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MythiusIV
7th Mar 2014, 13:47
Having passed rank 20 as Myth, I finally feel qualified to make a few observations about some of my favorite classes, starting with the alchemist. It's difficult to say what's overpowered and underpowered, but perhaps my opinions on what work best might be useful. I'll assume anyone reading this has already figured out the obvious, so let's stick to What's Not Obvious(TM).


Flame wall. FIRE BABY. This ability throws down a wall that can easily block corridors. What's not obvious:
1) This ability always places the wall relative to your camera direction. This means for example, right after a reaver pops off of you, you can immediately rotate 90 degrees, drop your flame wall, dodge away, and because of the rotation he's now instantly on fire because of the length of the wall. If the reaver is auto attacking, he's now wading through an inferno to get to you. Hallways and corridors can become blazing deathtraps because of a horizontally placed flame. Try to keep this in mind.

2) You're immune to your own flame wall for a precious couple of seconds. Afterward, it'll hurt, but not badly enough that you should let it stand in the way if you NEED to be on the other side.

3) Rarely will a pre-placed wall actually help you. Your opponents are smart. They'll maneuver around it, or only briefly pass through it. A reaver pouncing through it won't even be damaged. Placing it in the middle of deadly brawl instead can force vampires to endure it while they finish their attack/ability animations, or allow allies to use it their advantage.

Flamethrower:
1) It does nearly 1k damage if you can hold it on someone, and it even hurts evading reavers. The problem is during this whole time you're not shooting, so it's best used after your clip is empty, or if you think you can hit more than one attacker.

Your cannon: It hurts you at melee range, so you should melee or dodge.
1) Well, no. That vampire will still be clawing at your face if you melee and he'll win, and four times out of five he'll still nail you if you try to dodge away. What to do? Suck it up and shoot him anyway. Worst case, you both die, which is infinitely better than him becoming a full health problem for your teammates because you tried to dodge. Not to say you should never dodge, but don't fear the damage.

2) A 45 degree angle shot can reach an impressive distance, almost like artillery. Getting a good handle on this has often allowed me to nail feed vampires a good distance away or hit those on the rooftop that think they are safe.

3) Bankshots! Your shells will bounce off walls, which is very handy to get someone through doorways. Also stylish.

4) If your teammate is exposed and about to get mauled, shoot at him, not the far off crouched reaver. The best way for you to make your shells hit is often to shoot at your teammates. Odd, I know. This means it's best to stay in the back because you're usually doing your damage by defending from attackers.

5) The perk quick hands benefits alchemists much more than other classes because of our small clip and need to reload each shell individually, but don't overlook my favorite fleet footed for maneuvering and making up for your short range.

Sunlight grenade:
1) It explodes on impact, which is very important if you're trying to get a reaver off of someone. Even if you miss, it'll still save your teammate, whereas a missed shell will let the reaver claw your buddy for another two seconds.

2) If you didn't use the sunlight grenade to push them off your teammate, evade is often the first thing they'll do, which is where the grenade is handy again.

And finally, a few quick notes for generally being a squishy human:
1) Charging tyrants steer like cows. Turn a corner and hug a wall.
2) Your fight to defend your teammates doesn't end when they're dead. Good teammates don't let their buddies get eaten. Try to keep an eye on bodies if there's a lull in the fight, but living ones take priority.
3) Sentinels are the alchemist's worst enemy. Stand behind someone more appetizing and shoot at them.
4) Get surround sound. Sound is such a huge part of the game that I feel like those without are at a disadvantage.

If this is appreciated at all I'll probably add to this and cover What's Not Obvious for reavers and tyrants too. Hope this helps someone!

HereticSage
7th Mar 2014, 15:35
Do you have any thoughts to share about the poison mist and healing mist abilities? I like flame wall, but it obscures my sight at times, and having good sight is kinda necessary if I'm going to land direct hits (null if they're in the wall, just track the numbers).

RainaAudron
7th Mar 2014, 16:28
I have discovered that the poison mist is probably better than firewall as it has larger radius.

Healing mist is good, though I prefer dealing damage.

Razaiim
7th Mar 2014, 16:38
I find that I'm so used to dodging choking haze as humans, that avoiding poison mist is kinda easy, and I'm not too worried. Also healing mist is great, but I find very few players using it effectively. Many players that run it will just plop it in front of them expecting team mates to heal and run to it, I've seen players through it and stand in it through choking haze, and I've seen players through it at allies using the heal station.

Personally I like my flamethrower the most.

MythiusIV
7th Mar 2014, 23:03
I think Razaiim said it best about poison. That large radius is easy to dodge out of if it's placed too soon. As for healing mist, the mileage you get out of it will really depend on your teammates, and won't help at all if everyone is dead or uses a healing station instead. Takes a very different mindset to use that I haven't yet figured out.

Kebabz
8th Mar 2014, 02:24
The most obvious thing that clearly is not being utilized enough is the fact that the projectiles curve. Yes, it can be a blessing not just a curse.

I am normally playing as Tyrant with Suppress Pain or Reaver with evasion. Hence my playstyle generally revolves around getting in, do the opportune damage, pop evasion or pain suppression and get out of there. I have met some 3-4 alchemist that were far too aware of what was going on, and every time I got a bit low running away, or rather climbing the building, they would have enough game sense to actually know where I was going and planted 2-3 shots in the general direction and thus scored them 4-5 kills more that round from that alone.

The curved projectiles are definitely a pain to master, but I would reckon those who master it, would not have such a hard time keeping up with scouts and hunters in score (at least that has been my general experience).

hirukaru
8th Mar 2014, 03:33
The most obvious thing that clearly is not being utilized enough is the fact that the projectiles curve. Yes, it can be a blessing not just a curse.

I am normally playing as Tyrant with Suppress Pain or Reaver with evasion. Hence my playstyle generally revolves around getting in, do the opportune damage, pop evasion or pain suppression and get out of there. I have met some 3-4 alchemist that were far too aware of what was going on, and every time I got a bit low running away, or rather climbing the building, they would have enough game sense to actually know where I was going and planted 2-3 shots in the general direction and thus scored them 4-5 kills more that round from that alone.

The curved projectiles are definitely a pain to master, but I would reckon those who master it, would not have such a hard time keeping up with scouts and hunters in score (at least that has been my general experience).

This is totally correct.
Mastering the curve and detionation timings is a blessing for the alchemist and is highly recommended.
But also hunters can dot his with there grenades and scouts with there volley.

WhiteFlameKyo
8th Mar 2014, 10:40
I have discovered that the poison mist is probably better than firewall as it has larger radius.

I had thought so before I actually tried. I find Fire Wall more effective.




2) Your fight to defend your teammates doesn't end when they're dead. Good teammates don't let their buddies get eaten. Try to keep an eye on bodies if there's a lull in the fight, but living ones take priority.


This actually applies to all classes. I wish people noticed anything aside from their crosshairs and kills counters during a fight.


There are some things I'd like to add to the topic:
1. Alchemists need only one shot from their default weapon to take a reaver off of a teammate. Scouts and hunters may have their knives and bombs but those have cooldowns. Alchemists should always be the first to support their allies.
2. Reload your weapon every time you're not shooting it for a moment. Seriously, after hours of playing the alchemist my finger hits R by itself.
3. If you're in danger, go into a corner, put a fire wall in front of you, creating a hypotenuse of pain. If anyone wants to hit you, they will burn. Also, if you die, your corpse won't be available to vampires for some time. This should be used usually only when your teammates are already dead, as - hidden in the corner and blinded by fire - you won't be able to properly support them.

HereticSage
8th Mar 2014, 16:12
creating a hypotenuse of pain
This made me smile.

Khalith
8th Mar 2014, 17:39
I think Razaiim said it best about poison. That large radius is easy to dodge out of if it's placed too soon. As for healing mist, the mileage you get out of it will really depend on your teammates, and won't help at all if everyone is dead or uses a healing station instead. Takes a very different mindset to use that I haven't yet figured out.

Not trying to plug myself here or anything, but here is a vid of me doing some alchemist gameplay and making some very effective use of the heal, you'll see me switch to it early on and it makes a huge difference in our fights. I hope watching it will give you a little better insight on the right way to use it, if you don't want to watch it though here's the deal: in my opinion, the heal is only good if your human team is good enough to drive away the vampires in a section where a healing station isn't safely available for various reasons.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ilDPM0YIezU

hirukaru
8th Mar 2014, 18:20
@khalith I love the heal. But the effect is really depended on how your team mates play.
It is one of the greatest abilities in the game.

Khalith
8th Mar 2014, 19:46
@khalith I love the heal. But the effect is really depended on how your team mates play.
It is one of the greatest abilities in the game.

If your team can capitalize on it, in that game I recorded it was critical to winning that round. Those extra seconds it can buy really make a difference.

hirukaru
8th Mar 2014, 20:09
If your team can capitalize on it, in that game I recorded it was critical to winning that round. Those extra seconds it can buy really make a difference.

Yep that is what I say. But your team has to make use of it and the team you where in in the movie probably did. Didnt watch every second of it.
Keep using healing mist I love it when people use it:D

Prime_Abstergo
19th Mar 2014, 10:51
Healing mist shines in the Siege game mode. Those who were playing it will understand.

But in standard TDM mode flamethrower or even flamewall (depends on the map defence spot) are far more preferable.
And do not underestimate power of Poison mist - it is still a very powerfull ability used in *proper* places.

isendure
1st Jul 2014, 01:02
I feel that the healing mist should cause a mild amount of dps to enemy's. It has a fairly short lifespan and a fairly small radius and it seems to take a couple seconds before it starts to heal. Often times I find myself throwing it at my team them being in it and the vamps just converging to that enticing blue bubble full of easy kills. If it at least caused a little dps it could be a lot more effective .

PencileyePirate
2nd Jul 2014, 19:40
I feel that the healing mist should cause a mild amount of dps to enemy's. It has a fairly short lifespan and a fairly small radius and it seems to take a couple seconds before it starts to heal. Often times I find myself throwing it at my team them being in it and the vamps just converging to that enticing blue bubble full of easy kills. If it at least caused a little dps it could be a lot more effective .

IMO Healing Mist is pretty effective right now, but it's all about timing.

Using HM on a teammate mid-fight usually doesn't work, because vamps can do damage faster. If a teammate has been pounced or is standing in poison, you can try to cancel out the damage they're taking ... but if they're the subject of focused melee attacks it's not going to heal them quickly enough.

On the other hand it works wonders for keeping your team near full health between fights, especially if nearby refill stations are exhausted. It's also great for keeping an extremely low-HP teammate (who has won his individual fight and/or isn't being attacked) from running away to heal while the team is still engaged.

flyklm
7th Jul 2014, 22:20
After prolonged testing of alchemist's abilities, I'm now packing Light bomb/Fire Wall 24/7 (as for launchers, either default hand cannon or multi cannon).

With properly placed Fire Wall (see OP's first tip), you can either heavily damage vampire and scare him away or outright kill him. Even if you fail with launcher and die, damage inflicted on your foe with bomb and fire will make him easy prey for your teammates.

Healing Mist is cool and all, but by using it you deny yourself -tons- of DPS and leave yourself extremely vulnerable.
Poison Cloud on other hand is more of a situational support/area denial ability. To use it effectively (i.e. throwing it next to attacked buddy), you actually have to be out of combat.
Flamethrower is meh - annoying casting animation, long cooldown, v. short range and most of all - it cancels when you dodge.

cmstache
8th Jul 2014, 02:31
It's funny. I find that the flamethrower's best aspect is that it cancels by dodging.

PencileyePirate
8th Jul 2014, 02:44
It's funny. I find that the flamethrower's best aspect is that it cancels by dodging.

I agree, I usually pop flamethrower preemptively so it's nice to have the dodge as an easy cancel.

PencileyePirate
8th Jul 2014, 02:46
It's funny. I find that the flamethrower's best aspect is that it cancels by dodging.

I agree. I usually pop flamethrower preemptively so it's nice to have the dodge as an easy cancel, especially since early cancellation reduces cooldown and I often want to re-activate the skill again pretty quickly after dodging.

flyklm
8th Jul 2014, 07:55
Problem is, you may not have a chance to use it twice in one fight and since 3 out of 4 vampire classes have abilities canceling flamethrower as well it makes it's use very situational. Same goes for 1v1 situations, when any decent vampire will either interrupt it or dodge/retreat until it's over.

cmstache
9th Jul 2014, 17:52
Problem is, you may not have a chance to use it twice in one fight and since 3 out of 4 vampire classes have abilities canceling flamethrower as well it makes it's use very situational. Same goes for 1v1 situations, when any decent vampire will either interrupt it or dodge/retreat until it's over.
You get the chance. If you don't, then you aren't using it right.

flyklm
9th Jul 2014, 19:25
You get the chance. If you don't, then you aren't using it right.

You may or you may not have a chance to use flamethrower twice in the same fight. What is your point?

cmstache
9th Jul 2014, 20:47
You may or may not get the change to use any skill more than once. Not just the flamethrower. But, you can easily set yourself up to use it more than once. Your point had a connotation that it was a con of the flamethrower, but it really isn't. If anything, it's neutral.

flyklm
9th Jul 2014, 21:04
Yeah, well, Nosgoth is not a snooker, setting yourself up for anything in 4v4 skirmish is rather uncertain. Sometimes you are not allowed to live long enough to throw two bolas during one fight, etc. I feel like we got off topic and playing word games tho.

SiD_Green
9th Jul 2014, 21:13
Yeah, I think the point was that unlike the other skills in that slot, flamethrower can be stopped