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View Full Version : The 7 things you liked and didn't liked about Kane & Lynch : Dead Men ...



GrievousOdyssey
21st Dec 2009, 19:47
Note : No , this ain't a test to see if you're actually a hater in disguise or not so don't worry , please state clearly what it is that you liked and what it is that you didn't liked (or thought it could have been done better) in IO's masterpiece ... :cool:
And don't mind the guard dogs hiding in that-not-so-discrete box with the words "mad dogs" painted red on it ... :D

vaultbreaker
21st Dec 2009, 20:06
I didnt really care for the cuba part. I'd rather of had those scenarios played out in an urban enviorment.
team commands were pretty useless.
not being able to choose weapons before level.
in between levels i'd at least like an image to go with the dialoge.
game was too damn short, i wanted MORE.
Fragile alliance is okay but a deathmatch is always welcome.
should have been able to play a lynch level at least once by yourself.

MaGNUs_^
21st Dec 2009, 21:10
7 things i liked:

1. the story
2. the characters
3. fragile alliance (even though i it's so damn hard to find a match)
4. the voice acting
5. allmost all the levels (especially the tokio club level)
6. the cover system (i liked that you didn't have to use a button and i never had one problem with it, maybe because i'm on pc?)
7. the revolver that lynch carries (on shot to the head and BOOOOOOOM HEADSHOT)

7 things i didn't like:

1. the long distance shooting (do i have to explain that?)
2. the weak looking explosions
3. the grenades ( mainly because they were very weak and there were no use of the smoke grenades or actually there was, i remember i used a whole bunch of smoke grenades in the prison level. i threw like 8 smoke grenades just where your van brakes the fence to make a cool brakeout scene)
4. the AI
5. the squad commands
6. no online co-op
7. on pc you had to use a 360 controller to play co-op

GrievousOdyssey
21st Dec 2009, 21:12
Man , i must be really tired , i forgot to put my own list ...

Things i liked as of today (in no particular order) ...

I ... The sound mixing , not many games have a volume bar specifically for "ambience" seperated from the simple "sound effect" volume bar in the first place ... by seperating the sound mixing of gun fires and the environement's natural sound , you know that each of these different sound have their own tracks which does enhances their overall quality , and with the right sound system you got yourself a near "academy award for best sound mixing" experience ...

II ... The storyline and the way it is delivered ... i don't plan on repeating everything i've said in the past five months so i'll just say it 'touched me deeply' ... (no , not in the funny way) ...

III ... The soundtrack ... i don't have to explain this one do i ? ...

IV ... The ability to 'trigger' Lynch's psychotic vision in co-op mode ... sure , schizophrenia don't work like that , but as a game above all , IO included this trick when playing as Lynch to trigger his special 'vision' ... i just find it to be a rather neat lil feature ...

V ... Finishing off the Behemoth a second before it crushes Jenny with a pistol while playing on morphine on my first playthrough ... ok , IO didn't told me to play it on hard on my first playthrought , neither was i forced not to use a sub-machine gun to kill the driver ... but my stupidity somewhat created one of my most satisfying moment in all the video games experience i had ... so yeah ... thought it was worth pointing it out ... i mean afterall it's not in every game where when you kill a boss with a gun weaker than the standard given weapon it gives you a more 'satisfying' feel ...

VI ... A near "you know it's your fault if you died" experience ... much like Far Cry 2 , you know that whenever you die and have to restart at the last checkpoint it's because of Your fault and not the game's bad programming ... (yeah i guess this is something most of you would disagree with me , but i never once died screaming WTF WAS THAT , unlike every other top rated games out there) ...

VII ... Shelly's death ... deal with it folks , he dies , his boat blew up just as he boards it , it's ironic , it's hilarious , it's satisfying ... There is a God ... and infidel hypocrites deserves to die more than mass murderers like Lynch and Kane ... THAT is Marvelous ...



Things i didn't liked as of today (in the order i write) ...

I ... No trophies patch on the Playstation 3 version , granted , it ain't IO's fault if the trophy system only came out in summer 2008 , but still , it's pretty embarrassing to see that i have collected all the trophies for Eat Lead (i still cringe at this fact sometimes) but not Dead Men , my favorite video game ...

II ... The Freedom Fighter chapter ... specifically the complete lack of checkpoint in the Market section ... and for some reason you get a checkpoint less than fourty seven seconds before you complete the chapter ... seriously ? ...

III ... Trial and Error stealth sections ... there was only two moments in the entire game where you are required to use stealth to kill a couple of particular guards , yet for some reason it's like if there's only One way for you to kill them and no room for any creativity ... doesn't sound so bad until you start to remember IO did made the brilliant Hitman : Blood Money ... yeah ...

IV ... Banal End Credits ... after the 'Tomorrow Never Dies' from Blood Money , i really expected something more than just a five minute loop of the Kane's family portrait theme for the end credits ... and yes i always watch end credits , skipping it ain't a option for me ... don't look so surprised ...

V ... Lynch's audio flashback in co-op mode ... either IO hired the same voice actors to play the role of different characters or i'm not mistaken at all , i find Lynch's flashback to be particularly 'disturbing' ... i won't say any more except that the 'split personnalities' theory that some people had two years ago seemed to be very plausible with these flashback , and that's kind of scary ... not necessarily a bad thing about this game , but it disturbed me so much it's worth pointing it out ...

VI ... No Nuclear Explosions ... totally unacceptable ... that or the fact that grenade's and rocket launcher's blast radius only work when they feel like it ...

VII ... The 'Slow' pacing of the shootouts ... this is weird because i only noticed how slow the action in Dead Men were ever since i saw the "Between tenderness and madness" trailer of Dog Days ... either this is the cheapest praise i'm ever going to make for Dog Days , or IO Interactive is sure as hell going to impress us even more than we could possibly expect ... and frankly , that's all good to me ...

Falkenwut
21st Dec 2009, 22:09
Liked:
1> Originality of Character and plot design
2> Gun fights
3> Tokyo night club
4> The7 (The "Older brother", Carlos and Mute)
5> Easter Eggs ^^
6> Close combat with Kane
7> Offline Co-op

Didn't like:
1> Grenades (too weak)
2> Idiot AI
3> Snipers of the game (they may be predictable, but still annoying)
4> 4 players minimum for Fragile Alliance (wished less)
5> Shortness of game
6> The7's "younger brother" (reminded me of a bully I know)
7> The moment where Kane, Lynch and Vault Breaker simply rappel down to get to the vault from when they gas the bank(the connection between those 2 moments was too short in my opinion)


(Note about long-distance fire - Even if you had a perfect aim, there's only about 50% chance that you'd hit precisely the point you're pointing at in reality (at about 35m or more with a pistol and less of a percentage if the target is farther away)... Lots of people complain about this in gaming.. But I consider it from a realistic perspective... and if this bothered you.. You will defenatly avoid the game "Damnation")

GrievousOdyssey
21st Dec 2009, 22:19
Are you mad ?!! How dare you mention a bad game in this forum ! You trying to corrupt our minds ? is this what you have been planning in your week longs of absense ?!! ... *throws mini nuke* ...

Anywya good to see you again ...

By the way , don't bother telling people how 'realistic' it is to have even the small sub machine guns producing such strong recoil ...
If ain't made by Infinity Wards , it ain't realistic ...

Fact ...

Kent-45
21st Dec 2009, 22:34
Liked:

1. The style, characters, and the way the story was presented using dialogue in-between loading screens to keep you engaged.

2. Fragile Alliance... hands down... this was by far my favorite aspect of the game. The idea of loading up your own merc and going in to a heist really kept me playing.

3. The reloading system of getting ammo from your buddies.

4. The close combat system in which Kane trips an enemy and then punches them in the throat.

5. The way pillars, walls, and objects crumbled as firefights erupted.

6. One of my favorite aspects of the game was actually the back-and-forth between Kane & Lynch as they did the mission. Sometimes it felt really genuine and believable... other times not so much.

7. The cutscenes.

Didn't Like

1. A lot of the disconnected dialogue, especially at the beginning, that doesn't really explain what's going on. I didn't like the overall confusing nature of the story itself, and how much of it is left up to interpretation

2. The bullet trails, and the unsatisfying bullet effects that the guns had. The M4 was the only gun that felt satisfying to shoot. A lot of the guns were essentially useless... the Magnum, and the grenade launcher for example.

3. The overly accurate enemies compared to your mercs. My team would often "miss on purpose"

4. The lack of a health bar or any indication of the health of you or your mercs.

5. The unpolished and borderline unfinished nature of Fragile Alliance. The lack of any sort of patch or DLC content for PC users.

6. The excessive swearing that really hindered the dialogue in places because it felt like they had a program that just randomly inserted profanity into every sentence of spoken dialogue... randomly.

7. The overall unpolished nature of the game itself. The fact that there was so much potential and it seems wasted.

ohitspatty
21st Dec 2009, 22:37
Goods:
1. Characters - Especially: Lynch, Kane, Mute, Older Brother, and Jenny
2. Story - Action packed criminal drama about two old ****-ups that **** up even more.
3. Settings & Level Design - Great combination of urban and jungle settings.
4. Fragile Alliance - Amazing concept for a multiplayer. I am so sick of Deathmatch or Capture flag. This was something fresh.
5. Voice acting - Great performance.
6. Soundtrack - I really think it fitted great and I love the theme song.
7. The Tokyo shoot-out on streets level - Best level in a video game...ever!

Bads:
1. Graphics - Characters looked fine but environment was pretty weak for new gen console.
2. Small selection of weapons - I want more for both storyline and online play.
3. No Fragile Alliance customization - Too many Reds and Parkers are running around.
4. Weak explosions - Grenades, rocket launchers, yeah rather bland.
5. The length of the storyline - Too short for something that awesome.
6. No ability to play as Lynch in single player! - I liked Lynch better.
7. Very little maps in FA made - It needs at least 10 maps at launch. And even better if they were nothing like the levels we played in storyline. Also make the NPCs spawn in different places each time.

Bawabus
21st Dec 2009, 23:41
Liked:
Dialogue (sans most of the f-words). It felt like a lazy attempt at being gritty at times. There was good, realistic dialogue between murderers sprinkled with all sorts of out of place f-bombs. Swearing a lot is certainly something that certain people do a lot, but I felt like the way it was done in Dead Men was less than ideal.

Characters. It's rare that you find a game dealing with men who might conceivably kill thirty people and not be driven to maddening guilt by it. They're unsympathetic, evil men, but they were human enough to be interesting. It was cool.

Tokyo Club (in concept). It was cool being in a level that wasn't just all about shooting everything, not in the early part of it anyway. It's cool and something that breaks up the action nicely without feeling boring.

Environmental damage: I like seeing things get torn apart, and it was done smartly so that most things that were going to conceivably used as cover were destructible. Keep that up!

Splitting up partners: where the two players are split up in a way that's meaningful to the situation. One person looking over the hostages while the other breaks open a safe is really, really cool; making people split up to get levers on either side of a level is not interesting nor is it particularly fun.

Crawling enemies: little things like this, made shooting people feel more realistic. People just didn't go limp as soon as they were hit. Sometimes they were still alive; it made the aftermath of a gunfight feel more like a gunfight, instead of a hazardous shooting gallery.

Story: the way it was relayed through character dialogue, the internal dialogue during near the death moments, and other ways. I would've liked the dialogue between levels to be a bit more integrated into the game, but it was a nice way of making loading screens seem shorter.

Did Not Like:

Cuba: it was silly.

AI: it was silly.

Long-range shooting: also silly; rifles are inaccurate mostly because of the minute movements of the shooter, not because of the gun itself. If I have my aimer on him, he should die.

AI!!!!!: it really kills any tension during the gunfights when dudes have no regard for their own, or their friend's lives.

Length: it was hella-short.

Movement: I was able to forgive the Hitman games for their stiff movements and animation, because I didn't need to be absolutely spot on in my movements ... but Kane and Lynch is a shooter, and that stuff is more important. I felt very stiff, almost not entirely in control of my character, and the animations didn't make anything feel very urgent.

A. mother******* I.: a man standing out in the open aiming off in a direction no one is in, stationary enemies who make no attempt to flank, groups that act as individuals, enemies who literally wait, staring at you, to get shot.

These things killed a lot of the experience for me.

I am kane
22nd Dec 2009, 03:24
likes.
1. kane and lynch are great disturbed chracters
2.voice acting top notch.
3. diffrent locations.
4.fragile alliance
5.variety of weapons
6.scenarios.
7. the 7 really creepy dudes.

dislikes or changes.
1.the dialouge is good bu the f word is over used A LOT.
2. GRAPHICS may i say more.
3. sound effects they guns sound very weak
4. fragile alliance weapons system how come wen ur a cop u cant get a p90 or m4?
5. a more balnced traitor system there needs to be more harsh consqences for betraying to early.
6. more maps and scenarios.
7.length instead of making an unfair spike in diffculty make longer more gradual campaign.

YoungZer0
25th Dec 2009, 16:14
The good:

1. Jens-Peter Kurup: "They always fail."

The Story. It was unique and refreshing. It really felt like playing a Michael Mann Movie with ****ed up characters. I love Collateral and Heat so this was the right game for me. Besides I am also a Fan of all previous IO Interactive games.

2.Vaultbreaker: "What the **** is he saying?"
Kane: "Lynch, shut the **** up!".

The characters. The characters of Kane & Lynch are the heart and soul of the game. They are unique, just as the story itself. A man who's trying to fix his broken past and fails miserably. Disrespected and hated even by those he's trying to rescue. And a man who is everything but under control.

3. "Dun-Dun-Din-Din-Dun-Dun-Din. *Trailer Theme*"

The Music. Jesper Kyd at it's best. The whole soundtrack pumped me full of adrenaline when the action started and gave me rest and calmness when it was all quite and nice. It also gave the game so much more coolness. The only thing that bothers me is that we never heard the trailer theme in the game.

4. 7-Merc: "Why the **** should i share?"

Fragile Alliance. The most intense multiplayer experience i ever had. You never really trusted the guy next to you. I remember this one round where only one guy and me survived. We stood there, waiting for the halo with 1 million each. I just couldn't stand it and started shooting him, i really thought he was going to kill me. I killed him, took the loot, flied away. He send me a message telling me that i was an *******. I really thought he was going to kill me.

5. Kane: "YOU SHOULD HAVE LET ME TALK TO THEM!"

The voice-acting in the game is superb. Both Brian Bloom and Jarion Monroe did an excellent job as Kane & Lynch. The rest of the sound is also great, i'm talking about the guns.

6. Lynch: "You're right, i already hate this place."

The Locations. Of course the game had to have fantastic locations, it's an Io Interactive game.
The Club, The Retomoto-Tower, The Tokyo Streets. The Cuba levels weren't bad, you just expected something more urban.

7. Kane's Wife: "What's that you're playing with? Put it down! No, NO! *Shot fired* NOOO!"

The Flashbacks. When i first heard about the idea of using Flashbacks I thought to myself: That's not going to work out. But after seeing it in action i was completely convinced. This again is only possible by the great sound mix and superb voice-acting. Instead of images and sound (Like in The Punisher Videogame) they only used the sound and left everything else to your imagination. If you have a strong imagination most of the sounds will leave you disturbed. This feature allows you to figure out Kane's and Lynch's past events all by yourself.



The bad:

1. Older Brother: "You betrayed us Kane, you left us behind and you ran with it all!"

No patches, no DLC and a broken Fragile Alliance for the PC Version.

2. Kane: "Not as long as you do exactly as i say."

Grenades are useless and you can't hit **** with these weapons. I know in real life weapons aren't 100% accurate, but this goes too far.

3. Lynch: "I was aiming for her legs."

The game was way too short.

4. Lynch: "You didn't even ******* know her."

Both Endings were unsatisfying and felt rushed.

5. Kane: "You Idiot!

The AI. I don't need to say more, do I?

6. No Online Co-op.

7. The need for a 360-Controller to play Co-op.

GrievousOdyssey
25th Dec 2009, 18:03
Stop quoting Jens-Peter Kurup , it's making me real jalous ...

Anywya , you felt the endings were rushed and unsatisfying , why ? ...

YoungZer0
25th Dec 2009, 19:16
Stop quoting Jens-Peter Kurup , it's making me real jalous ...

Anywya , you felt the endings were rushed and unsatisfying , why ? ...

"Jenny, i wrote you a letter." *camera zooms out* The End.

"You ******* traitor!" The End.

It needed a little bit more.

btw. the quote of JPK is from the Making of.

GrievousOdyssey
25th Dec 2009, 20:47
Well the focus was on Kane's 'relationship' with Jenny , and i didn't expected a dramatic monolog either , so ...
I mean how would you have ended the story ? ...

And Yes i remember it was in the developer's diary , but that's not a reason for you to quote him anywya ... :tongue2:

Bevacur
25th Dec 2009, 21:13
What i liked.

1. The story.
2. The Characters.
3. The music expecially the "Retomoto Death Squad", that got me pumping!
4. Tokyo Nightclub.
5. Sound effects.
6. Levels were big.
7. Kane and Lynch's suits.

What i didnt like.

1. This game does not deserve a mature rating for "strong blooby violence".
There was hardly any blood and if there was blood it did not look like blood. CoD World at War is a 15 in the UK and had more violence than Kane and Lynch.

2. The explosions looked naff.
3. Hardly any guns.
4. The Cuba levels.
5. The monster truck, i hated it because it was hard to kill but i would prefer shocking boss's like this, who would of expected to fight a bulldozer or excavator or what ever it is.
6. The chase scene in the van.
7. The swearing, in some parts it was unneccessary. I would not be surprised if Kane said "***** my shoes are untied" "***** i got the wrong shoes!" "B*stard i broke a nail!" "C*nt i wanted ketchup!!"

GrievousOdyssey
25th Dec 2009, 21:26
Agreed on World at War , that game was too violent for fifteen year old Bobby ...
Nevertheless i feel Dead Men deserved a Adult Only rating ...
It is that Marvelous of a game ...

Oh and the swearings you just wrote were excellent ! ...
Hope they put it in the game ...

dark_angel_7
26th Dec 2009, 12:49
Some excellent points mentioned :thumbsup: Heres my list:

Liked:

- Intriguing Story
- Characters and their emotions
- Variety in areas and their atmosphere and surroundings
- The bad-ass feel
- Swearing (lol)
- Size of the levels
- IOI's willingness to be unique, break the mould, try new things.

Disliked:

- Too much swearing at times
- Rushed feeling (probably due to the forced Xmas 2007 release)
- Average lighting and character models (Dog Days seems to have improved the lighting aspect so far)
- Music was not epic enough, not bad-ass enough
- Poor A.I.
- Lack of decent effects and immersion (realistic fires, explosions, gun noises, cars crashing, physics, animations, etc.)
- No support after release (Patches and a Map creator for PC users are a must in this day and age IOI!!)

GrievousOdyssey
26th Dec 2009, 15:38
By the way , anyone here knows what exactly is the sound that echoes whenever you go to the pause screen or whenever you select a sub menu in the option screen ? ...

I like it a lot yet i don't even know what it is ... embarrassing ...

Unpaid Intern
26th Dec 2009, 22:36
Liked

1 - professional criminal theme - no light sabers, elves or robots, just a group of scoundrels on a rampage through (mostly) urban locations
2 - 'Hard Reality' style: a lot of developers claim realism but they don't deliver it raw like this
3 - ALL the characters (personalities and designs) were cool as hell - no flat caricatures
4 - Well-chosen locations (incl. all-time classic highrise level)
5 - squad commands: even if they weren't always useful, it was fun to think of mini plans on the fly and order guys around to execute them. Could very well just be Freedom Fighters nostalgia at play here :)
6 - Many epic moments (seeing city from atop skyrise, club scene, tokyo street war, exchange, prison break-in, etc...)
7 - Liked the grim moments and downer ending.

Disliked

1 - Too much swearing, bickering and just plain talking: it was quickly established that there was friction between the characters. There was no need to have Lynch whine at every opportunity and have Kane chew him down. It got old and lost its effect quickly. Would have been nice if Lynch was giving Kane the silent treatment in one level or actually getting along with him and then falling out again. You know: like real people do.
2 - Weak SFX: IO needs to put together a taskforce to address this because they are really lagging behind in this dept.
3 - Poor animation and character mesh deformation. It doesn't matter how great the models or individual animation bits look when the characters are sliding around, animations are blending poorly and the meshes are getting warped in extreme poses. Again: this needs a concerted effort.
4 - Push Dagger: hated it. We are told that Kane is a no-nonsense ex-military type yet he carries around this dorky klingon-style trinket? I didn't buy it at all...
5 - level music was too repetitive
6 - enemies seemed soulless and artificial in their speaks and behaviors
7 - unique gameplay like stealth section and monster truck: too 'forced', not intuitive, not fun...

GrievousOdyssey
27th Dec 2009, 00:29
Woot ! This is your fourty seventh post , bravo ! ...

Unpaid Intern
28th Dec 2009, 23:28
Oh my ..heeeheee :)