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makugx
27th Dec 2009, 05:53
Hello everybody!

I wanted to get info from the community and feedback on the following matters.

1) if you'd like the idea of a remake for this game, PLEASE SAY SO.

2) if you know who's behind the game's development and ownership, PLEASE SAY SO.
(a contact of some kind? don't publish it, PM me it please)

3) if you could see an updated version of this game with extremely exquisite battle gameplay, and all the entire story PROLONGED into a new remake and made with much more production, would you buy it..
..EVEN THOUGH THE STORY IS BASICALLY THE SAME (in the remake)?

Thanks, I'll be glad to hear your responses.

Linikratyo
27th Dec 2009, 12:01
let me guess: you are planning to remake the game.

sin_of_envy
27th Dec 2009, 14:53
1 - I like the idea of another addition to the game series, be it a remake, fangame or whatever it might be. It keep the series alive.
2 - Thorough research is the root of all information. Try Google or Wikipedia for starters.
3 - I'd buy it.

makugx
27th Dec 2009, 20:46
Linikratyo: have been for ages.
the game's battle system was only good in the first one because it was on ps1, but the other games had horrible gameplay, except for the puzzles n all that.


sin_of_envy:
I know what you mean, but it wouldn't be killing the series, I'd be MAKING JUSTICE of it.
because the games that were done got worst and worst on the gameplay as time went by.
I don't know what happened, but it should have been the other way around.
it's like no one realized its potential, after the 2nd game everything went really downhill, even though the story was always solid.

2- yeah I know, but besides that, I'm looking for any solid leads anyone may know, someone key from the dev. team.

3- awesome :D

makugx
27th Dec 2009, 20:47
not to mention that they missed a big chunk of the entire story, and it could all be told properly.

Devils@Dusk
27th Dec 2009, 22:26
1) yes
2) not sure
3) i'd buy it if it came out on the 360

Linikratyo
27th Dec 2009, 23:33
Linikratyo: have been for ages.
the game's battle system was only good in the first one because it was on ps1, but the other games had horrible gameplay, except for the puzzles n all that.

How are you planning to do it? Have you got a company to release it with? Have you got enough money to buy the rights for remaking the games?
I would also suggest you speak to people like Amy Hennig and Denis Dyack, they directed the games, so they should be able to give you some tips.

1. Sure, but only if the story and atmosphere don't change.
2. Eidos/Square Enix Europe
3. If it's good then I will buy it

Limaj_daas
29th Dec 2009, 00:06
1) Yes if the feel, dialogue, story and general setting don't change. So basically, the game in 3D with nice graphics, models and textures. An open ended, non linear map would also be amazing

2) Initially, Silicon Knights and Crystal Dynamics. Crystal then took all the rights (as far as I know) but were acquired by Eidos. Since then Square Enix have acquired Eidos and Eidos and Square Enix Europe are related some how.

3) Story "prolonged" what do you mean? I love original story, I wouldn't change any of it. And yeah I'd probably buy it, but I'd like to see a functioning demo first.

You know, sometimes I wish that all those individuals trying to make remakes of LoK would get together and make one. Yeah you'd have to give up a bit of your vision and compromise but at least there would be an end product that's enjoyable rather than just some level designs or models or textures.

Btw, you'd probably have to buy the rights of the franchise in order to sell it and the cost will be phenomenal. If i were you I'd get a whole bunch of people together and get a fully finished demo. Then i'd mail that to Eidos and post it online. If there's a positive response from Eidos, they might help you develop the game. If it's a negative response from Eidos but a positive one from the fans, you could ask for donations. Trust me, they'd donate.

Good luck with your project... assuming you're going through with it. Btw, the combat systems were... alright. Each had its flaws. My favorite is the Defiance one, although it has collision detection issues.

EDIT: Btw, a lot of the info like who owns it isn't too hard to find. Instead of making an account and posting on the forums you could try google or wiki.

Devils@Dusk
29th Dec 2009, 16:33
Are Silicon Knights still in existence?

Paradoks
29th Dec 2009, 16:53
Are Silicon Knights still in existence?

Still in existence but not necessarily in good shape - Too Human (after 11 years of development) didn't receive much love.
And we know that one bad game can kill a studio (see Free Radical).

Linikratyo
29th Dec 2009, 20:39
Still in existence but not necessarily in good shape - Too Human (after 11 years of development) didn't receive much love.
And we know that one bad game can kill a studio (see Free Radical).

Did it get 11 years of development?! :eek:

Paradoks
29th Dec 2009, 20:58
Did it get 11 years of development?! :eek:

Some sources say 11, others say 10.

According to wikipedia:


The game is noted for being in development hell for almost ten years, originally being planned as a four-disc action-adventure game for the PlayStation in 1999. Development later went into the Nintendo GameCube in 2000 before eventually selling the rights to Microsoft in 2005. It was then announced to be released for the Xbox 360 where it eventually became a finished product. Too Human had a massive development budget of 80 million dollars that was funded by Microsoft.

fneh
31st Dec 2009, 00:08
I'd be very interested in a remake. so long as it was done properly.
Ideally i'd want the game for my ps3. I wouldn't be interested in something that played like defiance. If it was a proper free roaming rpg i'd definately be interested in investing.

if a remake was done and it was like defiance (Raziel May Cry...) i'd most likely avoid it like i'm going to avoid the upcoming a-team movie

- SpiritShift -
31st Dec 2009, 06:42
Mmm. Keep hoping, people. It would be nice...

Paradoks
31st Dec 2009, 10:06
the game's battle system was only good in the first one because it was on ps1, but the other games had horrible gameplay, except for the puzzles n all that.


after the 2nd game everything went really downhill, even though the story was always solid.




if a remake was done and it was like defiance (Raziel May Cry...) i'd most likely avoid it

I will probably never understand all this Defiance hate. :rolleyes:

Linikratyo
31st Dec 2009, 12:22
I will probably never understand all this Defiance hate. :rolleyes:

Me too. The only thing I didn't like about it was that the Kain parts were rushed :(

Linikratyo
31st Dec 2009, 14:57
Watch this btw: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IZ-s9Sx6QWg&feature=player_embedded#

sin_of_envy
31st Dec 2009, 16:06
Watch this btw: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IZ-s9Sx6QWg&feature=player_embedded#

Damn awesome, looks great so far.

Devils@Dusk
31st Dec 2009, 21:15
I think Raziel's story could have been on one disc and kain's on another... but either way... i love defiance

VipericVampire
4th Jan 2010, 19:13
1) Sure.

2) As others said, you'd have to get the rights from SE/EIDOS/CD. And it would preferable if you spoke to Amy Hennig or the two other directors in the series (BO & BO2).

3) Yes, I'd buy it... if it was GOOD.

If you decide to make it, good luck. :D

OugaBooga1
17th Jan 2010, 00:10
1st of all, any defiance hate IMHO & ONLY MY opinion was due to it not being enuff "soul reaverish"
It wasn't as amazing texturally as SR1 & 2 was for their time IMHO & felt shorter & "RUSHED" .
1 main gripe was the newer cam angle which i still hate to this day even with the so called "fix".
Amy herself said that she KNEW she was leaving the studio 1/2 way in production & in some "mystical" way i think it reflected it.

PERSONALLY I think that LoK NEEDS a "masterful" remake of it's "Most" inspirational title & that IMHO is Blood Omen 1 & or Soul Reaver 1.Additional content SHOULD be provided so as to fill in some gaps & add new places/removed places to venture in.
For me it is really hard to ABSOLUTELY pick between bo & sr since BOTH captivated & incapsulated my attention 110% in their own special way.

I MY SELF would vote for a Remake before making a brand new chapter in the LoK saga.
It would allow new comers to relive the same experience we did when it 1st came out & Rebuild a MORE solid fan base (vampire stuff is spreading like wild fire these days).
I have waited Soo long for all ends to meet & can wait longer but "IF" i can relive ALL those absorbing moments from 95-2000 in glorious DX11 graphics then So Should it BE !!!

Shrykull_the1st
17th Jan 2010, 00:42
Can you imagine a SR1 were the vast scenery extends through the landscape until your eyes can cease to see it. These new generation games are simply stunning in that regard.. Imagine for instance you're in the Sunlight Glyph area and you look up and you see the enormous tower of the Silent Cathedral. Things like this would give an entirely different feel to the game; less individual areas and more of a whole world...it would be amazing....but officially, I don't see this being released....

OugaBooga1
17th Jan 2010, 01:00
Can you imagine a SR1 were the vast scenery extends through the landscape until your eyes can cease to see it. These new generation games are simply stunning in that regard.. Imagine for instance you're in the Sunlight Glyph area and you look up and you see the enormous tower of the Silent Cathedral. Things like this would give an entirely different feel to the game; less individual areas and more of a whole world...it would be amazing....but officially, I don't see this being released....

YES i CAN imagine & so i DO:)
I can verily say that if we ALL imagine together we can make it Happen.
Lastly all i can say is if you have a product that is "successful" in captivating the minds & hearts as BO & SR did then it Should be easy to see how adding to such a succulent recipe would ONLY mean The time is RIPE for LoK picking:)

I AM on fire knowing that SE is here to tender ripe fruits.

Paradoks
17th Jan 2010, 09:52
I think that BO1 remake (or to a lesser extent - SR1 remake) is the only sensible decision for Eidos/SE at this point.
While there are still many people waiting for the conclusion, you have to remember that several years have past since the last instalment, and the interest fades over time. Therefore making a well funded sequel, that basically requires knowledge of the prior games and is aimed at niche audience is not a wise decision.
A remake on the other hand has no such requirements - it sends a message: "If you didn't play previous games, it's not a problem - you are not missing any back-story".
It also can reignite the interest in the franchise - "You liked this remake? - There are 5 other games in the series that you can play".
If it works - the chance for a proper sequel is greatly increased. If it doesn't - well... then we would be in the same place where we are now.
And final reason - we know that most people responsible for LoK are no longer working at CD. So regardless of who is working on a game (CD or some other company) it will be a new team. A remake would show how well they can handle the source material and if they can capture the soul (;)) of the series.
A BO1 remake would be a huge opportunity, but it would also be a great challenge - imagine all areas, all towns, all caves in the game. With 2-D sprites over a decade ago, one building reoccurring in every town was not a problem. Today it is.

OugaBooga1
17th Jan 2010, 22:47
I have posted somewhere else that BO1 would be my 1st choice for a remake & for similar reasons 1 being you don't need to know theprevious story & if interested you can play previous games.The story is already there, all they need to do is 3D it & i don't know how long or hard that would be.
1 thing i would want to make sure doesn't change is the music, maybe remaster it for better quality.

Paradoks
20th Jan 2010, 11:50
I have posted somewhere else that BO1 would be my 1st choice for a remake & for similar reasons 1 being you don't need to know theprevious story & if interested you can play previous games.The story is already there, all they need to do is 3D it & i don't know how long or hard that would be.
1 thing i would want to make sure doesn't change is the music, maybe remaster it for better quality.

As I said in the other thread - it essentially means writing the game from the beginning - that is at least 2 years of work if they want to make a serious attempt.

One_Winged_Angel
24th Jan 2010, 00:34
I wouldn't argue with a remake, as long as it's done well, I don't need any glitches tarnishing my memories.

A reboot or spin-off of the series could be different, I can live with the ending that I wrote in my head, so I'd be interested in where they could take it if they chose this route.

Just my 2 cents.

EDIT: On a side note, when Crystal Dynamics were handed the reins to the Tomb Raider franchise, the proved that as a developer they could successfully reboot a failing franchise. So going into the future, maybe rebooting a franchise that was merely put on hold and has a solid fan base, might not seem like a bad idea.

Corpse Core
4th Feb 2010, 04:25
While I agree that a remake would be awesome, unless you can get Eidos/Square Enix Europe to back you on it all that you'll get is cease and desist papers thrown in your face, especially if you try and sell the remakes. So, I recommend the same as everyone else, make a polished demo and send it Eidos and hope they grant you a license.

Also, I hate to be a kill joy, but we're not getting a new Legacy of Kain. The reason? It's been so long since any Legacy of Kain title has been on the shelves that it wouldn't appeal to anyone new to this series for the very fact they weren't around for the beginning of the story. Actually, the only reason Legacy of Kain is even still around is because of its fan base. Think about it, the last thing we heard was that Dark Prophecy had been cancelled, and that was roughly 6 years ago.

As for Eidos doing any remakes? That's not happening either, because even a remake, while not as time consuming, takes a lot of money. One example is the remakes for God of War for the PS3, while they didn't have to redo the story they did have to completely redo it on a new graphics engine which cost thousands of man hours and millions in funds. One factor in the decision to do a remake was that God of War both 1 and 2 sold extremely well, each installment was put into the "greatest hits category." Which sadly none of the Legacy of Kain games, to my knowledge, ever achieved.

However, there is light at the end of the tunnel, just depends how far your willing to go. Me and a few others are doing work on a Legacy of Kain mmorpg for are contribution to the series and yes we're looking for help. The point is this people, if we actually want another Legacy of Kain game we're going to have to work for it. When a game company says "we can neither confirm or deny," it means they aren't planning on anything and it's been left in a closet somewhere . So if you want something to happen then support a fan project, even join in on the effort. Just don't sit there hoping Eidos will get back around to Legacy of Kain, their devotion is to whatever brings in the most money and our beloved series didn't make the cut.

Paradoks
4th Feb 2010, 08:44
While I agree that a remake would be awesome, unless you can get Eidos/Square Enix Europe to back you on it all that you'll get is cease and desist papers thrown in your face, especially if you try and sell the remakes. So, I recommend the same as everyone else, make a polished demo and send it Eidos and hope they grant you a license.
Eidos/SE will not grant a license to amateurs (no matter how talented they may be). The only way you are making a licensed game is by having a real game development company, with actual funding and experience. Then you may have a slim chance. Or you may gather enormous amount of money and try to buy the rights. It doesn't necessarily mean they will be interested - even Warren Spector failed to acquire the rights for Deus Ex.

Also, I hate to be a kill joy, but we're not getting a new Legacy of Kain. The reason? It's been so long since any Legacy of Kain title has been on the shelves that it wouldn't appeal to anyone new to this series for the very fact they weren't around for the beginning of the story.
And this is why we are discussing a remake instead of a direct sequel. The remake could include "Dark Chronicle Antology" that would explain the whole story - a poor solution but a solution nonetheless.

As for the time that passed since the last instalment - let's take a look at a few examples:

Doom 2 - 1994; Doom 3 - 2004;
Starcraft: Brood War - 1998; Starcraft 2: Wings of Liberty - 2010 (probably);
Prince of Persia 2: The Shadow and the Flame - 1994; Prince of Persia 3D - 1999 - it didn't meet expectations and yet: Prince of Persia: the Sands of Time - 2003;

You can say that all these are huge franchises and it was a matter of time before they would get a sequel. True, but there are other examples:

American McGee's Alice - 2000; sequel currently in development;
Sam & Max Hit the Road - 1993; Sam & Max Save the World - 2007 (2 cancelled games between 2001 and 2004)
Majesty: The Fantasy Kingdom Sim - 2000 (Northern Expansion in 2001); Majesty 2 - 2009 (one cancelled sequel around 2003)
Electronic Arts renewing trademark protection of it's "dead" franchises and talking about reviving Bullfrogs games.

It is never too late to bring a franchise back.

As for Eidos doing any remakes? That's not happening either, because even a remake, while not as time consuming, takes a lot of money.
A proper remake requires just as much resources as a new game. It didn't exactly stop CD from making Tomb Raider: Anniversary.

One example is the remakes for God of War for the PS3, while they didn't have to redo the story they did have to completely redo it on a new graphics engine which cost thousands of man hours and millions in funds.
Actually I'm quite sure that GoW Collection did cost next to nothing to make (relatively of course). It's the exact same game in higher resolution. They had the source code - that's the only thing you really need while porting. While the hardware is very different it is also much more powerful - no need for optimising. PS3 used to have software backward compatibility - it's just making sure that emulator runs one game properly with some additional tweaking.

One factor in the decision to do a remake was that God of War both 1 and 2 sold extremely well, each installment was put into the "greatest hits category." Which sadly none of the Legacy of Kain games, to my knowledge, ever achieved.
GoW 1 and 2 sold well but nowhere near extremely well. According to vgchartz 3.21m and 2.59m - for a game of that calibre it's rather disappointing compared to Halo 3 with 10.77m.

As for LoK sales - there are no numbers released so we can only speculate. But a game that does not earn money does not receive 4 sequels.

However, there is light at the end of the tunnel, just depends how far your willing to go. Me and a few others are doing work on a Legacy of Kain mmorpg for are contribution to the series and yes we're looking for help. The point is this people, if we actually want another Legacy of Kain game we're going to have to work for it.
It will still be just a fan game. I am not trying to discourage you, but a fan made game is not the same thing as official one. I will address this project further in another thread.

When a game company says "we can neither confirm or deny," it means they aren't planning on anything and it's been left in a closet somewhere .
"We can neither confirm nor deny" usually means: "We are working on it but can't confirm due to legal reasons". What you are describing is: "We have no plans at this moment".

So if you want something to happen then support a fan project, even join in on the effort. Just don't sit there hoping Eidos will get back around to Legacy of Kain, their devotion is to whatever brings in the most money and our beloved series didn't make the cut.
I agree that doing nothing is the worst thing a "fan" could do (Raziel'sRevenge said what everyone can do to support LoK at this point). But I can't agree that Eidos won't do anything with the series. Much less popular franchises have been revived, and Eidos (or some other company) will revive LoK when the time is right. The fact that they still own the rights says enough. I have quoted this numerous times, but I feel like I should do it again:

Page 3:
Interview with Amy Hennig (http://www.industrygamers.com/news/interview-amy-hennig-on-making-uncharted-2-maximizing-ps3-and-more/):

All I can tell you is that Eidos and Crystal Dynamics legitimately love that franchise. If anyone thinks it's sort of been thrown in the dustbin without any thought or care, that's not the case at all. I know they would love to revive it when the time is right and resources are there. I'm sure it's something they talk about; whether it'll ever happen I don't know.
I think Amy Hennig knows more than anyone here, about how Eidos feels about the series.

Both Deus Ex and Thief are getting sequels. I don't see why Legacy of Kain wouldn't. If it was dead, staked and buried this forum would have been here (http://forums.eidosgames.com/forumdisplay.php?f=112), and we wouldn't have this conversation.
If a hopeless pessimist like myself still has some hope, then it must mean something. ;)

Corpse Core
4th Feb 2010, 09:37
Okay, I'll admit I was somewhat negative about the whole thing and you've picked my opinion apart pretty well. So perhaps there is a chance, I'm just having a hard time seeing that right now. As for licensing, sure its a very small chance but no harm in asking, even if Eidos/Square Enix has an ellitist attitude.

Escaton
4th Feb 2010, 22:44
All of the five games except Defiance were rereleased as Greatest Hits. Not one of the games except BO2 received under a 75% aggregate critical score. Blood Omen was Silicon Knights' most lauded and highest selling game. Soul Reaver sold 1.5 million copies and is considered one of the best PS1 games ever developed.

Uninformed pessimism is annoying.

Corpse Core
5th Feb 2010, 03:42
Now if you recall I said "to my knowledge" meaning I was accepting the fact I could very well be wrong. I was speaking from my experience not from indepth research. So try not to judge me too harshly here.....

Assuming what you said isnt blind optimism, it does provide some light of hope for the series, as it says it could still happen. However, far off in the future that may be....

Escaton
5th Feb 2010, 16:38
Oh, I'm not trying to judge or anything. Didn't mean offence. It's just that you're the hundreth person who's used the same incorrect argument - "The series didn't sell well, was never considered good" etc.

I wouldn't say there's blind optimism in my above statements. Like Paradoks I'm a hopeless pessimist too... I just stick to the facts ;)

Corpse Core
6th Feb 2010, 00:16
What you said does raise a question, if all the games made the "greatest hits" category, then why did Eidos say Defiance didnt sell like they hoped it would? After all that category is an accomplishment for any game really.

The_Hylden
6th Feb 2010, 02:36
Because Eidos was so far in the hole at the time, they needed something to not only sell well, but extremely high, because they were facing bankruptcy at the time.

Corpse Core
6th Feb 2010, 11:19
Explains why Dark Prophecy was cancelled and why they sold out to Square....

Escaton
6th Feb 2010, 13:38
I think Blincoln knows where to find the financial report on Defiance's sales. It didn't hit a million, but was way over 100,000 at worst.

Raziel'sRevenge
10th Feb 2010, 18:14
1) Of course I want a new game.

2) Just shot off a PM to you.

3) I'll take whatever I can get. I don't care if they give us a 2D sidescroller with no speech but rather just horrendously edited text and graphics that would make an Atari look like a PS3, I just want something, anything at this point.

And I'm glad to see that you're taking up an initiative and helping out, don't let anyone tell you otherwise: you are making a difference, no matter how small it may seem.

Paradoks
10th Feb 2010, 20:20
3) I'll take whatever I can get. I don't care if they give us a 2D sidescroller with no speech but rather just horrendously edited text and graphics that would make an Atari look like a PS3, I just want something, anything at this point.
I wouldn't mind as long as it would be just another fan project. If we are talking about official game (OP asked who had the rights to the series, which he has no chance to acquire anyway :p), then I have the exact opposite attitude. I don't want yet another LoK game. I want a worthy addition to the series. Honestly, if we are to get a poor product, that does not meet the standards and gets a 50% score on Metacritic, then it is better for the series to be left as it is.
I really don't want a situation where the franchise is revived only to be killed permanently.

Raziel'sRevenge
10th Feb 2010, 22:42
I wouldn't mind as long as it would be just another fan project. If we are talking about official game (OP asked who had the rights to the series, which he has no chance to acquire anyway :p), then I have the exact opposite attitude. I don't want yet another LoK game. I want a worthy addition to the series. Honestly, if we are to get a poor product, that does not meet the standards and gets a 50% score on Metacritic, then it is better for the series to be left as it is.
I really don't want a situation where the franchise is revived only to be killed permanently.

True, I should rephrase that: I don't care about graphics, I don't care about sound, all I care about is a good addition to the series. The plot is what I'm in it for, and if they can wrap this up with an ending worthy of the previous games then I'll be happy.

makugx
27th Feb 2012, 18:14
Wow. this post has certainly brought a lot of attention and I forgot I posted it :P
If in the future eidos doesn't do anything before I do, I'll get hands on work.
If there's a remake that NEEDS to be done for the sake of mankind and vampires...(funny huh?)
I will do something about it.

I know that this has soooooo much potential. IT just needs to be revised properly.

Vampmaster
27th Feb 2012, 20:19
I loathe the idea of a reboot as almost every one I've seen ends up as completely dumbed down butchering of the storyline. However what could work is something a bit like they did in star trek. Having a character (Kain obviously) from the original timeline go back in time and start again in the new one.

This could be done in a few ways. You start off as young Kain and either encounter old Kain from Defiance or completely switch over to him later in the game. While playing as young Kain, you get to break into the chronoplast and see the visions of the future that enabled him to build his empire and eventually led him to cast Raziel into the abyss. The point you start at would either be immediately after BO1 with his battle against HL-possessed Mortanius as the intro, or for a full reboot start at the beginning of BO1, with the twist that you're in the second timeline with William the Just already killed 50 years earlier. This could explain the paradox of why the Kain of this timeline would go back and kill him even though he never became the Nemesis. The presence of old Kain and Raziel prophecies in the game would help maintain the previous games as still cannon, without alienating new players.

makugx
27th Feb 2012, 20:34
well of course. there are a number of ways of doing this and I think the best way to approach it, would be in a highly proffesional manner discussing things properly.
None of this will be done with $ upfront, therefore all your ideas are good and dandy but in the real world we must make things work according to the established system.

Once stuff gets rolling at eidos, we'll see.

Vampmaster
27th Feb 2012, 23:16
I didn't mean to cause any offence. I just care a lot about this series and I've most of the remakes seen end up ruining the original stories.

makugx
28th Feb 2012, 00:41
I don't understand why you think I'm offended.
Nothing like that happened. what you say makes sense, but it doesn't touch many realistic points.
It's nice, but neither one is in a position to make things happen right now.
If I could do something about it, it wouldn't be released for at least 8 years..so.

FearGhoul
28th Feb 2012, 03:52
I loathe the idea of a reboot as almost every one I've seen ends up as completely dumbed down butchering of the storyline.

Yeah, the Neon Genesis Evangelion remake comes to mind.... And this coming from someone who absolutely loved the original. Hell, just look at the avatar I use here.

makugx
28th Feb 2012, 18:58
My bro is a fan of Evangelion. It kicks ass. but I'd want to put some serious efffort into this series and try to combined them with a little bit of real history so it has a bit more credibility to it. It's a nice touch to any SCI FI story, just like METAL GEAR did.

Vampmaster
28th Feb 2012, 19:39
I don't understand why you think I'm offended.
Nothing like that happened. what you say makes sense, but it doesn't touch many realistic points.
It's nice, but neither one is in a position to make things happen right now.
If I could do something about it, it wouldn't be released for at least 8 years..so.

You implied I wasn't being professional and I thought that might have been because of my comment about hating reboots. In what way do you think was I being unrealistic? If you're talking about how much money it would make, then surely the best thing to do would be to maintain the things that old fans enjoyed about the series without putting off new fans. That's all I was attempting to do with my suggestion.

EDIT: I know you can't please everyone, but you should still try to appeal to the widest variety of people as possible.

makugx
29th Feb 2012, 02:00
ok.
Cool. I agree.
I think new elements should be added to the equation without compromising the original concept.

OugaBooga1
24th Mar 2012, 13:57
True, I should rephrase that: I don't care about graphics, I don't care about sound, all I care about is a good addition to the series. The plot is what I'm in it for, and if they can wrap this up with an ending worthy of the previous games then I'll be happy.
Wrong.
@ this point & time a "remake" Better have great graphics & sound or else your wasting $ & my time.


I loathe the idea of a reboot as almost every one I've seen ends up as completely dumbed down butchering of the storyline. However what could work is something a bit like they did in star trek. Having a character (Kain obviously) from the original timeline go back in time and start again in the new one.

This could be done in a few ways. You start off as young Kain and either encounter old Kain from Defiance or completely switch over to him later in the game. While playing as young Kain, you get to break into the chronoplast and see the visions of the future that enabled him to build his empire and eventually led him to cast Raziel into the abyss. The point you start at would either be immediately after BO1 with his battle against HL-possessed Mortanius as the intro, or for a full reboot start at the beginning of BO1, with the twist that you're in the second timeline with William the Just already killed 50 years earlier. This could explain the paradox of why the Kain of this timeline would go back and kill him even though he never became the Nemesis. The presence of old Kain and Raziel prophecies in the game would help maintain the previous games as still cannon, without alienating new players.

Totally agree if it's a "reboot"


I didn't mean to cause any offence. I just care a lot about this series and I've most of the remakes seen end up ruining the original stories.
I hope you meant "reboot" & Not "remake' because remakes are usually successful since the formula is unchanged for the most part.
Reboots are a coin toss hit or miss


If I could do something about it, it wouldn't be released for at least 8 years..so.
You my friend would be entering daikatana & duke nukem forever territory by waiting so long.Just the fact you could blurt out "Atleast 8yrs" release date is a immediate FAIL !:scratch:
P.S.Oh 1 other game that had a long production time was gran turismo 5 & imho when compared to the advancements Forza 2,3,4 made in that time frame make GT5 a petrolheads Fail.Yeah it's a good game if it was 2003/4 but it had so many bugs, lossy UI, dumb color collecting scheme, useless track editor, Only 200 premium cockpit models, too many same model japanese cars, rain effect leaves a ugly pixelized halo around car, bad textures throughout the game...etc...etc.
Mind you i still like to play it & it's being updated with fixes often but it's initial release condition was a JOKE.

makugx
24th Mar 2012, 17:15
You my friend would be entering daikatana & duke nukem forever territory by waiting so long.Just the fact you could blurt out "Atleast 8yrs" release date is a immediate FAIL !:scratch:
P.S.Oh 1 other game that had a long production time was gran turismo 5 & imho when compared to the advancements Forza 2,3,4 made in that time frame make GT5 a petrolheads Fail.Yeah it's a good game if it was 2003/4 but it had so many bugs, lossy UI, dumb color collecting scheme, useless track editor, Only 200 premium cockpit models, too many same model japanese cars, rain effect leaves a ugly pixelized halo around car, bad textures throughout the game...etc...etc.
Mind you i still like to play it & it's being updated with fixes often but it's initial release condition was a JOKE.[/QUOTE]

no, you misunderstood.
If I could do something about it, I wouldn't be able to start the project until at least 4 years from now. then it would be 8 yrs total or so to finish the project.
I think vgames are taking less n less time to finish as the time goes by, but 4 yrs is the usual time frame. if it can be done in less, well, great.

it takes a lot of work, a business plan, a good way to make a comeback tot he series, a lot of money into it, planning, ppl for it.
its not easy.

The_Hylden
24th Mar 2012, 17:30
Why would you wait four years to start the project? Rereading things, are you saying you'd want them to mill over ideas for it for four years first? That's a lot of time. Huge. If a company can't get the idea-to-finished-product done in 3-4 years, there's a real problem there. There are only so many meetings you can have about what should be done, and the plan, before you start writing and hashing the story out for real.

OugaBooga1
24th Mar 2012, 21:44
I think vgames are taking less n less time to finish as the time goes by, but 4 yrs is the usual time frame. if it can be done in less, well, great.
.

you are correct in 1 way>> later on in a consoles life it takes less time to spit out a game since "if" you had already done 1 before you have a better understanding of the console & usually are using the same engine or slightly modified 1.
Wrong when it comes to a game that's 1st/new in the begining of a consoles life.
Just try & remember how long games in dev for a ps4/ xbox 720 will take & how long that same dev will take near the end of those console's lives.
you're prolly right it will take 3 yrs for a great game initially but later on they'll be pumping out every 1-1 1/2 yrs.

Lastly>> we all have seen games that take a Loooong time like 5+yrs but there aren't that many that do so.

makugx
24th Mar 2012, 23:35
Why would you wait four years to start the project? Rereading things, are you saying you'd want them to mill over ideas for it for four years first? That's a lot of time. Huge. If a company can't get the idea-to-finished-product done in 3-4 years, there's a real problem there. There are only so many meetings you can have about what should be done, and the plan, before you start writing and hashing the story out for real.


UGH. I'm saying that if I can actually dedicate time to this, which is one of my goals, I wouldn't be able to get to it in 4 yrs due to other stuff going on in my personal life.
THEN in 4 yrs I'll have money and hopefully time to do this.

oogabooga. NO.

The_Hylden
25th Mar 2012, 00:11
I actually didn't notice how old this thread was when I posted. Never mind my earlier post.