantage, should almost be put on the "Recommended" System Settings if it isn't there. My sound bugged out one match ( silence ) & the difficulty for humans went up dramatically.

I decided to focus on 1 class per side for first 5 Ranks, then a 2nd class per side for the following 5 Ranks.

First up: Alchemist.

I feel the Blind is a bit weak, both playing as Alchemist & fighting against them. The blind only lasts a second or two, enough to possibly negate an attack or ability, so long as the Alchemist moves unpredictably after the blind so the Vampire aims incorrectly.

I know it is hard to compare a Human ability to a Vampire one, but looking at Shadow Bomb just makes the Alch Blind seem like a sick joke. Perhaps in conjunction with other Human abilities, the Blind would be too strong if buffed? Not sure on this.

On the other hand, Fire Wall is awesome, awesome, awesome. Nice skillshot with a huge payoff. Feels very rewarding & has a variety of uses ( usually serving a dual purpose of damage + area permission, but I like that each use is kind of skewed more one way than the other ). I also like the friendly fire after the initial immunity.

The cannon feels great. No complaints, well executed 'nade launcher. I, again, appreciate the friendly fire. Looking forward to messing around with Viscous.

Aside: Friendly fire & 'nades makes me think of rocket jumps. That makes me think of Tribes Skiing. That makes me think of skill-based physics manipulations & how these things deepen high level play. Not even going anywhere with that, just throwing it out there. ( I know rocket jumping would be absurd here. )

First Vampire class was Tyrant.

Great tank class.

Charge feels impactful, versatile & strong.

Ground Slam, I feel will be replaced by Shockwave...I haven't been overly impressed so far. I think I need to learn the 500 range better, as many Slams miss when I feel they would connect.

The only times it has really shined have been when I can close the distance on a group of humans without using Charge--as soon as humans hear the Charge coming, they spread. Perhaps it will work with Jump Attack, but I have a suspicion Shockwave will be better there as well. The 1,000 range & higher damage seem too good both for engaging & snagging runners.

I like that Tyrants are subtly encouraged to stay on ground level, at least with Charge. Reavers can protect themselves on rooftops by flattening with Pounce to avoid arrows, but Tyrants just stick out like a sore thumb. It adds depth to the wall climbing mechanic by virtue of risk/reward. Despite being tanky, Tyrants still need to protect their life total.

Iron Skin, not much to say. 80% feels right; I can still take significant damage if I bear down on 3+ humans, but it is strong enough to make decisions interesting; collision blocking, evasive action, buying time for cooldowns, interacting with corpses.

The last one is huge & very rewarding. Being able to drag corpses while under Iron Skin offers not only a boost to my own survivability, but lets me leave health packs for teammates in opportune places. ( same with Reaver evasion )

I really enjoy the Tyrant.

2nd Human Class: The Scout.

My aim sucks. It has been a few years since I dusted off TF2, & even then I mostly played Medic. Melee combat is my wheelhouse, so Vampires are 2nd nature. But I want to step out of my comfort zone & learn all the classes in this game, so better to learn the sniper sooner than later.

I feel this class is very appropriately named. I feel responsible for watching rooftops & hampering the vampires' ability to engage ( having them enter the fight @ 50% health ). At first, I was playing somewhat like Alchemist, where I was covering my teammates ( hunters mostly ) & hanging back. But this is a huge opportunity loss when I realized just how much map coverage a Scout can have when one starts to get a feel for the maps.

There is a big gap between my understanding & execution, however, haha. Sooo many missed Charged Shots & I still don't know the hot spots for Scouts across the maps. But when the Charged Shots started to land, I could feel a big difference. Knocking Sentinels out of Kidnap & Reavers out of Pounce is hugely rewarding.

Throw Knives is very nice. Such a low cooldown for great utility. I am excited to play around with Camouflage despite the negative discussion I have read, but I can see it being a challenge to rival the slot for Throw Knives. Being able to peel is really good. Peeling every 10s is hot, compared to other options.

Aside: Suggestion for Camouflage, despite never having used it--allow 1 Arrow or Ability to be used without breaking Camo. So we can get 1 Charged Shot, 1 normal shot, 1 Volley, 1 Hook or 1 Turret without reveal. Since Vampires can still see us in Camo & the arrow tip still lights up in Camo, this doesn't seem like an imbalanced suggestion, but I'll leave that to Psyonix.

Volley is a tough ability to use well. I feel it has more potential than I am gaining from it currently, using it on reaction ( like I have been ) seems like it might not be as strong as using pre-emptively as area permission, since if a Vamp is already on me, he's just going to follow me right out of the Volley & will do negligible damage.

For close range combat, Throw Knives & bow attacks yielded the greatest gain. Overall for Scout, Charged Shot feels like the real special move. I look forward to improving my aim.

2nd Vampire class: The Reaver

Felt like the easiest of all classes to pick up that I have played so far, possibly because of how flexible the toolkit is.

Shadow Bomb makes me feel like a beast every time I throw. This ability opens up avenues for the entire Vampire team & so many different plays can be made.

I feel that Pounce aim assist is unnecessary & lends to why Vampires dominate the sub-10 bracket. Humans must learn to aim properly right from the outset, but the Reaver does not. I appreciate that the higher damage non-assist Pounce exists, but I'd like to see the assist removed entirely from Pounce.

Reaver feels like the ultimate wall crawler. Pounce provides rooftop security, I use it more often to flatten myself than to actually Pounce players. Also using the sound cue to lure Humans toward or away from certain areas then changing locations is very fun.

Overall, the Reaver feels like the most versatile class ( but maybe that goes to Hunter, haven't played him yet ), being able to support the team with Shadow, ranged Pounce CC, Evasion defense ( + corpse dragging, like Tyrant ) & rooftop safety. Plus being able to cancel Pounce after sound cue in addition to Shadow plays gives the best opportunity for mind games out of any class I've played so far.

Wow, long post. I'd better be done now.

Khalith
11th Mar 2014, 10:02
Good read with some interesting thoughts, you did bring up a few specifics I wanted to address directly though.


I feel the Blind is a bit weak, both playing as Alchemist & fighting against them. The blind only lasts a second or two, enough to possibly negate an attack or ability, so long as the Alchemist moves unpredictably after the blind so the Vampire aims incorrectly.

It can buy a few seconds, even though the vamp will whiff an attack or two they also need to reorient their position after being blinded, if you feel it's weak the light grenade move might be what you need.


The only times it has really shined have been when I can close the distance on a group of humans without using Charge--as soon as humans hear the Charge coming, they spread.

Try using the marathon charge move and practice activating it behind a wall a good distance away, they'll never see you coming with it.

You may not have a lot of success using the jumping stomp attack, using the stomp attack well requires a lot of practice and map knowledge, you need to get a feel for the range, adjusting the distance you go with your movement keys, knowing which buildings have a high enough ceiling that allow you to use it while inside, knowing how to hit certain ceiling on purpose so you can jump without triggering the cooldown and perform double or even triple jumps to cross the maps quickly, and understanding that if the humans are camping inside of buildings without a hole for you to come crashing down through the ability is useless until you have reavers smoke the humans out.


Ground Slam, I feel will be replaced by Shockwave...I haven't been overly impressed so far. I think I need to learn the 500 range better, as many Slams miss when I feel they would connect.

I adore the jumping stomp, it's my favorite move, combining it with the shockwave allows a big aoe stun, especially if you have other vamps running a distraction since you can't stomp in to a shockwave. I prefer it to ground slam especially since I believe the ground slam is a lot easier to dodge, personal opinion there.


There is a big gap between my understanding & execution, however, haha. Sooo many missed Charged Shots & I still don't know the hot spots for Scouts across the maps. But when the Charged Shots started to land, I could feel a big difference. Knocking Sentinels out of Kidnap & Reavers out of Pounce is hugely rewarding.

It only gets better once you learn to aim, I'm pretty terrible at shooters myself but I've been playing scout religiously and I've noticed very small incremental improvements over time, not a lot but slight is better than none. Once you start using the war bow which has a stun you can start knocking targets out of the sky, off buildings, or when you see them blow an offensive CD. War bow stun in to knives makes them lose out on most of it.

I won't quote the whole thing, but your assessment on human skill cap is very true, especially as it improves. A really good human team I feel has more advantages over a really good vampire team, especially when you have scouts that are really good at sniping and effectively take roughly 400 hp off your health from across the map when you were running across a rooftop for only 2-3 seconds to get close. As it's pretty easy to BS around as vampires and still win, it can be very jarring to suddenly come across a good human team that works well together and knows how to aim, you didn't mention sentinel but I will say that in my opinion a good scout or two with skill at aiming can make playing sentinel a liability.


I feel that Pounce aim assist is unnecessary & lends to why Vampires dominate the sub-10 bracket. Humans must learn to aim properly right from the outset, but the Reaver does not. I appreciate that the higher damage non-assist Pounce exists, but I'd like to see the assist removed entirely from Pounce.

This is actually a very interesting point and something I never even thought of before. As stated before I play only scout for the most part now and I've actually switched to the pounce without aim assist, I feel both things are what is helping me improve my ability to aim. I landed a non-aim assist pounce on a scout from the top of the really tall tower in sommerdamm, I was so pleased with myself when it landed!