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View Full Version : will physx work on ati cards when game comes out?



betelgeus
12th Sep 2009, 15:41
eidos have you updated anything to make all effects work with ati cards?

even tho i have ps3 version ill get pc for £20 on release day if so(just for higher res n such)

if not then why?.it works on ps3' lowly 7800gtx and xbox 360' ati card

capable heart
12th Sep 2009, 15:58
eidos have you updated anything to make all effects work with ati cards?

even tho i have ps3 version ill get pc for £20 on release day if so(just for higher res n such)

if not then why?.it works on ps3' lowly 7800gtx and xbox 360' ati card

It has NOTHING to do with Eidos. It is physically impossible for them to update what you're talking about.

Nvidia OWN the PhysX system, so of course they are not going to spend their time and money to program the hardware accelerated version of PhysX to run on ATI card hardware.

Sheesh. That would be like deliberately giving money to your competition for no reason.

It does not "work" on the PS3 and 360. The console versions of the games, the PS3 and 360 don't have the "Nvidia PhysX" effects, but you said they did. ???

betelgeus
12th Sep 2009, 16:01
i repeat it works on xbox 360 and that uses an ATI card plus it works on ps3'7800gtx which is lower than the 8800

capable heart
12th Sep 2009, 16:03
i repeat it works on xbox 360 and that uses an ATI card plus it works on ps3'7800gtx which is lower than the 8800

The console versions of the games do not use the special "PhysX" effects. Like cloth banners, breaking tiles, deforming smoke and steam, etc.

betelgeus
12th Sep 2009, 16:04
well when you zoom on the console version the background goes slighlty out of focus this only happens on the pc when physx is switched on so i presume that is a part of physx which works on consoles

capable heart
12th Sep 2009, 16:07
well when you zoom on the console version the background goes slighlty out of focus this only happens on the pc when physx is switched on so i presume that is a part of physx which works on consoles

Focusing blur is not a part of the "PhysX" effects. It is not even remotely connected to them.

Edit: I just checked the the PC DEMO. Zooming with focus blur 100% for sure works with PhysX off. I also have an ATI card, so I can't run them anyway.

You don't seem to realize, the "PhysX" effects are designed to make the interactions and motions of physical objects better. That's what they do, physical stuff, pieces of cloth, paper, moving steam, etc. Focus and blur on the screen are not physical objects.

betelgeus
12th Sep 2009, 16:12
yes i know its part of the unreal engine but you cant get it on pc without turning the physx on

capable heart
12th Sep 2009, 16:16
yes i know its part of the unreal engine but you cant get it on pc without turning the physx on

100% not true. I'm beginning to suspect this whole thread is a troll attempt.

I run the PC Demo, I have an ATI card, and PhysX effects are off.

I still get the focusing blur when zooming.

You don't know what PhysX is or else you wouldn't be saying these things.

lostsomething
12th Sep 2009, 17:22
PhysX = physics effects. Tearable cloth, mist that swirls around you, lots of breakable things. It has nothing to do with motion blur.


It has NOTHING to do with Eidos. It is physically impossible for them to update what you're talking about.

Nvidia OWN the PhysX system, so of course they are not going to spend their time and money to program the hardware accelerated version of PhysX to run on ATI card hardware.

Sheesh. That would be like deliberately giving money to your competition for no reason.

Not quite true, nVidia's offered and Ati's refused. The reason has to do with Ati not wanting to support an api that nVidia owns and would be free to tweak to run better on their hardware / worse on theirs.

Ati users probably will get PhysX support once nVidia ports it to OpenCL, which they'll probably do as soon as DX-compute Havok or whatever finally materializes.

betelgeus
12th Sep 2009, 17:40
in the first part of the demo turning physx on i see a cobweb by the joker qm and a swirl of smoke between theelectric pylons,but my fps drop from 90 to 12 even when not moving the camera,so it does work therefore software not hardware but why so hug a drop?

could someone with a console check if the same effects are there? my nephews got mine

trek554
12th Sep 2009, 17:45
in the first part of the demo turning physx on i see a cobweb by the joker qm and a swirl of smoke between theelectric pylons,but my fps drop from 90 to 12 even when not moving the camera,so it does work therefore software not hardware but why so hug a drop?

could someone with a console check if the same effects are there? my nephews got mine yes if you turn it on with an ATI card your cpu will have to do all the work. no cpu is strong enough to run full hardware physx effects. full hardware physx is designed to be run on a gpu not on the cpu.

capable heart
12th Sep 2009, 18:09
in the first part of the demo turning physx on i see a cobweb by the joker qm and a swirl of smoke between theelectric pylons,but my fps drop from 90 to 12 even when not moving the camera,so it does work therefore software not hardware but why so hug a drop?

could someone with a console check if the same effects are there? my nephews got mine

The PhysX effects are not in the console version. I have checked PS3 and 360 versions. Everyone has already known this since the game was announced. You must have missed the many many announcements.

Everyone knows it can run on the PC in software, we were only talking about cases of it running on hardware because software is too slow to work at a playable framerate.

You will notice that in my very first reply (2nd post in this thread) I said "hardware accelerated."

This is a serious question: Is English your first language?

betelgeus
12th Sep 2009, 18:34
nvidia purchased ageia 12 months after the 8800 came out so cant be extra hardware in the cards

trek554
12th Sep 2009, 18:39
nvidia purchased ageia 12 months after the 8800 came out so cant be extra hardware in the cards what?

betelgeus
12th Sep 2009, 18:44
i had a 8800gt ages ago then when nvidia bought aegia i had the option to download a driver that switched physx on(for sherlock holmes i think),therefore my hardware was made before nvidia aquired physx so it cant be hardware incluced on the card extra from an ati card can it.unless they broke into my house and pc.

Pbrad08
12th Sep 2009, 18:58
i had a 8800gt ages ago then when nvidia bought aegia i had the option to download a driver that switched physx on(for sherlock holmes i think),therefore my hardware was made before nvidia aquired physx so it cant be hardware incluced on the card extra from an ati card can it.unless they broke into my house and pc.

You are right that PhysX is not a hardware componenet. However, to use PhysX you need a GPU with CUDA.

trek554
12th Sep 2009, 19:05
i had a 8800gt ages ago then when nvidia bought aegia i had the option to download a driver that switched physx on(for sherlock holmes i think),therefore my hardware was made before nvidia aquired physx so it cant be hardware incluced on the card extra from an ati card can it.unless they broke into my house and pc. ageia had a ppu for physx but nvidia knew they could use a gpu to do a better job so the gpu itself is now the hardware. there are two ways to get hardware accelerated physx and thats either with the old physx ppu or with a cuda-enabled geforce gpu. now do you get it??

betelgeus
12th Sep 2009, 19:09
thanks,so back to my first post will eidos make all effects available on ati cards.

GuitarBat
12th Sep 2009, 19:16
I had a look at getting a cheap CUDA enabled nvidia GPU for PhysX because I have a few games that use it. I have an ATI card however it looks like Nvidia have programmed the drivers in such a way that if graphics are being rendered on a card other than Nvidia within the same PC, PhysX is automatically disabled:
http://www.ngohq.com/graphic-cards/16223-nvidia-disables-physx-when-ati-card-is-present.html

Just to warn you before you waste money on a card...

betelgeus
12th Sep 2009, 19:20
seeing as nvidia isnt the developer if eidos release this as it is im sure thye will be hit by many anti trust suits

trek554
12th Sep 2009, 19:28
thanks,so back to my first post will eidos make all effects available on ati cards.
are you really that stupid? we have just explained to you what is needed for hardware physx and then you ask the same dumb question again. hardware physx ONLY works on nvidia cards and ageia ppu so get that through your thick skull. also eidos doesnt have **** to do with what hardware physx can actually run on. :mad2:

betelgeus
12th Sep 2009, 19:54
youre not listening,the smoke in the begining and the cobweb by the joker question mark surely these are simple effects which can be turned on .theyre not even impressive or taxing.

The Coca Cola Company
12th Sep 2009, 21:47
If you think that they are not taxing turn on PhysX and enjoy your framerate. :rolleyes:

RYO_91
12th Sep 2009, 23:09
PhysX = physics effects. Tearable cloth, mist that swirls around you, lots of breakable things. It has nothing to do with motion blur.



Not quite true, nVidia's offered and Ati's refused. The reason has to do with Ati not wanting to support an api that nVidia owns and would be free to tweak to run better on their hardware / worse on theirs.

Ati users probably will get PhysX support once nVidia ports it to OpenCL, which they'll probably do as soon as DX-compute Havok or whatever finally materializes.

WTF? are you saying that the fuccking physx is going to be in opencl?
I dont know but i saw some videos of openCL and it is much much much better than physhietx

The Coca Cola Company
13th Sep 2009, 00:05
First of all swearing is not allowed here.

And nvidia hasn't confirmed that they plan to port PhysX to another framework:


Question to NVIDIA: Can PhysX run on OpenCL?

NVIDIA: Any language out there that promotes GPU computing is something we’re excited about. Hopefully you guys saw the press release we put out that talked about us being the first to deliver an OpenCL driver for developers. It’s one of the reasons Apple picked this top to bottom on their notebooks and a lot of their desktops because we have OpenCL support; we plan on supporting OpenCL. We’re working very closely with Microsoft on DirectX Compute, but we’re also working on our C implementation that runs on our CUDA hardware architecture. So CUDA will support all the languages. It’ll support C; it’ll support OpenCL; it’ll support DirectX Compute.

In terms of PhysX, right now we’ve got a pretty large, deep infrastructure already built with PhysX the way it is, the toolset that we have. We’ve got multi-platform support across Wii, Playstation3, Xbox 360 and even the iPhone now and now on the PC we support GPU, CPU and if people want, even the older PPU is still supported. So right now our plan is to just keep PhysX the way it is moving forward and support the developers the way we are today.

RYO_91
13th Sep 2009, 00:37
First of all swearing is not allowed here.

And nvidia hasn't confirmed that they plan to port PhysX to another framework:

thanks, i hope they dont do it, that would be like windows buying linux

The Coca Cola Company
13th Sep 2009, 01:34
Not sure what you mean or why you don't want them to do this, but whatever..

lostsomething
13th Sep 2009, 02:51
WTF? are you saying that the fuccking physx is going to be in opencl?
I dont know but i saw some videos of openCL and it is much much much better than physhietx

Kind of a weird thing to say, "OpenCL" is just a programming format that allows you to run programs on a gpu - it's not inherently anything. There shouldn't be any inherent difference between running PhysX on OpenCL or on CUDA other than that the later might perform a bit better on nVidia cards since it's presumably less abstracted.


First of all swearing is not allowed here.

And nvidia hasn't confirmed that they plan to port PhysX to another framework:


Nvidia has so far guarded its GPU PhysX technology behind a large CUDA-shaped wall, meaning that anyone who wants to use it has to use CUDA too. However, the company has revealed that this may not be the case in the future, as Nvidia is considering porting PhysX over to OpenCL; the API that’s also being used by AMD to accelerate Havok physics.

In a recent Q&A session to coincide with the launch of Nvidia’s APEX tools for games developers using PhysX, we took the opportunity to ask Nvidia’s director of product management for PhysX, Nadeem Mohammad, about whether there were any plans to port PhysX over to OpenCL.

Mohammad revealed that he wasn’t against the idea at all. “In the future it’s a possibility that we could use OpenCL,” Mohammad told us, but added that “at the moment CUDA works great.” Mohammad also pointed out that although Nvidia currently uses CUDA to accelerate PhysX on GPUs, the company’s “architecture allows for acceleration by other things like OpenCL.”

“Nvidia works very closely with The Khronos Group,” said Mohammad, explaining that “actually Neil Trevett is president of the group and he’s part of Nvidia - so we’ve been driving that standard also, and it’s an excellent standard.” What’s more, later on, Mohammad also described Nvidia’s future plans for PhysX by saying “as and when we do move to OpenCL,” which implies little doubt that Nvidia is seriously considering this as an option.

So would this mean that owners of ATI cards could also take advantage of PhysX? Theoretically, yes. Of course, Nvidia has publicly said that it will work with ATI on CUDA-accelerated PhysX for over a year, but it’s an offer that ATI has yet to accept. However, by using an open-standard API such as OpenCL, it’s possible that ATI cards could support PhysX and miss out CUDA altogether. -- http://www.bit-tech.net/news/hardware/2009/03/27/nvidia-considers-porting-physx-to-opencl/1

Aside from dropping such hints though it's a simple matter of practicallity, if they want PhysX to stay relevant once a non-proprietary alternative appears they'll either port it or it'll die out.

Moleculor
14th Sep 2009, 16:09
PS: Nvidia were the ones who came in and programmed the PhysX stuff in the game, not the developers (though I'm sure they helped a lot).

The Coca Cola Company
14th Sep 2009, 17:09
No...

Billetwound
14th Sep 2009, 19:19
Just some info to read over, Here is a page for a BFG PhysX 128MB PCI card. It describes exactly what PhysX is and does for a computer by taking the load off the CPU. This is also a stand alone PCI card, So it might work for ATI users to get PhysX in their game... only 2 problems i see are that i don't really know what kinda memory a PhysX card should have for a game like this. And the other problem is that i don't see them for sale anywhere, so you might have to look on ebay for 1. :rasp:

http://www.bfgtech.com/bfgrphysx128p.aspx

Brokn68
15th Sep 2009, 03:13
When I went to install the demo, it asked for to install PhysX? There was no option to continue the installation? I d/l the demo from Steam and want to try and possibly buy this game. If it wont work with my 4870, I'm not going to buy it.

trek554
15th Sep 2009, 03:21
When I went to install the demo, it asked for to install PhysX? There was no option to continue the installation? I d/l the demo from Steam and want to try and possibly buy this game. If it wont work with my 4870, I'm not going to buy it. it probably wants to dl the physx files whether you can do the hardware acceleration or not. if you are asking if you can run hardware physx on your ATI card then no. turning it on in the launcher will make it run on your cpu which will not be playable.

Brokn68
15th Sep 2009, 03:31
it probably wants to dl the physx files whether you can do the hardware acceleration or not. if you are asking if you can run hardware physx on your ATI card then no. turning it on in the launcher will make it run on your cpu which will not be playable.
I know physx wont run on ATI, but will game run on ATI w/o it?

trek554
15th Sep 2009, 03:48
I know physx wont run on ATI, but will game run on ATI w/o it? yes of course