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ballsguy
18th Sep 2009, 03:05
Hi all,

I've been posting in many of the threads related to the Gordon Crash, which has been thankfully figured out and fixed now.


Now that I've got the game maxed, and high Physx, well, where are they?

Is it just me, or did the demo have a lot more Physx happening?


I mean sure, theres some papers flying around, and stacks of paper break up.

BUT only a few pillars can be broken up now, and only with the Batarangs, not with hitting them or hitting enemies into them.

Theres a few banners waving around in the wind that react to Batarangs.


I see hardly any physics anywhere:
-glass doesent break with physics
-no objects are breakable
-hardly any floors are breakable


It's just that there's so little actual physics that the additions of Physx on specific materials feels gimmicy and tacked on.


Is the breakable pillars by punching and hitting, and more breakable floors in the demo going to be returned?

shevanel77
18th Sep 2009, 03:10
I already askd this. This game is cool but apparently they were lazy on the physics.

Maybe we will see a patch, I doubt it..


I don't see what the big deal was when they said "the pc version will take another month due to us implenting the physx"

I say lol

Moleculor
18th Sep 2009, 03:21
The PhsyX were tacked on at the end of the game by Nvidia's external team of developers waltzing in and dropping it into the game, from what I understand. If you want the game to utilize it throughout the entire game, go back in time and tell the developers early on in the development cycle to start thinking about PhysX implimentations early.

Kevin =]
18th Sep 2009, 04:18
did you see alot of fog in the graveyard outside the asylum? i thought that was a great physx addition

pleomax
18th Sep 2009, 04:46
Just enjoy the game, physx is an enhancement like ambient occlusion.

You don't hear people saying, hey eidos where's the ambient occlusion ??

It adds a little something to the game just like the other graphic settings.

As for the delay well pc games always seem to be delayed, i don't think it was the physx, i think it's just that console gets priority because that's where they make the most money.

shevanel77
18th Sep 2009, 05:20
BM:AA good game. but I'm just griping over NVIDIA physx all together... not BATMAN :AA

When I'm bashing the physx Im not bashing the makers of bm:aa, Im bashing nvidia.. I think their physx engine is just plain stupid and for them not to work with ATI cards is just plain dumb.

havok ftw and its old as hell.

Red faction uses havoc and damn near 90% of the game excluding rocks can be broken down and I run it at 50fps maxxed out without a stutter..

red faction you go around breaking buildings into pieces and **** goes crumblling down before your eyes whilst beiing shot at by xx# people ... but this game (bm:aa) rrequires dedicated phsyx cards?

thats nvidia trying to sell more cards by telling people they have to buy another card so they can kick paper and walk through spider webs.

ballsguy
18th Sep 2009, 05:21
Hmm, well, I retract my comment about it being gimmicy.


It certainly does add to the experience in some areas once you get into the game more.

And wow, this game is so so much cooler once you leave that first area.

dentifrice
18th Sep 2009, 13:46
yes the demo version has more physx effects....

the only good thing I see about that is that I always get 60 FPS with physx settings at HIGH while in the demo I get only 20-40 fps (even if my computer is a C2D @ 4ghz with an OC' gtx 275...).


But I have a weird bug with the final release. I see a lot of objets "floating" around. Outside, some leafs are like...50 cm above the ground. Same thing with some paper sheets.


that's weird...

Moleculor
18th Sep 2009, 14:50
When I'm bashing the physx Im not bashing the makers of bm:aa, Im bashing nvidia.. I think their physx engine is just plain stupid and for them not to work with ATI cards is just plain dumb.

Nvidia offered to help ATI get their cards working to do PhysX. ATI refused. Complain to ATI.

ballsguy
18th Sep 2009, 15:48
The Physx engine is fantastic, not stupid.

Without hardware-accelerated physics, this game would run 1-5 fps on powerful gaming rigs with the small amount of physics thats implemented. Instead, with Physx, we can get 60 fps.

So far games don't use enough of it. If they based their entite games around the Physx engine, then we would (and will, in the future with DX11 compute shader and further advancements) see games with very realistic physics all throughout them.

procrastinator
18th Sep 2009, 15:56
Nvidia offered to help ATI get their cards working to do PhysX. ATI refused. Complain to ATI.

Source? Sounds like BS to me.

deders
18th Sep 2009, 17:06
Hi all,

I've been posting in many of the threads related to the Gordon Crash, which has been thankfully figured out and fixed now.


Now that I've got the game maxed, and high Physx, well, where are they?

Is it just me, or did the demo have a lot more Physx happening?


I mean sure, theres some papers flying around, and stacks of paper break up.

BUT only a few pillars can be broken up now, and only with the Batarangs, not with hitting them or hitting enemies into them.

Theres a few banners waving around in the wind that react to Batarangs.


I see hardly any physics anywhere:
-glass doesent break with physics
-no objects are breakable
-hardly any floors are breakable


It's just that there's so little actual physics that the additions of Physx on specific materials feels gimmicy and tacked on.


Is the breakable pillars by punching and hitting, and more breakable floors in the demo going to be returned?

Would be nice if there was more of that, but (without giving too much away) the bit that makes it all worth it has to be the scarecrow levels.

The Coca Cola Company
19th Sep 2009, 01:24
Source? Sounds like BS to me.

http://www.bit-tech.net/custompc/news/602205/nvidia-offers-physx-support-to-amd--ati.html


Nvidia’s director of product PR for EMEA and India, Luciano Alibrandi, told Custom PC that ‘We are committed to an open PhysX platform that encourages innovation and participation,’ and added that Nvidia would be ‘open to talking with any GPU vendor about support for their architecture.’

Let's see Ati's response to the offer:

http://www.bit-tech.net/news/hardware/2008/12/11/amd-exec-says-physx-will-die/1


"There is no plan for closed and proprietary standards like PhysX," said Cheng. "As we have emphasised with our support for OpenCL and DX11, closed and proprietary standards will die."

There you go.

SteMot
19th Sep 2009, 13:11
I've actually been playing the game with PhysX, and have to say I have now turned it off.
My reasons are this:-

1.Utterly terrible performance. I was playing the game on a GTX260 with PhysX on High, the game was running at around 30-40fps until a big PhysX event where it would go to the 20's. Hell, in the first Scarecrow sequence it drops to 5fps and never recovers. Even on Normal PhysX, the game runs with enough lag to make it noticeable.

2. Causes the game to crash to desktop on return to menu sometimes with "BMShippingyadayada has encountered an error"

3. It's actually not that great anyway. A few pieces of paper and some admittedly nice steam and fog effects should not require a separate Video card to get decent frame rates. Hell, Red Faction Guerilla on PC has no hardware acceleration support and has 20x the amount of physics work going on in this game. Every PhysX game has this problem, Darkest Of Days is even worse.

From now on I'm just playing without it.

deders
19th Sep 2009, 16:07
I've actually been playing the game with PhysX, and have to say I have now turned it off.
My reasons are this:-

1.Utterly terrible performance. I was playing the game on a GTX260 with PhysX on High, the game was running at around 30-40fps until a big PhysX event where it would go to the 20's. Hell, in the first Scarecrow sequence it drops to 5fps and never recovers. Even on Normal PhysX, the game runs with enough lag to make it noticeable.

2. Causes the game to crash to desktop on return to menu sometimes with "BMShippingyadayada has encountered an error"

3. It's actually not that great anyway. A few pieces of paper and some admittedly nice steam and fog effects should not require a separate Video card to get decent frame rates. Hell, Red Faction Guerilla on PC has no hardware acceleration support and has 20x the amount of physics work going on in this game. Every PhysX game has this problem, Darkest Of Days is even worse.

From now on I'm just playing without it.

Have you tried it on normal like it recommends for your single card?

Although I have to agree, about other games using software physx just as effectively, the ghostbusters library level springs to mind

SteMot
19th Sep 2009, 18:56
Have you tried it on normal like it recommends for your single card?

Although I have to agree, about other games using software physx just as effectively, the ghostbusters library level springs to mind

Yep, much the same. I have just installed the latest Real-Tek drivers for my sound though, and surprisingly the PhysX doesn't seem to cause much lag any more. My frame rates still only 30-40 fps, but the mouse is now responsive at all times.

Yes, Ghostbusters physics were handled very nicely, and almost everything could be affected with your Proton stream. I just don't see how the physics in the game can warrant a hardware requirement, they are just not that impressive. Hell, even with PhysX turned off the game still has a physics cape, physics objects and also full physics plastic curtains.

deders
21st Sep 2009, 00:01
Yep, much the same. I have just installed the latest Real-Tek drivers for my sound though, and surprisingly the PhysX doesn't seem to cause much lag any more. My frame rates still only 30-40 fps, but the mouse is now responsive at all times.


funily enough after playing through the scarecrow levels a couple of times I found where I was once getting 25fps i'm only getting 5. strange

Kundalor
23rd Sep 2009, 15:03
I was also very disappointed at the PhysX effects in Batman:AA.
Heck, I went and bought a GTS250, just so that I could put my old
8800GTS as dedicated physx, and all I get is some moving paper
and spider webs in the batman game. There is hardly any gameplay
difference with physx on or off, yet it somehow requires extra hardware.
I am not complaining about the game, I think it is great and superb.
But I am very disappointed at Nvidia.

Red Faction Guerilla has a much more rich physics, and yet is only
handled by the CPU. Their physics engine takes into account the thickness
of the materials, as well as their type, in order to calculate how the
buildings brake. Moreover, if parts of the buildings are destroyed, the
materials in the rest of the building will experience stress, and the building
may eventually collapse in a realistic manner.
I saw an interview with the Red Faction developers. They said that the
first buildings they built for the game were only built from an artistic point
of view to make them look good. But it turned out that because of the physics,
these buildings were not stable, as the they were not constructed to be stable
from an architectural point of view. The developers actually had to become
architects and learn how to build structurally stable buildings.
That is how intricate their physics is, and yet all of it is handled by the CPU.

Makes we wonder what the Nvidia physx engine is actually doing. From now on,
I will only buy ATI cards, and hope that they may some time in the future also
create hardware physics to make even more amazing effects.

deders
23rd Sep 2009, 15:06
all I get is some moving paper and spider webs in the batman game. There is hardly any gameplay difference with physx on or off,

have you not seen the scarecrow levels with physx on high?

Kundalor
23rd Sep 2009, 15:24
have you not seen the scarecrow levels with physx on high?

Yes, I did see them, as I have played through the whole game
with physx set to high.
The difference I could see was that there was more stuff flying
around. But as far as I could see, there was not much interaction
between batman and these new dynamic elements. So the
added physx did not add much difference to the dynamic gameplay
experience, but merely added a little more visual eye candy.
I believe the developers of the game could have just as well scripted
these extra flying things into it, and then we consumers would not
have to buy extra hardware for the physx.

This is just my opinion, and I welcome any comments on this.

=ColdFire=
23rd Sep 2009, 15:31
I was also very disappointed at the PhysX effects in Batman:AA.
Heck, I went and bought a GTS250, just so that I could put my old
8800GTS as dedicated physx, and all I get is some moving paper
and spider webs in the batman game. There is hardly any gameplay
difference with physx on or off, yet it somehow requires extra hardware.
I am not complaining about the game, I think it is great and superb.
But I am very disappointed at Nvidia.

Red Faction Guerilla has a much more rich physics, and yet is only
handled by the CPU. Their physics engine takes into account the thickness
of the materials, as well as their type, in order to calculate how the
buildings brake. Moreover, if parts of the buildings are destroyed, the
materials in the rest of the building will experience stress, and the building
may eventually collapse in a realistic manner.
I saw an interview with the Red Faction developers. They said that the
first buildings they built for the game were only built from an artistic point
of view to make them look good. But it turned out that because of the physics,
these buildings were not stable, as the they were not constructed to be stable
from an architectural point of view. The developers actually had to become
architects and learn how to build structurally stable buildings.
That is how intricate their physics is, and yet all of it is handled by the CPU.

Makes we wonder what the Nvidia physx engine is actually doing. From now on,
I will only buy ATI cards, and hope that they may some time in the future also
create hardware physics to make even more amazing effects.

So you want to buy Ati as Nvida made something that was not perfect, when ATi did nothing?

Kundalor
23rd Sep 2009, 15:46
So you want to buy Ati as Nvida made something that was not perfect, when ATi did nothing?


If the physics engine in Red Faction Guerilla can do so much, without
being accelerated by some extra hardware, I feel ripped off by nvidia.
Therefore, I will simply chose anything else that is not nvidia, and ATI
is the best choice.
And evidently, we dont need a lot of hardware acceleration to get some
really nice dynamic and real-time physics.

The batman demo had lots of objects which could be broken, and floor
tiles which broke etc... Also, in one video I saw that promoted the Batman
game with physics, there was a scene where Batman throws another guy
into a desk, and the desk brakes into pieces. I played through the whole
batman game without seing a single desk or furniture break.
So I think the physx advertisement for Batman was missleading and
exagerated, which contributed to the feeling of being ripped off.

deders
23rd Sep 2009, 15:50
Yes, I did see them, as I have played through the whole game
with physx set to high.
The difference I could see was that there was more stuff flying
around. But as far as I could see, there was not much interaction
between batman and these new dynamic elements. So the
added physx did not add much difference to the dynamic gameplay
experience, but merely added a little more visual eye candy.
I believe the developers of the game could have just as well scripted
these extra flying things into it, and then we consumers would not
have to buy extra hardware for the physx.

This is just my opinion, and I welcome any comments on this.

Unfortunately they would have either had to rewrite the levels to make it more than eye candy. and i have to agree, as much as I like what they have done with it, I can't help but feel that it shouldn't take an entire 9800gtx+ to render it when something similar can be done on a cpu, almost as effectively. the ghostbusters library level springs to mind. Also I don't think the physx software is optimised well enough as sometimes it plays smoothly and others it slows to a crawl. but then I do appreciate being able to have graphics this nice without having to upgrade my cpu and motherboard and ram, which i'd have to do if it was cpu only.

The Coca Cola Company
23rd Sep 2009, 16:45
If the physics engine in Red Faction Guerilla can do so much, without
being accelerated by some extra hardware, I feel ripped off by nvidia.
Therefore, I will simply chose anything else that is not nvidia, and ATI
is the best choice.
And evidently, we dont need a lot of hardware acceleration to get some
really nice dynamic and real-time physics.

The batman demo had lots of objects which could be broken, and floor
tiles which broke etc... Also, in one video I saw that promoted the Batman
game with physics, there was a scene where Batman throws another guy
into a desk, and the desk brakes into pieces. I played through the whole
batman game without seing a single desk or furniture break.
So I think the physx advertisement for Batman was missleading and
exagerated, which contributed to the feeling of being ripped off.

I played a challenge map (maybe it was the one from the DLC? Can't remember..) with PhysX OFF and I broke a desk by throwing a guy over it. So this definitely exists in game and it works even with Physx off.

Also, the demo was a bunch of levels thrown together to give the player an idea of what the the game is about. It's not identical to the first level of the full game. So, in order for the player to take notice of the PhysX effects they put as many as they could in every room.



And evidently, we dont need a lot of hardware acceleration to get some
really nice dynamic and real-time physics.

nvidia, ati and havok think otherwise.

Spinachless
28th Sep 2009, 05:53
Talk about looking for reasons to complain. What's going on here is that instead of playing through the game, you're going to every object and area and throwing things at it, jumping on it, tossing guys into it. Then you frown and pout about the "laziness" of the physx. PLAY THE GAME. Don't inspect it.

Just from playing I noticed the leaves and papers. Not because I'm looking and checking things off on my clip board, but because it was part of the experience and it made me "wow". I also saw really neat bunching and deformations in carpet in the penitentiary, along with breakable things and glass.

I'm running a system that was top of the line 2 years ago and this runs 1920x1080 perfectly with everything on, highest detail, normal physics. They optimized the game beautifully. I don't go through the game looking for what's NOT there, or even what is. I just play it and enjoy it. I suggest you try that.

Edit: Also I noticed above someone mentioned "consumers having to buy extra hardware". I'm pretty sure you didn't get grilled by whoever sold you the game to see if you bought new video cards. I still have OC 8800GT's, pretty cheap cards, and physx is enabled. If you don't have something that can run this, who cares? You can still play the game.

The_Hylden
28th Sep 2009, 10:48
Indeed.

The default game, without the PhysX, is what all PS3 and X-Box 360 people have to play. So, you're saying that because you can't potentually play this version with the extra added bonus of PhysX and that means it's a rip-off, because you are "forced" to buy new hardware to play it??

Uh-uh. You have nothing you need buy to play the exact same experience the console millions have to play. So, argument = invalid. And for the argument that it's a lazy addition: play it through without the stuff turned on, then with, and I guarantee you, if you do as Spinachless there said and NOT try and check off every single thing if it's working with PhysX, or not, and just take in the experience, you will be overwhelmed by the immersion it can cause. Just something as easy as adding in some volumetric fog in the right area, does a world of wonders for this particular game, which is all about eh subtle details for the atmosphere it wants to create and engulf you in...

It's why I play it on High PhysX and endure the hit it takes to the framerate. If it were another game, say a FPS, where precision and timing are everything, then I wouldn't be able to do it and it would be too frustrating. With this game, slow downs now and then only seem to add to the experience, like everything is moving at film/movie-like speed, as opposed to gaming, slightly-too-fast-for-humanity speed. I notice in areas when the framerate picks up to "normal," Batman and everyone seems to be moving at super speed and it's a bit unnatural to me. I actually prefer the motions a bit slower... Sometimes, yeah, it gets too slow, but it's manageable:p

Anyway...

FlakMagnet
28th Sep 2009, 12:20
Completely agree.

But I don't think he was suggesting Batman was a bad game, just that PhysX is a bit of a letdown to him.

For me, PhysX is something I got for free a while ago when nVidia included it in their drivers. With this free update, I am able to play games like Batman with additional effects with an acceptable (to me) framerate drop. With these extra effect, I personally think the game looks a lot better in certain areas, and I have been very impressed by what has been added over and above the console versions (which are more expensive by the way).

So, I feel lucky that I can turn on additional effects in games such as Batman, no matter how small or how impressive, because of a free update provided by nVidia and the game developers. Without the obvious amount of work that went in to Batman to add these effects (would be amazed if it only took a month), we would all be enjoying the game as the console owners do. Please enjoy the free additional effects instead of moan about what's not there.

Besides, if everything broke apart in Batman, it would change the whole game dynamic and would probably not be as enjoyable as it is.

Just my 2 pennies worth :D