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View Full Version : ABILITIES Items that need buffed/nerfed



Thestreetuluv
2nd Mar 2014, 21:19
These items in my opinion need a buff/nerf. I will give a reason why and maybe a possible solution.

Buffed items

Warbow: I honestly think that the reduced fall damage for vampires has almost killed this bow. In most cases you can no longer do enough damage to even be considered a threat. If anything you are now just a pest. I think since fall damage has been reduced that really reduces overall damage with warbow so maybe a possible reduction in draw time or even increasing fall damage for vampires.

Multibow: This item needs a serious buff because it does not fit anywhere in a hunter's arsenal. For long range its honestly better to just try and shoot with regular crossbows. If used up close you will do significantly reduced damage due to the long pause in between tri-shots. Maybe reducing the time between shots, increasing overall attack speed, or decreasing time between trishots.

Camouflage: It is way too easy to track camouflaged targets. Possible buff can be to decrease actual visibilty of the camouflaged target or to maybe be more invisible in darker areas in more visible in lit areas.

Ground slam: Does significantly less damage than shockwave but at a greater chance of receiving damage. Possible buffs could be increased damage or having damage wave out doing greater damage towards the center(400-500) and less near the outside of aoe(150-200)

Grenade: Damage is not consistent in my opinion. The possible damage fall off can be overwhelming. Possible buff include decreasing falloff damage.

Healing Mist: This spell is very nice right now, but it can be negated very easily. I like where this is at but I would like to see it in a more instant manner. Possible buff could be shortening duration and increasing healing.

Echolocation: Does not disorient foes. Possible buff would be to actually disorient foes.

Nerfed items

Stormbow: Possibly the best bow due to almost no negative properties. Damage is great, delayed damage( which can confuse vampires or force late reactions), good size aoe(allowing for damage around corners), good attack speed, and clip size. Possible nerfs could be allowing explosive damage to be done only on charged shots, reducing damage, reducing aoe size, reducing attack speed, or increasing draw time.

All crossbows(except multibow): Crossbows have become possibly the best weapon in a human's aresenal. They are great at close and medium range and decent at long range. They have good damage and can be sprayed. Possible nerfs include decreased clip size, increased spread, greater falloff damage at range, or just decreased damage(not best idea).

Turret: Does a significant amount of damage and has a long duration and almost no notification of damage recieved. Amazing at area denial(such as covering dead bodies) and also good at martyrdom(throwing it down before you die to kill a vampire). Possible nerfs could be decreased duration or greater notification of recieving damage(such as sound ticks).

Shadow Bomb: Skill is at a great place right now but duration of debuff after leaving aoe is long. Possible nerf could be reducing time of debuff after leaving aoe area.

Abduct/Kidnap: I miss the alpha mechanic. But this one is still nice the only problem is time allowed to actually abduct/kidnap a player is to long. Possible nerfs are decreasing amount of time give to use skill or bringing back old mechanic.

Razaiim
2nd Mar 2014, 22:16
These items in my opinion need a buff/nerf. I will give a reason why and maybe a possible solution.

Buffed items

Warbow: I honestly think that the reduced fall damage for vampires has almost killed this bow. In most cases you can no longer do enough damage to even be considered a threat. If anything you are now just a pest. I think since fall damage has been reduced that really reduces overall damage with warbow so maybe a possible reduction in draw time or even increasing fall damage for vampires.

The warbow's primary role has never been about damage. It's place has always been about stalling vampires and leaving them vulnerable to your team. With proper timing, you can nail a jumping tyrant so that he falls flat on his face, in front of your waiting team mates to fry him. You can plop careless sentinels out of the air, stopping a fatal dive bomb, and keeping them from abducting and seperating the team. An uncharged warbow shot is enough to break the kidnap if it's already charged. Same for reavers with pounce. Warbow also has the highest unaimed damage of all bows. It's fine,

Multibow: This item needs a serious buff because it does not fit anywhere in a hunter's arsenal. For long range its honestly better to just try and shoot with regular crossbows. If used up close you will do significantly reduced damage due to the long pause in between tri-shots. Maybe reducing the time between shots, increasing overall attack speed, or decreasing time between trishots.

The Multibow's spread got raised from 100 to 170. compared to other crossbow's 180. Going for a middle ground between the two would be acceptable.

Camouflage: It is way too easy to track camouflaged targets. Possible buff can be to decrease actual visibilty of the camouflaged target or to maybe be more invisible in darker areas in more visible in lit areas.

Many players I feel are using camouflage inappropriately. They use it when they are being attacked to try and get away, which doesn't work as when a vampire is that close it is all to easy to see you. Players also take the most direct and obvious route while using camo. Scouts should try to break line of sight or find someway to not be the center of a vampire's attention and then use camo to get away. The main exception is when being captured by a sentinel. Using camo once you are dropped helps you escape as often sentinels are too far away to pick you out easily. The lighting issue on Valeholm also makes Camo much more noticeable than on other maps. Camo is fine.

Ground slam: Does significantly less damage than shockwave but at a greater chance of receiving damage. Possible buffs could be increased damage or having damage wave out doing greater damage towards the center(400-500) and less near the outside of aoe(150-200)

Grenade: Damage is not consistent in my opinion. The possible damage fall off can be overwhelming. Possible buff include decreasing falloff damage.

Healing Mist: This spell is very nice right now, but it can be negated very easily. I like where this is at but I would like to see it in a more instant manner. Possible buff could be shortening duration and increasing healing.

Perhaps reduce time between healing ticks and reduced duration. Heals the same amount faster.

Echolocation: Does not disorient foes. Possible buff would be to actually disorient foes.

Yes. It's usefulness has been indirectly buffed by the nerfs to take-off, and the fact that humans are so dark on many maps, but it's still not worth the tradeoff you get from Divebomb or take-off with out a properly communicating team,

Nerfed items

Stormbow: Possibly the best bow due to almost no negative properties. Damage is great, delayed damage( which can confuse vampires or force late reactions), good size aoe(allowing for damage around corners), good attack speed, and clip size. Possible nerfs could be allowing explosive damage to be done only on charged shots, reducing damage, reducing aoe size, reducing attack speed, or increasing draw time.

Personally I feel that more of the explosive damage should be moved to the actual arrow, and then the explosive damage on the target made immune to fall off, while AoE rapidly falls off in a radius.

All crossbows(except multibow): Crossbows have become possibly the best weapon in a human's aresenal. They are great at close and medium range and decent at long range. They have good damage and can be sprayed. Possible nerfs include decreased clip size, increased spread, greater falloff damage at range, or just decreased damage(not best idea).

Crossbows were nerfed from alpha in terms of long range accuracy, except Seige bow, which recieved buffs due to being overly punished for higher damage. Otherwise they're fine.

Turret: Does a significant amount of damage and has a long duration and almost no notification of damage recieved. Amazing at area denial(such as covering dead bodies) and also good at martyrdom(throwing it down before you die to kill a vampire). Possible nerfs could be decreased duration or greater notification of recieving damage(such as sound ticks).

Many humans AoE in this manner. The difference is turret does higher damage in a much smaller radius. It's hugely avoidable if you are careful, and therefore fine.

Shadow Bomb: Skill is at a great place right now but duration of debuff after leaving aoe is long. Possible nerf could be reducing time of debuff after leaving aoe area.

Shadow bomb is fine. I personally feel that the smoke cloud can be done with red hues in it to helps obscure the red outline when teammates are under attack, but that's just me.

Abduct/Kidnap: I miss the alpha mechanic. But this one is still nice the only problem is time allowed to actually abduct/kidnap a player is to long. Possible nerfs are decreasing amount of time give to use skill or bringing back old mechanic.

Abduct/Kidnap is being worked on. I enjoy the mobility offered. I can charge while out of sight, and then kidnap around corners if the target is highlighted. The duration is a bit long, but shortening it, coupled with the leveling motion of charging can cause some issues. Personally I feel that an option worth trying is having the speed at which the sentinel travels (atleast vertically) after snatching from coasting along the ground should be more heavily punished. This way, less skilled players can use the coast to get a kidnap, but they can't pull up faster and deal less damage, while players that can pull off high speed diving kidnaps (much harder) are rewarded by dealing the full damage.


All responses in the quote. I only commented on stuff I feel confident on.

Thestreetuluv
2nd Mar 2014, 22:23
Was gonna try to debate the first reply to my comment.....but pretty much all of what your saying is making great sense lol.

Only thing i forgot to put on here was bola duration
I was hoping for maybe an interactive type thing where duration could be reduced by spamming evade button .....not by a huge amount but maybe .5 -1 sec reduction

and about the warbow....I guess im just missing the alpha fall damage and being able to actually deal damage with the warbow...hopefully when teams are working correctly most the time ill be able to use it more often to act as a more support scout

thx for reply btw

Razaiim
2nd Mar 2014, 22:30
My only gripes with bola/poison bola it that they are the only skills the hunter has available in that slot, and the ability to evade is removed. Perhaps your idea could work for standard bola since it has a longer duration, and the vampires make a visible attempt to break it when you perform an action. Something like so x presses in y seconds causes the bola to break at the end of y time.

Razaiim
2nd Mar 2014, 22:45
I'm actually really liking this reddish coloured shadow bomb now that I think about. Imagine being one of these vampire hunters, and one of these smoke bombs lands at your feet. Not only are you surrounded by vicious predators you can no longer see. But there's these red fumes mixed in, and the smell and taste of the smoke indicates that evaporated blood is mixed into this concoction, and it's starting to stick and cling to you and its in your eyes and now there's a vampire in your face and now your food.

Eric please. Do, do the thing. :worship:

Hugbringer
3rd Mar 2014, 01:47
I am going to have to agree with Razaiim's assessments of those various powers and their respective concerns. I'm also definitely in agreement about the Stormbow and the explosive damage being pushed more towards the arrow and less toward the explosion, seems to reward spam fire and less so accuracy.

Smoke should definitely stay the way it is, as right now it is definitely a nuisance and that means it is right were it is supposed to be. You can still aim, but you've very little definition beyond a few feet. I would think it would great if there were like 'Ghostly' outlines of vamps in the smoke, almost like false images to further distract people that might be in it to panic fire at nothing. Name tags are still sort visible through them and that's usually good enough to shoot at though.

I do dislike how so many tactics revolve around 'Martyrdom' as Razaiim mentioned above, but I suppose that is unavoidable.

Razaiim
3rd Mar 2014, 03:08
Yea the stormbow needs a looking at, it's quickly becoming what the warbow was in alpha. Everywhere, and ridiuclous. Meanwhile the warbow is in a nice place.

Sdoots
4th Mar 2014, 00:00
I think it's kind of nuts that a Sentinel can have his stomach rub against the ground, flying at me like he's from F-Zero or something, and that doesn't stop his Abduct/Kidnap. I've had it happen several times now where a Sentinel swoops down, hugs the floor, and grabs me like that. I don't know if that is supposed to work or if it is a bug, but either way, it really sucks to dodge a dive and then get grabbed anyways because they momentarily transformed into the Blue Falcon.

Psyonix_Corey
4th Mar 2014, 00:29
I think it's kind of nuts that a Sentinel can have his stomach rub against the ground, flying at me like he's from F-Zero or something, and that doesn't stop his Abduct/Kidnap. I've had it happen several times now where a Sentinel swoops down, hugs the floor, and grabs me like that. I don't know if that is supposed to work or if it is a bug, but either way, it really sucks to dodge a dive and then get grabbed anyways because they momentarily transformed into the Blue Falcon.

17

like dis?

Sdoots
4th Mar 2014, 00:35
17

like dis?

Nah, that's Captain Falcon. GOSH COREY, GET YOUR F-ZERO FICTION STRAIGHTENED OUT. CAPTAIN FALCON DRIVES THE BLUE FALCON, EVERYONE KNOWS THAT.

The fact that I can name more than a few drivers and their vehicles from F-Zero kind of concerns me, now that I think about it.

Razaiim
4th Mar 2014, 00:43
Yeah sdoots, there's a couple ideas bouncing around about abduct. I'm kind of attached to the idea that I suggested above personally.

Sdoots
4th Mar 2014, 03:25
Yeah sdoots, there's a couple ideas bouncing around about abduct. I'm kind of attached to the idea that I suggested above personally.

I'd have to be a more avid Sentinel player to really qualify for this discussion, I think, but as someone who constantly gets grabbed by hovercraft Sentinels, I'd be completely in favor of having a drop in speed occur once they reach ground level. I was personally thinking it might make sense to just have them come to a stop, but that's most likely me being butthurt about how many times I've gotten anklegrabbed by one of the hovercrafts today, and less me being rational.

Psyonix_Corey
4th Mar 2014, 04:03
Some of these changes might be in a future update in whatever form I deemed appropriate.

It won't be in the next patch because that one went into QA last week.

Razaiim
4th Mar 2014, 04:07
Overly assertive Corey over here ;)

Thestreetuluv
4th Mar 2014, 08:10
*cough* *cough* ETA next patch??

Strike5150
4th Mar 2014, 08:24
Opening can of worms on storm bow / check.

I am not sure the stormbow needs a nerf.... yet. There are a few times I've gotten totally ripped by a stormbow, but I have to say its not that often. This usually happens when the way the human wielding said instrument of death gets really good spawns and his team is constantly protecting him. The stormbow is actually weaker 1v1 you will often die before the killing blow lands. And the stormbow is a great answer to vampires that gang up on humans. I prefer the warbow or compound bow when I have space. But if the vampires start clumping up and ganging up on us in close quarters I switch to storm bow.

Maybe a good alternative to nerfing the damage would be to make the stormbow slightly less accurate. So you can't use it to snipe as effectively as the other bows. This would also make sense because there is a grenade attached to the arrow, talk about aerodynamics!

Hugbringer
4th Mar 2014, 18:42
I am not sure the stormbow needs a nerf.... yet. There are a few times I've gotten totally ripped by a stormbow, but I have to say its not that often. This usually happens when the way the human wielding said instrument of death gets really good spawns and his team is constantly protecting him. The stormbow is actually weaker 1v1 you will often die before the killing blow lands. And the stormbow is a great answer to vampires that gang up on humans. I prefer the warbow or compound bow when I have space. But if the vampires start clumping up and ganging up on us in close quarters I switch to storm bow.

Maybe a good alternative to nerfing the damage would be to make the stormbow slightly less accurate. So you can't use it to snipe as effectively as the other bows. This would also make sense because there is a grenade attached to the arrow, talk about aerodynamics!

I wouldn't want to reduce the accuracy of the bow, just split the damage a bit more evenly between arrow and explosion. If anything it'll make their damage more consistent without rewarding missing or firing at your feet while running away or something similar. Alchemists should be the queens of splash damage.

Psyonix_Corey
4th Mar 2014, 19:00
The damage and accuracy of Stormbow isn't changing, but some of its damage is being redistributed out of the explosion and into the bowshot itself.

I don't want to neuter the bow's entire purpose, but the heavy emphasis on explosive damage over impact damage, combined with a generous AOE radius on unaimed shots, was making it too easy to spam at the ground and do heavy damage to targets you missed completely.

Think of it more like: Stormbow will be just as effective when aimed properly, but will deal greater impact damage and reduced AOE damage (more like a 60/40 AOE split vs. what it is now).