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View Full Version : MISC. Make damage worth more points than kills for TDM



samusco
3rd Mar 2014, 15:34
Mechwarrior follows this rule, granted they are very different games, and mechs can't heal like vamps and humans can, still, I think damage should be rewarded with more points, more so if you damage leads to an assist. I think you should just shift the balance a tad to reward high damage assists more.

Boreaquis
3rd Mar 2014, 16:32
Agreed, the less emphasis on kills (and killstealing), the better. This is a team-centric game after all.

k8Faust
3rd Mar 2014, 17:13
Indeed, would definitely help shift focus to something more team-oriented.

Diexna
3rd Mar 2014, 18:28
If Person A deals 1000 damage to Person C, but Person B gets the kill by dealing 50 damage, A should have more points by far.

But as long as humans/vampires are alive, they can heal, right? Should healed damage subtract points from the player who inflicted it?

If so, how about this: Score is determined based on amount of damage dealt to human/vampire up until their death. Any major heals like executing/supply stations will subtract a % of the score they are worth upon dying.

Omhxyz
3rd Mar 2014, 21:03
A already gets more points if he has done 1K dmg to a target; 98 xp/points for assist, 20 for every 1k damage. I think its fine the way its, score doesnt matter at all if your team getting the kills and who cares about "killsteal" in a teamplay game anyway. If you are worried about gold reward, difference is little to nothing if you did good.

Razaiim
3rd Mar 2014, 21:13
Samusco, Mechwarrior has many many many things different from this game. No respawn and the fact and you have to spend game money to repair/reload your mech unless you use the rotated chassis first and foremost mean that score should be calculated differently than Nosgoth.
My only gripe is players topping the board with minimal damage, but lucky timing lets them get double or triple kills which are worth much more.

cmstache
3rd Mar 2014, 23:23
Maybe a 1.25XP multiplier on the Assist XP would be better? It'd encourage helping each other instead of "stealing" kills.

Psyonix_Corey
3rd Mar 2014, 23:35
That by itself doesn't work, because then you actually get more XP letting someone else kill the enemy and taking the 99% assist.

Sdoots
3rd Mar 2014, 23:52
I'd be okay with this change. I was actually in a game with Razaiim maybe twenty minutes ago, and I felt like I was pouncing on his victims right before he could clench the kill the entire Vampire round. Was a coincidence every time, but still. That moment where you realize you just jacked a guys kill after he had spent the effort beating him up never feels great.

cmstache
3rd Mar 2014, 23:59
That by itself doesn't work, because then you actually get more XP letting someone else kill the enemy and taking the 99% assist.


Personally, that'd be OK with me. Either you're staying together, as you're supposed to, in which case it's a reward or you take time to actually coordinate that mid fight, which slow your team down and might get you killed.

Sdoots
4th Mar 2014, 00:04
Personally, that'd be OK with me. Either you're staying together, as you're supposed to, in which case it's a reward or you take time to actually coordinate that mid fight, which slow your team down and might get you killed.

Yup, this is a good point. Even though it's TDM, this seems like a situation where your assists matter just as much as kills, which is an often overlooked statistic in competitive games today. I'd rather know which of the four of my teammates filled that Tyrant with more arrows than the others, than know who happened to fire the last one.

Strike5150
4th Mar 2014, 08:32
I've had games where I did 20k damage and had 3 kills and 9 deaths. Clearly I did a ton of work for my team but the guy who got all the kills, usually a reaver ends up with tons of points.

Oroibahazopi
4th Mar 2014, 09:25
As a Tyrant I can +1 this. The game already works out the proportion of damage you do when getting an assist, just remove the bonus points for getting the kill.

shinros
4th Mar 2014, 13:51
As a Tyrant I can +1 this. The game already works out the proportion of damage you do when getting an assist, just remove the bonus points for getting the kill.

Yup as someone who also plays both Tyrant and Alchemist I think this should be looked at.

Syst3mzero
4th Mar 2014, 16:03
+100
I also agree a last hit kill is overly rewarded. I would much rather see a FAIR damage counter.... not the one we have now that is super inaccurate.

damage counts when it gets healed off which pads the stats of players who do massive damage and don't make sure the job gets finished (people like Rambo).

seriously I really think the kill should be awarded to either the person who does the most damage against an enemy or experience given as a percentage to all involved

what I would also like to see is Alchemists get some flippin credit. if you play a healing alch you get absolutely no credit for healing your team and your stats suffer while you boost the rest of the teams stats. yeah I could do more damage with flamethrower but my team mates wouldn't do as much damage when they are dead.

Boreaquis
4th Mar 2014, 16:47
what I would also like to see is Alchemists get some flippin credit. if you play a healing alch you get absolutely no credit for healing your team and your stats suffer while you boost the rest of the teams stats. yeah I could do more damage with flamethrower but my team mates wouldn't do as much damage when they are dead.

Agreed, I posted some of my thoughts on this in another thread (http://forums.eu.square-enix.com/showthread.php?t=10779). Same thing goes for other support abilities like the Reaver blinding cloud. You only get a fairly lousy 1 xp for a blinded human getting killed.

GenFeelGood
5th Mar 2014, 01:48
I use stats to determine my teammates role in the group.

Low Assist+Low Damage Dealt+Low Death+High Kill=Opportunist

They sit close but on the side lines, rarely coming to your aid and leaving you and the team to get slaughtered, jumping in afterwards and landing the easy kills along with the experience at the expense of their own team. (I never trust those players to have my back)

These types of players will always exist in team death match. Perhaps if there was a smaller kill bonus rewarded not to the one that killed them but the one that dealt the most damage to them it would give a better incentive to land as much damage as possible as opposed to holding back to search out the quick kill. Its not like players would lose interest in wanting kill each other but maybe it would inspire more cooperation among their teammates.

Syst3mzero
5th Mar 2014, 02:41
so looks like we are all agreed, drastic decrease in kill bonus or no kill bonus and a percentage of damage done bonus instead?
we want a more teamwork based system that doesn't incentivise last hits?

k8Faust
5th Mar 2014, 03:24
That by itself doesn't work, because then you actually get more XP letting someone else kill the enemy and taking the 99% assist.

As it should be, considering that it's more advantageous to help a teammate who is being hounded than to chase down a kill. Scoring should reflect this and award this behavior. It simply isn't right that someone can swoop in after a 3v4 and clean up the injured survivors for easy points.

Case in point, as a Sentinel, I enjoy dropping foes near my allies and letting them finish the job. It allows my team to quickly pick off Humans one by one. Why should I be penalized for cooperating with my team?


so looks like we are all agreed, drastic decrease in kill bonus or no kill bonus and a percentage of damage done bonus instead?
we want a more teamwork based system that doesn't incentivise last hits?

I'm more in favor of a small kill bonus (+10 on top of damage assist bonus). The kill should still count for something.

Syst3mzero
5th Mar 2014, 11:57
Case in point, as a Sentinel, I enjoy dropping foes near my allies and letting them finish the job. It allows my team to quickly pick off Humans one by one. Why should I be penalized for cooperating with my team?


That! exactly that!!!!!! great teamwork!

I have a threshold I play using, if I have done over 1000 scoreboard damage per kill I'm happy I normally hit about 1500 damage per kill but the other day for unknown reason I got a mere 6700 damage and 15 kills... I was mortified. I felt bad that I had got so many kill bonuses when I didn't deserve them and felt bad that others with higher damage hadn't received them. I would have felt much better about it if I had received only the percentage of kill bonus for which I had done the damage.

Sdoots
6th Mar 2014, 21:49
I use stats to determine my teammates role in the group.

Low Assist+Low Damage Dealt+Low Death+High Kill=Opportunist

They sit close but on the side lines, rarely coming to your aid and leaving you and the team to get slaughtered, jumping in afterwards and landing the easy kills along with the experience at the expense of their own team. (I never trust those players to have my back)

These types of players will always exist in team death match. Perhaps if there was a smaller kill bonus rewarded not to the one that killed them but the one that dealt the most damage to them it would give a better incentive to land as much damage as possible as opposed to holding back to search out the quick kill. Its not like players would lose interest in wanting kill each other but maybe it would inspire more cooperation among their teammates.

See, I hate that this is the perception, because sometimes a match just works out like that, and it's not the intent. I'm never out to "outplay" my teammates, but I always get super self-conscious when I notice I'm getting a lot of kills and few assists. It's a crummy feeling.

cmstache
6th Mar 2014, 22:02
'd just say a person = 100 XP, and it's divided over the players who dealt the damage, if I did 525 damage I would get 50 XP when they die, and an assist on the board. It'd show who got a kill then, but doesn't reward anything more than the help got (Only XP = to the % of damage done). Give a 35XP bonus to a player if a human dies in their smoke bomb.

Sdoots
7th Mar 2014, 00:19
'd just say a person = 100 XP, and it's divided over the players who dealt the damage, if I did 525 damage I would get 50 XP when they die, and an assist on the board. It'd show who got a kill then, but doesn't reward anything more than the help got (Only XP = to the % of damage done). Give a 35XP bonus to a player if a human dies in their smoke bomb.

I like this idea a lot.

Khalith
7th Mar 2014, 03:32
Definitely agree, having highest damage and 16 assists but only 1-2 kills will put you at the bottom cause of the way it's scored.

GenFeelGood
7th Mar 2014, 16:51
See, I hate that this is the perception, because sometimes a match just works out like that, and it's not the intent. I'm never out to "outplay" my teammates, but I always get super self-conscious when I notice I'm getting a lot of kills and few assists. It's a crummy feeling.

You shouldn't feel crummy. We all know that having high kills and low assists happens in this game. That, alone, does not make you what I would consider an opportunist.

Example: You are a human and you are engaged with a vamp and you know its got you, but you see that a teammate sees you from the back. Instead of immediately laying down support fire to save you they wait till it kills you so they can finish it off easy, since you did so much of the damage already, just so they can be sure to get the 100xp instead of whatever lesser amount they might get if it was only an assist because they chose to help save you.

Can't tell you how many times I've been torn up, shot up, and just flat out beaten while seeing a teammate just standing in the back staring, almost deer eyed. And after finally killing over there is this teammate taking down whoever killed me in seconds, because I took him down to inches from death, and I have to wonder why they waited.

Have you ever had moments like that?

RainaAudron
7th Mar 2014, 17:08
Can't tell you how many times I've been torn up, shot up, and just flat out beaten while seeing a teammate just standing in the back staring, almost deer eyed. And after finally killing over there is this teammate taking down whoever killed me in seconds, because I took him down to inches from death, and I have to wonder why they waited.

Yeah, that´s just terrible... helping out your teammate should be a priority... I had a few instances where the Reavers would just wait and while I was going in as Sent and getting killed, they came in afterwards and finished off the guys I was trying to get with 0 deaths...

Sometimes it´s not intended but if it happens repeatedly, then you must wonder... I especially don´t like when I abduct somebody and then turn around to do the Dive Bomb to finish the guy off and some Reaver pounces the victim even though I´m already locked into Dive Bomb animation so I can´t stop it and it´s a waste of skill and have to wait on recharge. I don´t mind if there are more humans on the ground so I can still do some damage but if there´s just one, then yeah...

GenFeelGood
7th Mar 2014, 17:21
I especially don´t like when I abduct somebody and then turn around to do the Dive Bomb to finish the guy off and some Reaver pounces the victim even though I´m already locked into Dive Bomb animation so I can´t stop it and it´s a waste of skill and have to wait on recharge.

I'll admit I'm guilty of being that reaver. I try not to be but I just don't know if its gonna be followed by the dive bomb till I'm already half way across in the pounce and I can't stop it either. If I ever did it to you, and odds are I have, I am sorry I just didn't want them to get away.

RainaAudron
7th Mar 2014, 17:24
Ah, hehe, that´s alright, sometimes you don´t see the dive bomb coming until it´s too late, as I can´t see you pouncing sometimes too, I don´t mind that :)