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Bevacur
6th Dec 2009, 16:08
Spoilers for people who have not played the first game.


At the end you have a choice go on the chopter and leave everyone to burn OR go save your friends at the church.

The choice where you attempt to save Rific? and shelly from the church and escape to the pier, after shelly runs away Jenny gets shot.

When Kane jumps onto the boat and Lynch gets shot in the shoulder, Kane starts talking to Jenny unaware she is dead as her head is limp and Kane continues talking to Jenny saying everything is fine and how he has a letter that is not yet finished and wished he started writing it earlier.

Is Kane now insane?

GrievousOdyssey
6th Dec 2009, 16:20
No ...

Thread closed ...

Seriously though , he's not insane , he was just in denial ...

Edit : Depends really , what do you mean by 'insane' ? ...
Will Kane go berzerk more often/remain silent most of the time/consider suicide ? Maybe ...
Will Kane start talking to dead people/draw circles on the floor/play hide and seek with Lynch ? No ...

One of Seven
6th Dec 2009, 18:53
I would say he was just depressed and in denial. However he now has a Jack Nicholson hairdo from the Shining going on, so maybe. gnrGrievous, did you not see the cutscene after the credits in the first game? Kane lies Jenny in a Pentagram made of chalk, and sells his soul in order to bring her back.

Kent-45
6th Dec 2009, 19:23
Actually this is a good question, but let me share my thoughts.

No, Kane is not "insane" ... but Kane does display a pattern of delusional behavior throughout the game. His delusion is that somehow he will save his family, and everything will be the way it was.

Throughout the game he is repeatedly pushed away by his daughter (who hates his guts) and his wife (who hates his guts more) ... even as they both declare their undying hatred for him, wish he was dead, etc, Kane keeps on trying to "win them over" so to speak. In this way, Kane is pretty delusional... he is just so fixated on saving his family that it defies reason or logic.

What happens on the way to boat in the final level is no exception. His daughter is (presumably) dead, and Lynch even points out this fact. Kane's stubborn denial that his daughter isn't dead, and even talking to her (presumably) dead body on the boat is just a manifestation of this delusion of his.

You see, Kane sees his daughter as his redemption of sorts. His daughter is the "Heaven" that he will never see. He's so fixed on it that he just can't let it go. I think the fact that Kane is in a sequel, and is doing a big score with Lynch, tells me one thing: Kane has obviously let go of his delusion and moved on.

Then again, none of this stuff really phased Kane anyway. When his wife was killed, he snapped, but afterwards very matter-of-factly got in a giant truck and broke into a prison facility. In Kane's world, he doesn't feel remorse or regret (even though he alludes to his letter to Jenny) ... the simple fact is that Kane is too far gone to really *feel* anything at this point. The whole world could burn down in front of em and I doubt it would phase him much at all. Let's not forget the title: Kane & Lynch: Dead Men ... keyword being "Dead Men" ... for all intents and purposes these are dead men walking among us.

Unpaid Intern
6th Dec 2009, 21:29
^^ Interesting post man. (as are your other posts in the 'symbolism in KL' thread).

I think that you are right about Kane and in any case, story-wise, it wouldn't make sense for Kane to go too far over the edge simply because that's Lynch territory. Kane has his issues, sure, but the duo works best with Kane as the straight man and Lynch as the nutter.

Would be funny though if at some point, Kane loses it and Lynch is the one to be taken a little aback and reign him in with a "Kane, take it easy..." :)

GrievousOdyssey
6th Dec 2009, 23:21
Neither Lynch nor Kane are insane people , they're just two guys who keeps making mistakes and Believes that there is way to be forgiven ... and yes , to the point that it seems ... childish ...

Think about it , a letter to apologise for the fourteen years of absence ? ...
This is something that i found it to be very interesting (if not very realistic) : it's that Lynch had a more rational sense of reality than Kane has ...

It's this one little thing that makes them a bit different , how they handle their issues :
By the end of the game Lynch will state that even his 'hallucinations' isn't so much of big deal to him than it was in the beginning , essentially , Lynch learned what it is to "deal with it" ...
To his eyes , Kane was nothing more than a drama queen and i agree , but are we criticizing Kane ? no , in fact , Lynch was trying to protect him , to tell him to keep a distance between his departed normal life and the merciless life they're leading now ...

GrievousOdyssey
6th Dec 2009, 23:34
But how well will Kane manage to Deal with it ?...
That's a theme i hope Dog Days will be treating ...
And what is the reason to live for Dead Men with no redemption ...


gnrGrievous, did you not see the cutscene after the credits in the first game? Kane lies Jenny in a Pentagram made of chalk, and sells his soul in order to bring her back.

Be quiet ! That's top secret material that only a few selected members of the White Rabbit Cult has knowledge of !!!...

I'm gonna report you ,and then ,we'll lynch you !...
And then there will be cake ...


^^ Interesting post man. (as are your other posts in the 'symbolism in KL' thread).

Really ? there was thread on the symbolism and other crazy stuff ?...
Boy oh boy this is one serious game ,and one crazy forum to have people talking about dramatic stuff ...
Guess real life and video games can be one and the same ...

Kent-45
6th Dec 2009, 23:39
Would be funny though if at some point, Kane loses it and Lynch is the one to be taken a little aback and reign him in with a "Kane, take it easy..." :)

Kane & Lynch often balance eachother out like that too, which I think is kinda awesome. When Kane went crazy with the shovel, Lynch was there yanking him back to reality. When Lynch flies off the handles in the bank and such, Kane is there reeling him back in.

GrievousOdyssey
6th Dec 2009, 23:49
My favorite though is when Lynch says "Stop it , you're freaking me out !" when you shoot at him ...

So cute ...

EDIT : JESUS CHRIST ! ...
I mean how could we be so stupid ? ...
Of course Kane lost his sanity ! ...
Just look at the artwork ...

He is wearing A TIE ...

Do you need more proof than this ? ...

Counter Arguement : one could believe that after the events of Dead Men , Kane is slowly becoming not so different than Lynch ... which perhaps explains why he is wearing a tie ... something that was part of Lynch's trademark ...

Kent-45
7th Dec 2009, 00:14
My favorite though is when Lynch says "Stop it , you're freaking me out !" when you shoot at him ...

So cute ...

EDIT : JESUS CHRIST ! ...
I mean how could we be so stupid ? ...
Of course Kane lost his sanity ! ...
Just look at the artwork ...

He is wearing A TIE ...

Do you need more proof than this ? ...

Counter Arguement : one could believe that after the events of Dead Men , Kane is slowly becoming not so different than Lynch ... which perhaps explains why he is wearing a tie ... something that was part of Lynch's trademark ...

Uhhhh.... Kane is pretty well-dressed for the first half the game until he goes to Cuba. Grey suit, brown dress shoes, collared shirt.

him wearing a tie is not that far a stretch :D

GrievousOdyssey
7th Dec 2009, 15:53
As silly as this may sound , do you know that some people can't tell which is Lynch and which is Kane but only through their clothing ? ...

Now that they spent so much time remembering that Lynch is the one wearing a tie , what do you think will happen once they start playing Dog Days ? ...

Kent-45
7th Dec 2009, 16:08
From the developer interviews, Lynch was intended to be a "well dressed redneck" from the get-go... It's clear that they've abandoned that (or who knows, maybe Lynch will wear a suit or something)

I've noticed one thing about Kane & Lynch, their clothing seems to be situational. When they go to the club, they wear suit coats, when they're out of prison they are in orange jumpsuits, when they're slogging it out in Cuba... military camo... I expect that Kane & Lynch will wear a variety of things throughout the game, depending on what the situation calls for.

I wanna see Kane & Lynch wearing one of these in Shanghai :D
http://www.mrsretail.com/martialarts/images/0494-LG.jpg

GrievousOdyssey
7th Dec 2009, 16:17
The thing that made Lynch so iconic in Dead Men was that he IS a redneck in a classy suit ...
You don't know when is he going to punch you across the table ...
It had something menacing about having such an unstable personality in this ... suit ... and i liked the idea ...

Now ...
He is just another redneck hobo who likes shooting ...

The difference is staggering ...

OMGmyFACE
10th Dec 2009, 01:00
I don't think Kane's lost his sanity so much as he's finally reached rockbottom. He was damaged through the first game but he's so stubborn and demanding of others that he locked onto his goal and nothing else mattered. Cut to Jenny's death. He's, at this point, lost everything after he was given another "chance" to make things right. He was on death row, resigned to his fate, and then when The7 laid out the deal for him, it was still concrete that he was going to die no matter what. He even tells Jenny in the helicopter that he's pretty much done. His ideal means more than his life, obviously, but at the end, he loses his family AND doesn't die despite more people around him being hurt. On the boat, he's in some serious denial and he needs to finish telling her about that letter no matter the cost. Once he's done telling his message to her, I'm just going to assume he snapped. Lynch probably would've set the country on fire and jumped out of a plane but Kane's a stubborn prick of a guy. I don't know where the story takes these guys but it's gonna be darker now that we've got Kane way past the point of giving a *****. And Lynch as his moral compass? I think I'd do all I could to remain sane if that were the case, lol.

Kent-45
10th Dec 2009, 02:50
I don't think Kane's lost his sanity so much as he's finally reached rockbottom. He was damaged through the first game but he's so stubborn and demanding of others that he locked onto his goal and nothing else mattered. Cut to Jenny's death. He's, at this point, lost everything after he was given another "chance" to make things right. He was on death row, resigned to his fate, and then when The7 laid out the deal for him, it was still concrete that he was going to die no matter what. He even tells Jenny in the helicopter that he's pretty much done. His ideal means more than his life, obviously, but at the end, he loses his family AND doesn't die despite more people around him being hurt. On the boat, he's in some serious denial and he needs to finish telling her about that letter no matter the cost. Once he's done telling his message to her, I'm just going to assume he snapped. Lynch probably would've set the country on fire and jumped out of a plane but Kane's a stubborn prick of a guy. I don't know where the story takes these guys but it's gonna be darker now that we've got Kane way past the point of giving a *****. And Lynch as his moral compass? I think I'd do all I could to remain sane if that were the case, lol.

I agree with everything you've said here. It raises a very interesting point... since Kane's entire reason for living was to find his daughter, why is he still alive? Why hasn't he put his own USP in his mouth and ended it all?

Kane & Lynch 2 will have to incorporate some sort of reason for Kane to keep on chugging along, because a "big score" is not something that motivates Kane. Kane's motivations are generally abstract (revenge, closure, etc) and Lynch's motivations tend to be very concrete and materialistic. It makes sense that Lynch would go chasing some big job in Shanghai, but it makes no sense why Kane would continue with him unless he were forced to, or had a score to settle.

I think despite all of Kane's statements that he doesn't care about dying, I think obviously he *does* care about dying... why else stay with Lynch in shanghai? I think Kane is a survivor though, hell... both these men are survivors in the most fundamental way. I don't think Kane knows how to just "give up" ... this is a hardened mercenary here. He's lived a life of violence and tactical training... I don't think he honestly knows how to give up. He will continue living until something kills him, that's my prediction.

GrievousOdyssey
10th Dec 2009, 07:18
Adam Marcus surely picked up a copy of 'Endgame' by Samuel Beckett ...

Just deal with it ...