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Gamemaster
12th Oct 2009, 19:11
Which villains do you think should or will be in the next Batman movie?

We can exclude Two Face because he died in DK.We can also probably exclude Poisson Ivy,penguin, and Mr Freez because Nolans movies are supposed to be as real as possible and those villains just wouldn't fit in it.

My choices would be Catwoman,Zsasz,Scareface,the Riddler,and mabey the Croc.The Croc would have to be redesigned so that hes a guy with an elephant man type disease who's also a cannibal.

Im not sure if Joker would be in it again since the guy who played him in DK is dead.If they do recast his role than mabey Harley will be in it this time around as well.

Oh and I know Scarface is a puppet but he did have a man holding him all the time.

Old_BenKenobi
12th Oct 2009, 19:16
Poison Ivy and Penguin could both be considered realistic, since in some incarnations Ivy is a powerless eco-terrorist with a knack for bio-chemistry, and in most incarnations Penguin is a somewhat odd looking man who's playing the Mafia card.

Gamemaster
12th Oct 2009, 19:18
Ivy would work.But your right she would have to be %100 human.With penguin theyd have to leave out his crazy umbrella.

Drazar
12th Oct 2009, 19:24
Nolan's movies are hyperrealistic. Anything can work aslong as theres an explanation. Clayface? Eh some DNA malfuction mumbo jumbo. Man-Bat? Genetic DNA altering mumbo jumbo. =P It's the same thing in Iron Man. They hyperrealisticly explain the armor, but its just not possible in our world. =P

So anyhow my dream villain would be Leonardo Dicaprio as Black Mask. :) Or Talia Al Ghul and Riddler being a internet terrorists (as he kinda would be if he was still a villain in comics).

Gamemaster
12th Oct 2009, 19:35
I can see the Riddler hacking into bank accounts and planting viruses everywhere.But how would he leave his riddles?In the form of E Mails?

I forgot about the black mask.He would be a good choice.

Old_BenKenobi
12th Oct 2009, 19:58
Nolan's movies are hyperrealistic. Anything can work aslong as theres an explanation. Clayface? Eh some DNA malfuction mumbo jumbo. Man-Bat? Genetic DNA altering mumbo jumbo. =P It's the same thing in Iron Man. They hyperrealisticly explain the armor, but its just not possible in our world. =P

So anyhow my dream villain would be Leonardo Dicaprio as Black Mask. :) Or Talia Al Ghul and Riddler being a internet terrorists (as he kinda would be if he was still a villain in comics).

Well technology is easier to make believable than crazy superpowers, since its pretty much a given in everyone's mind that it's only a matter of time that they'll get Iron Man level stuff. Illogical freaks like Freeze and Clayface, that's definitely unrealistic no matter how you spin it.

I think hyperrealism is the wrong term to describe the style of the Nolan movies. For one thing, hyperrealism by definition would make something more realistic, not less. However you want to call it, it's very different from Iron Man's style. Nolan's Batman films, as I would describe them in a nutshell, are realistic crime dramas that reinterpret comic book characters as real-life versions of themselves. So I guess it's hyperrealism compared to the comics. But to describe the movies that way, it would definitely be misleading IMO, as it would imply that everything is ultra-realistic.

Everything is justified however, at least in TDK. Even the reason for Joker's face-paint is explained outright in a particular bit of dialog I hate. Compare it to Iron Man, where the helmet has a scowl for no real reason, and he paints it half red because it looks cool.

Now that I think about it, Batman Begins was fairly close to Iron Man in terms of the meshing of comic-books and film.

royal flush
12th Oct 2009, 20:28
mr freeze can work in the nolan movies as long as he is not cold litterally.
he can be a scientist in the cryogenics feild who has tragicly lost his wife and blames all of gotham for his loss. his inner pain and suffering would cause him to no longer feel emotions leaving nothing but a "cold" shell of a man who wants gotham to feel his loss.

Prince Daka
12th Oct 2009, 21:09
i think Riddler will play a big role, probably as an insane cyber-terrorist who utilizes death traps when he needs information from anyone. maybe Riddler will kidnap Mr. Reese & get info on who Batman is from him. He can also spill the beans on Harvey Dent to the city, which could be bad for Gordon, he'd probably lose his job & crime would go up. i just hope they don't make that Mr. Reese guy Riddler just because his name sounds like Mysteries. that would be very stupid.

i also think Talia Al Ghul may also play a big role. If Ra's is dead she can be the new head of the Society of Shadows, & she can also manipulate Batman with her charm. She is a more believable female villain for the Nolan movies also, and a very cunning one at that. It would be fitting to have her in the next movie seeing as Ra's Al Ghul was a big deal in Batman Begins. & I know Ra's is supposed to be immortal, but including him in the movie too would take away from Talia. Plus, if Talia suspects Batman of killing her father that would make for a good movie.

there will also be the issue of who will be running the organized crime syndicate of Gotham since Maroni was killed. This could be an opportunity to introduce a villain like Black Mask, The Penguin, Ventriliquist+Scarface... or maybe a lesser known like Rupert Thorne.

maybe Zsasz could return for a scene (ala Scarecrow in TDK). Batman Begins did a bad job with Zsasz. We never find out if he was returned to the asylum or to jail, & seeing as the character is more popular now because of Arkham Asylum, it could be nice to see him.

Gamemaster
12th Oct 2009, 21:17
I was actually thinking the Riddler would be a guy who lures his victims into traps and if they dont solve his riddles in time they will die.The only problem with that plot is that theres a movie already like that.Its called Saw.

Drazar
12th Oct 2009, 21:22
I was actually thinking the Riddler would be a guy who lures his victims into traps and if they dont solve his riddles in time they will die.The only problem with that plot is that theres a movie already like that.Its called Saw.

Alot of people seem to think Riddler should be a saw-esque guy, but thats the thing. They don't know what the Riddler is about at all.

Prince Daka
12th Oct 2009, 21:24
I was actually thinking the Riddler would be a guy who lures his victims into traps and if they dont solve his riddles in time they will die.The only problem with that plot is that theres a movie already like that.Its called Saw.

Saw totally ripped off the Riddler MO *when it came to death traps* but made it voyeuristic torture porn. Riddler would do it with much more class. & he would give a fair chance because it's about the intellectual challenge more.. not the whole how bad do you want to live nonsense.

Gamemaster
12th Oct 2009, 21:29
Ive actually never even seen Saw.And I dont intend to.Looks to boring and cheesy.

made it voyeuristic torture porn.
Thats exactly why I dont want to see it.

Hes not a villian but I wonder if Robin will be in it?Mabey hell be one of those fake Batmans from TDK that Batman adopts.

Prince Daka
12th Oct 2009, 21:32
Ive actually never even seen Saw.And I dont intend to.Looks to boring and cheesy.

Thats exactly why I dont want to see it.

Hes not a villian but I wonder if Robin will be in it?Mabey hell be one of those fake Batmans from TDK that Batman adopts.

no Robin because Christian Bale would refuse to do the job

Gamemaster
12th Oct 2009, 21:34
Christian Bale likes to work alone?I guess that explains his outbreak on the Terminator set.

angleslam99
12th Oct 2009, 21:38
People who think the Riddler is just some sadistic killer really don't understand the character. He isn't a killer, nor a fighter, he's a narcissistic individual who constantly tries to outwit the Batman

Drazar
12th Oct 2009, 21:38
Christian Bale likes to work alone?I guess that explains his outbreak on the Terminator set.

Eh that was caused by a special effects guy ruining the scene twice even tho he was _asked_ to stop doing it.

Anyhow Christian Bale pretty much said he would tie himself in chains then do a movie with Robin. I don't know what he really means by it since he said his favorite batman comic (Dark Victory) happens to be Robin's origin story aswell and Robin one-shots Joker at the end of the comic. ^^;

Prince Daka
12th Oct 2009, 21:46
People who think the Riddler is just some sadistic killer really don't understand the character. He isn't a killer, nor a fighter, he's a narcissistic individual who constantly tries to outwit the Batman

i don't think it is that dude. blame The Dark Knight. they made Joker so evil that people assume that if Riddler were in a Nolan Batman movie he would be like Jigsaw. Just a big misunderstanding/misconception is all.

& while Riddler is not a sadistic killer or a fighter it still is very Riddler-like for him to use deathtraps which sometimes does kill someone, & for him to be villainous. & while i know he isn't a fighter, he has been known to use weapons. the real problem is that Riddler is not written enough as a big-shot villain anymore. he's been a PI for too long in the comics.

Riddling Artist
12th Oct 2009, 21:52
hmm... what the heck is up with the riddler ideas... i believe the riddle ri want to see the most is someone like the one we saw in the videogame... alwasy taunting batman about solving things. maybe he could be the comedic relief when batman figures something out "wow... took ya long enough" or something like that.

an di actually thought of a real life mr. freeze. hes pretty much a guy in a trench coat, whos extrememly pale, his eyes are always red (from crying?) and he either traps people in freezers (hard ot explain) or hell have some kind of hidden freeze gun that shoots nitrogen... my mr. freeze is a very dark character...

Prince Daka
12th Oct 2009, 21:57
hmm... what the heck is up with the riddler ideas... i believe the riddle ri want to see the most is someone like the one we saw in the videogame... alwasy taunting batman about solving things. maybe he could be the comedic relief when batman figures something out "wow... took ya long enough" or something like that.

an di actually thought of a real life mr. freeze. hes pretty much a guy in a trench coat, whos extrememly pale, his eyes are always red (from crying?) and he either traps people in freezers (hard ot explain) or hell have some kind of hidden freeze gun that shoots nitrogen... my mr. freeze is a very dark character...

so you can create ideas for a new mr. freeze but thats a no-no for riddler?

Gamemaster
12th Oct 2009, 22:24
What about having Batman face off against the Predator?Yes he was one of Batmans villains.I remember seeing a Batman vs. Predator comic once somewhere.I think the Aliens might have even been in it.But having a BvsP movie would be very unlikely.Too unrealistic.

Drazar
12th Oct 2009, 22:46
Predator is Dark Horse owned comic character and FOX owns the rights for Predator in movies. So thats a big no. =P

What we need is Neil Patrick Harris as the Music Meister! Bring on Batman 3: The Musical! :D

angleslam99
12th Oct 2009, 22:49
Cyber terrorist
Cyber terrorist
Cyber terrorist

That's the only way to do the Riddler in the next movie, because he isn't a big time villain. He never really was ever, he was just a nuisance to the Batman throughout the comics than an actual threat.

Gamemaster
12th Oct 2009, 22:56
Or theyll just make up a new villain.Mabey some Al Queda terrorist who wants to blow up Gotham with a nuke.

Drazar
12th Oct 2009, 22:59
Or theyll just make up a new villain.Mabey some Al Queda terrorist who wants to blow up Gotham with a nuke.

Yes the people will just love that idea.:rolleyes: It's not going to get any complaints or racist remarks at all, no. :rolleyes:

PS. No just no, thats a horrible idea. No offense to you or anything personally!

Prince Daka
12th Oct 2009, 23:01
Cyber terrorist
Cyber terrorist
Cyber terrorist

That's the only way to do the Riddler in the next movie, because he isn't a big time villain. He never really was ever, he was just a nuisance to the Batman throughout the comics than an actual threat.

i agree cyber terrorist but i dont agree he was never a big time villain. def more so in non comic mediums (like 1966 Batman - he was definitely in the top 3), but i have read comics where riddler was a huge pain in batmans belfry. ill give u some specific issues if u want i just have to dig through my collection. even the new reformed riddler doesnt get any love from batman. batman might even hate him more because he cant catch him if hes not doin robberies, etc. & nigma may possibly remember who batman is eventually - even tho batman is sort of dead or something for now.

Gamemaster
12th Oct 2009, 23:03
Um what do Terrorists have to do with racist remarks?I dont hear Clowns complaining about Joker being a terrorist.

Anyway back to the topic.Are there any other villains that im forgetting?

Drazar
12th Oct 2009, 23:04
Um what do Terrorists have to do with racist remarks?I dont hear Clowns complaining about Joker being a terrorist.

The fact you're suggesting Al-Quada terorists as villains for the next movie would be pretty much of a propaganda movie where the american hero defeats them. It's flat out tasteless and unneeded when you can pick up great comic villains instead of making something like "Holy Terror! Batman!"

Prince Daka
12th Oct 2009, 23:06
Or theyll just make up a new villain.Mabey some Al Queda terrorist who wants to blow up Gotham with a nuke.

Hahaha --- there is a reason why the villain "Prince Daka" (villain from the original batman serial from the early 40s) never caught on - it was around the time of WW2 & the Japanese were on the side of "the enemy" so they made a japanese criminal the main villain of the 1st batman serial. it was offensive to people, & having a villain be a alqaeda terrorist would just be wrong

btw - Batman vs Predator 1 & 2 were awesome gn's. predator def gives batman a pretty intimidating challenge

Gamemaster
12th Oct 2009, 23:09
For me Riddler would indeed be the ideal villain for the next movie.If they dont have Joker he would take the place as the evilly comedic villain.

Riddling Artist
13th Oct 2009, 00:44
so you can create ideas for a new mr. freeze but thats a no-no for riddler?
my point about riddler wasnt that you couldnt come up with new ideas. its never said or implied in my statement. EVER. i was just giving my opinion on the riddler i want ot see and saying whats up with all the riddler ideas about him torturing people. okay. now you can just go on and leave me be.

oh and please check your source. you drew a conclusion from nothing which imediately falsifies anythnig you say about my comment. and.... done.

(note: you just got served)

Prince Daka
13th Oct 2009, 01:59
my point about riddler wasnt that you couldnt come up with new ideas. its never said or implied in my statement. EVER. i was just giving my opinion on the riddler i want ot see and saying whats up with all the riddler ideas about him torturing people. okay. now you can just go on and leave me be.

oh and please check your source. you drew a conclusion from nothing which imediately falsifies anythnig you say about my comment. and.... done.

(note: you just got served)

ha, i don't feel like i've been served. this isn't a flame war, calm down. you didn't clarify what you meant at all & i'm not sure why you sounded upset about the ideas. only 1 person said anything about riddler torturing some1 & he only said it as an idea which i & someone else opposed politely, but you came off sounding hypocritical because you feel like you can pitch your mr. freeze concept but bash someone elses. that's all i meant. but seeing now you didn't mean to be rude, excuse me if you feel that i was trying to grill you. i just don't see why people throw fits if someone has an idea that is slightly uncharacteristic. penguin in tim burtons batman returns was completely different than comic penguin but people dug the darker version of penguin there. everyone always gets so shocked to hear people pitch an idea of a homicidal riddler. get real people had the sequel to batman returns been with tim burtons version of riddler he would have been a homicidal character. stop with the fits is all im saying!

(note: i'm above flame wars. we're all batman fans - but if you wanna duke it out i'll have to get a copy of uncharted 2)

Gamemaster
13th Oct 2009, 02:17
Flame wars are childish Batman would disapprove :(

Riddling Artist
13th Oct 2009, 04:03
ha, i don't feel like i've been served. this isn't a flame war, calm down. you didn't clarify what you meant at all & i'm not sure why you sounded upset about the ideas. only 1 person said anything about riddler torturing some1 & he only said it as an idea which i & someone else opposed politely, but you came off sounding hypocritical because you feel like you can pitch your mr. freeze concept but bash someone elses. that's all i meant. but seeing now you didn't mean to be rude, excuse me if you feel that i was trying to grill you. i just don't see why people throw fits if someone has an idea that is slightly uncharacteristic. penguin in tim burtons batman returns was completely different than comic penguin but people dug the darker version of penguin there. everyone always gets so shocked to hear people pitch an idea of a homicidal riddler. get real people had the sequel to batman returns been with tim burtons version of riddler he would have been a homicidal character. stop with the fits is all im saying!

(note: i'm above flame wars. we're all batman fans - but if you wanna duke it out i'll have to get a copy of uncharted 2)

im sorry if i wasnt clear. and i had no intention of starting a flame war. i dont think i was being hypocritical... and just to say this... again... i never once said in my original post that i bashed the ideas of everyone. i was just asking what was up with them. im open to many interpretations to be honest. so can we stop this business. i think we may be gettin off track here (yeah... that serving thing... that sorta sounds childish now) so hopefully we can continue to express our opinions on this thread, again... sorry if we got off track.

vicsage
13th Oct 2009, 06:50
Well technology is easier to make believable than crazy superpowers, since its pretty much a given in everyone's mind that it's only a matter of time that they'll get Iron Man level stuff. Illogical freaks like Freeze and Clayface, that's definitely unrealistic no matter how you spin it.

I think hyperrealism is the wrong term to describe the style of the Nolan movies. For one thing, hyperrealism by definition would make something more realistic, not less. However you want to call it, it's very different from Iron Man's style. Nolan's Batman films, as I would describe them in a nutshell, are realistic crime dramas that reinterpret comic book characters as real-life versions of themselves. So I guess it's hyperrealism compared to the comics. But to describe the movies that way, it would definitely be misleading IMO, as it would imply that everything is ultra-realistic.

Everything is justified however, at least in TDK. Even the reason for Joker's face-paint is explained outright in a particular bit of dialog I hate. Compare it to Iron Man, where the helmet has a scowl for no real reason, and he paints it half red because it looks cool.

Now that I think about it, Batman Begins was fairly close to Iron Man in terms of the meshing of comic-books and film.

I completely agree.

Besides, I don't think Mr. Freeze or Clayface are the kind of villains up Nolan's alley. As Kenobi points out, Nolan makes these Batman films as realistic crime dramas that reinterpret comic book characters as real-life versions of themselves. Freeze and Clayface don't fit the mold (pun intended). Though, I guess if Nolan really wanted to, he could stick with the original Clayface who was just an actor wearing a mask...but hey, why would he want another villain with the word "face" in his namesake after we just had "Two-Face" in TDK?

My prediction for the next villain? Someone in a costume without any special powers or mutant abilities. Penguin's already out, so I guess that leaves:

-Riddler (very likely)

-Catwoman (hey, a female enemy! Something new for Nolan's series! She wouldn't be the main villain, though)

-Talia (she comes looking for her father's killer...holy payback, Batman!)

-Mad Hatter (hopefully Nolan would make him a real threat and not some second-tier goof)

-Black Mask (but do we really need ANOTHER mob boss?)

-Dr. Hugo Strange (this one would be a really unique choice...)

-Deadshot (He obviously couldn't be the main villain...but he could work for whoever they are)

Old_BenKenobi
13th Oct 2009, 07:46
The big tragedy about it all is Freeze is a villain with such a rich story and concept that it would make an amazing movie in Nolan's hands, but he won't because there's no easy way to write him off as realistic.

Sir Legendhead
13th Oct 2009, 08:32
The fact you're suggesting Al-Quada terorists as villains for the next movie would be pretty much of a propaganda movie where the american hero defeats them. It's flat out tasteless and unneeded when you can pick up great comic villains instead of making something like "Holy Terror! Batman!"Is Frank Miller still working on that? I'd like to read it -- pfft, I'd be happy just to see it come out, because it would validate my "Miller is trolling us all" theory.

Old_BenKenobi
13th Oct 2009, 09:09
I think the concept behind Holy Terror, Batman! is interesting, because whenever I think of it I think of this:

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/c/c7/Captainamerica1.jpg

Onomatopoeia
13th Oct 2009, 09:13
I'd like the Ventriloquist and Black Mask to be the primary villains for a sequel.

Drazar
13th Oct 2009, 10:14
Is Frank Miller still working on that? I'd like to read it -- pfft, I'd be happy just to see it come out, because it would validate my "Miller is trolling us all" theory.

No. He said it became too much "non Batman" pretty much and canceled the idea.

Old_BenKenobi
13th Oct 2009, 11:14
He cancelled it? Last I read it was being made into a new project and Batman's presence diminished, but still coming out.

Drazar
13th Oct 2009, 12:44
He cancelled it? Last I read it was being made into a new project and Batman's presence diminished, but still coming out.

Yeah he's making the terrorist story but it doesn't have Batman in it at all.

Old_BenKenobi
13th Oct 2009, 13:10
Bummer. I was really looking forward to the craziness.

Gamemaster
13th Oct 2009, 17:10
If Batmans not in the terrorist story will it still take place in Gotham?

If the next movie were to have terrorists as the villains it would seem like a rip off of both Iron Man and 24.But then again Iron Man was a rip off of Batman.Besides I dont think we need another super hero movie with terrorists anyway.

By the way.

"Holy Terror! Batman!"
Best line ever!

I got this idea from vicsage suggesting the mad hatter.What about the Mad Hatter and Tweedledum and Tweedledee?It would be Alice in wonder land with psychos!

lukeob94
14th Oct 2009, 08:12
eh i ahte the riddler =]

poison ivy all the way
just like make her a normal skinned red head working in gotham as a toxicologist/biochemist/botanist
but liek all these buildings are blowing up becuase theyare like industrial hq's harming the planet and like she leaves a branch of poison ivy as a calling card
mean while she can be seducing people at like WE and othe rplaces and then poisoning them
eevntually trying to get to bruce wayne becuase WE like brought out rainforest in costa rica
she can have fight scenes with batman when he proally catches her snooping around and stuff
she can use like poison i guess
;like in a gas or powder dervied from plants and maybe that cross bow thing
basically yeah ivy cuz she's a good character
and christina hendricks should paly her =]