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lolpants
16th Sep 2009, 19:56
https://www.ftccomplaintassistant.gov/FTC_Wizard.aspx?Lang=en

Nvidia is engaging in anti-competitive practices, and Eidos is acting as a willing party to it. FTC complaints may be filed at the above link.

If a mod comes and suppresses impedes the consumer right of information and ability to file a complaint (by deleting or locking this thread), this action will also be included in the complaint.

lostsomething
16th Sep 2009, 20:21
... you've got to be kidding me.

krameriffic
16th Sep 2009, 20:22
Download the catalyst 9.9s, force AA through the CCC and be happy. It actually works now and you don't have to rename the executable file like with other UE3 games that aren't as well supported as UT3 or Bioshock.

lolpants
16th Sep 2009, 20:31
Download the catalyst 9.9s, force AA through the CCC and be happy. It actually works now and you don't have to rename the executable file like with other UE3 games that aren't as well supported as UT3 or Bioshock.
They didn't force Nvidia to make an extra driver that could do it.
They didn't force Nvidia users to google a workaround.
They deliberately disabled AA on ATI cards and even thumbed their noses at us. Did you know that in the settings menu, it actually says "NVidia (TM) Multi Sample Anti Aliasing" when AA is not an Nvidia-unique feature? Should I go on, or is the point made yet?

krameriffic
16th Sep 2009, 20:36
They didn't force Nvidia to make an extra driver that could do it.
They didn't force Nvidia users to google a workaround.
They deliberately disabled AA on ATI cards and even thumbed their noses at us. Did you know that in the settings menu, it actually says "NVidia (TM) Multi Sample Anti Aliasing" when AA is not an Nvidia-unique feature? Should I go on, or is the point made yet?

I'm not saying it isn't ridiculous, but you're arguing against the very nature of the marketplace. Some money changed hands, some deals got made and therefore some people (ATI owners) were gypped. They've addressed the issue in a somewhat disagreeable manner, but at least they addressed it at all. Frankly, you're fighting an uphill battle.

lolpants
16th Sep 2009, 20:39
I'm not saying it isn't ridiculous, but you're arguing against the very nature of the marketplace. Some money changed hands, some deals got made and therefore some people (ATI owners) were gypped. They've addressed the issue in a somewhat disagreeable manner, but at least they addressed it at all.
We shouldn't have to thank them for doing things that abuse their market position and deep pockets. That activity is possibly illegal and deserves to be looked at by the FTC.

Frankly, you're fighting an uphill battle.
Somebody has to do it. If nobody cared, our choices will soon be Intel GMA and Nvidia for graphics. Nobody wants that except for Nvidia shareholders.

=ColdFire=
16th Sep 2009, 20:44
As far as I know UE3 has NO anti-aliasing, Nvidia MADE a work around that was included in the game, ATi now has a workaround, but was to late for the game....

truestatic
16th Sep 2009, 20:46
Did you know that in the settings menu, it actually says "NVidia (TM) Multi Sample Anti Aliasing" http://i32.tinypic.com/104p374.png

lolpants
16th Sep 2009, 20:50
http://i32.tinypic.com/104p374.png

http://img197.imageshack.us/img197/6026/whatx.png

lolpants
16th Sep 2009, 20:52
As far as I know UE3 has NO anti-aliasing, Nvidia MADE a work around that was included in the game, ATi now has a workaround, but was to late for the game....

UE3 supports AA in DX10 games. See: Bioshock.

truestatic
16th Sep 2009, 20:52
http://img197.imageshack.us/img197/6026/whatx.png

That's pretty keen.

The Coca Cola Company
16th Sep 2009, 22:04
http://img197.imageshack.us/img197/6026/whatx.png

Patch the game. The message changes.

lostsomething
16th Sep 2009, 22:18
UE3 supports AA in DX10 games. See: Bioshock.

No, Bioshock doesn't support AA in either DX9 or 10 modes. You can force it through the control panel but it's not perfect, I know I've gotten visual artifacts (shadows of things in other rooms visible through the walls) from doing so.


We shouldn't have to thank them for doing things that abuse their market position and deep pockets. That activity is possibly illegal and deserves to be looked at by the FTC.

Do you know that once, long ago, we had an entire graphics api that nobody except people who owned a certain vendor's cards could run?

MartyChang
16th Sep 2009, 22:26
I just found this forum after being directed here from a discussion on this matter at another community.

As a PC gamer, ATI user, and long-time Batman fan I was really looking forward to buying this game. I've heard nothing but good things about it, and having grown up with a fondness for the Batman universe, I simply had to experience this game. I refused to pirate it; I really wanted to give whoever's involved in such a great game my patronage, in the hopes that I'd see more Batman games.

However, to my shock, I had discovered that Eidos had decided to lock out anti-aliasing from ATI users. As I understand it, the lock-out takes the guise as a hardware incompatibility with ATI video cards: however, upon forcing the video card to report as an NVIDIA card, the anti-aliasing would instantly work without any issues whatsoever.

This is not the way competition should be. This is not fair for ATI users, this is not fair for AMD, and this is definitely not fair for consumers in general (whether they use ATI, NVIDIA, or Intel GMA). This is the behavior of giant corporations wishing to squander the market for the sake of making money, disregarding the progress of technology, consumer choice, or indeed anti-trust laws. Not only is NVIDIA at fault for performing such heinous behavior, but Eidos is at fault for allowing this to happen.

As somebody who was looking forward for paying for this game, I am extremely disappointed and I severely doubt I will ever purchase this game. If pirates of this game have a bug in their moral code (http://play.tm/news/26667/eidos-catch-out-batman-arkham-asylum-pirate/), then perhaps the executives and programmers at Eidos are in need of a patch to fix their own glitches.

SteMot
16th Sep 2009, 22:33
Is it, or is it not possible to actually enable AA on an ATI card with the latest drivers through the ATI settings? Yes? Thought so, so whether it's selctable from the config or not, people with ATi can make it work through their ATi app.

You are aware I take it that when HL2 was first released the only way to get the bast quality geometry baked shadows was to use an ATi card I take it. It's alright for them to have these kind of deals with developers though? Or is it because it a game you want to play and it effects you? Both companies have done this kind of thing many times in the past.

Your post is pointless.

MartyChang
16th Sep 2009, 22:36
Is it, or is it not possible to actually enable AA on an ATI card with the latest drivers through the ATI settings? Yes? Thought so, so whether it's selctable from the config or not, people with ATi can make it work through their ATi app.

Your post is pointless.

This is still very immoral of NVIDIA and EIDOS. If a burglar broke into your house and left without stealing anything, he would still be guilty, yes?

SteMot
16th Sep 2009, 22:58
This is still very immoral of NVIDIA and EIDOS. If a burglar broke into your house and left without stealing anything, he would still be guilty, yes?

How is that even a comparable analogy? AA works on both ATi and Nvidia, it's just accessed in different places on each card. It's a complete non-issue.

capable heart
17th Sep 2009, 00:07
Let me see if I understand the progress of the issue so far...

So the issue has been patched now, right? (ie, because it requires part of a workaround to be in the drivers also, which is why ATI didn't have AA to begin with--but now they do)

Weird. I was able to force AA on the PC demo in DirectX 9 with my ATI 4870 by re-naming the exe to UT3.exe.

The Coca Cola Company
17th Sep 2009, 01:27
Is it, or is it not possible to actually enable AA on an ATI card with the latest drivers through the ATI settings? Yes? Thought so, so whether it's selctable from the config or not, people with ATi can make it work through their ATi app.

You are aware I take it that when HL2 was first released the only way to get the bast quality geometry baked shadows was to use an ATi card I take it. It's alright for them to have these kind of deals with developers though? Or is it because it a game you want to play and it effects you? Both companies have done this kind of thing many times in the past.

Your post is pointless.

Exactly. It is estimated that Ati payed to Valve 8M $ for marketing and exclusive features.

http://www.theinquirer.net/inquirer/news/1030706/how-ati-paid-half-life-deal

People tend to forget very easily..

lostsomething
17th Sep 2009, 04:41
Yeah, I remember Ati paying developers for"True Form" exclusives in the past as well.

The Coca Cola Company
17th Sep 2009, 04:58
That's a bit different because only their cards supported that technology, but anyway after the patch I see no point to continue discussing this "issue"

=ColdFire=
17th Sep 2009, 06:59
They did NOT LOCK OUT AA FOR ATi, ATi failed to support it until a few days ago. UE3 does not natively support AA, you can force it thought control panels, and a few game may have inbuilt workarounds, but due to UE3 useing a deffered algorithm for doing its shadowing, which scales poorly with (current) anti-aliasing algorithms, thus AA is unavailable for UE3 engined games ATM. I should note there are games that at cirtian times only had UE3 AA on ATi cards.

This is not the product of some behind the door deal, that magically disables the AA for ATi, and it not longer matters as ATi have made a way round it as well as Nvidia did.

Please research the subject if you don't believe me.

jammy2232
17th Sep 2009, 07:06
it's only AA. I mean yea am annoyed but the gameplay is far more important to me than how the game looks. However I do feel irritated have paid all that money for my ati card only to find me unable to make full use of it's capabilities.

capable heart
17th Sep 2009, 08:30
it's only AA. I mean yea am annoyed but the gameplay is far more important to me than how the game looks. However I do feel irritated have paid all that money for my ati card only to find me unable to make full use of it's capabilities.

Well, you are in luck because now AA does work with the latest ATI drivers.