PDA

View Full Version : Ok I might be missing this but how many activations are we allowed on Steam?



hlhbk
16th Sep 2009, 06:08
I preordered the game months ago, and never expected to have online activations through securom through Steam. I dual boot my pc with XP and Vista and change out parts a lot. Is there activation limits via securom when the game is purchased on Steam? If so how many?

BTW I searched for this on the forums and never could find a clear cut anwser.

jaywalker2309
16th Sep 2009, 07:28
For all digital versions there is a limit of 4 activations in a time frame of a month. These can be revoked however easily.

Choronzonon
16th Sep 2009, 10:06
For all digital versions there is i believe 3 simultaneous activations allowed to be installed at same time. These can be revoked however easily.
If you uninstall using Steam, does the counter increment back up? Does it recognize that you've removed an activation?

hlhbk
16th Sep 2009, 10:53
Jay how do you revoke the activation? I uninstalled Batman from my vista install and never was prompted to remove the activation.

jaywalker2309
16th Sep 2009, 11:09
Will check steam said they'd put a guide how to do it, but possibly not gone live yet.

For steam users
Press windows key R.. bring up RUN
type
"c:\program files\steam\steamapps\common\batman arkham asylum\binaries\bmstartapp.exe /revoke"

Assuming you installed steam to default folder. This will run the revoke tool on the exe.

Cirap
16th Sep 2009, 11:12
Will check steam said they'd put a guide how to do it, but possibly not gone live yet.

For steam users
Press windows key R.. bring up RUN
type
"c:\program files\steam\steamapps\common\batman arkham asylum\binaries\bmstartapp.exe /revoke"

Assuming you installed steam to default folder. This will run the revoke tool on the exe.

isn't that a bit advanced for the average user?

It's no problem for me, but do you think Average Joe A will look up how to revoke installs? No! Publishers and developers need to make things like this much more streamlined for PC users. probably 90% of all users won't know how to do that, and why would they think to look for info like that when they uninstall the game?

this is a perfect example of "publishers trying to protect their investment from pirates", but only ends up hurting the legit, paying customers

jaywalker2309
16th Sep 2009, 11:19
isn't that a bit advanced for the average user?

It's no problem for me, but do you think Average Joe A will look up how to revoke installs? No! Publishers and developers need to make things like this much more streamlined for PC users. probably 90% of all users won't know how to do that, and why would they think to look for info like that when they uninstall the game?

this is a perfect example of "publishers trying to protect their investment from pirates", but only ends up hurting the legit, paying customers

Please explain how its `hurting` the legit customer. They are playing the game fine, they uninstall, if they reinstall later it will work still on the same machine. How is this hurting anyone? You are talking average user here, how many average users run multiple machines and the like..
As i said am checking with steam about making it easier to revoke. Totally agree it should be simpler for them to ensure if they want to install onto a new machine they dont run into problems

NOTE Revoking only needed on DIGITAL masters, consumers with physical discs dont have to worry about anything like this..

Cirap
16th Sep 2009, 11:34
Please explain how its `hurting` the legit customer. They are playing the game fine, they uninstall, if they reinstall later it will work still on the same machine. How is this hurting anyone? You are talking average user here, how many average users run multiple machines and the like..
As i said am checking with steam about making it easier to revoke. Totally agree it should be simpler for them to ensure if they want to install onto a new machine they dont run into problems

NOTE Revoking only needed on DIGITAL masters, consumers with physical discs dont have to worry about anything like this..

if they for some reason need to install the game a fourth time (computer crash, new computer, upgraded computer and so on) it won't be able to authenticate just because they didn't know to revoke their previous installs (or didn't have a chance to due to a crash). I'd say that is hurting the customer. Sure, very few customers will probably find themselves in that situation, but even just one is too many when it comes to this. they shouldn't have to jump through hoops to play the game they paid for.

jaywalker2309
16th Sep 2009, 11:39
if they for some reason need to install the game a fourth time (computer crash, new computer, upgraded computer and so on) it won't be able to authenticate just because they didn't know to revoke their previous installs (or didn't have a chance to due to a crash). I'd say that is hurting the customer. Sure, very few customers will probably find themselves in that situation, but even just one is too many when it comes to this. they shouldn't have to jump through hoops to play the game they paid for.


new computer - theres additional allowances for this
computer crash - if just rebooting same key will work, would need to be a reformat before it would `lose` its track of the license because you'd have removed it in the formatting
upgraded computer - would need a LOT of changes to affect this, new graphics card/sound card wouldnt trigger it



The number of users who would potentially affected by this are the same people who would have a bit of knowledge bout how to get around their system (upgrading pcs isnt something ya average joe does often)

As i said i will see what can do about making revoking easier.
https://support.securom.com/pop_batmanaa.html <- revoke tool is on here

Cirap
16th Sep 2009, 12:48
new computer - theres additional allowances for this
computer crash - if just rebooting same key will work, would need to be a reformat before it would `lose` its track of the license because you'd have removed it in the formatting
upgraded computer - would need a LOT of changes to affect this, new graphics card/sound card wouldnt trigger it



The number of users who would potentially affected by this are the same people who would have a bit of knowledge bout how to get around their system (upgrading pcs isnt something ya average joe does often)

As i said i will see what can do about making revoking easier.
https://support.securom.com/pop_batmanaa.html <- revoke tool is on here

I hear what you are saying, but no system is fool-proof. this is where Murphy's law comes in. someone somewhere is going to be affected by this

jaywalker2309
16th Sep 2009, 12:50
I hear what you are saying, but no system is fool-proof. this is where Murphy's law comes in. someone somewhere is going to be affected by this

and hopefully IF this happens we'll be here to support

SteMot
16th Sep 2009, 16:29
Activation limits make me glad I bought the retail UK collectors edition :D.

hlhbk
17th Sep 2009, 01:02
Jay as someone who bought the PS3 CE and the pc version I am sorry but this is some BS. So let me get this straight this is no obtrusive DRM (limited activations are intrusive, don't try to tell me they aren't) on the retail disc release of this game, yet there is on the digital releases? What kind of backwards decision is that?

Steam already is a form of DRM, so limited activations weren't needed. The disk based version on average is far more likely to get pirated especially without any true DRM attached to it. So why are you screwing customers that buy it digitally?

Please tell me there are plans to remove at least the limited installs down the line? I buy games on Steam to avoid software like securom as I think it sets a bad presedence that you are esentially acting like the average pc user would never need to activate the software more than 3 times. I can revoke this software no problem, but working in the IT field and having worked in the consumer market I have seen many people that would need more than 3 actvations and couldn't follow these instructions. It's a terrible bussiness decision to attatch this type of DRM to any Steam release.

It is my fault for not researching this but if this is the case if Eidos and Rocksteady release another Batman game I won't be getting it for PC, just for consoles. I realize piracy is a big issue but In my opinion DRM like this does nothing but hurt pc gaming. Plus on top of that the UK gets a CE for the pc version.

matches81
17th Sep 2009, 06:36
Very disappointing... and even more pointless and stupid than DRM on retail copies is. Steam already provides DRM... and so far, it works better than any other widespread form of it. Why put SecuROM on top of that, especially including activation limits? How is that going to help anybody? I really don't see any benefit in that, not for the publisher and definitely not for the customer.
Sometimes I wonder whether Sony DADC actually pays publishers to use that idiotic feature. Seemingly, publishers don't pay anything for it... or I just don't understand why they are paying for this exercise in futility that even scares customers away? Is there any logic behind that?

Meh... at least, jaycw kept his word and the retail version is seemingly DRM-free (I'll only know for sure when I get it)... although I don't really understand why he's defending the idiocy of this measure.

jammy2232
17th Sep 2009, 07:19
On stream it states 4 per month machine activation limit

http://store.steampowered.com/app/35010/

It states it next to the 3rd party DRM part under the meta scrore. Altough Am viewing from the UK.

jaywalker2309
17th Sep 2009, 07:24
As i keep saying the disc based version uses the disc as the encryption backbone, however on a digital master there is no physical item to protect against so it HAS to use some form of DRM system to ensure that 1 person doesnt just download it then distribute it freely. No one can argue that its WRONG that we are trying to ensure only people who pay can play the game. Also the limitation of installations HAS to be present on a digital master since again if there was no instant limit then people would just give out the key and we're back at the same situation with it being possible to freely distribute it.

Steam is different in how it works as you login to their servers so you are `tracked` that way (yes i know u can play offline but at somepoint you go online). They are the only online distributor who does it this way so are unique, however we have just 1 digital master and it fits into their system, all the other digital distributor just offer the installation and a key that unlocks the game. Cos the game is GFWL all versions have to match.

The ability to revoke your licenses is really simple, securom have a dedicated page to it. https://support.securom.com/pop_batmanaa.html <- and i am getting this to Steam too. Steam list the activation limits as 4 a month, on any hardware combination (hopefully allaying fears of people who say if they change their pc hardware or format etc).

capable heart
17th Sep 2009, 07:42
Okay, so Steam does have its own kind of DRM, but since the digital download version of the game is also distributed through other services, there needs to be some form of DRM besides just Steam (because obviously that wouldn't be there from other services)?

Seems reasonable enough I guess.

I dislike online activation as a form of DRM, generally speaking, but if someone is downloading the game through Steam then at least they can't complain about not having a net connection to activate it.

As long as there is a revoke ability, this is fine. Not that it is my preferred method, but it is reasonable.

EA for example, let about a dozen major releases go for nearly a year before they finally offered revoke tools. If Batman has it, right off the bat (pun intended), then this is the responsible thing to do. Kudos.

jaywalker2309
17th Sep 2009, 07:49
The ability to revoke is actually built into the exe itself, just the creation of a dedicated tool makes it a bit easier to do..

hlhbk
17th Sep 2009, 09:24
Look Jay I am not trying to take your head off about this, so please don't get the wrong idea. I have no problem with Eidios trying to protect it's property, and I love the game (especially the new physx effects!). I just have never run into this except on very few games on Steam. I didn't know that you had to have the exact same digital release since the game is GFWL.

I guess my issue is that you look at other games that use GFWL (lets use Fallout 3 as am example since I now hold Rocksteady up there with Bethesda as my favorite developers) if there is activations it is across the board. Bethesda didn't use this at all with Fallout 3, with the digital release or with their disk based release.

I might be wrong here, but as someone who has always bought games and thinks its completely wrong to pirate games it has felt in recent years that companies are always preparing for the worst when it comes to piracy. I realize that it is a huge issue with today's games, and maybe I am idealistic, but to me the added content that is being released for Batman is the biggest deterrent against piracy, not DRM.

I have always felt that the quality of the product and the quality of the added content plays a very large part to get people who are on the fence about pirating or purchasing a game to purchase it. This is why I think that developers like Bethesda, Valve, and CD Projekt have the right idea. Release great added content, and don't put DRM on the product and that will have very much the same effect as activations on a product.

Regardless of all of this I thank you Jay for letting me know this. I will live with it, but I also wanted to make you sure and anyone at Eidos that see this thread know my feelings on this as well.

jaywalker2309
17th Sep 2009, 09:49
You may have read about the `moral code` soundbite that did the news circuit, this was related to a feature we get with using securom that lets us know when someone is using a pirated version of the game. This, linked with being a GFWL title, meant that we had to use this copy protection system for every digital version, meaning the online distributors couldnt use their own methods as would have broken the system.

Am guessing whilst Fallout 3 is a GFWL title its not using these traps in the code therefore Steam were able to put their own system on the exe.

As i keep repeating the disc based version of batman has no limitations at all.

matches81
17th Sep 2009, 11:26
As i keep saying the disc based version uses the disc as the encryption backbone, however on a digital master there is no physical item to protect against so it HAS to use some form of DRM system to ensure that 1 person doesnt just download it then distribute it freely. No one can argue that its WRONG that we are trying to ensure only people who pay can play the game. Also the limitation of installations HAS to be present on a digital master since again if there was no instant limit then people would just give out the key and we're back at the same situation with it being possible to freely distribute it.
This gets a bit philosophical, I know, but is DRM really necessary?
There are enough examples of products that are distributed digitally with quite a bit of success and don't "have" to use DRM. Perfect example currently: Pretty much the whole music industry has abandoned DRM for their digital distribution. Why? Because their customers didn't like it. Seemingly, it hasn't been their doom to do so, either.
GoG.com is constantly growing by selling old games without DRM, too.
True, a $50 game is something different than $5 or $10 classic or a $2 song, but it still begs the question: Is DRM really necessary? Noone ever really tried it without, except for some multiplayer-centered games (see Stardock).


Steam is different in how it works as you login to their servers so you are `tracked` that way (yes i know u can play offline but at somepoint you go online). They are the only online distributor who does it this way so are unique, however we have just 1 digital master and it fits into their system, all the other digital distributor just offer the installation and a key that unlocks the game. Cos the game is GFWL all versions have to match.
Thanks for the clarification, now I actually understand why the Steam version, too, has this additional DRM in it.

jaywalker2309
17th Sep 2009, 17:00
Steam updated now with revoke tool (check your tools tab)