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Arkhammadman
3rd Sep 2009, 05:23
ok, i did not read this comic book but i was curious. what was the joke that made batman laugh?


can someone either PM me it or write it here

its would be really nice i'd apreciate it :)

EliteF50
3rd Sep 2009, 05:29
There were two guys that broke out of an asylum, but there's a small gap in between them and freedom. One of the guys jumps over no problem, but the other guy is scared of falling. So, the first guy says, "I'll shine my flashlight across the gap, then you can walk on the beam of light." The second guy said, "What do you think I am, stupid? You're going to turn off the light when I'm half way across."

Arkhammadman
3rd Sep 2009, 05:32
thanks man :-)

SolidSnake_123
3rd Sep 2009, 05:38
In my opinion, this moment is the most legendary in the on-going saga with batman and joker, it really shows that they really are 1 in the same. Pick this up!

Arkhammadman
3rd Sep 2009, 06:34
ya its a pretty gunny joke though i laughed my ***** off

SolidSnake_123
3rd Sep 2009, 06:47
Did u guys notice that the joker was talking about himself and batman? I mean batman wanted to rehabilitate him, and Joker says its to late. So ya know, that flashlight thing was that if batman did try to help and guide him... he would fall under any circumstances. Sometimes you have to feel sorry for the clown prince of Crime.

curiousgerbil
3rd Sep 2009, 11:35
I never picked up on that. Nice observation.

warvibe24
3rd Sep 2009, 15:30
I love the killing joke awesome comic.

Batman The Trailer Hunter
3rd Sep 2009, 18:35
Joker actuelly started to say this in the game, but stopped and said ya already heard this one!

Arkhammadman
3rd Sep 2009, 21:47
its sad joker didn't made it as a stand up comic

Clown Prince Of Crime
3rd Sep 2009, 21:49
Did u guys notice that the joker was talking about himself and batman? I mean batman wanted to rehabilitate him, and Joker says its to late. So ya know, that flashlight thing was that if batman did try to help and guide him... he would fall under any circumstances. Sometimes you have to feel sorry for the clown prince of Crime.

Woah, I never looked at it that way !

Drazar
3rd Sep 2009, 21:55
its sad joker didn't made it as a stand up comic

If you wanna see something nasty and vile, go read Brian Azzarello's and Lee Bermejo's Joker comic. It's pretty much up-bar with the Joker stories as "The Killing Joke" is. :)

Old_BenKenobi
4th Sep 2009, 00:05
I don't like "Joker" that much, but I love the Killing Joke.

Maybe I'm crazy, but did the Joker look darker as the story progressed to anyone else? In the first shot of his face he's positively beaming, but at the end he has much darker look on his face.

EliteF50
4th Sep 2009, 00:49
thanks man :-)

No problem. :)

butterskenny
6th Sep 2009, 00:21
There were two guys that broke out of an asylum, but there's a small gap in between them and freedom. One of the guys jumps over no problem, but the other guy is scared of falling. So, the first guy says, "I'll shine my flashlight across the gap, then you can walk on the beam of light." The second guy said, "What do you think I am, stupid? You're going to turn off the light when I'm half way across."

To be exact it was:

See, there were these two guys in a lunatic asylum... and one night, one night they decide they don't like living in an asylum any more. They decide they're going to escape! So, like, they get up onto the roof, and there, just across this narrow gap, they see the rooftops of the town, stretching away in the moon light... stretching away to freedom. Now, the first guy, he jumps right across with no problem. But his friend, his friend didn't dare make the leap. Y'see... Y'see, he's afraid of falling. So then, the first guy has an idea... He says "Hey! I have my flashlight with me! I'll shine it across the gap between the buildings. You can walk along the beam and join me!" B-but the second guy just shakes his head. He suh-says... He says "Wh-what do you think I am? Crazy? You'd turn it off when I was half way across!"

fatal shadow
6th Sep 2009, 00:29
its sad joker didn't made it as a stand up comic

Ah. But then we wouldn't have the Joker.;)


Did u guys notice that the joker was talking about himself and batman?

Yeah. That was obvious from the start to me. Especially given the situation and how Joker considers Bats a "loon" like himself.

SolidSnake_123
6th Sep 2009, 00:30
No matter how vile or nasty the Joker becomes, you gotta have a soft spot for him, I mean, he is just like the big bat.

Kevin =]
7th Sep 2009, 02:26
at the end of the comic, i actually felt a bit sad for joker... he seems to actually gain a second of sanity, trying to see the light... but it was as he said.. too late for him

Revenant36
17th Sep 2009, 23:14
;1167382']at the end of the comic, i actually felt a bit sad for joker... he seems to actually gain a second of sanity, trying to see the light... but it was as he said.. too late for him

I had the same feeling.

Oh, and for anyone who likes The Killing Joke, you should check out The Man Who Laughs. It's not as good as TKJ, but it's still great...

phazhion
22nd Nov 2009, 23:24
;1167382']at the end of the comic, i actually felt a bit sad for joker... he seems to actually gain a second of sanity, trying to see the light... but it was as he said.. too late for him

Also in the part where the policemen talk to "past joker"...
I think it's true that "All it takes is one bad day to reduce the sanest man alive to lunacy".

butterskenny
22nd Nov 2009, 23:27
It is.

Old_BenKenobi
22nd Nov 2009, 23:37
;1167382']at the end of the comic, i actually felt a bit sad for joker... he seems to actually gain a second of sanity, trying to see the light... but it was as he said.. too late for him

Thats what makes the story so great. Moore managed to make Joker both sympathetic and tragic and a sadistic, horrible monster at the same time.

Prince Daka
22nd Nov 2009, 23:38
"Look at him now, poor fellow, that's what a dose of reality does for you... never touch the stuff myself, you understand. Find it gets in the way of the hallucinations."

Drazar
22nd Nov 2009, 23:47
Thats what makes the story so great. Moore managed to make Joker both sympathetic and tragic and a sadistic, horrible monster at the same time.

Not to mention with only 50 pages of storytelling. Thats only 1 double-sized comic issue. :) Shame Moore seems to hate Killing Joke nowdays lol.

batfan08
23rd Nov 2009, 00:17
Moore is an astounding author.I loved Watchmen and The Killing Joke is arguably the greatest Batman story ever written.Add to that his run on Saga of the Swamp Thing and probably my favorite Superman story,"For The Man Who Has Everything."You've got yourself one amazing writer.

butterskenny
23rd Nov 2009, 00:24
"Look at him now, poor fellow, that's what a dose of reality does for you... never touch the stuff myself, you understand. Find it gets in the way of the hallucinations."



Sounds like something Scarecrow from the game would say.

Old_BenKenobi
23rd Nov 2009, 00:51
Moore is an astounding author.I loved Watchmen and The Killing Joke is arguably the greatest Batman story ever written.Add to that his run on Saga of the Swamp Thing and probably my favorite Superman story,"For The Man Who Has Everything."You've got yourself one amazing writer.

Don't forget V For Vendetta, The League of Extraordinary Gentlemen, From Hell and the very controversial Lost Girls.

Have you seen the documentary "The Mindscape of Alan Moore"? Its basically an 80 minute movie of the guy sharing his philosophies and going over his life, which are very interesting. The guy is really smart. He also has a great way with words and humour:

"On my fortieth birthday, rather than merely bore my friends by having anything as mundane as a midlife crisis I decided it might be more interesting to actually terrify them by going completely mad and declaring myself to be a magician."

Abeja
23rd Nov 2009, 01:16
Im currently reading Moores Swamp Thing run and up to the Crisis on Infinite Earths tie-ins (Constantine as a cameo was awesome as well). Every issue is absolutely genius. The art is amazing, its not the cleanest but definitely fits the horror of the book. I actually might read COIE cause Ive never read the whole thing.

If anyone hasnt read Swamp Thing, you can download the SECOND ISSUE (even tho it says #1, Moore did Saga of Swamp Thing #20 which tied up previous storylines) for free from Vertigo/DC. Such a great issue. Probably one of the greatest comic(s) Ive ever read. The first annual where he meets Deadman, Phantom Stranger, The Spectre on his way to hell was awesome. The Pog issue too. Every issue has been incredible

http://www.dccomics.com/vertigo/graphic_novels/?gn=1661

Batfan or Kenobi, have you read his Miracleman? Thats the next one im gonna finish up. The first few issues blew me away. I started to read League of as well, but id like to read his Green Lantern stuff cause there has been some stuff tied to Blackest Night.

Old_BenKenobi
23rd Nov 2009, 04:05
I wish to read Miracleman, but haven't. I already have V For Vendetta and From Hell on my backlog to read. I'm just starting to get into Moore's stuff beyond Watchmen and Killing Joke (though I've been reading a few random passage of Watchmen every day and finding new stuff).

batfan08
23rd Nov 2009, 21:47
I wish to Read V,and I've been aiming to ever since the film was released,but as of late,I haven't had much time on my hands.I think I might read it next November 5th.:p As far as Lost Girls go,after hearing the basic premise,I may have to wait a few years.

Old_BenKenobi
23rd Nov 2009, 22:15
I think Lost Girls is technically illegal.

Drazar
23rd Nov 2009, 22:17
V book is very different from the movie. The movie made V too much into a hero, while V in the book is truly anarchy. He isn't your mister nice guy. He's a jerk.

DropkickDisco
23rd Nov 2009, 22:45
I don't blame Moore for disliking the movie adaptations of his work. His belief is that these graphic novels do not need any film adaptations, as he thinks that the story should be experienced in a specific way. Many adaptations of his work tend to greatly tone down the themes in his graphic novels (V for Vendetta, League of Extraordinary Gentlemen), which Moore doesn't appreciate. He did say that the Watchmen script was decent, though.

Old_BenKenobi
23rd Nov 2009, 23:10
Moore specifically writes his books to be unfilmable.

Drazar
23rd Nov 2009, 23:51
Watchmen Director's cut was pretty awesome. Zack Snyder just didn't show enough why it was "who watches the watchmen" sure they promoted the slogan but the movie doesn't really explain it so. It was more of an action flick than drama.

The problem is people make a very different version of what Moore did, so why bother calling it V for Vendetta? Why not call it..... the Anarchy guy! :P

Old_BenKenobi
24th Nov 2009, 00:04
The thing about Watchmen is it's intended to be a huge, sprawling, incredibly detailed deconstruction of superheroes, and to use superhero cliches to examine the notions of power and responsibility in an increasingly complex world. The plot is secondary, simply a vehicle to carry the themes and allow more the opportunity to examine almost every superhero trope you could think of.

Movies, however, don't function like that. A conventional movie is supposed to have a beginning, middle and end, characters to fill the roles the plot demands and use a story to leave an impression on the audience. So the Watchmen movie was turned from a book focused on the details that highlight the absurdity of superhero comics into a movie about a superhero killing millions to save billions. It's a completely different focus, and thats to be expected. Characters are altered and made more two-dimensional and more conventional (which is defeating the point of the characters entirely, as they're specifically designed to NOT be conventional).

But Zack Snyder and his reverence to the source material stopped the movie from accomplishing that goal as well, because while its still focused on the plot like a movie he's also smashing these details into it from the book, but without the formatting of the book they're just irrelevent and time consuming.

I think its a good movie, but I don't think it should have been made. If I were to adapt it I'd make it a two-part movie.

batfan08
24th Nov 2009, 01:13
Miniseries on HBO.I don't mean to bring up the whole sex scene thing again,but does anyone think that could be viewed as sacreligious,I personally think that was a poor attempt to try to stir up controversy,as 1.)they managed to turn a 2-panel scene into 5-minutes of softcore porn.and 2.)The GN said that Billie Holiday was playing,so why'd he put Leonard Cohen there?

Old_BenKenobi
24th Nov 2009, 01:18
Because the audience likes nudity (me included), and Snyder has said he used Cohen's song to make the scene seem like over-the-top silliness.

batfan08
24th Nov 2009, 02:13
Because the audience likes nudity (me included), and Snyder has said he used Cohen's song to make the scene seem like over-the-top silliness.

I know that feeling. :p

JokerMeThis
27th Nov 2009, 01:25
Yeah, that comic made me feel so bad for the Joker. I wish Batman could see all the events that led up to the Joker going crazy, his wife dying, the criminal peer pressuring, the innocent guy running into an acidic lake all because he was scared of Batman. I bet he'd go on a right guilt trip.

Sir Legendhead
27th Nov 2009, 03:30
Moore specifically writes his books to be unfilmable.You ever notice how the people who like the movies adapted from his books are the ones who haven't read his books? I'm one of those -- I like the V film but never read the original and all my friends who had, hated how the movie turned out.

And don't even get me started on Watchmen. I haven't hated a superhero movie that much since Batman and Robin. I thought the first two and a half hours were great, but the ending failed on every conceivable level. Maybe I would have liked it if I hadn't known what it was supposed to look like.

royal flush
27th Nov 2009, 05:22
Did u guys notice that the joker was talking about himself and batman? I mean batman wanted to rehabilitate him, and Joker says its to late. So ya know, that flashlight thing was that if batman did try to help and guide him... he would fall under any circumstances. Sometimes you have to feel sorry for the clown prince of Crime.

i always thought that was the joke he messed up on from the first flashback because he also stutters while telling it to batman. and if that's true then the jokers life could have been different if bruce wayne was in the crowd that night. i always thought that was THE killing joke

Old_BenKenobi
27th Nov 2009, 07:31
I just finished reading V for Vendetta today. After that I read the synopsis for the movie... ugh.

Drazar
27th Nov 2009, 07:55
I just finished reading V for Vendetta today. After that I read the synopsis for the movie... ugh.

It's an enjoyable film but it shouldn't be V for Vendetta, it should have been something different. :( Speaking of Watchmen i really loved the director's cut, it's awesome adaption and the fact it peeked people to READ the comic is in my opinion a very good thing. I never understood why Snyder couldn't have had Dr. Manhattan say "nothing ever ends" line for some reason.. It's a very powerful moment at the end and it feels abit disappointing to have Silk Spectre say that Nite Owl. =/ Oh well the movie has atleast made Jackie Earl Haley into a comic nerd's biggest man-love now, especially with the rumours that he's going to be Sinestro. :D

Also i read Alan Moore's Green Lantern corps story with Nekron. :D it has absolutely nothing to do with anything really, but i did notice Abin Sur saved a little girl who spoke with a weird language. I believe Geoff Johsn made this girl into Indiigo-1. :)

JokerMeThis
27th Nov 2009, 10:16
i always thought that was the joke he messed up on from the first flashback because he also stutters while telling it to batman. and if that's true then the jokers life could have been different if bruce wayne was in the crowd that night. i always thought that was THE killing joke

I absolutely love that concept. If Bruce had been in the crowd and laughed, it would have changed everything.

If The Killing Joke was made into a short television film, they could start off with like the alternate reality of the Joker getting the job and what could have been and then be like "No, that's not what really happened" and then replay the scene without Bruce there and then continue on to tell the exact The Killing Joke plot. Kinda like a final destination type replay when they show you one thing and then change it slightly.

Old_BenKenobi
27th Nov 2009, 12:15
It's an enjoyable film but it shouldn't be V for Vendetta, it should have been something different. :( Speaking of Watchmen i really loved the director's cut, it's awesome adaption and the fact it peeked people to READ the comic is in my opinion a very good thing. I never understood why Snyder couldn't have had Dr. Manhattan say "nothing ever ends" line for some reason.. It's a very powerful moment at the end and it feels abit disappointing to have Silk Spectre say that Nite Owl. =/ Oh well the movie has atleast made Jackie Earl Haley into a comic nerd's biggest man-love now, especially with the rumours that he's going to be Sinestro. :D

From the moment they got to Adrian's fortress the movie went downhill for me. The design of the place was very off, and so was Adrian's costume. And so was his actor. :p

The highlight of that section of the movie was easily Rorschach's fantastic death seen. I almost like it better than the one from the book.

Rorschach: Suddenly you discover humanity... how convenient. If you'd cared from the start, none of this would have happened.
Jon: I can change almost anything... but I can't change human nature.

A very good exchange. It was one of the few moments in the movie where the acting, the editting, the music and the dialog meshed perfectly. The way Jon looks at Rorschach, hes almost sad, and theres this sort of howl in the score. Haley was very, very good in the role. Excellent body acting (especially since most of the time his face is hidden). After he says goodbye to Dan he looks at him and slowly turns away. He's got this very slight tremor that just reeks of sadness and remorse, and the acknowledgement of the inevitable. Bonus points to whoever animated the mask in that shot, since the "ink" is streaming down his cheeks and almost resembles tears.

DropkickDisco
29th Nov 2009, 02:47
From the moment they got to Adrian's fortress the movie went downhill for me. The design of the place was very off, and so was Adrian's costume. And so was his actor. :p

The highlight of that section of the movie was easily Rorschach's fantastic death seen. I almost like it better than the one from the book.

Rorschach: Suddenly you discover humanity... how convenient. If you'd cared from the start, none of this would have happened.
Jon: I can change almost anything... but I can't change human nature.

A very good exchange. It was one of the few moments in the movie where the acting, the editting, the music and the dialog meshed perfectly. The way Jon looks at Rorschach, hes almost sad, and theres this sort of howl in the score. Haley was very, very good in the role. Excellent body acting (especially since most of the time his face is hidden). After he says goodbye to Dan he looks at him and slowly turns away. He's got this very slight tremor that just reeks of sadness and remorse, and the acknowledgement of the inevitable. Bonus points to whoever animated the mask in that shot, since the "ink" is streaming down his cheeks and almost resembles tears.

I actually liked Adrian's actor, since I've been a Matthew Goode fan for some time. He was particularly good during the assassination scene, and his accent worked nicely. It's kind of sad that his portrayal of Adrian hasn't been appreciated, since he said the lines rather perfectly (IMO). There was something mysterious in how he talked, especially when he was sharply responding to the businessmen. "Something that you should factor into your decision", "Gentlemen...", etc...

Karnak's design seemed spot-on to me. I like how they included the Egyptian influences. Strangely, I also prefer how we last see Adrian in the movie: standing in a ruined Karnak with the operatic music in the background. His facial expression was chilling.

Old_BenKenobi
29th Nov 2009, 04:17
The thing I don't like about how Adrian was done is while Goode played the role well, he didn't look the part at all. If I close my eyes and listen to his voice then yes, he was a good Adrian. But instead of looking like the ultimate nice guy Superman type, which is what he was meant to be in the comic, he was a skinny and slightly sinister looking businessman. Like the other characters, who got boiled down into their basic archetypes, Adrian was made much more into a traditional villain. Even his costume was black and silver looking instead of the bright gold and purple.

Rorschach? Looks great in the movie. Nite Owl? Looks great in the movie (though I think the change of costume was unnecessary). Dr. Manhattan? Fantastic use of CG. Ozymandias? Eh..

As for Karnak, I felt that removing the vivarium was a big misstep. That was what really kept it from being a traditional supervillain lair and made it into a personal paradise for Veidt. But in the movie it's very cold and distant, with lots of silvers and greys. Even Bubastis was changed from being red-purple to a steely blue.

In general, Adrian's scenes seemed to be shot with a much more mechanical tone compared to the organic and rich way everyone else is shot. Considering that up until the big reveal at the end he was arguably the warmest and nicest fellow in the book, this is definitely the area where I feel Snyder dropped the ball.

I mean, which one is the villain?

http://img690.imageshack.us/img690/6944/ozymandias.jpg

I do think that the last shot of him is great though. The Mozart is really powerful, he really looks alone.

homeycdawg
29th Nov 2009, 07:04
Just saw the killing joke title and had to post. :)

The Killing Joke is my favorite Joker story along with The Man Who Laughs. The first couple pages of TMWL shocked me when I first saw it (still kinda). But the story of TKJ was so psychological, It kinda made me look at Batman and Joker differently than I had before.

The_Hylden
29th Nov 2009, 08:04
The Man Who laughs is a reimagining of the first Batman story of the joker 70 years ago. It is quite awesome :) Love The Killing Joke, though it's disturbing. I take a different perspective in not feeling sorry for Joker at all, never forgetting what he's done, no matter the tragedy of his past. But, to each their own on how they will feel when reading it. And no matter how many times the comics, or Joker, try to draw a link that Batman is just like Joker, he'll never come across that way. Unless you have him in Arkham Asylum (the Graphic Novel) impaling himself to "stop the pain." Sheesh:p But, Batman isn't insane. He has pain, sure, and it's driven him to do what most would never commit to, but insane? No.

Again, that's just me.

And it seams split on the amount of people who either love, or hate, Watchman who'v already read the Graphic Novel. I wouldn't say it's predicated on if you've read it, or not, in if you will like it, or not. I hadn't read the novel when I saw the film and just thought it was ok. I though it was too long in spots, but ok in others. I can only imagine what another 30-45 minutes would make it feel like. V for Vendetta is a good film, and liberties aside, it was directed well, acted well, and what they did was done as well as it's going to get, probably. I liked feeling for V, liked that it was still V. If he's not called V, and you lose that whole motif of "Remember, remember, the 5th of November," etc., then it's just not going to work the same. Batman's movies haven't followed anything to a T, so why should another character made into a movie have to not be called what the source name is just because it's not following the original story to a T? No film ever follows any book, novel, or comic, video game, etc., to the letter. It's one vision of the source material brought to life, but not necessarily the actual material manifested completely.

And try as Moore may in making his work "unfilmable," NOTHING is unfilmable. ALL can be done and done well. :) Or poorly, just like any film in general is good, or bad. It's all, also, all subjective to the individual watching as to what is good, or bad about films.

DropkickDisco
29th Nov 2009, 08:25
Watchmen is one of my favorite films that's focused on the concept of a superhero. Truth be told, I like Watchmen: The Director's Cut more than The Dark Knight. Watchmen's opening sequence is still one of my favorite movie moments, including the opening titles with Bob Dylan.

Old_BenKenobi
29th Nov 2009, 09:58
You don't think a man dressing himself in tights and beating the crap out of criminals, driven by vengeance and hatred is insane, Hylden? It's certainly not sane.

batfan08
29th Nov 2009, 10:27
Everyone has different ways of expressing themselves.While one Christian Bale may find solace in drawing horrible imaginary murders,another might get his kicks by dressing up in a black bodysuit resembling a bat.

Drazar
29th Nov 2009, 10:39
Batman isn't insane. He has pain, sure, and it's driven him to do what most would never commit to, but insane? No.


We can debate this really, but i'm sure we can agree that Batman is his salvation and his determination on his life.

The_Hylden
29th Nov 2009, 12:00
You don't think a man dressing himself in tights and beating the crap out of criminals, driven by vengeance and hatred is insane, Hylden? It's certainly not sane.

His core is wanting to stop the criminals out there from hurting innocent others. Taking the law into his own hands because the police can't and won't -- in some stories are corrupt tot he hilt -- in Gotham doesn't make him insane to me, just a hero. So, one individual's endeavors in this world to do what he/she believes in makes him/her one man's hero, and another man's lunatic.

But no, Batman is not, simply by your description, clinically insane.

Drazar:


We can debate this really, but i'm sure we can agree that Batman is his salvation and his determination on his life.

The "Batman" part of him, or that symbol he has decided to become, has had to become his everything, sure. Without that total commitment, his soul would be tormented from thinking he didn't do all that he could to help others. He chose to do this and knew it would take everything from him. Again, it makes him a true hero to me :) And if by salvation you mean that only through doing this will he have hope to find peace within himself, then yes, I totally agree.

Old_BenKenobi
30th Nov 2009, 00:09
Well being labelled insane isn't really a medical term, it's a legal term. So if Bruce Wayne was captured, if he was put on trial for his crimes (and they are crimes), would he be found insane?

...

I think that would be a very interesting story, actually. Someone get to it!

But anyway, is Batman insane? I don't know if he's legally insane, but I do think he's pretty damn screwy in the head and has some mental problems (both from his parent's murder and his subsequent experiences as Batman), including issues with grief, anger, guilt and identity (he refers to himself as Batman in his thoughts, not Bruce....). He could most certainly use a little therapy and medication. Hero or not (I think he's a great hero, for the record) the guy has some major problems.

Drazar
30th Nov 2009, 00:12
Lets not forget taking 3 children as his sidekick, one getting himself killed because Bruce decided that instead of taking Jason Todd to therapy and a child foster home, he just made him fight crime.

Old_BenKenobi
30th Nov 2009, 00:15
Indeed. Child endangerment charges aside, that is some seriously messed up thinking.

Drazar
30th Nov 2009, 00:42
Not to mention the money he uses to pay for his monthly bills for the Batcave could be used for saving Africa's children for example, but Batman only cares about Gotham. (Well yeah he does care about the earth globally when a bigger thread comes, but his main agenda is gotham)

batfan08
30th Nov 2009, 01:11
Lets not forget taking 3 children as his sidekick, one getting himself killed because Bruce decided that instead of taking Jason Todd to therapy and a child foster home, he just made him fight crime.

According to the $14 Million donation to the Gotham City Home for Wayward Boys,Jason was of age. ;)

Old_BenKenobi
30th Nov 2009, 01:59
Bruce could arguably do greater good in Gotham with his money in political ways than by beating the snot out of criminals. The odds of him actually finding and stopping a mugging are much slimmer than portrayed in such a huge city, even one as rotten as Gotham. If he used his money to help the police weed out the corruption, hire more cops and train them to be better at their jobs he could make a world of difference.

But then again, if he went too far in that territory and amplified the surveilence and police presence too much it could border on fascism (like his cell-phone sonar thing in TDK).

There really is a lot of room to play with Batman's mind, and a lot of scenarios outside of the standard superhero thing.

batfan08
30th Nov 2009, 02:09
Bruce could arguably do greater good in Gotham with his money in political ways than by beating the snot out of criminals. The odds of him actually finding and stopping a mugging are much slimmer than portrayed in such a huge city, even one as rotten as Gotham. If he used his money to help the police weed out the corruption, hire more cops and train them to be better at their jobs he could make a world of difference.

But then again, if he went too far in that territory and amplified the surveilence and police presence too much it could border on fascism (like his cell-phone sonar thing in TDK).

There really is a lot of room to play with Batman's mind, and a lot of scenarios outside of the standard superhero thing.

The thing is,money is power,and power is influence,but you seem to be talking about Adolf Batman.He doesn't want to trust the cops.Hell,he doesn't want to trust anybody.You wanna know why?'Cause he's the goddamn Batman.He's got an ego problem,simple as that.

Old_BenKenobi
30th Nov 2009, 02:15
Well the thing is, Batman wants to control people. He's already got some rather nasty thoughts in his head. The extent of which depends on the writer, obviously, but Batman regularly ignores suspect's rights and breaks every rule he can.

And I didn't say anything about trust. Being trusting is dropping your guard, and thats one thing the goddamn Batman doesn't do.

Drazar
30th Nov 2009, 03:03
But then again, if he went too far in that territory and amplified the surveilence and police presence too much it could border on fascism (like his cell-phone sonar thing in TDK).

Heh this reminds me of Kingdom Come Batman who had an army of Batrobots (the same design used in brave and bold) roaming the city. I could never understand how Oliver Queen was okay with this tho, was it a plothole or did the character change his political views? Heh i can never know.

One thing in Batman's defense i can say is Morrison interview where he talks about Gotham being a sparkling city of light. It has the best theaters, best restaraunts and crime is art there, why? Cuz it's the best city in the world and Batman hasn't failed on his mission! He also dissed the 80s/90s dirty rat-sewer gotham marking how thats what Gotham would be if Batman actually had failed on his mission to protect Gotham. ^^

batfan08
30th Nov 2009, 03:59
In other words he's saying,"Bite me,Frank.We both know I'm better."

Old_BenKenobi
30th Nov 2009, 05:43
I prefer the grimier Gotham. To say that Batman has succeeded in his mission implies to me that Batman has won and his story is over. Also, corruption, greed and evil will long outlive Bruce Wayne.

"This city is dying of rabies. Is the best I can do to wipe random flecks of foam from it's lips?"

Yeah that's a Rorschach quote, but I feel it can be applied to Gotham. Gotham is a diseased town. The best Batman can do is to keep it from sinking into absolute chaos. To make it a "sparkling city of light" would be to end Batman's mission... for now.

Drazar
30th Nov 2009, 05:49
No really think of this way: If Gotham was near into sinking to chaos, who would live there? It's a magnificent city where crime is art, and if there wasn't a Batman it would become the grim dark place, but as Batman keeps fightning the city is this sparkling light of awesomeness with the best theaters, cinemas, restaraunts and so forth. :) Why else would anyone want to live in Gotham otherwise. :D

Also i was checking some interviews and i'm pretty much daring to claim that Oberon Sexton is 100% Joker, how will you like this? That Batman's "death" caused Joker to create a new amateur detective personality as he digs the graves and hunts down Dr. Hurt in search for his "darling". :p

Old_BenKenobi
30th Nov 2009, 05:58
Not saying Gotham should be Hell on Earth, but I don't think it should be a great place either. People live in crappy places for various reasons: They're too poor to live, it's not worth the effort to leave, it's a business center with lots of work available or they're reliant on their dealer. Lots of people don't like where they live, but not many can actually leave for various reasons.

Who's Oberon Sexton?

Drazar
30th Nov 2009, 06:31
Oberon "Grave Digger" Sexton is a mysterious black hooded character who is a author for "masks of evil" and an amateur detective. He's known to be british with a scarred face and a dead wife, yet the guy covers his whole body instead just his face.

Pretty much all hints so far come that this mysterious Morrison character is none other than the Joker, which to me adds a wonderful new twist to the character. That he somewhat became a "good" character due to lack of Brucie. :rasp:

The_Hylden
30th Nov 2009, 07:03
Wow, I'll just be happy with hero Bat's :D I do think there's a lot of room for great differences in the nuances of Bruce Wayne's inner mind, but I do prefer that he not be shown to be too far gone. We all have dark places, hurt inside, that make us who we are. Without it, we wouldn't grow and change. You need the dark as much as the light, happiness in life. Too much of one is an imbalance, of course, but yeah. Captain Kirk said it best, "I don't want to lose my pain. I NEED my pain!" haha So, Batman has issues, but we all do, to some degree. We all either grow and live the best way we can from it, or we succumb to it and it does, indeed, drive us mad. Batman, to me, hasn't gone past that fine line, yet. Although, writers have tossed everything but the kitchen sink at him, lol. And, as far as taking children under his wing and making them crimefighters, regardless of the social faux pas this would be in real life, I think all but maybe Todd would agree they are, in the end, better men for it. Well, maybe I am going too far with that one. I'd have to read more on the long, long history of each to come to any conclusion there... I'd much more prefer a world where I grew up with a hard mentor that taught me how to clean up crime, then some regular ol' boring life, hehe. it's how it was done in the olden days and humanity got along just about the same as it does now, where that's not a good thing anymore. We still have crime, worse perhaps now, still have poverty, still have war. So, who's to say who's going too far in the end??

Old_BenKenobi
30th Nov 2009, 07:12
We all have our dark places yeah, but none of us are dressing up in tights and leaping across roof-tops, are we? I mean, if the newspapers started carrying reports of a man in tights and a cape stalking the night beating up criminals, what would the immediate reaction of most people be? "He's crazy!"

I do prefer a not-so insane Bats though. Frank Miller's too far IMO, at least in All-Star Batman and Robin.

If Batman was in a single, definite series with a finite ending, then I'd like to see more progression in terms of character, including him going into that dark place.

Even in the regular continuity is swings between "I'm dark, grim and better off alone" and "I need the people around me for support." He kinda flips back and forth across that line.

Drazar
30th Nov 2009, 11:45
Benkenobi have you read Batman: The Cult?

Old_BenKenobi
30th Nov 2009, 13:26
No sir.

batfan08
30th Nov 2009, 15:01
I think they should have Batman & The Spectre Vs. The Seven Deadly Sins.In which he vanquishes corruption and evil.

Drazar
1st Dec 2009, 02:07
No sir.

Haha you should. If you think miller's Batman is extreme you haven't seen this! Batman eats civillians' food (because crime fightning is hungry business) and whatnot. It's so extreme yet writing quality is good its quite awesome as a comedy to be honest. Jason Todd is very well written in it aswell, and pretty badass too lol.