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HeartlessSystem
3rd Sep 2009, 15:08
Hello all! You people seem sane enough around here, so I would like to pose the question above to you.
I'm a (relativaly) young gamer, and as such, it annoys the hell out of me when there is an awsome game an I cant ******* play it due to their age ratings. :mad2: you could think I'm just a annoying kid, but I think the age ratings people need to be more lenient. kids mature earleir then ever now, so I think the age ratings need to reflect as such.
Your thoughts?

JackWinz
3rd Sep 2009, 15:15
I think when kids are mature enough to play games like this they shouldn't have much of a problem if their parents can recognise that they are.
Anyway, no kid should be shorthanded when it comes to BATMAN.
EVERY KID NEEDS SOME BATMANZ!! =D

HeartlessSystem
3rd Sep 2009, 15:20
I think when kids are mature enough to play games like this they shouldn't have much of a problem if their parents can recognise that they are.
Anyway, no kid should be shorthanded when it comes to BATMAN.
EVERY KID NEEDS SOME BATMANZ!! =D

true enough :lol: I got batman anyway, my dad read the comics....
anyways, its just annoying when you have to drag your parents along to buy anything.
Die Hard is an 18, but i think it should be a 15 at the most....

Hall E Woode
3rd Sep 2009, 16:01
Desensitization does not equal maturity.

SolidSnake_123
3rd Sep 2009, 17:25
true enough :lol: I got batman anyway, my dad read the comics....
anyways, its just annoying when you have to drag your parents along to buy anything.
Die Hard is an 18, but i think it should be a 15 at the most....

whoa man, die hard?! The ones from the 90's, holy crap man, that was like the most inappropriate movie I ever watched when I was younger, heh. I think the 3rd should be R, so should 2 and 1.

JackWinz
3rd Sep 2009, 18:45
YEs, the only DieHard that's REALLY suitable for a PG-13 kinda deal is the 4th one.

SolidSnake_123
3rd Sep 2009, 18:55
YEs, the only DieHard that's REALLY suitable for a PG-13 kinda deal is the 4th one.

Yeah, but the 4th uncensored, is sweet, so is the first 3 "Yippe Ki aye mother****

butterskenny
6th Sep 2009, 00:36
I think that kids think they are mature when in reality they are still just kids who laugh at farts. If they are mature enough to play M games their parents will notice and buy them one.

Marcus
7th Sep 2009, 10:28
It's a sad day indeed when anybody thinks they're too old to laugh at farts. Farts are nature's comedic gold.

batfan08
7th Sep 2009, 15:22
I find that kids will be exposed to it,one way or another,so they might as well cut it out entirely.If a kid walks into a store,intent on buying grand theft auto,he's probably gonna walk out with grand theft auto,parent or not.I'm 14,and I rent movies,I read mature comics,all in all,it's just a matter of who can handle it,and who can't.Oh,and Die Hard is awesome.

http://www.courier-journal.com/blogs/vel16/uploaded_images/ho-ho-ho-727472.jpg

:p

Batman The Trailer Hunter
7th Sep 2009, 16:25
Hello all! You people seem sane enough around here, so I would like to pose the question above to you.
I'm a (relativaly) young gamer, and as such, it annoys the hell out of me when there is an awsome game an I cant ******* play it due to their age ratings. :mad2: you could think I'm just a annoying kid, but I think the age ratings people need to be more lenient. kids mature earleir then ever now, so I think the age ratings need to reflect as such.
Your thoughts?

1. Kids DO NOT mature earlier than ever! In fact they are more spoiled, ignorant, arogant, and learn to much to fast.
2. There is a reason why age rating cant be based of maturity. im 15 and i took a maturity test and it said i was 30. Does that mean i need to watch XXX videos because im "mature" enough?


P.s I think that todays PG-13 should be more like a PG-15. I remember when StarWars III was goina be R because of Anakin at the end (its due to the time of intense graphicness), and in Gi Joe stuff like that happened all over the movie. And movies like Watchmen and Bruno would have been NC-17 like 5 years ago. Most video games have it right, and it shouldnt be changed!

Old_BenKenobi
7th Sep 2009, 17:06
I think they should be abolished. Or at least, make as guidances, not ******* rules. Limiting the age for certain video games and movies is bull****.

Batman The Trailer Hunter
7th Sep 2009, 17:34
I think they should be abolished. Or at least, make as guidances, not ******* rules. Limiting the age for certain video games and movies is bull****.

See what i mean? I mature person would realize there is a very good reason why these "rules" are set in place. It probable would be better if they where guidlines but since no one is mature enough to follow such guidlines they become rules.


Btw swearing doesnt help you prove your point at all.

Old_BenKenobi
7th Sep 2009, 17:48
Nobody should have the right to tell people "oh, you're too young" when it comes to buying a videogame or seeing a movie. Who can say "This game has swearing in it and some violence, so you have to be 13 to buy it." or "This game has nudity and gore so you have to be 17 to buy it"? That's a load of crap. That's deciding for other people what they can and cannot buy based on a very vague measurement of maturity. So once you turn 17 you're magically mature enough to handle an M game? Bull****! Look at me! I'm 19 and clearly immature, yet I can go buy an M game, buy a porno, buy a case of beer, and go to the titty bar. If anything, my swearing helps my case, since it shows that age is no guarantee for maturity. Regardless, it is nobody's right to tell people what videogames they can and cannot buy and what movies they can and cannot see.

Batman The Trailer Hunter
7th Sep 2009, 17:51
That is simply because people ignore the rules and guidlines making them nearly obsolete, adn just downright unhelpfull.

P.S just because you "can" do somthing doesnt mean you need to!

Old_BenKenobi
7th Sep 2009, 18:01
The point of the guidelines should be for parents so they know what they're buying their kid, not to stop a 16 year old from playing GTA.

And who said anything about need?

butterskenny
7th Sep 2009, 19:06
1. Kids DO NOT mature earlier than ever! In fact they are more spoiled, ignorant, arogant, and learn to much to fast.




Yes! Thank you!

KillerCroc
7th Sep 2009, 19:43
In some cases it is a bit strict. And it really depends on your maturity and what your parents think of you. I let my son play Killzone 2 recently, I felt he was mature enough to handle it. Just talk to your parents about it. They might understand.

batfan08
7th Sep 2009, 19:53
I don't know.In some ways,I agree with The DLC Hunter because honestly,it seems like kids are growing up too fast these days,but at the same time,Old_BenKenobi also has a point in saying that just because you're old enough,doesn't mean you're mature enough.In any case,Batman:The DLC Hunter,as far as your statement about the content of films like Watchmen and Bruno go,I find that point invalid,due to the fact that alot of these kids are experiencing these things first-hand.I go to school in a nice,suburban neighborhood and yet,the kids talk about drugs,and sex.I don't think it's right,I don't agree with it,and in fact,I'm appalled by it,but honestly,one way or another,kids will be exposed to it.

HeartlessSystem
7th Sep 2009, 19:57
well, thanks for the responses, nice to see what others think.
anyway...
DIE HARD ROCKS!!!!
:rasp: :lol:

Old_BenKenobi
7th Sep 2009, 19:59
I think its bizzare how you can have very violent content and get a PG-13, but if you drop more than one F-Bomb it's an R. And if theres a pair of boobies? R. To the MPAA, violence is more appropriate than profanity and nudity. And yet violence is the only one of those three that is actually harmful to other people, and both profanity and nudity have absolutely NO reason to be taboo.

SolidSnake_123
7th Sep 2009, 23:18
Yes... Die Hard is classic, the first action movie I had ever watched when I was younger, #1 when I was like 5, crazy huh?
But on the point I think that ratings should be stricter, I mean come on.... kids get influences because of these things, and I hate how our society is becoming.... all kids talk about these days are sex, money and alcohol, and I'm just outta middle school... so come on... society is becoming terrible in my opinion, because of all this porno crap, and bars when your 17 or 14 or what ever, I hate it, but this is how kids act, which in my opinion is a bit stupid.

Old_BenKenobi
7th Sep 2009, 23:27
I blame the rap music. :p

I will say, however, that society is improving.

SolidSnake_123
7th Sep 2009, 23:29
I blame the rap music. :p

I will say, however, that society is improving.

Yeah man Rap has definitely done it, but I mean look, in my school I see so many kids getting into drugs, smoking and all that crap, even online people were talking about selling drugs, and this is a big part of my school, and a few others, I think the older society is getting better but the younger seems to be struggling.

batfan08
7th Sep 2009, 23:49
Yeah man Rap has definitely done it, but I mean look, in my school I see so many kids getting into drugs, smoking and all that crap, even online people were talking about selling drugs, and this is a big part of my school, and a few others, I think the older society is getting better but the younger seems to be struggling.

I listened to a friends ipod at school and I have to agree about rap,it wasn't even about gangstaz or drugs,just explicit lyrics describing sex.I personally am more of a bob dylan guy myself.:p

SolidSnake_123
7th Sep 2009, 23:52
I listened to a friends ipod at school and I have to agree about rap,it wasn't even about gangstaz or drugs,just explicit lyrics describing sex.I personally am more of a bob dylan guy myself.:p

Yeah man! I like old school rock, 80's metal, 90's pun, etc. Rap just completely ruined society in a way... and no I'm not a white guy who hates rap because of "Profanity" I'm half black and White so I'm not being bias at all.:thumb:

Old_BenKenobi
7th Sep 2009, 23:59
Teenagers have always been getting ****ed up on stuff. This generation is no different.

SolidSnake_123
8th Sep 2009, 00:00
Teenagers have always been getting ****ed up on stuff. This generation is no different.

Yeah but how bout back in early 60's and 50's? They were the good wholesome years.

Old_BenKenobi
8th Sep 2009, 00:07
There were still bad seeds. Drinking, smoking reefer, racing. Not to mention the total prejudice towards blacks.

Things just seem so bad now because we're in the midst of it. The nastiness in the past fades with time.

batfan08
8th Sep 2009, 00:11
Through it all,teenagers will always be rebels.

SolidSnake_123
8th Sep 2009, 00:12
There were still bad seeds. Drinking, smoking reefer, racing. Not to mention the total prejudice towards blacks.

Things just seem so bad now because we're in the midst of it. The nastiness in the past fades with time.

Yeah your sorta right man, but is sucks. I just sorta wish rap was like it was in the 80's, not so frekken dirty.:mad2::mad2::mad2::mad2::mad2::hmm:

Old_BenKenobi
8th Sep 2009, 00:16
Through it all,teenagers will always be rebels.

Indeed. It's the hormones.

Fairthe
8th Sep 2009, 01:36
I'm young, and I have to agree with one point made in this thread, most kids nowadays are ignorant, and immature. Go to my school, and pick out one kid who doesn't think they're entitled to the world, or one who actually realizes how terrible the world is today. Best guess says you'll find them in short supply in most parts of the world. Most. I also agree that it depends more on who can handle it, and who can't. It doesn't matter how old you are, if your sanity is holding on by a thread, one game or movie could tip you off the edge. And if you can handle it, congratulations. If not, then wait until you can. As some have said in this thread, your parents notice when you're ready for things like that...except for the occasional overbearing parent, which is another problem nowadays, but that's another rant for another day.

Ddvw123abc
8th Sep 2009, 02:56
lol my six year old brother played and beat Batman:AA by himself lol

The_Mad_Batter
8th Oct 2010, 02:56
Time to revive this thing...


I believe ratings are WAY too lenient. I mean., GTA should have a Adult rating, not a mature. I mean, come on, any game where you hijack cars and commits crimes for fun HAS to be censored. There's been lawsuits over teenagers who've commited MURDER under the influence of this game.

The_Hylden
8th Oct 2010, 03:42
On the subject of today's society and how it compares to that of the 50's and prior: today's society is much, MUCH worse regarding guns, drugs, murders, violence towards others, and all manner of bad. You may think "Oh, it was bad then; we just think it's worse now 'cus we're living it." No. Some people used reefer, but it wasn't as profound. Drugs of all kinds are shipped here in the USA from other countries in much, MUCH more increased quantities and especially hard drugs are far more recent and far too profound now. Harder opiates and heroin wasn't an open problem, like now. Far fewer of the populous was using stuff like that, or morphine, and it certainly wasn't anything CLOSE to what we have in refined cocaine, heroin, meth, and now people being retards and using canned aresols, LSD, or worse, and such to get high... Also, the level of violent crimes has dramatically increased from the 50's, 60's, and through the 70's. It then really soured through the 80's and 90's, before tapering back only slightly. Now, it's back up. I'm talking murders and all manner of crimes, such as rape, or aggravated assault. The thing is, no-one used guns on one another back then. No-one was quick to kill someone over a pack of cigarettes, or for two dollars back then. Even when such acts as mafia killings, or robbers like Bonny and Clyde and Dillenger -- the only real gun-related violence going on -- happened back then, it was isolated and not one tenth the problem it is now. I'm giving you a recount of both statistics and my own dad and others of his generation. My dad grew up in what were considered poor neighborhoods (the projects) of Baltimore. Born in '37, he's seen it all. Those same neighborhoods of Baltimore now are the worst in the city, but even if they were rough then, people could actually have their doors unlocked at night (in the summer, without air conditioning, you'd have to have windows and doors open to get air). Rough gangs of kids might get into trouble, like he did, but they solved things with fights with their fists, and that was that and they weren't "gangs" like now, just some kids that stuck together. Gangs are true gangs, organized and run like little mafias; they kill each other and innocents over nothing, and pack better weaponry than cops now. So, don't kid yourselves. We're living pretty much a lie, thinking things are just the way they've always been. As free a society as we like to think ourselves, we've been complacent and let our own society really degrade over the decades and it's certainly not safe to walk streets even in the daytime in the cities, let alone at night. None of that is right and none of that is as it's always been.

You toss in the rude, disrespectful ways people treat one another now, when common courtesy and decency are all but a laughable, ridiculed fantasy, and you have even more of the problem that is totally a spurn of recent decades, only ever getting worse. Profanity was not used in family settings, in company, and certainly wasn't thought of as nothing at all. Hell, even back in the Wild West days, the roughest ombres and outlaws knew enough not to curse in front of a lady. Ladies curse worse than guys now. It does make a difference. The way you conduct yourselves toward each other is directly reflective of the amount of respect you have for them, and yourselves. It's the apathy and "emo" woe is me, this world sucks mentality that doesn't help. Nor does a slew of things like the way rap has gone, the way other forms of music have also fallen to mediocrity, and the downturn of entertainment like TV, which only promotes outrageous and ridiculing acts to get our desensitized attention (having a lack of skill to write much else; reality TV is like a cancer on TV).

Before all of this technology, which I use and love for what it does and can be, people actually connected more with each other, had to rely more on each other, and respected each others' lives, the community at large, and their very existences, more so than now. There's a real disconnect from the actuality of life, when it all can be turned off for texting and internet chat.

Sorry, but society is basically at a crossroads right now. It can get worse, sure (we can become a Third World Country, I suppose), but there's a point when people have had enough of it getting worse. With the failing economy and reality of life hitting home more, you'll see more people waking up from the apathy that this is how it is and we can't do anything about it. Well, yes, everyone can, if they want it badly enough. And this country shouldn't have cities and rural suburbs with people living the way they are, crime and societal ruin happening the way it is. Life is hard, and certainly it was never a picnic, but this crap happening now is a product of communities and government LETTING it happen, watching as things gradually got worse and worse, to the point a lot of disgruntled just go on thinking it's always been like this and that's that. Well, no; it hasn't.

GOGO
8th Oct 2010, 04:54
I listened to a friends ipod at school and I have to agree about rap,it wasn't even about gangstaz or drugs,just explicit lyrics describing sex.I personally am more of a bob dylan guy myself.:p
Agreed with this guy. Screw rap music, a majority of the lyrics in all the songs is meaningless and trash.

mwkcope
8th Oct 2010, 05:00
Agreed with this guy. Screw rap music, a majority of the lyrics in all the songs is meaningless and trash.

This.

Old_BenKenobi
8th Oct 2010, 06:05
Time to revive this thing...


I believe ratings are WAY too lenient. I mean., GTA should have a Adult rating, not a mature. I mean, come on, any game where you hijack cars and commits crimes for fun HAS to be censored. There's been lawsuits over teenagers who've commited MURDER under the influence of this game.

You're a fool.

Tell me how many of those lawsuits have ended with it being proven that playing GTA or any violent videogame makes people violent. I'll save you the trouble: NONE. All this "violent videogames make violent kids" bull is just a load of hogwash spouted from the mouths of weakminded uber-conservative ignorant dumbasses who like to tell other people what to do and will do anything they can to put a ban on what they consider offensive. Classically the target has been rock music. In the 80s it was joined by pornography. And in the wake of games like Doom, Wolfenstein and Duke Nukem, videogames have been a target too. All of it is 100% bull****. Nothing someone listens to, watches or plays will remove their conscience and their morals. What really causes that is an unhappy homelife. Parents just have a habit of refusing to acknowledge their own failures and blame it on whatever is convenient. "Oh, Johnny wasn't unhappy with his home life, he shot himself in the face because of Ozzy Osbourne!" Get out of here with that tripe.

Nothing should be censored. If someone wants to make a movie and show it in a theatre they should be able to. If someone wants to make a videogame and sell it in a store they should be able to. If someone wants to make a porno mag and stick it on a magazine rack they should be able to. Its up to the parents to teach their children what they should and shouldn't do and for their parents. If an eight year old wants to walk into Wal-Mart and walk out with Grand Theft Auto the only people who have the right to say "NO" are his parents. Not the government and not sham organizations like the ESRB.

Jayngo
8th Oct 2010, 12:01
Old BenKenobi said in part:
"just a load of hogwash spouted from the mouths of weakminded uber-conservative ignorant dumbasses"

Hahaha. That was EPICALLY put my friend.

While agree with mostly ALL of your points, I DO disagree with this "Nothing should be censored." Censorship still must take place as really young, developing minds don't need to be overloaded with all the sex, violence, and complete demonic stuff in the world today. I do agree that parents need to take RESPONSIBILITY for THEIR actions in raising their children and stop using the "easy" way out like you said "Oh, Johnny wasn't unhappy with his home life, he shot himself in the face because of Ozzy Osbourne!" (or enter said video game in place of Ozzy).

While I think the games are for the most part properly censored with the correct ratings, the real problems lie with the ones selling the products. I can count on my hand (singular) the number of times I have been "carded" for buying a "mature" game. THAT needs to be corrected and parents need to be more involved in their kid's lives to know what they are doing and what they are letting themselves take in.

Batgirling
8th Oct 2010, 19:23
Hello all! You people seem sane enough around here, so I would like to pose the question above to you.
I'm a (relativaly) young gamer, and as such, it annoys the hell out of me when there is an awsome game an I cant ******* play it due to their age ratings. :mad2: you could think I'm just a annoying kid, but I think the age ratings people need to be more lenient. kids mature earleir then ever now, so I think the age ratings need to reflect as such.
Your thoughts?

I think it should be more strict. Honestly when parents complain about their young child playing violent games its not the fault of the kids its the damn parents that buy or let them play those games. I say if you are 16-17 you should be able to play any game. And in terms of becoming mature at a young age, its a fact that we women become mature by the age of 9 while boys mature at 15.

The_Hylden
8th Oct 2010, 21:29
On the topic of is the ESRB rating system too strict, or not: I think it just needs to be consistent and the system needs to rethink priorities. As Old Ben noted, profanity and sexual imagery are treated worse than violence. It goes further than that, though. It used to be that profanity wasn't even that much in M rated game, and I am talking about ten years ago. Now, lots more profanity, and even in T rated games, the level of blood and gore one game can get away with compared to another is drastically different at times. The movie rating system has the same problems. The Matrix, despite having not one F bomb, nor any gore to speak of, nor any nudity or sexual inuendo/terms, is rated R. Now, a movie like The Dark Knight, which had the same level of violence and the rest, wound up rated PG-13. One movie is rated PG -13 with blood exploding out every wound and the next has to be rated R, or else tone down the blood to a trickle, a plotch, or not even at all... It makes no sense, literally. Ratings, on the whole, have gotten fare less strict and are grossly more flexible than ever they used to be. Esspecially on TV...

Ratings are guidlines, but for underage kids, who still live by their parents' rule, it's absolutely necessary that only with the parents' consent should kids be allowed to view anything deemed not suitable for them at their respective ages. That's what we have now. If people in the stores aren't doing their jobs and are still selling these games and other mature-rendered media to underage kids, then stores should be made to crack down on their employees, fined, etc., just as if they are selling tobacco to underage kids. However, unlike tobacco, if a parent buys media such as this for their children, as they deem them mature enough to handle it, then that is their right as parents on how they govern their children. Unlike a tangible substance that is factually noted as harmful and cruel to inflict upon a child, or would be neglectful to allow them to use and abuse it, media, visual and auditory, is very subjective. The affects of violence and profanity, and sex on the mind of kids is impossible to pinpoint as a bad thing affecting them as they grow and mature. Government should not step in in this case and become the parents. And I have to disagree with it being Conservative in nature, as this legislature being proposed in California that will go probably to the Supreme Court was offered up by Democrats. It's just wrong, no matter the party, to inflict too much Government into the lives of us, the people. Here, a regulation being proposed on not even allowing parents to buy these games, is quite literally outrageous.

So, to sum up: the ESRB needs to go back to the drawing board and make more effective criteria for their ratings. They need to at least be consistent. Parents need to be mindful that the big giant label of what a product is on the box is there and means what it says as a suggested guideline. They need to then take a moment an DECIDE if this product is right for their kids (not just to make them stop whining, or crying, etc); and companies need to make sure that their employees obey the rules and don't sell games, or other media, that's deemed inappropriate for teens and younger to them. They shouldn't be government regulated to do this, however. Parents and communities need to act to hold them accountable. If they aren't, then don't buy from them; buy from someone else. Protest and/or boycott them.

And otherwise, I think, personally, there's too much profanity and violence in mature games and it's starting to leak through ever more in Teen games, also. I enjoy bloody, gory games, btw, but I actually like variety. I want something to offset my F.E.A.R. and Dead Space, not to see nothing but gory shooters. Some can tone down the dismemberment and gore flying out of blown-off heads now and then... I think we're seeing a reaction to excess, as is the usual reaction. However, it's the wrong reaction right now in the policy makers and with this crazy court hearing...

(btw, Batgirling, it's a fact that what? Girls mature faster than boys physically. However, neither reaches a maturity peek at the age of 9 in any category... -_-)

butterskenny
8th Oct 2010, 23:17
I think it should be more strict. Honestly when parents complain about their young child playing violent games its not the fault of the kids its the damn parents that buy or let them play those games. I say if you are 16-17 you should be able to play any game. And in terms of becoming mature at a young age, its a fact that we women become mature by the age of 9 while boys mature at 15.



Age of 9? Oh I think not..

Batman The Trailer Hunter
9th Oct 2010, 02:42
I think this should be closed.





And FYI If there were no sensors kids would end up as perverted as they are in japan, i dont know about you, but i DO NO want any children of mine saying sexual stuff, cussing and making obscene gesture or otherwise PERIOD! No amount of maturity warrents this sort of behaviour weather you 4 or 40!

Batgirling
9th Oct 2010, 03:04
I think this should be closed.





And FYI If there were no sensors kids would end up as perverted as they are in japan, i dont know about you, but i DO NO want any children of mine saying sexual stuff, cussing and making obscene gesture or otherwise PERIOD! No amount of maturity warrents this sort of behaviour weather you 4 or 40!

Exactly. Extream Strict limits for the win!

Batman The Trailer Hunter
9th Oct 2010, 15:17
Exactly. Extream Strict limits for the win!

Dude i've had extreamly stict limits and all of a sudden it changed to 0 limites for a brief time...its better to have mediam rare limitations used as guidlines!

kain9998
9th Oct 2010, 19:25
Here's my view on the subject:

I just turned 16 two days ago, so I'm still pretty young yet. However, I play games like GTA, Saints Row 2, Halo, Gears of War, Just Cause 2, etc. All of those games can be graphic, some more then others. The thing is I'm more adult then my age makes people think I am. I understand what the US is going through right now, and I am troubled by it. Other kids my age would never give a crap about it. Anymore, people can be selfish, or be jerks.

I personally don't think games has much to do with killings. I've heard a LOT of stories from people my age and younger, going so far as first grade. These children have been beaten by their parents, many are unwanted, and a lot of kids my age are only in relationships for sex. Sometimes that's just because their parents were the same way when they had the kid.

Also, many mothers smoke and drink, and do other harmful things to their children before they are born. Tell me that doesn't screw with them.

We have kids that are retarded, in the literal sense of the word, because their parents did horrid things. Some were beaten so bad it has left horrid marks on their lives, ones that will never go away.

When I play a game like GTA or Saints Row, it is not making me want to kill somebody. In fact, if I play a game like that and take my anger that I have at the time out on the people that are not even REAL, it makes me calm. Why? Because now I have just done something that was harmful, but to a crowd of people that were never real to begin with. To me, these vilent video games are much more of a stress relief then a channel of violence that makes me want to commit murder. The way I see it, most of the time parents can be blamed for the things their children do. If you have a kid, treat them with the recpect you want them to treat you with.

Message from a 16 year old kid who lives in todays world, and knows exactly what it's like:

Be nice to your kids. Don't beat them, only yell if something extremely bad happens. All's we want is love. Why do kids join gangs? Because they are their "brothers and sisters". Gang members can treat you with recpect if you kill somebody. Gang members will love you like family. I know kids who have been in gangs, and it was because the fact their parents never showed care for them, or because their parents never loved them like they should have. We learn every day, kids sometimes more then adults. Kids like myself act the way they see their parents act when they are growing up, and if their parents don't act like they should, like a good role-model, then who is there to go to? Gangs. Gangs that kill people, rape people, steal, etc.

That's my two cents as a kid growing up in this world. Tell me I'm wrong. I've talked to people that have done bad things, and from what I have gathered, this is their reasonings in one big paragraph.

Batman The Trailer Hunter
11th Oct 2010, 15:12
When you boil that all down it comes to being a good parent

The_Mad_Batter
13th Oct 2010, 02:40
You're a fool.

Tell me how many of those lawsuits have ended with it being proven that playing GTA or any violent videogame makes people violent. I'll save you the trouble: NONE. All this "violent videogames make violent kids" bull is just a load of hogwash spouted from the mouths of weakminded uber-conservative ignorant dumbasses who like to tell other people what to do and will do anything they can to put a ban on what they consider offensive. Classically the target has been rock music. In the 80s it was joined by pornography. And in the wake of games like Doom, Wolfenstein and Duke Nukem, videogames have been a target too. All of it is 100% bull****. Nothing someone listens to, watches or plays will remove their conscience and their morals. What really causes that is an unhappy homelife. Parents just have a habit of refusing to acknowledge their own failures and blame it on whatever is convenient. "Oh, Johnny wasn't unhappy with his home life, he shot himself in the face because of Ozzy Osbourne!" Get out of here with that tripe.

Nothing should be censored. If someone wants to make a movie and show it in a theatre they should be able to. If someone wants to make a videogame and sell it in a store they should be able to. If someone wants to make a porno mag and stick it on a magazine rack they should be able to. Its up to the parents to teach their children what they should and shouldn't do and for their parents. If an eight year old wants to walk into Wal-Mart and walk out with Grand Theft Auto the only people who have the right to say "NO" are his parents. Not the government and not sham organizations like the ESRB.

Are you just some little kid who's mad cause his mommy won't let him play M games?

Not only are your comments rash and childish, but they are completely wrong.
Some parents just don't give a s***. They don't watch their children or restrict what they do. They don't CARE. The government has a right and a responsibility to censor these games for the benefit of our society. I'm not saying BAN these games and movies, but i'm saying either:

Make them COMPLETELY unaccessible to young people OR

Tone them down a bit.


What kind of values are they teaching?


Let me make an analogy here. You say that nothing people read, watch, play or hear affects their morals or conscience. I'm a history buff, so I'll use Nazism as an example.

Julius Streicher was a Nazi propaganda official who published the newspaper Der Sturmer
(an anti-Jew paper) as well as three childrens books centering around Anti Semitism. Because of this, millions of German children began to follow Nazism. They were taught about Anti-Semitism in school. They studied the works of Nazi leaders. These kids became Hitler Youth members, in which they beat up Jews, tore down shops, paraded with Nazi leaders, and prepared to fight in the war. These papers turned them into little monsters.

Now compare this with, say, a 10 year old playing GTA. He plays the game, and after he's done, he realizes the game was FUN. He begins to swear like the characters do, act like them, and becomes more violent because he sees how much fun it was in game. He gets older, plays more violent games, and when he's in high school, he realizes that since all the "cool" people take drugs, like GTA's characters, he decides to give it a whirl.

You know where I'm goin with this.

Studies have PROVEN that the two kids who shot up Columbine were ADDICTED to these games, and that the games directly influenced them to commit thses crimes.
The thing that bothers ME the most about GTA isn't the violence or the gore, but the fact that you play AS the bad guys. You shoot innocent citizens and steal cars for points. The game would be just fine if they made you the cops who try to stop these guys. What'll they think of next, a "Serial KillerSim?"
As for the music, some of the lyrics have blatant and awful references to SATANISM and the OCCULT.

Finally, you know absolutely NOTHING about psychology. Yes, unhappy home life and mental instability can cause violent acts, but playing inappropriate games and listening to Satanic music can cause a trigger for these events as well. Mental instability and censored entertainment go hand in hand.

Nemesis296
13th Oct 2010, 22:10
There sure is a heated debate going on here. I can't really say that I can relate to the discussion with a personal experience, however I can say that the ratings system does work. The problem is, people feel the need to get around the system.

As stated above, kain is only 16, but he plays M rated games. Now, legally, that means that the parents are supposed to be the ones who approve these games and use parenting to allow their children to play these games. I'd be willing to bet that 90% of gamers that are under the age of 17 play games like Halo/Call of Duty/GTA, etc without their parents *real* consent. Whether it's going to a friends house where the parents don't care, or the game store salesman sells the kid the game underage in the first place.

With me, well I wasn't really allowed to play video games until I was able to buy them myself and by that time I was able to buy the M rated games if I really wanted to.

The solution here is NOT to censor things by using the government. C'mon, the government has a lot more important things to worry about than a couple of non-related incidents that somehow get linked to violent video games. It's the most preposterous thing ever. Think about the ratings with movies. I bet your parents let you watch R rated movies...so what is the difference between a movie and a game?

It all boils down to the level of self-control that you as the gamer have over your own actions. If you don't think you can handle the violence in the game, why play it? If your parents are smart and parent the way that parents should, the ratings system should function just as it is designed. Otherwise, there shouldn't be a ratings system. Period. If we as people are too naive to understand that certain content shouldn't be viewed by younger children *on our own*, there is no hope for us and we might as well have everything available to everyone to corrupt society to the fullest extent so all of the corrupt can die off and leave the rest of us at peace.

George Carlin said it best I think "The kid that swallows too many marbles doesn't grow up to have kids of his own." If parents don't enforce the ratings on their children, what makes you think the government will do any better? "Timmy Johnson was sent to a Juvenile Delinquency hearing today after he was discovered playing underage video games." :rolleyes: That's utterly ridiculous.

kain9998
14th Oct 2010, 00:49
There sure is a heated debate going on here. I can't really say that I can relate to the discussion with a personal experience, however I can say that the ratings system does work. The problem is, people feel the need to get around the system.

As stated above, kain is only 16, but he plays M rated games. Now, legally, that means that the parents are supposed to be the ones who approve these games and use parenting to allow their children to play these games. I'd be willing to bet that 90% of gamers that are under the age of 17 play games like Halo/Call of Duty/GTA, etc without their parents *real* consent. Whether it's going to a friends house where the parents don't care, or the game store salesman sells the kid the game underage in the first place.

Just wanted to add after this that my dad also plays the xbox quite a bit, and he actually is the one that buys most of my games for me, most of them without me even asking because I don't really ask for much, he just likes the same kinds of games I like. For instance, he just bought me Medal of Honer, but he plays it quite a bit as well. I didn't even ask for it or anything, I just asked if heh ad heard anything about it, and he said no, then bought it the day it came out. He also is buying me Fallout: New Vegas, even though I didn't ask for it. But the thing is, my parents don't care because they know me better then to go out and kill somebody because I did it in a video game for fun in my spare time.

The_Mad_Batter
14th Oct 2010, 02:13
Wow, Kain you're only 16? You look a lot older in your profile picture on SOTD rpg site.

Anyway, you're the exact same age as me and you're publishing a BOOK? Youre making me feel inadequate now! I must do something significant!

Batman The Trailer Hunter
14th Oct 2010, 20:35
When i was 14 and my bro was 15 we had to argue and debate with my parents so that he could get an M game. This was like their way of proving our maturity, we had to ask permission to buy any game, even if it was T. Most of the time my dad didnt care, as long as it didbnt have mature content like nudity or excessive language. Its more or less the principal of censors not wither or not they are strict enough, because they arnt but thats not the point

kain9998
14th Oct 2010, 21:41
Wow, Kain you're only 16? You look a lot older in your profile picture on SOTD rpg site.

Anyway, you're the exact same age as me and you're publishing a BOOK? Youre making me feel inadequate now! I must do something significant!

Well on the SOTD RPG site that's the actor I think would fit Randy's part xD If you would look on the SOTD youtube page and see my video update, THAT is what I look like. Unfortunatly, two months ago it was posted, and my webcam broke so I am not doing them until I get a new one. However, i nthe video updates my hair is like super long and now its super short xD

Nemesis296
15th Oct 2010, 00:13
Just wanted to add after this that my dad also plays the xbox quite a bit, and he actually is the one that buys most of my games for me, most of them without me even asking because I don't really ask for much, he just likes the same kinds of games I like. For instance, he just bought me Medal of Honer, but he plays it quite a bit as well. I didn't even ask for it or anything, I just asked if heh ad heard anything about it, and he said no, then bought it the day it came out. He also is buying me Fallout: New Vegas, even though I didn't ask for it. But the thing is, my parents don't care because they know me better then to go out and kill somebody because I did it in a video game for fun in my spare time.

Right, so your parents are the ones that are allowing you to play the games. We don't need a law to enforce that type of stuff.

It's funny how I just dawned on this discussion, my girlfriend's brother and his friend were complaining (they are only 16) about how the movie theater will be carding people for the midnight showings of Jackass 3D. People are (or should I say *should be*) carded everywhere. Not to say that I'm still carded for M rated games or R-rated movies, but I was in college when I still looked kinda young. Personally, I don't see why anyone under the age of 17 should be allowed to watch anything that goes on Jackass...those guys are just plain dumb. And if it were my kid, I wouldn't want them to think it was funny...even though I find it hilarious myself.

The_Mad_Batter
15th Oct 2010, 02:03
Well on the SOTD RPG site that's the actor I think would fit Randy's part xD If you would look on the SOTD youtube page and see my video update, THAT is what I look like. Unfortunatly, two months ago it was posted, and my webcam broke so I am not doing them until I get a new one. However, i nthe video updates my hair is like super long and now its super short xD

OOOoooohh..... I feel dumb.

Anyway, the book isn't published yet and you're thinking MOVIE already? Whoa, man slow down a bit there! Things take time. But I'm sure I'll be seeing it on the Barnes and Noble shelf in a year or two!

Batman The Trailer Hunter
15th Oct 2010, 03:46
Right, so your parents are the ones that are allowing you to play the games. We don't need a law to enforce that type of stuff.

It's funny how I just dawned on this discussion, my girlfriend's brother and his friend were complaining (they are only 16) about how the movie theater will be carding people for the midnight showings of Jackass 3D. People are (or should I say *should be*) carded everywhere. Not to say that I'm still carded for M rated games or R-rated movies, but I was in college when I still looked kinda young. Personally, I don't see why anyone under the age of 17 should be allowed to watch anything that goes on Jackass...those guys are just plain dumb. And if it were my kid, I wouldn't want them to think it was funny...even though I find it hilarious myself.
For a class project i made a proposal to make it a law kids under 13 couldnt see an R rated movie. And those who around 13 needed to prove it with a school Id. Got voted best ideal in the class...sadly im homeschooled so it didnt matter

Nemesis296
15th Oct 2010, 12:00
For a class project i made a proposal to make it a law kids under 13 couldnt see an R rated movie. And those who around 13 needed to prove it with a school Id. Got voted best ideal in the class...sadly im homeschooled so it didnt matter

Why would you *lower* the age restriction (and I'm not saying it should be raised either...)? Trying to put forth the argument that kids are more mature these days does not work in a general sense. There may be exceptions to the rule, but that does not change the fact that kids who are teenagers are usually irresponsible, and have very little self-awareness for their actions, or respect for adults. Hell, I even feel that way about some college kids that are in their 20s. Maturity for most people is something that comes with age, so trying to accelerate the process seems like a chaotic way to cause problems.

Do you *really* believe that a 13 year old should be allowed to see a movie like The Hangover? I'm going to have to respectfully disagree here...

And of course it's going to be voted best idea in the class..you're preaching to the ideal crowd in that situation. That's just like imagine if I went to an assembly with college freshman and argued the drinking age should be lowered to 18. You betcha that I would be raised up like I had the best idea since peanut butter and jelly. You're not thinking about the effect that all that 'content' would have on the mind of younger kids, even though you might be mature enough to handle it. A law is the bottom line. If 13-year olds could see rated R movies, kids would become corrupt beyond recognition. Parents would lose complete control, and everything would just turn to crap. "I don't want you seeing that movie!" "Well, it's legal so you can't do anything about it!" Respect aside for the parents, giving kids less time to mature and develop before exposing them (legally) to content in R-rated movies seems like a big mistake in my opinion.

Batgirling
15th Oct 2010, 20:28
I agree with this ^^^^

People cannot be judged by their parents but judged by the friends they have.

Nemesis296
16th Oct 2010, 20:38
Now here's something interesting...I just returned from Wal-mart and I bought the Halo: Reach strategy guide. I was carded for attempting to buy the guide. Since when is a book something that is too violent for minors? There is no rating from the ESRB on the book, though I found it very strange that they would not sell me the guide if I was under 17. :scratch:

Thankfully I'm over 17, (by a number of years), but the concept still bugs me. What's wrong with a book about an "M" rated game?

Batman The Trailer Hunter
17th Oct 2010, 07:13
Now here's something interesting...I just returned from Wal-mart and I bought the Halo: Reach strategy guide. I was carded for attempting to buy the guide. Since when is a book something that is too violent for minors? There is no rating from the ESRB on the book, though I found it very strange that they would not sell me the guide if I was under 17. :scratch:

Thankfully I'm over 17, (by a number of years), but the concept still bugs me. What's wrong with a book about an "M" rated game?

Ok now that is weird...its not like its a porno or anything. Perhaps its just the store or the person who sold it to you...

Nemesis296
18th Oct 2010, 03:21
Ok now that is weird...its not like its a porno or anything. Perhaps its just the store or the person who sold it to you...

Well it came from Wal-mart so I wonder if that had something to do with it. Either way though, I have never been carded for a book in my life before so it kinda surprised me when the lady asked to see my ID...

The_Hylden
18th Oct 2010, 06:40
It may be a new policy that since it's a guide for an M-rated game, the content within will be the same as the game, or that you have to be able to buy the game, so the guide should only be available to those of age that can buy the game... I don't know.

If you think about it, though, I am sure pictures are in there that might show bloody kills, perhaps, or imagery of mature content, or even text of the dialogue in certain scenes which may have some cuss words, possibly. I don't have the game, so I don't know how M it is.

Come to think of it, I believe we had the same policy when I worked at Blockbuster last year.

Nemesis296
18th Oct 2010, 13:56
It may be a new policy that since it's a guide for an M-rated game, the content within will be the same as the game, or that you have to be able to buy the game, so the guide should only be available to those of age that can buy the game... I don't know.

If you think about it, though, I am sure pictures are in there that might show bloody kills, perhaps, or imagery of mature content, or even text of the dialogue in certain scenes which may have some cuss words, possibly. I don't have the game, so I don't know how M it is.

Come to think of it, I believe we had the same policy when I worked at Blockbuster last year.

I haven't read all 450 pages of it yet :p but I can tell you that what I've seen thus far...there's nothing "M" about it. It's just a book with pictures and descriptions about how to tackle certain missions/encounters/multiplayer maps. It may say words like "kill" and "explode" but that doesn't seem to be what warrants Halo the "M" rating. What warrants the rating is the blood and amount of violence that you actually see when playing the game. You cannot possibly depict that with a book that only contains still pictures...

Plus, from what I can see thus far, there are hardly any story spoilers as far as cutscenes go, and that's the only time that a cuss word would be spoken (if any)...I have played through the campain 1.5 times and I don't remember any fleeting moments where a word was uttered that made me do a double-take. That said, the level of violence is pretty high within the actual game which I'm sure is why it's rated "M".

I guess it's one thing to think that you would only buy the guide if you had the game, but it seems a little silly to brand "official" game guides one way, while I could write a book about the game and it wouldn't suffer the same action from the publishing companies. :scratch:

Batman The Trailer Hunter
20th Oct 2010, 06:35
I never got carded as a 12 year old buying T rated games

Nemesis296
20th Oct 2010, 14:55
I never got carded as a 12 year old buying T rated games

What exactly would a 12 year old have that could constitute an "ID"...

Batman The Trailer Hunter
21st Oct 2010, 07:09
What exactly would a 12 year old have that could constitute an "ID"...

School ID. I think its required some places

Nemesis296
21st Oct 2010, 13:10
School ID. I think its required some places

Do school IDs have your birthday on them? I know my college ID did, but that's different. College IDs are used to get into bars and such, so telling whether you're 18 or 21 was a big deal. Doesn't seem like that would really apply for a 12 year old :lol:

Batman The Trailer Hunter
23rd Oct 2010, 03:01
Do school IDs have your birthday on them? I know my college ID did, but that's different. College IDs are used to get into bars and such, so telling whether you're 18 or 21 was a big deal. Doesn't seem like that would really apply for a 12 year old :lol:
IKR but some places have them