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View Full Version : Player Tailoring For DX3 - Do You Want It?



dark_angel_7
4th Sep 2009, 12:42
I know there has been a lot of talk for a long while about regenerating health, etc. I thought I would make this poll so that hopefully EM/Rene might take a look and see the results of what fans want. Anyway here goes.

In Tomb Raider: Underworld there was an option in the settings called "Player Tailoring" and this was actually a response to classic Tomb Raider fans who had been annoyed for sometime that the latest Tomb Raider games were too full of hints, tips, and other nonsense for casual gamers. Crystal Dynamics added this allowing players to tailor the gameplay elements to their suiting.

A description by Eric Lindstrom (then creative director of Tomb Raider: Underworld but was laid off earlier this year) explains the feature clearly enough:



There are three aspects of Player Tailoring, as follows:

The first aspect is about immersion. You can separately choose to display or hide the following types of meta-information: whether reticules appear on enemies during combat, whether helper buttons appear when interacts are possible, and whether training panels appear telling you how to perform new mechanics. Some people like having meta-information displayed to keep things moving along, and some people dislike the intrusion these meta-displays represent. Both types of players can have what they want.

The second aspect is about physical challenges. Rather than having a single difficulty setting (though the game does start out with one that you can fine tune later) there are multiple settings to tailor the action elements of the game. You can set how healthy enemies are (how much damage kills them), how healthy Lara is (how much damage it takes to kill her), how much ammunition you can carry, and how quickly you have to react to saving grabs when you lose your grip.

...

The third aspect is about mental challenges. At any point a player can call up Field Assistance and hear Lara give a hint or a task. A hint tells you, among all the different things in front of you, which would be a fruitful area to focus on. A task is something you can do that will advance you some amount. There is no concept of “When will my next hint be available?” because anytime you ask for assistance, Lara will always tell you to do something you haven’t yet done.

...

Oh, the one thing the game will not tell you is how to get anywhere. Field Assistance will tell you what to do but not where to go or how to climb there. That’s up to you. Good thing Lara has a sonar device in her PDA, which you can use to map out the ruins in detail and help you navigate.

That is, if you want to. :)

Cheers,

Eric



Source : http://www.tombraider.com/server.php?show=ConBlogEntry.21&outputLang=Tr5

I think the whole implementation of Player Tailoring in Tomb Raider: Underworld was a good idea. OK, its by no means the all in one miracle solution for anyone and everyone and every game but it does help to make the game harder for 'hard-core' gamers or slightly easier for the 'casual gamer'. So here is a screen of the tailoring:

http://img237.imageshack.us/img237/596/playertailoringvi1.jpg

OK as you can see options are limited and that was the only problem for Player Tailoring for Tomb Raider: Underworld - 3 or 4 measly options weren't enough for us older fans. But for DX3 I think they could easily put this feature in and increase the amount of options to maybe 9 or 10 or whatever else. It might not be the best solution ever but I think it could really work as long as its put in with lots of options to make the game harder/easier. This way older fans can enjoy a longer, more challenging, immersing game whilst new fans can get a flashy, fun, not-so-challenging game. If Eidos Montreal really want to please old fans and get new ones in to make DX3 a success (and this is a hard task lets not forget) then this is the way to do IMHO. :) Just my thoughts anyway.

Vote away.

El_Bel
4th Sep 2009, 13:11
Of course we want it. No, WE NEED IT!!

Lady_Of_The_Vine
4th Sep 2009, 13:38
Interesting post. :cool:
I voted for first option because I think it is a good idea/compromise. :thumb:

Whether this feature will actually be 'needed' is the only question in my mind, seeing as we do not yet know how the whole system works. Waiting patiently to know more...

Sabretooth1
4th Sep 2009, 16:38
This feature has the potential to be the best thing that's happened to games in years.

Blade_hunter
4th Sep 2009, 18:15
I choose the first option, this perhaps should give to players the choice to play with some features and even adjust the challenge, (remember system shock 1, SOF 1&2)
I wanted this since the beginning, just to allow more hardcore players and the general public to enjoy the same game by tweaking some elements

Nathan2000
4th Sep 2009, 20:00
I'm not sure if we really need dozens of options. DX1&2 had 4 difficulty settings and it was enough. If the game was too hard, you could tone it down. If too easy, picking higher difficulty level provided better challenge.

How about combining simplicity and complexity? Having 4 difficulty levels: Easy, Medium, Hard and Custom and "Anvanced" menu for tweaking. Not quite original, but hey...

Oh yes, and it should be adjustable during the playthrough.

Necros
4th Sep 2009, 20:07
I voted for first option because I think it is a good idea/compromise. :thumb:
This. :cool:

Oh yes, and it should be adjustable during the playthrough.
And this. :thumb:

minus0ne
5th Sep 2009, 02:39
I welcome adjustable settings for those who want it (although I highly doubt TRU was the first game with "Tailoring") but I also prefer the original levels (from Easy to Realistic) to remain. I don't think you should be able to change it mid-game though, where's the fun in that?

And the "Hints system" sounds absolutely awful, I hope you weren't proposing that for DX3?

Blade_hunter
5th Sep 2009, 05:00
One of the firsts game with tailoring is probably the first system shock (1994), but I think it's even older than that.

thomasaquinas
5th Sep 2009, 07:31
I'd rather they just made a game that wasn't **** in the first place.

But seeing as the chances of that seem rather unlikely, I voted for option 1 - allowing us to re-balance it properly for them.

Blade_hunter
5th Sep 2009, 07:35
I think this is the best mean to fit with most people tastes :D

Grimesy
5th Sep 2009, 09:34
Just need one option: Regen health: High, Medium, Low and OFF!!
(Balancing issues blablablah, remember the no-item run of DX1?)

raz3r
5th Sep 2009, 10:54
Voted the first one, it could be like a racing simulation (sorry for the bad example ^^) where you can change almost everything in the settings.

gamer0004
5th Sep 2009, 12:31
The Nameless Mod did this well IMHO. Operation Flashpoint is another example.
However, EM must make sure that the options are self-explanatory; for instance, in OFP there was an option called "super-AI". I thought this meant the AI would become smarter when enabled, but it just made them ridiculously accurate.
Also, they should be careful that there aren't too many options, because then the player probably can't be bothered.

Necros
5th Sep 2009, 12:37
I don't think you should be able to change it mid-game though, where's the fun in that?
If you don't want to change it mid-game, then don't, but let others experiment to find the right settings, or change them is they need a bigger challenge or if it's too difficult.

And the "Hints system" sounds absolutely awful, I hope you weren't proposing that for DX3?
Make it optional and it's not a problem. ;) It could help new Deus Ex players.

Ninjerk
5th Sep 2009, 17:43
If you don't want to change it mid-game, then don't, but let others experiment to find the right settings, or change them is they need a bigger challenge or if it's too difficult.

Make it optional and it's not a problem. ;) It could help new Deus Ex players.

Even better: Package someone from the development team with every game so they can play it for them, too! When the game is over they will be so proud to have accomplished something.

El_Bel
5th Sep 2009, 17:55
Hey man, its very good to be able to change difficulty settings in mid-game.

I played CoD4 on the hardest difficulty and on the last mission i was killed all the time and i could not finish the game. I got frustrated because the only way i could play it on easier difficulty was to start all over again. I never finished the game.

ArcR
5th Sep 2009, 18:42
I prefer the difficulty setting a la cakewalk/normal/hard/realistic. The reason being is that if I control the details of the world it becomes less immersive. I prefer to be thrown into the realistic mode and adapt to however it may be.

IOOI
6th Oct 2009, 18:05
We don't know much about RH and localised damage systems but if it's somehow similar to what we've been discussing recently than it would be nice to have control over:
-the # of bulllets/hits that affects RH performance;
-RH rate;
-healing rate provided by medbots;
-weapon loss when hit on the arm/hand;
-aiming accuracy - during the game and when the arm/hand is severely damaged.

rokstrombo
9th Oct 2009, 05:55
I would prefer not to have multiple difficulty settings in Deus Ex 3, unless higher settings somehow allow access to new areas. I have played very few shooters that were as enjoyable on the highest difficulty setting as they were on the default setting. I think this is because the levels were designed for the default settings, and tweaking a few basic parameters did not seem offer a significantly different challenge without detracting from the tension or realism, or by forcing the player to repeat fairly mindless action sequences over and over due to death.

Unless the higher difficulty settings can offer different challenges, I don't see the point. This is especially important in a game like Deus Ex where the player generally spends as much time exploring or investigating as they do fighting. Giving enemies better accuracy or more hit points will affect the player's experience only half the time. The rest of the time they will be traversing the same areas, collecting the same items, reading the same texts, partaking in more or less the same conversations, etc. There are only so many times that this can be rewarding for the player. I would much prefer that the difficulty level provide enough challenge and depth for experienced players, rather than optionally allowing the player to tweak a few basic parameters that at times may make the experience less enjoyable. Higher challenges would then be offered by optional tasks in new areas, which could potentially offer some new experiences during repeat play-throughs.

Blade_hunter
9th Oct 2009, 20:58
With player tailoring you can adjust the global challenge and just play the game with them, also in therms of modding if they add a system like the mutators in the UT series the tailoring can be expanded up to a high point.

IOOI
9th Oct 2009, 21:57
I would prefer not to have multiple difficulty settings in Deus Ex 3, unless higher settings somehow allow access to new areas. I have played very few shooters that were as enjoyable on the highest difficulty setting as they were on the default setting. I think this is because the levels were designed for the default settings, and tweaking a few basic parameters did not seem offer a significantly different challenge without detracting from the tension or realism, or by forcing the player to repeat fairly mindless action sequences over and over due to death.

Unless the higher difficulty settings can offer different challenges, I don't see the point. This is especially important in a game like Deus Ex where the player generally spends as much time exploring or investigating as they do fighting. Giving enemies better accuracy or more hit points will affect the player's experience only half the time. The rest of the time they will be traversing the same areas, collecting the same items, reading the same texts, partaking in more or less the same conversations, etc. There are only so many times that this can be rewarding for the player. I would much prefer that the difficulty level provide enough challenge and depth for experienced players, rather than optionally allowing the player to tweak a few basic parameters that at times may make the experience less enjoyable. Higher challenges would then be offered by optional tasks in new areas, which could potentially offer some new experiences during repeat play-throughs.

Yeah, you have a good point here.
Last day I was finishing CoD2 in regular difficulty setting, then I started to think precisely like what you stated here. If I had to play in a harder difficulty setting there should be less limiting obstacles in the map (e.g: removing some barbwired fences so you can roam the level as you want) or new maps available - though I've yet to play in a higher difficulty setting to se if something changes.
I know that CoD2 is supossed to be a linear game, but such small changes would make up for the use of RH in that game and would turn the game a little more enjoyable and tactical.

Nevertheless your thinking is a good one.

Gizmostuff
10th Oct 2009, 05:28
Since I don't want this game postponed any longer than it probably already has, I would say 3 to 4 would be good. Anymore than that and it may take away time from the game they could be concentrating on elsewhere imo.

Good poll though OP.

gamer0004
10th Oct 2009, 06:02
I would prefer not to have multiple difficulty settings in Deus Ex 3, unless higher settings somehow allow access to new areas. I have played very few shooters that were as enjoyable on the highest difficulty setting as they were on the default setting. I think this is because the levels were designed for the default settings, and tweaking a few basic parameters did not seem offer a significantly different challenge without detracting from the tension or realism, or by forcing the player to repeat fairly mindless action sequences over and over due to death.

Unless the higher difficulty settings can offer different challenges, I don't see the point. This is especially important in a game like Deus Ex where the player generally spends as much time exploring or investigating as they do fighting. Giving enemies better accuracy or more hit points will affect the player's experience only half the time. The rest of the time they will be traversing the same areas, collecting the same items, reading the same texts, partaking in more or less the same conversations, etc. There are only so many times that this can be rewarding for the player. I would much prefer that the difficulty level provide enough challenge and depth for experienced players, rather than optionally allowing the player to tweak a few basic parameters that at times may make the experience less enjoyable. Higher challenges would then be offered by optional tasks in new areas, which could potentially offer some new experiences during repeat play-throughs.

But some players do want the exploration, without having to care too much about combat. Also, the player can decide for himself whether or not he wants to do (difficult) side quests.

Igoe
10th Oct 2009, 09:16
I have never played DX on anything other than "Realistic." I don't know why, but the concept of highly magnified damage appeals to me, especially on my character as I want to be punished for making a mistake and alerting 20 guards who promptly come and wallpaper the area in my innards.


Some people, however, don't like this. Since tweaking the damage is as easy as modifying a base value, I can't imagine multiple difficulties would be difficult.

If there's one thing I’m certain of it's that gamers will accomplish any task set before them, without fail, and with amazing flair and attention to detail. You don't even need to test the cranked damage values, just do whatever and let the players take the rest.

Anyone who has ever beaten Max Payne 1 without any damage taken knows what I'm talking about.

SageSavage
10th Oct 2009, 09:22
Yes, I am for for player tailoring in combination with a set of presets (aka pre-configured profiles) for the usual difficulty levels.

Blade_hunter
10th Oct 2009, 23:11
To me the difficulty settings are just here to parameter the challenge with the same gameplay elements the gameplay elements themselves IMO are much more to fit with people's tastes.
I have a game with the option called "enable ballistics" who changes the hitscan bullets with non hitscan bullets (that mean we have "projectile delay" ) and enable the wall penetration.
In therms of difficulty changes it doesn't affect much the difficulty on itself but the gameplay is changed by some ways, it will be easier to shoot at close range against a moving target rather than at long range with slug based weapons.

It's only a "realism" option but it have also an effect in therms of performance (it needs more resources)
but there is also arcade options like regenerating health, no reloads, no recoil management, etc ...

I think some persons want to play with an other health system rather than with RH, no ?

IOOI
12th Oct 2009, 16:03
Rockstrombo's conception could be considered if: game experience is tailored for new and old players (e.g: new players, that don't know the story/universe of DX, receive hints in order to enjoy a more linear gameplay); there are some challenges like time-trials; there is some content to be unlocked (artwork, behind the scenes videos,...).
But if we only have one difficulty level there should be some achievements in order to get the locked content.

B0b_P@ge
28th Oct 2009, 00:54
This is an excellent compromise for console & pc users... I definitely support this and would be happy to compromise. I want to see a 'Regenerative Health ON / OFF' option when the game comes out.

(The only health regeneration I'll want to use is the nano-aug option)

rhalibus
28th Oct 2009, 06:39
In Deus Ex: Invisible War you could edit one of the user init files and make all kinds of adjustments to the game; like the font size, damage modifier, hud info, etc.

I was frustrated with the unrealistic toughness of the NPCs in the game--even on the realistic setting--so I edited the damage modifier to the degree that one or two shots to either myself or any NPC would be lethal, and a head shot would always be a kill shot. It turned DX:IW into a completely new game--intense and realistic; where I had to use a lot more stealth and forethought to achieve my goals, knowing that one shot could kill me but I could also drop any NPC very quickly.

DX3 should definitely have a way to modify the damage in the game, for both NPCs and the player. I know a lot of developers think that if NPCs are too easy to kill then the game will be short, but that never was a problem for games like Ghost Recon and Rainbow Six...