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PerryJ
11th Oct 2009, 15:39
This is a question for the developers, first time on the forums so dunno if they hang around here, but anywhoo:

Being a skydiver I have a few thoughts about the realism of the skydiving part. First of all: Have you used correct calculations for free fall and body position in free fall? The correct formula for calculating wind resistance should be Fd = -0,5p(v^2)ACd (see physics textbook or wiki for explanation and derivation). And do you use vectors to calculate movement along the x and y plane?

And I know that the parachute isn't realistic in its movements or the fact that you have an infinite number of chutes , and I'm fine with that, but could you please add a pilot chute to the animations? The parachute doesn't just pop out in reality (see wiki or skydiving textbook for explanation on how a pilot chute works).

Edit: Another question, on the PC, what's the maximum and minimum pitch in free fall? How will you be able to control pitch yaw and roll? Will you be able to use the mouse or will we be contricted to using the keyboard with just two or three different preset body positions?

Otherwise it looks like a great game with lots of promise, please don't screw this up.

awesome_man
11th Oct 2009, 16:25
fahreal

jubjub1
11th Oct 2009, 16:37
This is a question for the developers, first time on the forums so dunno if they hang around here, but anywhoo:

Being a skydiver I have a few thoughts about the realism of the skydiving part. First of all: Have you used correct calculations for free fall and body position in free fall? The correct formula for calculating wind resistance should be Fd = -0,5p(v^2)ACd (see physics textbook or wiki for explanation and derivation). And do you use vectors to calculate movement along the x and y plane?

And I know that the parachute isn't realistic in its movements or the fact that you have an infinite number of chutes , and I'm fine with that, but could you please add a pilot chute to the animations? The parachute doesn't just pop out in reality (see wiki or skydiving textbook for explanation on how a pilot chute works).

Edit: Another question, on the PC, what's the maximum and minimum pitch in free fall? How will you be able to control pitch yaw and roll? Will you be able to use the mouse or will we be contricted to using the keyboard with just 2 or three different preset pitches?

Otherwise it looks like a great game with lots of promise, please don't screw this up.

i dont understand any of the things ure saying plus its just a game. if you want to be all realistic and stuff just dont get this game. im fine with the parachute;)

Enzoforce
11th Oct 2009, 17:30
Im fine at what it is mate.

PerryJ
11th Oct 2009, 18:05
Hey, I'm not complaining over the realism, I'm simply inquiring on how the developers have constructed the free falling aspect of the game, whether or not they've calculated the movement in free fall via proper calculations or if they've used a simplified formula such as:



//A very ruff draft over how a simple velocity calculation could be done
g = 9,82
currentVelocity = V0 + g*t
if(currentVelocity < maxV){ //MaxV stands for max velocity, somewhere around 55m/s
a = 9,82
}
else{
a = 0
}
finalVelocity = V0 + a*t

Remember people, this was a question directed at the developers, not the gamers, if you don't understand what I'm talking about, then simply leave it alone.

polimerjones
11th Oct 2009, 21:16
well i have drivin a car before. i know that when its cold the door seems to get stuck. the formula looks like this (car door+bloody cold=door stuck) . i know this is kind a hard formula to understand but im a pro at driving. So developers you might want to take a look at this. maybe on wiki. oh yeah if any one wants the formula in an expanded version just ask.

PerryJ
11th Oct 2009, 21:34
Well in this case that formula isn't very relevant now is it? Sure the game involves both car doors and sub zero climate, but the game doesn't and probably shouldn't contain a function for car doors freezing stuck. Oh and by the way, the formula for a car door freezing stuck is a bit more complicated than that, you have to take into account whether or not the car has been in a moist climate recently and if the water between the door and the car is enough to form a piece of ice strong enough to exceed the maximum force a human could produce with his bare hands.

And this is actually a great example of my original question. Have the developers done enough research and taken into account the drag being produced by Rico in free fall? Or have they just used a sloppy and crude formula like polimerjones? Oh and I would like to point out, that unlike polimerjones example, my questions is actually relevant to the game, since free fall is a big part of the game, and opening car doors isn't.

Remember, this is a question for the developers, not gamers who maybe doesn't understand what I'm talking about or the difference between a falling object with drag calculated and one without. I just need to know to what extent the developers have developed and used their resources in the Game Engine.

CentroX
11th Oct 2009, 21:37
The developers has not aimed for realism in physics. They have already said this.

PerryJ
11th Oct 2009, 21:40
Thank you! Four posts before I could get a straight god damn answer! Btw, CentroX, that was your 99:th post, congrats.

skater150
11th Oct 2009, 22:28
is your name jimmy perry? i might know you

polimerjones
12th Oct 2009, 00:01
a little bit o' sarcasm. i guess no one has a sense of humor.

JAGeng
12th Oct 2009, 03:02
Hmm, a little too picky for my taste. Sorry,I really dont think physics laws will be applied here, not even Newtons 1,2,3, or curve simetry and superelevation, friction modules, statics and dynamics, stress and strain, trigonometry or parabolic trajectories or any of that stuff, after all is just supposed to be fun. Oh, and g = 9.81 m/s^2.

JAGeng
12th Oct 2009, 03:03
[QUOTE=polimerjones;1201247]well i have drivin a car before. i know that when its cold the door seems to get stuck. the formula looks like this (car door+bloody cold=door stuck) . i know this is kind a hard formula to understand but im a pro at driving. So developers you might want to take a look at this. maybe on wiki. oh yeah if any one wants the formula in an expanded version just ask.[/QUOTE

Thats a good one.

awesome_man
12th Oct 2009, 03:17
e=mc^2

PoorBison
12th Oct 2009, 03:23
e=mc^2That really doesn't apply here, hehe.

Sadistic_Sandbox_Player
12th Oct 2009, 13:07
You cannot be serious. A formula? Haven't you listened the devs saying that even the red flash is there because the game is not serious?
So, you have a point but don't expect complex formulas and all, specially with something the majority of us didn't notice.

PerryJ
12th Oct 2009, 18:28
A formula? Well how else are you supposed to a get Nico to move along the X Y an Z plane of the world? You know when you program a game, or a physics engine, you have to use formulas to make things happen, you can't just write "add gravity()" and expect that to fix everything. Now the developers have already used a formula to calculate the movement, I was just wondering how complex (and therefore realistic) the formula was designed.

And fyi, as I said, I'm new to the forum and I haven't been paying much attention to what the dev team has said.

skater150
12th Oct 2009, 22:27
Rico not niko whats up with this problem you have with a formula you "know" the devs used, cmon its a video game not a flight sim, they arent planning for the most precise, as you said "realistic" gameplay experience. i know you are new but cant you talk about something that wont be so suggestive, if it became too realistic it wouldnt be a video game anymore, apologies to anyone who found this rude but perry you need to not worry about their formula

polimerjones
12th Oct 2009, 22:38
boom

PoorBison
12th Oct 2009, 22:41
Personally I'm quite interested in their physics calculations now, I never really considered it before reading this thread.

So you are a skydiver yourself, PerryJ? That must be quite an experience. How does it feel when you do your first jump? Its something I plan to do someday.

Sadistic_Sandbox_Player
12th Oct 2009, 23:30
A formula? Well how else are you supposed to a get Nico to move along the X Y an Z plane of the world? You know when you program a game, or a physics engine, you have to use formulas to make things happen, you can't just write "add gravity()" and expect that to fix everything. Now the developers have already used a formula to calculate the movement, I was just wondering how complex (and therefore realistic) the formula was designed.

And fyi, as I said, I'm new to the forum and I haven't been paying much attention to what the dev team has said.

Thank you, I'm a programer but I'm stupid you know, I couldn't have lived without the aclaration. I said don't expect anything too complex, not don't expect code. Is that too complex for you smart guy? Watch your ways of speaking please.

PerryJ
15th Oct 2009, 19:51
Poor Bison, it is quite the experience, and the first jump, never been more scared in my life, and I probably never will be. But I seriously think that it's something everyone should try, one of the most fantastic experiences in the world.

Oh and Sadistic, and everyone else for that matter, i sincerely apologize for my previous behavior, I've had quite a few bad days recently, and I shouldn't have taken it out on you guys.

Sadistic_Sandbox_Player
15th Oct 2009, 20:16
Poor Bison, it is quite the experience, and the first jump, never been more scared in my life, and I probably never will be. But I seriously think that it's something everyone should try, one of the most fantastic experiences in the world.

Oh and Sadistic, and everyone else for that matter, i sincerely apologize for my previous behavior, I've had quite a few bad days recently, and I shouldn't have taken it out on you guys.

That's apreciated. Then I apologize too. Now we can all be friends, worship the Almighty Dual Hook and hate the Red Flash together :D

Dedimes
15th Oct 2009, 23:20
Back on topic people... They should make parachutes that can do differint things, that the one explained in this complex diagram.

http://www.solutionswithinlifecoaching.com/images/parachute.jpg + http://www.dolbster.com/main/images/giantfan.jpg = http://t1.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:rHXN_y2c5bGopM:http://www.jmhcycles.co.uk/Images/Company%2520logos/up_arrow.gif

Edit: w000000000000000000000000t 100 POST!

polimerjones
15th Oct 2009, 23:32
perry dems just jokes as well. for some things being realistic makes them better,

awesome_man
16th Oct 2009, 00:52
ok///what the hell is that propeller thing-a-ma-jig????

Dedimes
16th Oct 2009, 06:15
im saying if you attached the propeller to ricos back, you could gain a little height!

polimerjones
16th Oct 2009, 10:42
what im confused about is... i was told that you cant parasail in Jc2. i was also told that if you grapple a car lets say, you wont do that quick auto reel-in or sling shot its a button press. now what happens if you have your parachute open, hook a car and dont press any buttons, would not this lead you to parasail or what would happen.

PerryJ
16th Oct 2009, 11:10
Polimer you will be able to parasail, if you look through the vids you'll see Rico parasailing after a car. I can't remember which one, take a look at the 10 min gameplay trailer, it's probably there!

Sadistic_Sandbox_Player
16th Oct 2009, 12:37
? My coldman said no parasailing. It should be the slingshot itself what you saw. So, I stick to polimerjones question: wich are the options if there isn't parasailing? Maybe you slingshot to vehicles too without staying attached parasailing?

PerryJ
16th Oct 2009, 18:01
Yeah Sadistic you're right, looks like a case of memory falsification :P That kinda sucks though, the parasailing was a fun part of the first game.

Sadistic_Sandbox_Player
16th Oct 2009, 20:14
Yeah Sadistic you're right, looks like a case of memory falsification :P That kinda sucks though, the parasailing was a fun part of the first game.

I hope we won't miss it much thanks to the slingshot, but it will be missed anyway

polimerjones
16th Oct 2009, 20:34
and according to mycoldman the slingshot is not auto so what would happen if you grapple and dont slingshot???? i would be sad if they change there mind to auto slingshot.

Sadistic_Sandbox_Player
16th Oct 2009, 22:08
and according to mycoldman the slingshot is not auto so what would happen if you grapple and dont slingshot???? i would be sad if they change there mind to auto slingshot.

Yeah, that's a bit of a contradiction. I'm curious too

paliden
17th Oct 2009, 01:51
i agree but there is something else i want to get across. i've been looking around the forum and i think that we people are the only ones on this or recently any way

Sadistic_Sandbox_Player
17th Oct 2009, 12:48
i agree but there is something else i want to get across. i've been looking around the forum and i think that we people are the only ones on this or recently any way

What?


and according to mycoldman the slingshot is not auto so what would happen if you grapple and dont slingshot???? i would be sad if they change there mind to auto slingshot.

Guys, I just realized, we have been already shown the way it works. When he grapples something he doesn't reel in automatically, but he just stays where he is and the options are, reel/slingshot or dual hook the thing you're grappled to something else. Remember when he attached the van to the chopper to drop it later? I think there's our answer

JAGeng
17th Oct 2009, 21:49
I think we need some one from development to clear everything.
Does any one from the team actually come in to the forum to answer us at all?

paliden
18th Oct 2009, 04:02
i would hope so

polimerjones
18th Oct 2009, 04:39
What?



Guys, I just realized, we have been already shown the way it works. When he grapples something he doesn't reel in automatically, but he just stays where he is and the options are, reel/slingshot or dual hook the thing you're grappled to something else. Remember when he attached the van to the chopper to drop it later? I think there's our answer

hes not in the air though with his parachute open. what would be the options while in air. slingshot or dual hook or have the car you just hooked drive away and your rope just gets longer and longer

Dedimes
18th Oct 2009, 05:16
Facts we Know:

Grapple will collide with anything with collision
You have to press a button to reel in

Car Parasailing: I Do Think it will work because these 3 Factors:
1. Grapple hook collides with anything with collision. unless we have hologram cars, grapple works.
2.Theres options on what to do before reeling in

3. If your on the ground, You would just stay still, but if you in the air, the game cant turn off the parachute because that would hurt you for invalid reasons :D'

Now, Parasailing behind a jet-

1. I dont know if if you allow you to parasail behind of jet, due to intense speeds. It would probably just immediately reel in

2. However If your travleing behind a fast moving jet, moving the same speed as the grapple hook, you wouldn't be able to reel in :D

Lude0ne
18th Oct 2009, 08:08
However If your travleing behind a fast moving jet, moving the same speed as the grapple hook, you wouldn't be able to reel in :D

Wait, what? If you shoot the hook at something moving away from you as fast as, or faster than the hook travels, it wont reach the object... but if you are already hooked onto something moving that speed, theres no reason why you wouldn't be able to reel in.

Sadistic_Sandbox_Player
18th Oct 2009, 13:44
hes not in the air though with his parachute open. what would be the options while in air. slingshot or dual hook or have the car you just hooked drive away and your rope just gets longer and longer

^ It seems so, like on the ground. I would like confirmation anyway

Dedimes, Mycoldman confirmed it, we can't parasail