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View Full Version : ABILITIES Evolved abilities to go with the evolved skins



Vampmaster
4th Mar 2014, 00:16
I've been thinking about the new evolved skins and how a lot of people have mentioned the more SR1 type abilities at some point or other. If they're starting to look more like they did in SR1, they the abilities should follow suit and at least show hints of what they're evolving towards. I think it would please a lot of fans who have been wanting to feel like they're playing as that clan from SR1.

This is what I've come up with for the Turelim and have tried to make sure it doesn't go against the melee vs ranged rule. This is technically not melee, but is still short ranged, so it shouldn't unbalance the game.

TK crush - Telekinetic orb shrinks around the enemy immediately in front of you. Does damage, has chance of Blood Omen 1 type implode.
Immolate - I imagined the TK crush to have a similar range as the immolate ability from Blood Omen 2 and then I figured pyrokinesis was sort of the same thing as TK. So this would be a variation on the TK crush ability.
TK deflection - Weaker version of the Ignore Pain ability, but has a chance of deflecting projectiles back at the attacker.
Avalanche - Not sure on the name for this one, but I was thinking the Turelim could levitate rocks alongside him in a sort of wide ranged version of the move where he rushes at an enemy. Maybe it does less damage but is easier to target.

There should be some sort of weapon for the Dumahim. I'm thinking of something surgically attatched where they have the long stub on one arm in SR1. Also something involving webbing or wall crawling for the Zephonim. Maybe, like someone else may have mentioned they could get increased maneuverability (sideways) on walls and maybe camouflage themselves so they look like a mere shadow when climbing.

I had some other ideas, but I'm too tired to write them now.

GenFeelGood
4th Mar 2014, 06:18
For the TK crush I could see that being the new charge ability, stand stationary for a period of time while it charges before it can release , just like in Soul Reaver, with the same affects but less damage than the charge so as not to make it op, since it has the advantage of range.

TK deflect sounds interesting, deflects attacks, except for blast damage of course, but disabling attack and only able to deflect a percentage, with that percentage decreasing quickly and faster while under prolonged attack.

Not sure about immolation, fire seems to be all for the humans so far; but maybe as a variation for TK crush, you could turn the straight line shot into more of a mortar style one, replacing the knock back effect with with an AOE blast area where ever the orb hits, turning from a walking cannon into a walking mortar.

Sdoots
5th Mar 2014, 01:28
I'm going to have to be the jerk here and say I'm totally against this. It just sounds like a balance nightmare waiting to happen. There's already plenty of variables with the existing classes, perks, weapons, and abilities, adding in additional abilities exclusive to the skins that only high level players have access to is probably going to end with more frustration than satisfaction.

k8Faust
5th Mar 2014, 03:41
I wouldn't mind having Evolved abilities that are merely cosmetic overlays to existing abilities.

GenFeelGood
5th Mar 2014, 04:04
I wouldn't mind having Evolved abilities that are merely cosmetic overlays to existing abilities.

That is exactly what I'm saying. They don't have to create a balance issue by being more powerful or effective. It's just something different to opt into using like the rest of the equipment and abilities in this game.

JanusDominus
5th Mar 2014, 10:06
I wouldn't mind having Evolved abilities that are merely cosmetic overlays to existing abilities.

This.

Vampmaster
5th Mar 2014, 10:13
I'm going to have to be the jerk here and say I'm totally against this. It just sounds like a balance nightmare waiting to happen. There's already plenty of variables with the existing classes, perks, weapons, and abilities, adding in additional abilities exclusive to the skins that only high level players have access to is probably going to end with more frustration than satisfaction.

Who says they'd be inherently superior to the existing abilities? SE/Psyonix have been saying all along that every ability would have a trade-off to keep the game from being pay to win. These wouldn't be any different to what the developers have been doing all along every time they introduce a new ability.

When I said evolved, I meant in terms of how the theme of the ability relates to the lore behind the vampire's evolved forms, not that the new abilities would give an advantage over less leveled up players.


That is exactly what I'm saying. They don't have to create a balance issue by being more powerful or effective. It's just something different to opt into using like the rest of the equipment and abilities in this game.

I never said "more powerful or effective". See my comment above. I'm not talking powered up in any way shape or form.

GenFeelGood
5th Mar 2014, 18:47
I never said "more powerful or effective". See my comment above. I'm not talking powered up in any way shape or form.

I was actually responding to Sdoots concern over what it would do to balance while also agreeing with K8Faust and you.

I can picture it, instead charge or marathon charge, where you stampede the mass of your body into the humans, you stand stationary for a moment to charge the TK, like the Turelim did in Soul Reaver, and release it into the humans, causing damage and the same knock back affect.
Maybe they could make it weaker than the charge but I don't think they should since it would have its own drawbacks. For instance, you couldn't direct the TK's path once released, unlike the charge, so there is higher probability of missing completely with a range that I imagine would be no longer that the standard charge and also, unlike the charge you now have to close the gap between you and the humans that the charge would have done for you.
I would be more inclined towards playing Turelim if these powers came to be, turning the Turelim from a "Walking Meat Shield" into a "Walking TK Cannon."

Sdoots
6th Mar 2014, 19:32
How is that not an advantage over the standard ram? You're dealing damage without putting yourself in harm. Yes, there are the drawbacks you mentioned, but you are also giving people a "free damage" button if they have line of sight.

From the cosmetic angle, I'm just not big on having a bunch of flashy effects for the sole purpose of "this player is a special snowflake". Sorry.

Vampmaster
6th Mar 2014, 22:17
How is that not an advantage over the standard ram? You're dealing damage without putting yourself in harm. Yes, there are the drawbacks you mentioned, but you are also giving people a "free damage" button if they have line of sight.

From the cosmetic angle, I'm just not big on having a bunch of flashy effects for the sole purpose of "this player is a special snowflake". Sorry.

Are tou referring to GenFeelGood's suggestion or one of mine?

Sdoots
7th Mar 2014, 00:18
FeelGood. Sorry, should have quoted.

GenFeelGood
7th Mar 2014, 04:44
How is that not an advantage over the standard ram? You're dealing damage without putting yourself in harm.

Of course your still in harms way. You can't control its path once its released and you have to wait a moment to charge the attack. In order to even use this ability effectively you have to be facing the humans, where you can see them and they can see you, and Turelims aren't that hard to miss. You would be completely exposed and, just like with the Dumahim's pounce, if you take enough damage the charge would automatically be knocked out. Risk of damage aside, you could also be stopped by the stun or knock back of a charged war bow, bola, or throwing knives.

GenFeelGood
5th May 2014, 03:03
Just giving the thread a slight bump since evolved skins are right around the corner and to introduce another evloved Turelim ability, this one a main (charge with rmb and trigger with lmb). I call it The Gallows.

Picture the first step of the TK from LoK: Defiance
http://i1-games.softpedia-static.com/screenshots/Legacy-of-Kain-Defiance-Unofficial-Patch_1.jpg
meets the force grip from Star Wars.
http://customstarwars.x3.hu/holokron/dooku_choke_kenobi.jpg
You grip the human by throat with the TK and raise him a good distance into the air and hold it for a sceond. The choking causes half damage, and the rest comes from the fall. That is, unless the human isn't pounced down by a stalking Reaver or snatched away by a passing Sentinel and doesn't those sound like fun combos?

To keep it from being op lets put the same limiting factors as dominate mind, you have to be close, you to be in a spot where you can be spotted, and the charge surrounding the ability is just as challenging to maintain.

What do you think?

Obisher
5th May 2014, 12:42
How about a force projectile similar to one seen by the Turelim in Soul Reaver? Actually, it would be similar to Sentinel's wing flap, only it would be focused in one line (like Tyrant's shockwave) and would have longer range. And it could be aimed in any direction, so you could shoot a human who is on lower or higher ground than you. Again, force projectile wasn't too fast in the original game so if the speed of it was similar in Nosgoth, it should be possible to evade.

For example, it would do 200 dmg, would be able to knock down enemies, cooldown time would be approx. 15 sec. And I'm guessing it should go to primary ability slot (where ground slam and shockwave are).

Voradors
5th May 2014, 14:15
I am firmly against any abilities that require a high leveled character, or max level character. That is essentially what this is, and it would be bad and would be the cause of so much *****ing.

Reskinning abilities may be worth doing, and the dev's time, if it was something they charged for.......like a DOTA 2 Arcana set or some such.

GenFeelGood
5th May 2014, 15:50
I am firmly against any abilities that require a high leveled character, or max level character. That is essentially what this is, and it would be bad and would be the cause of so much *****ing.

Reskinning abilities may be worth doing, and the dev's time, if it was something they charged for.......like a DOTA 2 Arcana set or some such.

I don't think any of us are saying that these should only go to players who maxed the class. Maybe there should be the option of purchasing them with some of those class unlocks we get as we level the classes up, but a good deal of gold for purchase would also suffice as well.

Voradors
5th May 2014, 16:05
From my knowledge, evolved skins are unlocked when you get level 20 with a vampire (and when they are added to the game), and the OP wanted these new and improved abilities to be tied in with that.

Even if it is purchasable, i still dont like the idea of changing the way the game is so certain items or abilities are level dependent. At the moment you can purchase anything you want when you have the required gold or runestones, adding a level requirement as well would add more of a 'required grind' feel to the game.

GenFeelGood
5th May 2014, 16:14
adding a level requirement as well would add more of a 'required grind' feel to the game.

I'm not saying a level requirement, I'm saying leveling as an option by using one of those unlock tokens we gain after every 5 levels in with a class. Just like with the deceiver, scout, and sentinel: you can choose to buy it with gold or you can choose to buy it with a class unlock, any class unlock.

PencileyePirate
5th May 2014, 16:26
I wouldn't mind having Evolved abilities that are merely cosmetic overlays to existing abilities.

^ this would be pretty cool.

Voradors
5th May 2014, 18:36
I'm not saying a level requirement

I mentioned that the OP was implying that. The original poster.

GenFeelGood
5th May 2014, 19:24
I mentioned that the OP was implying that. The original poster.

Oh okay, I don't really see Vampmaster actually say that this would be reserved for those with maxed classes, but I see how it might be implied. None of us what that though, at best the evolved abilities we are wanting will be something purely cosmetic with no extreme advantage over any of the other abilities. Like for instance what was proposed by Obisher, a new take on shockwave that looks like the TK projectiles from Soul Reaver. They could have the same damage and effects just a different attack animation.

Vampmaster
5th May 2014, 21:42
I specifically said *not a projectile*. Telekinesis is the ability to move objects with your mind and there are other things that can be used for that aren't a long ranged blast. I tried to give examples, but you guys went straight to "oh, you mean the projectiles?".

Having said that, a telekinetic blast would indeed be pretty similar to the shock wave ability. Perhaps it could be some variation on that.

GenFeelGood
5th May 2014, 21:56
I specifically said *not a projectile*. Telekinesis is the ability to move objects with your mind and there are other things that can be used for that aren't a long ranged blast. I tried to give examples, but you guys went straight to "oh, you mean the projectiles?".

Sorry, I didn't catch what you were after with TK when I first posted on this thread, but you can't talk about TK and the clans without thinking of the Turelim's projectile blast from Soul Reaver. I actually posted an idea here for a TK ability called the Gallows that is more along the lines of what you are after with TK abilities.

Vampmaster
5th May 2014, 23:00
Sorry, I didn't catch what you were after with TK when I first posted on this thread, but you can't talk about TK and the clans without thinking of the Turelim's projectile blast from Soul Reaver. I actually posted an idea here for a TK ability called the Gallows that is more along the lines of what you are after with TK abilities.

I always figured the Turelim would be able to a variety of things with their telekinesis and the projectile was just the one that fit in best with the gameplay and that the team had time for. It makes sense to me that if they'd had unlimited time and resources, there'd be dozens of abilities for each enemy in SR1, different genders, clothes, facial features and even voices, but few games, if any, ever get that sort of budget.

GenFeelGood
6th May 2014, 00:14
I always figured the Turelim would be able to a variety of things with their telekinesis and the projectile was just the one that fit in best with the gameplay and that the team had time for. It makes sense to me that if they'd had unlimited time and resources, there'd be dozens of abilities for each enemy in SR1, different genders, clothes, facial features and even voices, but few games, if any, ever get that sort of budget.

I couldn't agree with you more and I hope that we get a variety of abilities with each class, especially TK type abilities for the Turelim.

Another evolved ability idea, this revolving around the Dumahim and that tongue of theirs. You get in pounce position but (instead of pouncing) the tongue stretches out like a toads, hooks into the human, and from there it can either draw blood from the human that can slightly heal the Dumahim or pulls the human right over to the Dumahim; even to the top of a roof if its close enough. Which would you want?
http://www.nosgoth.net/Soul_Reaver/dumahimF01.jpghttp://vixenvarsity.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/01/xmentoad.jpg

Vampmaster
6th May 2014, 06:38
I couldn't agree with you more and I hope that we get a variety of abilities with each class, especially TK type abilities for the Turelim.

Another evolved ability idea, this revolving around the Dumahim and that tongue of theirs. You get in pounce position but (instead of pouncing) the tongue stretches out like a toads, hooks into the human, and from there it can either draw blood from the human that can slightly heal the Dumahim or pulls the human right over to the Dumahim; even to the top of a roof if its close enough. Which would you want?
http://www.nosgoth.net/Soul_Reaver/dumahimF01.jpghttp://vixenvarsity.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/01/xmentoad.jpg

Either would be good, but I like the idea of the Zephonim using a strand of web (NOT the coccoon of fleshy substance and DEFINATELY NOT damage or incapacitation) to pull an enemy from a distance, so just using the tongue for the drain/whip would keep from treading on the Zephonim ability.

RainaAudron
6th May 2014, 13:39
Dumahim didn´t resort to using their tongues only until they lost their minds/ability to use weapons (which is about 100 years before Raziel comes back).

Vampmaster
6th May 2014, 14:10
Dumahim didn´t resort to using their tongues only until they lost their minds/ability to use weapons (which is about 100 years before Raziel comes back).

The Dumahim should really have weapons in Nosgoth. That reminds me, Corey mentioned issues about attaching and detaching stowed weapons, but Soul Reaver had a solution for that when Raziel was grabbing stuff.

GenFeelGood
6th May 2014, 17:56
Dumahim didn´t resort to using their tongues only until they lost their minds/ability to use weapons (which is about 100 years before Raziel comes back).

So its not possible their tongues were evolved to where they could be used that way during the time in which these evolved skins come into play?

PencileyePirate
6th May 2014, 18:23
So its not possible their tongues where evolved to where they could be used that way during the time in which these evolved skins come into play?

Pretty sure it's not possible, they don't have the tongues yet. It wouldn't go well with current Reavers anyhow.