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View Full Version : First K&L2 story in magazine (art included)



Acid_Burn
24th Nov 2009, 10:29
http://www.myfavouritemagazines.co.uk/covers_large/xbw.jpg
http://www.computerandvideogames.com/article.php?id=228071

:rolleyes:

Do you like how our dearest friends look like? ;)

Acid_Burn
24th Nov 2009, 10:36
And the second one
http://www.myfavouritemagazines.co.uk/covers_large/pom.jpg

UhUh
24th Nov 2009, 10:48
Intresting article!
Love to hear that Io's still a fan of Micheal Mann :D loved Collateral, the same style was used again on Miami Vice; will see if there's citations in the game levels!

On the shaky camera, can't wait to try it, I'm all for the immersion even if it means more chaotic action, don't know if anybody else feels the same way thou :S
Reminds me of how so many people dislike Mirror's Edge for the excessive head movment.

ps: Lynch never looked so gansta before XD

Keir
24th Nov 2009, 11:35
Nice work Acid Burn. Here's a bigger scan.... (I love this render :D )

http://img149.imageshack.us/img149/4762/opmnov09cover.jpg

And here are some cool quotes....



“The violence is immediate and vicious…”

“It’s loud and fast, with fighting at very close quarters.”

“But it’s not just the pace of the action that’s exciting: it’s the way it’s presented. The entire game is delivered in YouTube style”

“It’s District 9 meets Cloverfield”

“…striking and instantly attention-grabbing; as if everything is seen from a mobile phone chasing our anti-heroes. It’s not just a gimmick; it creates a distinctly anxious vibe”

“The result is that while you’re playing the game there’s also the sensation of being a panicked observer, rushing to keep up with Kane and Lynch”

“…it’s refreshing to see IO is still willing to take risks with edgy characters, adult themes, and plunder a new cinematic vein for influences.”

“If Uncharted 2: Among Thieves takes the route of big matinee action, this is taking its cue from violent crime thrillers”

Falkenwut
24th Nov 2009, 11:35
Chic-Chic - BOOM! lovin this! will put the article in the Q&A article!

EDIT: So far it's met what I expected (reguarding details...) I always keep my hopes up for IOI games xD. Can't wait for in-game footage and more details!!!

Bevacur
24th Nov 2009, 12:22
They look like violent homeless people.

Oh god the picture gives of a vibe of some comedy i dont know why but its Lynch's smile and the way he is doing a gun gesture with his hand that gives this vibe off.

Since Lynch seems to be at the front and Kane in the background, maybe Lynch is the main character. NOOOOO i want Kane :(

Falkenwut
24th Nov 2009, 12:28
Yeah, Kane's the sidekick here. There will be dark-comedy for sure.. I mean smiling with blood in his teeth.. Come on!!! IT's clear :P

Acid_Burn
24th Nov 2009, 12:45
Yeah, Kane's the sidekick here. There will be dark-comedy for sure.. I mean smiling with blood in his teeth.. Come on!!! IT's clear :P

I'm sure that the article will make it clear :)
And there's some screens.

Dr Klowneus
24th Nov 2009, 13:00
This is gonna be so freakin' awesome, also Kane needs a shave, lol

UhUh
24th Nov 2009, 14:07
This is gonna be so freakin' awesome, also Kane needs a shave, lol

Indeed :D he's looking more and more like the 7's leader.

Zombie Fred
24th Nov 2009, 14:34
Holy ****, this is going to be awesome :D Man, I hope the characters have more background this time around.

Kent-45
24th Nov 2009, 14:50
Hmmm....

hmmm...........

I really have no words to describe what you've done to my favorite game characters of all time.

I really have no words.

Acid_Burn
24th Nov 2009, 14:51
In good or in a bad meaning? :)

Falkenwut
24th Nov 2009, 15:02
Indeed :D he's looking more and more like the 7's leader.

Yeah he does! He totally looks like the Older Brother from Kane and Lynch 1

Other then that I think Kane does get a shave. If you guys remember the NSFW level.. Kane doesn't have a long beard of haircut. So... Probably he gets a shave later on

Still.. I keep lovin it the more I look at it xD
EDIT: What gun is kane holding?? Any gun experts know? I'm guessing an MP5...

JD_Method
24th Nov 2009, 16:01
Guess I was right about the handheld camera thing. Well, I want to see it before I judge it. Might turn out really good.


EDIT: What gun is kane holding?? Any gun experts know? I'm guessing an MP5...

Looks like a SIG 552 Commando, the same gun he used in the first game.

Mercenary of The7
24th Nov 2009, 16:19
Uhhh, I'm really sorry for being a total downer here, but I'm really not a fan of the new character designs. Kane looks like a hobo and Lynch's southern style 'stache looks a bit stupid (IMHO).

And the page doesn't work for me for some reason.

Kent-45
24th Nov 2009, 16:58
First off....that is not a SIG SG assault rifle, it's a submachine gun.

second off....the new character designs are ridiculous. Lynch has a handlebar mustache, and Kane looks like a ******* disgruntled hobo.

I am very concerned about the artistic direction this series is taking. I'd be lying if I said I liked it one bit.

MARCOtheDUDE
24th Nov 2009, 17:12
The character models are great. The beard on Kane is great. No matter what ending you chose in Dead Men, the weight of the decision and consequences have obviously effect Kane. If he's depressed shaving is the last thing he's thinking about. He & Lynch are also on vacation in Shanghai, so again shaving isn't a big concern. The look works.

As for Lynch's mustache, really? You people are complaining about that? He had a goatee in the last game for cryin out loud! So he decided to grow out the mustache.

Next time hate on something else. This is not a big issue. If it is, go back to playing Halo.

dark_angel_7
24th Nov 2009, 17:35
Looks great, was this the first render that Keir was going to release sometime later?

GrievousOdyssey
24th Nov 2009, 17:39
Next time hate on something else. This is not a big issue. If it is, go back to playing Halo.

On behalf of my brothers ...

Please ...

Take Your Fail ...
And Get ... The ... **** ... Out ...

Keir
24th Nov 2009, 18:04
Looks great, was this the first render that Keir was going to release sometime later?

Yep. I haven't got a date for that release yet though, but as soon as I have I'll let you guys know first.

JD_Method
24th Nov 2009, 18:38
First off....that is not a SIG SG assault rifle, it's a submachine gun.

Are you looking at the same gun I am?

There's a gun on his back. And what I can see of it, looks like a SIG 552 Commando.

http://www.thefirearmblog.com/blog/wp-content/uploads/2009/06/stgw-90-kurz.jpg

Compare.

Falkenwut
24th Nov 2009, 18:48
yeah totally it! Thanks for the clarification JD Method

EDIT: Reguarding the concern about the beards... These guys are too busy killing to give a damn how they look like...
Apparently lynch is just having soo much fun.. with the blood trickling in his mouth i'm considering that this will be a fun brutal game xD

Kent-45
24th Nov 2009, 18:49
I stand corrected. He has it slung over his shoulder it seems.

yeah definitely a SIG rifle. Nice to know he still has it.

Cmd_lupin
24th Nov 2009, 19:01
:hmm:
It certainly is shaping up to be an "home-made" look stylized game, specially due to the light (bloom) filters ... And Lynch DOES looks happy. :nut:
They really are going for something different than everything else - I shall wait for more info to make a more formal reply.

Falkenwut
24th Nov 2009, 19:09
Yeah, This is just concept art. Some stuff may change from it. The original K&L concept art had different shapes before it came to the final one.

Beginning: http://www.destructoid.com/elephant//ul/54215-kal.jpg
Ending: http://en.gamers.com/_file/news/1083/200804220155144fq4.jpg

I have the 1st one hanging on my wall.. Just awesome to look at xD

GrievousOdyssey
24th Nov 2009, 19:18
What's your point ? ...

Acid_Burn
24th Nov 2009, 19:55
Yeah, This is just concept art.
It is art, but not concept.

I have the 1st one hanging on my wall.. Just awesome to look at xD
Hm... great idea. I'll print some KL posters for myself...

S.T.A.L.K.E.R
24th Nov 2009, 20:22
guys, I think you should wait a bit until you see the real screenshots of the game. for all you know they might be completely different. plus, lets just see how IOI is going to do this. I'm just happy that they are trying something new.

PS: does someone have a working link? I'm dying to read the preview.

Acid_Burn
24th Nov 2009, 20:42
It was not a full preview. :)

Falkenwut
24th Nov 2009, 20:43
What's your point ? ...

My point here is.. They may change the shape of the mustache for all we know.. It MAY change over time. Emphasis on MAY here.

Bevacur
24th Nov 2009, 21:01
My point here is.. They may change the shape of the mustache for all we know.. It MAY change over time. Emphasis on MAY here.

I agree, characters go over different looks throughout development aka Prototype, Bully, Mass Effect etc

TheMoD
24th Nov 2009, 21:35
PS: does someone have a working link? I'm dying to read the preview.

yeah i'd also really really like to read it O.O

Vulture
24th Nov 2009, 22:22
oh my god :S
i kinda dont like how kane looks but my bigger problem that lynch is the big guy now :(

MARCOtheDUDE
24th Nov 2009, 22:34
Too many "Queer Eye for the Straight Guys" here.

DrDoom
24th Nov 2009, 22:35
Does this mean that Lynch will play the bigger role this time around, cause if so I gotta say that kinda makes me disappointed.

Kane was my more favorite of the two.

Mercenary of The7
25th Nov 2009, 01:16
Too many "Queer Eye for the Straight Guys" here.

Sorry, some of us just don't like the new character designs.

Arsh
25th Nov 2009, 01:31
Ha, this oughta be wicked.

DrDoom
25th Nov 2009, 01:34
Wonder why they went with a black background. Would have loved to see some colors, or at least a hint on places we would go.

DrDoom
25th Nov 2009, 01:35
Sorry, some of us just don't like the new character designs.

Not really new, just updated with better graphics and aged. They've probably been living through hell. Makes sense they'd look like it.

S.T.A.L.K.E.R
25th Nov 2009, 02:40
This reminds me of the flack that Rockstar got over the new Max Payne game. Max Payne now basically looks just like Kane in this one but with a more hobo-ish look(even more than Kane!)

One of Seven
25th Nov 2009, 04:46
Truthfully, I love the new looks. In particular Kane's. He's kind of got that sinister bastard look like the older brother of The Seven had, that "I've been doing this for a while now." kinda look. And Lynch seems like more of a bulldog now. And I actually like the idea of Lynch possibly being the main character in this one. It makes sense.

In the first one you saw Kane's mercenary side, he traveled the world and battled other Mercs, Yakuza, Swat, etc. Kane fought guy's his level and in his profession, Lynch just chose to come along. Now due to their being in the underworld of Shanghai, I think it would be more fitting to let the "brute" take the spotlight.

Kent-45
25th Nov 2009, 05:08
I am just really shocked because this first envisioning of these two characters is so different than I imagined that it's hard to really maintain any sort of point of reference here.

The problem is not that they "changed" Kane & Lynch. The problem is that they don't work. Lynch is clearly trying to be intimidating but he just looks silly. - Kane is equally out of place. It's clear that someone is trying to convey "grittiness" here and it's not working.

These characters do not look gritty at all. They don't look intimidating. They don't look like people that you would take seriously. You can argue all you want that it's pointless and trivial but if you saw these guys in a dark alleyway your first thought would be "Hobos" and not criminals... and if you deny this, well, you've never been downtown in a major city before.

If you love the way the characters look then I respect your opinion but I gotta be honest here when I say my initial reaction is not good. I still admire and respect the developers for the work they've done though, but this is one thing I simply can't kiss their ass for. The style of this photo just isn't working for me, and I don't think I'm alone in this assessment.

DrDoom
25th Nov 2009, 05:19
I don't really think Lynch is trying to be intimidating. If anything I'd say more joking then intimidating, especially with the smile on his face. Makes him look more crazy actually.

I like the way they look. Like they just got the crap kicked out of them but still came out on top.

One of Seven
25th Nov 2009, 05:38
Eh, whatever, to each his own. Kane's not intimidating at first glance, but I think he's got more of a psychological fear effect to him. He's an older looking guy, may not look mean, but he can turn in the blink of an eye and show what he's truly capable of. Kind of like Bundy (pretty sure it was Bundy), everybody around him thought he was nice, they couldn't be anymore wrong. Not saying Kane's like Bundy, but you know what I mean.

Well, Lynch is silly. I mean had you seen Lynch the way he previously looked in a dark alleyway, would it be that much more intimidating? The only thing really different with him is his stash. And I don't think it's just gritty art that's trying to be portrayed here, and I guess that's kind of up to what you would consider grittiness anyway. For all we know these two could now be working for some crime syndicate, Kane sort of (to me) came of as a cleaner or the sicko that they (the organization or whoever) would bring in to psychologically break people, where as Lynch came off like the guy who was sent to the people that Kane, or the organization were finished with.

I just saw the looks to be reflective of their new lifestyles, not so much intimidating. But as I said, to each his own.

PNG
25th Nov 2009, 11:35
Looking forward to this one!

FreedomPhantom
25th Nov 2009, 14:06
Kane looks so freaking awesome love his beard

Dr Klowneus
25th Nov 2009, 14:39
A Challenge then, to all Kane & Lynch Fans, to celebrate the release of Kane and Lynch 2, Grow a beard in the style of Kane or Lynch, you have from now until the game is released, participate and you shall win the respect and adoration of this forum, post pics on the day the game is released

side note, Kane ended up with a beard at the end of dead men, doesn't seem so shocking to me

DrDoom
25th Nov 2009, 16:03
I'm pretty sure I could handle Kane's beard. It kinda looks like mine now except more shaggy.

Acid_Burn
25th Nov 2009, 16:42
DrDoom, and here comes our first KL2 cosplay :D

iCEQB
25th Nov 2009, 16:58
Can't anyone with that Magazine scan the pages? Or make some hihg quality pictures?

Thanks,
iCEQB

DrDoom
25th Nov 2009, 18:02
DrDoom, and here comes our first KL2 cosplay :D

A little dye job, but I could totally pull a Kane.

Kent-45
25th Nov 2009, 20:02
I can't even find a place to order the magazine in question. It looks like the subscriptions are handled through Futuregames.

Falkenwut
25th Nov 2009, 20:18
If anyone can scan the pages.. that would be awesome!

Acid_Burn
25th Nov 2009, 20:21
That would be illegal :whistle:

iCEQB
25th Nov 2009, 21:24
Doens't matter....we're smooth criminal :thumb:

Falkenwut
25th Nov 2009, 22:23
http://www.incgamers.com/News/19778/io-threw-away-everything-for-kane--lynch-2

This link is a small hint what's in the magazine.
Nothing that we don't know here.. WE WANT MORE LEAKING!!!
lolll

Kent-45
28th Nov 2009, 04:02
Maybe it's just the way Kane's head is arched, but his scar looks really less noticeable. I mean it's there, obviously, but it seems less defined... maybe I'm crazy

DrDoom
28th Nov 2009, 18:25
If you look at the bigger pic, the scar is still there and can clearly see it.

I think it's just the way his head is pointing up like you said.

Falkenwut
28th Nov 2009, 20:54
Maybe healed up abit??? Doubt that's the case...

Unpaid Intern
28th Nov 2009, 22:54
It's funny how touchy people are about what the game hero should look like. I guess that's why all game heroes look eerily similar:

Syphon Filter
http://images.google.com/url?source=imgres&ct=img&q=http://www.blogcdn.com/www.joystiq.com/media/2007/05/syphon.jpg&usg=AFQjCNFKCS6IcQsolyXDgkpiHbeDQ2fBEg

Uncharted
http://images.google.com/url?source=imgres&ct=img&q=http://home.online.no/~lapelang/pix/wallpaper_uncharted_drakes_fortune_01_1680x1050.jpg&usg=AFQjCNFsIPjKBHzImhOEw583RKbtuCmAMA

Just Cause
http://images.google.com/url?source=imgres&ct=img&q=http://i.neoseeker.com/p/Games/Xbox_360/Action/Adventure/just_cause_2_profilelarge.jpg&usg=AFQjCNFeSNt_Nvpqby4W2dKZIoqKFuqasg

Far Cry
http://images.google.com/url?source=imgres&ct=img&q=http://www.blogcdn.com/nintendo.joystiq.com/media/2006/09/jack_carver_ubi.jpg&usg=AFQjCNEORcn-9uwXbeYDt6mGbzZoNMIiLA

Splinter Cell
http://images.google.com/url?source=imgres&ct=img&q=http://scrawlfx.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/07/sdcc-09-conviction-trailer.jpg&usg=AFQjCNFQsXSRRsq0CfFytIqAGQQEKbWiTA

...and the list goes on :)

Vulture
28th Nov 2009, 23:13
thank god naught dog changed elena at the end of the production xd

TheMoD
29th Nov 2009, 00:24
Just Cause
http://images.google.com/url?source=imgres&ct=img&q=http://i.neoseeker.com/p/Games/Xbox_360/Action/Adventure/just_cause_2_profilelarge.jpg&usg=AFQjCNFeSNt_Nvpqby4W2dKZIoqKFuqasg


I'm so disappointed in his new look, Rico looked awesome in the first just cause. Why did they change his looks?? >:(


thank god naught dog changed elena at the end of the production xd

Yeah she looked weird ^^

Mercenary of The7
29th Nov 2009, 02:58
@Unpaid Intern: Yes, because Kane & Lynch looked sooooooooo much like them, amirite?

Kent-45
29th Nov 2009, 03:16
I don't think you can compare Kane & Lynch to these action titles. Kane & Lynch is more of a crime game like Grand Theft Auto. That said... I don't expect Kane to look clean cut like these guys, but I don't expect him to look like a drunken hobo either.

Falkenwut
29th Nov 2009, 11:26
I don't think you can compare Kane & Lynch to these action titles. Kane & Lynch is more of a crime game like Grand Theft Auto. That said... I don't expect Kane to look clean cut like these guys, but I don't expect him to look like a drunken hobo either.

Wel you are right, you defenatly can't compare K&L to any of the action titles out there. Technically not even to GTA series coz GTA is pretty much straight foreward next to K&L.

As for Kane looking like a drunken hobo - I'd remind you that kane didn't have a beard in the Burger joint trailer.. I'm assuming he gets a shave at some point.

You can also see the change of Kane's appearance in the first K&L:
First he had a beard...
From the heist levels till They kill Retomoto Kane has shaved and has a patch on his nose
From the Freedom Fighters level till the end his beard grew again and he removed his patch... Just pointing that out...

Unpaid Intern
29th Nov 2009, 12:26
I don't think you can compare Kane & Lynch to these action titles. Kane & Lynch is more of a crime game like Grand Theft Auto.

I'm not comparing gameplay, I'm comparing character designs, which you can definitely do across genres. There is absolutely no excuse for all the titles I mentioned pumping out the same square-jawed, featureless sears catalogue model. There are ways of designing a character with short dark hair that has a unique face. GTA4 did it with Niko Bellic and everyone loves the guy.


That said... I don't expect Kane to look clean cut like these guys, but I don't expect him to look like a drunken hobo either.

I totally respect your opinion. It's down to personal slant and there is just no arguing that :)

However, for games to evolve past B-movie themes and cliches, developers must stop whining about how games are misunderstood, looked down upon by the general public and do something about it. It seems like the games industry is deathly afraid of taking the slightest of chances creatively. I mostly blame their lack of vision and backbone but having a consumer base that embraces originality and shuns the lack of it would help.

Sadly, I don't even see the games media discussing this problem. Gerstmann was all over K&L characters being 'ugly' but doesn't bat an eye at character designs/personalities that are unoriginal to the point of being insulting.

I say it again: game culture needs to evolve if games seriously want to be considered as "the 10th Art". Right now that claim is a little bit of a joke...

Unpaid Intern
29th Nov 2009, 13:48
@Unpaid Intern: Yes, because Kane & Lynch looked sooooooooo much like them, amirite?

Somehow, you missed my point completely. The point is that characters that when developers are afraid to deviate from the norm, you get the kind of boring and forgettable heroes in my example. You could easily mistake any of them for the other.

Besides that, I don't think it's a random artistic gesture to make K&L look scruffy and messed up. It serves to support the characters and story. Neither they nor their situation is under control so I doubt that grooming and styling is of a big concern to them.

dark_angel_7
29th Nov 2009, 15:28
I totally respect your opinion. It's down to personal slant and there is just no arguing that :)

However, for games to evolve past B-movie themes and cliches, developers must stop whining about how games are misunderstood, looked down upon by the general public and do something about it. It seems like the games industry is deathly afraid of taking the slightest of chances creatively. I mostly blame their lack of vision and backbone but having a consumer base that embraces originality and shuns the lack of it would help.

Sadly, I don't even see the games media discussing this problem. Gerstmann was all over K&L characters being 'ugly' but doesn't bat an eye at character designs/personalities that are unoriginal to the point of being insulting.

I say it again: game culture needs to evolve if games seriously want to be considered as "the 10th Art". Right now that claim is a little bit of a joke...

Wow - spot on! :thumb: I don't mind Kane & Lynch's scruffy, semi-old and ugly looks. It makes them stand out from the other male characters who look like clones of one another. I think this will help the game stand out from the others and this is what we should hope for. We don't need another clone of Modern Warfare 2 with a mix of GTA 4 and whatever else they can think of copying off. The more unique the characters, story and game play is the better. Doesn't have to be ground-breaking but just different in the good way. :)

Kent-45
29th Nov 2009, 15:53
Gerstmann was pretty tough on Kane & Lynch, and a lot of his complaints were true. The excessive swearing, the repetitive Fragile Alliance levels, etc.. but he clearly didn't play through the game very far because a lot of his footage is from the first levels and such... so I don't think the review was very accurate of the gameplay experience. By most accounts, it was a pretty average shooter, flaws and all.

It should be noted that IOI's twitter gave a shoutout to Gerstmann's twitter a few days ago (something congratulatory, I dont' remember what) and according to an article I just read, apparently IOI "read every review and commentary they could find on Kane & Lynch and threw out everything that was bad" for Kane & Lynch 2

and the flaws are the reason why I like Kane as a character so much. If he looked like all those other action heroes no one would remember him. It's the uniqueness that makes him a good character.

GrievousOdyssey
29th Nov 2009, 16:07
Jeff listed "Kane and Lynch are ugly characters" in the negative part of the game ... That alone destroyed the credibility of his review ...

It also didn't took long before some people checked his achievements and saw he only completed the first level ...
Which in turn explains why Jeff complained that every time you give an order you get a "**** you" replay ... the first chapter was the only part of the game where people ALWAYS gives the "**** you" reply ...
Maybe Jeff wasn't paying attention but Kane wasn't exactly in a position to give orders ... anywya ...

I don't care how much six out of ten one game can get , i care about the Reason it got a six out of ten , but if the reasons themselves are unreasonable ...

Why should the developers give a damn about it ? ...

PS : Lynch has got hair ... that's VERY unique in this generation of gaming characters ... :thumb:

DrDoom
29th Nov 2009, 17:17
Some of these I don't agree with, if only you can change the appearance or there actually changed but I had to post this...

http://www.gossipgamers.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/03/1237687236272.jpg

GrievousOdyssey
29th Nov 2009, 17:22
Yeah can you believe it ? Lynch was bald at first ...

Kent-45
29th Nov 2009, 17:47
That's probably one of my favorite renders of Kane... and the irony is that it's not even a game render... it's like promo art

GrievousOdyssey
29th Nov 2009, 17:53
It's actually the very first artwork of Kane & Lynch made available for the public ...
Naturally it went through lots of changes ...

But that image of two men with money bills raining down is still very iconic ...

Kent-45
29th Nov 2009, 18:00
This is actually an early concept for Kane:

http://img9.imageshack.us/img9/9589/kane1.jpg

GrievousOdyssey
29th Nov 2009, 18:12
The hell did you find that ? ...

Oh it was in the developer video ...

Kent-45
29th Nov 2009, 18:14
bingo!

DrDoom
29th Nov 2009, 18:23
So originally he was going to be younger and have no scar.

Unpaid Intern
29th Nov 2009, 18:25
Gerstmann was pretty tough on Kane & Lynch, and a lot of his complaints were true. The excessive swearing, the repetitive Fragile Alliance levels, etc.. but he clearly didn't play through the game very far because a lot of his footage is from the first levels and such... so I don't think the review was very accurate of the gameplay experience. By most accounts, it was a pretty average shooter, flaws and all.

You are right: some of the flaws Gerstmann pointed out were very real. I also thought the swearing was over-the-top. K&L are criminals of course and that's how these guys talk but maybe they could have simply done a bit less talking. It was very quickly established that they didn't like each other, making the constant bickering unnecessary, repetitive and annoying. (it also had less and less impact as you went along because it was so overused)

He was also right about the lack of polish in certain areas of the game; some levels were beautiful (this he didn't mention) but some were indeed very average. The SFX were just bad, controls weren't solid... I did like the characters a lot though and thought that Jeff's complaints about them being unlikeable (OMG!) were just silly.

Anyhow: It was mostly his score and generally whiny, bush league tone that I did not agree with. If I want self-indulgent rants, I'll go to YouTube or any games forum. I expect a lot more from a professional reviewer.

GrievousOdyssey
29th Nov 2009, 18:33
Jeff DID say that the locations were interesting , in the 'Good' part of the game (the other good thing for him was the 'idea' of Fragile Alliance) , granted he didn't exactly say it was beautiful ...

In any case , the Gertsmanngate incident destroyed gamespot's community , that was a real shame ...

Unpaid Intern
29th Nov 2009, 18:48
Jeff DID say that the locations were interesting , in the 'Good' part of the game (the other good thing for him was the 'idea' of Fragile Alliance) , granted he didn't exactly say it was beautiful ...

Yeah, he did say that. I don't know how he failed to acknowledge some of the best levels though. The Retomoto building, The Mizuki and Tokyo Streets were pretty spectacular. Either he never saw them or he was already foaming in the mouth as he did :)


In any case , the Gertsmanngate incident destroyed gamespot's community , that was a real shame ...

Yeah. I don't know what happened there but I don't blame IO or even Eidos for what happened to Jeff. It was Gamespot management who fired him.

UhUh
29th Nov 2009, 19:16
The worst thing is that to anybody K&L is "that game about the gamespot controversy", it's not about its merits as about the legacy.

Dogdays, before being a good game, has to fight that bad reputation otherwise few will give it a chance; don't know how they'll put it off, but I hope for the best.

Anyway, I find apropriate that a game with such bad protagonists has a bad reputation, maybe they should use it at their advantage: you're not bad enough for this game ;) (not in this cheesy way)
Maybe give away at conventions their identikit (http://deadmen.ru/games/kl1/heroes/LynchMugFinal.jpg) with some advise to stay away form them.

We here see K&L and think there's a lot of potential, most couldn't find something to relate to and felt it wasn't worth it; my only hope is that they're not going to step back too much, as for the characters, the game's best things are those little differenceses from the rest, take them away and it'll be just another violent game.
In time, I believe that they'll be recognised for what they are and not what they're supposed to be, but to pull it off they have to stick to their guns.

ps: i'd like to see somebody in the game complain about the continuos swearing:
kane: f.uck this.
lynch: f.uck that.
random guy: do you guys just have to use that f-word all the time?
kane&lynch look at eachother.
kane&lynch: f.uck you!


pps: take away that f.ucking filter, it's the kane&lynch forum, not barbie's :D

GrievousOdyssey
29th Nov 2009, 19:27
What ?...
I don't give a damn about who fired Jeff ,the guy lost alot of my respect ever since that review ,it was just 'unworthy' of him ... sure ,he had high hopes for the game ,and he must have been disappointed to see it wasn't what he expected ,but that's not a reason to make such a 'angry' review...

What i Do give a damn is the community , the forum users , who were all ... mad ... to this day , none of us knew exactly 'why' was Jeff fired , but the gamespot's forum was just mad in the end of 2007 , alot of Jeff's loyalists proceeds to give very low scores to Dead Men , calling the game complete trash , but it was such a stupid move because IO didn't deserve all these unfair and unrelated criticism ...

So to sum up ...
IO's game gets burned unreasonably ...
Jeff's sacking leads to the departure of several if not all of the reviewers ...
Many forum users were just ... different afterwards ... most left gamespot , the others just disappeared altogether ...

And that's that ...

Unpaid Intern
29th Nov 2009, 20:05
What ?...

The bit about who's fault it was is just an 'aside' - me thinking out loud. I agree with everything you said in that post.

Unpaid Intern
29th Nov 2009, 20:13
BTW, getting back on topic: the reason for Kane's beard might have to do with Copenhagen street fashion. One of the popular looks here is 'scruffy/casual' thing. One variation of this is the outdoorsy or trucker look characterized by plaid shirts, worker boots, John Deere caps and longinsh hair, a bushy beard or a sleazy mustache. Wife-beaters (ideally with chest hair peeking out) such as the one Lynch is wearing are also popular. ...so in fact, Kane and Lynch are very trendy MFs :)

Kent-45
29th Nov 2009, 20:15
If I hear Kane say "GIT UR DOOOONNNEEE" one ******* time I'm uninstalling the game. That's a promise IOInteractive.... a ******* promise

Unpaid Intern
29th Nov 2009, 20:24
Personally, I would have loved for Lynch to have a bit of a southern bumpkin thing going - it would be hilarious. But unfortunately, that ship has already sailed :)


The worst thing is that to anybody K&L is "that game about the gamespot controversy", it's not about its merits as about the legacy.

That's true but only to a certain degree. The game sold over 1.5 mil units worldwide and I'm pretty sure that the vast majority of the buyers aren't hardcore fans who frequent game forums. The Gerstmann s-storm might be much more localized than we think. I just pray to god that Dog Days delivers and that the haters are left with no ground to stand on. Please be awesome KL2.......

Mercenary of The7
29th Nov 2009, 20:44
BTW, getting back on topic: the reason for Kane's beard might have to do with Copenhagen street fashion. One of the popular looks here is 'scruffy/casual' thing. One variation of this is the outdoorsy or trucker look characterized by plaid shirts, worker boots, John Deere caps and longinsh hair, a bushy beard or a sleazy mustache. Wife-beaters (ideally with chest hair peeking out) such as the one Lynch is wearing are also popular. ...so in fact, Kane and Lynch are very trendy MFs :)

Dude, I live in Copenhagen and if one thing is for sure, it's that looking like a hobo (Kane) and a broke rapist with a handlebar 'stache (Lynch) is not the most chic look these days.

Kent-45
29th Nov 2009, 20:48
Lynch does kinda look like a rapist...

"You got a purty mouth boy"

and this thread just crashed and burned.

Cmd_lupin
29th Nov 2009, 20:58
That's true but only to a certain degree. The game sold over 1.5 mil units worldwide and I'm pretty sure that the vast majority of the buyers aren't hardcore fans who frequent game forums. The Gerstmann s-storm might be much more localized than we think. I just pray to god that Dog Days delivers and that the haters are left with no ground to stand on. Please be awesome KL2.......

It was like Call of duty 6 "No Russian" level - free publicity.

Unpaid Intern
29th Nov 2009, 22:06
Dude, I live in Copenhagen and if one thing is for sure, it's that looking like a hobo (Kane) and a broke rapist with a handlebar 'stache (Lynch) is not the most chic look these days.

Big beard or mustache = hobo, rapist? Haven't you ever spent a night out in Vesterbro?... The handlebar mustache is a little offbeat but mustaches and beards are super common among the 20s 30s trendy crowd.

GrievousOdyssey
30th Nov 2009, 16:30
Asside from this forum , every time i see people in other gaming sites talking about Kane & Lynch it's always the haters ...

" What they're making a sequel to that crap game ? " ...
" Where's the next Hitman ? " ...
" Man , Call of Duty ROCKKKKS ! " ...

Stuff like that ...

Mercenary of The7
30th Nov 2009, 16:46
Big beard or mustache = hobo, rapist? Haven't you ever spent a night out in Vesterbro?... The handlebar mustache is a little offbeat but mustaches and beards are super common among the 20s 30s trendy crowd.

Vesterbro? Yeah, I visit Hawaii Bio every now and then :p

Mustaches and beards has always been "in" in some kind of way, but the only guys I see with beards like Kane's are old bench drinkers.... And some students in their early 20's.

Kent-45
30th Nov 2009, 17:15
Asside from this forum , every time i see people in other gaming sites talking about Kane & Lynch it's always the haters ...

" What they're making a sequel to that crap game ? " ...
" Where's the next Hitman ? " ...
" Man , Call of Duty ROCKKKKS ! " ...

Stuff like that ...

It's the same way in the stores. I've been to two different Gamestops, and both times I picked up a copy of Kane & Lynch, and the sales associate goes

"You don't want that game, it's crap."

or "get Gears of War it's better than that."

There is a very real stigma with the Kane & Lynch series and we can all act like it's not there but all it takes is 5 minutes in the real world and you'll see it very quickly. IOInteractive has a long job ahead of it if they want to restore the franchises' legitimacy and get something good on their hands.

GrievousOdyssey
30th Nov 2009, 17:51
So in other words , that 'Artwork' isn't helping , yes ? ...

TheMoD
30th Nov 2009, 19:50
Asside from this forum , every time i see people in other gaming sites talking about Kane & Lynch it's always the haters ...
...
" Where's the next Hitman ? " ...



I've heard that one a million times, it's so pissing me off, Hitman is awesome, but so is Kane and lynch! The only thing ppl think about when they hear K&L is "crappy videogame that got Jeff Gerstman fired because he told the truth about how crappy it is"

Unpaid Intern
30th Nov 2009, 20:01
the only guys I see with beards like Kane's are old bench drinkers.... And some students in their early 20's.

Aw come on, it doesn't seem that long :) Check out the second dev diary featuring the lead character designer about halfway through - his beard seems about the same length as Kane's so maybe that's got something to do with it.

Anyhow: I'm pretty sure the ingame beard will be shorter, simply because ingame hair is a b*tch and is much easier to do when it's relatively short. Same with Lynch's 'stache.

Falkenwut
30th Nov 2009, 20:01
I don't blame people who aren't a fan of Kane and Lynch to consider it a bad game. I consider the game an insider game.. Like.. You like it or not.. you'll only associate about it with people who liked it...

And annoying as haters go... I do miss our dear bald friend :(

GrievousOdyssey
1st Dec 2009, 16:53
Don't worry my friend ...
Mister Johnson will surely make a surprising appearence ! ...

Vulture
2nd Dec 2009, 18:15
anyone in UK have the magazines? they should be out

Kent-45
2nd Dec 2009, 19:08
why would they only give these articles to european gaming mags? Do they even want this game to be successful?

Mercenary of The7
2nd Dec 2009, 19:24
why would they only give these articles to european gaming mags? Do they even want this game to be successful?

Do europeans even play, or for the matter of fact ever heard about video games?

Cmd_lupin
2nd Dec 2009, 19:32
To respond to your questions in some radom order: yes; maybe; no.

GrievousOdyssey
2nd Dec 2009, 20:37
IO is a Danish company and Eidos is British ...

So ... you do the math ...

Bevacur
2nd Dec 2009, 20:59
anyone in UK have the magazines? they should be out

Its in the shops near me i was going to buy it but a jacket got my attention lol

Vulture
2nd Dec 2009, 22:50
i'll look at a store that sells magazines from the world,if i cannot find one of them there i'll buy it from ebay.. but will have to wait for a week for arrival

Bevacur
2nd Dec 2009, 22:58
i'll look at a store that sells magazines from the world,if i cannot find one of them there i'll buy it from ebay.. but will have to wait for a week for arrival

Try WHSmiths thats where i saw the Kane and Lynch magazine and about a dozen James Cameron Avatar "exclusive" look god it looks like a teens version of smurfs why is everyone so hyped for it just because it has shiny looks and action?

Sorry for being off-topic :(

Vulture
2nd Dec 2009, 23:24
lol i live in Turkey xd

ohitspatty
2nd Dec 2009, 23:46
I should ask my friend from Scotland to get it and send me the scans but knowing life he's busy now :(

Kent-45
3rd Dec 2009, 05:17
they should have given this article to PC Gamer or something... that's my .02

tarmac
3rd Dec 2009, 18:48
I like Kane's beard, myself; paints an image of a truly desperate, broken man. Also suggests he may have been living rough for a while. (Which makes sense judging by the restaurant trailer, as it looks like they'll be spending part, if not all of the game on the run.)

Kent-45
3rd Dec 2009, 18:59
The beard has sort of grown on me. Didn't like it at first, but I kinda get the vibe they want to give Kane. He's an old man, hardened by struggle. He will most likely be in several different stages of shavedness throughout the game.

GrievousOdyssey
3rd Dec 2009, 19:04
Just wait until he starts wearing a hair piece ...

Vulture
10th Dec 2009, 19:35
i just received the mag (ps uk) and the screen look really great.. but the weird thing is there are like a total of 10 pics but u cannot see Kane's face in any one them :S

GrievousOdyssey
10th Dec 2009, 19:42
Nice to hear that the game looks good (though i would still prefer to see them myself) ...

As for Kane's face ...
Maybe his face is so awesome you have to buy the game to see it ! ...

ohitspatty
11th Dec 2009, 02:48
Any scans? Anyone?

Son of Nerlin
11th Dec 2009, 08:30
Iv'e seen his face on the cover, maybe one picture has him, can't remember much. Scar is still there, looks reakky tierd and of ocurse the beard.

Vulture
11th Dec 2009, 16:29
Any scans? Anyone?

i can take a few pics with my iphone.. u cant read the whole text but at least u can see the pictures..
if it's okay for the mods though?

GrievousOdyssey
11th Dec 2009, 16:53
I remember Acid Burn saying somewhere that scanning the articles would be "ILLEGAL" ...

So ... yeah ...

TheMoD
11th Dec 2009, 16:54
i can take a few pics with my iphone.. u cant read the whole text but at least u can see the pictures..
if it's okay for the mods though?

Oh my god just do it pleasE!!! ^^
It's just really unfair for everyone who doesn't live in the uk, how should I get my hands on that magazine?

Acid_Burn
11th Dec 2009, 16:57
Ok, ok, you can show the pictures. :)

TheMoD
11th Dec 2009, 17:00
Ok, ok, you can show the pictures. :)

Oh my GOD this is so awesome! :lmao:
thanks :)

JD_Method
11th Dec 2009, 18:26
Ok, ok, you can show the pictures. :)

There were some pics of Kane and Lynch 2 in the latest Official Xbox Magazine (UK). Could I post pics too?

TheMoD
11th Dec 2009, 20:12
There were some pics of Kane and Lynch 2 in the latest Official Xbox Magazine (UK). Could I post pics too?

*puts on moderator-hat* Of course you can!!

GrievousOdyssey
11th Dec 2009, 22:15
And i thought i was a terrible comedian ...

Acid_Burn
11th Dec 2009, 22:41
And i thought i was a terrible comedian ...

What's your problem? If you have something to say me - welcome to PM.


There were some pics of Kane and Lynch 2 in the latest Official Xbox Magazine (UK). Could I post pics too?
You can post pics. But not the story, plz.

Vulture
11th Dec 2009, 23:00
iphone cam seriously sucks but i tried my best :D

btw i have to edit this; there are total of 8 pics in the mag but in none of them kane's face is viewable :@

http://i48.tinypic.com/2d7zmfm.jpg

http://i46.tinypic.com/2upqy5z.jpg

TheMoD
11th Dec 2009, 23:41
Awesome thanks alot Vulture!! :)

JD_Method
12th Dec 2009, 00:14
Alright, I'll post pics later. Hopefully in higher quality than the above. :p

Unpaid Intern
12th Dec 2009, 02:23
Well look at that: user-generated content :)

GrievousOdyssey
12th Dec 2009, 08:52
What's your problem? If you have something to say me - welcome to PM.

Seems to me You're the one who has got a problem with me ...
I wasn't even speaking to you in the first place ...
And no , i don't like brawling in some dark parking lot , so put your shirt back on ... :)


Well look at that: user-generated content :)

Hehe , nice ...

Some of the screens reminds me Manhunt 2 alot ...
I was probably the only one who liked that game , so ... this is a very good sign ... :thumb:

JD_Method
12th Dec 2009, 13:26
Alright, I took some pics. They're a bit blurry though, cause I can't use this bloody camera. :lol:

http://i92.photobucket.com/albums/l15/JD_Method/1.jpg

http://i92.photobucket.com/albums/l15/JD_Method/2.jpg

http://i92.photobucket.com/albums/l15/JD_Method/3.jpg

http://i92.photobucket.com/albums/l15/JD_Method/4.jpg

http://i92.photobucket.com/albums/l15/JD_Method/5.jpg

http://i92.photobucket.com/albums/l15/JD_Method/6.jpg

http://i92.photobucket.com/albums/l15/JD_Method/7.jpg

http://i92.photobucket.com/albums/l15/JD_Method/8.jpg

http://i92.photobucket.com/albums/l15/JD_Method/9.jpg

TheMoD
12th Dec 2009, 14:14
Alright, I took some pics. They're a bit blurry though, cause I can't use this bloody camera. :lol:


Those pics are great! You can even see Kane on some of them, thanks alot!!
And Lynch looks really angry on the 4th pic haha

Mercenary of The7
12th Dec 2009, 14:33
I have actually restored some faith in the game now. Kane doesn't look that bad and he's still suited-up. I just hope their personalities are in tact.

GrievousOdyssey
12th Dec 2009, 15:00
" Lynch couldn't stand Kane's cigarette smoke " haha ... hey ... wait a second ...

Kane's still got his suit , and a new tie ...
So this begs the question : why is Lynch still dressed in a overall outfit ? ...
And is that a Spas shotgun ? Shame on you , Lynch ...

The environment looks fairly well detailed , very impressive lightning once again ...

All we have to do now is to wait for some gameplay footage ...

dark_angel_7
12th Dec 2009, 17:37
I wont judge yet....

I'd rather see the official HQ screen shots in all their glory straight from Square Enix rather than forming an opinion on these low-quality camera shots. But thanks to the posters for taking the time to show us. ;)

JD_Method
12th Dec 2009, 18:23
I wont judge yet....

I'd rather see the official HQ screen shots in all their glory straight from Square Enix rather than forming an opinion on these low-quality camera shots. But thanks to the posters for taking the time to show us. ;)

It's actually a really good camera I used, I just don't know how to use it. :lol:

ohitspatty
12th Dec 2009, 19:19
Those are good enough for me. I really appreciate :) Lynch looks bad ass!

truth serum
13th Dec 2009, 00:45
They're obviously trying to make Lynch look like Waingro from Heat.

I like the original models better though.

One of Seven
13th Dec 2009, 05:10
No, no, they're going with a Nicholas Cage Con-Air look.

Kent-45
14th Dec 2009, 04:26
Sorry for the pointless thread, but I just wanted to let you guys know that I snagged a copy of the Playstation Magazine off Ebay with the Kane & Lynch 2 article... I will be providing my deep and detailed analysis of everything I find as well as my thoughts.

It's currently in the mail from the United Kingdom so give me a few days.

Mercenary of The7
14th Dec 2009, 04:45
Sorry for the pointless thread, but I just wanted to let you guys know that I snagged a copy of the Playstation Magazine off Ebay with the Kane & Lynch 2 article... I will be providing my deep and detailed analysis of everything I find as well as my thoughts.

It's currently in the mail from the United Kingdom so give me a few days.

I don't have a few days, man! I need 'me fix now!

Kent-45
14th Dec 2009, 06:14
Easy there amigo. It's coming.

ohitspatty
14th Dec 2009, 10:49
Well, I follow IO on Twitter and according to them a trailer should drop by later this week! Excited much? I know I am :D

JaqTaar
14th Dec 2009, 12:00
It's mostly the same set of images, but this time scanned (from German magazine PC Action). I hope it's ok to leave the captions?!
Photobucket kept resizing (ie downsizing) the pictures, so I put them up as thumbnails instead.

A summary of the article will follow later, just one thing that I haven't seen mentioned yet:
Lynch has a Chinese girlfriend and not getting her involved in the mess he got himself in seems to be (part of) his motivation through the story.

http://img195.imagevenue.com/loc924/th_91555_Clipboard01_122_924lo.jpg (http://img195.imagevenue.com/img.php?image=91555_Clipboard01_122_924lo.jpg) http://img140.imagevenue.com/loc372/th_91581_Clipboard02_122_372lo.jpg (http://img140.imagevenue.com/img.php?image=91581_Clipboard02_122_372lo.jpg) http://img13.imagevenue.com/loc541/th_91784_Clipboard03_122_541lo.jpg (http://img13.imagevenue.com/img.php?image=91784_Clipboard03_122_541lo.jpg) http://img145.imagevenue.com/loc18/th_91805_Clipboard04_122_18lo.jpg (http://img145.imagevenue.com/img.php?image=91805_Clipboard04_122_18lo.jpg) http://img22.imagevenue.com/loc193/th_91830_Clipboard05_122_193lo.jpg (http://img22.imagevenue.com/img.php?image=91830_Clipboard05_122_193lo.jpg) http://img217.imagevenue.com/loc1169/th_91842_Clipboard06_122_1169lo.jpg (http://img217.imagevenue.com/img.php?image=91842_Clipboard06_122_1169lo.jpg) http://img23.imagevenue.com/loc11/th_91901_Clipboard07_122_11lo.jpg (http://img23.imagevenue.com/img.php?image=91901_Clipboard07_122_11lo.jpg) http://img225.imagevenue.com/loc903/th_91912_Clipboard08_122_903lo.jpg (http://img225.imagevenue.com/img.php?image=91912_Clipboard08_122_903lo.jpg)

TheMoD
14th Dec 2009, 15:48
Those scans are great!! Thank you so much!


Well, I follow IO on Twitter and according to them a trailer should drop by later this week! Excited much? I know I am :D

Yesss they posted it on Facebook as well!! Can't wait!!

GrievousOdyssey
14th Dec 2009, 16:58
So there IS a girl ...
Told you not to underestimate the power of the 'woman' ...

Though i was expecting Lara and not Mei Ling ...

dark_angel_7
14th Dec 2009, 17:38
Lara Croft & Lynch? I still find that an odd couple. :p

Anyway thanks for the new-ish scans. ;) The girl-friend aspect of the story sounds interesting. Does anyone else think K&L could use a good female (either with or against the duo) as part of the story? :)

GrievousOdyssey
14th Dec 2009, 17:48
The 'female' symbolises the past , un-violent life Lynch and Kane had , loved , and ultimately lost forever ... more like the things they can not obtain anymore rather than a gun wielding chick ally (so yeah , this pretty much throws Lara out of the picture ... though i still think she has a chance with the English lord of the manor :D )...

Female antagonist on the other hand ...
Hmmm ...
Kiki & Lana : Crazy Women ...

NO ...

dark_angel_7
14th Dec 2009, 17:51
I was more thinking along the lines that maybe there was some CIA/FBI/another acronymed "secret" service thing where an woman agent worked and was given the task of tracking and brining in our two mercenaries. I'm no good with the stories but IMHO I think it has a chance of working.

GrievousOdyssey
14th Dec 2009, 18:18
Oh yeah in that case it isn't such a bad idea ...

Only that i hoped IO would keep this concept for Hitman ...
(at one side you'll have dear Diana who is trying to find where her favorite bald clone has gone to , and the other hand there's this new red haired secret service agent who is assigned to track down our very own bald killer , only that she finds herself getting attracted to 47's killing styles , and meanwhile in the midst of all this nonsense , Agent 47 himself is beginning to develop feelings for other human beings , particularly the female ones ... This leads to a massive three way battle and a near imminent Cat Fight , GENIUS ... or it can be a triangle love story , it's still a marvellous concept) ...

JaqTaar
14th Dec 2009, 19:06
Here're the few facts the PC Action article states, the "documentary" graphics style put aside.

Story
After the events of part 1, Kane and Lynch split up and try to keep a low profile. Lynch ends up in Shanghai and sort of settles down. He has a Chinese girlfriend, Xiu, and works for a small-time local criminal called Glazer.

In a weapons deal Glazer bites off more than he can chew and he and Lynch are hunted by the Chinese underworld. Lynch calls Kane for help and the games follows the pair over two days and nights.

Gameplay
The devs haven't revealed any specific features, except for "Down not dead", which means instead of being killed outright, you're injured, but can still shoot and crawl. Already known from other games in similar form though.

Although Lynch's condition will be an issue at some points there will be no nightmare levels/sequences.

Various
They want to make the game even more hard-edged.
Karsten Lund, game director: "It's bad for Shanghai that those two show up there, but it's even worse for Kane and Lynch." :D

Kent-45
14th Dec 2009, 19:09
Here's a summary of the PC Action preview. I haven't read any other previews yet, so I don't know what's known already. I'll just write down the few facts the article states.

Story
After the events of part 1, Kane and Lynch split up and try to keep a low profile. Lynch ends up in Shanghai and sort of settles down. He has a Chinese girlfriend, Xiu, and works for a small-time local criminal called Glazer.

In a weapons deal Glazer bites off more than he can chew and he and Lynch are hunted by the Chinese underworld. Lynch calls Kane for help and the games follows the pair over two days and nights.

Gameplay
The devs haven't revealed any specific features, except for "Down not dead", which means instead of being killed outright, you're injured, but can still shoot and crawl. Already known from other games in similar form though.

Although Lynch's condition will be an issue at some points there will be no nightmare levels.

Various
They want to make the game even more hard-edged.
Karsten Lund, game director: "It's bad for Shanghai that the pair shows up there, but it's even worse for Kane and Lynch."

very nice find! I like it.

why do I get the feeling this "Glazer" is going to get some of Kane's push-dagger treatment by the end of the game? Why do I have this feeling?

GoldenJoel16
14th Dec 2009, 19:29
I'm kind of curious why Kane would be so eager to help Lynch. Do you guys think its because Kane feels he owes Lynch something, despite the events in DM getting completely FURKED up?

Vulture
14th Dec 2009, 20:17
with the latest screens from the german mac, i can honestly sy that the game looks amazing.
i'll relief if IO will say that we'll be able to play as kane at offline sp (1 player)

Kent-45
14th Dec 2009, 20:24
I'm kind of curious why Kane would be so eager to help Lynch. Do you guys think its because Kane feels he owes Lynch something, despite the events in DM getting completely FURKED up?

After all they've been through, I think Kane *might* have some motivation to help Lynch out of a bind, if he really needed it. There's gotta be something in it for Kane though, whether that be revenge, or money... Kane's motivations aren't so noble that he would help Lynch without some sort of reciprocity.

I think it'll make more sense soon once we get some more information.

One of Seven
14th Dec 2009, 22:14
"Lynch calls Kane for help" That made me smile like Eli Roth from Inglorious Basterds. Haha, Lynch just called in the badass. Who know's why he's helping him, Kane might just be trying to find death at this point.

Kent-45
14th Dec 2009, 22:17
You'd think that would be the case. You'd think that with Kane's wife and daughter dead that he wouldn't have anything left to live for.

My theory is that Kane, just like Lynch, is trying to find some sort of peaceful place to live out the rest of his days. Kane though would have the good sense to keep a low profile and not do dealings with arms dealers.

but seriously... if Lynch was in a bind and needed help, who else is he gonna call? He may not like Kane, but at least he can count on him to get the job done.

GrievousOdyssey
14th Dec 2009, 22:17
What , you want even More information ? ...
I think that's already enough before spoiling the whole story ...

We know now it'll take place during 'only' two days and night ...
Compare that to the three to four months in Dead Men ...

One of Seven
14th Dec 2009, 22:23
And Kane probably loses the jacket further in the game.

Kent-45
14th Dec 2009, 22:32
Look at the cop's stance in this picture... his arms are almost in a defensive position, like he's about to raise them.
http://img217.imagevenue.com/img.php?image=91842_Clipboard06_122_1169lo.jpg

Does this mean that there will be some sort of game mechanic in which enemies will surrender peacefully (AKA putting the hands up, etc)

There was a similar mechanic like this in the Eidos game "Reservoir Dogs" ... so perhaps there is a connection here?

In this picture:
http://img22.imagevenue.com/img.php?image=91830_Clipboard05_122_193lo.jpg

I'm no gun expert but it looks like he's holding that submachine gun incorrectly... I don't believe it's safe to hold a submachine gun by the supressor...

One of my old friends, who is also german, translated this for me :)
http://img23.imagevenue.com/img.php?image=91901_Clipboard07_122_11lo.jpg

In The Streets of Shanghai
On location we could check out a level:

1. In the restaurant
In a cool-staged scene, Kane and Lynch sit in a diner eating noodles, when suddenly hell breaks out.

2. Out!
Wild cursing, Kane and Lynch grab their weapens and face the majority of enemies.

3. Hurry
During the shooting, the restaurant turns into a junkyard. Moving on through the back door.

4. No attention!
Inconspiciously the two men move through the streets until a polic car stops by with squeaking tires. The people are in panic.

5. Get the woman!
On their escape Lynch curses the whole time he wants to warn Xiu. They both decide to move on over a construction ruin.

6. In the middle of chaos
In the middle of the dusty landscape, the two get attacked again, this time by gangsters. This is where the presentation ends, we would have liked to see more!

and in the picture:
http://img217.imagevenue.com/img.php?image=91842_Clipboard06_122_1169lo.jpg

The caption is something about Lynch making a joke about the legality of his parking job or something of the scooter in the background. The joke is that the police officer is trying to arrest him for some scooter violation.

Falkenwut
15th Dec 2009, 01:27
Hey guys, I'm sorry for my lengthy delay.. I was busy sabotaging the Nazi Regime single-handedly whilst the other hand was holding a bottle of scotch (i.e. Playing The Saboteur)...
Anyways back to the point: I'M LOVIN THIS! The pics look great! can't wait to get the game next year!!! Hope we'll get even more info!

Btw thanks for the translations Kent!

One of Seven
15th Dec 2009, 02:10
Yeah it's good info, and Saboteur's badass huh? I'd be playing it right now, but I had to send in my 360 for repair.......... I wonder if that's why Lynch looks furious in the one pic, you know with those gangsters possibly going after his woman and all.

S.T.A.L.K.E.R
15th Dec 2009, 12:09
that would be awesome to have some sort of hostage system in this game instead of just going around to each person and knifing them! I thought that Reservoir Dogs handled that pretty nicely(but I think im the only person who liked that game).

btw is that a FAMAS that Kane is holding in one of the pictures?

Kent-45
15th Dec 2009, 14:18
I'm curious about that too... looks a bit short for a FAMAS though...

JaqTaar
15th Dec 2009, 16:48
Look at the cop's stance in this picture... his arms are almost in a defensive position, like he's about to raise them.
The article says that Lynch shoots a cop that had already surrendered, but I'm not sure whether the devs played it that way or the writers from the mag or if it was a cutscene.



The caption is something about the legality of his parking job or something of the scooter in the background. The joke is that the police officer is trying to arrest him for some scooter violation.
That's just this particular magazine's writing style. They add such captions by themselves, which often have nothing to do with the actual game content.

GrievousOdyssey
15th Dec 2009, 18:15
HOLY :eek: ! ...
Another section taking place in a construction site !! ...
MARVELOUS ...

Arsh
16th Dec 2009, 01:32
Aw... I wish they'd put a nightmare sequence in... that'd be cool. Similar to a Max Payne nightmare sequence (just not as bloody frustrating as an MP sequence)

Kent-45
28th Dec 2009, 23:30
using my extensive financial means (AKA ebay) I was able to get ahold of a copy of the UK playstation magazine, with the entire article.

things I picked out of the article:

1. The article says that KL2's influences are: the movie 16 Blocks w/ Bruce Willis, and Collateral (specifically the alleyway shootout scene this time around: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YAdibdxZ9zg ) and Uncharted 2:Among Thieves - Reading the article, they reference Uncharted 2 as an influence multiple times. It's clear that someone at IOInteractive has a big boner for Uncharted 2, and even goes to say that they regard the game as "they're (KL2's) competition"

2. After he was done babysitting Kane, the article says that Lynch goes to Shanghai for whatever reason, and is working as a "heavy" or enforcer for a quote "group of failed European criminals" - Lynch's boss, Glazer, is described as a british guy.

3. The article says in so many words that they did away with the squad mechanics of the first game because Kane & Lynch suffered from a sort of identity crisis - it didn't know whether it was an urban warfare/crime game or a military tactical shooter. They decided to pick a side. The implication is that we will probably not see anymore military themed Cuba-style levels in the sequel. - The article goes on to say that Kane & Lynch is focusing on run-and-gun shooting, and intense firefights... whereas the first game was about squad tactics and such. It sounds like there will be an air of unprofessionalism about the game, since Lynch is leading the way now instead of Kane, who is described as "military trained"

4. Glazer, this british criminal who is Lynch's "boss" in Shangai, is described as the leader of a group of criminals operating in Shanghai because "they couldn't hack it in Europe" - The article seems to imply that Glazer and his crew are a bunch of **** ups.

5. The deal that Lynch was working on with Glazer involves a "gun shipment to Africa" that goes horribly horrible wrong. If there is a Cuba style level in this game, it'll be in Africa, I'm guessing... though it's all very unlikely. I predict all urban environments this time around. Apparently things go VERY wrong, and Lynch calls Kane for help because he's in over his head. Shangai SWAT, and "every criminal group in the underworld" somehow want these two's head on a platter after Kane shows up.

6. Gameplay is described as "rushed and frantic" - "[i]It's improvised and unstaged. it's about kicking in doors, crashing into cars, being thrown to the ground. Trying to find out where you're going, reading the scene fast and reacting."

7. The article makes reference to a variety of different "camera effects" that are used heavily in the game. The distorted pixels, redness, cam shakes, and such are being made with the players in mind though. IOInteractive says that they are making the game so that players have a choice (in camera effects I assume) and that they are not going to make anything that "annoys players" - They also say that while the camera effects have to be awesome and cool, the shooting mechanics are going to be on-target and accurate. That is a priority for them apparently.

Most of the screenshots aren't very useful in the article. You see lots of shots of Lynch with a variety of shotguns, but nothing you haven't seen before.

Unpaid Intern
29th Dec 2009, 00:15
Cool. Thx man...

TheMoD
29th Dec 2009, 02:47
Wow alot of stuff here I had no idea about, like the uncharted 2 thing, I mean I loved the game but I was still surprised to read that it's an influence for k&l2. Thanks alot!

GrievousOdyssey
29th Dec 2009, 02:56
Just curious , did you also plastered the article all over your house as a new wallpaper ? :D ...

Anywya , time for me to get angry ...
(well someone has to , sooner or later , might as well be Me) ...

I ... 16 Blocks wasn't a bad movie , far from it , so no worries here ...
Collateral ? sure why not ...
Among Thieves OH MY GOD ...
Listen , this is the one of the most overrated games of the year , it's nothing but 'scripted action' (we're talking about the Gameplay here not of its technical quality) ... sure there were setpieces that looks awesome , but frankly , there isn't a real difference between looking at someone's playthrough on youtube and playing it by yourself , it's the same thing ...
Even the Call of Duties aren't so scripted in comparison ...
I mean look , Among Thieves is like this : you start from point A and you have to shoot your way to point B and so on ...
Dead Men on the other hand : you start from point A and you have to shoot your way to point B , BUT , you had different ways of approaching from point A to point B ... that's what differs it from the 'scripted action' of Among Thieves ...

I doubt i was clear enough , but let's move on for now ...


II ... " After he was done babysitting Kane " ...
PFTHAHAHAHHAHAHAHHAHAHAHHAHAHA ...
Anywya ...
Glazer a british guy ? well i'll be damned i honestly thought he was Anthony Wong , too bad ... hope his voice actor doesn't put a 'heavy' accent in it ...

III ... Bye Bye rag tags ...
Bye Bye jungle levels ...
Nothing that we can complain about , isn't it ? ...

IV ... I hope the developers has Really learned to spill as less information on the storyline as they can this time around ...
Just saying ...

V ... Africa ...
Reminds me of the fake trophy i gave , "Far Cry" , which involves waving Kane goodbye at the airport as he goes to Africa ...
So ... there's three ways this can turn out ...
One , Africa is just a place mentioned in the storyline , Lynch and Kane won't go there in Dog Days ...
Two , one of the game's act will take place there (Kojima style , haha , you thought Shanghai was the only location in the game ? Next Stop , North Pole !) ...
Three (and by god i really hope they won't do this) , hint at a third game with a cliffhanger ending ...
I'll give this game a Six if there's a cliffhanger ending ...
I mean it ...

VI ... When they say "improvised and unstaged" are they talking about sudden changes in the objectives (for example you start from A and you have to go to B , but something shows up and you have to move to C , then D and finally B) , or are they talking about 'random' turn of events (meaning in every playthrough there's something random that happens) ? ...
Because if it's just the former , then it ain't so different from Among Thieves , a scripted game ...

VII ... It's always a plus to be able to manipulate the camera , could be interesting ... could be ...
Dead on accuracy during shootouts however ... i'm not so keen on that ...
If now you're given a hundred percent guarantie that your machine gun will land a headshot when aiming at the head ... that actually makes you feel a lot less vulnerable than you're suppose to be ...
I mean i was expecting that this time around the 'blindfire' mechanic was going to have a purpose , but with dead on accuracy ... sigh ...

Unpaid Intern
29th Dec 2009, 17:50
I - Grievous, I very much agree about Uncharted. I think that this game is hugely overrated, even in the graphics department. I heard about how awesome it was from friends and was honestly really disappointed when I got my hands on it.

Hopefully, IO's inspiration is limited to the more general concepts like 'cinematic feel'. I don't see how much of an inspiration it could be anyway since it was released October and style-wise, it seems to have absolutely nothing to do with a gritty game like KL2.

III - I know that the jungle levels weren't the best but still, I have no problem with them theme-wise. If done properly, a jungle level (or any wilderness level for that matter) could be really cool. But hey, if they dropped it for Dog Days, that's perfectly fine with me. I'm very open minded on these things...

VII - I think that 'on-target and accurate' does not equal '100% accuracy'. But since one of the main complaints in Dead Men was inaccuracy, it was pretty expected that it would be improved.

GrievousOdyssey
29th Dec 2009, 18:45
I ... You actually bought the game ? hell , all i did was watch the trailers and a few gameplay footage , and it just ain't worth the price it's demanding (same for every game released in the last four months , anywya) ...

Very true about the inspiration , Dog Days has already been in production for more than two years , it's not possible they'll start from the drawing board again just because they liked Among Thieves ...

III ... Oh sure why not , it's just that the non-urban chapters are bit less 'exciting' ... don't if that was the right word , anywya ...

VII ... Well i just hope the improvement doesn't remove all the recoil ... that'll be rather unrealistic for a game that proclaims itself to bring realism ...

Bawabus
29th Dec 2009, 19:27
It's really disappointing, grievous, that you'd make the mistake of judging a game before actually playing it--the very thing many people did to Kane and Lynch. Uncharted gave you tons of situations that allowed you flexibility in how to approach them; I remember numerous times reloading sections to try going through the action from a different angle, stealthing all the way through, or doing a mix of both. There were those heavily scripted sections that led you down a single path, but those were so effective in CREATING A SENSE OF URGENCY that you didn't even notice.

Uncharted 2 was awesome; you're doing yourself a disservice by not playing it.

TheMoD
29th Dec 2009, 22:57
Among Thieves OH MY GOD ...
Listen , this is the one of the most overrated games of the year , it's nothing but 'scripted action' (we're talking about the Gameplay here not of its technical quality) ... sure there were setpieces that looks awesome , but frankly , there isn't a real difference between looking at someone's playthrough on youtube and playing it by yourself , it's the same thing ...
Even the Call of Duties aren't so scripted in comparison ...
I mean look , Among Thieves is like this : you start from point A and you have to shoot your way to point B and so on ...
Dead Men on the other hand : you start from point A and you have to shoot your way to point B , BUT , you had different ways of approaching from point A to point B ... that's what differs it from the 'scripted action' of Among Thieves ...

I know exactly what you mean and I agree. Most current gen games feel very scripted and that basically takes away alot of the fun. But Uncharted2 is not one of those games, the shooting was simply fun and every time you managed to kill all the enemies during a firefight and move on you felt like you actually accomplished something. No uncharted 2 is awesome. The best example for this 'modern' kind of gameplay where everything is scripted is MW2 I couldn't stand playing it, it was horribly boring, something was very wrong about its gameplay.
Edit: You haven't even played it? Well that explains your "opinion"...

GrievousOdyssey
30th Dec 2009, 00:00
My 'opinion' also told me that the crap load amount of negative reviews and bad comments ( from both the internet community and friends alike ) that Dead Men has accumulated isn't good enough to stop me from buying it ...
And well you know the rest ...

My point is that my 'opinion' rarely , if ever , deceived me ...
Never have i had a change of heart after playing a game that i had a bad feeling about it at first ...
The Latest example was Arkham Asylum , people said it was the best , i said it's a eight out of ten and not game of the year , i bought the game anywya because i'm a fan of Batman afterall ...
Ah yes , turns out i was wrong , my opinion deceived me ...

It wasn't a eight but a Seven out of ten ...

Anywya , i already had the intention of buying Among Thieves some time next year , but tell you what , if my 'opinion' of this game turns out to be wrong In the positive sense , i'll buy you two a drink , if not , well ...

We'll buy our drinks together ...

TheMoD
30th Dec 2009, 00:15
still you shouldn't be complaining about it that much if you haven't even played it

Bawabus
30th Dec 2009, 00:24
still you shouldn't be complaining about it that much if you haven't even played it

Exactly.

GrievousOdyssey
30th Dec 2009, 00:38
Maybe ,but i always complain about the games i'm absolutely sure that i will buy ...
Which explains why people'll notice why i never complain about the sheer absurdity of Call of duty : No Russian ,sorry ,Modern Warfare 2 (despite seeing practically the full campaign on the net ,i won't voice my 'opinion' openly because i know i haven't and i'll never get the One element required to criticize any piece of work = experienced it thyself) ...

Among Thieves is going to be in my game library ,i know it will be ,the bad demo of Dead Space and the supposedly 'easy' gameplay of Prince of Persia didn't stopped me from buying it ,and enjoyed them a lot too ...

I don't see any real fuss about it really , some of you already know i'll give the same criticism for Among Thieves after i'll play it ...
The only difference that changes is that I , Me , and myself only would have played the game ...
How does it really matter to you reading about the 'preview' of my soon to be identical opinion ?...

Bawabus
30th Dec 2009, 01:42
So what you're telling me is that you're going to go into this game with a preconceived notion about what's wrong with it? If you're looking for faults, you will find them--but that doesn't mean they're there. Just as the someone who has positive preconceptions about a game before going in won't find anything wrong with it unless there's something REALLY wrong with it--even then it's not for sure.

GrievousOdyssey
30th Dec 2009, 02:04
I never play a game with a 'preconceived notion' throughout my playthrough , even less if i intent on making a serious critique out of it ...

No what am i saying is that for the most time , if i write a list of cons about a game without playing it , then put this list in a box , a few months latter after i played the game and wrote a new list of cons about it and starts comparing the two lists , i'll see that my first instincts were rather dead on accurate despite not thinking once of my original 'opinion' after all these months ...

Dead Space , Prince of Persia and even Killzone 2 has proved that exceptions in the positive sense do happen , so i'll be glad if Among Thieves joins them as well , but i just doubt it ...

So no , to answer your question , i don't play a game all way through screaming , even before it starts , that it's crap , it's too silly for me ...

Edit : And if we're not suppose to have an 'opinion' , what in the world are people doing in forums ? ...

Bawabus
30th Dec 2009, 02:53
I have no problem with opinions, nor do I have problem with you--just so we're clear. The way you were talking about your opinions, and your almost dead on accuracy in pegging a game's faults before even having played it suggested to me that you were doing something that isn't really beneficial to your enjoyment or critique of whatever it is you happen to be playing.

But it don't matter none no more, so take it 'round back n' call it 'Yeller'.

GrievousOdyssey
30th Dec 2009, 03:01
Well now i find myself to be utterly lost ...

And hungry ...

YoungZer0
2nd Jan 2010, 03:05
Among Thieves OH MY GOD ...
Listen , this is the one of the most overrated games of the year , it's nothing but 'scripted action' (we're talking about the Gameplay here not of its technical quality) ... sure there were setpieces that looks awesome , but frankly , there isn't a real difference between looking at someone's playthrough on youtube and playing it by yourself , it's the same thing ...
Even the Call of Duties aren't so scripted in comparison ...
I mean look , Among Thieves is like this : you start from point A and you have to shoot your way to point B and so on ...
Dead Men on the other hand : you start from point A and you have to shoot your way to point B , BUT , you had different ways of approaching from point A to point B ... that's what differs it from the 'scripted action' of Among Thieves ... Who gives a **** if things were scripted? As long as it's great it's not a problem. Besides, Among Thieves had one thing that other games did not: The scripted scenes were interactive. Like the scene with the truck. There are so many different ways to get from point A to point B. And if you say overrated you also have to say Halo.

At first i didn't believe the hype. It really needs a lot to convince me. Avatar? Boring as ****. Call of Duty Modern Warfare 2? Most disappointing game of 2009. Michael Bay would be ******* embarrassed by it's dumb story. Bioshock? Boring. Gears of War 1? Couldn't even finish it because i was just bored to hell by it's non existing story.

But when i played Uncharted 2. Just the first level, i caught myself saying things like: "WOW, What the **** just happened?" "What the hell?" "Jesus ******* Christ that was awesome!". It been a long time since i did something like this. And the graphics? They are just breath taking. And i'm the last person that cares about graphics. I'm not even into this whole treasure hunt thing. I dislike Indiana Jones, but that game did so many things so damn right, that i just couldn't resist anymore.

Play it.

One of Seven
2nd Jan 2010, 04:09
Uncharted was cool, but I only beat it once, no real incentive for me to play again. It didn't have that sort of replay value gameplay wise. Eh I liked Modern Warfare 2 a lot, didn't like the first one though. bioshock sucked, beat it within a days time, and took it back two days later literally. I thought both gears were badass. it's fun being two muscle bound dudes who kick mutant ass. Halo's lame and is something that should have ended at 3 officially.

GrievousOdyssey
2nd Jan 2010, 06:18
IO's game have always been great because it never had to focus its gameplay on scripted action ... who cares if it's interactive or not , scripted action is still scripted action , it's a lack of 'free' interaction between the player and the in game scenery , scripted action dictates how the player should traverse each scene , leaving seemingly no place for the game character to 'breathe' in it , so far IO always managed to avoid doing that in their creations , and i hope they'll keep it that way ...

On the side notes : whoa , and i thought i hated Bioshock , but it wasn't That boring , was it ? ...
Half Life 2 on the other hand ...
*shivers at the horrible memories*

Kent-45
2nd Jan 2010, 06:43
When I saw Uncharted's animations and graphics on my friends LCD flat panel I was simply amazed. The script wasn't great, but even at it's worst it was better than Kane & Lynch's, and that's kinda sad. I think the problem with the story, that I had at least, is that all the characters are terribly cliche. Nathan is not very compelling, and his nemesis is equally uninspired. The whole presentation is very polished and well-done, but it's cookie cutter high-budget game making, and I guess that's why I'm on a Kane & Lynch forum...

UhUh
2nd Jan 2010, 09:49
IO's game have always been great because it never had to focus its gameplay on scripted action ... who cares if it's interactive or not , scripted action is still scripted action , it's a lack of 'free' interaction between the player and the in game scenery , scripted action dictates how the player should traverse each scene , leaving seemingly no place for the game character to 'breathe' in it , so far IO always managed to avoid doing that in their creations , and i hope they'll keep it that way ...

On the side notes : whoa , and i thought i hated Bioshock , but it wasn't That boring , was it ? ...
Half Life 2 on the other hand ...
*shivers at the horrible memories*


I think you obviously have a different definition of "scripted action" than I have, becouse K&L (hitman, and mini ninjas too) have tons of it.

The way you talk about it makes me think K&L is some kind of procedural action game, wich is not. All IO games are very linear, story driven and scripted (yes the same word you seem to despise so much); they have to be scripted, to give each player the same experience, to deliver the story.

So basically you think that Bioshock, Half Life2, Modern Warfare2 and Uncharted 2 are bad for the same reason that IO games are good.

Seems like you just dislike some games becouse they are popular, as if you by playing K&L discovered an hidden gem of gaming; it's not like IO games are unknown either so what's the point? and if K&L was recognised as one of the best titles, wouldn't it be just as good?

Being on the outside looking in with contempt, doesn't make you more knowledgeable about what you talk about, just more smug.

Forgive my rant, and speculation about you, but all the talk about being a minority and bashing other more successful titles, while failing to provide a good reason for it, is quite embarassing.

TheMoD
2nd Jan 2010, 14:31
On the side notes : whoa , and i thought i hated Bioshock , but it wasn't That boring , was it ? ...
Half Life 2 on the other hand ...
*shivers at the horrible memories*


Bioshock was boring as hell and Half Life 2 is an amazing shooter... (the orange box is basically the best value in the videogame market) that's just my opinion though...

Bawabus
2nd Jan 2010, 16:05
His reasoning was that the games he listed don't let the player interact with the AI in any meaningful way because those games are scripted so heavily. For Call of Duty, this is true (the enemies were never given an opportunity to actual do something other than be roadblocks for the player); for the others, no way--they were no more scripted than Kane and Lynch.

Speaking of K&L, the only interaction I ever had with the AI in any given conflict in Kane and Lynch was bull-dozing over them because of their stupidity. IOI did a good job of creating situations that gave room for the AI to be able to move about and keep you on your toes, but the enemies were too basic in their AI script to actual do anything halfway intelligent.

I just loved it when they stood still and waited for you to kill them.

GrievousOdyssey
2nd Jan 2010, 18:00
I think you obviously have a different definition of "scripted action" than I have,

I'm afraid that must be the case , not just with you but in fact with just about almost everyone , but i understand your point and it does makes me a embarrassment , and i Agree , nevertheless i still have a few words to say ... (which'll no doubt turn out to be a wall of text) ...

No i don't dislike games simply because they're popular ... it's more about how overrated they are , i lived through a age where it was rare ti see a game getting a nine out of ten , and if it did it must have been 'exceptional' beyond comparison ... Now it is obviously not the case , in fact if a game doesn't get a nine out of ten it's practically an embarrassment for the gaming community ...
Enter now the 'best game of the years' ...

Modern Warfare 2 , guilty of putting logic out of the window : civilian dies equals Instant Dramatic Effect (just like in real life !) , things blows up absolutely everywhere because that's what special forces Do , and a astronaut makes a appearance because he slept with the game's producer (or Bob from Activision , whichever you prefer) ...
Simply put , it Pretends that it is serious and dramatic while it is not , if it wasn't so pretentious about it and just said "we present you a bunch of thrill rides and we wouldn't even try to make your brain think" then i wouldn't have anything to rant about , but they didn't ... anywya ...

Among Thieves guilty of ... Whoops ! i said i was gonna rant about it After playing it ...

Half Life 2 , ah , while Modern Warfare 2 pretended that things were serious , Half Life 2 IS serious ... despite having a protagonnist that seriously lacks a motivation to lead a rebellion against a totalitarism alien regime ... No i'm not saying Freeman is a bad character because he can't speak , i'm saying that there never was a reason for a scientist to pick up shotguns and blast his ways through ventilations and annihilating entire alien species , and even less for Half Life 2's 'storyline' ...
Oh , and the gameplay ? ...
A piece of a cardboard box fell down on Gordon's head and instantly killed him ...
That's the best way for me to describe it , really ...
Add that to the complete lack of motivation to do all that is embarrassing for a game that is trying to evoke 'humanitarian' philosophy in your brains ...

And no , to be able to stare at Alyx all day long is not a good motivation ...

Bioshock ... yeah , chop off the third act which is nothing but a arcade shooter , THEN i might consider it as a game of the year ...

Arkham Asylum ...
I expected great things ...
sigh ...

The point is that when i see games being proclaimed as 'game of the year' i Expect Them to BE of excellent quality , and by quality i don't mean the graphics (both technical and artistical) , i mean how well the game communicates with the player , not necessarily how great the storyline is trying to make us feel , and not how immersive it is either , but how 'logical' the game's system works ...

Portal worked ... and it highly deserves the praises ...
The storyline was 'meh' really , but it nevertheless managed to make us feel that we're traversing that research center , and for a game that didn't gave you single textlined objective , it did make us wanting to traverse from point A to point B ...
Of course it is all scripted , Every game is scripted , but it's about the art , the magic of keeping an 'illusion' that the player Can Be In Control ... even though in the end we're doing what the developpers intended , while playing we get this sensation that we're not just that avatar running around , instead we think it really is US that is doing all that ...

Grand Theft Auto IV was a masterpiece of creating that illusion that you were the immigrant in that city , yet people complained that there wasn't any jet packs and i find it a bit depressing ...

Do i hate popular and high rated games ? no , i just dislike them easily if they simply don't meet my expectations when they get high praises all over the board ...
Killzone 2 was good , very good , deserved the nines out of ten , is it one of my favorite games No , but it did earned the recognition ...
Arkham Asylum was good , but just good , i'm sure Rocksteady can do better next time , but how are they going to outdo themselves if people never Really Criticize about it ? ...

Games like Grand Theft Auto IV , Portal , and perhaps even Fallout 3 have the right to be critically aclaimed games because it means that the developper couldn't outdone themselves (not counting the little negative feedback we might give them) ...

Arkham Asylum was good for Rocksteady's second game , but if you tell them what they did was one of the best of this year , they'll think that this is the best that they can do , and will repeat making this game for a long time ...
*gives a not-so-discreet look at Infinity Wards*

it's not like every developper are like Rockstar North , and even their Grand Theft Auto are getting old , but the masterpiece they did pushed the illusion even further , that was quite unexpected ...

What i'm fearing for IO Interactive is that when the day comes when they'll be a really highly respected developper , it'll be for a game that wasn't worth the praises ...
It's all about rightfully 'deserving' the respect and praises , we all want IO to be respected , but it has to be for the right game ... and somehow i think that game was already made , Blood Money , it was the best of the Hitman series and sold not even half of what Silent Assassin did , imagine if IO can't outdo themselves for Hitman V , i mean just imagine , that the next Hitman isn't as good as their last one , BUT it gets called as game of the year ...
Sounds ridiculous but with nowaday's mentality it can happen ...

And what about Dog Days and their desire to make it even better than Among Thieves , if they somehow view themselves as a competitor then it must mean both their games are 'similar' enough to make competition ...

Most of you would say it's a great thing and a testament to how gifted the boys and girls of IO Interactive are , i don't ...
Does Grand Theft Auto have a competitor ? ... A Real competitor ? ...

See , Rockstar's games didn't need a competiton to become great games , it's the same thing for IO , they don't need to compare to others in order to make masterpieces , do they ? ...

And what exactly does Among Thieves symbolizes ? Mainstream audience , and since when did IO made games for the Mainstream Audience ? ...
You don't compare your product to another belonging to the mainstream if yours don't resemble it ...
Was the gerstmanngate so bad that IO had a complete change of policy that they'll make their games For that audience ? that same audience that liked Among Thieves ? that same audience that calls Kane & Lynch "crap" ? ...

Yes i'm probably having a freak out , but i still think this is important ...

Bevacur
2nd Jan 2010, 19:21
I seem to have a thing for enjoying games that critics hate lol.

Haze for the PS3 was amazing, i really enjoyed it!

Too Human was alright i guess but the levels were basically copy and pasted, especially the level which was a Jungle made of a metal.

Blacksite was a enjoyable game i suggest people play to it, next on the list James Cameron Avatar! Oh and Mass Effect 2 :)

As long the game keeps me entertained im happy.

GrievousOdyssey
2nd Jan 2010, 20:09
Haze literally destroyed Guns of the Patriot in terms of story development , gameplay , graphics , sound effect and box art ... PLUS the solo campaign is longer , Fact ...

And Blacksite Area 51 was WAY Better than Half Life 2 , I'm not joking ...

But the 'entertainment' factor doesn't always equal quality , so this is a bit off topic ...

UhUh
2nd Jan 2010, 20:29
No i don't dislike games simply because they're popular ... it's more about how overrated they are , i lived through a age where it was rare ti see a game getting a nine out of ten , and if it did it must have been 'exceptional' beyond comparison ... Now it is obviously not the case , in fact if a game doesn't get a nine out of ten it's practically an embarrassment for the gaming community ...

This is quite true, but game journalism is been on the watchlist for quite sometime, it has even called out for his conflic of interest with the developers and distributors; but this is another problem.

I'm going to bypass the critics about the games you listed, I only played HL2 anyway, so I can't say much about them.




The point is...how 'logical' the game's system works.




but it nevertheless managed to make us feel that we're traversing that research center...it did make us wanting to traverse from point A to point B




Every game is scripted , but it's about the art , the magic of keeping an 'illusion' that the player Can Be In Control.

Ok so I got a list of quotes here that I agree with you.



Grand Theft Auto IV was a masterpiece of creating that illusion that you were the immigrant in that city , yet people complained that there wasn't any jet packs and i find it a bit depressing.

That is not MY complaint about it, GTA flaw is so big and obvious that I'm going to tell you about it later on :P



i'm sure Rocksteady can do better next time , but how are they going to outdo themselves if people never Really Criticize about it ?

This is true, but at the same time cut them some slack, they still have to make a product that have to sell and compete in the actual market, not our wanna-be-game-as-art world.



Games like Grand Theft Auto IV , Portal , and perhaps even Fallout 3 have the right to be critically aclaimed games because it means that the developper couldn't outdone themselves (not counting the little negative feedback we might give them)

While I agree with Portal, both GTA and Fallout have a common problem(aside form Fallout bugs/bad animation/other), but let's continue...




What i'm fearing for IO Interactive is that when the day comes when they'll be a really highly respected developper , it'll be for a game that wasn't worth the praises.

This was true for Tim Shafer too, but as it goes his last effort didn't get the praise he wanted, I believe that chasing fame for its own sake isn't worth it; people don't know what they want untill you show it to them, IO do what they do best, sometimes it goes well, other times it doesn't.



And what about Dog Days and their desire to make it even better than Among Thieves , if they somehow view themselves as a competitor then it must mean both their games are 'similar' enough to make competition.

The way I see it, they want to be competitive on the overall quality of the game, other than its content. Both are 3rd person action games, that's I guess the similarity they look foward too, but that's it. It could be just a publicity thing, they won't pull of an Uncharted2, but fighting against it may give them a good spotlight.



And what exactly does Among Thieves symbolizes ? Mainstream audience , and since when did IO made games for the Mainstream Audience ?

I'm pretty sure that IO would want the Mainstream money as much as any other audience(just look at mini ninjas), K&L too while may seem "edgy" in the videogame comunity, isn't anything new for the rest of the world.



Was the gerstmanngate so bad that IO had a complete change of policy that they'll make their games For that audience ? that same audience that liked Among Thieves ? that same audience that calls Kane & Lynch "crap"?

Of curse they do, they don't want to live in a niche market for IO fans only, they need to open up to everybody, this doesn't mean that they should or will do a sell out to mainstream desires.


Anyway, What was that problem I was talking about GTA and Fallout?
It's the same problem you were talking about that "keeping momentum and ****" for K&L; it's a common problem actually, but with open world games is even more evident: the game waits for the player.

As good as GTA writing is, my Nicko Bellic coudn't care less about his revange, he was too busy going around Liberty City, there were SO much else to do in the game that I can't see why I should go on with the story.
Same for Fallout, anybody tells you to forget about the main quest and just go around and look for everything else.

But what about that story? shouldn't it be the main drive of the game?

Farcry2 did it, the gameplay actually pushed you foward in the story, directly(the missions) and indirectly(you need more pills to survive); by the end you have few friends and enemies and the story, while it starts sloooow get going by the end, keeping you(me at least) intrested.

With GTA or Fallout, the more you play the more you gain, the game is actually trying to stop you from going on with the story.

Other games solved it another way, The Last Express, Dead Rising and Star Control 2, while different games have one common thing: they are in real time.

Last Express uses it to let you spy on the other characters, and understand whats going on in the story before it's too late.

Dead Rising uses it to give you anxiety, and forcing you to choose wich character to save.

Star Control 2 uses it to give you a feeling of impending doom.

Real time can be a pain in the ass, but it can also be a great thing; a game like K&L would benefit from it, the character are in a rush, there's no time to plan things out, just go with the flow: like for DeadRising, it should make you anxious and do mistakes!

Complaining about it is like complaining about Penumbra being scary.

Bawabus
2nd Jan 2010, 20:29
Grievous, you sir, are an excellent incoherent rambler. :)

GrievousOdyssey
2nd Jan 2010, 20:58
Well at least someone noticed ,been trying to make you guys realize that for the past week we've been on an off topic conversation about games and whatever while we're on a topic about global warming and ducks ,i mean what were we thinking ...

Seriously i don't even know how this all got started ...
Anywya ...

*reads UhUh's reply*
Actually the storyline of IV was very flawed ,it was all over the place ,there was a too big sense of freedom after you unlocked Algonquin ...
The illusion lies more in your relationship to the city itself than towards your character's storyline ,that's what i wanted to see about Episodes from Liberty City ,whether a 'shorter' storyline worked better or not...

For me Far Cry 2's brilliance is in creating in the player this feeling of Wanting to stay alive , not so much about the storyline ...
The 'pills' however felt forced to me ...

Whoa ,and i thought no one else played The Last Express ,cool ...
Wait ...
GENIUS !...
*runs off to create new topic*

Bawabus
2nd Jan 2010, 21:11
Ya'll wanna take bets on the epiphany that has struck our good friend gnrGrievous straight through the brain?

My money's on, "Make time in Kane and Lynch: Dog Days pass in real-time."

GrievousOdyssey
2nd Jan 2010, 21:15
I'll bet on "Dog Days , a Point and Click ACTION GAME" ! ...